Reaching goals only lasts for a few moments, but the journey we take toward the goal is what makes up our day-to-day lives. So how do we learn to appreciate the journey--to build a life for ourselves that we love--while chasing our dreams?

Hi, this is Matt Stagliano and thanks for being

part of the artists Forge. We're a community of creatives who

help each other think like an artist. By discussing creativity

as a process instead of a skill or a talent. We believe everyone

has what it takes to create something amazing. We just need

some encouragement and inspiration along the way. What

you're about to hear is a live recording of one of our daily

discussions on the clubhouse app. If you like what you hear,

I encourage you to join our private Facebook group, or visit

us on the web at the artist forge COMM Now on to the show.

Alright, welcome, everybody to morning walk and

photo talk. I see so many of our friends here this morning. So

glad to have you guys getting back together after our weekend

heading towards the holidays. And Monday, of course, is our

day for casual conversations. But I do actually kind of have

something I want to talk about a little bit today. So just as

like a general framework, but if you're interested in coming and

hanging out with everybody this morning and chatting, just go

ahead and raise your hands will snatch up. But what I kind of

want to talk about today is my my brother, who is really

similar to me, in that he also is a multidisciplinary artist.

He's a musician and an artist and he has been working

construction, she really enjoys the job. But of course, it's a

lot of work. And so it's pulled him away from some of his other

artistic pursuits. And now that he's got a little more time in

the wintertime with construction slowing down, he's able to pick

up some of those things again, and he was telling me to him

this morning, he said, You know, it's taking them a long time to

get back to the skill that he had before. And he's like, I

don't feel special anymore. You know, and it's it's tempting to

just leave everything and keep my head down and just go be a

worker bee. And it was really interesting to me that in those

situations, we're kind of looking at the outcome of what

we've made, as the important thing, you know, like that

outcome is the goal. And, of course it is in a big way. But

we forget the fact that the outcome is only a result of the

journey. And we've talked about before the fact that the goal is

going to last us a few seconds before we're back on the road,

right? It's kind of like a pit stop. And so I told him that,

well, first I told him to shut up his damn head. And don't say

things like, but I'm also to remember that the journey is the

important part. And he's working with clay specifically and

modeling the human face. And as, as you're if anybody's ever

worked with clay before, you'll know that there's just pleasure

in the working of it right in the feel of it in your hands and

the way that it moves, and the way that you interact with the

media itself. So it just got me thinking about the fact that the

goal is not the result, even though it is the goal is the

experience and the doing of the thing, and that we have to

remind ourselves over and over again, that it's the journey,

right? It's the steps that we take every day, it's being here

in the morning, even though the outcome is I feel better when

I'm with you guys, and more adjusted. And I feel I'm

learning stuff from you all the time. It's the journey, and the

steps that I take every morning with you guys that I'm really

participating in, not necessarily the goal. That's

just a cool thing that I get every now and then. So I wanted

to hear what you guys think about. I mean, obviously, from

his perspective, this is him building backup, a skill set

that he's lost. I'm sure we all know what that's like, I'm

trying to climb more often. And I got a really good lesson

yesterday, and how much strength and endurance I've lost. And

it's frustrating. But, but I love to climb so much. I'm

willing to go through that frustration. So I'm really

curious how you guys feel about this entire process, what it's

like, not only to build yourself up into things, but the process

itself, you know, and the fact that that's where we live. So if

that can be maybe a guiding motivator to ease us in the

conversation. That would be super cool. And if anybody's

here today, who wants to chat, come up and hang out up here in

the in the Speaker's forum, raise your hand and we'll pull

you up. And if my treadmill gets really loud, let me know because

this is my first experiment with it in the mornings here. And

I'll meet myself more often if it's bad, but

I feel like I constantly live in that space.

Like, no matter what my goal is, right? Let's say it's

photography, or fitness or videography, or business, or

whatever it is, I feel like I'm always in that space where I'm

constantly starting, I'm constantly learning, there's

always more, it's the very much the student mindset, right? And

I never feel like I get to the point where I'm like, Okay, no,

I'm good here. So when I lapse, like, if I don't go to the gym

for a long time, and I start over, it's kind of what I'm used

to, I feel, I feel like I never get to the point where I'm

uncomfortable and that I've made it net. Oh, this is about as far

as I have to go. I feel like I'm constantly going through that,

whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know. But I

think there's so many variables mixed into it. For my personal

case, I just, I've never gotten to the point where I feel like I

have to build back because I'm just constantly building.

That's a really interesting point. And I think,

I'm guessing that a lot of us can identify, it's that feeling

of being a Constant Learner, right. And it doesn't

necessarily have to be the building back, I think that we

focus on, it definitely can be the recognition, and how we

actually live in that space, like recognizing that the goal

is just a passing thing. And that really, that every day,

that each individual step forward, that's really, I mean,

that's the goal. If anybody's, if anybody's ever read the Way

of Kings, there's a thing that gets repeated, which is journey

before destination. And that's kind of the way that I'm

starting to come to think of it because once you get there, it's

done. It's the getting there. That's the the main part of it,

you know, I want my I want my everyday life and my process, to

feel like something I want to be doing, you know, and to focus on

that part of it. And not necessarily was the end result,

everything that I hoped but was every day, a day that I was

happy to live and an experience I was happy to have and what I

have it like what I continue to work with the clay or what I

continue to climb or take photos or whatever. Despite the fact

that maybe the results take are a little harder to get.

