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₿HS021: The Wild Life of Unschooling
Episode 2120th February 2024 • Bitcoin Homeschoolers • Scott and Tali Lindberg
00:00:00 00:58:48

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SHOW TOPICS:  life-long parent-child bonds, unschooling FUD, filling your own emotional cup

Unschooling can build incredible, life-long parent-child bonds.  You trust them.  They trust you.  Give your kids a loving, respectful and happy home.

Parents may have to de-school themselves.  There is a lot of FUD about unschooling.  Unschooling is the opposite of being lazy and locking kids up.  It’s about getting active and having a network, a caring community.  There’s a balance.  Kids are free to explore and choose their own path, but parents are there to guide.  It’s not a completely hands-off experience.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Alex’s background and inspiration for taking self-custody of her son’s education
  • She left Germany as a single Mom and without a specific plan other than she knew they had to leave
  • Alex’s ideas of what people who can’t homeschool, e.g., in Germany
  • There are certain countries around Germany that way more relaxed when it comes to homeschool so if you’re living on the border you can send them there instead.
  • West River Academy was another option Alex found to be very helpful for unschooling families
  • Clarifying the FUD … “Unschooling” means kids have a choice, including going to school.  Also, parents do set boundaries.
  • Kids learn because they need something in life, e.g., basic math skills.
  • Kids learn how to learn.  Then they can apply this skill to other areas and other problems.
  • Alex’s son has a variety of coaches, e.g.,  at his boxing / MMA club.
  • Unschooling is the opposite of being lazy and locking kids up.  It’s about getting active and having a network, a caring community. 
  • Tali discusses a letter she wrote to herself when her first-born was an infant.
  • Contrast between Alex’s German background and Tali’s Chinese background leads to some fun back-and-forth.
  • There’s a balance in un-schooling.  Kids are free to explore and choose their own path, but parents are there to guide.  It’s not a completely hands-off experience.  
  • Not everyone you know, friends or family, will understand what you’re doing.  The most important thing is that the kids feel loved.
  • For Alex, the most important thing was letting go of her fear and programming … to de-school herself.
  • She recommends self-discovery activities and habits.  The more you love yourself, the more you trust yourself, the better it is for your kids.  Fill your own cup.
  • Reach out to other moms if you’re considering homeschooling or unschooling.  

ALEX’S SOCIALS

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

HAPPY TO HELP:

  • Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
  • Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
  • Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
  • Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
  • Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
  • Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

Transcripts

Alex:

they learn how to walk without the government, they learn everything,

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I mean, he's speaking two languages

fluently, he's now learning English,

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but because he wants to do it, not

because I push him to do anything,

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so unschooling is a lot about trust,

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we need to break that stigma of we need

to be separated from our kids because

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I think most of the kids really enjoy

being with mom and dad, see what they

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are up to learning and all these things.

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Tali: there are out people

out there who really question

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what we do as homeschoolers.

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And then when you say then also

unschooling on top of that, they're

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like, what the heck are you doing then?

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Alex: think about unschooling as

discovering your own soul path

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the more I was able to let go, the

more he became creative, outgoing,

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powerful in his way to explore.

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So it's a lot of work, a lot

of work, but it's worth it.

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Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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I'm really excited to tell you about

today's episode telly and I had the

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opportunity to sit down with Alex.

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Alex is putting in the proof of

work when it comes to unschooling.

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She's the host of the

podcast called wild life.

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The unschooling podcast.

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And we got into it.

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We didn't always agree.

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It was a lot of fun.

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And I think because of that,

you're actually going to

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get a lot more out of this.

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So sit back and enjoy.

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Tali: So hi, Alex.

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Welcome to Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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We are so excited to have you on the show.

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We're going to spend a lot of time

talking about unschooling today.

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So welcome.

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Alex: Thank you so much for having me.

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Scott: So

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Tali: glad you're here.

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Let's start by just diving a

little bit into your background.

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What brought you to

homeschooling your child?

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Can

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Alex: That is a good question.

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Um, it started the very first

second when I hold him fresh,

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uh, hatched from the egg.

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Um, I had the feeling like, okay, this

dude is, is not going to go to school.

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I just had it in my, in my gut

somehow, but I didn't really believe.

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what I was feeling.

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So the time went on and he went to

a democratic kindergarten in Berlin,

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where there were no rules whatsoever.

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And the kindergarten teachers really

prepped me in what is coming next in,

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in your journey and your kid's journey.

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And I was always like, I

don't see him in school yet.

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I don't see it.

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And I was like, maybe in a couple

of years or something like that.

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But then eventually the time came when

he needed to go to school in Germany.

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There's a legal age from

something like that.

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And, um, yeah, we visited 34 schools,

I think very free schools, like

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democratic schools, uh, forest

schools, all these different things.

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And with every school, there was

something that he didn't like.

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And he, the, the sentence

he said the most was.

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Is this slavery?

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I want to go home.

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And after like so many schools we visited,

I was like, dude, I feel the same.

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I don't want to stay in that

country that I don't want to be in.

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The weather's shit.

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The people are always grumpy.

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The school system sucks.

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And seriously, I want to see the world

because we were used to travel a lot.

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I was still studying and I was able to

be in Berlin three months, then travel.

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And I didn't want to.

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Give this, give this up for sure, because

it felt right for me to discover the

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world and I then had the crazy idea

to, uh, how about we leave Germany?

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I didn't have a plan yet.

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I was just very sure I don't want

to go to jail for not bringing

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my kid to school every morning.

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So I was like, okay, let's sell

everything we, we have, let's give

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everything away and let's start traveling.

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And we traveled for quite some time.

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And then I discovered, okay, if I keep on

traveling, I can avoid schooling at all.

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And then I started homeschooling

because I'm a German teacher.

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And I thought like, okay, now he has, has

to learn how to read and all these things.

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And my kid was always so, um,

frustrated with me because I

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was pushing him and pushing.

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And then I.

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Had a deep talk with myself and I

felt that, okay, I need to let go

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and let go a bit, a little bit more.

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And as there was no authority

coming to me, telling me, Oh,

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now he has to go to school.

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I was able to really, um, take a deep look

and say myself, what do I want for him?

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And, uh, then I came across

that idea of unschooling.

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I thought I invented it, but then I met

other families that are unschooling.

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And I was like, dude,

this is the thing I love.

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Um, I love the raw sense of, of living.

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I like it.

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I like this, uh, deepness of

discovering yourself and everything.

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And I thought, okay, this is it.

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I'm going to do that.

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And I'm going to do it.

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Um, way, no matter what people say.

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And I got so much backlash from my family.

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You can imagine, but, um,

this is how we ended up there.

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Like no plan, just discovering

yourself, the world exploring.

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Scott: I love it.

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I love it.

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Tell you, can I go first?

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I know you have a lot of questions,

but okay, so Alex, one of the things

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that's on my mind is the podcast

we did the episode prior to this.

