Electric heating in. Gas heating out. All UK home builders can see the direction of travel.

One solution is heat pumps.

But what do you need to know, to start your heat pump journey?

Joining Chris Gaze for this episode are:

• Lizzie Willkinson from Ideal Heating
• Tim Hartwell of Miller Homes
• Jamie Bursnell from Bellway

Get all the latest hints and tips on heat pumps here.

Mentioned in this episode:

Coming soon: Future Homes Standard technical conference

Join us in Leeds on Tues 9th June, or in London on Weds 17th June, for the Future Homes Standard technical conference - a practical event for teams looking at energy assessment, heat pumps, solar panels, ventilation, and over-heating: https://www.futurehomes.org.uk/fhs-technical-conferences

Welcome to the Future Homes podcast. My name is Chris Gaze and this. Is where we look closely at the ideas, policies and practical challenges shaping how homes are being designed, built and delivered in the uk. Today.

We unpack what's changing, why it matters and what it means in practice for developers, consultants, local authorities and the wider supply chain. Our focus this time is on helping home builders who are starting on the heat pump journey.

Our guests are Lizzie Wilkinson from Ideal Heating, Tim Hartwell of Miller Homes and Jamie Bersnell from Belway. To kick this chat off, I asked Lizzie, why is there such a focus on heat pumps just now?

At the moment, UK homes actually contribute around 14% to UK emissions. So that's really quite significant.

Now there's been a lot of work done in what can be done from an infrastructure perspective to reduce carbon emissions in the uk. There's a lot of wind turbines off the coast now we've closed the coal fired power stations. Electricity and power is getting greener.

And then we have to look at what's the next step, what else needs to be looked at and that's people's homes and their vehicles, two of the huge big focus areas for government. So that's where the interest in heat pumps come from.

How can we heat our homes and our hot water with green power and electricity is going to be green in the future and heat pumps are a really efficient way of using electricity. Now this is coming and it's been driven by regulation, particularly in the new build.

So very recently we've seen the publication of the Future Homes Standard, which will come into implementation in 27, followed by a transitional arrangement and we will see really taking effect throughout 28 and 29, we think. And one of the key changes we'll see as a result of that Future Homes Standard is the requirement to use low carbon heating and hot water in homes.

And heat pumps are, for many of those properties, the obvious solution.

Okay, and at a headline level, what's the difference really between a heat pump heating system and a, and those gas boilers we all know and love?

I think if you ask some of the guys that work for me, they'll tell you, well, it's all physics. We're moving energy through pipes, regardless of what the heating appliances. But in reality there are a few key differences.

You've got the heat pump itself, which is an outdoor unit, the box with the, with the fan in on the outside of the property. So we've got to consider where that goes, the electricity supply and the siting of that unit.

The second thing is that a heat pump will always come with a cylinder for hot water. So we've been through the era of combi boilers in new build and putting them into kitchen cupboards.

We're now looking at the return of the cylinder into properties and where that's going to go and how we accommodate that system. Design is another key difference between a heat pump and a boiler. In the new build, we're already designing for fairly low temperature systems.

The current Part L requires a design temperature maximum of 55 degrees, but for a heat pump, it's really important that we design for a low temperature heating system. This might mean slightly larger radiators and larger pipe work.

And I think the other thing that's a real difference is for the homeowner, this is different for them. They're used to living with a combi boiler, probably, or at least a gas boiler. And having a heat pump is different.

How they run that heat pump optimally is probably slightly different. And there's a learning curve and an education piece there to be able to utilise that heat pump in the most optimal way.

Brilliant. That was a tour de force. Thank you very much, Jamie and Tim. I better bring in the house builders here.

How have you been approaching integrating heat pumps in your home designs and what's worked and what's not? I think I'll start with Tim, if that's okay.

The big learning for us is that our heat pumps aren't just a boiler, it's not just a boiler swap, it's a completely different system.

The part L20, 21 regs give you a pretty good fabric baseline, but you still can't just drop a heat pump into a legacy house type and expect everything to work.

