Shownotes
State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee sit down with Grant from Mantis, a firearms training company that uses technology to help shooters get better. Grant explains the core idea behind the products: assess your trigger press, tell you what you're doing wrong, and tell you how to fix it, all to improve marksmanship and gun handling. Safety comes first and effectiveness second. He walks through the lineup on the table, including the Blackbeard, an X10 that drops into your AR as a bolt carrier group and charging handle so your own rifle becomes the training tool. It resets your trigger, sends a laser downrange, and gives feedback on your trigger press. A dedicated training gun and a 3D-printed pistol prototype with a realistic Legion-style trigger round out the demo.
The conversation digs into why dry fire with feedback matters. Grant compares it to the jump from film photography to digital: you can now see what you did wrong and fix the root of the problem instead of compensating for it. He's clear that Mantis does not replace live fire or simunitions, and he encourages people to train with a qualified instructor. The tools save ammo and range time and let shooters work on fundamentals like grip, sight picture, and trigger press before they ever load a round. He covers what's coming next, including augmented reality that scans up to 10,000 square feet of a space and drops in targets, heart-rate monitors, shock pads, and a physical device for round count that would open up mag changes and more dynamic drills.
The back half turns personal and political. Grant is originally from Regina, Saskatchewan, and is now an American citizen. He talks about Canada banning AR-style rifles using an event where, he says, no ARs were used and none of the firearms involved were legally obtained. That experience is a big part of why he supports the Second Amendment. He and the hosts discuss the leaderboards and community Mantis builds, float the idea of a GOA group, and talk about how working in the firearms industry can get you treated differently or quietly pushed out of other fields. Grant left the high-end spa business at the peak of his career to chase work he loves, and his advice to anyone weighing a similar leap is simple: it's scary, but it's worth it. The episode wraps with details on finding Mantis at GOALS, booth 900.
Links
Questions this episode answers
What does Mantis do, and what is its core training philosophy?
Mantis is a firearms training company that uses technology to help shooters improve their marksmanship and gun handling. It assesses your trigger press, tells you what you're doing wrong, and shows you how to fix it, with safety first and effectiveness second.
How does the Mantis Blackbeard work, and what's the advantage of swapping in your own bolt carrier group?
The Blackbeard is an X10 that drops into your AR in place of the bolt carrier group and charging handle, so your own rifle becomes the training tool. It resets your trigger, sends a laser downrange, and gives feedback on your trigger press.
Does dry-fire training with Mantis replace live fire or simunitions?
No. Grant is clear that Mantis does not replace live fire or simunitions and encourages training with a qualified instructor. The tools save ammo and range time by letting shooters work on grip, sight picture, and trigger press before loading a round.
What is Mantis building next, beyond augmented reality, like round count and dynamic drills?
Grant describes a physical round-count device that would open up mag changes and more dynamic drills, plus heart-rate monitors and shock pads. The augmented reality system scans up to 10,000 square feet of a space and drops in targets.
Why did Grant leave the high-end spa industry to join the firearms space?
Grant left the high-end spa business at the peak of his career to chase work he loves. His advice to anyone weighing a similar leap is that it's scary, but it's worth it.
How did Canada's firearms laws shape Grant's view of the Second Amendment?
Grant, originally from Regina, Saskatchewan and now an American citizen, points to Canada banning AR-style rifles over an event where, he says, no ARs were used and none of the firearms involved were legally obtained. That experience is a big part of why he supports the Second Amendment.
How do Mantis leaderboards help build training and community?
Mantis builds leaderboards and community around its training, and Grant and the hosts float the idea of a Gun Owners of America group. The whole goal is to motivate people to practice.
Where can you find Mantis at GOALS?
Grant points listeners to Mantis at the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS), booth 900.
Chapters
- 00:13 — Rapid fire questions with Grant
- 02:26 — What Mantis is and how Grant joined
- 05:24 — The Blackbeard for your AR
- 06:55 — Safety advantages over regular dry fire
- 09:24 — The dedicated training gun demo
- 12:12 — Designed for every level of shooter
- 13:43 — Saving range time and money
- 17:10 — What's next: augmented reality
- 23:14 — Round count and dynamic training
- 26:34 — Leaderboards and building community
- 30:53 — Soapbox: train more, polish less
- 33:45 — Canada, gun bans, and the Second Amendment
- 40:34 — Getting blackballed and taking the leap
- 45:34 — Find Mantis at GOALS booth 900
About the guest
Grant works for Mantis, a firearms training company that uses technology to help people train and improve their marksmanship and gun handling. He was a Mantis customer before he joined the company. He came from running very high-end spas and was at the pinnacle of that career before switching industries. He is originally from Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada, and is now an American citizen. He is left-handed and has an 11-year-old daughter. His company role/title was not stated in this episode [VERIFY].
Key quotes
"Mantis is a firearms training company and it's at its core we just use technology to help people train to get better." — Grant
"So safety first and effectiveness second, I guess would be our thing." — Grant
"We do not replace that, nor do we replace live fire. We encourage people to do both, but we don't want you to waste your time either." — Grant
"We want to get to the root of the problem, fix it and help you succeed." — Grant
"It is one of the greatest training tools I've ever played with." — John
"It's scary, but it's worth it. It's just that simple." — Grant
"Our whole goal is to help people practice, to motivate people to practice." — Grant
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the Second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Grant from Mantis.
Speaker B:How are you, my friend?
Speaker C:I'm excellent, thank you.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me.
Speaker B:Well, we appreciate you coming out.
Speaker B:We've got some cool toys here that we'll get into in a little bit.
Speaker B:But let's start off with our Rapid Fire question segment.
Speaker B:We're going to ask you five questions to answer them for us.
Speaker B:First one is, what is your go to edc?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:This is a tough one because I'm in the process of trying to switch and it's difficult, but a VP9 is my.
Speaker C:Is my go to.