Yeah, and I think they're in lies some of it

right. This is a very results driven society that we're in,

right, where we don't get the chance to do outside pressure,

we don't get the chance to relax and enjoy the journey. Right.

And the people that I find that do enjoy that journey, and have

made peace with it and think that that is the goal, right?

It's very noble, I think those are the people that seem

happiest and are often and this is the kicker disconnected the

most from the digital world. Right? And are truly pursuing

their art, I feel like this constant need to put out work or

produce or say, Hey, here's what I do over and over and over, you

know, nullifies some of the the satisfaction that you get from

that journey. Oh, just my observation, but you guys know

how I feel about this stuff.

I think it's, it's an important topic, because

as an artist, right, like it is the journey, it is about your

development and your expression and your ability to, to create.

But once you turn that into a business, the fight then becomes

because you're paid on the outcome. So in a results driven

world, right, it is also about the destination and your ability

to execute. So learning to balance those two components is

sort of like the sequel. And Nicole, you're gonna love this

is the artist Forge, like being able to balance your need for

your own development of of skill and expression, and also develop

your ability to deliver. They are tangible, in both respects.

So it's about understanding how to find center in that.

Ooh, that's a really, really good observation,

Kat, and I agree. I was just thinking, as you were saying

that how without those little, those little wins, right in

those little goalposts, those little results that we get it of

course, it's going to be really hard to keep moving forward,

right. And then and I mean, I think that's with anything if

you if you fight, and you never see any progress, and of course

there's always going to be some kind of frustration inherent in

that, but then that's compounded by the fact that if we're

business people, we need to deliver results. And of course,

like you said, Matt, you know, we're kind of inundated by

everybody else's successes all the time. Because often, we only

really want to post when we're killing it. And so we're getting

just everybody else's wins. And we're sitting there looking at

our stuff and being like, why am I not doing the thing? So I can

definitely see how that is an important thing to balance. And

I have kind of an interesting example of that, just from my

perspective. So I know I mentioned how in October, I was

really focusing on illustration, I'm doing that again in

December, I need to start building up the funds I need to

produce and market the book that I've written. So I'll be doing

Christmas illustrations for folks. And yesterday I was

working on, you know, what can I What can I make, maybe just a

few things that people will be able to look at and pick from

that I can move from image to image, so they're easy. And I

thought, a Nightmare Before Christmas type Christmas theme

would be really cool. So I started designing that. And I

was thinking about how, in the grand scheme of things, I'm not

really that great of an illustrator, I'm a, I'm a

newbie, when you look at, you know, the people who could you

could potentially hire. But last month, I had, I don't even know

how many people 20 some odd people pay me to illustrate

portraits for them. Because from their perspective, what they saw

in my work was good enough to warrant getting paid. And I'm

sure 10 years from now, I look back at that and go, I can't

believe anybody paid me for that. But I learned so much in

that process from drawing every single day straight through for

a month, I learned so much. And even though I wasn't necessarily

the best at it, and there were kind of a lot of things I had to

take away from that experience. Man, there's so much there, I

really enjoyed the process, I was able to like, really sink

into the different techniques and things that I can use. And

so a lot came out of that, even though it's not like I don't

like the images when I look at them. But I am at a place with

illustration where my tastes still outstrips my ability to

execute, and my technical skills. And so I definitely was

living there last month. And it was hard for me to recognize,

initially, what was really happening was I was getting paid

to learn, which is really cool. And certainly, if somebody else,

like I know, we've all experienced this at the

beginning of our careers, when we first started our businesses,

and we look back now at our photography, and we're like,

Man, I believe that somebody paid me to do that. But they

did, and they still loved what they got, even though we were in

process. So I wonder if there's a way to fold to fold that

balance of results. And hitting those goals and seeing yourself

succeed, to fold that into the process so that it doesn't

necessarily feel like the end of the journey. But just kind of

like a pit stop.

I love that idea. Being able to sort of

measure the results in a way that is also effective for for

your heart space

in that.

