"I’m really grateful I’ve been gifted that perspective”

Chef Mary-Ellen McTague faced two of life’s biggest tests; the loss of her business and a marriage, compounded by the revelation of her ADHD.

Business psychologist and Executive Coach, Hazel Showell explores the intersection of life's toughest transitions and the unexpected gifts they can bring. In this episode, you’ll hear how chaos can lead to clarity and why it's never too late to embrace the gifts of neurodivergence.

After the closure of her restaurants and the end of her marriage, a chance conversation with a friend got Mary-Ellen to think there could be a reason for her struggles.  As she grapples with the diagnosis of ADHD, discover how Mary-Ellen transforms her struggles into strengths, redefines success, and learns to practice self-compassion. It's a story that will inspire anyone who's ever felt out of step with the world around them.

You can read Hazel's accompanying blog for this episode here

You can also download the self-compassion worksheet here

More from Hazel…

Visit her website: Just Hazel

Or connect on: LinkedIn

Connect with Mary-Ellen

On Instagram:@maryellenmctague. 

Mary-Ellen's Photo Credit: Rebecca Lupton

Welcome to Endings.

Hazel: Mary-Ellen McTague is a chef and a restaurateur who's worked in multi Michelin star kitchens. She's lived through the closure of two of her restaurants as well as the end of her marriage, blaming herself for her personal brand of chaos, as she called it.

Hospitality is a notoriously tough industry, but it was one that Mary-Ellen felt she could handle and eventually thrive in.

Finances. I enjoyed it being that way. I definitely got a buzz out of, out of the chaos. Out of the fact that it was, it was kind of, you know, it was kind of every day was flirting with total disaster.

Hazel: Even when her children came along, life did not slow down.

Hazel: Then came 2020 and the COVID pandemic and for Mary-Ellen, it all became a bit too much.

Mary-Ellen: Well, eventually I burnt out and I'm still recovering from that. I think I was really, I was conscious that it wasn't sustainable

I hated cooking. COVID was the final nail in the coffin. Trying to. keep a business afloat during that time. I mean, which ultimately, I [00:03:00] failed in the business had to close.

Hazel: At the same time, Mary-Ellen was having the growing realization that there might be another reason why she was struggling.

Mary-Ellen: I just, I think I had this sense from being really small that there was something wrong with me. Cause I remember getting in trouble a lot as a kid and I couldn't understand it. Cause I'd be like, but I'm trying really hard. To be good, like I'm doing my absolute best and still somehow managing to get into trouble. And that feeling stayed with me my whole life.

Mary-Ellen: So I was chatting with a friend who, um, she's a, a researcher tv and she had been working on a program about children in pupil referral units. So through that work, they'd then interviewed. The, I think is the guy who runs, I think it's ADHD UK, just in chatting to him, he'd sort of talk about, uh, symptoms of ADHD that aren't necessarily just about, uh, young boys that are hyperactive and naughty, that that [00:04:00] was kind of a very surface level understanding of ADHD.

In talking to him, she sort of started going, Oh yeah, that sounds like me. Oh, and that's me. And that's me as well. And she sort of, she sort of saw herself in all of these things. So she's relating this conversation to me and all of that. She was telling me, I was also like, Oh, Oh yeah, that's me. Nope. That's the whole thing is me.

Mary-Ellen: I just needed to know whether I did have ADHD or I was just a bit of a shit person. Because the fact is that so many ADHD symptoms are what we, you know, as a society would deem to be character flaws.

And I, you know, I was definitely worried that, that they would say, no, you haven't got ADHD, you're just not very nice. Oh, it's a big thing.

Because what has changed for you then since the diagnosis?

But unfortunately as well, the ADHD service, I was assessed and diagnosed by was really poor. In fact, they recently lost their NHS contracts. So the medication didn’t work out because they didnt [00:06:30] titrate me. It's like they prescribed a drug that doesn't exist. I mean, it was, it was, it was an absolute joke, to be honest. So, um, that was a bit unfortunate.

I mean we were trying everything, anything and everything to keep it afloat and It didn't ultimately close that until the summer of 2022, so we kept going until there was absolutely nothing left to try. I mean, we even pivoted to be in a, an Italian restaurant. It was, you know, we did all sorts, everything you kept pedaling we can think of, but we kept pedalling, yes.