Speaker C:But I'm working with a shadow systems M920 right now because we are working on a product that's going to reset the trigger for you in your Glock.
Speaker C:So that's.
Speaker C:It's a Blackbeard for pistols.
Speaker C:And we don't have one for the VP9 yet, but we've got one working ready for the Glock.
Speaker C:So I'm trying to get better at shooting my Glock.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker C:Is that a good question or a good answer?
Speaker B:I mean, it's a great answer.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:But if I had to choose one to pick up and actually defend myself, It'd be my VP9.
Speaker A:What is your latest impulse buy?
Speaker C:I'm not an impulse buy guy.
Speaker C:I just.
Speaker C:I really did.
Speaker A:You being fiscally responsible?
Speaker C:No, I just overthink everything.
Speaker C:I think is more the problem.
Speaker C:Yeah, I. I don't.
Speaker C:I'll leave that to my wife.
Speaker C:So, yeah, that's a terrible answer, but that's it.
Speaker B:If you're going hunting, what's your go to?
Speaker C:Caliber 308?
Speaker A:Are you more likely to watch content creators in the firearms space on Instagram or YouTube?
Speaker C:YouTube, yeah.
Speaker C:I'm glad you didn't say the other one.
Speaker C:My daughter's 11, and whenever she talks about anything, we say, oh, you got that off the Tic Tacs.
Speaker C:And it drives her insane, which I just love doing.
Speaker A:But if you could go back and change one thing in history, would you?
Speaker C:Oh, boy.
Speaker C:I've actually wrestled with this.
Speaker C:I don't know why, but I've overthought this.
Speaker C:And I think that I would tend to think I'm doing something great and it would make things worse.
Speaker C:So I don't think I would do anything to change anything.
Speaker B:Butterfly effect.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It makes me really nervous.
Speaker C:Even though it's not real, but it does make me nervous.
Speaker B:Well, that wraps up rapid fire.
Speaker B:Let's go kind of go into how you got at Manis, you know, what do you guys do, all that fun stuff.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:So Mantis is a firearms training company and it's at its core we just use technology to help people train to get better.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So fundamentally our core products are going to assess trigger press, tell you what you're doing wrong with your press, tell you how to get better at it, and use that to improve overall marksmanship and gun handling.
Speaker C:So safety first and effectiveness second, I guess would be our thing.
Speaker B:If you don't work in the gun industry, you've never played with it as much, but if you work in the gun industry.
Speaker B:We had office pools with our Mantises at Faxon where we'd sit there and dry fire practice all day and like, see who could outdo each other.
Speaker B:It is one of the greatest training tools I've ever played with.
Speaker B:Like, I have put it on everything to dry fire practice.
Speaker C:Awesome.
Speaker B:So I can't remember which one.
Speaker B:It's the little.
Speaker B:The X10.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:X10 Elite.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:You know, it's funny, I was a customer before I ever started working for the company and I tried all the stuff out there before and whenever someone says, oh yeah, I've heard them or, but they haven't actually tried it, I'm like, give it a try.
Speaker C:Like, just because it is one of those things where you have to experience it to understand what it's capable of and most people just barely scratch the surface of what it can do.
Speaker C:But yeah, so I bought one, this was just before COVID and I was practicing with it a lot.
Speaker C:And when I reached out to the company, the first thing that Alpha Landingham, who was the director of sales at the time, asked me was, what's your username?
Speaker C:Because he wanted to see how I'd been using it.
Speaker C:He wanted to see my score, he wanted to see my progression and he wanted to see basically that I was using it every day and that I was doing well with it.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And I was fortunately all.
Speaker C:I checked all those boxes.
Speaker C:So he's like, okay, now we can talk.
Speaker C:And that was like, that was probably half of my interview.
Speaker C:So that was, that was interesting because I, I came from a completely different field and I didn't know that I would be even considered because I used to run high end spas, which most people just don't.
Speaker C:Wouldn't guess.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so it's a, it was a pretty big switch.
Speaker C:I actually was nervous about changing my LinkedIn profile for a long time because once I Announced that I knew I was going to like, that's it.
Speaker C:You're kind of blackballed from that whole industry.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I was kind of at the pinnacle of it.
Speaker C:So I ran very, very high end spas in Cala.
Speaker B:So yeah, that was one thing that I really liked about the Mantis product is being able to do all that and keeping your score and, and competing with each other.
Speaker B:But you brought some stuff with you.
Speaker C:I did.
Speaker B:Let's go ahead.
Speaker B:So we have the Blackbeard.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:So Blackbeard is our X10 that resets your trigger for you in your AR.
Speaker C:So it's a drop in bolt carrier group and charging handle.
Speaker C:So a 30 second swap out and your rifle becomes your training tool.
Speaker C:It's going to be your weight break and reset of your trigger in your rifle, your optics, it's your furniture.
Speaker C:You're training with your gun.
Speaker C:So we always want, whenever possible, to use as much of your own equipment as possible.
Speaker C:So we don't, we prefer not to use facsimiles or, or training things.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:That being said, there's a need for them in, in certain situations, like maybe you're not allowed to have any live fire weapons in a, in an area or you can't check them out of the armory or whatever it happens to be.
Speaker C:So we have developed a training gun as well.
Speaker C:But this one, if I press the trigger, it's going to reset and it's going to send a laser down range and it's going to give you feedback on your trigger rest.
Speaker C:So it's going to tell you what you did wrong and then we can interpret that and give you feedback on how to fix it.
Speaker C:So that's it in a nutshell.
Speaker C:This one can also do dynamic drills, so multiple shots on multiple targets.
Speaker C:So we can measure, delay time on target over travel the most efficient path between targets and give you feedback on the dynamic side of shooting as well.
Speaker C:So basically anything you could previously only do live fire, now you can get feedback on it in dry fire as well.
