Welcome to an insightful episode of The Last 10%! Today, host Dallas Burnett engages in a fascinating conversation with Dan Chiparkoff, CEO of Reinvention Labs and a seasoned leader in tech giants like Google, McKinsey, and Atlassian. Dan shares his journey from an aspiring architect to a tech innovator, detailing his experiences with early computer-aided design and highlighting the importance of reinvention in technology and teamwork. The discussion dives deep into AI's current hype cycle, practical advice for leveraging AI in everyday tasks, and the significance of autonomy and experimentation in fostering innovation. With actionable insights and engaging stories, this episode is a treasure trove for leaders, coaches, and anyone looking to harness the power of the last 10% to achieve success. Tune in to learn how to unlock your team's potential and navigate the ever-evolving landscape of technology.

Connect with Dan: https://danchuparkoff.com/

On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuparkoff

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Hey everybody.

We're talking to Dan Chiparkoff today.

What an amazing guy.

He is the CEO of Reinvention Labs.

He's been a leader at Google, McKinsey, Atlassian, and has some incredible

insights on how we can reinvent the ways our team work to achieve success.

He's a great new friend of mine.

You don't want to miss this incredible conversation.

Welcome to the last 10%.

Your host, Dallas Burnett, dives into incredible conversations that will

inspire you to finish well finish strong, listen as guests share their journeys and

valuable advice on living in the last 10%.

If you are a leader, a coach, a business owner, or someone looking to level up.

You are in the right place.

Remember you can give 90 percent effort and make it a long way, but it's finding

out how to unlock the last 10 percent that makes all the difference in your

life, your relationships, your work.

Now here's Dallas.

Welcome.

Welcome.

Welcome.

I.

Am Dallas Burnett sitting in my 1905 Koch brothers barber chair in Thrive Studios.

But more importantly, we have a great guest today.

He is a sought after keynote speaker AI and the future of innovation.

I'm so excited.

Welcome to the show, Dan.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Man, thank you so much for having me.

I'm really looking forward to the conversation today.

We're going to dig into some cool stuff.

It's an exciting time to be in technology and I'm glad to be

like, right there on the edge and I can't wait to share some stories

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh, I can't wait either.

This is so good.

your experience at Google McKinsey and let's, you've just had such a

background in technology and we've had some talk on the show about AI, but

today we're really going to get into the weeds on some, how we use things.

I'm just so excited.

We were talking about before the show and I was like, this is so awesome.

We got to hit record.

So tell everybody.

How did you get started in, in, in technology?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: yeah, I'll go all the way back

to my senior year in high school.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: I was, intending to be an architect.

That's what I wanted to be when I grew up.

So I got an internship at an architecture firm.

It's the year 1987 and I'm a kid.

I'm wandering around, like learning from all these draftsmen,

architects, engineers everywhere.

And most of them were sitting at those big old drafting tables.

the

ones that are at an angle and they're got drawing and ink

and race and stuff all over.

Um, And then there was one guy in the corner that had this computer and

he was doing designs on a computer

and nobody else was there was like 50 people and one

and so, you know, I spent a couple days with each architect in the office

and one of those, segments was with this guy and, he showed me auto cad.

It was, I think, revision.

Revision 7, I think, came out right then and that

was the first one that had 3D pictures.

Everything up to there was just plans,

right?

And so you could build a building and then look at it from the top or

the side or the front or the back.

You could just build it one time and look at it from every direction.

And I just knew, Man, that's so cool.

That's going to completely change how architecture is done.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Right.

And half the people in that office were like that, that thing can't do my job.

I've been drafting for 35 years.

Like the stuff that comes out of that.

It looks like it was made by a cartoon.

Um, cause it was early in its life

and it was using funky high contrast colors.

And so everything looked like it was done with a highlighter.

There were lots of.

Lots of things that weren't yet ready, but, but I knew that technology

was going to change that industry.

And I changed my mind.

I stopped doing architecture and realized I want to figure out computers.

Cause that's going to change every industry, not just architecture.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: So you really

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, it

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: early in life.

You were, it was just more or less, you stumbled into this internship and

it was like, oh my gosh, this is it.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: changed everything for me.

I came from a really humble background.

Like we had no stuff.

I couldn't have, I might've been interested in computers, but I

couldn't buy one, so I had no idea.

Um, and I just stumbled into that architecture office one day.

And, this guy, his name was Mr.

Pak, P A K.

And he, he showed me how to work it and it changed my life.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: That's so awesome.

that's cool way to get into tech and what a great time.

If you're coming into tech in like the late eighties right

then, like mid to late eighties.

you were on the front end of.

Really this massive expansion and growth in that whole industry.

Did you have an idea at that time after you, obviously after your internship,

did you have any idea of big and how massive this industry was going to go?

once you were involved in the industry or did, is it just been an amazing,

one amazing thing after another?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: it's yes to both sides of that.

yes, I knew it was amazing.

Like I I could draw, I could draw 20 copies of plans from different angles

way faster than the other architects.

And I brand new at this.

I was 17 years old, right?

So I knew that it was going to unlock amazing human productivity, like

from my very first bit of exposure.

But then also every day, man, I'm surprised at what new stuff there is.

It's like just an unprecedented, growth.

There's more new stuff every day than

all the other days of human civilization prior.

And that's that's just mind boggling.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: It's mind boggling.