Yeah, whoo. I like the way you said that. That

resonates with me a lot. Anybody else have any thoughts this

morning on the whole, looking at our journey as artists as the

goal, and not necessarily the end results that we give to

folks, or that we reach? If you're in the audience today,

please don't be afraid to raise your hand guys. It's Monday. We

want to chat with you. I know some people are at work. But if

you're in a space where you can chat, please raise your hand

come up and hang out. So What are y'all thinking about this

whole question? Do you think there is a way that we can fold

those results in the goals that we have for ourselves kind of

into the journey a little bit more so that like had said it

does feel good in your heart like it doesn't feel like a

constant a constant pick up and go and then burn it all down? I

mean, we can't it's really hard to Phoenix if we don't look at

the goal as the end state right? Like that's really

that's where those measurable points kind of

come into. Like, maybe you have you know, like, say it's a

creative piece right and you're working on a new light set. but

you really want to bring something together that's, you

know, above level of your standard work. But you know, the

intended outcome sorry, there's a squirrel that just leaped from

one tree to the next. Hashtag Nicole moment. The end goal of

that, obviously, is to book that more of those types of sessions,

right? Well, nine times out of 10. But there are little wins

along the way. Like, how excited you get when you know, you

nailed the shot in camera, and you celebrate that that's no

different than nailing like, the full edit on a set. Right? And

then maybe you got a consultation from something you

shared from behind the scenes reels. And okay, I got I got a

consultation for this. That's awesome. That's so exciting. And

then you move into, you know, just a little wind chunk it

down. The little wins of that are just as valued. Like I just

shared on Instagram. I opened up my reels just to kind of see how

things are going. And I got an angel number on the creative

reel I posted yesterday. And so I shared it, I was like I love

seeing Angel numbers, especially on my favorite work. You know,

it's those kinds of celebrations that sort of keep that momentum.

I'm going to ask, what's an angel number?

Like 777 1111 Gotcha, that manifestation

numbers, I guess. Gotcha. Thanks.

Okay, I noticed you unmuted earlier.

Maybe it may just be sleepy delirium. All right, I

feel like I'm always kind of in that always growing state, and

I'm working with my, my small bite size goals. So I'm

constantly hitting that feeling of success, instead of focusing

on the greater long term goal, because I don't know where I'm

gonna be in 1020 years, I've got no idea, like, too many too many

variables to set something really big, and, you know,

specific. So like, when I'm working, like, I feel like I

always try to do something new on everything that I'm working

on. So whether that's just like, you know, learning some new

software thing, or, you know, approaching a subject that I

haven't really worked, you know, or approach before, with, with

painting, specifically, like working with different materials

and things like that, and even photo manipulation, same idea,

like how to get materials to look most realistic, and like

every artwork, whether it's personal, or for a client, it's

always gonna be different, right? So there's always going

to be this opportunity for me to try something new, and learn

something new and grow a little bit more. So I feel like I'm

constantly constantly in that state. But I definitely relate

to your brother, feeling like, Oh, I'm not special anymore. And

I'm out of practice. about other things like writing

specifically, I there was a long, long time where I wanted

to be a writer of some sort. And I ran a blog, a pretty

successful blog for a long time I wrote everyday in a journal

since I was a little kid. And then when I was like, 22 years

old, I just stopped. And I just keep telling myself, I'll get

back to it, I'll get back to it'll get back to it. There's

this huge part of my identity that made me feel so special,

that just faded away into the mist. And I know I could get

back there if I really wanted to, but it's motivating myself

to get back to it. That is just the tricky part.

For sure, especially when you have to kind

of fold that in amongst everything else that you're

doing, it starts to feel like an impossible process. And I think

that's where my, my deep, deep jealousy for all the people who

seem to have their single thing that they just they know, it's

theirs, like they were put on this earth to do that thing.

And, and that's what they focus on. I have deep, deep jealousy

for those people. Because it seems like and of course, this

is just from an outside perspective. But it seems like

man, your sense of identity with that must run so deep, right?

Like that. That's to feel like that is the thing. And I know

that I'm romanticizing it in my head, but that's always how it

seemed to me, instead of what I'm doing, which is constantly

running back and forth between five different things. And to

just seems like that, that must be it seems like it must be

wonderful. Even though I have no idea. I'm making shit up and

like it might be really horrible. I have no idea. But I

definitely have jealousy for those people.

Do you think it's the element of time? In

what way? It meaning like, we always feel like there's a time

limit on we have to reach this by this certain time. or else

we're not good, or else we're wasting time or else we're not

going to get there. Whereas people that tend to fold it in,

don't have the restraint of time. They're just in the

moment, you know, it's like being present, right? It's, is

it something like that? That is the differentiator between

people that do it intuitively and people that feel like they

have to try to do it. Am I making sense with that? It seems

to be like time is the thing that is the differentiator here

for me in this conversation.

I think you hit a big nail on the head where I'm

concerned, because that is actually one of my greatest

causes for existential dread is knowing that I will never have

enough time to paint or draw or photograph or write everything

that is in my head and knowing that some of those ideas will,

will never be seen. Not that nobody will ever do them,

because probably some other person will do them. But that

nobody will ever see the the way that I did them. That part of me

will never be out into the world, the way that I would have

said it or painted or photographed or whatever. Yep,

that is actually legitimately, like, gut wrenchingly scary for

me. And it's, it's a weird thing that I feel like I constantly

have to manage, being able to let things go. And know that

know that I'm picking and choosing which children to give

birth to is what it feels like, it is kind of terrible. So Oh,

for me, I think you me, I think that's 100%, right? Does anybody

else feel that pressure of time?

I'm thinking of time in a bit of a different, a

different aspect of time. Where early on in our in when we

discover something new, I'm going to refer to myself, you

know, discovering photography very, relatively late in my in

my life, it seems that by default, it's all about the

journey, because you don't know what you don't know. So it's

hard to set goals, right, your goals or whatever, minimalis

stupidest thing you can think of that you just found out today.