So what's worked well for us is sort of going back to first design principles and space planning, making sure the house type is genuinely set up for low temperature heating.

And standardising layouts has been key as well, so that the designers and site teams weren't having to solve new problems on new plots as they work through the site. Where we probably underestimated things early was on the space and coordination plant.

Space, external units, controls and the way everything is set up on site. It all matters more now than it used to. But once we accepted that and got to grips with it, everything flows much better.

Once that initial planning is put in place, really,

Jamie, what's been the approach for you at Bellway?

Well, a lot of our house types have been designed around a gas combination boiler. So you just physically don't have the cylinder location for one.

But then setting your design principle, external unit under rear elevation, under kitchen window, for instance, giving consideration then to primary pipe work, you know, how do you get from outside to in with the, with the heat?

And probably more importantly that, that kind of cylinder location, that's been a real challenge for us on the two and three bed houses, four and five beds generally probably working on a heat only boiler or a system boiler at the moment. So they have a cylinder, they have a cylinder location. Again with a heat pump, it's more difficult.

You've got to have the cylinder, it's got to go somewhere. You've taken a bit of what would have been habitable space in turning it into, into a plant room.

The other challenge has been identifying the real necessary component parts.

So some of the work research we did with Salford University indicated that underfloor heating works really well with a low temperature flow heat pump system, but that will bring a manifold along with it. So therefore you've got to figure out where that's going to go.

Do you need extra system volume, in which case you, you need a volumizer and again, where that's going to go. And I think it's a lot more. Your cylinder cupboard has become, I think you probably agree, Tim, your cylinder cupboards become a mini plant room.

Not only can you get it in there, can, you know, can you get at it and do you need to get at it?

It's about making sure that that space is there.

Chris, at the end of the day, the customer's got to be able to use, use the house and they'll be used to having a cylinder cupboard that's got a bit of space in it. So, you know, we do try and make sure that there is a cylinder in there with all, all the kit that comes with it.

But also I think there is tall storage where the homeowner can actually store ironing boards and things like that. So, you know, we need to make sure that we're not taking up all the usable storage space as well.

Jamie, I'm really interested in this thing that you said that you did this work with Salford where you built a house in a lab and tested it and underfloor seems to be delivering. What is it about underfloor heating that seems to be an interesting option for you?

The basic principle is we're putting heat at a lower grade into lots of thermal mass. Okay, it's less responsive. But heat pumps are designed to work at a slower response speed than radiators, for instance.

So getting that heat energy into a large area with lots of thermal mass means that that heats around for a long time.

Underfloor heating then becomes more suitable for a, a slow and steady heat generation and heat emitting rather than this short cycling, which obviously suits gas boilers with radiators. We found that underfloor heating is a better, more efficient route to emitting heat with a slow and steady and a lower temperature.

And is that underfloor heating both downstairs and upstairs?

No. So it's underfloor heating on the ground floor only with radiators on the first floor.

Is that better efficiency reflected in SAP at all?

That's a good question, Tim, because the, the temperature flow is. SAP is sensitive to the emitters, but whether it's, whether it's actually reflecting in extra efficiency through the heat pump.

I'd have to go into the back numbers to, to figure that out.

Okay. And it'll be interesting, you know. So we've got the SAP assessment system by which we, we produce EPCs.

I'm just saying that just in case not everybody's familiar with SAP, but also that'll be changing over to hem, which will be a more dynamic model and you may see differences there as well.

Well, from our view, heat pumps are a gift that keeps on giving. We have a science-based target. I do our carbon footprint on use of sold products.

At the moment what I can tell you is that our gas boiler plots emit something like 1.3 tonnes of emissions per year. We scale that up for the lifespan of the building which is 60 years. So we end up with this telephone book number for our use of sold product.

When we look at heat pumps, we do that same modeling. It's 0.3 tonnes of emissions a year and then we can run that through a grid decarbonisation forecast.