Speaker C:So if you're clearing your house or clearing a building or working on your favorite dynamic drill, whether it's a box drill or a V drill or 1 to 5, whatever it is, we can do it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And what's for the audience who don't know what's the advantage of swapping out your bolt carrier group for a black beard?
Speaker B:What's the, what's the additional safety and all that other stuff that comes with being able to do it with, with a laser over regular dry fire?
Speaker C:Got It.
Speaker C:So a couple of things.
Speaker C:One, just knowing that it's.
Speaker C:You see this red, it's all plastic.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So you know, when you're familiar with the system, you know that this is an inert firearm.
Speaker C:So it's completely safe.
Speaker C:So this can be used in environments where you may not otherwise been able to do sim rounds or something else.
Speaker C:So the, the closest thing before this was basically simunitions.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Which is still fantastic.
Speaker C:And we do not replace that, nor do we replace live fire.
Speaker C:We encourage people to do both, but we don't want you to waste your time either.
Speaker C:So we want you to have the best results when you get to that point as possible.
Speaker C:So with this, let's say you're doing a class of complete novices that have never handled a firearm before.
Speaker C:We can see that they're going to be safe, they're going to be effective, we can see that their weapon handling is going to be proper, that they're not sweeping their partners or people in the class or whatever.
Speaker C:Because you can turn the laser on full time as well.
Speaker C:So you can see where the barrel's being pointed at all times.
Speaker C:So there's a number of advantages to training that way before you go live fire, then all you have to do after you get all those points kind of taken care of is take care of recoil management.
Speaker C:So yeah.
Speaker B:Now this may be a, a really dumb question.
Speaker C:I doubt it.
Speaker B:But are there people who use this like laser tag?
Speaker B:Is this is something because you're saying it's replacing simunitions and things like that?
Speaker C:Well, not replacing, but enhancing.
Speaker B:Enhancing.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:So you can use it with force on force as long as you wear laser safe classes.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:We don't currently have a system that will pick up where the laser's hitting.
Speaker C:So we.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:It's on our system basically.
Speaker C:But we can work with systems that do do that and we can incorporate our technology into those systems.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But we don't build one currently.
Speaker B:I know that was a weird question.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:That's the first thing that came up.
Speaker C:I mean a lot of people want to do laser tag with it, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But most of those systems actually use a radio cone and the laser is just for you to see where you hit.
Speaker C:But the, the hit boxes are too small for a laser typically.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then you have this here.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do we got here?
Speaker C:So this is a 3D print printed version of something that we're working on.
Speaker C:This is our dedicated training gun.
Speaker C:So this is a Titan x in a 320 style and it's going to have a real realistic trigger.
Speaker C:So this is from a Legion trigger.
Speaker C:So if you want to try that, you're welcome to.
Speaker C:And then that's going to pick up everything that's happening.
Speaker C:Let me reset that for you.
Speaker C:Well, we can do the, the, the screen grab later.
Speaker C:But is it, is the blue light on?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay, so yeah, should be good to go.
Speaker C:I guess I could just hold this up like that.
Speaker C:That's going to.
Speaker C:Good shooting.
Speaker B:Well, I'm winning.
Speaker C:So you can set that tone to be you've heard something that went ding and something that went.
Speaker C:You can set that at whatever score you want so that you don't have to look at the screen, but you can also have it announce the score.
Speaker C:There's a number of different ways to do it.
Speaker C:But then when you press, if you just tap any of those red areas for me, it'll tell you what you're doing wrong.
Speaker C:And then we can give you corrective action that you can take.
Speaker B:It's so cool.
Speaker C:So this one will.
Speaker C:We can give you the same information with the Blackbeard and we can give you the same information with our X10 on your gun.
Speaker C:So whether it's live fire or dry fire, you get that same type of feedback.
Speaker B:And would this be available in.
Speaker B:To go just into regular pistols or is it a separate.
Speaker C:That one in particular, the one that you just tried, that is a dedicated training gun.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But it's got an optic slide, so it's ready for an RMR or RSR type optic.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:Again, the trigger is as close as you can get to the, to the original trigger that it's replicating.
Speaker C:So we've got this fancy machine that measures trigger press and like the creep is the same, the break is the same, the reset's the same.
Speaker C:It's really remarkable what, what we can do.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And then we are working on a blank black beard for your pistol as well.
Speaker C:That should be ready around shot show.
Speaker B:So that's super exciting.
Speaker C:Yeah, that one is probably the one everyone's the most excited about.
Speaker B:So do you want to ask a question before I keep this?
Speaker B:I'm really excited about this, as you can't tell.
Speaker A:No, I, I think that this is awesome.
Speaker A:So I guess my initial question is, you know, I know a lot of experienced shooters that love your product and I know some people who have just kind of got started into the firearms, you know, community also loving your product.
Speaker A:When you guys set out to design this, who did you have in mind?
Speaker A:Was it the competition?
Speaker A:Shooter or the new gun owner.
Speaker A:And how have you kind of managed to get one product that everyone seems to really love and enjoy?
Speaker C:That's a great question.
Speaker C:So originally it was built for ourselves.
Speaker C:So the owners of the company were shooters that were also tech savvy and they felt like there's got to be a way to get some data on these errors that everyone's making.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So up until then it was either high speed cameras or an instructor watching you really close or looking at what happened on the paper.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then figuring out what happened from there.
Speaker C:So I keep touching the mic so what they did and it's kind of cool.
Speaker C:I got an image that I can share with you later.
Speaker C:Austin who's the CEO of the company, his avatar on our Slack channel is a picture of a Glock with a bunch of rubber bands and an old Samsung phone strapped to it.
Speaker C:So they use the accelerometer from the phone and they built the software and that was a proof of concept.
Speaker C:So then they were able to build the hardware to go with it.
Speaker C:And then to folk, to answer your question, it was really from the origin designed to try to help all shooters.
Speaker C:So whatever your level of shooting, it's capable of helping you like it's capable of recording data in such a minute way that everyone can use it.