Hazel: But that's the interesting bit, isn't it? That, you know, you, you, you keep peddling, you keep trying the best you can in impossible situations.

Mary-Ellen: it. No, I can definitely see now that it was just impossible. It wasn't my fault, but at the time I very much felt like it was all my fault and all on my shoulders.

So I've done a lot of, a lot of research into ADHD and I still, you know, I'm still constantly finding out things. This morning I figured out if I put my shopping list on my work app thing, that I might actually remember to buy the toilet roll in time. [00:09:00] Every day, every day is a school day and I'm kind of constantly trying to make little incremental changes.and I've got to the point where I've got, you know, I finally managed to get, get around to having two bank accounts, one for bills, one for not bills. And so I now pretty much know that I'm not going to miss a bill. It still happens occasionally. I forget to do a transfer or whatever. I still managed to mess it up sometimes, but the system is fairly robust.

Hazel: And it's interesting, isn't it? When you discover that sometimes that isn't the answer, you can't work any harder. And, but I was also, as you were talking, I was thinking there's a, like an equation I use a lot in coaching, which is compassion plus distance minus judgment equals love. And the first, so it's compassion plus distance, which is perspective, minus judgment equals love.

Mary-Ellen: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's, that's fantastic. And the other thing I think that has changed hugely for me in the last couple of years has been the coaching. So I did eventually manage to access some ADHD coaching and that was life changing to the point where I was like, I'm going to retrain as an ADHD coach. Like this is, I haven't managed to squeeze that into my schedule just yet. But it was, that was a starting point for me to [00:11:00] like, I'd done all this research, but I wasn't able without the coaching to apply the self compassion. And also to understand that I needed to really strip my life back to basics.

So my first homework for my first coaching session was to take two like minute long breaks during the day. Like really basic stuff. The second one was to have breakfast. I mean, I, you know, that was the second coaching session. My homework was to start trying to have breakfast, like really basic self care that I just didn't, I hadn't considered that stuff.

That was something I created by not understanding time. My time blindness is insane. Like I have no concept of how long anything will take. Um, so understanding that I have to, I have to have allowance in my [00:12:30] diary for that. Um, and so I was constantly on the go because, because I just was constantly saying yes to too many things and adding, like constantly adding to my plate.

So yeah, learning, learning how to sort of strip back, strip things back and. Say no a bit more and, and sort of just really do the absolute basics of taking care of myself, food and water and the odd break.

Mary-Ellen: No, no, much better now though. Much, much better. I'm a, I regularly get eight plus hours sleep, which is amazing.

Okay. And ended up meaning we didn't pay everybody off at the end. And that was, you know, having to tell suppliers [00:14:00] that you're not going to be able to pay them is Awful because they're small businesses too, like awful. Um, yeah, it was, it was a pretty, pretty undignified end, but it needed to be over. It was, it had been sinking for a long time and it was, it was really doing me harm trying to keep it going.

Hazel: Then that also sounds like grief on top of the impact of your ADHD.

Mary-Ellen: Yeah, there was that too, definitely.

Mary-Ellen: Well, like a whole re evaluation of my life happened. Everything, every relationship, every difficult phase, things I was good at, the facts that I'd found cooking Was good at that the fact that why, why I fell apart at college and uni, why I couldn't complete those courses, you know, I'd, I'd still [00:16:00] had this feeling that I'm just that I'm lazy, you know, and yeah, I'd be able to reevaluate absolutely everything from, you know, going back to being age four or five years old.

I mean, there was a lot of grief. In fact, I'm feeling a bit upset now thinking about it, but there was, um, yeah, there was a lot of grief there as well. So things that could have been different and things I'd lost and. Relationships I'd not been able to maintain. That, that was all really hard. So I think you're right.

There was there was loads of stuff. And then. And then this whole lifetime worth of, of what felt like, I guess felt a bit like missed opportunities. It was a, it was a lot, a lot [00:17:00] to process. Like it's an ongoing process. I definitely don't feel, I don't feel that sense of sadness about it all anymore. I think I feel much more glad to have this new understanding.

Hazel: The other thing I was interested in is when you were talking about yourself before, there was A huge amount of self judgment, like say, Oh, I must, I need to try harder. I must be lazy or something. Did that change after the diagnosis?