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Tali and I were attempting to answer

questions that we had gotten where

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someone would say like in a, in

Fountain or something else, they'd say

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it, it's, it's all well and good for

you guys, but what if you live in a

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country where homeschooling is illegal?

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And then there was also what

Tali and I talked about.

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And even if you're in the U S with the

way things are with inflation, et cetera,

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a lot of families, they need both incomes

to survive and homeschooling is not an

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option for them, but the principles.

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So, the principles that

we're talking about,

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Tali: they

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Scott: they do apply.

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And when you and I first spoke, you

had a couple of ideas for people.

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And since Tali and I were coming

at it from perspective, kind of a

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theoretical perspective, I would

love someone who has actually been

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there, actually went through it to

give their perspective on when you're

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in a, when you're in a circumstance.

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And then I think you also had

a couple of recommendations for

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other people who might be in the

circumstance that you were in prior.

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I'd love to hear your,

your thoughts on that.

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Tali: This is illegal, and for

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Alex: Yeah.

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So first of all, with this, uh,

income thing, I'm a single mom.

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So if I can do it, you can do it.

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Everyone has a gift that,

uh, they can share online.

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Every single one of us

is, is incredibly gifted.

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And I need to say.

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Even though I was still studying and I had

to be in university, I just took my kid.

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He was baby when I, I think he

was two weeks old when I needed

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to go back to university and

he was with me all the time.

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So we need to break that stigma of we

need to be separated from our kids because

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I think most of the kids really enjoy

being with mom and dad, see what they

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are up to learning and all these things.

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I was studying languages, Arabic,

Hindi, Hebrew, and um, a couple of.

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Um, like his first sentences were actually

in Arabic because he was surrounded by

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Arabic speaking people all the time.

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So with this income thing, you can do it.

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You can do it.

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It's hard, but you can do it.

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I didn't sleep for years

because I was working at night.

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I was watching my kid at daytime,

still studying, traveling, all of that.

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But if you really want to

do it, You're going to do it

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because there's no other way.

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I never felt like, uh, I had a choice.

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I was just doing what was necessary

to, uh, keep my kid in safety.

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Um, and this other thing, yeah, um,

I can speak for German, for Germany.

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It's, it's a very, let's say, hairy

situation over there because you

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end up in jail probably if you,

Unschool your kid or homeschool.

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This idea is not really known.

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And if you do it, you're already

like on the list of terrorist,

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uh, people, I don't know.

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So, um, there's actually a thing.

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There are certain countries around

Germany that are way more relaxed

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when it comes to homeschool.

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And like I said, France,

Poland, I think as well.

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And if you're living close to the border,

you can just send your kids to school

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there and don't send them to school.

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You know what I mean?

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So there's always a thing you can,

yeah, you can dance around that stuff.

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And of course you, if you are

like, if they get you, if they,

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if they discover what you're

doing, then you have a problem.

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But in the end, I don't know how, I

know so many families that are doing

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this since, I don't know, years and

they are doing really good in that.

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And there's a general

thing I can recommend.

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It's, it's, uh, an

international school from the U.

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S.

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It's called West River Academy and

they cover All of that legal stuff

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worldwide, almost worldwide, I think,

and this is what I can recommend.

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If you still feel like you

need legal protection, then

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just onboard your kids there.

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They don't have to do any online stuff.

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They can, but they don't have to.

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And it's really the, for me, it

looks like the perfect option

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to legalize what you're doing.

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And they give you all the

records, transcripts, everything

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you need for the government.

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And on the other side, it's like a

huge community of unschooling families

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that are connected through that school.

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And it's giving you power and

energy to keep going with that.

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And because it's not always easy

and we need that community, I guess.

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So this is not only for your kids.

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It's also for yourself.

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Scott: that makes me more bullish

because obviously we're, Tali and I are

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not spending a lot of time in Germany.

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We just hear, Hey, this is illegal.

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And for you to say that many

people are doing this, many people

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are doing it quite successfully.

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That makes me feel really bullish

and that there are resources out

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there like you're describing.

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I think that's really helpful.

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Tali,

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Tali: I just want to ask you to expand a

little bit on the concept of unschooling.

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I think that's a really

confusing concept for people.

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They when they think unschooling,

they think you're just letting

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your kid do literally whatever

and you're not being responsible.

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So can you explain a little bit?

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Okay,

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Alex: Yeah, it can mean

anything and everything.

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So, um, unschooling doesn't mean

your kid can't go to school.

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Unschooling means your kid has the choice

to do whatever feels right in that moment.

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So if my kid tells me tomorrow,

okay, mom, I want to go to school,

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then, um, Okay, do your thing, but

unschooling on the very root is to

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set your kid free to to let him her

discover whatever feels right for them.

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I always think about unschooling

as discovering your own soul

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path because we all came here.

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With a reason, with a mission, with a

vision, and this set your, this is giving

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your kid the opportunity to really dive

into whatever this human being needs

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to do on this planet, and of course

there are natural rules like everywhere.

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Nature has rules.

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So have I, because I'm a human

being and we are living together.

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And if he's running around and

screaming all day, of course, this

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is not happening in my household,

because I set the boundaries for that.

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So I see it as, um, I let loose a lot

and I try to trust my kid as much as

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possible in whatever is right for him.

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Of course, if he's like gaming six months,

10 hours a day, this is something that I

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need to address because then I see there's

an imbalance, but this is something they

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are, um, I think they have the right

to express and to discover that for

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themselves as well and do these mistakes.

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And I don't want to compare it

to homeschooling or anything, but

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we don't have no schedule at all.

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I don't buy books that he needs to

go through or anything like that.

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I do buy the stuff that he needs.

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That's the finish line.

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And if I don't have the

money, then there is no stuff.

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And maybe he has to work for it.

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Maybe he has to.

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I don't know, ask his grandma, his auntie.

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I don't know.

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So he needs to figure out how to do stuff.

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Actually.

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If you need something really

expensive, that's not on me then.

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Um, so I see him like he's a,

yeah, like almost grown up person.

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He is self self sovereign.

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I would say he is doing

whatever feels right for him.

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And if he needs help, I'm there, but I'm

never like, Hey, dude, check this out.

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You need to learn.

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Sometimes I discover stuff that

I liked as a kid very, very much.

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And that I know that helped me,

um, widening my perception of

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reality and in the world in general.

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And I'm like, Hey dude, I love that.

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Maybe you will love it too.

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And most of the times he's

like, nah, that's so stupid.

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So in general, unschooling

for me is, um, trust.

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Um, self responsible living on both sides

on every side of the family and just going

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with the flow, really going with the flow

and de schooling yourself because all this

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programming I had, I was putting it on my

kid because I wasn't able to unschool yet.

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I was still like, Oh my

God, he's missing out.

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I'm failing him.

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But after now, I don't know,

six years of unschooling, I

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can say he learned how to read.

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By himself, one day he was just able

to read this is how it's, I think,

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always been, I mean, they learn how to

walk without the government, they learn

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everything, I mean, he's speaking two

languages fluently, he's now learning

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English, but because he wants to do it,

not because I push him to do anything,

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so unschooling is a lot about trust,

letting go and seeing the world through

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your kid's eyes and learning a completely

new dimension of what is out there.