Speaker C:So yeah.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:You know we live in a society that is, is driven by the, you know, the almighty dollar.
Speaker A:So one of the think is really cool is for people who can't afford to go to the range all the time.
Speaker A:Whether that is a time restraint or just the fact that costs a lot of money.
Speaker A:You know, myself included.
Speaker A:I wish I, I could go to the range every day but that's not the life I'm able to live.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:It, it is such a great tool to be able to be able to practice and get information to make you better.
Speaker A:With kind of only an initial investment versus you know, actual range time.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Buy once, cry once.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So that's.
Speaker C:And we, and hopefully that cost point we've got something that fits everyone's needs.
Speaker C:You know, that's, that's our goal as well.
Speaker C:But I used to go to the range more than I do now.
Speaker C:They, they say if you want to not shoot, get into the industry.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like that's kind of feels like what it's like.
Speaker C:But I used to go to the range quite a bit more and my first target was always a throwaway like you'd you get there and I'm left handed so my, I tended to be low.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And I would kind of make my group and then make it smaller and then try to move it where I wanted it to be.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then get rid of that target.
Speaker C:And now I'm.
Speaker C:Now I'm on paper where I want to be, and now I'm going to shoot.
Speaker C:I know I can't be the only person that did that.
Speaker C:I think there's probably a few of us out there.
Speaker C:So when I got the X10, I was like, oh, that's what I'm doing.
Speaker C:Even though I'd probably been told that a dozen times by a dozen different instructors.
Speaker C:But it really made more sense to me when I could see the trace of what I did wrong with my finger and it fixed it.
Speaker C:I was like, oh, okay, this.
Speaker C:I'm on this.
Speaker C:This is pretty cool.
Speaker C:Because the next time I went to the range, my first shot, my last shot went.
Speaker C:Went pretty much where I wanted them to go.
Speaker C:So then I could work on things like transitions and speed and.
Speaker C:And, you know, holster to first shot, draw the first shot and stuff like that.
Speaker C:That I couldn't do dry fire very well.
Speaker C:I could.
Speaker C:I could spend my time more value more effectively, you know, so I wasn't wasting rounds and I wasn't wasting time at the range.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's a.
Speaker B:That's the big thing that I learned when messing with the Manus is that I was able to focus on more things and.
Speaker B:And get ready to go to the range a lot easier.
Speaker B:The only complaint I had about the X10 is when I would rack the slide, sometimes it would trigger it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So there's.
Speaker C:There's some sensitivity settings that you can adjust to get rid of that.
Speaker C:And then we've actually, since then, developed some custom algorithms that pick up the way that you use it.
Speaker C:And it'll tend to ignore those things, but, yeah, every once in a while, you can get a false positive.
Speaker B:Overall, it's like one of my favorite things to do is just mess with the mana, since check my score.
Speaker C:When we're on a call, you have to mute yourself, because otherwise it's like everyone's doing it.
Speaker B:May have muted myself in a few of our calls for that reason.
Speaker B:Um, so you guys are working on the dedicated pistol.
Speaker B:We have the black beard.
Speaker B:We were talking about some stuff downstairs.
Speaker B:So what.
Speaker B:What is the next big step besides, you know, everything else that we've already talked about?
Speaker C:So probably the biggest one is augmented reality.
Speaker C:So that's something that we're working on.
Speaker C:We have it actually built out and ready to Go depending on what the client's needs are.
Speaker C:But you can scan up to 10,000 square feet of a physical space and then drop in bad guys or drop in anything you want basically.
Speaker C:So we can build it to, to your needs.
Speaker C:So it could be a video game style where it's aliens, or it could be realistic with bad guys that are equipped to your spec sort of thing.
Speaker C:And we can also dial up or down the aggression.
Speaker C:So let's say, let's say you're clearing your house, right?
Speaker C:Someone breaks in your door and you're clearing.
Speaker C:Your job is now to clear the house.
Speaker C:We could have it so that when you take a shot, they cower, they, they take off.
Speaker C:Or we could have it so that, that makes them more aggressive and they now come towards the shot or what Any, any variation of that.
Speaker C:So some of them could be doing that, some that could be that doing the other.
Speaker C:Any number of, of hostiles.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's, it's pretty cool.
Speaker C:Your heart rate.
Speaker C:We put heart rate monitors on people when they use it and it's amazing how, even though it's a completely safe environment, how high your heart rate can get.
Speaker C:And then we can also do shock pads and stuff with it.
Speaker C:So when you get hit, there's a repercussion.
Speaker B:So I, I don't want to get hit.
Speaker C:It's, it's, it's humbling.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I know that's, it's not going to be for everybody.
Speaker B:It's, it's very expensive to get into.
Speaker B:Who, what kind of people would get into it?
Speaker B:We're talking like ranges, retailers, things like that.
Speaker C:So the, yeah, the, the right now it's, it's, it is pretty pricey.
Speaker C:It's like starts at $10,000, but depending for what it does, that's actually really affordable compared to other people in the space.
Speaker C:And it's also very small and compact and it doesn't take up a lot like it, it doesn't affect your kit, you know what I mean?
Speaker C:Like it's, it built disappears basically.
Speaker C:But right now it's, it's some government contracts and some private entities are interested as well.
Speaker C:Just have to build it the way they want and once that's done, we're good to go.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:One of the things that I wanted to touch on that you mentioned earlier is the impact people have when they actually get to use the system.
Speaker A:That really can't be conveyed when you're just simply talking about it.
Speaker A:And I think we saw that firsthand at goals, your alls Booth was covered with people trying out the system.
Speaker A:How valuable is it for people who maybe have your system to, you know, invite their friends over for a friendly competition and kind of create their own social circles around this product and share it with their immediate friends or family?
Speaker C:I think it's a, I think it's really fantastic because you can, you can have leaderboards and you can have groups of people that are either private or public so they can see how each other is doing.