So as well as the UK PLC carbon target, Belway Homes PLC have our own carbon target. So they are instrumental in us achieving that category 11 use of sold product target.

There's so much more to say about that and we'll come back onto this topic as part of the podcast on another occasion and look at some more of those details.

One of the things that I was really interested in is how as house builders you're integrating the idea of heat pumps, how we work with heat pumps into your business functions and into your supply chain and how you see that working and moving in the future Tim, do you want to just kick us off on that?

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely gone beyond just the design and technical teams. We first started implementing air source heat pumps on our partnership sites where low carbon heating was already part of the agreement.

It sort of gave us a great place to start learning how to implement air source heat pumps.

And that allowed us to sort of bring in the regional and site teams and to get them some hands on experience with the technology early on without feeling like it was sort of a sudden bolt on. It was sort of small parcels in and around sites where they were just getting used to the technology.

And sort of from there we've gradually embedded that learning across the wider business. Everybody needs to understand what's different, why it's different and how it's supposed to be controlled and run.

The real shift has been recognizing this as a business wide change and not just a technical one.

So heat pumps only work well when the whole organization really is aligned in the way they're thinking and how we can get those systems into our house types and get the customers using them efficiently.

And is there a difference between the way that you think about heat pump installations, between partnerships, homes and homes for sale, or is it both the same?

It's the same. It's just that it's almost forced the hand really in terms of getting on the air source heat pump train early.

It gave us the information we needed to be able to pass the customers the relevant guidance, et cetera, on how those systems are run and just to make sure that everything was really well installed.

And you were talking about sales teams. What's the difference in the way that you might sell and also work on the customer journey when you've got heat pumps in the properties?

I guess the difference being really obvious. Everybody is already so familiar with how gas boilers are and how to run them, there's a lot more flexibility.

You know, if, if somebody's turning the, turning the thermostats up to 21 degrees or whatever, it doesn't make that much difference. You know, it's still going to, it's still going to run relatively efficiently or as efficiently as it can.

Whereas with airsoft seat pumps, it's about letting the customers know how they need to control it to make it as efficient as they can.

And what we've had to do is to introduce those handover packs, get the manufacturers on board, make sure that we can, we know that the information that we're giving the customer is accurate and they know exactly how to run the house as soon as they move in.

So, Jamie, how have you been embedding heat pumps into the systems for your business?

We've done sort of research with academics, we've done exemplary on site. What that enabled us to do was to develop an internal design document that we then can start communicating.

Because Bellway, we are 22 divisions or 22 businesses based between Scotland and Kent.

One thing we have found out with internal comms, when we are writing technical notes, it has to be reframed for each of the teams, if you like, so we can communicate very technically with the technical teams, obviously.

But then we have to sort of reframe that for commercial, for instance, or for land and planning, and more particularly for our sales and marketing team. From the development of the basic design principle and getting the understanding of what works and what good looks like, we have moved that.

Each of the divisions have been not so much levered but requested to run a site with heat pumps on. We have schemes where it's more difficult for us to get a grid gas connection, so we're defaulting straight to heat pumps on that.

So some of the divisions have got maybe two or three or even four schemes with full heat pumps on already. The other divisions, and this was all about us getting that knowledge, getting that understanding into the divisional office.

Now, each divisional Office might have 14 or 15 sites, but it's then to make that the training hub for everybody within that division to go and have an experience of, you know, what changed for the plumbing contract to what changed for the electrician. More importantly, what sales change for the. For the sales staff when. When talking to the customers.

Thank you. And, Lizzie, I mean, what difference is it for you? I mean, what's the difference between dealing with builders who are specifying gas boilers and.

And what needs to change in terms of when they start talking to you about heat pumps?

With heat pumps, it's exactly as the guys have said, it's early consideration of the full system. The gas boiler can almost just be like, it fits in where it's always fitted in that kitchen cupboard or something like that.

I think we have a large design team who we've done a lot of work with, who do heating design. So we offer fully indemnified heating designs. We've upskilled that team considerably.

