My favorite interviews are Client Success Story episodes, because I get to celebrate my clients’ success and also show what’s possible when you partner with a highly experienced coach who really understands the needs of neurodivergent, highly creative solopreneurs. 

Today’s guest is Ashley Lloyd, a multi-talented creative, who transitioned from the luxury fashion industry to landscape design, and who shares her journey of discovering the power of right sizing her business to fit her values, financial goals and ADHD brain. 

In this episode, Ashley shares how her recent ADHD diagnosis helped her better understand her perfectionism, time blindness, and rejection sensitivity, all while creating systems and workflows for her business as a sole proprietor with my expert guidance and mentorship. 

We focus on the importance of setting boundaries, systematizing workflows, and building referral partnerships to prevent burnout and maintain a healthy work-life balance. You won't want to miss this insightful conversation on balancing passion, purpose, and profit!

Here’s a sneak peek of what we covered:

🎨 Harnessing Creative Strengths Ashley shares how she utilizes her artistic skills and creative spark, honed in luxury fashion and fine arts, to create stunning landscape designs. 

🧠 Managing Perfectionism and ADHD: We talk candidly about perfectionism, rejection sensitivity, and time blindness the simple, practical strategies that make all the difference. 

📈 Referral Partnerships: Ashley’s created a partnership agreement to ensure alignment with her brand and “weed out” (pun intended) clients that aren’t a good fit.

🛡️ Setting Boundaries to Eliminate Over-delivering and Undercharging: Ashley and I discussed how we restructured her service offerings to prevent burn-out while maximizing profit.

🌟 Self-Acceptance and Personal Growth: Building a business that aligns with your personal values and vision sustains your momentum and creative energy. 

Check out the episode Ashley listened to TEN times that changed her mind about customer service: 

Episode #201: Reversing Energetic Drain by Closing Open Loops in Your Client Service Business 

Books on the Highly Sensitive Person by Dr. Elaine Aron

Mic Drop Moment: 

 "I created a flowchart with you of my process. And knowing what the flowchart looks like, the client intake, all the way through to the end, I'm able to better position myself to not get taken advantage of."  Ashley Lloyd 

Website: Ashley Lloyd Garden & Design 

Have you been forgetting to book a consultation for one of my summer offers? There’s just ONE WEEK LEFT to grab one of my Summer Strategy Sessions. These fast and focused engagements are designed for maximum impact in minimum time.  Click on the hyperlink to schedule your no obligation consultation NOW! 

H: So, Ashley, you started off hearing me on another podcast, started following mine. And when you heard me say, I was exploring opening up the opportunity to work with me for a shorter, more focused engagement rather than my 3 month signature program, you decided this might be the time. And after our consultation, I expressed to you that I thought you might need more time than what we had discussed. And I loved your comeback to me and how you advocated for what you wanted, which is exactly what we did. Do you remember what you told me?

G: That I can be quite decisive, when I need to be and I'm not going to rethink, overthink, and, yeah, that I was ready to do this.

H: It really impressed me because a lot of women with ADHD, which as we know is my specialty, they want to be decisive. They want to be action takers, but some of us need more processing time. Some of us need more time to make decisions, and once we've made them to implement them. But you impressed me from day one with how willing you were to take action and keep moving forward. And I think it's one of the primary reasons why we accomplished so much in just 6 weeks together.

G: I agree.

H: So I think to put things in a little bit of a frame, why I think it was such a good engagement and why you were able to get so much out of it. You are a person who really appreciates quality. You are a person who strives for excellence and you are now in your 2nd business in the luxury market. Can we talk a little bit about your history, what you did before, and why you decided to create the business that you're working in?

