In our first segment, we talk with Aidan Hunt, Matthew Starner, and CJ Geluso about a "How to" for everyday disciples - how to pray in public without passing out. Speaking in public can be scary enough for most people but praying in public can be downright terrifying! We talk about some ways to approach praying out loud with your family or small group that can make it seem less scary.

In the second segment, Pastors Rob and Matthew continue their conversation from a previous episode about suffering - this time asking how we can walk alongside someone who is struggling and bring hope and comfort.

In the final segment, That's in the Bible?!, Aidan and Matthew talk about one of those strange stories in the Bible that we don't hear about in Sunday School or sermons much - Elisha and the bears.

Do you have something you'd like to hear us talk about or address? Let us know! Send us a message at media@stmatthewgr.com.

Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another

episode of everyday disciples. I'm Pastor Matthew Starner and

I'm so glad that you're here. You know, we've been so

encouraged by the response to our first couple of episodes.

When we started this experiment, we weren't even sure anyone

would listen. But the numbers keep going up. And we're already

amazed by the comments that we've gotten. Thanks for

listening. And we hope you continue to join us each week as

we strive to be everyday disciples. On today's episode, I

talk with Aiden hunt, and CJ Geluso. about a topic that

strikes fear in the hearts of so many Christians praying in

public, we'll talk about how to pray in public without passing

out and we'll see that you know, might not be quite as hard as we

make it seem. In the second segment, we continue a

conversation from our first episode with Pastor Rob Appold,

about suffering, this time talking about how we can come

alongside someone who's walking through a difficult time. And

lastly, Aiden hunt. And I take a look at one of those weird Bible

stories that you don't hear about in church or Sunday school

very often. All the lightshot and the bears. We've got some

great stuff ahead. Let's go.

Welcome back to the podcast. Once again, I'm Pastor Matthew

Starner and I'm joined again by Aiden hunt and CJ Geluso. And we

are here today on a segment we're calling how to, we decided

to call this one how to pray in public without passing out. So

oftentimes, as leaders in different ministries around here

we pray in public all the time, whether that's, like in worship

in small group settings, and meetings and youth group and

things like that. And I know for a lot of people, the idea of

praying in public just, it's like, it's like a step worse

than public speaking. Right? That's, that's the one thing

everybody's afraid of. And so I thought we'll gather this group

around here to kind of maybe share some ideas for folks. How

do you approach that praying in public, I mean, ideally, should

be something every Christian should be able to do, right? It

doesn't take any special training, it doesn't take any

special skills. I went through seminary and never had a class

on prayer. We talked about it a different times. But it was

never a class on how to get up and pray in public. But it's

something that I think people think is harder than it is.

Maybe just for for everybody else's sake around here. Do you

remember one of the first times that you had to pray in public

like at a small group or a meeting or something? How did

you feel that first time that you were in that situation?

The first one from like a larger group standpoint,

it was I prayed for a meal at a camp for the whole camp. And so

they were like, but it wasn't that many people there was 120

people, which is still quite a bit. But they asked me to pray

before lunch one day, and I just remember being like, I don't I

don't know how to do that in front of this many people. I

went fine. I didn't, you know, the food I think was blessed. So

No One No One choked and died. So I think it went fine. But

yeah, I definitely think I overthought it and I think a lot

of people overthink, praying in public, but like that's the

first one I can remember was, in my mind,

The first time I've really prayed in public. I was a

junior in high school, and I was a student leader at a Youth for

Christ group. We were basically leading the middle schoolers,

and after the group, as we're closing all the leaders were

coming together and talking about the day doing highs and

lows kind of talking about God sightings. And they asked me to

pray, they asked me to close in prayer. And at first I was just

like, yeah, I can't close in prayer. And then I went to pray

and I stuttered, I started well, you know, just pray now you

pray, and I stuttered. And at that point, I froze for a

second. And I ended up bringing it back together in closing the

prayer, but it was really like it was a nerve wracking moment I

even think praying in public is a little bit above kind of

public speaking to an extent

I've had those moments when so like, when I'm

closing out a sermon and doing a prayer very rarely will I ever

write out that prayer usually it's just a prayer from the

heart you know as I'm closing the sermon, and sometimes you

get going down a down a trail of thought, and then it's like wait

a minute, this is going nowhere and you start like overthinking

where am I going, what what am I trying to say here and I get to

inside my head and then that's when I start doing that and have

all those awkward pauses and yeah, it's those right just just

quick get to the Amen. Get to the Amen, we're gonna be okay.