Speaker C:So you can motivate each other to keep practicing.
Speaker C:Our whole goal is to help people practice, to motivate people to practice.
Speaker C:So we're not anybody that any way that you do that is fantastic in our minds.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So if our products do help people to train more and become more proficient with the tool, then we're happy.
Speaker C:So yeah.
Speaker C:Did I answer your question?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:But also just to see people improve so they can take a problem that they might have had for a very long time.
Speaker C:And because the analytics are so precise, zone in on it and make a correction and then see the result of that immediately.
Speaker C:I compare it to.
Speaker C:I used to do film photography and in the old days, you would take a picture and if you were really diligent, you write down notes about what the conditions were.
Speaker C:Like all the, you know, your F stops and your, and your exposure time and all of that stuff was put in your notes.
Speaker C:Then you'd develop it and then you'd look at your notes when you got the pictures back and they were horrible.
Speaker C:And you'd try to figure out what you're doing and then try to reproduce that and fix it next time.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:It was, it.
Speaker C:There was a reason not many people did well with, with film photography.
Speaker C:Digital came along and you could take a picture.
Speaker C:Oh, I don't like that.
Speaker C:I just make a couple of adjustments and wow, that's what I was looking for right now.
Speaker C:And your results just went like this.
Speaker C:It's the same thing with this.
Speaker C:Like you can do dry fire at home until you're blue in the face and then you could still be doing the same thing.
Speaker C:Wrong.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Or with laser based system, even though we make one, it's fantastic.
Speaker C:You could be doing the same thing that you're doing live fire and just compensating for it and not fixing the problem.
Speaker C:We want to get to the root of the problem, fix it and help you succeed.
Speaker B:That's, that's why I love Mantis.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:It's just, it's one of the best training tools out there.
Speaker B:Like, if you don't have one, get one.
Speaker B:I'm selling his product for him.
Speaker B:But if you don't have one, get one.
Speaker B:I highly recommend it.
Speaker B:I know it can be, it seems like a taunting price tag at first, but the amount of ammo you will save and the amount of like training and learning that you'll get so quickly, it is worth every single penny you're going to spend on it.
Speaker C:I have to agree, but I'm a little bit biased.
Speaker A:So I do want to ask, you know, with this technology rapidly changing, just like all technology is, where do you see the end, you know, beyond the augmented reality?
Speaker A:Like, where do you see innovation go in the next five, ten years?
Speaker C:You know, it's.
Speaker C:That's a really good question, which usually means I don't have a great answer.
Speaker C:But we do.
Speaker C:Every week we have a, a lunch, which is just an ideal lunch.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Anybody has any idea, there's no stupid ideas.
Speaker C:Bring it to the table and we'll see what we can do with it.
Speaker C:And some of the stuff that gets thrown out there is really cool, you know, really interesting and really cool.
Speaker C:I, I think there's going to be a, a lot, I hate using the term AI, but there's going to be a lot more interactive feedback as opposed to just rote feedback.
Speaker C:So it'll be more dynamic, it'll give us more feedback on, like in a live fire situation, on a lot more aspects of what was happening in that scenario.
Speaker C:And I think the ability to record in three dimensions and analyze that will be, will be useful as well.
Speaker C:So that's, that's probably the first part of it that we see coming.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah,.
Speaker B:I'm just excited he's here.
Speaker B:I could go on and talk about all this stuff for another 10 minutes if you want, but go for it.
Speaker B:Well, I, I just think, like, the next question I really have for you is as time goes on in the dry fire stuff, we see the cert pistol.
Speaker B:Here we've got the Blackbeard.
Speaker B:Is there a way to incorporate a round count so you can start doing mag changes and things like that?
Speaker B:Is that something that we can see in the future or something we can do?
Speaker C:Round count is something that is being worked on.
Speaker C:So Currently with an X10, you can do a round count.
Speaker C:It's still picking up vibrations, so we're still picking up the vibration of the trigger press.
Speaker C:So it's not always 100% perfect, but it's pretty close.
Speaker C:But we are working on a physical device that will do a round count.
Speaker B:Yeah, that would be A game changer being able to swap mags and do all that and can add additional kind of.
Speaker B:What are the word.
Speaker C:I'm looking for a more dynamic level of training.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:See, he knew what I was thinking without me even saying it.
Speaker C:Yeah, there's.
Speaker C:I mean, there, there are, there's absolutely some limitations, which is why we, we again say that we, we are there to support training as opposed to.
Speaker C:We're not.
Speaker C:Like, because the biggest probably negative feedback we get is, well, there's no recoil.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And we don't.
Speaker C:That's why you have to train.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So you still have to go and train and work on your recoil management.
Speaker C:But if you have a good trigger press, then really, if you have a good sight picture and you press and you have a good press, you're going to hit what you're aiming at.
Speaker C:So that's.
Speaker C:Those two go together really well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This doesn't substitute for live fire training, but it helps tremendously to learn.
Speaker B:It's all about the small techniques.
Speaker B:So you.
Speaker B:If you don't learn how to properly grip a pistol and then pull the trigger and sight picture and all that stuff, you're not going to have a good time learning all the small fundamentals and then putting them in and then knowing that you're good to go and then going out to the range and doing the live fire, then you can work on recoil mitigation and all that other stuff.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Exactly.
Speaker C:So, yeah, we.
Speaker C:Again, if it motivates you to train, we're happy.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's go back to the leaderboard because I know a lot of people are very competition heavy.
Speaker A:I know that at least in our house, that the civil sibling rivalry, man, English is hard.
Speaker A:Today is intense.
Speaker A:So how many people can be on a leaderboard?
Speaker A:How big can your competition circle be?
Speaker C:We've got some leaderboards that are hundreds every week.
Speaker C:I think they go into.
Speaker C:I don't know that there's an actual hard limit.
