How do you know whether a psychic is legitimate, ethical, and truly helping their clients?

In this episode of the Spirit Sherpa podcast, Kelle Sparta sits down with Lisa Campion, creator of Energy Healing for Empaths and bestselling author of The Art of Psychic Reiki, to discuss psychic ability, intuition, and the warning signs of poor psychic work. Together they explore what separates skilled, ethical psychics from those who rely on fear, ego, or performance.

You'll learn:

• How to identify red flags in psychic readings
• The difference between intuition and performance
• What ethical psychic practice looks like
• Common misconceptions about psychic abilities
• How to choose a psychic you can trust

This episode is especially relevant for spiritual practitioners, developing psychics, and anyone seeking intuitive guidance while avoiding common pitfalls.

Learn more about Lisa Campion at Lisa Campion's website. www.lisacampion.com

 This is Kelle Sparta, and you are listening to another episode of Spirit Sherpa, the show that helps and encourages you on your journey to unlock your magic mojo. Jules is not with us today, not because she didn't wanna be, not because she wasn't here, but because her headset refused to allow her to talk in a way that would be really not obnoxious to listen to.

So, uh, with that, it's going to be just me and my buddy, amazing master psychic healer, author, fantastic all-around guru, my friend Lisa Campion, and we're gonna be talking about bad psychic, no biscuit. So buckle up, buttercups, it's gonna be an entertaining ride. Welcome, Lisa. I'm so glad to have you back.

Thanks, Kelle. I love talking to you. I love being on your podcast. It's so fun. Oh, I've been looking forward to this day for so long. You just don't even know, so this one's gonna be a fun one. It's gonna be a little more snarky than I usually get, but I think it's necessary because how do people know if they're doing things that are fucked up if we don't tell them, right?

And I think that's part of, you know, community service message. Part of the problem I think that people have with psychics is there's a lot of bad psychics out there. All the bad psychics that are out there give us good psychics a bad name, you know? And I mean, the bad psychics go back, like, into the history of psychics, like way back in the day when the spiritualist, uh, spiritualism was really huge and there were a lot of fraudulent psychics, you know?

And, and people like Harry Houdini, like, made his... Like, when he wasn't doing Houdini things, he was going around and busting bad psychics, um, who were taking advantage of people. There was so much death back then, so many people lost. You know, there's death everywhere, and to bring comfort. And there are definitely the real-deal people, you know, who really do it, who really can bring forth a loved one, but there was a lot of people who were, like, using all kinds of, like, things to make their tables rattle or put, like, put little symbols between their knees to clap, ma- to make the knocks happen and, um, would, would find out in advance, like, who, who they were supposed to be talking and research them and get the right information.

Um, and, and Harry Houdini really hated that a lot, and lots of people did because it was taking advantage of people who were, who needed help, who were suffering. And I think that's kinda like where, where the charlatan psychics... I mean, maybe there were, like, fake Oracles of Delphi too, like making some money way back then.

Who knows? We don't know that, but- Yeah. But, you know, statistically speaking, it's a good chance, right? Yeah. Yeah. No doubt there was. There was the, there was the, the Greek, you know, ancient Greek version of the bad psychic I'm sure. Yes. So and but bad psychics aren't just people who are, who are con artists, right?

They're also sometimes well-meaning people. So, so let's, let's classify what we mean by bad psychic, right? So we, we've established that- The con artist is a problem. But then there's the people who just have really bad boundaries Yeah, there's a lot of those. And I, I feel like they're people who have, like, they're pretty psychic, but maybe they didn't get a- the right training.

There's not a lot of people that are talking about the ethics that are involved in the information that we get, and I'm kind of a, a ... It's kind of like I'm a real stickler for that. It's like my little hobby horse to get in and talk about ethics. And a lot pe- a lot of people that don't have, hadn't had proper psychic training are getting their ideas about how this is supposed to work from watching TV shows or watching, like, the medium of such and such a place, you know?

Yeah, let's, let's wander around and accost people and tell them things that they didn't ask to know. It's like, really? And let's do it on television. Yeah. And I call it the psychic hit-and-run, but of course that's not what's happening for real. Like on t- on television it's all predetermined, it's rehearsed.