Right? And, oh, that's my goal. That's what I want to do. And

yes, you fantasize about, you know, I want to be the best

photographer in the world. But you, you really don't know what

you don't know. So by default, you enjoy the journey of

learning, you get to a point where you start learning about

the craft, you get to know more you get into the nuances, and

then that's when goals take over. And then as time goes on,

goals become we kind of default to goals becoming bigger than

the journey itself, because now we understand now we know, oh,

that's what I'd like to do. And you get consumed by that goal.

And you forget about that journey of learning. I'm just

describing a scenario because obviously, everybody you know,

whatever you guys said about those that take the time and

focus on the journey are the ones that seem to be like that

we envy that we want to be like, but I think there's a natural

tendency as you get to know more. You. You let goals take

over the journey. making any sense? Don't all speak at the

same time.

Sorry, I'm trying to do better at leaving open

space for other people to speak. So I'm not the first one. So

what do you guys think about what Assam had to say?

I think I'll go back to British Columbia.

Stick around, please. Yeah, I think there's

there's a lot I'm just kind of sitting here in digesting it

right. And then the thought that the image that keeps popping

into my head is this straight line trip across the country

from Washington, DC to California. And that's the

journey and you're focused on it. You're going like, Yeah, I'm

going to make it to California one day, and I'm getting there.

And then all of the in between stops, the truck stops where you

meet the interesting people, the little side adventures. Those

are actually the goals that you inadvertently come across. But

you still have that long journey to go. And I think if you only

focus on what's at that next truckstop you'll never get to

California. This is probably the worst analogy I've ever used.

But it's the No I said I have going in my head. Do you know

what I mean? It's like we we forget about the fact that we're

going all the way across this country and what a monumental

thing that will be when we finish. And we're only focused

on man if I could just get some ding dongs at the next ta that'd

be fantastic. And it's just it's not the same thing. Write?

Well, in a way, what I was saying it's as if

when you start something and you don't know much, it's likely you

don't even know California exists, you're just set out. And

the next thing you discover is your goal, because you don't

even know what where, where you're gonna end up. That's

really what I was trying to say. But as you learn more, and

realize California is out there, now it becomes all about

California, and you forget about the little steps to get there.

You just want to get to California. That's really what I

meant. I don't know if it makes sense. But that's,

you know, I did? I did. No, it does. A while

back, I did. I took a little psychedelic trip with some fun

guys of mine. And we contemplated the the notion of

true north, what is your spiritual, true north, what is

your artistic true north, and it kind of folds into this

discussion, because what I came out of that trip with was

understanding that it is more about the journey, that it's

less about the goals, that it's more about internal

satisfaction, and just trying to find those frequencies that make

you feel really good producing whatever it is that you produce,

whether that's a cocktail, as a bartender or a piece of art.

Everything is about what speaks to you in that moment. And I

think, oftentimes, we lock ourselves into some preconceived

notion of what we're supposed to be doing, or what the goal is

supposed to be based on our previous experiences, rather

than giving ourselves up to that true north to that, you know,

direction towards California, or whatever, you know, analogy you

want to use. But I find that we've kind of lost that artistic

compass, sometimes in lieu of becoming business owners, or

trying to reach some sort of, you know, temporary goal.

You know, what you just said, I'm going to steal

your analogy but, and expand upon like, what it's making me

think of as you guys are describing this journey that

we're on. So, imagine that you, you first learn how to drive,

and you're like, Oh, my God, driving is the best thing ever.

And I don't really know where I'm going, I just know, I have

to get out of here. And I'm going to drive, right, like, so

you just go. And you're doing all the things that Matt said,

You're stopping when you find a meadow on the side of the road

that you want to walk into, or stopping at a local diner and

chatting up the, you know, the waitress, or whatever it is

you're, you're really experiencing these things. And

then like the Somme said, all of a sudden, you're getting to be a

pretty good driver at this point. You never crash, you

never have any accidents, you always fill up when you should

you do your repairs when they need to be done. And you realize

that California is out there, and you're like, Oh, my God,

that's where I want to go. And all of a sudden, the truck stops

in the meadows. And all of those things become less interesting.

And pretty soon you're driving through the night, and you're

only stopping to go to the bathroom when nobody else is

around. Because you're heading so hard for California, that you

completely missed the rest of the country. And all of a sudden

you get there, and you're standing in California, and

you've run your car into the ground, and you've ignored half

of the trip. And you're looking and you're like this is

beautiful. This is amazing. Now what now what now where do I go.

And from there on. I mean, I think you have a decision to

make, right? You either find some other place to go when you

get on the road, and you blast toward that place and you start

looking for the location to replace the feeling you had when

you first started driving, like, you got to the location and you

went, oh my god, this is amazing. Just like you got in

the car and went, oh my god, this is amazing. But instead of

getting that feeling just from driving, and seeing and getting

out and experiencing the world, now you can only get it when you

hit that new location. And it takes a long time. You're in the

car for a long time between California and Washington state,

or British Columbia or wherever it is that you decide to head.