So I don't think you know, for anybody, you know, praying in

public, maybe doesn't come supernatural for everybody. But

it is something that all of us Christians should be able to do

it after all. Prayer is simply talking to God, right? It's not

like it's a incantation, or some sort of formulation of words

that we're saying for something, we're just sharing our heart

with God. But it's something that we're maybe more

comfortable doing in private, right? It feels like more of an

intimate conversation with God that way. So maybe that's one of

the places where some people get tripped up in that. I'm used to

doing this sort of intimate thing. And now I have to do it

in front of people. And everybody's gonna hear me and

hear the words that I say that that can seem a little bit

scary, I get that

Prayer is a very intimate thing. And we think of,

you know, prayer is our communication with God. That's

how we both speak to him and listen to him. Because it's a

conversation, like you said, like, it's, it's us talking to

God, and that's us, spending intentional time with him. And

to do that in front of a bunch of people corporate prayer,

like, can be very intimidating, because we don't want to say the

wrong thing. We don't want to, you know, mess up, we want

people to think over good prayers. And we're, we're so we

say such eloquent words, and we're beautiful speakers. But I

heard this quote, I think a few months ago, but the best way to

think about prayer, both in your, in your personal, intimate

time with the Lord, but also in front of the people is, prayer

is not a place to perform, it's a place to be present. And

prayer is not a place to be perfect. It's a place to be

honest. So if your prayers are just present and honest, that is

the best way to pray. There's no right way to do it. There's no

wrong way to do it. But it's you sharing your heart with those

around you.

And if you're praying by the Spirit, I mean, I've

throughout my life, I've become so much more comfortable

praying, and in a public setting and leading prayer, just for the

fact that I think that I, I kind of call on the spirit more for

prayer, I asked the spirit to make itself president and kind

of use my words for himself. And I and I found like, I've become

a lot more comfortable in the prayer setting. And then when in

doubt, when I start to stutter, I just start up the Lord's

Prayer,

It is helpful, growing up in a tradition that

that values something like the Lord's Prayer, some of those

those kind of common shared prayers that we can, we can say

together, those are always helpful. I think for some people

in I don't know different strains of Christianity. There's

almost like a disdain for that sort of thing. Like those aren't

real prayers, because you memorize that those are, those

are just words, you know, they're not your words. And I

don't think that's true, I think we can pray those words that

we've memorized and cherish in our heart, we can pray those

with just as much meaning as the words that I pray off the cuff

in the moment, they can have that same same value. So don't

be afraid to, to go to those prayers that you know and are

familiar with,

especially considering in Matthew six, when

Jesus teaches. This is part of terminal amounts. He's teaching

a lot of people how to say this prayer, he says, Therefore you

should pray like this. And then our Father who is in heaven,

hallowed be your name, your kingdom come Your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven. Those are all the prayers that

we things we want to say when we pray, is, you know, God, you are

hallowed You are Holy, and I am I belong to you also, like, lead

us to do what you are calling us to do. Like Your kingdom come

your will be done like this is your king like this is a place

for you to be glorified, like use us in your way. Like that's

a it's a great prayer because it covers all of the bases. And

also, it's the one that Jesus literally told people to pray,

like,

and that's the best part of that, though. And

what I think is so helpful for us to remember is those words

that Jesus says when he sets it up, when you pray, pray like

this, not pray these words, you know, so that he's giving us a

pattern. We can pray those words. But we get to, we get to

pray in that same vein of we're talking to our father, and we're

after the things of the kingdom, we're setting our heart on those

things. It's it's a pattern for us to follow, which is so

helpful. It's not like those are the only ways that we can pray

or we've got to pray with flowery language or poetic

language or that kind of stuff. If that's your gift, go for it.

Most of us aren't wired that way to pray, especially off the cuff

in a poetic sort of a way. And so just using the words that are

on our heart, to speak to our Father, I think that's huge.

And there's a significance to not only just

reciting the Lord's Prayer, but actually saying it and meaning

it, and in understanding the words that you're saying, and

less of more just like reciting a poem and praying to your

Father in heaven.

So maybe one of the other ways that we can talk

about prayer here for for folks who are who find themselves

whether that's in a small group setting, in a meeting, setting

and in family setting, doing devotions, and you're just going

to lead prayer with your, your spouse and your kids. What are

some some maybe patterns that you followed if you kind of

maybe have a like a framework for prayer, or some some ways

that you kind of approach that to kind Think through the words

that we're saying. You certainly can do sort of the what I call

like stream of consciousness prayer, which is usually like my

prayer at night, as I'm falling asleep, as it's all the

different things that are running through my head. But

sometimes those aren't the most helpful in those sorts of

settings. So what have you guys use and found helpful in those

sort of scenarios.

So when I come to when, and when I come to God in

prayer, I always try to start by, by being thankful, I offer

up my gratitude towards him. And then I tried to humble myself.

And then that's when I get into kind of the stuff that I feel

that weighs on my heart that I think I want to see God work in,

and whether that's for the sick, whether that's for someone I

know, personally, who's dealing with some rough stuff, and

whether that's a depression, anxiety and a family member's

life and kind of come with those, those requests. And then

I lead more into asking for things, or asking for

forgiveness, thanking him for Jesus, and trying to try to end

the prayer by asking for his will to be done in my life.

