Jed: 00:00:08

Hello Charter Folk.

Jed: 00:00:09

Delighted to have you here and delighted to have our guest today.

Jed: 00:00:12

We're very fortunate today to have a chance to talk to Diana Diaz-Harrison,

Jed: 00:00:17

who is the founder of Arizona Autism Charter Schools, which was the recent

Jed: 00:00:24

winner of the YASS Prize nationally.

Jed: 00:00:26

Diana, let's bring you on right now, and just delighted to have you here.

Jed: 00:00:31

Welcome to Charter Folk.

Jed: 00:00:32

Congratulations on the YA Prize.

Jed: 00:00:35

Congratulations on having made a school that is perceived by so many to be making

Jed: 00:00:39

such a great difference and inspiring a lot in our movement to do even more.

Jed: 00:00:43

There's all sorts of things I'd love to dive into, but just because of your

Jed: 00:00:46

knowledge around autism generally and just the questions that so many people

Jed: 00:00:50

society have about this, I wanted to start focusing on that I thought that

Jed: 00:00:55

I knew a fair deal about autism myself, but to visit the CDC and see that the

Jed: 00:01:00

incidents of autism identification in 2004 was one in every fifty-five kids

Jed: 00:01:07

or something, thereabouts, I'm sorry, one in like one hundred sixty-six kids.

Jed: 00:01:12

And now we see, it's at one in 54, and some folks are saying it may be

Jed: 00:01:19

even a, a smaller number than that.

Jed: 00:01:21

So we are seeing a large increase in the identification and most people

Jed: 00:01:25

are celebrating this absolutely as an indicator that we're doing a far greater

Jed: 00:01:29

job of just finding folks that have autism and being able to respond accordingly.

Jed: 00:01:35

But others are also identifying, perhaps we're seeing a higher

Jed: 00:01:37

incidence, that autism is actually happening more in society.

Jed: 00:01:41

Can you tell me how do we parse this information?

Jed: 00:01:43

What's your per personal opinion on these issues given your expertise?

Diana: 00:01:47

I definitely think that there's more awareness of autism as

Diana: 00:01:52

a neurodiversity, and as different communities get better access to

Diana: 00:01:57

healthcare and medical diagnoses as schools become more proficient

Diana: 00:02:04

in their school evaluations in identifying autism, that has contributed

Diana: 00:02:10

to a higher incidence of autism.

Diana: 00:02:14

In particular, for example, here in Arizona, we have a large Hispanic

Diana: 00:02:18

community, and I think eliminating or reducing the stigma associated

Diana: 00:02:24

with autism has helped many kids and families seek diagnosis sooner than

Diana: 00:02:30

later, and that is what we want because early intervention is very important

Diana: 00:02:36

in serving children with autism.

Diana: 00:02:39

So I think eliminating the stigma has contributed to teasing out autism

Diana: 00:02:47

from other developmental conditions and having more awareness has also

Diana: 00:02:53

led to higher rates of diagnosis.

Jed: 00:02:57

Yeah, I was fascinated to see that the delta between autism identification

Jed: 00:03:01

rates in caucasian students and in black students has basically evaporated

Jed: 00:03:06

over the 20 years that I was previously referencing, although it looks as though

Jed: 00:03:09

black students are identified with autism later than white students are.

Jed: 00:03:14

And when you're talking about, early intervention being so important,

Jed: 00:03:17

we can see how that disparity could have profound consequences.

Jed: 00:03:21

And I still see that, tell me what can you just explain what the

Jed: 00:03:27

consequences are for identifying later and, and why we should be so in

Jed: 00:03:32

focused on getting even better at this?

Diana: 00:03:35

Yeah.

Diana: 00:03:35

So early intervention for kids on the spectrum, on the autism

Diana: 00:03:39

spectrum is all about your learning to learn skills, right?

Diana: 00:03:42

How to attend to a person or a task, or acquiring functional communication,

Diana: 00:03:50

because a lot of kids on the spectrum have communication gaps, that's

Diana: 00:03:55

one of the core symptoms of autism.

Diana: 00:03:57

So they have a lot of catching up to do that doesn't happen

Diana: 00:04:01

through the natural environment.

Diana: 00:04:03

There are specific therapeutic interventions that are evidence-based

Diana: 00:04:08

that need to be worked on intensively during the early years, that's pre

Diana: 00:04:13

five years old, that's from when, as early as, two years old to when a

Diana: 00:04:18

child becomes school age at five old.