G: Sure. I started I have a background in fine arts, and I had a business, designing avant garde military sculptures, so sculptural headdresses. You know, working with magazines like W Magazine, Vogue, Vanity Fair, Harper's, etcetera. And I was able to be featured on some really prominent people, and I loved it. I loved collaborating with fashion designers, and fashion photographers and stylists. It was a dream to be able to, you know, complement their designs or, you know, help them finish a vision on their end. And I was also simultaneously working in the luxury fashion industry as a salesperson on Madison Avenue. And most of my target or ideal clients were those women that I was helping, day to day. And I just started to feel, a little bit like there was not a light at the end of this tunnel.

I don't know how I'm gonna support myself, because I wasn't selling my hats at that time. You know, there was an interaction with a very famous pop star, who I won't name, where she wanted to borrow my hats for free. And we went back and forth for about a month and I finally said, you know, this is my art, but it's also my business. And realized that I was not paying myself and decided, you know, this is sucking all of the creativity out of me. You know, I had been able to handle my press and, marketing, everything on myself at that point, but I knew I couldn't continue. I was not able to make any more hats at that point. I just felt really discouraged.

And a friend mentioned this other career opportunity, which was, the New York Botanical Garden has this amazing continuing studies program, and that she was starting to take classes in landscape design. And I had this epiphany moment, light bulbs went on, and I felt it was for me. And I really I did hold back for about 8 months and try to decide, is there anything else I could do, I don't wanna copy her. Fashion was highly competitive. Finally, I asked, would it be okay if I took some classes and she was like, please do, so I did. And I really feel like I found a career that I can give back.

I'm not just making things that will sit in a hat box or, you know, go into a magazine and be appreciative for a moment, but I'm actually making a difference. I really believe that, especially with climate change and everything that's happening in the world right now, people do need to be in nature. They do need to be enjoying it and, yes, I have a higher I want to be in the more luxury sector of this. There's still so much to be said for just creating moments of beauty and transcendence in art, with plants, which is I just didn't realize could ever be a career. And I just I found this outlet that is challenging, that is rewarding, that allows me to encompass all of my previous experience with, arts, painting, millinery, like sculpture making, and client service.

H: You mentioned to me, at one point that you felt that the luxury market was well suited to some of the traits you have that you've come to understand your ADHD. I think that would be fascinating to talk about.

G: Sure, I think I know I'm multitalented, and I am a perfectionist. And I really want to be the best that I can be. And I want the things that I create to have longevity, to be quality over quantity. And I think about color and just, you know, how it's just so and even like plant communities. Like, I guess, a plant nerd in a sense where I really care a lot about observing nature as it happens already and then I recreate that with a vision in mind. And I like to think that I human size it. But I yes, I have I think the fact that I have so much artistic training and then the client service background as well. I just and the fact that I'm non compromising, I really I will say no to things that are not well suited for me, and I have no trouble doing that. Yes, I don't know how like, where else I would be if I was not in the luxury sector, it would be very hard for me.

H: Well, I can't imagine you not doing something that allows you to utilize your many forms of creativity. And my personal opinion about being a woman with ADHD, especially a highly creative woman with ADHD, is that if we are not able to utilize our gifts and we are not able to express ourselves in whatever way our creativity takes us, we are going to be far more symptomatic, not just with our ADHD traits, but also starting to develop a lot of anxiety and depression. And towards the end of our engagement, you were talking about some additional things that you might decide to get into and learn and do because I think you also need to continue to grow and continue to expand your area of mastery. My prediction is if you didn't choose something that would allow that, you would eventually feel bored and want to go do something.

G: Absolutely, I completely agree with that.

H: So some of the things that we focused on over our 6 weeks together were really thinking about your client work flow from beginning to end, how you get your referrals, how you screen your referrals, your paid consultation. We crafted your specific service offerings, your positioning, packaging, pricing, how you serve your clients, and how you off board them. We also talked about, your referral partners and networking. But I would say one of the things that came through again and again and again was boundaries. And I know because you really care about what you do and you really value excellence and service, especially with my creative people like you, it's one of the hardest things. Where do you think you were at the beginning, and where do you think you are now with your understanding about boundaries and how you implement that in your business?