Because I could, I could have a list of things that I want God

to do, but maybe that's not what he wants to do. And I think I

think there's an importance to understanding that God's view

and God's way is different than ours, to an extent now. I mean,

when you're walking by the Spirit and praying to God, and

all things, now, maybe your will can become his Well,

there's an acronym. PRAY that people use. Now, I

think the P is praise. So when you pray, like open your prayer

with praise, like praising God, and then Repent, so confess the

things that you've done your sins to him A is ask I believe,

I don't know what so like, ask for your the things you were

asking God for. And you can pray boldly. And the why I don't know

what the Y is, I usually do it is, what is it? Y is

yield yield. I always yield to like, like, you

were just saying, You, CJ, you know, to kind of offer it up to

God, but then whatever your will is God

the what the why I always say My mind is yearn.

Like that. It's kind of similar to yielding but it's like sure

your name for the things that like you want to see God do and

like for the for the ways that he will, he will appear. I think

that's one really good way if you're like looking for a nice,

right, if you're a format person, you want that that's a

good way to do it. I think an important practice for prayers

is befriending silence. It's like learning how to be okay

with silence and not have things play in the background. Because

the silence is where you can really not only speak to God

fully, but you can hear him as well, because the conversation

is not one way. And the Lord will put words on your heart and

I'll speak to you maybe not audibly, but he will put things

in your in your heart and in your mind that you're thinking

this might be from God. And so when you listen to him, it's

really important that you that you do that in prayer. That's

both, you know, by yourself and in public when you're publicly

praying. I think another part of public prayer that I think

people want to be better is like praying for other people. So

when somebody asks you for prayer, I think it's it's

wonderful when you have your prayer time to like, pray over

the names and pray over the things that they they're asking

for. And that's a wonderful practice. But if you ever pray

for somebody on the spot, oh, that really hits them in a

different way because somebody asked you for prayer and the

letter came with proof that right now they're they're kind

of caught off by that like, oh, what you're gonna do that I have

a friend who's really good at that we call her a prayer

warrior, because she is like, she's she's, she's amazing at

prayer, like one of the people who's just gifted and speaking

to God not in like a really eloquent fancy way. She just

like pours her heart out to him bread on the spot and, and I

think yielding is a good way of thinking about it. She really

just yields to whatever the father is saying. And she like

if you ask her for prayer, she will pray for you on the spot.

And it just I don't know what it is. But it's, it feels more

meaningful when she and maybe because I know they're praying

for me, instead of that they will pray from your I've asked

them to But no, I know you are definitely praying.

It's the, you know, on line or you know, so

many times you see somebody asked a prayer request and folks

will comment like, Oh, you know, sending thoughts your way or

whatever like this, I actually get to hear the thought I get to

hear the prayers. You know, you are, you're going before the

throne of God with this request for me. And I'm hearing it like

that's a that's a big deal. I remember I had an encounter like

that one time I was having lunch with another pastor. And we were

talking about church stuff. And this was years ago, this was

like, long before I was ever I was only a worship guy at the

time. I wasn't even thinking about going to seminary, and

somebody at a table just a couple down from us at the

restaurant. Heard that we must have been pastors came over I

don't remember what the situation was that was going on

but he asked if we would pray for him. And the pastor that I

was with spoke up right away it was like you know, let's can we

pray for him about that right now. And I really appreciated

what he said because he was like, we're not gonna fold our

head. We're not gonna hold hands here. In the restaurant, we're

not gonna close our eyes and get weird. We're just going to we're

going to talk and talk to God because He hears us. And he

just, you know, simple lifted up that request that that gentleman

shared with us. And I mean hit the guy who asked, the request

was touched, I was to just like being there as this participant

and getting to pray now for this person. And the whole thing, the

whole encounter with the request and everything, maybe took a

minute and a half, from the start of the conversation to

when the guy went back to his table, it was just a simple

thing. But man, I'm sure that made a difference for that guy.

And I've remembered it all these years later. There have been

times when somebody will call me up and it's going through a hard

time, and I'm in the car driving down the road. And well, let's

pray about that right now. So I'm not closing my eyes. I'm, I

got, you know, hands on the wheel here where the task is at

hand. But go talk to God about this situation. Just kind of

maybe circling back for a second to those different patterns that

we talked about with prayer. One of the things that I appreciated

so you know, CJ, you kind of talked about your your pattern

that you follow. Aiden, you were talking about kind of the pray

acronym. I know there's other ones like acts of prayer,

adoration, confession, thanksgiving and supplication.

There's, there's, there's different ways you can do it.