Diana: 00:04:21

So that's why early intervention really makes a difference.

Diana: 00:04:26

As when children are young, their grades are more moldable as well, they're

Diana: 00:04:30

making more neurological connections that can really make or break really

Diana: 00:04:38

a student successful start in school.

Diana: 00:04:41

Of course some of our students have never had access to these, to early

Diana: 00:04:47

intervention or official diagnoses, but their parents know, they need a

Diana: 00:04:51

specialty program because what they were doing in typical school wasn't working

Diana: 00:04:56

out and we do everything that we can to catch them up, in terms of their

Diana: 00:05:02

basic learning to learn skills, shape behavior, so that they're able to access

Diana: 00:05:08

learning through a school environment, and that's a huge part of what we do.

Diana: 00:05:13

. Jed: Yeah.

Diana: 00:05:13

My experience is primarily anecdotal here and having a couple teenagers in the

Diana: 00:05:17

household with a lot of friends, several of whom have been identified, but to be

Diana: 00:05:21

able to see the difference between those that were identified earlier in their

Diana: 00:05:24

lives versus some of our friends that have been identified just in the last

Diana: 00:05:29

year or two, it's a very different overall profile for that kids' experience in

Diana: 00:05:35

school, that kids' experience growing up.

Diana: 00:05:37

So early identification is obviously very important.

Diana: 00:05:41

And it's something that also relates to how our overall public

Diana: 00:05:44

education world is doing relative to identification and support.

Diana: 00:05:49

I wonder, so we see that the identification rates

Diana: 00:05:51

have increased over time.

Diana: 00:05:53

How would you assess like our K-12 readiness?

Diana: 00:05:57

Are we doing a decent job?

Diana: 00:05:59

Are we getting better at this?

Diana: 00:06:00

Where are the very big problems that still remain?

Diana: 00:06:03

And maybe where do you see opportunities for the charter world to provide

Diana: 00:06:07

some critically needed leadership in terms of improving autism support

Diana: 00:06:11

across the entire K-12 establishment?

Diana: 00:06:13

I would say I'm super grateful that here in Arizona we were able to

Diana: 00:06:18

start a charter school, using best practices that are typically only seen

Diana: 00:06:25

in clinical settings or private schools.

Diana: 00:06:29

Schools like mine do exist, but they're 40 to $50,000 a year, and that's just

Diana: 00:06:35

not accessible for most families.

Diana: 00:06:37

I paid that for a couple of years and couldn't keep going in that trajectory.

Diana: 00:06:43

So I learned that in other states like Florida, there was a successful tuition

Diana: 00:06:47

free autism charter, and I thought, our state with the high incidence of

Diana: 00:06:53

autism and parents seeking solutions that were just not being listened to

Diana: 00:06:59

in typical mainstream district schools.

Diana: 00:07:01

It was about time that Arizona had a model that was best practice and tuition free

Diana: 00:07:08

and completely prioritizing the smaller, more personalized learning environments

Diana: 00:07:15

that are needed by children with autism.

Diana: 00:07:17

So I think we are really blazing the trail to show what school for kids

Diana: 00:07:23

with autism should look like to help the students become as fulfilled,

Diana: 00:07:29

independent, and creative and community contributors of post-secondary.

Diana: 00:07:36

I think most districts do have a SPED program, but these programs, as

Diana: 00:07:43

a mom, I experienced, they were all about what the kid couldn't do and

Diana: 00:07:48

what the school was not going to do.

Diana: 00:07:50

And it was all about what is free and appropriate, because that's the law

Diana: 00:07:57

to have to be an appropriate public education, but what's appropriate

Diana: 00:08:02

to an education bureaucrat is completely different than what's

Diana: 00:08:07

appropriate for an autism mom.

Diana: 00:08:10

So there were many directions that I could have gone, like many parents,

Diana: 00:08:15

I hired advocates, attorneys, and all of this thing, and at the end of the

Diana: 00:08:20

day I realize that, even if I win, this program is going to be forced.

Diana: 00:08:26

It's not going to be a program that's done with the intentionality and love

Diana: 00:08:32

that I want for my kid, like a parent paying 50 to $100,000 a year at the most

Diana: 00:08:39

prestigious autism private programs.

Diana: 00:08:42

So I researched what a charter school could look like, what the fund funding

Diana: 00:08:49

formula was and it became very feasible that if our state approved our charter,

Diana: 00:08:59

that we could make better use of the funds, by having it in a charter

Diana: 00:09:05

model that was driven by parents than by bureaucrats who were just about

Diana: 00:09:11

telling us what our kids couldn't do and what they were not going to do.