And that person signed 800 million waivers before they got on TV. And it looks like a psychic hit-and-run, but even that isn't, you know. But the psychic hit-and-runs can happen. Like one of my clients told me this story about how a woman ... She's a student in my, in my psychic development program. She was getting her hair done.

She lives in a really small town in the middle of nowhere, and her hairdresser was tuning into her and like spilling all of this personal stuff in the middle of this hair salon in a, in a very small town on a Saturday, which is where everybody was. And she was like, "Oh, you're having problems in your marriage, and you're having like, one of your kids is in trouble at school."

And my friend, my student said the worst thing about it was she got, she was accurate. You know, she got the truth, but my student was so horrified, so ... To have her business s- without a permission, without any idea about like how, the impact this had on her family and herself, and then she's like, "I can't be friends with you anymore."

And the, and the hairdresser was all mad, like she's, "What are you..." She just wanted like brownie points for being right. Didn't take anything into account about the damage she was doing or the fact that she was violating privacy or, you know. I mean, it's a huge violation, right? So, so rule number one: do not read somebody without their permission.

That's rule number one. It's first and foremost, above anything else. If you wanna have any friends at all, don't do it. And I have like a real, like, um, even with my friends, you know, I tell them upfront like I'm not gonna send my kids, I'm not gonna say anything unless you ask. And guess what? They hardly ever do, especially my kids.

Yeah. I n- I never do a read for my husband unless I get a hit really hard that he needs to not leave the house right now or else he'll die, and I've had that happen once. Oh, my goodness. And, and even in that case I would be like, I'd still probably be like, "Hey, you know, there's something I'm picking up.

Do you wanna know about it?" I might... I mean, if it was a case of life or death I might just blurt it out Yeah, I just looked at him and said, "Hang out for another 15 minutes." And he was like, "What?" I'm like, "You can't leave right now." And he was like, "Why?" I said, "You'll die." I'm like, "Just sit down and s- wait for 15 minutes.

Like, in 15 minutes you can go." He's like, "But I'll be late." I said, "Uh-huh, and then everyone in the car will live. It's okay." And he was just like... 'Cause he was meeting his friends, and they were driving together, and I was like, "Nope, you can't leave yet." That one I was not gonna sit on It's like it's life or death, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna sit on it.

But anything else, yeah. It's like, like the, the day that I s- I packed a bag for Cathy when she was going to the airport. I didn't even know what it was. I just was like, "I need to give you some food." She's like, "It's a two and a half hour flight." I'm like, "I don't know. I just need to send you with food. Is that okay?"

And she's like, "Sure." So I gave her the biggest bag I thought I could get her to take, which was the very limit of what she was willing to take, and nine hours later she texted me from the airport and said, uh, "I ate absolutely everything in that bag, and I could have eaten more. Thank you. I'm still at the airport.

They haven't let us get on the bo- get on the flight yet, and all the food stalls are closed." But even then, I asked permission, right? I was, uh, I, I just... I started packing the bag, and I was... She's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "I have to give you food. I don't know why." But she could have said no, and I would have been like, "Okay, you don't have to take the food.

It's fine." Because everybody has their own choice. They have their own volition. They, they, they get to choose. In fact, I hopped on the subway in, in Boston, on the T, early on in my psychic career, and I looked at the guy across from me and I went, "Oh, transvestite." And he was immaculately dressed in men's clothing.

Might, like high-end, expensive suit and tie, everything, and I looked to see if there was like nail polish or something that I picked up on or something. Nothing. I had just cold read him and knew for a fact he was a transvestite, and I was horrified with myself. And I just... I completely changed the way that I held my energy after that, because I was like, "I just violated this man's privacy.

That was not mine to know. I am very upset with myself, and I have no reason to, to... This was unacceptable." And I completely changed the way that I did my psychic readings from... You know, b- held myself psychically from there forward, because I didn't ever wanna do that again. Right. I know, it's so hard. And I, I f- to me it's like, you know, like, let's, like how do you do that?