Speaker C:I don't know that we've ever reached the limit.
Speaker C:So I could find out from the engineers, but as far as I know there's.
Speaker C:We haven't maxed it out.
Speaker B:So I know we had.
Speaker A:I think we need one of those East coast versus West coast battles.
Speaker A:It's like the, the one man versus our 100 man versus a gorilla meme conversation that's going on right now.
Speaker A:I, I think that we need like some state by state rivalry.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:Who is that person that.
Speaker A:Oh, gosh, I sent it to you because it was talking about the regions of the United States if they were to fight each other.
Speaker B:I know who you're talking about.
Speaker A:And they said that the west coast was going to win.
Speaker A:I was like, absolutely not.
Speaker A:You've never been to Tennessee.
Speaker A:But I'm trying to think who that was.
Speaker B:If we did a competition in our office, I'd be the lone man standing by myself on the.
Speaker B:For the west coast.
Speaker B:And everybody else would be no there.
Speaker A:We have people on the West Coast.
Speaker A:We just primarily are on the coast.
Speaker C:That's not west coast, though.
Speaker B:That's not west.
Speaker B:It's the westest we've got.
Speaker B:Besides, we've got a couple people in California.
Speaker A:Is that like several people?
Speaker A:We have an entire sister organization in California.
Speaker A:I don't know what he's talking about.
Speaker A:All by himself.
Speaker A:He just wants that, you know, the world's smallest violin to be played.
Speaker B:I want to be the.
Speaker B:The gorilla against 100 people, I guess, which I don't know.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, if it stimulates training, we're happy.
Speaker C:So if that's what motivates people, we're happy about it.
Speaker C:You know, as long as it is fun.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I've seen some of the leaderboards.
Speaker B:So we had the one at Faxon that we used.
Speaker B:I know Michael Cox, who's been on the show with us, his old shop, he had a leaderboard there that was up constantly.
Speaker B:It's one of those things that what it really does is not only build training, but it also builds a community.
Speaker B:And that's something we're really big on, is that on ramp.
Speaker B:And that community that we're building, it builds a really cool community.
Speaker B:Because some of the people on these leaderboards you may not meet in person, but you're building a community.
Speaker B:You're competing against each other to get better.
Speaker B:So that's what's really cool about this is not only that it's a training aid, but you can also find other like minded people to help and keep you motivated.
Speaker C:We should do a GOA group.
Speaker C:Just as anyone that's in GOA or wants to be a part of it and just see.
Speaker B:Heck yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, that would be really cool.
Speaker C:So we'll build one for you guys.
Speaker C:That's easy.
Speaker B:Let's.
Speaker B:Let's goals at goals go to the madness booth.
Speaker B:Get on the GOA group and let's start seeing who's the best in goa.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that idea.
Speaker B:Battle Royale.
Speaker B:Winner takes all.
Speaker B:Winner gets a one on one combat the ATF by themselves.
Speaker A:I don't think that we're endorsing that.
Speaker B:Just kidding.
Speaker B:Please don't, don't.
Speaker A:No, but I think that would be really fun for our members to, to.
Speaker B:Have a leaderboard and I think so too.
Speaker B:So go to the Manus booth echoes stop by, see Grant and he will help you get set up on the, on that.
Speaker C:Yeah, anyone on the team can help you.
Speaker C:But yeah.
Speaker B:This is brought to you by Patriot Mobile.
Speaker B:Use Code GOA for one month free for freedom loving mobile service.
Speaker B:Patriot Mobile is a pro freedom Mobile carrier.
Speaker B:They use the same towers as the big brand and even to the point where if you have, you can switch between networks between AT&T and Verizon and all that just because Patriot Mobile does that for you.
Speaker B:So use code GOA for one month free at Patriot Mobile.
Speaker A:So it's time for my personal favorite segment of the show from the Soapbox where we dive into the spicier side of things.
Speaker A:Obviously Mantis is very data driven when it comes to, to shooting.
Speaker A:Has there ever been a time that you have seen someone teaching some firearms or maybe on YouTube showing something off on a firearm where you're just like, oh no, let me, let me help you with some cold hard facts or anything that really squirming hits a nerve.
Speaker C:We, we see it all the time.
Speaker C:Probably the, the thing that stands out the most is that some of the shows, this does not, not apply to anyone that's watching right now.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:This is other people.
Speaker C:But we see people that are very proudly open, caring and probably shouldn't be.
Speaker C:Like when we see the results of their score.
Speaker C:Oh well, I got every excuse under the sun.
Speaker C:But sometimes some of the guys that are the most excited about being able to open, carry or should spend a little bit more time training and a little bit less time polishing their revolver.
Speaker B:Did I.
Speaker C:That's as this is politically correct as I can make it.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't disagree with that statement whatsoever.
Speaker B:I've seen some things, I've known some people.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'll leave it at that.
Speaker B:I don't want to be too spicy.
Speaker C:Well, yeah, whether it's gun handling safety, you know, like all the, all the things that need to be trained.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I understand like YouTube videos are out there to help you and get you go and that is a good baseline depending on who you watch.
Speaker B:Don't watch the guy.
Speaker B:I know, I hope he's.
Speaker B:I know he's no longer around.
Speaker B:Do you remember the.
Speaker B:I don't want to say his name out loud, but do you remember the guy who was teaching classes and just flagged all his circle invention.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:Be careful of who you watch.
Speaker B:And YouTube content is great to learn and get a good knowledge base, but definitely get.
Speaker B:Get a Manus.
Speaker B:Also go get training with a.
Speaker B:With an instructor.
Speaker C:Qualified instructor.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:Like that.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:We're going to support what the instructor says as opposed to conflicting with them or being competitive with them.
Speaker C:It's an aid for the instructor.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And definitely when you do take a class and you use a manus and things like that, always go in with an open mind because you may be doing something wrong and the instructor might have something to teach you.