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Scott: Okay,

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Tali: so as a homeschooling mom, and

I didn't unschool, I was probably

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the other extreme of that spectrum.

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So I'm going to challenge you

with a few questions that I

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think a lot of new homeschoolers

would have about unschooling.

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So you mentioned that if your son

wanted to spend 10 hours a day

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playing video games six months in

a row, you would then step in and

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say, Hey, this is not productive.

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If, so my question to you is, if

your son says, you know what, I am

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just not interested in mathematics,

I don't care that 1 plus 1 equals

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2, I don't care about multiplication

tables, are you saying that because

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you're an unschooler, you would allow

him to graduate high school or enter

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adulthood and never learn mathematics?

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Alex: I couldn't care less if he, if

he wants to learn maths, but they learn

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because they need it in life, you know,

this is the funny part of it, even

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though I don't care, the world is caring

because they get feedback from the world.

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And if they are gaming sooner or later,

they need to calculate certain things.

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And it's way more complex.

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than what I was expecting him

to, to be involved with at

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this point of, um, at his age.

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So, um, I don't care if he's interested.

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He needs to do it because he

needs to do certain things.

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And this gives me the relief of, it's

not a really, I'm not pushing him.

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It's, it's a need.

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It's a necessity for him to go to

certain, yeah, worlds, digital worlds.

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He needs to.

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Scott: I'm curious on that.

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So he, he needs it for the, he's playing

with whoever he's playing with online.

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It's very social as I understand it.

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I'm not a video game guy.

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And how do you support that?

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Do you say here are,

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Tali: I

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Scott: I mean, it doesn't have to

be textbooks or YouTube or whatever,

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but are you pointing him towards.

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Algebra, or something else and say,

here are the things you can choose

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from, or are you literally just

saying, no, no, no, go figure it out.

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Like, how is he, like, when, when

that experience happens, like

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the math experience, what is your

next step to help him with that?

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Alex: So maybe I can give you an example.

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One of the things I remember, he was

figuring out something in Minecraft.

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He needs to push something.

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This is.

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So many times to get this and that stuff,

but it was some complex, uh, relay, like

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I D I don't really, I don't really know.

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It wasn't like, uh, I push that button

one time and I get one block of something.

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It was a bit more complex.

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And he was like, how

can I figure that out?

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And I was like, okay, dude, you have

a Lego, so grab your Lego and just.

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make it reality, like physical reality.

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And then you, you grab, you, you

understand the complexity of what you're

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doing there, actually in the digital

world, because you can always come

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back to the physical world and apply

it to stuff you can actually feel.

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Because I think feeling things.

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Uh, and bonding with these things for

me personally is always a better way

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to learn something if I have it in

front of me and not only in my head.

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So every time he's coming to me

with something, I just try to

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listen to my intuition and, um,

I don't really have a recipe.

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So if he's coming to me with something,

I don't have no clue whatsoever.

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I'm like, okay, you know what I think.

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Park could know about that

or something like that.

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So there's a huge community around us with

so many beautiful, intelligent people.

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If I don't know, then someone else knows.

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And most of the times he don't

even ask, he he's figuring it out.

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And then he's presenting

me, uh, the result.

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And sometimes he's sharing with

me his, his journey to the result.

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Scott: So what I hear is, I'm thinking,

I'm comparing what you're describing

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to what I think of as a public school.

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Public school, I think of, it's very

Directional, the teacher or some

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authority is going to say, here's

how, what your next steps are.

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What you're describing is you're going

to need to figure out what, how to

331

:

teach yourself and learn how to learn.

332

:

And, and he can now apply that to the next

problem without even asking you, right?

333

:

So he's like, well, who do I know?

334

:

Is it my grandfather?

335

:

Is it somebody else who knows his

subject, but he's learning how to learn.

336

:

And.

337

:

Tali: help himself.

338

:

Would

339

:

Scott: that, would that be an

accurate, uh, way of describing that?

340

:

Alex: Yeah, I think pretty much.

341

:

Tali: I have more pushback.

342

:

Scott: Keep going, sweetie.

343

:

Keep going.

344

:

This is going to

345

:

be

346

:

Um, yeah,

347

:

Alex: it on.

348

:

No.

349

:

Tali: the concept of having

350

:

Scott: having

351

:

a

352

:

Tali: accelerating, learning

something because they've done

353

:

it before, they've been there

before versus you fumbling around.

354

:

Um, and I get the idea that in the

struggle of trying to solve your own

355

:

problem, you, you learn, but there's

also on the flip side of that, you can

356

:

save a lot of time and energy if someone

has done it and can teach it to you.

357

:

And so.

358

:

I guess my struggle is just in the trust

part that you seem really comfortable

359

:

with, probably because of my own

upbringing, but, um, having, having

360

:

witnessed the development of our four

kids and the, the vastly different

361

:

personalities that they have in terms

of self motivation, exploration, etc.

362

:

I guess I just really struggle with

the concept that just letting them go

363

:

Scott: is

364

:

Tali: okay.

365

:

Scott: Well, I'm really interested

in this, I'm going to kind of watch

366

:

you guys go back and forth on these

different, these different takes so

367

:

we can, we can all learn, but I, what

I'm hearing in this discussion is not

368

:

that there's not a coach, it's, it's

more that there's a coach when they

369

:

need the coach, sort of like when the

student is ready, the teacher presents

370

:

himself like we've talked about before.

371

:

That's what I hear as opposed to,

I'm letting my kid outside, and in

372

:

18 years, you know, he's on his own.

373

:

Like, I'm not hearing that.

374

:

Anyway, so

375

:

Tali: I understand.

376

:

I understand that he's not being neglected

because you know, you know what, you

377

:

know that stigma that people have.

378

:

With homeschoolers, they lock their kids

in the room and they call themselves

379

:

homeschoolers kind of thing and so, so

sort of along the same line, if people

380

:

think on schooling, it's almost like,

oh, these are just lazy parents who don't

381

:

want to do anything, just let their kids

do whatever they want, you know, I'm

382

:

And Playing the devil's advocate because

there are out people out there who really

383

:

question what we do as homeschoolers.

384

:

And then when you say homeschooling

on and then also unschooling on

385

:

top of that, they're like, what

the heck are you doing then?

386

:

You know what I'm saying?

387

:

Alex: True, true.

388

:

But you know what?

389

:

How am I learning?

390

:

Um, so I'm surrounded by a beautiful

community that is, um, really

391

:

into learning, like, Evolving when

it comes to permaculture to, uh,

392

:

healthy food and all these things.

393

:

So here's a huge community and

everyone has a gift and they are always

394

:

sharing it in workshops and so on.

395

:

And so this is natural for me at least

if I don't know something and I want

396

:

to know I'm asking a friend or i'm

asking someone who is actually Really

397

:

good in it and is, uh, doing workshops

or whatever, you know what I mean?