G: Well, I will say, and this is a little bit off topic, but the open loops podcast that you had I'm gonna say Open Loops. I had that on repeat and shared it with multiple friends. I must have listened to it 10 times, because I found it so relevant. And that was right before that was the podcast that made me say, okay. No, I really need to work with Diann like, it's this is crucial. I would say that I was so broad with what I felt like, I didn't know what I was offering, and so I was very open and I'm a very generous person. And so I was, you know, offering a lot of myself and not getting paid for it. And so really it's changed things by having actual I created a flowchart with you of my process.

And now knowing what the flowchart like, what that the flow looks like, the client intake, all the way through to the end, I'm able to better position myself to not get taken advantage of as much. And knowing what's next and having that it's like that knowing that that is around the corner, I'm able to segue into that. And it just really does help me maintain those boundaries that were very important to me. I just had a very hard time, implementing them and holding fast with what was dear to me, which really is having balance in my life. But because I have such a desire to be creative and also to share, and service my clients, I would go too far with, you know, offering that offering myself, to the point that I was not able to take care of myself.

H: I think this is probably the most common thing I see with creative soloists. It's almost counterintuitive, Ashley, when you're doing something you love and you're actually making a living doing something you love, why would you wanna do less than you're capable of? Why would you want to set limits on yourself? Why wouldn't you want to do the fullest expression of your gifts and your talents, whether you got paid or not. And I think it's I always say it's hard for women who are wired like us to create the right balance and a sustainable effort to balance passion, purpose, and profit. Most women who create creative businesses are not profitable for several years, if ever. And it's because of this very reason, it's like, well, I know I don't get paid enough, but I love what I do. And I know that my clients take advantage of me, but I don't really want to do less than I'm doing. And I think being able to accept that about yourself and honor that about yourself and work that self awareness and self acceptance through your offerings so that it's not one or the other.

It's not, I have airtight bulletproof boundaries, or I let people exploit the fuck out of me. It's a much more nuanced and astute understanding of where you can lean in and where you can pull back, which is really what the open loops conversation is about. You know, because not everybody listening may reference that episode. I will link to it in the show notes if you're curious about why anyone would listen to one of my podcast episodes 10 times. I'll make sure that you find the link because I think this is how our brains work. We just keep looping, looping, looping, looping. It consumes an enormous amount of our time and our capacity. So can you think of a change that you made with respect to your boundaries as a result of our work together that you know is going to pay off over time in terms of preventing burnout and preventing you from doing too much or too little?

G: Yes, when we were working together, I created my general offer that is going to be, we really, hammering out what my offers are and in respect to trying to keep them limited to 3. My higher offer, is the one that is more the most white glove and where I'm able to really shine with offering all of the things that I master and I'm interested in. And then there's the offer, which is little bit more limited, but still, I think, really great, which is the one that most of my clients, expect and enjoy. And it just really helps me understand where I fall into like, where those clients and what I'm going to give them, what I'm gonna deliver is within that one area.

H: You know, it's funny how often we think our clients are exploiting us, but oftentimes, we're volunteering to do more impulsively. It's what I call the default yes. And when you're multitalented as you are, you're especially prone to the default yes. Because when someone says, hey, so we were thinking about adding this, or we were thinking about getting that, or we were thinking about changing whatever, could you do that? Even if it's not in your offer, even if it's not in the service package that they have purchased from you, stop me when I'm wrong, you're probably gonna say no.

G: Because you're not taking time to think about it. You're just gonna answer yes, which is what I was constantly doing. I was taking on projects, without fully thinking about them. And sometimes embarrassing myself by having to get back to them a day later because I realized I really couldn't do that. It was not for me and I did create that with your suggestion. I made my contracts more ironclad, more detailed, more explicit, a termination clause, which I think is beneficial for everyone. It's more spelled out.