And those feelings come farther and farther in between. As

opposed to when you were just experiencing the joy of driving

and stopping at those places. You could have that feeling

almost any time you looked at your car windows, because you

just loved what you were doing so much. And that that idea has

just like as I was listening to you guys talk so most it's like

it flew and out of the window and whacked me in the chest and

I got all absorbed in it.

Matt, do you want to say something or is this

one of your mute moments?

Nope, nope. I'm just unmute from the board, not

from my phone.

Gotcha. Um, you know, for bosoms example and

process there, instead of considering it like California,

right. One of one of the things, Sue says, when she teaches is,

you know, as you as you grow in your business and in your art,

you know, it's, you're growing up, not over. And she makes the

this reference, like, it's the same view, it's just a different

altitude. And the, the reasoning behind that is, you get more

clarity about what's available to you, the higher you get on

the proverbial mountain, so as you grow, and you reach new

levels that you've set for yourself, and you stop and take

stock of the view that's available to you, that gives you

more information about what is available to you. So when you're

starting, it's, you know, you're starting up the mountain, and

you're like, I've got to get posing down my light, okay, I've

got to do that and understand like how my camera works, and

all the things, and that's what's available to you at the

ground space. And then as you grow, you're like, oh, I can

make a business out of this. Okay, and you have like, visuals

of people that are trying to give you money because they

desire what it is that you have to offer. And then as you know,

your business grows, and you have more opportunity to develop

your skills and becomes more sustainable. And then you get a

little higher up the mountain. And then you look out and you're

like, oh, man, I could go to California, right? Like, look at

that it exists. And then what's available in California or New

York or, you know, insert place here, because now it's on your

radar, you can see it. And that gives you the ability to make

informed decisions about what you want your path to look like.

Does that mean that it's a straight shot from there to

California? Of course not. But it means that now all of a

sudden, it's on your radar, and you have the capability to

visualize what that could look like for yourself.

I love that. Oh, go ahead.

No, no, I was gonna say the same thing. I

think your analogy, Nicole, and then cuts explanation, just

like, really? Clarify what? You know, what I was trying to say

but but also what? What to realize as you go along and not,

you know, and not be consumed that often by that ultimate

goal, that you have options, that you have different ways of

getting there, that you have different routes to get there,

that you can do it in different vehicles and different types of

transportation, and so on and so forth. Right?

For sure. And I think that's why I'm just now

thinking back on a conversation that we had before. Matt had

said something about how, and I can't remember who else who else

said what, but we were talking about the fact that the media

that we consume, makes it look like the the end is really the

goal. Like I was just thinking that we watched this, this

recent movie that was released on Apple TV with Tom Hanks,

called Finch I think, and you know, the whole journey, they're

trying to get to a certain place. And that's where the

movie ends, right? Of course, there's always you get this kind

of feeling of hope, whenever you're watching a journey movie,

where now they're about to do something new, but everything is

always geared toward the place. And then they're standing in the

place and you feel like, ah, they've made it. But that's

where the movie ends, like the whole movie you spent on a

journey. And so I wonder if we get also a kind of weird, I

don't want to call it like an indoctrination or anything.

thing. But we get this weird feeling through the stories we

tell that it is the end of the story, the end of the journey

that we are supposed to be looking for. And we kind of

start to ignore the fact that the only reason the movie or

story existed was so that you would take the journey, because

it ends at the end. So I find that a really kind of It's a

strange dichotomy to balance. Like you were saying, cat as an

artist, where of course, the end goal of the sculpture is to hold

a sculpture in your hand. And the end goal of taking a

photograph is to have a photograph. But when we only

focus on that, or when we think that that is somehow the most

important part of the experience definitely seems like we're

missing a lot. So I just wonder how much that plays into our

mindset. If sometimes the media that we consume kind of fools us

into thinking that the goal that the end date is all

Am I think is nickel cutting out though we was

going at ultra high speed sometimes also,

to say that Yep. So Nicole, you're you're having

some some lag issues with your speaking does come out but what

clubhouse does is it collects all that and then spits it out

back at us really, really fast. So just letting you know that

there's some audio stuff going on. It's part

of our new as part of our new productivity

I wasn't I wouldn't do it for productivity per se, I

just wanted to not be cold and also productive. Okay, I am. I

thought it's funny because you guys say that. And I weirdly

thought that it was you all who were having connection that she

said realized permanent that it was me. Okay, this is this

working a little better.

The better thing to do I found is to get off of

Wi Fi and just use your cellular service, it tends to be a bit

more solid if you happen to be in an area like that.

Okay, I'm going to give that a go. I turned off my

Wi Fi, we'll see how we'll see how the the five G's work.