398

:

So what I see is that my kid is free

to do whatever and that he has a huge

399

:

pool of coaches that are there for him.

400

:

I mean, he is, for example,

really good in MMA.

401

:

So I can't teach him that because I'm

afraid of him because he's so big now

402

:

and if he's punching me, it really hurts.

403

:

So a couple of years ago, I told

him, dude, we can't fight anymore.

404

:

If you like to fight, you're going to

have to go to the boxing club and he's

405

:

doing it and he's enjoying his time there.

406

:

So there, he has a very strict,

um, environment there because

407

:

you can imagine learning how to

fight is not, uh, how you learn.

408

:

I don't know how to set up a Minecraft.

409

:

Serve at home with your mom.

410

:

It's something else.

411

:

So he has this broad, uh, diversity

of different coaches with different

412

:

learning styles and all of that.

413

:

And he loves it.

414

:

He loves it.

415

:

He loves the strict ones.

416

:

He loves the hippy dippy ones.

417

:

So he has actually a huge pool of

people who really feel responsible

418

:

for the kids that are here.

419

:

And that I like the most because the

people here, a lot of families are

420

:

unschooling or homeschooling, but

a lot of them are just unschooling.

421

:

Um, and they just have a

different approach to kids.

422

:

They see them as, yeah, very grown, very,

um, mature and very Yeah, I don't know.

423

:

It's very different from how I was

seen a child from my, my surroundings.

424

:

So, um, it's not so much

I'm being the lazy parent.

425

:

It's more or less a lot of organization.

426

:

Like, where are the kids now?

427

:

Where do they want to go?

428

:

Who can deliver what?

429

:

And these kind of things.

430

:

Most of the stuff they are,

like, organizing by themselves,

431

:

but still, there's someone You

can't go anywhere by foot here.

432

:

It's a very small island, and you

have to drive by car everywhere.

433

:

So, uh, it's always Some, someone who

needs to be there, who needs to be

434

:

with them and these kinds of things.

435

:

So it's, I think the opposite of

being lazy and locking them up.

436

:

It's about really getting active,

uh, having this network, having this

437

:

community, caring for the community

and the other people, because

438

:

you have to give something back.

439

:

My child has to give

something back as well.

440

:

You know, it's not like, it's not like he

has to give something back, like me, I'm a

441

:

grown, but the kids as well, they're, um,

really integrated in that society here.

442

:

So it is, I think, really the

opposite of locked up kids.

443

:

It's more or less like,

when are they going to come?

444

:

Come back home.

445

:

I have no clue.

446

:

They're always on the run.

447

:

They're always on the go.

448

:

They have plans and they

have beautiful plans.

449

:

And sometimes, yeah, they're

just sitting around sometimes

450

:

two or three days in a row.

451

:

And they're just painting and, and

drawing and these kinds of things.

452

:

But I see that as very, um,

Yeah, it's a necessity as well.

453

:

Um, so lazy, nobody here is lazy.

454

:

What I saw is the more I was able to

let go, the more he became creative,

455

:

outgoing, powerful in his way to explore.

456

:

So it's a lot of work, a lot

of work, but it's worth it.

457

:

Scott: Okay.

458

:

I just got to get, make sure I

got the okay from Tali that I

459

:

can keep, keep going on that one.

460

:

I, I, I feel like if we were together, we

would be talking for many hours on each

461

:

of these things, but there's so many, so

many things we should at least touch on.

462

:

Another one on the list today that

I wanted to get your point of view

463

:

on is something that, that said

bunny is very passionate about,

464

:

and that is the parent child bond.

465

:

And if you could comment on.

466

:

And I'd love to get your, if you

could share your experience, anything

467

:

that you're willing to share,

468

:

um, about what this experience has

been in terms of a parent child bond.

469

:

Alex: So I need to say, um, I was

very young when I had my child.

470

:

I was 23 and I was still super programmed.

471

:

I mean, I went to one of the

strictest schools in Germany.

472

:

It was a private something.

473

:

Then I studied for 10 years

and I really did my job great.

474

:

So I had a lot of programming,

a lot of stress and a lot of,

475

:

yeah, very German way of living.

476

:

Yeah.

477

:

I'm going to get up at six naturally.

478

:

Why not?

479

:

So, um, when I learned that you can

just skip all of that and be a very,

480

:

very happy kid, and I had a very,

let's say, stressful childhood.

481

:

So it was completely new for me to

discover what does a happy child need?

482

:

How does it look like?

483

:

What does it feel like to be that happy?

484

:

How does it feel like to be the

mom that provides the happy space?

485

:

Um, so what I learned and what I would.

486

:

Maybe do different now as I

would be so much more radical

487

:

right from the beginning.

488

:

It would be always about What does

my kid need and not one single

489

:

second about what does society

want from my kid or me as a mom?

490

:

I would like to delete that from

my past because uh, since I was

491

:

able to let go more more and more

the relationship between me and

492

:

my kid got Deeper and deeper.

493

:

It was always super deep because we

were, I was so, so close and I did

494

:

stuff very differently than normal.

495

:

Yeah.

496

:

I don't know.

497

:

Uh, people maybe.

498

:

So what I can say is having this much

trust in your child, your child is

499

:

giving you that trust back for sure.

500

:

And the respect you put in,

they, they, uh, you get it back.

501

:

And what I really love is that my kid.

502

:

Knows that this is a secure home.

503

:

He is funny.

504

:

He, he's able to cry.

505

:

He's able to be grumpy

and these kinds of things.

506

:

He's really able to let

all these emotions out.

507

:

I wasn't able to do that as a kid.

508

:

So what I see is unschooling gave

me the perfect opportunity to really

509

:

see the raw human being, the soul

that came here to discover life.

510

:

And I'm just providing whatever

he needs to, to go that way.

511

:

And of course there are struggles within

every relationship in with yourself, with

512

:

himself, each other, all these things.

513

:

But, um, I, I S I think

I can see that very.

514

:

And I'm very aware and I like that I see

every detail of that relationship growing

515

:

and deepening with every day practically.

516

:

So for me, a game changer

for myself as well.

517

:

It changed me completely as a,

as a human being completely.

518

:

Scott: Talia, maybe you can comment on

too, because that was one of your, I feel

519

:

like you and Alex had a similar experience

when you first looked at your first child.

520

:

You're like, I want, I'm the one

who's raising this person that I'm,

521

:

I'm the one that's going to have the

relationship with this, this other person.

522

:

Tali: I did.

523

:

I mean.

524

:

Hmm.

525

:

I held our first baby.

526

:

I was originally going to go back

to work and I decided I didn't want

527

:

her being raised by somebody else.

528

:

One big difference though in my

experience was I still remember

529

:

vividly a letter that I wrote to

our first born when she was born.

530

:

And I have a Chinese background

and you know the Confucius.

531

:

Philosophy of

532

:

Scott: the, the

533

:

Tali: parents are absolutely

and 100 percent responsible

534

:

for how their kids turn out.