Speaker B:And then go back and try your mat and see how your score improves.
Speaker C:Yep, exactly.
Speaker C:I remember.
Speaker C:I don't know what made me think of this, but what my first.
Speaker C:I'm originally from Canada, but I didn't share that.
Speaker C:So we.
Speaker C:They took away the guns.
Speaker C:We can't have anything.
Speaker C:It's really kind of sucky out there right now.
Speaker C:What part of Canada originally.
Speaker C:And this is how it said, I'm from Regina, Saskatchewan.
Speaker C:So not Regina, it's Regina.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Just leave it at that.
Speaker A:Is this a part of Canada trying to, like, come over?
Speaker B:Was it that whole.
Speaker B:I think it's Alberta.
Speaker A:Alberta, yeah.
Speaker C:Alberta's Canada's, Texas.
Speaker C:It's kind of.
Speaker C:They kind of.
Speaker C:They do their own thing.
Speaker C:I don't want to offend anyone.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's fantastic.
Speaker C:I live there.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:I really enjoyed it.
Speaker C:But, like, part of the reason I'm such a two A supporter is because we don't have that.
Speaker C:They don't have that anymore.
Speaker A:Can.
Speaker C:I'm an American now.
Speaker C:American citizen now.
Speaker C:But the rights that they did have have been constantly whittled away and dialed back.
Speaker C:Like they.
Speaker C:The.
Speaker C:The government at the time when they banned ARS used an event that no ARS were used in.
Speaker C:None of the firearms that were used were legally obtained.
Speaker C:None of the firearms used were owned by people that had a right or the legal designation to carry them.
Speaker C:So they're all criminals already.
Speaker C:And all the guns that were used were already illegal, and yet they used that to ban ars.
Speaker C:And it's just, you know, that kind of stuff is scary.
Speaker C:It's really scary.
Speaker B:So I want to pick your brain because I understand a little bit of Canadian law.
Speaker B:I don't understand all of it.
Speaker B:I've had some.
Speaker B:One of the YouTubers that I've met is originally from Canada as well.
Speaker B:We kind of picked our brains about this recently, but so Canada when, when they banned everything?
Speaker B:Yeah, like the SKS was huge over there because you, it was stripper clip fed and it met the requirements.
Speaker B:The other thing is you Canada got some cool pistols that the US wasn't allowed to get.
Speaker B:They're from China.
Speaker B:There was some cool stuff that came out.
Speaker B:But I digress.
Speaker B:But the other thing that Canada did have that the US didn't have was it Backpacker shotguns were huge in Canada which are under the, which would be considered an SBS in the States.
Speaker B:So what.
Speaker B:Why did they not go after things like short barrel rifles and stuff but then go after like ARS and things like that?
Speaker C:Scary tactics.
Speaker C:I mean it was just, it wasn't practical or realistic.
Speaker C:If you're illegally allowed to own a firearm in, in Canada you were already under the microscope.
Speaker C:You could be pulled over at any time for any reason.
Speaker C:You, you give up your rights to, in order to own a firearm.
Speaker C:So it was, it's just other ways to, to freak people out.
Speaker C:And in my opinion, and there's some practical reasons for it like there's a lot of wilderness and there's a lot of areas where you need to be armed to protect yourself from wildlife.
Speaker C:And, and that's where why there was some leeway given for some of those firearms for a while at least now who knows now.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think they banned everything now.
Speaker C:It's, it's pretty bad.
Speaker C:It's pretty bad.
Speaker C:They, they canceled one of the biggest shows, Tacom this this summer.
Speaker C:They canceled it.
Speaker B:So that was Techcom.
Speaker B:Was the, wasn't that considered like the shot show of Canada or something?
Speaker C:Canada's version?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:It was a big show for Canada.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:No, it was huge.
Speaker B:When we were, we sent some guys when I was at fax in the one year because we were going through Rainier because they did a lot of imports into Canada.
Speaker B:It just, it blows my mind.
Speaker B:And this just proves why our constitution is placed that a place like Canada, which is just north of us was decently firearms friendly until recently.
Speaker B:And we've seen the tyranny that's happened up there to get all their rights taken away.
Speaker B:And we have our second amendment rights for that reason.
Speaker B:So we don't get, you know, they made it number two for a reason.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:When I first moved to the States it was funny because my buddies were like, do you get a gun yet?
Speaker C:No, I'm not legally allowed to get one.
Speaker C:But the moment I was legally allowed to get one.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think it was a week before I had my application in.
Speaker C:So yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I always find it very interesting and very humbling when people leave and become US Citizens from places where you're not allowed to have firearms because it seems like the zill you guys have to protect the Second Amendment is oftentimes greater than many of the U.S. citizens and even those that would consider themselves gun rights advocates or activists.
Speaker A:How, how did you feel like you kind of choose to share that with your children and, and instill a love of the Second amendment in them?
Speaker C:Yeah, so that's a, that's a good question.
Speaker C:And I get a lot, I get, not a lot, but I get some pushback from some of my friends because I, because I am a sporter.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because I, I believe in it.
Speaker C:And you know, when you, when tragedies happen, it's, it's a really tough conversation to have, you know, with, with loved ones and especially with my 11 year old daughter, you know, but there's a bigger piece at stake and that's, you know, the, the ability to just have something that is a constitutional right and that allows you to not just protect yourself, but exercise your rights.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:There's, there's, it's a component that if it were taken away and any of the other rights on the charter were taken away, it would free people out.
Speaker C:In this one, because it's contentious, people think it's fine to say it's, it's fine to reduce or diminish or impede that right.
Speaker C:And it's like, well, if you can do that with one of them, you can do it with any of them.
Speaker C:So it's a slippery slope.
Speaker C:How do I address that at home?
Speaker C:It's an open topic for discussion and it's something where I want her to be educated and to be able to make an informed decision regardless of which side of that topic she's on.