Like, so when you're... When... A lot of times when our psychic is first opening, we don't have any control over it, you know? And we're getting all this flood of information, whether we like it or not, about the people we're around, about family members. You know, one of my psychic students said she just stopped going out in public.

She stopped going to parties. She was like picking up all this stuff she didn't wanna know about her, the people in her office. I put a psychic helmet on. Like those two are having an affair. Like, eh. And it was like way too much information. She didn't wanna know. Of course she didn't say anything, but she didn't even wanna know about it.

So tell me about your psychic helmet. Yeah. So I, I just saw it as a psychic helmet. Like literally saw it as this metal helmet that I put over my head, and when I wasn't actively trying to read somebody, that it just shut down all psychic input. And I did that until I learned how to manage it. Yeah. I have a similar thing that I, I did when I was a kid, which is like the TV remote control, you know, like turning it off, turning the volume down, changing the channel, turning the picture off, like all those different things.

That worked for me pretty-- That works for me pretty well too Um, you know, there have been situations where people have been bad psychics at me. So, like, I remember being a reader, and somebody was com- somebody came in behind me, and I could feel her rooting around in my head before I had good shields. Um, and sh- I, she was going, "Is she any good?

Is she any good?" And she's, like, rooting around in my head doing this, and I looked at her and I said, "I'm very good. Now stop it. Do you want a reading or not?" And she was just like... I said, "You need to get out of my head right now, and you need to sit down because we need to have a conversation about your, the strength of your natural abilities and the fact that if I was somebody else, you would be in a lot of pain right now because I would have snapped your, your psychic skills back so hard that it blinded you for a while, possibly permanently if you had the wrong person."

So, you know, because you invaded my energy, right? And that's, that's a problem. And but she had no idea she was doing it. No clue. Right. Most people don't. The, I mean, some people are invading on purpose. For that, we go back to the, the, the psy- the charlatans and the, you know, r- predatory energy vampires and, you know, people like that.

But a lot of people just if you didn't have any boundaries as a kid or you had a family that didn't have any boundaries, where, you know, the, and the stronger dysfunction there was in your family, the worse your boundaries are gonna be. So people... And it's a lot, it's often true with the empath community, which is a community I teach and work in, work with a lot, where people, they're so sensitive and they feel victimized a lot, but they have no idea that if they're not careful, they're, they can be incredibly invad- invasive as well.

You know, like, "Oh my God, I, I would never invade anybody," but they're like rleh. They're all, like, got their energy tentacles in, in everyone all the time if they're not savvy to that. Yeah. And they can also be energy vampires, which we talked about on another episode that we did with you earlier last year.

Um, and so I highly encourage you guys to go back and check that one out because that was awesome. Um, but the, the, the other thing that happens is that, you know, people can invade your, your space on purpose too, right? They can purposely try and mess with you. And so I have, uh, an example of that. I was doing a Reiki attunement class, and, uh, we went out after the class.

Everybody went out and, and we had, m- uh, well, I think it was midway through, we went for lunch, right? When people had not brought their food, so we went out and got lunch. And the kids at the next table over were what I refer to affectionately as craft kids, meaning they watched the movie The Craft and thought it was cool, and now they're trying to be those kids, right?

And they, they could feel that my students' energies were really open and raw, and they were messing with them. And I was like Oh, hell no. So I slapped psychic helmets on them, and they all were just like... You could tell that they suddenly were like, "I can't see anything. What the hell's going on? What happened?

What happened?" When it's like, you know, one of your elders has schooled you, that's what happened. Now, I set it to dissolve when they hit the door on their way out because I wasn't there to be their parent forever, but I was gonna stop them from doing the thing that was damaging to the people I was with.

I was protecting my students. And you think they were doing it on purpose? They absolutely were doing it on purpose. Absolutely. And when we got out to the parking lot, they were still out there waiting for us to come out because they felt the helmets dissolve when they hit the door. And they were like, "Oh, we'll get back at them now."

And so I'm... I set up a nice little self-fulfilling prophecy for them, which is the most elegant piece of magic I've ever done in my life. It was, I set up a shield that said anything you send out with the intent to mess with somebody else hits the shield, and the shield absorbs all the energy from that spell, and it fuels the shield.