And also the add on services and what that looks like and what they can expect in advance so that it's set. And it's not as awkward when I have to reference that. It's okay, well, it's gonna be this. And no one's surprised when the bill comes that it's gonna be more because that was not what we originally discussed.

H: Yeah. I always think that the way I work with my clients is to create the systems, structures, and supports to prevent them from their own tendencies. Because if you love what you do, if you're multi talented, if you're generous, if you really do want to serve people at the highest level of your ability, you are absolutely at risk for burnout. You are absolutely at risk for over delivering and undercharging. And I know for a fact that that always leads to feeling resentment towards your clients, which totally steals all of the joy from the work that you're doing. So because I know that's how we roll, it's like, okay, so we have to shape this business to prevent you from the default yes, to prevent you from breaching your own boundaries, to prevent you from volunteering to do all kinds of things that you're not getting paid for because we impulsively say yes before we've checked our capacity and whether it makes sense within our business model.

So my goal for what we've done is for you to be able to operate in such a way that most of the decisions you make on a day to day basis are what I call no brainers. A no brainer is that you've already thought about it. You've already figured it out. You've already looked at your options. You've already committed to this one. You've communicated it to your clients, so you don't have to use any brainpower to implement it. It's all right there. Now, if you violate your own stuff, I have nothing I can do about it, but I don't think you will because something you said in your testimonial questionnaire, that's probably one of the best pieces of feedback I've ever gotten, is you made several years worth of progress in the course of a couple of months, and that working with me basically saved you from over delivering and undercharging for years. And I thought, I've always thought that, but you actually said it.

G: Well, Diann, it doesn't surprise me that that's what happened. I mean, that was one of my you know, when I was walking through with my partner, that I was gonna do this program with you and that I was really excited, I cited that to him, I said that. I said, I think that I'm going to be able to move forward years what would have take, you know, in just a couple of months with Diann, what would have taken me so long to and I would I was already about to be burnt out. I'd already been burnt out by this career and fortunately have the winter to kind of breathe again usually. But I didn't have last winter, I was designing the entire time and it went by in the blink of an eye.

And, yeah, I knew that if I didn't work with you I mean, that was one of the things that I think your questionnaire, to even schedule your consult asked, well, where do you think you'll be if we do not work together? And I think I was burnt out and, you know, thinking of really getting a real job. You know, working for someone else again, even though it really does not suit my talents or needs as a woman with ADHD.

H: And you were only diagnosed about a year before we met, I think?

G: No, I think, like, 3 or 4 months. Not like I so my partner sat down and had a conversation with me. I believe this past January. Maybe even it was it's not been very long. He sat me down and said, you know, hey, babe, I think that you have this thing. And I was like, oh, what do you mean? And he was like, well, I think you have ADHD, like, I laughed. I really I thought that, you know, I knew I was neurodivergent. I had already, you know, read books on it. I knew I was a highly sensitive person. Read all of Elaine Aron's books and, you know, I just I was like, I don't I really don't think so. And so, you know, he read some things to me, and then was like, no and so I was like, let me read them myself, this article that he was reading.

And I read them, I was like, I really don't think so, but tell me more. And so he's like, why don't we read it out loud? And then reading out loud, I had this, oh aha moment of, oh, yes, I really do have this thing. And suddenly, I didn't even really need to be diagnosed, but I did go that route because I felt like it was important. You know, I'm 37 years old, and I kind of needed to know if it was something else. But, yeah, it really put things into perspective as to the problems I was having with my business, you know, the perfectionism, relationship troubles, the rejection sensitivity, which I really struggle with, and it's kind of something that was constantly keeping my wheels spinning within my business and just sucking so much energy out of me. And, you know, I think that the systems that we created have really helped me deal with that so much more because I know it might, like, we've defined my wheelhouse, and we've defined my offer.

And you said it was really important for me to define my wheelhouse because then I would know how far outside of that I was going to be going or bending to accommodate that request that might not be within that. And I have already, as of this morning, even said no to something that I could have done, but it was probably not a good use of my time and energy, because, you know, I did your test, and it said, you know, the test of what's holding you back. And mine was time blindness, no surprise, or time optimism and yes.