Let's talk about that a little bit, because you've made comments and we've

talked before the show about this term called hype cycles, and you've used that,

I will, I would love for you to talk about what a hype cycle is so that our listeners

will be able to understand it and then how you've seen that go in technology,

how you've moved through those.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

Yeah.

so first of all, anytime we get some new big technology, or new big things like the

first type cycle was tulips in Holland.

I won't go into that story, but it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be

tech.

anytime you get something new, the first one for me was PCs.

I started working at a real company in 1992.

So after the

architecture high school thing, real company in 1992, we don't have PCs yet.

1993, we're like, Hey, everybody's starting to use computers.

Should we get a bunch?

we

have 3000 employees.

That sounds like it's gonna cost us $20 million.

Where are we gonna get $20 million?

Is it worth it?

Is it not worth it?

If we don't do it now, are we gonna be behind?

That's what a hype cycle is.

You're like, to hear everyone's doing this new thing.

But you're not sure when's the right time to dump, jump in.

Should we wait for the dust to settle?

Should we dive in right now with everything we got?

Are we already late?

Is it way too early?

That's hype.

when you're hearing on the internet, the AI before the internet, you're

hearing, the newspaper or whatever about this brand new thing that everyone

needs to try, that can be scary for

people.

And there's no right answers because no one knows the answers yet.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: true.

So true.

I graduated in 2001, which

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Right.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: bust and we're in recession and there's

the job market is just completely trash.

we're coming out and it's what is this?

Like we were all, everybody's all hyped up.

I had a friend of mine in school, his sophomore year, he

creates this website and he.

It was something about high school.

Find your high school classmates.

it was something that would have been like a side part of Facebook.

Like it wouldn't have been hardly a section of Facebook now.

And it was like a whole website of finding your old classmates.

He sold that to a group of investors in like his sophomore

year for a million dollars.

seriously, I don't even know.

it was such a garbage.

Thing, but he sold it for a million dollars and he literally

walks out of school quits.

And it's I'm me, we're going and selling the Caribbean, and he's

done and we're all sitting around looking like what in the world.

That didn't end well for him later.

He did, he made some bad decisions when he tried to redo that again.

I remember that hype cycle, the negative more, even in the positive, we come out

and there's the job market's just trash.

If someone's listening to this going, okay.

I'm hearing all this about AI right now.

It seems like it's moving at warp speed and I'm moving it like a snail's pace,

cause I don't even know what I don't know.

How would you advise a company or even an individual.

how to navigate this?

Cause we're in a hype cycle now.

Is there a strategy?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

Yeah.

the good news is I'm putting that strategy in a brand new book

and

it's called innovation machine.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Okay,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: It's not out yet.

We're still like putting the finishing touches on it.

A couple more months.

You'll be able to get the book and read more about it.

But,

um, yeah.

I I have, I've been on both sides of, hype, boom and hype bust.

and one of the things I noticed in all of these cases, so AI is the seventh hype

cycle that I have experienced, right?

So we

started with PCs, then we got the internet, then we got mobile.

Then we got cloud, then we got big data, then we got remote

teams, then we have UI, right?

And all of these things are things that will dramatically change the way we work.

you get one of these big new things about once every five years.

and so you essentially have five years to figure out.

figure this new thing out by then you're expected to do it and one of the things

that hurts people as they dive in too quickly or hurts people as they don't

dive in quickly enough is that they treat this new thing like it was a piñata.

There's this new piñata and it's hanging in front of us and it says AI on the

side and we've heard there's all kinds of cool stuff inside but we're not

sure what's in there so we're just whacking at it with a stick blindfold.

That's

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: that's very true,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: It's hard to navigate as to

figure out like what should we do?

What shouldn't we do when

you're not sure what's inside yet?

So what I hope people do is crack open the pinata, right?

I don't even actually want you to say the words AI anymore.

I want you to understand if you're doing chat based search

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: okay,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: chat based customer service or Stock

photo image generation some scientific protein folding thing, right?

All those

are completely different from each other and they'll come

at different times, right?

And so I help people break AI down to understand like what are the specific

things it can really do right now?

And which ones should you try?

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: that's so less, I just feel

like that's so less ethereal.

Like you're actually landing the plane.

Some people are like, it's the end of the world.

And other people are like, we've got to try everything.

They've got new tools out.

And probably some things that they don't need to be trying because

it's either a waste of time or they're just skimming their data,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, yeah, right, right,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: actors or whatever.

And but I love how you've taken it and said, the applications.

Here's the applications that it's doing right now.

And let's refer to it as that, and not this just general bucket, a pinata of AI.

And, and then let's parse out some of the things that might

be able to do in the future, but it's not really suited for today.

but What are some things right now that you feel like AI does very

well that teams could be utilizing?

And integrating into their workflows.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

Yeah.

So immediately, I think people should be doing two things.

the first is even if you don't have chat GPT or one of the other ones,

we can talk about the options later.

Even if you don't have those things at work at home, play around with

them a little bit, go into chat GPT one night and look in your fridge

and say to chat GPT, Hey, I have chicken and a red pepper and a tomato.

What should I cook for dinner?

And it will give you an answer and you don't have to care about like

privacy or customer data leaks or

any of that stuff because who cares what's in your fridge,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Right.

Yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Just play around with it and you'll

start to understand what is it good at?