Jed: 00:09:17

So it's reminding me, I'm just coming back from a visit with my

Jed: 00:09:21

parents, and they have a group of friends that know that their son

Jed: 00:09:26

is obsessed with charter schools.

Jed: 00:09:28

And so those friends will send articles to them, and so when I got to see mom this

Jed: 00:09:34

weekend, she had these articles there.

Jed: 00:09:36

The top article was about how well charter schools are doing with foster youth.

Jed: 00:09:41

And it was a story of a particular school and a particular, I happen to know that

Jed: 00:09:45

school and leader very well, but I also know the background of that school, which

Jed: 00:09:49

was the entry point, was we don't wanna do this in the context of a charter, we are

Jed: 00:09:53

going to do it within the broader system and just spinning wheels for eight, ten,

Jed: 00:09:58

I think it was longer than 10 years before this incredible school got started, but

Jed: 00:10:03

once people realized, that running at the problem they're most passionate with

Jed: 00:10:06

about within the charter school context was what they were focused on, wow, why

Jed: 00:10:11

are you may able to make more progress?

Jed: 00:10:13

Right.

Jed: 00:10:14

So I see you in a very comparable situation, there's

Jed: 00:10:17

a clear problem in the world.

Jed: 00:10:19

There's a clear problem in our education world to respond to that broader

Jed: 00:10:22

societal problem and now we need to unleash people to come up with the

Jed: 00:10:27

solutions that are desperately needed.

Jed: 00:10:29

It sounds to me as like you, it's very similar to what you had.

Jed: 00:10:33

Tell me a little bit about what was it like to become a charter folk?

Jed: 00:10:35

Did you resist it in the beginning?

Jed: 00:10:36

Did you have other ways that you wanted to do it?

Jed: 00:10:38

Or did it wasn't natural for you to think about it really early in the process?

Jed: 00:10:42

No, I mean, it wasn't my first thought, I was basically just a mom

Jed: 00:10:49

needing a better education solution for my kid who was highly impacted by

Jed: 00:10:55

autism, but I was a little bit spoiled because I did get him into early

Jed: 00:11:00

intervention of the best type early on.

Jed: 00:11:04

And, while I saw how he was in a typical principal, which was a disaster just

Jed: 00:11:13

sensory overload, large class size teacher who had no idea what to do with him.

Jed: 00:11:19

He was very bouncy, more so than typical preschoolers.

Jed: 00:11:25

Then he went into small group and one-on-one early intervention that was

Jed: 00:11:30

based on applied behavior analysis, which is backed by more than 50 years

Jed: 00:11:34

of research to produce best outcomes for kids like my son with autism.

Jed: 00:11:40

And I thought, bingo, we're gonna keep doing that.

Jed: 00:11:42

We're going to do that until he doesn't need as much deliberate support.

Jed: 00:11:49

And so we did, a few years of early intervention, then when he became school

Jed: 00:11:55

age, they weren't doing that, even though the district had an autism program,

Jed: 00:12:00

they said that all of the therapeutic practices were above and beyond pretty

Jed: 00:12:06

inappropriate, and I'm like, that's silly.

Jed: 00:12:09

We know this is what works for kids.

Jed: 00:12:11

Like my son, there's a class full of kids that learn the same way he does.

Jed: 00:12:17

And so then it all became, it's that horrible feeling of becoming

Jed: 00:12:22

adversary, you're, you become that mom that is a nag and not settling.

Jed: 00:12:32

So, again, I did the drill hired Agba kit and attorneys.

Jed: 00:12:37

He got put in a private placement.

Jed: 00:12:40

And that also just wasn't the way I wanted school to go for

Jed: 00:12:45

myself as a mom and for my son.

Jed: 00:12:48

So it was actually very refreshing to learn that other states had gone on a

Jed: 00:12:53

path to open charter schools that were based on applied behavior analysis

Jed: 00:12:59

and had all of the curriculum and instruction, the small groupings, the

Jed: 00:13:06

embedded therapies that were needed.

Jed: 00:13:08

And I pitched it to a lot of seasoned, educators or clinical people that

Jed: 00:13:15

worked with kids with autism, but nobody wanted to touch how

Jed: 00:13:19

litigious special education can be.