H: I might prefer that version, time optimism. I have all the time in the world, no, you don't. But, you know, here's what I think about that is that time blindness is sort of an inevitable consequence or, I don't know, suggestive of the fact that you don't just have ADHD, because we have a different relationship with time. When we're doing something we love, all awareness of time goes away. All awareness of how much time we've already been spending doing the thing evaporates. People forget to eat, they forget to use the bathroom.

And instead of thinking of it as a problem, instead of thinking, oh my god, I have no boundaries. I let people take advantage of me. I volunteer to do way too much, I'm never gonna be profitable. Yada, yada, yada, it's like, okay, but since you know, those are your tendencies, why don't we put some things in place so that you're literally not figuring this out one day, one contract, one client at a time. This is what I do and this person either fits or they don't so that you don't have to constantly get into this debate with yourself. Well, I could do that. Well, I could do that, girl, you can do just about anything you put your mind to, but that's not in your best interest if you want to have a life as well as a business. And was there something specific about this particular client that made you think, yeah, it's not that I wouldn't like the money, but, like, this is something that's outside the wheelhouse, and I'm simply not going to compromise.

G: Well, it was so far out of the wheelhouse, it wasn't for a client. It was for a charity, actually, which I would have loved to do, but it coincided with my wedding in October. And all of the events were gonna happen during that time and I, you know, that was the benefit. The benefit was the events that came with this project. It was, me designing a show garden, as a part of with other creative people, which I was like, yes, let's collaborate, I love to collaborate.

But it's yeah, it wasn't the fact that I was not gonna get paid, though that should have been something to think about. It was that I really need to balance my life and, you know, it was a little bit too open ended as in there was not a program. I was not fulfilling a need for a client. It kind of felt like I was making it's going back to making hats or something that was stagnant that I mean, who was it benefiting? I don't know. It was just too far out of my wheelhouse that I it was very easy to say no.

H: I think where it will become harder is when you can see the value, but you still have to decide about capacity issues. And I think, you know, my experience working with women like us, this is one of the things that comes up again and again. It's like, I could do that, and I see value in that, but everything has an opportunity cost. So if you say yes to this, there's something else you're gonna have to say no to or wish you had. And it's the it's part of the time blindness, but it's also I think we have difficulty estimating our capacity and then making choices that are truly opportunities and not just options.

G: Yeah. And I think it's also the fact that it fell within this summer quiet period that you mentioned in most creatives. And most people, solopreneurs experience every summer, which is there's a lull and people are busy on vacation away. I think right now, it's, you know, my clients are distracted by what's happening in the world as we all are. Yeah, it's really trapping to weigh those options as well. Like, I don't know what's gonna come in my business because I am really dependent on clients and the luxury sector and it's hard.

H: Well, there's so many things that are outside of our control. So we're trying to make the best decisions we can with the things that are inside our control. And I’m thinking about something your and I worked on as well which was getting really clear on who your referral partner can be, should be and how to shape those relationships because you are not a person who loves marketing. You are not a person who loves to promote herself. You are a person who is keen to take advantage of PR opportunities, and I think you're very good at spotting the good ones that are worth your time. But in terms of getting clients, you're not gonna be on social media. You're not gonna be on LinkedIn. You're not gonna be going to BNI meetings. You are in a sector of the market where it's all about referrals from people who serve your same clientele in a non competitive way. Can we talk for a minute about how you kind of shaped that from sort of an informal to more of a formal process?

G: Sure. I mean, we created a partnership, a referral partnership agreement, that just spells out the clients that I'm looking for, who I am, and expectations, at least for some of my collaborators, I guess, I would say, the contractors that I work with. You know, just to make sure that we're all in alignment. And it's something that, you know, it's a document that I everyone should initial and sign and date. And then, you know, offering the ones that also offering a small percentage of you or getting clear about what I'm offering to them in exchange for their referral. And, yeah, we just we really spelled it out and got extremely clear on it. And also, you know, I think it was figuring out who my referral partners would be and determining which ones were really in alignment with what I do as well.