How

much information do you have to give it to get a good answer at?

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: That's an experiment that most

people should be trying right now because it's Virtually free, right?

And it gives you amazing insight so that when you're ready to implement it at work,

you have some basis of experience, right?

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I love that.

I think that's great.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: the 2nd thing I think people should

be doing right now is using it for.

Meeting notes, regardless of whether you're using zoom or meet or teams

or WebEx, you probably have an AI note taker built into that tool now.

And if it's not there, there are third party ones.

I use a tool called otter.

It's available

at otter.

ai and it will listen to the meeting, record it.

Summarize it, keep track of the action items, and give you a discussion

outline for every conversation.

People are spending a lot of time at work talking to their colleagues, and most

of that information is just lost into

the air, right?

You have the same conversation over and over again, you

forget exactly how you said it,

um, AI makes that go away.

It makes our conversations dramatically more efficient.

and so that's something people could do right now that will make their work week

five, 10, 15 percent more efficient.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I think that's so true.

I think there's so much productivity that's lost, but I think that in addition

to the productivity loss, I think when you talk about teams, if you're

leading a team, one of the ways that you can help your team members engage

and follow you and trust you more is by taking action on something they say.

Because by taking action on it, you're demonstrating that you actually

listened and heard what they said, processed it, and then moved on it.

And to your point, how much of that is lost where they might say a

side comment and you may say, yeah, we should look at that and then,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: You forget.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: It's gone because the

tyranny of the urgent, right.

And we're off and moving, everybody's moving fast and breaking things.

and, you're three months down the road and they said, well,

you remember what I told you?

I brought that up.

no matter what AI that you're using it's just too easy too not to use.

A, you're going to remember, you're going to have a summary of it.

You're not having to type it.

You're not having to go through it and come through and summarize it.

But B, you're able to respond and act on things so much easier

and be reminded on those things.

I think that's

really good.

That's really good.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: those are two things that I think

people should start experimenting with.

See how good they are.

Familiarize yourself with it because it's, you know, AI really

virtually fundamentally is an information management tool

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yes.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: you know, the information management

looks like a lot of things, but one of the ways it looks is us talking to each

other or sending emails back and forth or sending chat messages in Slack or Teams.

You know, AI can help start organizing that conversation a

little bit more.

Processing

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I'm excited about that.

I think that's one of the things that AI will do better is that we've got, we're

we've gotten so much more efficient at creating data, we're so not as efficient

at using all the data that we have.

Yeah, I feel like AI is really going to help.

The average, I mean, maybe large corporations with massive it budgets

can big data, they can do that.

But really being able to have someone on the ground floor, be able to use

that and take advantage of that.

I think it's really, I think that's where AI can do it.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: seems oh, those big companies, they

should be able to do that stuff.

Like I, you know, McKinsey had 45, 000 people or something like that.

When I worked there, Google had like 180, 000 people.

They all

still have the exact same problems,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Really?

Oh,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: All those people, they just have

exponentially more people trying to disagree with each other.

And

so, you

know, you still have this compounded conversation problem.

All of the threads on all the different projects, you it's, the big companies

have some of the same struggles that the

small company,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah.

It's still essentially if you've got competing priorities, competing

resources, competing time, the whole deal.

We've talked to the PR we've talked about the person who's just getting started.

We're trying to test out.

Okay.

Go to the fridge and see what chat GB will tell you to make for supper.

let's move it up a step and say, okay.

I'm someone who maybe I've experimented with chat, GBT, with

a, language model, maybe Claude or,

some other ones, do you have any advice for someone who's really

trying to say maybe maximize their time spent on, you know,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: right.

Yeah.

for just in case there are any listeners that don't know what

prompt engineering refers to, right.

What we mean there is I can go into chat GPT and I could say, Hey, chat

GPT, I have chicken and a tomato and a red pepper, which I make for

dinner, or I could say, Hey, chat GPT.

I'm the father of six and I am Hispanic and I like spicy food.

And I have a chicken, and a tomato, and some cumin, and five other spices,

and, right, that's prompt engineering.

The

more information you put in there, the more your information will

look like you expect it to, coming

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Hmm.

Hmm.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Um, so there's a debate like you could

get really great at prompt engineering and write great prompts that pull exactly

the right picture out or exactly the right answer story or whatever you're trying to

get, um, and I will keep getting better.

But what I won't do is know what's in your head.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Mm,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: No matter how much better AI gets, it

still doesn't know all the things that lead to the answer being one you like.

and so prompt engineering, I think will be helpful, but instead

I tend to say, Hey, chat GPT.

Here I have a chicken and a pepper and a tomato.

Give me 15 things that I might be able to make for dinner.

And then I scan that list of 15.

I pick number eight, cause that's the closest to what was in my head.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Okay.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Right.

And

so there's a balance between getting better at prompt engineering and also

just ask for a bunch of choices and then pick, um, You know, then you can

say, I kind of like number eight, but do you have something a little tangier?

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: You're allowing it to run and

give you options and then almost filtering down those options to more,

to better versus trying to like, say exactly the right thing to get

exactly what's in your head down.

I like that.

No, I like that approach too.

I think that seems less daunting for people who are like, Well, I

don't know how to prompt engineer.

what am I supposed to do?

so that, I think that's really great.

Just ask for options and then just start narrowing down and filtering that way.