Um, That's, that's still there, but it's definitely, definitely much less, I'm getting better at hearing it happen and, and, you know, sort of going, actually, hang on.

Mary-Ellen: Yeah, well, exactly. But they're just such well trodden paths. I mean, if that's the way you're thinking since you were a small child, it's, I heard a brilliant phrase the other day. I can't remember where it was now, but somebody said or wrote, uh, practice makes permanent. So it's, you know, through repetition, obviously you don't just, there was those neural pathways or whatever, all those habits.

Hazel: At all. Oh, yeah. This feels familiar. But that's the thing, isn't it? It's, it's all this complexity because it's not a straightforward condition. There's [00:19:30] so many layers to it in terms of the behavioural side and, um, you're right that The neural pathways, if you've got to recarve it, it's like imagining water that's created, uh, valleys because it's been running the same way for years and years and years.

Mary-Ellen: It's, well, it's too hard some days. It's just too hard some days. I think the other, the other thing I've learned recently. So I think it's, I think, um, it's referred to as like a spoon, the spoon theory. You know, you've only got so many spoons at the start of the day. Oh yeah. So you have. Yeah. We've got some, I saw a video, somebody did this as a visual thing. She was like, this is how many spoons I've got today. And then she's like, this is getting up out of bed. This is making breakfast for the kids. [00:20:30] This is washing my face and brushing my teeth, you know, and, and it's like, it's 10 AM and they've all gone. And she's still got a day of work to do. And then kids later, and, you know, I'm trying to find a way to work that for myself where I can sort of try and think about what I've got energy wise and like intellect wise.

Mary-Ellen: I definitely thought I was some kind of robot before I was like, I didn't understand that there'd be consequences for working 80, 90 hours a week for 20 years. I was like, I mean, I'm feeling the consequences now in my knee and my back, definitely, definitely feeling those consequences, but I just, I don't really give myself the space for [00:21:30] things that I would just like to do for me. Cause I just, I feel like I need to meet all these expectations of other people.

Mary-Ellen: That is such a brilliant and profound thing and I'm gonna ask My two very wonderful and lovely Eat Well colleagues, what they expect of me, because yeah, I bet it's not, it's not the same as what I expect.

And it's that sense of being okay. Of if you don't hear from me for a bit, it's because I've withdrawn. It's not because. I don't love you and I don't think about you constantly, but I don't remember to be in touch. And it's only when you think, when was the last time I phoned? [00:23:00] That's disgraceful. So I think that's the bit about finding out what people expect, but even though they're kind of, you know, writing your own expectations down so you can overlap them and go blimey so the person driving me is me. And there may be people in your life who do have high expectations. But at least it allows you to figure out who's got the expectations that are the equivalent of the moon on a stick and a pony called sparkle. And it's like, cause sometimes people do expect some stuff where you have to say, I'm just not going to be able to do that, but it's being able [00:23:30] to meet or manage and say, I would love to, and it's not possible for me.

Mary-Ellen: Yeah.

Hazel: And yeah, I know particularly a lot of high performing women, but high performing people in general who push themselves to get that cherry on the top of the cake rather than, did anybody want this? Let's just check first, we're not building ice cream sundaes. People are looking at going, what the heck, what is this?

Mary-Ellen: So, I mean, in very, very typical ADHD style, actually, um, we knew a lockdown was coming. It had become, got to the point where it was very evident. Also, my sister is, uh, she's a consultant in Sheffield. She works in palliative care. So she was part of the city's kind of COVID planning. And I was talking to her and she was, you know, [00:24:30] she was saying it's all very distressing. It's gonna be really hard. Doctors and nurses are going to be working shifts that just go on and on and on. And, you know, we're not gonna be able to see their families. And I was like, that is awful. What can we do to help? And she sort of suggested that providing hot meals would be welcome. And so when it was clear the restaurant was going to close, I was sort of, you know, I was thinking, well, all this food is going to go in the bin.

Fast forward 24 hours and the restaurant was packed to the rafters with food and I was sort of thinking, you know, God, I better get some help with this. Um, and I'd started making enquiries with sort of local hospitals and, and wards asking if people wanted deliveries and quite a lot of people were saying yes.