And the great thing is there's no there's no one right way to

pray. That's the biggest takeaway. I think I want anybody

who's listening to get from this. However, you come before

God in prayer, lifting up your heart, whether that's between

you and God, individually or with other people listening in

that God hears your prayers, you don't have to get his attention

with flowery language with saying it the quote unquote,

right way. You just just pray, open up your heart and speak

before God. When in doubt, keep it short. Keep it simple. And

Because the food's gonna get cold, right, your

prayer for dinner, your blessing is going way too overboard.

People are like colds keep us

and the good thing to remember too. You know,

God, God knows the cares that are on our hearts, even before

we bring them Now that doesn't mean he doesn't still want to

hear from us, right? As a parent, you know, maybe what

your kids want. But even before they ask about it, but you still

want to talk to your kids, you want to hear that from them, you

want to hear their heart. And God wants that from us too. And

so you know, go before God pray and and recognize everybody is

scared the first few times they do that. And eventually, I would

say like I still at the end of a sermon or during service, when I

pray, my heart still still like speeds up a little bit. So I get

a little butterflies in my stomach. And you know, maybe the

trick is getting those butterflies to fly in formation.

And just lean into it that you know what? It's nerves, but

God's the one who's listening and everyone else is praying

along to so great. Thanks, guys for being part of this. And I

look forward to the next time we get to talk about some some

spiritual how tos.

Alright, well, once again, I'm sitting here with Pastor Rob,

and we're here for another deep dive. And last time on this

segment, we were talking about the the nice, pleasant topic of

suffering. And why is there suffering in the world. And we

had a good conversation about that. It was good to kind of,

you know, start to dig into why do bad things happen in this

world, and maybe how to have a little bit more of a godly

perspective on when those things happen. You mentioned a story in

the Bible from about David, that we were we were trying to look

up quick on the fly as that happened and write one of those

you never hear a rod, right? It's not a Sunday school story.

It's not one that often gets, I don't think I've ever heard a

sermon on it. I know I've never preached why I've never preached

on it either. And so I wanted to just kind of revisit that story

here at the beginning. So for those who are wondering, or at

first Chronicles, Chapter 21.

I think we were a little too, too far back.

Yeah, we were talking about the first

Chronicles last time, but chapter 21. Again, this is what

Chronicles is probably not a book that people spend a whole

lot of time writing. But a lot of stories about David in here,

and this this story, just to kind of summarize that we don't

have to read it verse for verse here. But to just by way of

summary in chapter 21, Satan comes to David basically and

tells like temps David, basically to take a census of

the people of Israel. Right. And David, does that. Yes. Which

seems like kind of an odd thing for Satan to tempt David to do.

David does that joab David's kind of right hand guy, Andrew,

I think Yeah. It's like Why? Why do we need to they're all God's

people. Why do we need to take a stand?

He does say don't do it does any? Why don't do this

sinful thing or

Does he call it a sinful thing? He asked like

why then should should my lord speaking of David require this?

Oh, why should it be a cause of guilt for evil? Okay, at least

that's how the the ESV puts it here that I've got in front of

me but, but David persists and does the census. And God's not

happy about that. Now we're not we're not giving any insight

into why God is displeased. But But God basically speaks to

David and says, you've done this bad thing. You've got, like,

basically three options for punishment. One is three years

of famine. One is three months of devastation by your foes, or

one is the third one is three days of the sword of the Lord. I

got I'm going to come and punish you. And you were kind of

commenting on David's response there of like, well, I guess I

guess I go for God. Because God's merciful. I know that

about God. My foes, not so much.

There will be no mercy from my enemies, right?

And so it is what? Tell me maybe what why,

why that story came to mind when you're thinking about the

suffering? Well,

I find the well, the way it's interpreted or the way

I I've often heard that often, when I come across a story is

that David's pride that gets the best of them, he wants to see

how big has my kingdom got? Look how great I am. Now, I don't

know if the text ever says that. I don't think that text does,

but I don't know if it's alluded to somewhere else. But that's

the and Chronicles is that theological history. You know,

it's looking at all the things that and that's where we get the

kind of the, the bad stories about David, to be honest with

you, if Samuel gives, mostly the good things that happened in

David's life, Chronicles is where we get Absalom and a lot

of the other things about David, you know, the, the broken,

David. Sure. But anyhow, getting to this reminds me Okay, Satan

caused Satan. Satan brought it to David. He did it. And God

punishes I mean, I think we can give us outward here, David for

his behavior. And David, God brings consequences to David.

And then I also like David's thinking on that, hey, if I'm

gonna suffer from somebody, I'd rather suffer from God because

He is merciful. But what but MIT? What made me think of it to

answer your question is God brings us into David's life?