H: Yeah, and when you say alignment, I'm thinking because you do high end external environments, which can include, landscape design, lighting, as well as servicing of, the property and all the nature that you, install in it. But I know you've gotten some I wouldn't say pressure. You've gotten some invitations to do things that are really not in alignment with your branding. For example, I believe your fiance suggested that, okay, you wanna do this landscape thing? Get a crew, do the mow, blow and go, but do it at a little bit higher price because of where you are, you can get a higher price. And even though you obviously value his opinion, I mean, he is the one who tipped you off to your ADHD. You said no to that advice, because it wasn't in alignment with who you are and the brands you wanna create.

I think one of the most impressive things about working with you has been what you are able and willing to say no to. Because I think that's how we've really kind of refined things from that. Well, I could do that, well, I have done that, is it now in alignment? Let's talk about the mow blow and go versus no. Even though I know maybe the economy is uncertain, maybe the sector of the market is exposing me to a greater degree of risk because I have fewer clients at a much higher price point. But you are very committed to this so let's talk about how you make that decision that I'm gonna do this. I'm not doing that.

G: Sure, I know that I'm a very maternal person and I'm very generous and I care a lot about the people that I work with, my neighbors. I just care about people and so I know that when managing people, I get very involved. I care a lot and I would be very committed to making sure that they're taken care of and take on clients that I would never say yes to otherwise. And I would also be sitting behind a desk the entire time and that's not what I enjoy. That's not why I got into this business.

You know, I would much rather hire a team of guys that can then go out and support themselves doing work outside of what I'm bringing to them. I think that that's much more rewarding for them and for me. It's not in my best interest to take on clients that really are not in alignment with me because I'm non compromising. I don't want to say yes to something that I know I cannot make happen. I can't bring into reality that your budget I'm sorry. Like, it doesn't align with what you want to do, and I don't believe in taking shortcuts. And I know that if I did have a, like, a business that would service clients in that week to week manner, you know, it's that's more I would say it's much more of a necessity than what I'm currently offering to clients.

Yes, it would be great, and I would make sure that it was an exceptional, you know, andmow blow business, which would have value here in this area. But I that's it would just suck all of my creative energy and my focus away from doing what I know that I want to do. And because I do have the time optimism, I would just not be able to have balance ever because I would be constantly managing these guys over here, and then I would need to go and fulfill my creative vision over here and my design projects. And then I also have a home life, and I know that my home life would suffer. It's already the first thing that suffers, day to day.

H: It's true, we are not easy women to be partnered with. We're just not because whatever we're obsessed with is really taking over our brain. I think it like it's like an eclipse, you know, what our latest obsession is, takes over our brain. And unless your partner is very, very secure and they know how to get your attention in a way that isn't obnoxious and childish. No tantrums usually don't go over too well. Like, I'm smiling because I'm thinking what you said a few minutes ago, that when your partner wanted to go through the ADHD information with you, he said, let's read it out loud.

So he was actually trying different ways of connecting you with the information. And this is a good partner for someone like us because he's actually working with your tendencies and not saying, listen, Ashley, sit down and pay attention because this is really important and you need to hear this. He's like, okay, that didn't work, let me try this, which is much easier on your rejection sensitivity. And I realized we spoke of that briefly a moment ago, and I think it would be a mistake to end this conversation without saying more about that because it's something that is so common to any woman like us, especially when you're self employed. How are you better able to manage rejection sensitivity now that you have more structure in your business because you're still gonna get noes, for sure.

G: Yeah, I think so. I think that the rejection sensitivity was really coming on from clients that I should never have taken on. It was something that was outside of my wheelhouse. I wasn't necessarily feeling like I was vibing with them in a way that I didn't think we spoke the same language. I was trying to make it work because I could. And so, you know, it would be text that might say something. Something came up and it's very wrong.