535

:

So I felt 100 percent responsible

for exactly how she turns out.

536

:

How much of her potential she

expresses in her life was up to me.

537

:

So I wrote her this letter.

538

:

And I wrote in the letter that I

hope I can do my very best to bring

539

:

out to I bring out her potential

because I was the one responsible.

540

:

Now, actually, it's interesting because

I was talking to our girls recently

541

:

about that and I said, you know,

with what I know now, I would have

542

:

done things completely differently.

543

:

I would have written a different letter.

544

:

Because I realized now that it's not

my job to bring out their potential.

545

:

They have the potential that

they can express themselves.

546

:

So I wish I had known these principles

that Alex is expressing so eloquently.

547

:

And I think her son is very,

very lucky that she discovered

548

:

these principles so early.

549

:

Our kids endured at least the first half

550

:

Scott: of

551

:

Tali: or first two thirds of the

homeschooling journey was very

552

:

traditional because I really felt that

if they couldn't read very well, it

553

:

was my fault if they couldn't read.

554

:

Couldn't do math very well.

555

:

It was my fault and I would have failed

them if they didn't meet all of these

556

:

requirements that society has listed

as a capable human being and so The

557

:

reason I'm challenging you is because

I believe that there are a lot of

558

:

parents out there Today, thinking that

they are 100 percent responsible for

559

:

bringing out their children's potential.

560

:

That's why I'm challenging her

today so that we can learn more,

561

:

you know, from this point of view.

562

:

And I think there is a balance as well.

563

:

You're, you're letting him be free

and explore and choose his own path,

564

:

but you're also there to guide gently.

565

:

So it's not like it's a completely

hands off kind of thing.

566

:

It didn't sound like to me anyway,

um, you are gentle guiding.

567

:

Whereas The way that I was taught growing

up with a very traditional Chinese

568

:

background is you told your kids what

they should and shouldn't do and what

569

:

they should like and shouldn't like.

570

:

Like, everything is prescribed

for them, but that's our way of

571

:

expressing love because we're

responsible for their success.

572

:

Alex: I, like this a lot,

573

:

Scott: yeah, I actually, I like the,

I like having two different points

574

:

of view because if I'm a listener,

I'm, I'm just eavesdropping on these

575

:

two different perspectives and I can

pick whichever one I think relates to

576

:

whatever my circumstances are and I think

that's a really good way of bringing

577

:

out the the core principles the first

principle ideas of What it's like to to

578

:

basically self custody the education.

579

:

So so, um Yeah, I'm enjoying, I'm enjoying

580

:

the back and forth.

581

:

Tali: add also that what I'm

seeing now in hindsight, right?

582

:

Because we finished this journey and

you're still in the middle of it.

583

:

When I look back and I think through.

584

:

what our approach and

how the kids turned out.

585

:

And I'm specifically only

addressing the emotion side because

586

:

intellectually, academically, skill

wise, I mean, that's ever changing.

587

:

Like you said, you're

still learning today.

588

:

We're still learning today.

589

:

The knowledge part it's ever changing,

but emotion side that stays with you.

590

:

And what I see is that when we tell

our kids What they should and should

591

:

not do throughout their childhood,

especially the younger part of their

592

:

childhood They learn to distrust their

own feelings and their own decisions

593

:

and their own desires and that part I

wish I could say back so that respect

594

:

part like actually not respect You were

mentioning the word trust that you trust

595

:

him and therefore he trusts you back.

596

:

I think that's really really key and

Yeah, I just want to throw it out there

597

:

that that's the part that I wish I could

go back and fix because I want them

598

:

to know today that how they feel is

legitimate and how they desire what they

599

:

desire that's different from from what I

desire is also legitimate because they're

600

:

different people from me and Scott.

601

:

But it's hard to take that back

if you've already programmed it in

602

:

their mind when they were young.

603

:

Scott: All right, Alex, anything

you want to challenge Tali?

604

:

You can challenge Tali too if you want.

605

:

Like take this, if you got something

on your mind to keep going with that.

606

:

I don't know.

607

:

Alex: actually something I want to say,

because I think you, or what, I mean, I

608

:

don't know you, but my feeling is from

what, how you, um, you are with me, you

609

:

are very respectful, lovely people, so.

610

:

I think this is the most important

part that your kids are loved,

611

:

respected, and have a happy home,

and this is what you gave them.

612

:

And everything else is, is so not

important, so it doesn't matter.

613

:

They are, I think they are the perfect

human beings anyway, so don't worry

614

:

about that, because I think, um, we

idolize, make, Is it the right word?

615

:

Idolize?

616

:

Idealize?

617

:

I don't know.

618

:

Sometimes we tend to perfectionize

maybe the idea of other

619

:

people's, um, relationships

with their kids and everything.

620

:

But in the end, if I unschool, homeschool,

if they go to school, the very The most

621

:

important thing is if they are loved

and you did that, so everything's fine.

622

:

And I don't see that one thing is

better or different, blah, blah, blah.

623

:

Because I think we are all at the

point in our life where we need to be.

624

:

And we are all on our own journey as well.

625

:

We are parents, we are

growing, we are learning.

626

:

And I tell my kid all the

time, dude, I'm not perfect.

627

:

I have no clue.

628

:

Most of the times I'm lost.

629

:

So this is what we are doing.

630

:

And you need to go through that

with me because my parents were

631

:

always like, We are perfect.

632

:

You can't challenge us.

633

:

And I'm like, dude, challenge me,

please, because I'm not perfect.

634

:

I want to learn from you

because you are fresh here.

635

:

You are smarter than me.

636

:

You are healthy.

637

:

You weren't traumatized

by, by crazy people.

638

:

So please teach me what is in your

mind and, um, I always tell him, please

639

:

challenge my rules, break my rules.

640

:

I want you to be smart enough to

break my rules and, uh, to make me

641

:

feel like I need to, to reinvent

myself over and over again.

642

:

And if I say this today,

it might change tomorrow.

643

:

So, um, and I, I did so many.

644

:

crazy mistakes in this

10 years of raising him.

645

:

But what I do is always coming back like,

dude, I was a different person back then.

646

:

I'm so sorry, but this is how I was.

647

:

So deal with it.

648

:

If you need therapy afterwards,

okay, I'm going to pay for it.

649

:

But, uh, until now it looks

like, um, he had a quite happy

650

:

childhood compared to my childhood.

651

:

And this is what I wanted.

652

:

And I think if we're doing it

better than, than Yeah, I don't know

653

:

what we wanted to have as a child.

654

:

I mean, we always, I mean, everyone

has something they, they wish they

655

:

had in their childhood and I think.

656

:

Tali: it's actually really interesting

you said that because When I was growing

657

:

up, you know, despite the fact that

I was raised in the Chinese culture,

658

:

my parents were very, very hands off.

659

:

I had full freedom to

do whatever I wanted.

660

:

And I felt for whatever reason, I

interpreted that as I was put in a

661

:

disadvantage because My other friends

have parents who were like helicopter

662

:

parents, and they were always given

opportunities that I wanted that my

663

:

parents didn't provide because my parents

are like, go outside and play in the dirt.