Yeah, yeah, God is, God certainly can be the

source of suffering that we're going through, right. And like

we said, last time, you know, some of that suffering is caused

by, like, David, our poor choices, you know, can't always

identify what the cause of our suffering is. I think it's, it

can be a healthy kind of exercise to, to, when you're in

that moment of suffering to just to reflect for a moment, is

there something in my life that I have not repented of? Right,

do I need to repent? You know, Jesus invites us to do that to

come to him and receive that forgiveness for

really healing, true wholeness and true healing.

Yeah.

And sort of, you know, to reflect and to take

an honest look at our life. Is there something I that I need to

repent of? Maybe there is maybe there isn't.

I put that in? And I hope this doesn't derail where

we're going here, but the fear of God factor? You know, that's

such a theme in Scripture, that, culturally, I think we've pretty

much lost. I don't know peep, I don't think. I don't think we're

scared of Judgment Day anymore. And yeah, until it until we're

almost in that accident, right, then we're scared, right? But in

our consciousness, I'm thinking, like to Luther, that was real.

That was present,

right? Luther was that guy who, who, you know,

would go to his father confessor, confess everything

that he could think of, and then walk away. And then remember

three or four things that he didn't go confront, and he run

right back there and confess them again, because if I don't

confess them, then then God is going to just smite me and

strike me down. And

obviously that was too far. Right? Right.

I think that's, that's a rare person today.

Absolutely. No, I

don't think we see a lot of that sort of person

today of that, like, fear of God is out to get me. God is God is

going to punish me. If anything, our culture has turned God to

that like grandfather, Santa Claus type person, just just

loves you and thinks that everything is about us. Just

just super, you know,

and I am a grandfather and that's right.

your grandkids, right? They

could do no wrong. And so most people see

God like that for us that, you know, we just can do no wrong in

his eyes. And that's not a healthy, no perception of God

either. I think we need to bring back a little bit of that fear

of God, that respect for God and who God is,

and that God has a power that you don't want

unharness from his mercy,

right. I like that. I like that turn of phrase

there. But yeah, keep that hooked up to that mercy.

Yeah, again, what is it, he's slow to anger doesn't

mean he doesn't get angry. He but he's slow to anger, but

abounding in steadfast love that I just think it does help and

make a person of full person with the ballast of I don't want

to do something purposely to offend God. But I don't want to

walk in and coloring. Fear of trespassing, either. I mean,

there's a, there's a, there's a tension, like so much of

theology is about.

Yeah, I think that's that's great to remember.

Hard to remember when we're in those moments of suffering. Now

God

does get into this suffering. And what do you do

with I mean, what when your friend is suffering, which is

what we were the topic we were going to talk about, you don't

want to hit him with, you know, God is punishing you. Right? Or

God is God is getting you for something you did? Absolutely.

Which kind of maybe brings me brings me to

like one of the kind of hallmarks of Lutheran theology

of that that distinction of law and gospel. Amen. Right. And I

can remember, a seminary Professor talking about the

whole lawn gospel thing. And he used kind of the story that

happened to him in his ministry of a woman comes into his office

wanted somebody like, wasn't part of the congregation wanted

to talk to a pastor, kind of wanted that like counseling

thing with the pastor. And she comes in and right away, asks,

like, right off the bat. Like, what does God think of abortion?

And immediately, like going through his mind, or all these,

you know, answers, and he kind of probed a little bit. And in

probing kind of found that this woman wasn't coming because she

wanted an answer. You're like, What? What does God Think about

this, you know, right or wrong. She herself had had one. And so

he was like, in that moment, kind of realizing, as this young

pastor starting out here that, that this woman, she didn't need

the law. She had the law. She came in burdened by this because

she was feeling guilty about this, that that had happened. I

forget how many years in her past, but in a long time, in her

past, she had been carrying this weight around and he was like,

she did not need one more, you know, hit with that law, she

needed the gospel. And I think that's what so many people who

are suffering in this world when we're walking alongside of

somebody, they know God's law, right? They they know that God

is upset with sin, they might be aware of sin in their life that

may have caused something, they just might be aware of sin in

general. It's kind of like, like, when, when we're doing a

funeral, right? You don't in a funeral sermon, you don't tend

to preach a ton of law, right? Because you got the law right

there. The casket is right there in front of you. Like, we know,

let's just get right to the gospel. Let's get to that good

news that, that yes, death is real suffering is real bad

things happen. But that big giant, but that God is is bigger

than this. Jesus has conquered death, sin, suffering, whatever

it is. And let's let's get to that good news. And I think

that's maybe something to remember as we're walking

alongside of somebody to like, we don't need to point them to,

when you remember that thing you did you know, where you screwed

up, or all the mistakes that you made. They don't need one more

reminder of that. They need the reminder of Jesus loves you.

Yeah, in my best moments, and they happen to

rarely but to say, Why do you know let's get to the why behind

the question, right? Or, why did you come in What? What's

prompting you here? And that's, if you can peel back the onion

to get to that point. That's when you really find out what's

going on in somebody's world. And it's not always what's so

obvious or what the what the question original question might

be about.