Anybody from the audience today, y'all? Do you have any

experience with this? What it's like, what's your experiences on

the journey? And is there a way we can fold those goals that we

need to have so that we want to keep going into the experience

so that we don't miss out on the fact that the experience

I mean, that the simple fact of just keeping that

as a thought, right? When you're feeling that pressure of God,

this sucks, or you know, I never gonna reach that goal or I'm

feeling, you know, like I'm doing some level of comparison

or imposter syndrome or whatnot. It is that simple reframing that

it is the journey and not necessarily this end goal that

whatever I'm doing now is leading me towards something

better, something more in line with what I want. And your gut

will tell you whether or not you're on that path. And when

you feel like you've strayed too far from it, it's time to do a

little bit of that reframing. If you suddenly find yourself not

interacting with your art or producing anything whatsoever

that brings you joy or brings you money or whatever it is that

that you find as satisfaction in what you do. The second you

start pulling back from that, take a look at what you are

doing and understand is this part of my, my overall journey

or not? Can I reframe this so that I'm not dissatisfied with

what I'm seeing? Or dissatisfied with this point in time? But how

do I continue like Kant said, Keep climbing that mountain keep

getting different views, because there's always another place to

go. Always another.

Such a good point. And Carol also has come up.

Hello.

Hi, I was invited over and over to come to this room

and and morning is not usually my best suit. But so I actually

made it this morning. And I was told you guys are interesting.

Yes, you are. And I was gonna say about the journey analogy.

I've been on the journey, enjoying the whole way. And now

I'm almost to California. And I'm looking to oh well how not

sure how you fit the analogy but I'll just say it I'm older and I

have all this work done all my artwork and, and designs and

things that could be monetized. And I'm a person that you know,

kind of I I just haven't been able to figure out the things

that are difficult for me to you know, all of the all of all the

business the technology I should have coffee for sorry. The

Business Technology, marketing and social media and stuff like

that. And when people see me My work they seem to really like

it. And, and I've had this amazing thing just happened

recently where somebody said, Well, this, this lady that's in

fashion said, I don't think you realize what you're sitting on,

you have a gold mind here, you know, when she saw my, my work,

and then I had the experience of somebody seeing my art saying,

You're the real deal, I don't think you realize what you're

sitting on. You know, not, they didn't both term it the same

way. But they were both saying the same thing. And I don't

know, I guess I don't know, where the the, you know, the

train is to California or whatever, you know, I can't seem

to make the connection to benefit from all my work. I've

definitely enjoyed exploring and creating original things and

things that most people have never seen. And they've only

seen a tiny bit of it. And they exclaim all this stuff, you

know, that is real positive. But you know, I just don't know how,

how to finally arrive at, you know, the end of the rainbow,

I've been enjoying the rainbow to change the analogy along the

way. Because that's just I have to do it. It doesn't matter if

at at this point, it does matter. But it wasn't ever about

the money. It wasn't ever about the acclaim of anybody seeing

it, but I have to say I'm enjoying that part. But it was

about the experimentation, like a scientist with art, you know,

just going all these different directions. And so enjoying

doing all that and feeling I got, I'm finally doing what I've

always wanted to do, and I just have so many ideas. I just want

to keep exploring. And that's that almost is the problem. I

want to keep exploring. On the other hand, since I'm almost

California. I don't want my stuff to end up in a thrift shop

somewhere. Because people haven't seen it. You know, and,

man, I'm not a salesman. I don't maybe I'm selling like I'm

selling my stuff right now. I don't know, I guess that's what

people do. But I really don't like that part. I want to just

continue to make the art and stuff. So anyway, I don't know

what you guys have to say about that. Carolyn den speaking.

Thanks.

You are so welcome, Carol. It's so nice to

have you here. And thanks for sharing that then you seem to be

kind of in this happy place of discovery and excitement,

excitement. And I just have a quick question for you maybe to

help us understand you said I'm close to California, would you

be able to describe what California looks like to you

right now where you are just a brief description of what does

that goal look like to you?

It would be to me having options that

unfortunately, money creates, you know, being able to move, my

very ideal place would be you know, to maybe live in a 500

square foot space. The Living part isn't important. But what's

important is the 2000 square foot or 10,000 square foot

whatever because I already feel 2000 square foot of art this

space to be able to show sell, organized teach have workshops,

you know 2000 square foot warehouse. I don't care if it's

air conditioned or not. You know that I can be there all night if

I want to it's right by my house. Those things you know you

can't I mean suburbia, four bedroom house and our house is

like a studio. It's there's no comfortable place for my poor

retired husband to enjoy the space at all, you know, but it

but it all takes capital and I have all this capital I'm

tripping over. I just don't know how to make that happen. Carolyn

done. I hope that wasn't too long.