I think that's

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, I almost always ask for five

options anytime I do anything.

And sometimes, like if I'm going to get a really diverse mixture of stuff,

I'll ask for 10 and that helps a lot.

Just like on a Google search, right?

Google gives you 10 options.

On the first page and then a hundred more pages, because if

it just gave you one answer,

we wouldn't be able to navigate search.

It would be

terrible.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: It would be terrible.

That's right.

How would you, in terms of describe AI and where you feel like it's heading next?

Where do you feel like it's going?

Wow.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: of the things I'm most excited

about is, um, like I, like I said, it's best at language, right?

Managing language, words back and forth.

And one of the things that it's exceptional at, because we have

a lot of examples for it to learn from on this is translating from

one language to another language.

Right now I have a video of me saying, we live in a global world now and people

should be able to communicate in the language that's most comfortable for them.

AI makes that possible, right?

I can translate the words I just said into 50 other languages.

Instantly.

And it's my voice.

It's like I can speak to people that don't speak English.

And they can learn things.

They can like, imagine you're a kid in Africa, some country in Africa,

and you don't speak English at all, but you could use AI to read every

textbook that's ever written or watch any YouTube video or watch the new

movie that just came out, right?

AI seamless.

AI language translation is really close.

right now you and I are talking to each other, right?

And we're both speaking English.

But we wouldn't have to be.

Like, I don't really hear you.

I hear my computer telling me what you said.

And if we had a toggle on our computer that just flipped the language

Just whatever language we preferred, language will become a preference.

That's gonna do really interesting things in the world of global collaboration.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: It's going to be incredible.

that's the possibilities on that and education and communication are just,

that's, that's incredible.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: it, will democratize access to

information in the world, where right a bias toward, toward English, right?

Globally.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah, that's amazing.

Well, I would love to talk a little bit about, cause we've got a lot of

listeners that are, that own companies or are leading teams in companies.

You've had an experience with one of the largest companies on the planet.

Definitely one of the largest tech companies on the planet.

Been there for a while, teams.

What do you feel google in terms of, the culture at Google, what do

you feel like they got right that you've experienced in your time there?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

so Google, it was a wonderful company.

I quit just for everyone's, information.

I quit Google last September 1st to focus full time on helping

people through this AI transition.

So now I just speak, help people do that, whatever.

but I was at Google for three and a half years and, and it

was a wonderful experience.

One of the things I think that they did spectacularly.

Is they gave us the freedom to try some experiments.

They, some people will have heard Google has something called 20 percent time.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Okay.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: And it's not used by everybody.

It's never actually really 20%.

It's, whatever.

There's lots of, stuff.

Some people will say it doesn't even exist at all.

It depends on your job, your boss, your own accountability.

What that meant for me was some amount of my week.

I was able to do whatever I wanted.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Wow.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: And what that meant was for me, it was,

I could work with a couple of other engineers and we could start working

on building a new automation thing that might change how our customers work.

It might make dramatic improvements in customer value, in our product,

in our own lives, all those things.

What I didn't have to do was wait for permission.

And budgeting and like VP approval to, I could spend 10 percent like every

Friday afternoon, me and a couple other people, we got together in a conference

room or on zoom cause it was COVID.

and

we just worked through a problem.

And if we got somewhere great with it.

Then we would prioritize it on our VP approval list, right?

And then we already knew what would work and what would be hard.

And we could say, look, if we had these two people for the next, for

the next nine months, we could build a whole new version of this thing.

And that would be amazing.

So that was, have a little bit of autonomy.

That's I think,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh, the autonomy is great.

And I think too, I love that because, and I've read about their study,

their big time study on, what they did, and that was part of that

20 percent time came out of that.

And I think that one of the cool things about that, not only is the

employee feel like they are, they have autonomy to do what they find

interesting, but also sometimes.

could pitch an idea and maybe if you're a great pitch artist,

then you could get that idea.

but some people are more visual and I've had so many people I've worked with.

They're like, nah, I don't think I'm interested.

And then if I had hopefully spent already some time on it, you could

turn it around and say, but see, look, this is what I'm talking about.

And they'd be like, I want to do that.

That's totally what, and so that 20 percent time gives you a tummy, but

it also gives you time to produce something where you could say,

look, see, this is how it works.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: even if you aren't able to produce

something like that, imagine none of that exists and you're at, some organization

and you want to do this new thing, but you need to go to your VP or whoever, is

the decider in the conversation, you need to go to them and say, I would really

like to be able to do this new AI thing.

And they say, convince me.

And you're like, I can't convince you yet.

Cause I haven't started, right?

anything about it yet.

I'm

asking you for permission to investigate,

right?

And you can't expect people to convince you about stuff that you

didn't let them investigate yet.

And two things put you in a catch 22 where organizations say no, until

you can prove to me that this will have ROI, I'm not going to let you.

Spend any time on it.

That's never going to work.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: It doesn't work.

Yeah, it doesn't work.

You just lose out on a lot of innovation and possibilities.

And I think, and I don't, obviously some companies, I'm sure some of the

listeners are like, there's no way they would let me have 20 percent

or there's no way I could let my employees have 20 percent every time.

And I don't think that's the point.

I think the point is if you're listing, the point is.