664

:

You're fine, you know.

665

:

And so I was somewhat compensating

for that when I had my kids because

666

:

I was going to make sure they got

the guidance that I wish I had.

667

:

But going back to what you said before,

which is honestly, In the end, all

668

:

that matters is they know you love

them and that they matter to you and

669

:

everything else will work themselves

out if they need therapy, then they need

670

:

Alex: we gonna pay for it.

671

:

Scott: need, they don't need therapy.

672

:

Actually, what,

673

:

what you guys have both described is

you're, you're building a lifelong

674

:

relationship with your child.

675

:

It's completely opposite of what the,

the people who want to control your kids

676

:

want to do, or they want to separate.

677

:

The

678

:

parents from the child.

679

:

They want to be able to control

them and tell them how to think.

680

:

It's, it's the whole Communist

Manifesto type of mentality.

681

:

And, regardless of what your spectrum is,

from unschooling to homeschooling to, to,

682

:

to whatever, the bottom line is, and I,

I'm giving you my, how I hear you guys

683

:

speaking, you guys, regardless of whether

you've made, you've made mistakes, you,

684

:

there is a very clear message to the

kids that you care, that if something is

685

:

Something happens that's not right because

that's what happens with, with humans.

686

:

Things happen.

687

:

It's okay.

688

:

We can work through it.

689

:

We can trust each other.

690

:

We, we love each other.

691

:

We're here for each other.

692

:

That is an amazing thing.

693

:

And I, and I, I'm very confident

that's not what most students in

694

:

today's structured environments

and whatever, whichever country,

695

:

I

696

:

think that's probably a huge

piece of what's missing.

697

:

And, and it's like an intentional divide

between kids and their, their parents that

698

:

is built into the way structured schools

are, are designed and at least run today.

699

:

And I'm not accusing all teachers

of being bad and all these other

700

:

things, but I'm just saying overall,

it has tended that direction.

701

:

And you guys have.

702

:

Done something really powerful.

703

:

That's going to last a

lifetime with the kids.

704

:

And that's pretty cool.

705

:

So, you know, hats off to

both of you because it is a

706

:

lot of, it is a lot of work.

707

:

So

708

:

Alex: It

709

:

Tali: is it is very tough,

especially if you're very, very

710

:

close, even physically, because

you're you can't escape an argument.

711

:

Scott: You can't escape, but I'll tell

you what the other thing is too, though.

712

:

You do have, and you touched on this

earlier, Alex, and that is not everybody

713

:

that you are friends with and not

everybody who's in your family will

714

:

understand what you're doing or why.

715

:

And Can you just touch on that?

716

:

What has it been like?

717

:

Alex: Oh,

718

:

yes.

719

:

Scott: could be anything from vaccines

to the schooling to, to, to whatever.

720

:

There's a, there's one thing, even

when you work through your own doubts

721

:

about what you're doing, you've had

a bad day with whatever it is, and

722

:

then along comes the family, right?

723

:

So, what has your experience been like,

uh, with that, in that dimension, the

724

:

family relationships, maybe even friends

that don't understand what you're doing?

725

:

Alex: So regarding my family, I need to

say it's easy for me because I wanted to

726

:

do the exact opposite of what they did.

727

:

So every time they are criticizing me,

I'm like, yes, I'm doing the right thing.

728

:

And I'm going to do it much more

like, I don't know, radical even more

729

:

now that I know that you hate it.

730

:

Um, because I felt like, first

of all, I have an intuition and

731

:

that is guiding me very clearly.

732

:

Secondly, if you hate it, that

tells me that I should do it.

733

:

And this was a recipe in my

head and turned out perfectly.

734

:

It is the perfect way, but

I need to say, um, yeah.

735

:

Huge parts of my family are vaccinated,

and I just try to not talk about

736

:

these kind of topics, because

I'm the weird one in the family.

737

:

We're not vaccinated, we don't go to

school, we don't do that, we don't do

738

:

this, and we don't eat crab, we don't go

to McDonald's, and these kind of things.

739

:

Um, but And the good part is

that my family, they are all very

740

:

lovely people, very, very lovely.

741

:

And the most important part

is the love between us.

742

:

It's not if you are vaccinated.

743

:

If not, it's not, if you're

going to school, it's all

744

:

about, we love each other.

745

:

We support each other.

746

:

And of course they have critical

questions, but, um, it got less and less.

747

:

And I, um, sometimes I

told them just to fuck off.

748

:

Like this is my life.

749

:

You don't have no clue.

750

:

Come here and visit me.

751

:

You can fly this 6, 000 kilometers

to, to this little island and

752

:

you see it with your own eyes.

753

:

We were building a school here,

like an unschooling school.

754

:

We have the best community.

755

:

So please come over and then

tell me I do worse than you

756

:

did as parents and impossible.

757

:

It's impossible.

758

:

So I love my parents very, very

much, but I have, I have stuff,

759

:

you know, that, um, I could.

760

:

I could, uh, like if we want to play

that game, who's the better parent?

761

:

Turns out it's me.

762

:

So, um, friends, I don't have friends who

are not into what I'm doing because of

763

:

course, sometimes people are like, um,

for example, my best friend, she's way

764

:

more strict, she's unschooling, but she's.

765

:

So strict when it comes to

gaming and these kinds of things.

766

:

And she's always like, they aren't

doing too much over there at your place.

767

:

They're always like you are to

lose and these kinds of things.

768

:

So we have an active discussion and the

rules at my place are different than

769

:

the rules at her place and the kids know

that, and we respect these boundaries.

770

:

And that's it.

771

:

Um, I don't really want anything to do

with people who are not into what I'm

772

:

doing, not because I can't stand it,

but because it doesn't bring me further.

773

:

I need people who are way more extreme

than me, way, way more crazy about

774

:

the stuff I'm already crazy about.

775

:

I need passionate people who want

to change the, the narrative, the

776

:

narrative, and they want to change

anything and everything basically.

777

:

So um.

778

:

I'm very, very lucky that I have a

very strong family and a very strong,

779

:

um, friend circle around me that is

really pushing me, um, challenging,

780

:

challenging me day to day, basically,

and also supporting me with everything.

781

:

So, um, I think this is the perfect thing.

782

:

And this understanding, I need to

say my grandparents, they're very,

783

:

very traditional and very strict.

784

:

So, um, They raised me basically, um,

I have a very deep relationship with my

785

:

grandparents, but they never wronged me.

786

:

They never did something stupid

when I was a child, even now

787

:

they are still perfect with me.

788

:

There has never been one single

situation where I was like,

789

:

why did you do that to me?

790

:

Never.

791

:

So my grandparents, they never really

understood, but they trusted my intuition

792

:

and the trust that they put in me.

793

:

Um, that changed our whole relationship.

794

:

It was always full of love and trust.

795

:

Um, but now they look up to me a

little bit because they see, like, I

796

:

raised the best kid in this family.