Jed: 00:13:23

And so after a lot of going around and closed doors, I decided, well if I really

Jed: 00:13:31

care about this, which I do, I'm going to have to form a team myself and I can.

Jed: 00:13:39

That is the charter folk story.

Jed: 00:13:40

And it's also, it's something that I think it's frustrating for our world

Jed: 00:13:46

to have to remember, but when we're sometimes accosted in the supermarket.

Jed: 00:13:52

You're a charter school supporter and I hear all this stuff, right?

Jed: 00:13:55

When you're able to go back and say what the problem was and your willingness

Jed: 00:14:01

to try to make it work in so many other different ways, and it's not working

Jed: 00:14:06

and then coming to this way, and it's in fact, working is a really great entry

Jed: 00:14:11

point for a redefined discussion with whomever it is that you're talking about.

Jed: 00:14:18

And it seems to be, and it seems to me like coming to see your school is

Jed: 00:14:22

probably a very important thing too.

Jed: 00:14:23

I know where the Governor of Arizona comes and many others come.

Jed: 00:14:28

But for those that haven't been able to make a personal visit to your school,

Jed: 00:14:31

and by the way, I'm coming to Arizona shortly and your school is absolutely the

Jed: 00:14:34

top of list, I can't wait to get there.

Jed: 00:14:36

But just equate our listeners or our viewers with how would you give

Jed: 00:14:42

the backstage path to how Arizona autism really works given that some

Jed: 00:14:47

of our folks are really educators and really understand how a lot of these

Jed: 00:14:50

kinds of programs are put together.

Diana: 00:14:53

Yeah, so I think the tricky thing with autism is

Diana: 00:14:57

that it is a spectrum, right?

Diana: 00:14:59

There are some folks who have very intensive behavioral and communication

Diana: 00:15:04

challenges and then there are kids who are on the autism spectrum, who are highly

Diana: 00:15:12

verbal and have no scattered skills.

Diana: 00:15:15

They might be very gifted in math, for example, but still struggle with language

Diana: 00:15:21

and communication and understanding social nuances, which become very

Diana: 00:15:27

important in middle and high school.

Diana: 00:15:28

So because we serve the whole spectrum, the way we group kids by abilities

Diana: 00:15:33

and needs, helps us be successful.

Diana: 00:15:36

We have programs for very intensive needs for high functioning students,

Diana: 00:15:42

and we have special programs for students falling somewhere in between,

Diana: 00:15:46

and we can only do that because our whole school serves kids with autism.

Diana: 00:15:51

In a typical district school, for example, you might have five kids on the spectrum.

Diana: 00:15:58

One of 'em is a high functioning math genius, another one is still

Diana: 00:16:02

needing toilet training and is very impacted, but they may be placed

Diana: 00:16:08

in the same autism classroom.

Diana: 00:16:10

It's almost not fair, it's very feasible for us to group students liabilities

Diana: 00:16:23

and needs and staff accordingly.

Diana: 00:16:27

Students that have a lot of needs, you'll see a two to one or even a

Diana: 00:16:31

one-on-one ratio because you're working on communication and functional skills.

Diana: 00:16:37

For our classes of kids who are higher functioning, it might look

Diana: 00:16:42

more like a typical classroom, but you really won't see more than twelve

Diana: 00:16:45

to thirteen kids, a lead teacher and two behavior support staff.

Diana: 00:16:50

In some cases, you might see therapists pushing in as well.

Diana: 00:16:54

And then every kid has a personalized learning program because there are

Diana: 00:16:59

a range of strengths and challenges that need to be worked on very

Diana: 00:17:05

deliberately with kids with autism.

Diana: 00:17:08

So in addition to obviously tracking how they're doing in language arts,

Diana: 00:17:12

math, science, we're also tracking their behavior, social skills, and their ability

Diana: 00:17:20

to navigate a group environment, which is a little harder for our kids, and so that

Diana: 00:17:28

all needs to be taught very deliberately.

Jed: 00:17:33

So that's a great backstage pass to the program.

Jed: 00:17:35

I would love to go further into this.

Jed: 00:17:37

Just being an old teacher myself and the only pushback I ever got from

Jed: 00:17:42

my parents was my father saying to me, I hear the charter schools don't

Jed: 00:17:46

serve special ed kids, and I was just assuring him, are you kidding me, dad?

Jed: 00:17:50

No.

Jed: 00:17:50

Every kid and every problem we think that we can run out

Jed: 00:17:54

with greater effectiveness.