Can you, what can you do in your organization to increase, autonomy,

and input from everybody in the organization that might mean you don't

have everybody getting 20%, but maybe you have a hackathon day where you

have a problem and you turn it over to a group and say, Hey, you guys,

you solve this problem or some other method, but it just being intentional

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: yeah, a hundred percent agree.

I actually, since you mentioned hackathons, it's a great segue

into the Atlassian hackathon story.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: oh yeah.

Yeah, that's right.

Let's talk a little bit about that.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: yeah.

so I worked at a company called Atlassian, for the software developers out there,

they'll all know JIRA and Confluence.

And,

uh, for the non software engineers, you probably heard of Trello.

So they, they acquired Trello and, they

make

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: know that.

Okay.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: so they, Atlassian was

a pretty cool company.

The founders were Australian and, I started there in 2012, worked there

for three and a half years as well.

And they had some very interesting, things.

they respected people and their time.

They hired great people and they let them, have some autonomy,

just like you and I are talking about, but they also were like 20%.

That's a lot.

That's, a

fifth of our week.

that's crazy.

We're trying to grow.

We already don't have enough time to do the things we need to do.

but they did something once a quarter, which They called FedEx days.

because it absolutely had to be delivered overnight.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: eventually eventually they started

getting blog posts and articles about these things and FedEx, they decided

to let FedEx have their own trademark.

So they changed the name of it to ship it days.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Okay.

Ship it days instead of FedEx.

That's much more legally sound.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: but ship it days, it's

a 24 hour hackathon,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Okay.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: everybody in the organization,

like a lot of companies do hackathons with their engineers,

but like people in HR, like they don't hack things, the CEO is not hacking,

Atlassian wanted everybody to participate.

And once a quarter, we would You got 24 hours.

It started at 10 a.

m.

and it finished at 10 a.

m.

the next morning.

A lot of the time we worked all night long.

we would assemble in groups of, three or four or five people and we

would work on a project together.

And there weren't really any rules.

if we were spending some money, there was like a cap, like we could spend

500 bucks or something like that.

But

like, you know, we can buy a new tool that costs 85,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: But we could try a new tool.

We could download the demo version and set

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Right.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: how it works and demo it the next

morning to the, to the rest of the team and say like, if we had Slack,

this is what it would be like, and I

think it would be cool and you could do that.

Um, we had one team, in 2013 or 14, one of the teams, they come into work

10 o'clock on the hack, hackathon day.

And they, and they cut a hole in the wall.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh my goodness.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: room on the other side, right?

They cut a hole in the wall so they can build a door here.

Then they drywall, they take the actual door off and drywall it over, paint it.

So you couldn't even tell the old door was just completely gone.

Then they made a bookshelf that had a secret door behind it.

And then inside they made like a lounge, a little relaxation lounge.

And they did that in one night.

it was called the stash bar, like mustache, also cause

it was stashed away and,

um, and that just like stimulated creativity in a way

that was really, really cool.

if you let your people think like that on one day, then they start thinking

like that on all the other days.

And it's

just a way of unleashing your team for small bursts of creativity.

It's, it

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I that.

I love that.

And so were you a part of that team or did you watch that happen?

I, it

like you were a little bit of a part of that.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: I was not, that is my favorite example

to use, but that year I worked on a different thing where we were

installing our competitor's product.

We

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh, wow.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: get our actual, the product

that we were competing with.

We wanted to see what it was good at that we weren't good

at and, and stuff like that.

So,

So I did a different

thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: but you got to experience the, the

stash barn and all its glory after the,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

But yeah, it was

a great.

experience.

You know, people did all kinds of things like, somebody in facilities

management, like swapped out all the light bulbs in the conference

rooms to cool the temperature in the rooms a little bit because they put

led bulbs,

um, you know,

everything is open for

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Anything's open.

Okay.

I love that.

I love that.

That's a really cool way to approach autonomy and also innovation.

And so I think that's a good segue as well.

You talk a lot about reinvention and kind of seizing opportunities for that.

And.

that I think is a great principle.

Do you have a great example?

Do you have other examples or principles, or I would love to take our, we've talked

and got in the weeds on AI, but I'd love to get more of your information on the, on

more of the kind of the thought level at reinventing and how teams can manage that.

Cause I feel like we're in this space where everybody's

on the precipice of this.

Something, we know it's something.

But we don't know what exactly yet.

It's we're, the pinata is about to break, like what's coming out, you know?

And so let's talk a little bit about that.

I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, for sure.

I like the word reinvent a lot.

First of all, your audio listeners can't see, but it actually

says reinvent on my shirt.

Um,

It says reinvent every day.

I have 18 of these things.

That's

all, it's all I wear.

And

that's, it's to remind me and the people around me that you have to continuously

reinvent the way you do things

because the world around you is changing all the time.

So

if you sort of get stuck in your rhythm, Doing work the way you've

been doing work forever, but now we have a completely different world.

That old way of working isn't going to work anymore.

Um, I also like the word reinvent because it's almost change, but reinvent is

usually like a thing that you do to

yourself, right?

Other people can Try to change you or they could push changes at

you or pile them on top of you.

And, but it's hard for somebody else to reinvent you, right?

Reinvention is something that you have to choose to embrace.

And so those are some of my like core principles.

when I first started to stumble into the word reinvent, I started

to think about what my day was like a typical Monday, I drive to work,

40 minute commute or whatever it is.

And I get to work and I look at some messages.