Yep, yep. Yeah. And same same in my life like

and I'm one of those people who it's a it's a forever bad habit

that I have of like, when people start asking a question I want

To just like, immediately start formulating the answer and Okay,

stop talking so I can get to my answer now. Like, no, I need to

listen, I need to I need to probe a little bit to find out

like, what what's what's really going on like that, that

question behind the question, as you put it, to really get to the

root of what are they? What are they really asking this this

question that they're asking, you know, and maybe the question

is the tip of the iceberg, right? Why? Why is there

suffering? is really the beginning of a much larger

discussion of like, what's going on in your life? what's what's

happening? What what are you struggling with? You know, are

you feeling like God is out to get you? Are you feeling like

God is punishing you? What are you feeling like God's punishing

you for, and then bring them right back around to that you

are a child of God, you are forgiven, you have all of God's

grace, and nothing that you could ever do would make him

love you any more or less. He's got it all. When we're in the

midst of that struggling and suffering, that can be a really

hard thing to remember.

And believe. Yeah, I guess I would like to encourage

anybody who's listening is go there with a friend. I mean, if

you have a chance to go there, don't go that deep with a

friend. Don't pull back up from it, because and the reason why

is because we're scared to go there. We don't know the answer,

which probably we don't know the answer, right? So we're going to

avoid that great conversation. But I would say to the here with

us today, Christ is bigger. It's not you. But Christ is bigger

than any sin, any darkness, any misdeed of what is in anybody's

life. So you can walk with Christ into that situation. And

then I also wanted to say, you know, there is help for people

to talk to other people. We've used Steven ministry at St.

Matthew. It's not functioning right now. But the training is

fantastic for anybody. And one of the one of the books that

we've referenced in that book is don't sing songs to have a heavy

heart. And it's a, it's the idea of the book, I think it's pretty

self explanatory is when somebody's suffering, you don't

have to put on that happy face, to try to cheer them up there

feeling sad, they're feeling they're lamenting, maybe a loss,

maybe a change of life, that is true for them. Be honest with

them, that's, that's where we are. And we're coming in as a

friend, in Jesus name, to just say, you know what, this doesn't

change our relationship, it's probably going to have an

impact, but it doesn't change God's relationship with you or

my relationship with you either, right?

Yeah, that those are some important words,

I think they're, you know, to recognize when you're walking

along with somebody, it's easy to feel like, wow, I'm just as

broken as they are, how can I help? You know,

and Well, that's true, but it is true, absolutely

true. But man, just just to remind them, and

point them to Jesus in that, in that moment, right is huge. And

anybody can do that. And you know, it doesn't take any

special training doesn't take any, you don't have to memorize

a schpeel or anything like that, but just tell people about Jesus

point them to him. And don't be afraid to just walk along with

them to just be with them. I mean, that's, that's huge in the

midst of suffering. And I would say to like, if you're listening

to this, and, and you are going through some sort of a struggle,

some sort of a suffering, find someone to walk with, you know,

maybe you don't have somebody. But like, that's, that's where I

want to lean into somebody and say, like, that's, that's when

you need to be at church, when you're struggling, because we'll

struggle together and we'll walk we'll walk along with each other

for that. That's why that's why we need each other. Find

somebody to end that with.

Yes. And that's what we need. I was thinking and one

other thing that as we came along to is, the Steven ministry

training for me was very helpful because it helped identify what

what they call negative feelings. And I had, I was the

classic person who was told to ignore your negative feelings.