Speaker B:So yeah, I want to circle back to something that you said early on in the episode and that was about your LinkedIn profile.
Speaker B:It is one of those things where there's some people who work in the industry who keep it very quiet.
Speaker B:There's some people who make it very loud.
Speaker B:And you know, why do you think it is that you would get blackballed from a industry?
Speaker B:Because you're going to something that is a protected right to have in the.
Speaker C:U.S. it's just a, it's just a culture.
Speaker C:Like, I didn't talk about it while I worked in the industry.
Speaker C:I, I, I shot weekly.
Speaker C:I went, you know, that's what I did for training and record and recreation both.
Speaker C:But I never spoke about it and because I just knew it was a topic you didn't speak about.
Speaker C:It was just not something that, that would be well received and it would.
Speaker C:People would treat you differently.
Speaker C:So, so when I made that commitment to, to put it on LinkedIn, I was basically saying something where I, again, I was at the pinnacle of my career.
Speaker C:I was never going to go back to it.
Speaker C:I, I didn't have that option anymore, I don't think.
Speaker C:And based on the shift in the amount of headhunting requests that I get now, I think it was accurate.
Speaker C:So I don't miss it.
Speaker C:Every once in a while, I still do get an offer and I'll show it to my wife and she's like, you'll be miserable.
Speaker C:I'm like, I know, but what did you see so that you know that these are options.
Speaker C:That's the option.
Speaker C:But I'm so happy with not only the company, but the industry and getting to do what I love that I can't see myself ever going back.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's one thing that happens when you join the industry is you go from having a hobby to being part of it.
Speaker B:And it's just like, you do what you love and you don't want to get out of it.
Speaker B:It's just sad.
Speaker B:And even as somebody who's worked in this space for almost 13 years now, even when I look to get out of the space, at one point, I, I only made it out of the space for like, three months, and I came right back because you enjoy it so much and then you get miserable.
Speaker B:But also, at the same time, people were like, oh, you did this before you came here?
Speaker B:Or what did you do?
Speaker B:It's like, well, that's only a part of me as a human that shouldn't judge me as a human being because I, I use a constant, constitutionally protected.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker C:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:It's, it's, it is challenging.
Speaker C:And, and the way you navigate those questions and, and I, I think is, is telling of, of both sides of the party, you know, when, when you, when you have those conversations.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:I do think that it takes an insane amount of courage for someone to leave, you know, especially a field where you're at, you're at the peak.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And you have all these offers and then you, you go into something that you love and it's a passion project and I.
Speaker A:You're visibly excited about your product.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And what's to come?
Speaker A:How does it.
Speaker A:Like, I just, I get excited when I talk about the Second Amendment, you very clearly get excited about it as well, but you are on a completely different side of the equation than I am.
Speaker A:I love policy.
Speaker A:I've been a policy nerd for ever and ever.
Speaker A:But you guys are.
Speaker A:Your product is quite literally saving people's lives because of increasing their training and increasing the quality of their time on the range.
Speaker A:Because we discussed earlier, range time can be very expensive.
Speaker A:So how.
Speaker A:I guess what would be your advice to somebody who is maybe burnout in their career or wanting to go a different direction and looking to become that person in pursuit of their passion for the Second Amendment?
Speaker C:It's scary.
Speaker C:I mean, there's no question about it.
Speaker C:It's scary, but it's worth it.
Speaker C:It's just that simple.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's scary, but it's worth it.
Speaker C:Especially if you, if you've got a career path that you're excited about.
Speaker C:And that's, that's intriguing and interesting to you and, and, and that's fulfilling.
Speaker C:The only downside of it is my wife used to get a lot of really cool swag and now I have to buy face care products and stuff like that at overpriced.
Speaker C:And I get the swag now, which is, is nice.
Speaker C:But yeah, it's just sometimes you just got to take that leap of faith, I think.
Speaker C:I know I'm not giving great advice, but have a.
Speaker C:It's good to have a backup plan if you can, but we don't always, always have that option.
Speaker C:So just go full steam ahead and put your heart and soul into it.
Speaker C:And it usually pays off in dividends, so.
Speaker B:I couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:Well, Grant, we're coming up at our wrap up sign, so I really appreciate you being on.
Speaker B:Before we finish wrapping up, I want to tell you about our gift.
Speaker B:We have a gift for you from PSA and AAC Ammo.
Speaker B:They'll be sending that to you after the show.
Speaker B:So thank you, Palmetto State Army, AAC Ammo, for sponsoring our gifts for our guests for the season two.
Speaker B:Go ahead and shout out any socials anywhere anybody can find you.
Speaker B:I know you'll be at Goals, so definitely check out their booth at goals.
Speaker B:It is 900.
Speaker C:You know the goal, the booth number.
Speaker B:Yeah, 900.
Speaker C:Good for you.
Speaker C:I don't know the whole number, so thank you for that.
Speaker C:Booth.
Speaker B:900.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker C:But yeah, we, we, no matter what, where we're at, we're always going to have a dynamic booth.
Speaker C:We're always going to have something that you can do, hopefully learn or at least get bridging rights or something and and if not just stop by and say hi, we, we'd love to see you.
Speaker B:So yeah, walk into the door, hang a right, they're right there.
Speaker B:So when you come into goals they are front and center.
Speaker B:Go straight to them.
Speaker C:You'll see all the new stuff.
Speaker A:So yes, yeah, very cool.
Speaker A:Well again thank you so much for being here.
Speaker A:If you have not hit the like button, subscribe Bell Notification if you are listening on a podcast platform, please feel free to leave us a review.
Speaker A:It definitely helps us move up the algorithm.
Speaker A: ecured your tickets for goals: Speaker A:Go to gunowners.
Speaker A:Org Goals to secure your tickets today.
Speaker B:That is August 9th and 10th in beautiful Knoxville, Tennessee.
Speaker B:So make sure to do that and we will catch you guys on the next one.