Right.

Read some messages from my coworkers that came in that I didn't read yet.

I send some out.

I look at my calendar and it's, I got seven meetings.

So I go to those meetings and I try to take a bunch of notes and

I write them on sticky notes.

And, and then the end of the day comes, I hardly did any work, right?

I sent the email, I talked to people, I made more to do's on post it

notes, but I didn't do any of them.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Right, right.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Um, and.

When I started like mapping that day out, I started to realize

actually, wait, that's what my day looked like in 1992 when I first

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: right?

Now the messages messages were, hold up, messages.

I don't know if your, audio listeners won't get this, but like back then

messages didn't come in email.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: ha ha

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: They

came in one of these office envelopes, right?

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: yes, the office

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: had somebody's name line,

cross out the old name.

Uh, and.

Our calendar wasn't on the computer either as in one of these,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yes.

Ah, the daily planner.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: daily planner, right?

But our day is the same.

Now

we still show up on Monday and we drive to work and we send a bunch of

messages and we read some messages and then we sit in meetings for seven

hours and we write a bunch of tasks

on post it notes, all of these things have changed in the last 32

years, but our day looks the same.

So I encourage people to crack open that day and figure out like, how

did you really spend your time?

Is there anything in there that we could make go away?

And that's the core principle of reinvention and what I talk about

in the Innovation Machine book.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: uh, that sounds, that sounds good.

Oh, that's going to be a good read.

That's going to be a good read.

So there's several things you said there that just, that resonates so much with me.

Number one, I am a big fan of reinvention.

In fact, there's a picture that I take whenever I have an office somewhere,

if I'm working in a company and I hang it on the wall and used to, back, I

don't know if it was in the nineties, I guess it was in the nineties.

You remember those motivational posters that have border and

it's like courage and it'd have a

lion and be like, you can do anything.

It has this, Well, I'm kind of a little bit of sarcastic.

I've got a little streak of sarcasm in me.

And so there was a website, I think it was called demotivational.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: yeah.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: had the antithesis.

Have you seen this?

They'd have the antithesis of these posters and it

would be the exact opposite.

So I went on there and I love that.

And so I bought one a lot.

I mean, this was years ago.

It's probably been 15 years ago and I it.

And it says.

it says tradition and it's got a picture of the running of the bulls.

And this bull is bearing down on this guy.

That's like running for his life through the streets.

And it says, just because we've always done it this way, doesn't

mean it's not incredibly stupid.

I just, when I saw that, I was like, I love that.

That is so me because when we look at things in our work and on our teams,

even in our own schedule, we have a tendency to see it in everywhere else.

Like in the organization that we're with, like this company, they do this,

look at this and this, and we'll point out all these things, but it's to your

point, it's but when you look at your day, why don't you crack that open?

Cause there's some things that you're probably doing.

That's also, what are you doing?

And so I love that.

I think that, resonates a lot.

Yeah.

I think the reinvent, it has to come from you.

And I think that it's so intentional.

what you're saying is you have to be intentional and want to go somewhere new.

It reminds me of that book title.

What got you here?

Won't get you there or something like that.

Right.

And, and so you've got to do something different.

And when I think of reinventing, it's not saying we're going to Change necessarily

who you are or the fundamentals, the core.

It's saying that we're going to, we're going to do things differently or in

a different way to get a different result or a better result or more

in alignment of where we want to go.

I just think that's a powerful thing for leaders, especially because the

world is always changing, and it is, then if we're not changing, Inside

of that in some form or fashion

something's got to give right,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: exactly.

imagine that, innovation is like a gear, a cog in a machine, right?

And it's the cog in the center.

And around that, there's these other gears.

And one of those gears is learn new stuff.

One of them is try experiments.

One share information more efficiently.

One of them is make decisions faster, better.

One of technified manual work.

If you turn those five gears on the outside, the innovation

gear turns in the middle.

You just do innovation,

right?

Innovation.

Is a noun and although we use the word, we use the word innovate

like it's a verb, but if I said, Hey, what are you doing Dallas?

And you said, I'm sitting over here innovating, making a joke, right?

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Innovation is the thing that

results from the other stuff you do.

very specific stuff, trying

things, experimenting, learning, sharing, deciding,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: think that is advice, and we

talk a lot about as it relates.

We had a book come out, lift back in the fall, and.

and if you want to innovate, it's turning those gears on routine that

it's not the, it may not be the cool, sexy, cool kids on the block kind of

activities, but it's turning those outside gears that actually produce.

Do that innovation that you're talking about and the more routines that you

can change that constantly turn those gears, the more productivity and

innovation you get, I'm thinking as simple as it goes back to that day.

What you said, one of the things I love, it's taken me years to get it

right, but I love my morning routine.

I just, I have a great morning routine for me.

And it just, by the time when I start, I'm like, let's go, you know, but

the problem is my morning routine.

Sometimes I didn't do it.

I didn't do it.

Well, I would miss something or I would have to sleep in.

Cause I'm not a morning person, which is another reason I

need a good morning routine.

I'm a night guy.

So what I realized was was at the really the whim of my night

routine, which was terrible.

It was not a good routine.

So, you know, when you talk about reinventing, I'm

looking at that on my own.

Like how do I.

How do I do something as simple as design my nights so that I can get

the morning that I want and it's just backing up and it's I've got to reinvent.