No, not at all. Carol. I was just sitting here

thinking about your experience and how it's really interesting

that we can kind of think of the same analogy, but at different

parts, and I certainly can identify with you in being so

into the journey and seeing so many wonderful opportunities. to

stop and explore that all of a sudden, you find yourself three

quarters of the way through and you go, Oh, man, I did not

prepare myself for the end at all. And what does that look

like for me, we're kind of, we're in a situation like that

my husband is about to retire from the military. And we are

forced for the first time to ask ourselves, not how we can make

our situation, or make ourselves love the situation that we're

in, but how we can decide for ourselves what we want the end

goal to be. And it's definitely a different mindset and requires

a whole different, a whole different approach. So I really

appreciate you sharing that story. And also, I, I definitely

understand where you're where what California looks like for

you for that freedom to have a space to, to create and sell and

teach and for your art to have its own place. It's not

necessarily eating up your home, but is a place people can come

to not only to learn, but to get into by an experience. And so if

you were in Carolyn's place, and you had a lifetime's worth of

art there and experience, how do you go about then getting the

California getting to that place? What are the steps that

you take to start selling that art, and your designs and all of

the other things so that you can have the new journey that

California is going to afford? If you're in the audience today,

and you've been on that journey, and you think you have an

answer? We'd love to have you raise your hand. Other

moderators? What do you guys think? How does she move?

I think there's the, the expectation that we

have to do everything ourselves. And quite frankly, Carol, it

sounds like that would be a bit overwhelming. So find people

that can help find people that can promote your work, talk to

an agent, talk to an agency, say, Here's my body of work.

What can we do here, right, because a business isn't your

thing, don't make business your thing. At this point, right?

Find people that can help find an agency, find a manager, find

someone in the fashion industry that digs your patterns. And,

you know, maybe you can do some sort of collaboration and look

for, you know, points on whatever sales get made. But

it's kind of like those of us that do photography, and we

don't want to outsource anymore, it's we don't want to retouch

anymore and we want to outsource it, same kind of thing,

outsource the business part, I understand that it will probably

cost you a little bit. But if you're looking for a way to

monetize, you know, what you've created over an entire lifetime,

start looking for outside help. And, you know, start talking to

people that you trust. And you know, find those managers find

those agencies that might be able to point you in the right

direction, or just help you out, right.

And if you have not yet gone over to Carol's

Instagram page, which you can highly encourage you to go check

it out, she has really fun, bold patterns that are full of life

and energy. And I can certainly see why something like this

would really catch on and just make people want to wear things

that make them feel full of life. So I'm highly encourage

you guys to go check it out. And I would agree with Matt, I

think, you know, if it's important for us to recognize if

we are artists, or business people or both, some of us, like

cat are amazing at both others are really struggling one area

or the other. Maybe we're a fantastic business person. But

getting to the art part is difficult for us. I'm the

opposite direction, I will make everything under the sun. But

running a business has always been a struggle for me. So I

would definitely agree with Matt, I would really encourage

you to see if you can find people who can start helping you

get the message about your work out. I am happy to share your

Instagram page on my Facebook and let people know that you're

there. Maybe everybody else can do the same. If you go and have

a look at Carol's Instagram, maybe you can share that in your

stories. If you connect with the type of work that she does, or

you think you know, somebody who would really love to get their

hands on some of those designs. They're so fun and bold. So

that's a really fantastic place to start. And then there are

also places that you can look, I know that not all of us are so

flush with cash, that we can hire someone outright. There are

also places like Upwork where you can work with folks, you can

find out what their budget is, what their what their minimum

required requirements are how much they would charge and work

with folks there. And for a lot of folks, working with somebody

in a different economy can make a big difference because you can

really contribute to their way of life and help raise them up

and appreciate the the work that they do, while also being able

to access something that you can afford. So that's a place that

you might be able to look as well to find some of the help

that Matt is mentioning. Anybody else any more ideas for Carol

and some of the

I always recommend that if you are

interested in I don't want to say turning it into a business

but at least having avenues to to have your art live or sell or

whatever it is. Be curious about the industry where that kind of

art sells like how does it work? How does it you know, even puck

like like Matt says maybe you could just talk to somebody

simply to understand the business or the market or the

industry. Related to that art, just just because that's kind of

will give you a little hints about the possibilities, right,

because it's not just about selling it or having an agent

sell it or, or it's not just for the fashion industry, it could

be you'd be surprised where it where it can be where it where

you can either sell it or or display it or whatever. So just

be curious about the actual thing, and how it works in real

life outside of your,

you know, your realm. I just want to say thank you for

that. I definitely took notes. I feel like I have been trying all

along the way. And every time I have, you know, not met with

success or made that that vital connection and all before

clubhouse, okay, I think clubhouse offers, you know,

visibility and, and connection and things like that. But I

opened my first Shopify, and my husband's trying to help me and

he's like, wow, now I have to learn this and that and this and

that. And he said, even when I worked, I used to have days off,

because I'm a hard hitter, I want to keep working every day.

I don't want to make him feel like he has to you know, I

didn't say he has to help me with anything. He's been just

really great about that. But yeah, it's about that

connection, it, it seems to always go back to that, you

know, who you know, kind of thing because this lady is like

the head of some Canadian fashion console. And she showed

me that there's this 30 year old millionaire, that has the

tiniest fraction compared to what I have, and, you know,

quality wise, you know, I didn't find her worthwhile, that

interesting. And she's, she has her own her own whole, you know,

companies selling her, her designs on clothing and things

like that. And now she's tried to expand on, you know, teaching

other things, I don't feel like she has the body of work at all.