Don't you know, boys don't cry. You don't. I mean, yeah, you can

get angry, but you shouldn't ever be angry. Well, those

feelings are very real. And actually, anger is very

powerful, and to suppress it is not. I mean, that that'd be a

whole nother deep dive of anger. But um, but to acknowledge Those

negative feelings with a friend, they might be angry at their

spouse, but they don't want to talk to their spouse about and

yeah, you know, and I, I'm not thinking of anything in specific

but I'm angry. cancer in my life, you know, can cause up a

lot of negative feelings. And again are my maybe and I think

I'm not alone is to ignore those or to not probe them. Let's talk

about that. And you'll find Christ is super abundantly able

to provide more than we can ever ask our imagine

and if there's one thing that the the Christian

faith the Christian worldview is good at. It's it's understanding

that everything's not great all the time. Yeah, you know we have

we have a great theology of of why sin, why their sin why

there's brokenness, we understand that we get it. So

like when we come together as church, we don't have to pretend

that everything's okay. You don't have to put on that mask

and pretend to be happy. be sad, be be it bring your hurt, bring

your pain, that's okay. You don't have to leave. You don't

have to hide it, we get it. Let's let's talk about it. Let's

share it. Let's walk with each other in that. I think we have

in modern Christianity, there's this sense that like, we just

have to pretend like now we've got Jesus everything's okay. And

we know everything will be okay. We have that promise from God

that one day when Jesus returns, everything is going to be better

than it's ever been. But until then, we're still caught in the

wake of sin. And let's not, let's not hide that under the

rug. Let's, let's talk about it. Let's, let's point again to the

hope that we have in Jesus

and again, what do you do with somebody who's

suffering with a friend who's suffering with your own

suffering? Bring it in prayer with a friend. Yep, is very

helpful, and very powerful. And the gospel does equip us to

acknowledge that, you know, you mentioned a funeral. And the

obviousness of of that I find a Christian funeral. So freeing in

that aspect to, to be able to, you know, you're remembering so

many of the good things and the good memories you have. But also

to say, You know what? We're not saying Joe was a perfect person.

In fact, he never said it. He would come to church and

confess, I am a sinner who needs a savior. And that is a great,

let's take the air out of this and keep it in a proper

perspective. Great guy, great friend who we miss immensely,

but forgiven in in Jesus Christ. Absolutely. So walking,

patiently walking honestly, with somebody who's struggling or

suffering. What you know, Paul says, We comfort those comfort

with the comfort we ourselves have received in Christ.

Absolutely. You have to do but good to do. Right.

A lifelong journey for for everybody. So

well. I think this has been a great conversation here on

suffering. And this is cool. Looking forward to our next hour

to a lot of the conversations you have. Yeah, our next deep

dive and see where we go here. Thanks, Matthew. Thanks, Pastor

Rob.

Welcome back to one more segment here in today's episode where

we're gonna look at some crazy stories from the Bible. We just

wanna take a couple minutes. I'm here with Aiden hunt, our

student ministries leader, looking at some weird Bible

stories, and Aiden, you brought this one up, it's you want to

tell us a little bit about the story here where you found it

and what brought it to your attention?

Well, to be fair, let me preface this by saying I

didn't bring this up with it with the intention of being a

toddler of conversation I would have to have in the future on

this podcast, I brought it up as an example. Oh, so you wanted

somebody else to deal with this one? Kind of Yeah, that's

usually the case. I usually say the things that provoke other

people to have to talk about them. But now you were like

eight, and you're gonna do it. And so

we want you to dig into scripture. Oh, no, I'm

kidding. So what is the story we've got before

us here? So it is Second Kings, chapter two.

Where? So? Should we give the context of what has just

happened?

Let's start with a story first, maybe and

then we'll get back out. Okay. So

this is Second Kings, chapter two verses. I'll

start at verse 2223. Verse 23. From there Alicia went up to

Bethel. As he was walking up the path some small boys came out of

the city and jeered at him chanting go up Baldy. Go up

Baldy. He turned around. have looked at them and curse them in

the name of the Lord. Then two female bears came out of the

woods and mauled 42 of the children. From there, Alicia

went to Mount Carmel. And then he returned to some area. All

right, so this is the word of the Lord. Thanks, Peter. Right?

Right. This is so this is one of those stories

that you probably don't hear a whole lot in skirt. I don't in

fact, I don't know if this one comes up in the lectionary at

all nor is as a Sunday school. Right? This is not a classic

Sunday school story. of some children getting getting eaten

by bears is a classic Old Testament exactly where you're

reading from the what version was reading from the CSB. The

Christian is here by him. I've got the English Standard Version

and the ESV in front of me, and they called him you bald head,

which I thought it's funny insult. But yeah, so so the way

that it's presented here, some some small boys, some children,

depending on the translation, come out, they they kind of make

fun of Elijah, and call him bald. And he calls down some

curses from the Lord and bears come down and Maul them. And,

and that's it. And we kind of come to a story like this and

scratch our heads and say what on earth is happening here. And

so I thought this was maybe a perfect one, we're only going to

tackle this in just a few minutes here. We're not going to

spend a huge amount of time on this one. But as a way of what

do we do when we come across these stories that leave us just

completely perplexed what that just don't seem to fit? And so

maybe what's the what's the first step that you take Aden

when when you come across a story like this.

So first things first, we need to look at the

context in which the story is written and what is happening,

what's taking place around this story. Because I think an

important thing to remember is that the Bible doesn't tell the

story of humanity the way it should be, it tells the story of

humanity the way it is. So there's really no good reason

for the author of Second Kings to put this in the Bible,

because it's not good for the whole Christian PR machine. This

is a Bible that are this is a story that confuses people,

makes people angry, and is used kind of more as, as, you know,

like, ammo for those who are against the Bible being seen as

authoritative, or is or is God being seen as loving? So like,

well, this is called a bear to some Muslim children. All

because he was called bald? Well, because this this problem

is called bald. Yeah, right? He's just really insecure. So

what, but I think we need to understand that it's in the

Bible as scripture because it happened. There's no other good

reason for it to be in there other than because it's true,

because that's just how it happened.