I've got to reinvent my night.

That's nothing to do with work.

And yet it does, because I get my morning routine, I show

up for the day a lot better.

And if I show up better, we get more done.

And so.

I love, I

love your, I love your steps there.

And I think that as it, relates to, reinvention, I think those are critical.

what is something that I guess is in those steps that has, you've

seen as a challenge, what's one of the things that you've seen people

maybe miss the most in those steps?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: think the, , for, for a long time,

like since the very beginning, I always wanted to do more things.

Like I wanted to learn more stuff that I didn't learn yet.

I wanted to try some prototypes that I didn't have the resources to build.

I wanted to get a new tool that we couldn't afford yet.

Um, and those are three of those gears on the outside, right?

Learn, try, technify.

the problem is.

There's pushback, organizational pushback from doing those things because

those things cost time and time again.

sometimes also cost money.

And so in order to justify those things, you also have to do some things that

make some of the time go away, right?

That you're already spending, like earlier, you said a 20 percent time,

that seems like a humongous investment.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Right.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: right.

And that's a massive amount, a massive amount of time.

It's every week, all my people, like that's millions of dollars,

even if you're Um, but if you start looking at things like we were talking

about earlier, AI note taking that makes meetings more, more efficient, like

maybe some people don't even need to go to the meetings anymore because they can

just look at the summary between the three primary stakeholders.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yes.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Now, all of a sudden you had what

used to be 26 hours of time a week.

average spent in email and chat and meetings, right?

That's the average according to McKinsey and Microsoft, both of them aligned.

So if we make 26 hours, 10 percent more efficient, then you have 2.

6 hours free that you didn't have before.

And you can spend that time learning or building some new prototype

that you get that time back.

And so as, as people start to look at the balance between I

want to do these new things.

But we don't have time.

What are we doing that I could make go away?

And then it starts to become a lot easier to create your own space

and your own life to do the new things that you can't do right now.

Yeah,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I think that is another exciting reason,

to , feel the hype on some AI So if we can use AI to gain some efficiencies,

then we turn around and we invest those efficiencies in not only innovation,

like what you're talking about, but giving our employees autonomy.

we just give them some, their productivity, if they have higher

engagement will go up because companies that have engaged employees

that are 21 percent more profitable.

So it's like this virtue cycle you can invest in long terms.

It's

cool.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, you get on top of the fact that

if you have autonomy, then your people don't have to ask per permission every

single time and that's more meeting.

Right?

So autonomy also makes meetings go away.

the, these things all build on each other and that's why it's a single machine.

And if you just turn each of the cogs a little bit, you get that cog

in the middle spinning really fast.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I think what you've said is fantastic.

And think one thing that I would say is an action item for our listeners

is, Are you taking stock of your day and how you're spending your time?

And if you are spending your time doing some repetitive tasks, every single day,

if that, if you can just knock off 5 percent of that every day, Oh my God.

Goodness, that how much time you just got back in your week.

And so are you, how intentional are you about focusing on your activities

every day and what could we automate?

What could we delegate?

what could we just cut out?

I think that's really good advice that you've given.

I think that's a solid advice.

It's just incredible.

That's awesome.

So good,

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Totally.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: man.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Thank

you,

, dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: speaking of learning now,

you've got to, you've got to give everybody this life hack.

Cause I, we were talking a little bit before the show.

Now I, a couple episodes ago, this, we had a guest on said she

read 200 books a year and I was like, man, that's a lot of books.

I don't read that.

I read a lot, but I don't read that many.

and I also listened to a lot of audio books, probably.

Two thirds of the books, I can process it faster auditorial than I can

I'm a slow reader because I was a science major.

Everything's slow.

I've had to pull it in.

, but you, you've kind of mix it to tell, tell everybody how you.

How you read books.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

It's, so it started with, uh, so like you, I just liked audio books

better because I also, when I was reading something in school, there

was going to be a test on it later.

So I was going to read everything slow enough to make sure I remembered it

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: When I started reading fiction,

I'm still like reading it.

Like I'm like, there's going to be a test.

Like no one cares.

Harry Potter is going to right.

And so I switched to audio because it would just read whether I was

catching up or not, and it would, it forced me to learn to pay attention.

Um, and then they added that little toggle there that says, do you want 1.

25 speed?

I was like, yeah, of course.

Oh, how about one and a half?

How about two?

Could you do more?

Could you do 2.

25?

And it's just like this thing, like I'm not doing it yet.

And I have inside of me this thing, like there's this thing that I'm

not doing yet and I could be doing it and why am I not doing it?

so I just kept going higher and higher until I got to 3X speed on audio.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: That is fast.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: at first it was hard, but at first I, I

did it to books that I already read again.

Like,

like I read a book first.

Right.

And then I went back and I listened to the book again.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: that's a good idea.

Cause you can make it, I can see your logic there.

I've already read it.

I need a refresher, but I don't want to spend the same amount of time the

second time through, cause I don't need to, and I already know it.

I'm familiar with it.

So that makes sense.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah.

And with like with audible, like I had two books a month, Right.

With my audible plan.

And so I was listening more quickly than that because I have a long commute.

And so like I'm halfway through the month.

I don't have any books to read.

I might as well listen to a book I already read faster.

And

so I did that.

I got used used to three and a half or three, three X

speed, which is kind of cool.