We've also worked a lot on how that team works with developers when it comes to heat pumps as well. And what we encourage is really early engagement.

We've done sort of consultancy calls with developers before it gets to the point of actually producing the heating designs.

To get the information up front, we actually have like now have a data capture sheet that we try and get people to fill in so that they have all the information in advance. And I think sometimes people are like, why are you asking me for all this information up front?

And then actually it makes the heating design so much easier when it comes to planning that all out, which then leads to less revisions and a much smoother journey down the line. And we also, because we offer a lot of training, we've done training with new build contractors and support on site as well.

So obviously we've not had to go out and support a contractor to put in a gas boiler for many, many years.

But we, if I spoke to our technical manager who manages our heat pump sort of after sales technical team, we have had done assisted commissioning on sites when it's the first few heat pumps that have gone in. We've actually had some of our team back on site when the first homeowners have moved in as well.

So I think there's a lot more support all the way through and collaboration all the way through the process, which sort of helps for a smoother journey all the way through. And I think that's, that's really important.

I suppose the thing is we want to make sure that the people living in these houses are enjoying that experience.

So Jamie, what's, what's been your early householder feedback and is that changing anything that you're, you know, about the way you're thinking about your heat pumps and the way you're designing the systems?

So Chris, we haven't had a great deal of feedback yet. However, what I will say is we've done a lot of R&D with unoccupied plots.

So we've, we've done our work with Salford, we've done our work on, on other schemes. Our next research project is to work with customers in occupied plots. We want to do a little bit of measuring.

We want to see what customer behavior, you know, exactly how warm are they heating the house, what time do they have the they're heated on, how much water, hot water are they using.

But that's going to be really important for us because we think the future running costs are as much about us designing correctly, installing correctly, commissioning correctly.

Running costs are going to be about us getting those three things right and training the customer to live differently with a heat pump to the gas boiler. They've probably been used to. That will be the challenge is that change of mindset from the.

Well, I've got a smart learning thermostat I turn my heating on at half past four. When I go home at five o', clock, my house is warm. You know, that's not necessarily going to apply with a heat pump.

You know, it's that mindset and making sure that we have the technology to assist.

Okay, Tim, I can see you nodding. Any thoughts from a Miller perspective?

Yeah, I mean, yeah, very similar to Jamie really. We've not had any negative feedback as yet. That can only be a good thing in our view.

But that said, you know, we have been listening to what's coming through from elsewhere, you know, on, you know, from not necessarily new builds but from air source heat pumps that have been installed and existing, for example, and what you hear consistently, it's not that the heat pumps themselves aren't working, it's that the people don't always understand how they're meant to be used. If they're expecting gas boiler behavior, for example, they're just not going to be able to get that from an air source heat pump.

I've recently installed an air source heat pump myself and it is, you know, it does take some getting used to just to leave the thermostat alone.

But as long as you get, you've got good insulation, got good detailing, you know, you don't get the heat losses that you used to have got, you know, in the older properties. It's just getting that education across really.

And Joe, Tim, I'll just add to that. I think it's really important to engage your customer, train your customer and keep in touch with your customer.

Yeah, because as soon as, I think as soon as you lose them to YouTube and the customer going and self educating, I think that is the point where it could become more difficult for you.

100% Agree, Jamie. We'll be constantly keeping in touch with customers, making sure that, you know, they are 100% happy with what you know, how the system runs and making sure that they're doing it as they should be. Really.

Okay, Lizzie, what are you seeing at your end when it comes to feedback?

We always say we want people to be a bit underwhelmed when they have the heat pump.

It's a bit like when we do the demos here, they've read every newspaper article going, they expect it to sound like a rocket taking off and then everyone stands around this fan unit and goes, oh, is that it?

We put a lot of thought into the usability of our products, particularly our thermostat, because that's what the homeowner is going to be interacting with. We have a heat pump specific thermostat, which is a variation from the one we have for the boilers.

And when we develop that, we put some what we would call heat pump positive behavior prompts into it. So the automatic schedule is on and set back instead of on and off. And it encourages positive heat pump behavior.