797

:

And they say it to me, like, this

is the best, the last hope we

798

:

have for this family is your kid.

799

:

And, um, the support that

grew out of that experience.

800

:

like the mutual experience of

respecting each other's ways of life.

801

:

Um, it's crazy.

802

:

Um, and I'm so grateful and so lucky.

803

:

I can't even put that in words, but this

is the biggest gift someone can, can give

804

:

you like respecting the way you live.

805

:

And maybe even though they don't

understand it, trust, support,

806

:

and these kinds of things.

807

:

So through that, I am able

to give that to my kid.

808

:

Um, It's the best feeling ever.

809

:

Scott: How does, uh, I'll go a

little bit sideways on you on this.

810

:

Do they associate you with Bitcoin

as part of you being kind of

811

:

out there with unschooling or

is it like a separate, like, how

812

:

does, how does that fit into this?

813

:

How does Bitcoin fit into this?

814

:

Alex: I think Bitcoin for them is, um, one

part of my very, very insane lifestyle.

815

:

Um, they don't really get it.

816

:

I try to explain it to

them once in a while.

817

:

And they're like, Oh,

you can invest for me.

818

:

I give you the money and these kinds

of things, because I think a tiny part

819

:

in, in their heart is telling them to,

yeah, try it out, try it out, try it out.

820

:

But in the end, this is all

part of Alex crazy world.

821

:

Um, We don't touch that.

822

:

It's, it's her, whatever

she's doing over there.

823

:

So,

824

:

Scott: you get into, how

did you get into Bitcoin?

825

:

I, I've got like all kinds

of Bitcoin questions.

826

:

How did you get into it?

827

:

How are you talking

about it with your son?

828

:

And then once we, we cover that, then

maybe we can kind of go into what

829

:

kind of projects you're working on and

your podcasts and that kind of stuff.

830

:

But, um, I'm curious on it is, this

is the Bitcoin homeschooling podcast.

831

:

So what's your, you know, what's your

Bitcoin story and how does it fit in?

832

:

From an education standpoint.

833

:

Alex: I discovered Bitcoin in 2015

because I was looking for something

834

:

where I could make money with.

835

:

And I had a look at stocks and

all these things and it felt off.

836

:

I didn't want anything to

do with just my intuition.

837

:

I had no clue about finance or

whatever, but I was sure I had, I

838

:

think, 500 euros and I wanted to invest.

839

:

So I somehow stumbled up, uh, upon

Bitcoin and I immediately understood,

840

:

okay, this is something else.

841

:

Somehow I need to know more.

842

:

It was like, it was pulling

me into that rabbit hole.

843

:

I did, I didn't know why, but.

844

:

I was very lucky that this happened.

845

:

So, um, I invested without really

knowing what is going, what was going on.

846

:

A couple of months or years

later, I sold my coins.

847

:

I could have been a millionaire

by now, but I'm not because

848

:

I wanted to have some gains.

849

:

Like, I don't know how many.

850

:

Couple of hundreds.

851

:

Very stupid, very stupid.

852

:

But, um, after I sold my coins,

I actually felt so stupid.

853

:

Uh, I sold it to travel, I think.

854

:

So this is okay for me because

traveling is super important.

855

:

And through that financial freedom it gave

me as a very, very young mom, um, I was

856

:

able to dig deeper into what is Bitcoin?

857

:

Why is it so attractive?

858

:

Like, what, why is it so, It

was like, uh, it was pulling

859

:

me really, um, this passion.

860

:

I don't, I didn't know where it was

coming from, but, um, this helped me to

861

:

discover a lot about finance, the system.

862

:

Uh, I always hated the government.

863

:

My parents always thought I'm ending up

being a terrorist or something like that.

864

:

So I always had this tense, uh, this,

this tend to, to be different or to, To

865

:

not be okay with a government that is

telling me how to behave, what to think,

866

:

what to do, and these kind of things.

867

:

And with Bitcoin, I was like,

dude, this is exactly what I

868

:

was looking for finance wise.

869

:

And then I was, um, I met so

many cool Bitcoiners on the way.

870

:

And I was like, dude, these are the

coolest people on this planet somehow.

871

:

And all of them just understood me.

872

:

And this I never had that in my life

because I was always the weird one.

873

:

And in this community I was

like, okay, everyone is like me.

874

:

This is beautiful.

875

:

I can just be myself.

876

:

I don't have to think about what I'm

saying or, um, anything like that

877

:

because they were way more into that.

878

:

at that point than me.

879

:

So they were teaching

me, they were guiding me.

880

:

And I really enjoyed that, um,

yeah, falling into that rabbit hole.

881

:

And it led me to millions of things.

882

:

And then I understood, okay,

who is funding the financial

883

:

system and all these things.

884

:

And I was like, dude, I'm so happy.

885

:

I discovered Bitcoin.

886

:

And this is exactly how I tell

my kid about all these things.

887

:

Uh, of course he sees me working, uh,

On Bitcoin with Bitcoin talking about

888

:

it paying with it and he had a Bitcoin

wallet before he had a traditional

889

:

bank account So he knew he was building

nodes a couple of years ago with me So

890

:

he knows way better about Bitcoin than

the normal financial system, but he

891

:

is pretty open minded and cool So he

wants to know why do Don't we trust the

892

:

normal money and these kind of things?

893

:

Um, and I just tell him exactly what I

would tell you, like the whole story.

894

:

And he's always listening.

895

:

He's always into it.

896

:

And I need to say, um, I was

working for a, for being crypto,

897

:

um, a big crypto magazine.

898

:

I don't say I'm into crypto and I've.

899

:

I've been an editor in chief for

quite a while there and I started as

900

:

a journalist because I was interested,

interested in Bitcoin and I wanted to

901

:

get paid for learning more about it.

902

:

So I became a journalist and I was

writing a lot about Bitcoin downside.

903

:

I needed to research a lot about crypto.

904

:

What made me realize

this is a scam as well.

905

:

Pretty nice thing.

906

:

And I had a boss.

907

:

And he was so much into Bitcoin and

Monero and into this privacy things.

908

:

And he really made me realize this is the

only way there's no other option anymore.

909

:

And he has a podcast in German.

910

:

So this was my big plus because

I was like, okay, there are no,

911

:

not so many resources out there,

but you know, his name is Alex.

912

:

But you know, Alex, you see them,

you see him in all the meetings.

913

:

He has a podcast, you can listen to it.

914

:

And every time you listen to one

episode, I'm going to send you like 20.

915

:

sets or something like this.

916

:

So he was listening and listening and

listening and I was sending the sets.

917

:

So this is how we get into that.

918

:

And at some point he had the feeling

like he knows enough about it and no,

919

:

it's just a normal part of his life.

920

:

Um, it's nothing special.

921

:

Scott: Well, , the fact that all

the trust that you guys were talking

922

:

about earlier in this conversation

allowed you to have that conversation

923

:

to say, here's what I see going on

with the government and the money.