And that's something that I always like to

point out, especially about the Old Testament. Yeah, that so

often, the Old Testament simply reports, it just records what

happens, doesn't often explicitly in the text, make a

conclusion from that. And sometimes it just leaves you as

the reader to draw your own conclusion, especially as you

just said, in the, in the broader scope of the entirety of

Scripture, I think it's also important to to like, like you

said, to set it in the context. And so for this particular story

here, the the context is really key to understanding what's

going on here. Now, this, this happens at the end of chapter

two of Second Kings. And just a few verses ahead of this. We had

alijah, the other prophets over this is Elijah. And hopefully I

don't mix those two up as we go along. But Elijah was the

prophet who was training Elijah. And Elijah is just called up to

heaven on the fiery chariot. That kind of that is often a

classic Sunday school story. And so this is right after that.

Elijah is now on his own. He's been training under Elijah, and

he's on his way up to Bethel. Bethel is kind of an important

place. Bethel is a center of worship. It's where the people

of God are supposed to be worshiping their God in the

right way. But we also know in this time, that's not happening.

That's that's not happening the way that's supposed to be the

people of Israel have fallen into idol worship, bale worship.

And so these these boys coming down from Bethel, meeting him on

the way, they're coming out of this city that is not worshiping

God correctly. Now, one of the other things we got to kind of

pay attention to is the way when we find a story like this, I

think it's also helpful to look at different translations, if

you can, online is a great way to do that. You don't need any

special software, just Google it and find some of the different

versions and you'll start to see where there might be something

going on in the original language that the translators

are struggling with how to translate. The words that are

translated in Hebrew here as in the ESV, it says small boys, how

did how did you say that?

The CSB calls them small boys, small boy. The kgv,

though, are they're referred to as little children,

little children, right? And that's

really an unfortunate translation because that same

word is also used in other places to, to talk about

adolescence and anywhere up to 30 years old. Solomon when he

becomes King is referred to by the same Hebrew word, he was not

a small child. So this is and and there's clearly there's 42

of the boys that get mauled. So it leads us to think there's a

larger group than that. So is this a large gang, basically

roving the the hillside here coming after Elijah, mocking him

for being a prophet. The bald head, there's, there's all sorts

of ideas, what the bald is about. Some of them think that,

that maybe it's an idea that when they were prophets, they

shaved their head. And so it was a sign of being a prophet that

they were mocking him for. He also could have just simply been

bald, you know, not not necessarily

follically challenged, there you go, like,

like some of us are.

And so so he calls down, it says, He cursed

them in the name of the Lord. Now that phrase is important,

that he's cursing them in the name of the Lord, this isn't

just he swore at them. And the bears came out, but that curse

in the name of the Lord, it's actually a reference to to

Deuteronomy, where aware, when someone was to this, this was

the response of somebody attacking a prophet, or or

ridiculing a prophet, because by reading, ridiculing the Prophet,

you're basically ridiculing God. Because this is this is God's

man, this is the one who speaks for God to his people. And so so

that phrase is important to pick up in there. This is not just

Alicia got his feelings hurt, and call these bears out. But

these guys were attacking Alicia, because he's God's

prophet. And thus, God then sends the bears to Maul them

now. Whether that that I think leaves it open, whether they

were killed or not, certainly, some of them could have been

most of them probably wounded here, quite severely. But it's a

it's a really interesting story here, one that maybe leads us to

dig into scripture a little bit better. And if any final words

you want to say about this,

I think I think it's important like you said,

Matthew, like you we need to look at the context of when

these these stories come up in Scripture. And the the

introduction to the story and the conclusion of the story like

it lead, there's no like buffer spaces. No, like, we don't get

an update on these 42 men. We don't get an update on what

happened afterwards. Next thing we know we're, we're talking

about one of the kings of Israel. I was like, what about

the Rena talking about that. And so I think it's important for us

to know that these are questions that we can ask that it's good

to have these kinds of questions. Bring your questions

to God, bring your questions to your pastor to, you know,

trusted mentor. And ask those hard questions. But also

understand, you know, the, the Bible is everything in the Bible

there for a reason we and so discovering those reasons is

something we don't do individually is something we do

collectively as a body of Christ. But yeah, pay attention

to what there is to learn from this and understand that maybe

it's not always as it seems, on the surface, it does take some,

some digging and some research and some, some real scholarly

work that we're all called to do. as followers of Jesus. Yeah,

I think this is this is great. So don't be

afraid of those those hard passages. And keep reading your

Bible.

Thanks for listening in today on all these great conversations.

We'd love to hear from you as we continue this journey together.

If you could rate and review us on whatever platform you're

listening to us on that would help us out and help others find

us. And if there's a topic you'd like us to talk about, let us

know. You can email us at media at St. Matthew gr.com. Thanks

for listening and keep following Jesus together as we become