And I would just like they weren't blaming me, but it would just take over the entire day and how to respond. I felt so guilty, so much shame because I wasn't able to foresee this one thing happening. So for me, it's setting myself up for success in the way that I define the kind of clients that I want, and I am very clear in my boundaries upfront, and so they were texting me. So, like, you know, that's something that you and I spoke about and put into my contracts, like, the best way of communication like, if it's an emergency, sure. But this wasn't an emergency, and I was already enwrapped to do something else. But instead, I just imploded, and it was just such a small thing that took days of my energy and was totally upset. And so now it's just, not to say that it won't happen again, but I do really think that having those checks and, like, those balances of this is the best way to contact me, you know, knowing when I'm gonna check my email, and that I don't have to constantly be on it.

So, you know, in the mornings are better time for me to do that, understanding my ADHD brain. My executive function is much more able to handle those things versus in the afternoons when my creative brain shifts on and I tend to ruminate, which is what I was doing, with that moment. And so, I really do think that it's I think it's gonna happen a lot less because I do have an understanding of, well, this is my wheelhouse, and this is what I've explained, and this is what I'm responsible for. And this thing over here that had nothing to do really it was indirectly related to me. It was totally not my thought, but I took all of the blame internally, and it served no one.

H: And I think also is so, so common. So, so common. I know when it when people talk about this, there's even shame in sharing it because we think, oh my God, here I am saying I lost several days of my life because of a text message from a client that I don't even wanna be working with anyway. But it's all like it's why I think each of these things is separate, but it's all kind of a cluster because when you know who you are and how you are, when you accept this is the kind of work I wanna do. These are the kind of people I wanna do it with. This is how much I want to work and how much life I want outside of work. This is how much I want to be accessible and available to people. It's okay to build your business around that knowledge because what's the point of being self employed when you don't get to say no to anything? Like, why, just get a fucking job right?

But this is your business, you really do get to do it your way. And I think even though nobody would hire me or someone like me to give them permission to do things their way. I think it's very powerful to hear someone like you say it is. Like, I think we to be able to give ourselves permission, sometimes we need someone who really gets it and who really gets us to say, not only am I giving you permission, I am insisting that you create this business to suit your brain, your preferences, your values, your bandwidth, your lifestyle. Because otherwise, I will have failed you. Even though we created a lot of fantastic deliverables and made some really important changes. If I didn't also say, Ashley, you have to create the business that works for you even if it doesn't look like anyone else's.

G: Even though I knew who my ideal client was in my brain, it was powerful to be seen by you, someone that I really respected and, yes, I mean, I did. You did give me permission to make the business fit me to right size it for myself. And that was very meaningful, especially as someone that, you know, my business, my millinery business, though I was very successful in press and outwardly very successful, I didn't make any money on that business and it was terrible. And so I was feeling a lot of insecurity about this business. I'm like, what is wrong with me like, I'm still not. I'm making a lot more money on it, but I'm still not making a profit in a way that I can support myself. And though I might not be able to do that right this second with the way that the world is happening, but it's I know it's coming. And, I know what my values are, and I know what my client is, and I know what my offer is. And I think being so clear on that and my process has given me a lot of peace of mind, to know that yeah, I'm seen and I'm heard, and, I have permission to do things my way, which I'm gonna do no matter what.

H: But I do think one of the things that's most important is that we empower ourselves to be who we are, to be how we are, and to do what we want, and to find a way to make it work. Instead of trying to finagle ourself into what other people think we should do. However well meaning they are, they're not us. We have to do things our way. I don't really think we have any choice in the matter. We don't have to be an asshole about it. But to me, it's such a missed opportunity for someone that's self employed if we don't fully do things our way. Because I am absolutely certain that there are people who want exactly what you have to offer from you.