And if they go to change it, it's like, oh, excuse me, have you thought, you know, are you sure you want to change that? So we're trying to incorporate that into the, into the design of the products. We also have a heat pump specific customer service desk.

We've separated that from the guys that do the boilers, both from a technical and a householder sort of response.

They can do video calls because a lot of the time when a householder calls and they've maybe got a problem with the heat pump, it invariably, unless there is actually a technical problem and there's a warranty call and we send a service engineer out, helping to use the controls is critical.

So being able to either dial in remotely if they've got connected controls, or be on a video call with them to be able to see what they're looking at and what they're pressing is really important.

When we first developed our thermostat, even for the boilers, we did a lot of usability testing where we test the user interface and how the product is interacted with by homeowners. And I think the reality of the situation isn't that people are really, really good at operating gas boilers.

It's that a lot of people don't really understand heating. They're not very engaged with it because nobody really has to.

You have a gas boiler, you can turn your heating on when you need it on, you can turn it down. And some people are probably running a gas boiler really inefficiently. They don't really understand heating controls or their thermostat.

But you're okay because your gas boiler heats everything up very quickly. So it's quite forgiving in that sense with the heat pump because you're running at a lower temperature and it's that little bit more sensitive.

You do need the householder to maybe be a little bit more engaged with the controls and with how they control their heating and break maybe some bad habits that weren't running the boiler very efficiently anyway and things. And that's where the education piece comes in. It's not like everybody's got to go to engineering school to be able to control their heat pump.

Absolutely. Not at all. Usually the less they touch it the better. But people and heating controls are fascinating and really interesting.

I always refer to my aunt. She's got a heat only boiler and a cylinder.

And I remember watching her as she clicked the thermostat, the timer on and off, I think about 17 times in one day. She thought that was completely a normal way to operate her heating controls. That was just how she, she did that.

And she didn't think there's anything wrong with it, but she definitely wasn't using those controls in the way that whoever designed them meant them to be used. So I think it's, it's awareness and understanding. And that low temperature.

So when people touch the radiators, you know, you can't maybe dry your pants on them. You're not, you're not going to sort of feel as hot. That doesn't mean it's not working.

This idea is that it's low and slow and that your house is perfectly warm enough without you having to blast it with heat. It's just something that is an understanding piece.

I think that's magic. Thank you very much. Now, this is the point where I like to grant three wishes, but I'm being a bit mean. You're only gonna get one each.

What would your wish be in terms of what you'd like a home builder to be able to take away from this podcast about starting on the heat pump journey? What's the one thing that you'd like them to take away? And I'm gonna end with Lizzie, but I'm gonna start with Tim. So, Tim, what's your one thing?

I keep going back to it, Chris.

It's just that early engagement with everybody, getting everybody involved from the outset, getting all the designs in early, all your third party designs in early, just to make sure that nothing clashes. Just because it's such a new technology to get used to.

Everybody needs to be up to speed with it, way ahead of it actually being on site because that's, to me, that's where the problems are going to come.

Okay. And Jamie, I see you nodding at that one, but you have to give me a different one.

Yeah.

You know, no, what you need to take away is everything Tim's just said there and then. And then where I'd go is you, you engage with your plumbing contractor. They've got to understand hydronics.

It's a different world from gas boilers to heat pumps. So are they MCS certified? Have they installed heat pumps previously? From our experience, the plumber really needs to upskill.

Okay, and Lizzie, what's your one thing you'd like house builders to take away.

From our podcast today, I think communication and collaboration. So I would say engage with your manufacturer early and all the way through the process.

We have the resources and the facilities to support right the way through from design to warranty and training. So I think, yeah, communication and collaboration, brilliant.

Well, Lizzie, Jamie, Tim, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's been a real pleasure having you. Thank you. No problem.

Thank you, Chris, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thanks for listening to this episode of the Future Homes podcast. And thanks once again to Lizzie, Tim and Jamie.

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