Anything you send out with positive intent goes through the shield and is very successful. That's, that's cool. Right? Yeah. I might use- Elegant. I might use that- Karmically neutral ... totally. Karmically neutral. Sometimes the worst I've ever done is the mirror, the mirror, like- You know, right back at you. Um, and that, that's a little more aggressive though.

Well, it was designed for kids, right? It's like, "I'm just gonna correct your behavior. I am your elder, and I'm gonna correct your behavior in a way that doesn't hurt you or anyone else," right? And, and when you've learned the lesson and you stop sending out negative crap, the shield will fall of its own accord, and you will be deemed mature enough to deal with, you know, to choose whatever you wanna do from there forward, right?

It was an, an appropriate solution. But this is the shit that can happen to you if you fuck with the wrong people, right? If I had not been me, I could have set it up so that it sucked their energy out of them every time they did something with negative intent. That would've been karmically neutral too for me.

It's like, "Oh, you're sending out negative intent? Here, you have negative re- repercussion." That would not have impacted me karmically at all. Yeah, I could have had it bounce back at them. I could have had a- any number of things. I could have completely shut them off from their ability to do any psychic abilities at all, but I didn't.

But some people would have, and that is the problem with messing with people you do not know, because shit can go sideways for you. And I always want to encourage, like, younger people. I think younger people are getting more and more psychic as, you know, every generation's born a little more psychic than the one before.

That's what I think. And there are a lot of, um, you know, the TikTok psychics who haven't... You know, they, they have a lot of maybe natural ability, or they've had one or two experiences that are really cool and sort of set themselves up as experts. You know, like experts who... Or they try to run classes, or they try to, you know, do readings.

I've seen a lot of people try to do readings, and the problem with that is that people come to psychics because, to healers in general, because they're really in trouble, and they bring real shit. They bring the real stuff. They bring the real... You have to be prepared to deal with people's pain, their trauma.

You know, like what, what if somebody's suicidal? What if somebody's depressed or in, in the serious grips of something rough? The... And you're not equipped to deal with that. You... So I've seen a lot of people get damaged from putting their, their faith in people that just don't have sort of the trauma informed.

You know? They're, they're not Ready. It's not just a party game. It's, it's... And I, I also like wanna a- appreciate those people, appreciate their skill, the, the young people, their skill and their desire to wanna be a healer, but we have to be grounded in, in reality, you know? So I started working as a psychic when I was 19, and I quickly learned that I didn't have enough training that way, so I went back to, I went back to school, went back to therapy school, you know, so I could deal with the real stuff, the real problems that people were bringing me.

Well, and, and not only do they bring like emotional problems, but they can often bring energetic issues. I mean, I've gone to do a, an energy scan on somebody and been completely swarmed by a legion of demons. I've had that happen. Now, it's only happened once in like 3,500 times I've done this, but I've had it happen.

And once is enough, right? And the fact that, that it happened to be at a time that I could maintain and, and hold myself solid and be able to fight these things off was fortuitous, but that would not necessarily be the case for everybody. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've run into entities and demons and whatever.

Oh my God, yeah. It's just part of my daily, like taking stuff off people or having to deal with stuff. And I, like, I learned sort of old school back in the '90s when I was doing house clearings, and I had no idea what I was doing. No... And there was nobody doing it back then. There were no TV shows about it or books about it.

Somebody was like, "I think I've got something creepy in my house. Will you come look at it?" And you know, I made every, I made every mistake. I went alone. Oh, yeah. I had no idea what I was doing. Yes, you went to the location- You know ... to begin with, because I- I went to the location ... to begin with. Like, I just was like, oh, you know.

And so I learned the hard way how to do it. But I think a, a lot of these things come from people watching TV, you know, p- like paranormal, paranormal TV shows, and they're like, "I'm gonna try that." And don't really believe 100% in it. It's like, cool, it's fine, it's Halloween, let's go to the abandoned mental hospital, right?

Let's bring the Ouija board to the abandoned mental ho- let's smoke a ton of weed and bring the Ouija board- Oh my God ... to the abandoned mental hospital on Halloween. Oh my God. Ah, I just wanna scream. I know. It's just like, yeah, you people And like, if you do that, please don't do that ... take the effort. But if you do that, do not call me and Kelle.