Now I'm flying through flying through books, but then I would

always do this in the car, right?

Driving to work.

So

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: hundred percent.

Yep.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: hour long commute each way.

And then COVID happened and now I'm at my house

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Uh, yes.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: listening to audio books,

sitting in a chair and then

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: That is so awkward right now.

Yes.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: I'm getting so distracted that

I'm not listening anymore.

So I was, I was listening to a book that I just happened to

have had a physical copy of.

So I opened it up on my lap and I backed up the audio and I listened to

the book and read it at the same time.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh, Wow.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: And I was like, Whoa, that was so amazing.

Like it stimulated my senses in two different ways.

It was just incredible and now I can't go back like now every time I buy

copies of the book and it's so weird, but sometimes in an audio book, there's

like a table that they're reading or a picture they're describing and

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: you can go to the figure

like later on the website.

I'm like, I'm never going

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: You're never going back.

That's right.

Yeah.

But you get it in the book.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: It's

amazing and it's transformed the way I like consume information.

Um, it's,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Do you feel like it helps you focus

better on, because you're, because not only are you hearing it, but

you're also taking in it visually.

Do you feel like, or it feel like it helps you recall it any better?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: yeah, it's for sure does, because

I'm, um, like visually helps me.

I'm, I liked audio books because it kept me going and I

didn't keep going after reading the same paragraph.

But I'm

a visual learner,

so now I get the visual stimulation and the audio at the same time.

But what's better is.

All of my senses are busy.

So there's, there isn't a sense that's going off and getting distracted by the

cat that just walked by or anything.

Cause if you don't, if you're, if you're listening at three X speed

and your eyes aren't looking at those words, you're going to get lost quick,

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: man.

Yeah, that's amazing.

You gotta be locked in.

I think that's fascinating.

I am going to try that.

I really am because I definitely have the, Oh, something just passed by or there's

a sound across the road and I'm like, you

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: right?

Yup.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: am nowhere, there's no, tried it three, I

am a two guy, but you would think well, dude, you're a two, two X three, three.

Woo.

That is so fast.

That is so fast.

listen quick, but that's I think that I love it.

How you're, it's almost like you're just taking out your senses

so that you can't help but focus because everything is like singular

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, you're just

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: I love it.

immersed It's almost like putting earmuffs on while you're reading.

So you don't hear any sounds or anything like that.

Like in or something like that.

So I love that.

I am totally trying that totally not on three.

I might still stick with one and a half or two, but, I'm totally trying

that if you're listening to the last 10%, you have to try that as well.

We're going to do the, we're going to do the book challenge.

you have to listen to something on audio and read it.

And you have to listen to something faster than one.

You have to go to at least one, five, one, two, five.

You can't do it.

So if you're listening, you got two weeks before the next

episode to try this challenge.

definitely listen to it and, let us know how it goes.

You can, you can let us know how it goes.

that's really great.

Well, this has just been the best conversation.

Thank you for sharing all your wisdom with us.

Dan, this has been just phenomenal.

I think you've given everybody.

Some really good ideas around reinventing and a toolbox around that.

I think you've given some people really good, insights into AI and

how they should be approaching it.

And maybe their anxiety level decreased after hearing your

strategies around that, I think a lot.

So I really appreciate, yeah, really appreciate that.

We will definitely.

All right.

So two things, number one.

Tell everybody the name of your book again, where they can find

you if they need a fantastic keynote around technology.

And then, who would you like to hear on the last 10%?

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: yeah.

I'm pretty easy to find on the internet if you can spell my last name.

So I'm Dan Chu Parkoff.

and I'm There's only like 26 of us in the U S and I'm best at engine optimization.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Of course.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: connect with me on LinkedIn, or go to

my website, which is danchuparkoff.

com.

that's the best way to find me connect with me.

I'd love to start conversations that spin off from here.

accept any connection request, from people on LinkedIn.

So

that's the best way to get ahold of me and hear more about

what I'm up to in the world.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Great.

All right.

We'll put, we'll put that in the show notes.

So if you're driving right now, don't worry.

We'll have all those, addresses in the show notes.

You can check on, please let Dan know as well.

If you connect with them on LinkedIn, if you've tried the challenge, you can

say, I've listened to the last 10 percent and I've tried the book challenge.

Let him know.

I know that he'll enjoy that.

And so Dan, we always ask our guests on the last 10 percent who they would

like to hear as a guest on the last 10%.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: Yeah, there's a futurist and his

name is Mike Walsh and he, he's an amazing guy really has his pulse

on like where the world's going.

He travels all over his videos on YouTube are amazing to watch because

he's like in a new city every time.

And, he's a super interesting guy.

He has some great stories.

I'm certain of it.

I don't know him personally, but I've learned a lot from him.

I would love to listen to him on your show as well.

dallas-burnett_18_07-11-2024_181214: Okay.

All right.

Well, we're going to have to, uh, see if we can reach out to, to Mike and,

see if we can get them on the show.

That sounds like it would be an interesting episode.

Well, Dan, thank you again for being on the last 10%.

I know our listeners have had a ton of fun listening to your stories and your

content, and , when your book comes out, we'll have to have you back on the show.

dan-chuparkoff--he-him-_1_07-11-2024_171213: I'm always happy to come back.

So thanks Dallas so much.

It's been a great time for me as well.

So we'll talk soon.