If she can do it, she must have known somebody that has been

she, she must be really wise in those areas that obviously I'm

not, I did check into Fiverr. And I tried to see about, you

know, getting patterns turned into vector because I found out

the way I was producing them was too low resolution for the

industry and stuff like that. I didn't have any luck, I had

three responses, no follow through. But I did hear about

Upwork I just need to formulate what I need to ask them. I'm not

sure what all they can do. But if they can, if I can find a rep

or something that that would be ideal. I want to keep working,

you know, that is my forte. And I do realize I can't do

everything I don't even want to I am not ADHD I'm not if you're

not interested in it, you're not going to want to do it, right.

That's probably part of the problem. But I'm willing to

throw some money at it for sure. I don't have a lot. I'm on

Social Security. We have a little bit saved. So I had to be

very careful. And that's scary because everybody on clubhouse

can help you just sign up for this you know. So anyway, that,

you know, how do I find someone that is trusted that that really

is in an industry because these guys, they're not in the

industry. They're in the industry of selling their

workshops and, and things like that, you know, so I need to

make a connection where everybody would love that

connection. You know, that is an artist kind of thing? I don't

know, I haven't been able to make the jump. So yes, I'm

absolutely open to hearing from people. And thank you so much

for all you said I'd so appreciate.

Absolutely. As we are coming here, too, we've kind

of past the end of our hour a little bit, but that's okay. Cuz

we had a fantastic conversation today. And it was really, really

wonderful to hear from you, Carol. And like I said, I hope

that everybody will go and give Carol's Instagram a like and a

share. Let people know that she's out there. Carol, where

can we find your store? Your Shopify, is that up and running

it?

Yes, it is. It's the same name as what's on my

profile. It's www that a carol original.com.

Beautiful. Okay, so go check out her stuff, find

some ways that you can share her work. And if you I have been out

of the fashion industry for a little while. So I don't,

unfortunately, have anybody that I can put you in contact with,

aside from the fact that there's a whole lot of photographers

here. And so those kinds of collaborations can always be

really incredibly helpful. And so that might be something worth

looking into. Just about everybody here is a photographer

of some stripe. And having that additional visibility can always

be a really great thing. So that might be something worth looking

into. But if you do have connections out there, where

Carol might be able to take advantage of those or you think

it would be a really good fit. Feel free to message Carolyn,

throw those her way. I see that David has his hand up. So I'm

grabbing you, David. We'll hear from you before we close down

for today. Hi, what's how are you? Good. Well, what did you

have to contribute to the conversation today? Oh. All

right. All right. That was unfortunate. So yeah, so if you

know somebody that you might be able to throw Carol's way,

please do that. If you have some ideas for her, please feel free

to message her. And let's keep in mind today that we are always

no matter where we're headed. The journey is the part that we

have to walk every single day. And if we're not spending those

days, in a way that feels worthwhile, then we need to stop

and check in with ourselves and try to figure out where that's

coming from? Is it because we haven't really prepared

ourselves for the end of the journey? Is it because we

started off without really knowing where we're going? Or is

it because we're focusing on that long term goal so hard that

we have stopped really being present in our everyday life, to

enjoy what we are doing now. And what we have available to us

now? Stop and smell the roses, guys. So make sure that you ask

yourself those questions. If you do find that everyday feels like

a grind, instead of a joy. If everyday feels like a struggle,

instead of another opportunity to live the kind of life that

you want for yourself, it's time to figure out what's going on.

And if you do, if you figure that out, man, share it with

somebody, let them know how you got to that place of making

every day feel like the life that you're living is

worthwhile. Even though your goal might still be a long ways

away. You just found the golden key guys. So share that with

people. Because unfortunately, none of us are promised

tomorrow. And if I come to the end of my life, whatever that

might be, without having reached those goals I set for myself, is

that going to be a regret? Or am I going to have been so grateful

to live the life that I had? That it's going to be? It's

going to be soft and quiet. I don't know. I think that's what

we want for ourselves. I can't help but think that that is

really the end of the rainbow. So let's be considering that

this week. Make sure you're loving your journey guys. And I

hope that you will join us tomorrow morning at 7am Mountain

Standard Time that is 6am for the West Coast 9am for the East

Coast, afternoon for our friends overseas. You can also check out

the Facebook group which is pinned up above. It is a

wonderful space where people share a lot of fantastic

information. So go hang out there if you'd like to join us

besom recently wrote a really really amazing in depth.

fantastic article about non negotiables. I know you've heard

him talk about that before. We've covered it quite a few

times in here how valuable they are and how much they can help

you in different areas. aspects of your life. So, head to the

artists forged calm, go in there, check out that article,

share it with people, because hearing about this idea of non

negotiables and how you can frame that into the way that you

think and work could really make a big difference to a lot of

people. So let them know that that resource exists for them.

And I hope we will see you all bright and early tomorrow

morning. In the meantime, go make something amazing.

Thanks again for listening to this live clubhouse

discussion moderated by all of us at the artist Forge. We hope

you found the information useful and that it helps you gain a

little bit of insight as to how you work on your craft. For more

episodes, please join us each week day on clubhouse or visit

the artists forge.com and go make something incredible