Don't call, don't call us to help you out after or something. Like, but, you know, but I have done, like, a ton of, of... And that, and, and to me, I, I think that's sort of like not really believing in sharks, but it's kinda fun, so you're just gonna chum the water and jump in to see whether sharks are real or not.

Oh my God, that's such a good metaphor. Oh my God, sharks are real. You know? That is such a great metaphor. It's so true. Oh my God. If you can't see them under the surface, they might not be real, you know? Right. Well, just throw some chum in there and jump in. Right. Yeah. Let- let's see what happens And, and so much of the paranormal stuff that you see on TV is sort of the spiritual equivalent of doing that.

And s- and but that's what we know, that's what we see, so we try that. And, you know, there's so, there's been so many unfortunate consequences to- Poor unfortunate souls. Mm-hmm. Yeah It's like- Having a moment ... no. Yeah. Um, it's sad. Yeah. Well, and you know, uh, when you're doing this work, you run into some bizarre stuff.

I mean, I once ran into somebody who had a curse on their family line that went back hundreds of years, and it was active on their family line now. And the reason it was still active is because the shaman who cast it in the first place went insane, and he went insane, cast this curse, and then proceeded to haunt the family.

And when I went back and looked at the cause, the guy who he cursed initially did not even do the thing that he had told him that he was cursing him for. He didn't even do it. The shaman was insane, and he was imagining things, and then he haunted the family for hundreds of years. And now I'm sitting there face-to-face with an insane shaman ghost.

How the hell do you fix that, right? I'm, I'm sitting there going, "This guy has hundreds of years of experience on me. I'm a badass, but I don't wanna go up against this guy," right? And I, I looked at him and I was like, "Okay, I need a creative solution." And so I thought outside of the box on that one, and I called out to the gods of karma because this guy had been fucking with this family for generations over something they didn't do.

And I called the gods of karma, and I said, "Could you take care of this one?" And they went, "Oh, we've got it." And off he went, and that was the end of that. I didn't have to deal with it. But that's, you know, that's a creative solution, right? I was like... You know, 'cause if I had been younger and more in my, you know, youth of, "I'm a badass and I'm gonna kick ass and take names," which I was 20 years ago, I probably would've gone up against this guy and gotten really hurt.

I... Totally. And I was, I was sort of a badass when I was younger, but mostly I just think I was naive, you know? I, I was just kinda... I was just more like, "It's all love and light," you know? It was more like that. There's no evil. Yeah. You know? Like, so I think we can put black magic practitioners in the bad psychic category.

Bad psychic, bad black magic practitioners. And I'm just shocked, continually shocked, even though I shouldn't be shocked anymore, about how common black magic is. How common. How... I, I never... When I was just starting out, you know, back, way back in the day, I mean, it was probably like 25 years ago, I saw my first curse.

Some lady came into my office for a Reiki session. She's like, "I think I'm cursed." I'm like, "Curses aren't real. You're totally not And then I looked at her and I was like, "Oh, shit." "She's totally cursed." Right. And, you know, and I had to figure it out. And, um, I lived in a, I lived in a community that had a lot of, um, immigrants from South America And I'm, I'm just gonna say don't, don't piss off a Brazilian.

Wow. Mm-hmm. And they... There was this old lady in town, and she, for $500 she'd put a curse on you, and then for $500 she'd take it off. So she got it, she had it coming and going, you know? And, and then I started, like, taking cur- her curses off other people, and she got so mad at me because she wanted her $500.

And she... Then she cursed me, and I had... It was a whole thing, and I had to deal with... You know. So, and, and just really ever since then, I got a, I got a quick education in curse removal, um, which I still do on a fairly regular basis. But I'm... But that's sort of garden variety black magic. But the really dark black magic, I'm just so surprised by how often I encounter.

It's just shocking to me still how regularly I see it. There's some angry people out there, and they use their anger to fuel their cursing. But you know, it's, it's some bad stuff. And, but, but this is the other piece too that the con artists take advantage of, right? Is that they'll look at you and say, "Oh, you're cursed."