Jed: 00:17:56

So I'd love to dive further into the details, but I have to recognize we

Jed: 00:18:00

only have so much time with you and there's so many other backstage passes

Jed: 00:18:03

you can equate our listeners with.

Jed: 00:18:05

Give me the backstage pass for the YASS Prize, I mean, congratulations again.

Jed: 00:18:10

All the applicants across the entire country and Arizona Autism is supported.

Jed: 00:18:15

Can you tell us, I mean, what was the most exciting moment and what

Jed: 00:18:19

has the experience been generally to have been recognized like this?

Diana: 00:18:23

Oh, it's been amazing and I'm so grateful that, I really love that

Diana: 00:18:29

the YASS Prize and other, other private funders as well are starting to recognize

Diana: 00:18:34

that there are various paths to success.

Diana: 00:18:38

While some students may go to college, other students may be entrepreneurial.

Diana: 00:18:44

We could equip them with the ability to start a business which is better

Diana: 00:18:48

suited to their personality and trait.

Diana: 00:18:51

And then other kids, that we serve might be in a facilited working

Diana: 00:18:57

environment because that's the support they need to be productive.

Diana: 00:19:01

And so just because a child is highly impacted or has different

Diana: 00:19:06

social skills, doesn't mean that they shouldn't be invested in.

Diana: 00:19:11

And so I was so grateful to be able to tell the stories of how our kids go

Diana: 00:19:17

from feeling defeated and the parents as well, because the whole education

Diana: 00:19:24

previous to us was all about their challenges and what they couldn't do.

Diana: 00:19:29

Whereas here we build up from their strengths and help them catch up on

Diana: 00:19:34

all those gap skills to be feel like fulfilled, productive students that

Diana: 00:19:39

leads to build productive citizens.

Diana: 00:19:42

We really, even though autism does have real challenges, we like to

Diana: 00:19:46

think of it as a neurodiversity.

Diana: 00:19:49

Over time there were likely a lot of people autism but they were just

Diana: 00:19:55

seen as eccentric or if you think about it in a scary way, they were in

Diana: 00:20:01

institutions if they had a lot of meaning.

Diana: 00:20:04

Nevertheless, it is an out of the box way of learning and seeing the world

Diana: 00:20:12

that if funnels appropriately, can help us solve a lot of challenge, and I think

Diana: 00:20:18

our kids can be amazing contributors.

Diana: 00:20:20

At our school we also have adopted the was ed curriculum for the STEAM

Diana: 00:20:24

learning projects, and our kids, once they have those learning to the learn

Diana: 00:20:29

skills and are engaged in hands-on projects with very interesting text

Diana: 00:20:35

materials, they thrive and sometimes they surprise their teachers because

Diana: 00:20:40

they come up with things that a typical brain would have a hard time doing.

Diana: 00:20:45

So I think when you see the kids as Neurodiverse even gifted and change

Diana: 00:20:52

the narrative about how they feel about themselves, how their family

Diana: 00:20:57

see them, how the community sees them.

Diana: 00:21:00

Then it's a whole different ballgame in terms of the possibility.

Jed: 00:21:06

So then, tell me about next chapters.

Jed: 00:21:09

So we have this exciting prize and I've heard a little bit, but I don't

Jed: 00:21:14

know too much about your vision for the future, how you might use these new

Jed: 00:21:18

resources to catalyze even more impact in Arizona and across the country.

Jed: 00:21:22

Tell me what you're thinking about for next chapters for Arizona Autism.

Diana: 00:21:27

Yes.

Diana: 00:21:28

So we do have a few more campuses planned for Arizona, our home state, and part

Diana: 00:21:34

of the gas price is going to help us launch the National Accelerator of Autism

Diana: 00:21:40

Charter schools because we believe this should be a choice no matter where you

Diana: 00:21:44

live or what state you're in, parents shouldn't be subjected to just mediocre

Diana: 00:21:52

to low performing programs because that's the only choice at their district.

Diana: 00:21:56

Or paying 50 to 60 to more thousand a year to go to private school, not sustainable

Diana: 00:22:05

for a lot of families or most families.

Diana: 00:22:08

So having a school choice charter solution that is focused on best

Diana: 00:22:15

practices for autismis in demand.

Diana: 00:22:18

We have students move from out-of-state to access our school.

Diana: 00:22:23

Last count, we had students from more than 30 states that had relocated

Diana: 00:22:28

to be able to attend our school.