924

:

And if he didn't have that trust in

you, you could say the same exact thing.

925

:

It'd be very difficult

to, to get him to open up.

926

:

I would think it would be more,

you know, more, more challenging.

927

:

All right, Alex , let's get

into like, what are you doing?

928

:

Because I know I, it, it doesn't sound

like there's a lot of Bitcoiners near

929

:

you and you have your own podcast.

930

:

So let's just, let's, let's talk

about all the things that you're into.

931

:

And then of course we'll put in the

show notes, links to your, your stuff.

932

:

But um, you don't seem like the

type of person who's just going

933

:

to sit there and do nothing.

934

:

So what are you up to?

935

:

What are you up to?

936

:

Alex: I wish I could just

sit down and do nothing.

937

:

Uh, I try to, I try to some,

sometimes it's like 10 minutes,

938

:

but yeah, so I do have my own

podcast, white life unschooling,

939

:

and it started because I had this.

940

:

Yeah, voice in the back of my head,

like you need to talk about that with

941

:

other people, you need to record that.

942

:

And actually, I didn't really know if

this was a good idea, but I just did it.

943

:

So and turned out, okay, this was the best

idea, because it deepened my knowledge, it

944

:

deepened my security about what I'm doing.

945

:

And this is basically what

I'm, yeah, working on.

946

:

And I want people to see the whole

picture of what we are doing, because

947

:

One thing is decentralized money and

one thing is decentralized education

948

:

and what does that have to do with

the other thing and why do we need

949

:

to combine this and this is all about

what I'm talking about in this podcast.

950

:

So I'm inviting Bitcoiners, I'm inviting

homeschooling Bitcoiners, unschooling

951

:

Bitcoiners, just unschoolers, just

homeschoolers and I try to show a very

952

:

different facet of the whole thing.

953

:

in every episode, because I

think the most interesting

954

:

people out there are Bitcoiners.

955

:

I don't necessarily need to talk to,

uh, about Bitcoin with them because

956

:

I already know, I mean, you know, but

to talk with them about other stuff,

957

:

it's like eyeopening most of the times.

958

:

And, um, Yeah, I, I just try to bring

back the spiritual side of money and

959

:

education as well because I think we're

soul beings and I want people to, to

960

:

be confident enough to see that in

themselves and in their kids as well.

961

:

Scott: So, so based on that.

962

:

I mean, our, our audience, we're assuming

is people, um, young parents or soon to

963

:

be parents that want to homeschool or

they, they have their kids and they're

964

:

trying to figure out what else they can

do, even if their kids are in a public

965

:

school or some other circumstance.

966

:

Any particular resources

that you love to recommend?

967

:

I think you mentioned one earlier,

um, I wrote it down, the West River.

968

:

One, any, any other thing like that or

any other last pieces of advice that

969

:

you'd like to, to give someone who is

early, early in their journey, or maybe

970

:

hasn't even taken that first step?

971

:

What would you, uh, what

would you say to them?

972

:

Alex: reach out, reach out to other

unschooling moms that are already a

973

:

little bit more down the road, because,

um, having someone to talk to is gold.

974

:

It's just gold.

975

:

And, um, care if it's listening,

reading videos, but there is

976

:

so much nice stuff out there.

977

:

Peter Gray, Pat Ferenga, there are so

many cool dudes out there that are already

978

:

Like into that way more than I am and

that are providing so many great ideas

979

:

and that are really Yeah, for me it was

like a tranquilizer, to be honest, I was

980

:

reading books by Peter Gray and I was,

after every book I was like, thank God I'm

981

:

doing things right, thank God, because it

was just my intuition, but, um, the very

982

:

Or for me, the most important thing was

letting go of my fear and programming.

983

:

I mean, to de school yourself properly

is I think the most important thing.

984

:

And, uh, the biggest work

you are doing is on yourself.

985

:

It's not, uh, with or on your kid.

986

:

It's actually with yourself.

987

:

So meditate, do yoga, go

running, do all of that things.

988

:

care for yourself as a human being,

um, love yourself deeply and do this,

989

:

do these things like self discovery.

990

:

And I think this is the way to go because

the more you love yourself and the more

991

:

you trust yourself, the better it is for

your kid, because you can give that to

992

:

your kid only if you do it for yourself.

993

:

So de schooling and getting

in contact with others.

994

:

Through reading, talking, everything.

995

:

I think this is super important.

996

:

Scott: I love it.

997

:

I.

998

:

I hope someday we could meet

in person, uh, maybe you and

999

:

Tali can meet at the retreat.

:

00:55:50,303 --> 00:55:53,133

You guys can talk about the

women's retreat and do that, or

:

00:55:53,133 --> 00:55:55,353

you can have one in Canary Islands.

:

00:55:55,353 --> 00:55:57,373

That would be kind of sounds

like a nice thing to do.

:

00:55:57,873 --> 00:55:58,233

She might.

:

00:55:58,893 --> 00:56:03,143

But, uh, listen, this has been so

wonderful to sit down with you, um,

:

00:56:03,383 --> 00:56:05,584

and get to know you, you better.

:

00:56:05,584 --> 00:56:09,838

And any final thoughts, Tali?

:

00:56:10,513 --> 00:56:12,363

Tali: I'm sitting here all like relaxed.

:

00:56:12,373 --> 00:56:17,763

Um, yeah, I just want to reiterate

what Alex said, which is as a parent,

:

00:56:17,793 --> 00:56:20,933

I feel like especially if you're

a young parent, you're so focused

:

00:56:20,933 --> 00:56:24,123

on what Should I do for my kids?

:

00:56:24,323 --> 00:56:26,373

What must I do for my kids?

:

00:56:26,383 --> 00:56:28,213

And you forget to fill your own cup.

:

00:56:28,603 --> 00:56:31,603

And that is so important because

you cannot give them what

:

00:56:31,603 --> 00:56:32,773

you don't have for yourself.

:

00:56:33,053 --> 00:56:37,763

You cannot teach them respect if you

do not have respect for yourself.

:

00:56:37,773 --> 00:56:40,763

First, you're going to teach

them to be loving human beings

:

00:56:40,763 --> 00:56:42,183

if you don't first love yourself.

:

00:56:42,543 --> 00:56:45,533

So absolutely self work trumps everything.

:

00:56:45,683 --> 00:56:49,063

Well, self work and your

relationship with your children.

:

00:56:49,093 --> 00:56:52,443

I think those two things

come first and then.

:

00:56:52,833 --> 00:56:57,303

The academic stuff, the curriculum,

the whatever they end up learning

:

00:56:57,303 --> 00:57:01,483

skill wise, that's secondary and

that will come one way or another.

:

00:57:01,913 --> 00:57:02,083

Scott: So.

:

00:57:02,858 --> 00:57:03,238

Alex: true

:

00:57:05,243 --> 00:57:06,033

Scott: Thanks everybody.

:

00:57:06,063 --> 00:57:07,223

We'll catch you next week.

:

00:57:07,523 --> 00:57:07,743

Bye.

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