And then they convince you that you're cursed, and then they charge you, like, 2,500 bucks to take the curse off that probably didn't exist in the first place, right? Or all the stupid crazy thing- things, mistakes you've made on your own, in your own life. Like, sometimes the curse is, like, you just make the wrong

You just, you're not making the best decisions. Let's put it that way. And then somebody will say, "Oh, well, you're cursed." So this, one of my clients came to me and she's like, "I'm in big trouble." She's like, "Lisa, I cheated on you and went to another psychic." And I was like... I was like, "What happened?" And, and she went somewhere to some, like, resort town, right?

And there, there was a psychic there that said she was cursed, and it was $10,000 to take the curse off. But it had to be cash, and she couldn't tell her husband or it wasn't gonna work.

There's a con artist for you. And she's like, "Do you think that's legit?" And I'm like, "Oh- No ... no." No. And you know, no. And probably your problems are just garden variety problems that we all have, you know? Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. But this, this is, this is the stuff. And this is where we get bad names, right? We get bad names from people who violate other people's boundaries, who make shit up, who actually do curses, who actually do black magic and do damage, right?

You know, anything else you can think of? Yeah. Part of it is, like, the, like, we, we have to be so careful 'cause people put so much power into what we say, you know? And, and because I'm combining energy work in my sessions, people are in a very hypnotic, hy- you know, like, suggestible state. So I feel like we have to be so careful about what we say when we're working on people.

And, and I've had... And that we're not looking through the lens of our own trauma So I, I have, uh, I heard about sort of a local psychic around who a- was always telling people they had been sexually abused as children. Like, everyone, and even if they didn't have any memory of it, you know? And whatever problem they had, she's like, "Whatever you...

Yeah, you've been, you just, you were sexually abused as a child, and you don't remember," which is a totally unethical thing to say to somebody, and it wasn't true. She was the one that had the issues that she was not fully looking at, and so she was projecting her own stuff all over her clients. And that, that's not a, that's a real mind screw to tell somebody, you know...

First of all, if it was true, it would be a mind screw, but it's even more of a mind screw if it's not true. And, you know, the other one that I heard that I'll never forget is, this was a great one. You ready for this one? "You have cancer, but the doctors will never find it." Oh my God. Who the hell says that?

This stuff, man So the, so the doctors were like, "You don't have cancer," and the lady was like, "Yes, I do. Yes, I do." You know? And then, you know, do, do you wonder if, like, eventually she got cancer? Because if you think you have cancer hard enough, do you get cancer? Your body's like, "Oh, okay, I guess we have cancer now," you know?

You know. And, and I was like, wow, what a horrible thing to say to somebody. And- That, that is a real curse. That is a real curse. That is a hoodoo curse right there. That is a hoodoo curse because hoodoo i- it requires you to buy into the belief, right? That's a hoodoo curse right there. That's a classic example of a hoodoo curse.

Yeah. I had to really undo that one, like, you know. And I, I think sh- you know, I wonder if she's still in the back of her mind like, eek, you know. Wow, that was a, that was a, that was a mind screw too. And, you know, so we have to be so careful we're not projecting, that we're not ... I don't know what, what would possess somebody to say something like that.

That we're, we're really thinking about the, you know, the fact that on- like, the best psychic is only ever 80% accurate, you know? So wh- what do you do when you're wrong? Or what do you do when you say something but the ... and it's true for five minutes, but then the circumstances change, and it's now we're onto something else, you know?

So we have to be so careful about the seeds that we plant in, in pe- in people. And you have to know who you are, right? So, like, I carry the energy of change. I literally cannot predict the future for people because the moment I open my mouth, I change the future because I carry the energy of change. And so I can read the probability lines, and the moment I say something to them, the probability lines shift because I've said

Right? And so it's, it's, it's, you know, other people can say things and not have the lines shift because they don't carry the energy of change. I carry the energy of change. I can't do it. So I just stopped doing future reads for that reason, you know. I can see it, but I don't talk about it because- I'm, like, real upfront about the probability, so I al- almost always say, like, you know, "80% probability, 60% probability," unless you go out...

unless you leave the reading and you go into a parking lot and you make a d- another decision, and then, you know, um, and then everything's shifting, too. So, like, my, my thing is, like, well, I thi- you know, it looks like if you go this way, it might be like this. If you go this way, it might be like that. But you have to decide, you know?