Diana: 00:22:31

We've had parents accept jobs or decline jobs based on whether their

Diana: 00:22:36

child could attend our school.

Diana: 00:22:39

And we really feel that families shouldn't have to uproot and move

Diana: 00:22:44

to get a high quality specialty program for their children.

Diana: 00:22:48

In many cases, families have more than one child on the spectrum.

Diana: 00:22:52

We have families of three and four, and your kids are at different levels of

Diana: 00:22:57

the spectrum and we are grateful and blessed that we can serve them off.

Diana: 00:23:02

So this is something that the charter school movement can help us fast track

Diana: 00:23:10

and make available so that no family gets left behind just having to accept

Diana: 00:23:17

subpar programming for their kids.

Jed: 00:23:20

So I would imagine you're being somewhat selective about

Jed: 00:23:24

what states you want to go to.

Jed: 00:23:26

And it seems as though this effort, its success will hinge on whether

Jed: 00:23:33

or not the advocacy conditions permitted to happen and I'm sure there

Jed: 00:23:37

are many states where the existing status quo wouldn't make it work.

Jed: 00:23:43

Have you already been able to identify your subset of states that you would be

Jed: 00:23:48

prioritized for building the national accelerator of autism charter schools?

Diana: 00:23:55

So, Arizona and Florida have done this successfully because the funding

Diana: 00:24:00

formula for autism is pretty favorable.

Diana: 00:24:06

But we have had partners in other states who are working with less funding

Diana: 00:24:14

and adding funding through Medicaid billing for schools to make it work.

Diana: 00:24:20

So, of course we're going to go into charter friendly states first,

Diana: 00:24:25

we've identified Nevada and Texas.

Diana: 00:24:28

We know what it takes to educate to successfully, so there could be a

Diana: 00:24:34

number of funding screens from federal IDEA using title funds strategically

Diana: 00:24:41

using interns from universities to help elevate the staffing ratio.

Diana: 00:24:49

I mean, we parents will do whatever it takes and then slowly but surely

Diana: 00:24:54

work on getting the funding formula where it leads to be by serving as

Diana: 00:24:58

a proof point for what's possible when the right funding is in place.

Diana: 00:25:03

And also by when we have longer term data showing that our kids can be

Diana: 00:25:09

more self-sufficient when they've been through our educational program

Diana: 00:25:14

and they won't have to rely on the state for their entire adult life.

Diana: 00:25:20

They could also be contributing members of society.

Diana: 00:25:23

So yes, we will definitely go after states that are more favorable funding wise,

Diana: 00:25:30

but we're not going to give up there because students with autism families,

Diana: 00:25:35

kids with autism are everywhere and it would be amazing for families to have

Diana: 00:25:42

this option no matter where they live.

Jed: 00:25:45

A Lot of the advocacy challenge would pertain to any kind of school.

Jed: 00:25:49

What is the funding mechanism for autism and special needs kids generally, then we

Jed: 00:25:55

have the uniqueness of charter schools.

Jed: 00:25:58

What would your message be to the charter school advocates?

Jed: 00:26:04

X State, just greenfield.

Jed: 00:26:05

We don't know all of the rules yet.

Jed: 00:26:08

What are the things that the advocates should be thinking about to make sure that

Jed: 00:26:12

organizations like yours can thrive there?

Jed: 00:26:15

Obviously getting a generally favorable environment such that charters can get

Jed: 00:26:19

approved and we have a facility to be able to operate the program in something

Jed: 00:26:22

that alters schools have to look at.

Jed: 00:26:24

But then there are the specifics around funding mechanisms, and it sounds to

Jed: 00:26:28

me as though in Arizona and in Florida, there are funding mechanisms specific

Jed: 00:26:34

to children identified with autism that seems to be a key enabler and I know that

Jed: 00:26:39

there are many other states that don't have such funding specific to autism or

Jed: 00:26:44

anything like that, but where there's this like general funding that's available and

Jed: 00:26:47

somehow you're supposed to make it work.

Jed: 00:26:49

Whomever the kids are that show up at your front door.

Jed: 00:26:52

Tell me what's the right way for our advocates, from a charter school

Jed: 00:26:55

perspective, to be thinking about this so that we can make sure schools like

Jed: 00:26:59

yours can grow in many other states?