And they, they did a lot of catering type training and had a cafe. So they'd been asked by the council to provide some meals for rough sleepers [00:26:00] who were being housed in a hotel and they couldn't manage it all. So she just, Siobhan, the, Managing director, I think she is. She called me and she said, can you help?

Can you get 70 meals to a hotel in Gorton in three hours? I was like, well, yes.

We'd run, we'd run on donate, like donated food up to that point, but we got to the point where we needed to start to organize and order food in and things and people wanted to give us money. So we formalized into a CIC. We'd formalized by the May. It just went from there. And we like, we've always, it's been really important to us from the start that [00:27:00] we wanted to make sure it was all about food made by chefs with really nice ingredients and like a small number, but a small number of meals, but hopefully big impacts on the individuals that are receiving them, but in November Last year, we, we passed our 100,000th meal delivered. Wow.

Hazel: Congratulations.

Mary-Ellen: And people are still constantly approaching us, asking us how they can help. People are still, like, you know, four, it's four years on now.

Mary-Ellen: Yeah. I mean, that was, that feels like the best thing I've, I've heard. done or been involved in for sure. It's absolutely like a heart and soul project. I mean, now I look back and I think that was a bit mad, but, but still, yeah, we did it.

Hazel: That's fantastic. My final question, what's the future look like now?

Try not to take on too much, trying to take rest, trying to sort of focus on the, the really important things. Like [00:28:30] seeing friends and family and I still, I mean, I still have that runaway train in my mind that like, you know, I want to do everything, but, um, yeah, I think I'm, I'm definitely, uh, I'm definitely appreciating the sort of slower pace of life.

I talk about this a lot, and it works for compassion for others too, but I'm going to walk you [00:29:30] backwards through the formula when you're thinking about yourself. To be a bit kinder on yourself, the first step is drop the judgment. If you're neurodivergent, it's probably a mix of genetic factors and early environment.

Understanding helps you to find the right distance to look at your situation. You can zoom in, To check in on your feelings. I mean, this can be quite the rollercoaster. Mary-Ellen talked about the fear of not being diagnosed. That inner critic that says, what if I'm just a bit shit? I felt the same way.

And it's three times more likely to be identified in men than women. In the US, it's one in ten. Being able to explain without judgment why Mary-Ellen is the way she paved the way to doing things [00:31:00] differently and finding a way to live and work in balance with her nature. Not fighting it or blaming herself when she lost an unfair fight.

And that includes yourself, when you can acknowledge what you find easy and what you find hard. With no judgment, cognitive empathy means keeping your curious intellect in play, rather than getting overwhelmed by the emotion. And this takes research to understand your condition. Do talk to your doctor first.

So when I say research, I mean evidence based research that has been peer reviewed, not some bloke's blog. The timing of this episode was Really weird. The fact that I'd have my own diagnosis on the morning I spoke to her [00:32:30] and what really resonated with me is when she talked about the grief she experienced after, when she reflected back on perhaps what she'd lost that she didn't need to, or she wouldn't started the businesses, she would have done them differently.

And it's been able to go back to that idea of it might be late, but it's not too late. So I'm 57 and it felt very weird to be getting a diagnosis of ADHD at my age, because I'm almost coming to the end of my working life. And yet actually there's still some great years to [00:33:30] go and maybe I can do things differently. Now I understand better.

So use those strengths. For ADHD there can be hyper focus, resilience, creativity, conversational skills, spontaneity, and a lot of energy. And some suggestions are that the ADHD brains have a later circadian rhythm, which is the sleep wake cycle. [00:35:00] They could make great night watchmen or hunters, but being a night owl who needs to get up early is asking to be exhausted.

So challenge your time estimations. If you think something's going to take two minutes, give yourself 10 to focus and then leave a reminder of what you're going back to. If you're asked to do something, count to 10 and then check your diary. Because everything you say yes to means saying no to something else.

My thanks to Mary-Ellen for sharing her story. I hope you [00:36:30] enjoyed this episode of Endings. And if you'd like to share your thoughts, well, I'd love to hear them. You can reach me at hazelshowell on LinkedIn, Or HazelCS on X. I also have a compassion worksheet that I mentioned that's specifically for listeners of this episode.

I'm Hazel Showell, and I hope you'll join me again for another episode of Endings.