And let... and not make decisions for people. Well, and some people will come in and try and have you run their lives. I stopped doing psychic readings for a living because I had a retail store. I had a new age store, and I had the same people come back every single week, and they asked the same questions every single week.

And I, I, I was like, basically, they were asking me to run their life for them. And I was like, "I don't wanna run your life for you. It's your job to run your life." But some people will happily take on that mantle and take your money every single week forever. I didn't wanna do it. I wasn't gonna do it. I refused to do it.

Why I stopped selling readings. I think it's, like, a hard thing for people when they kind of enter into the free will zone, you know, and we go, we go into that stage of our spiritual development where, where our karmas are sort of cleared out, our fate's sort of cleared out, and we have a lot of free will You know, what do we, what do we do with that free will?

Um, and w- it mea- it means we have to take responsibility for our lives and the choices that we make, and it's hard to do that. Well, I think we've really run the gamut on this one, right? It is just we've, we've been all over and back again, and so if you're recognizing yourself in any of this stuff, then that would be the time to really take a look at your ethics and, and see what you're doing, um, and whether or not you might wanna make some different choices.

If you're not clear on the difference between white and black magic, there is an episode from the first year, I think it's, like, episode 11 or 12, where we talk about the difference between white and black magic, and you can take a look at that and, and listen to that, and that'll teach you more about that as we go.

And Lisa has an amazing, uh, thing that you can get for free on her website. Tell me again what it's called. It's called Energy Management for Sensitives, and it's a four-hour video class that, you know, just gives the basics on how to ground, clear and protect ourselves, how to manage our emotional states, how to deal with energy vampires, how to strengthen our boundaries so that we're better boundaried for people that are, are emerging psychics or empaths.

Fantastic. So you guys should all go to lisacampion.com and download that class 'cause f- that's four hours for free, guys. You totally ... You can't beat that with a stick. And Lisa's amazing as a teacher. I know many people who've been through her programs and speak very highly of her. And I know how they are in the world, and based on who they are and what they do, I know she's a good teacher.

So you should definitely go check her out and, uh, and download that. So, um, any last thoughts on this before we wrap up, Lisa? M- one more appalling story to share with you. I'll make it quick. So I had a, a client who came to me, um, ta- telling me that she had taken a class in soul, in s- twin flames, and that the person that was running the class had taught her a spell to bind the soul of her twin flame to her even though he was married to somebody else.

And she, her life was just in this free fall. She was being haunted. It was... Her life had just totally, totally imploded, and I, I couldn't... I- it was hard to help her see that that was a totally, totally, totally, totally ba- unethical thing to do. And I was like, "Who is this person that's, you know, teaching these classes and training people how to do that?

Wow." The, the karma on that is so awful. That is classic black magic right there. Yeah. That is, that is definition- I know. I told her, I had to tell her, I had to break her, I had to break it to her. I'm like, "That is, like, a massive piece of black-" "But I, but this lady, everybody goes to her, and she's, like, super popular on the internet."

And I'm like, "Uh-" That doesn't mean she knows what the hell she's doing or that she cares. I mean, she may not care, you know? I mean, that's really... Or she doesn't care if somebody else pays the price for it, right? You know? I mean, will it work? Yeah. The, that'll work in a way that you might not really want.

Sort of like the wishing on the monkey's paw, right? It's the same idea, is like, well, yeah, it'll give you what you wish for, but there will be consequences, and that's probably really not your best call. Oh, my God. Okay, so yeah. Lots of things to not do, right? All right. Well, that's all we have for this week.

Uh, please, th- thank you for being here, Lisa. I'm so glad you've, you've come. It's been fantastic, and I'm sure we will have you back again just because, you know, I love you. And so that's all we have for this week. Please tune in next time when I will add another episode into your guide to energy, magic, and the spirit world.

I'm Kelle Sparta here with Lisa Campion, and you have been listening to Spirit Sherpa. So long, everyone. Bye.