Diana: 00:27:01

I think there's a case to be made for special population schools for sure,

Diana: 00:27:07

because when we are serving, for example in our case, most of our population is

Diana: 00:27:14

on the autism spectrum, the economies of scales that can happen and the

Diana: 00:27:19

bruisings that are specific to children's abilities and needs are more successful

Diana: 00:27:25

and therefore more cost effective.

Diana: 00:27:28

So, while some of our detractors may say students on the spectrum would

Diana: 00:27:34

be better off in a typical mainstream environment, isn't that what you want?

Diana: 00:27:39

Most parents like me have tried that and our kids, even though they

Diana: 00:27:44

may be in a class of 25 typical kids, they're more isolated than

Diana: 00:27:49

ever and in some cases even unsafe.

Diana: 00:27:52

So having these smaller specialty environments, is more successful,

Diana: 00:27:58

more cost effective, in terms of what it costs the state for a person with

Diana: 00:28:02

autism across the lifespan, doing this investment during K-12 can be less

Diana: 00:28:10

reliance on the space in the future.

Diana: 00:28:13

I think that's definitely getting more of our kids on the spectrum in the workforce

Diana: 00:28:18

is part of a of the biggest driver for us.

Diana: 00:28:22

Again, whether it's independent employment facilitated employment, no matter what

Diana: 00:28:27

it is we are all working towards having our kids not be re relying on safe

Diana: 00:28:33

services for the rest of their life and I think that cost analysis, investment

Diana: 00:28:39

and cost analysis should be a driver for making a case for specialty charters like

Diana: 00:28:46

ours that are going to prioritize best practice for a very high needs population.

Jed: 00:28:54

I'm not gonna get middle in the middle of this, of the disagreement

Jed: 00:28:58

or the discussion that's ongoing about whether full inclusion is

Jed: 00:29:02

the right way or whether or not specialty schools are the right way.

Jed: 00:29:06

What I love is Charter Folk passionate about their issues, being able to

Jed: 00:29:12

pursue their view with the freedom and the funding necessary to get it done.

Jed: 00:29:18

And it seems to me.

Diana: 00:29:19

At the end of the day, it's parents' choice.

Diana: 00:29:22

They should be able to pick, if they really want to make it work in a

Diana: 00:29:25

mainstream environment, go for it.

Diana: 00:29:28

If that's not work for you.

Diana: 00:29:31

Then most parents seek out a private option, but then they

Diana: 00:29:35

realize they can't afford it.

Diana: 00:29:37

So that's where we come in to be that smaller specialty option that is

Diana: 00:29:43

accessible cause it's tuition free.

Jed: 00:29:46

And so it seems to me as though one of the problems that we have is that we

Jed: 00:29:49

simply don't Identify kids early enough and provide the resources to the parents

Jed: 00:29:55

regardless of where they choose to enroll their kids, and if we would get that done

Jed: 00:29:59

well, then it would enable both those parents that want to see their kids served

Jed: 00:30:03

within a full inclusion environment, provide the resources to properly

Jed: 00:30:07

test whether it's the right place.

Jed: 00:30:08

And also if they'd like to have their kids in enrolled in a place

Jed: 00:30:11

like Arizona autism, they would be able to have that choice as well.

Jed: 00:30:15

And we advocates, I think we need to be doing a better job of keeping

Jed: 00:30:21

both front and center for us.

Jed: 00:30:23

We are about going to put our thumbs on the scale either way.

Jed: 00:30:26

We want parents that were in the situation that you were in not so long ago with

Jed: 00:30:30

your son to be in a fundamentally better place and for schools to have been

Jed: 00:30:34

freed up to do exciting new things.

Jed: 00:30:37

I'll end with us what last question for you, because we can get involved in like

Jed: 00:30:42

funding and advocacy and political fights and all that stuff, but in the end it's

Jed: 00:30:46

just what is the positive difference that we're making in kids' lives?

Jed: 00:30:50

Obviously, as a mom, you made a huge difference in the life of your own

Jed: 00:30:54

son, but now you've made a difference in the life of so many other children.

Jed: 00:31:01

So many different experiences are different.

Jed: 00:31:02

And you're staying, the autism spectrum is very wide, there's no one best thing.

Jed: 00:31:07

But is there any general viewpoint, is there any rule of thumb that

Jed: 00:31:13

you would just wish was more understood among the educator world?

Jed: 00:31:18

About how we can more effectively, serve autism kids and autism and families

Jed: 00:31:23

where autism kids are within it?

Diana: 00:31:26

I think the smaller and personalized learning programs that are

Diana: 00:31:33

data driven for each student and the project based learning that allows kids

Diana: 00:31:38

to have agency in how they apply their foundational skills and something that

Diana: 00:31:43

is of high interest to them has been truly magical for us because kids with

Diana: 00:31:49

autism are known to have very thick.

Diana: 00:31:54

Right?

Diana: 00:31:54

We have kids, for example, that memorize every license plate in the parking lot.

Diana: 00:32:00

So you don't have to learn some foundational skills where they can also

Diana: 00:32:05

track data on license plates would be.

Diana: 00:32:08

Yes, that would make them wanna go to school every day because they get to

Diana: 00:32:13

have a project that's based on their interest, but they're also applying some

Diana: 00:32:18

foundational skills that are critical for navigating the school, growing in their

Diana: 00:32:25

academics and at some point applying what they know to an employment opportunity

Diana: 00:32:32

or an entrepreneurship opportunity.

Diana: 00:32:34

But I think all of the things that we know are good for kids on the spectrum are the

Diana: 00:32:40

smaller sizes, the embedded behavioral supports that are all positive behavior

Diana: 00:32:45

supports, are things that we're starting to notice are beneficial for kids.

Diana: 00:32:52

A lot of kids now have gaps in learning loss and have traumas of many sorts.

Diana: 00:32:59

And so, whereas now, social emotional learning is kind of the fun, we've been

Diana: 00:33:06

doing behavioral and social emotional of learning all along because it's required,

Diana: 00:33:13

for kids on the autism group spectrum to work on behavior, while you're also

Diana: 00:33:19

working on academic skill aquisition.

Diana: 00:33:22

So I think the pendulum is swing swinging for sure, where parents are opting out of

Diana: 00:33:28

big giant programs and doing micro school.

Diana: 00:33:31

Why?

Diana: 00:33:32

Because their kids get more attention if they really get to know their peers.

Diana: 00:33:37

And a teacher that's serving 10 kids versus a teacher serving 28 kids,

Diana: 00:33:43

their emotional needs as well as their learning will be tracked better.

Diana: 00:33:48

And I think there is a lot of value to that personalized support

Diana: 00:33:54

that really all kids are craving.

Diana: 00:33:57

Many of us grew up in big classrooms and didn't have this available

Diana: 00:34:03

and, we tolerated that, right?

Diana: 00:34:06

Perhaps we tolerated not doing projects that were not interested

Diana: 00:34:12

or being in a big group and kind of figuring stuff out on your own.

Diana: 00:34:16

Kids on the spectrum are a little bit more truthful in that if something is

Diana: 00:34:21

not reaching them or not interesting to them, they'll tell you or they'll

Diana: 00:34:26

let you know with their behavior.

Diana: 00:34:28

So I think that as educators, we should really see that as cues for evolving

Diana: 00:34:36

how we reach students, and really giving them foundational skills and then

Diana: 00:34:43

agency and how they apply those skills.

Diana: 00:34:47

That's really what worked well for us, and it's something that we want to replicate

Diana: 00:34:53

so that other kids on the spectrum and families can just feel better about

Diana: 00:34:58

what their kids are doing in school.

Jed: 00:35:00

Absolutely.

Jed: 00:35:01

It reminds me of the language we used at High Tech High where we realized that some

Jed: 00:35:06

of the language around special education and other supports for kids with unique

Jed: 00:35:10

needs sometimes focuses on deficit.

Jed: 00:35:12

And we forget that, that IEP, which can often be deficit associated

Jed: 00:35:17

individual education plan.

Jed: 00:35:19

Are you kidding me?

Jed: 00:35:20

We want every kid to receive an individualized education plan.

Jed: 00:35:25

We want every student to receive special education and there are some leaders,

Jed: 00:35:29

who take advantage of the charter school landscape to help advance an awareness

Jed: 00:35:34

tthat's what we want for all kids.

Jed: 00:35:36

And you're helping us do that, Diana.

Jed: 00:35:38

So thank you so much for the time you spent with us.

Jed: 00:35:41

Thank you so much for the progress that you're making on behalf of all the

Jed: 00:35:44

kids that you're serving in Arizona.

Jed: 00:35:46

But I'll leave a special thank you for just changing the discussion nationally.

Jed: 00:35:50

Cause I think through your work we're going to see just a huge

Jed: 00:35:53

number of kids more effectively served in the decades to come.

Jed: 00:35:57

Thank you so much.

Jed: 00:35:59

Thank you