The PA profession does not look like the patients it treats. Sam Paik is doing something about it.

He's an assistant professor at Charles Drew University and he created the EDGE Program, which exists to help underrepresented Black male applicants get into PA school. That group is one of the most underrepresented in this profession, and the barriers are structural, not personal.

EDGE gives applicants what a lot of people get for free through their networks - guidance, mock interviews, someone reading their materials, someone answering the questions you don't know to ask.

Sam also pushed back on something I say a lot. I preach applying early. His point: complete beats early. An application submitted in May with a rushed essay and missing letters will lose to a strong one submitted a few weeks later. Fair.

We also talk about preparing before PA school starts, using Qbanks, and why so many students struggle in the first semester.

What we cover:

• The EDGE Program and who it's built to support
• Barriers Black male applicants face in this process
• Complete application versus early application
• Mock interviews and why coaching changes outcomes
• Preparing academically before day one of PA school
• Cross-cultural competency and social justice in the PA curriculum

Resources:

Free PA School Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

Mock Interview: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/mock-interview

PA School Interview Guide: https://www.thepaplatform.com/physician-assistant-school-interview-guide

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Mentioned in this episode:

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I'm so excited to have a very special faculty member on the podcast today that you're going to hear from.

Sam pike is a assistant professor at Charles Drew University and the creator of the Edge program.

And we talk about some really important stuff surrounding the PA profession.

So let's get into it.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

Alright, raise your hand if you are about to start PA school in the next couple of months.

I want to make sure that you are prepared because going into PA school I was not prepared for how to study and it took me a long time, far too long, to figure out what worked.

So for me, what I needed to study was QBanks and practicing and applying the knowledge that I was learning in PA school.

So I'm very excited that Roche Review.

Is joining us on the podcast to help you guys by sharing more about their didactic CU banks.

So these are amazing.

I have studied with students using these CU banks on rotations and I've used them myself to study for Pants and Pantry.

They also have free webinars each month.

Lots of great resources for you while you're in PA school, but these QBanks will save your life.

That sounds dramatic, but just wait till you're in PA school.

So if you meet a PA student, they have definitely heard of Roche Review and have most likely used these.

So these didactic exams you can choose by subject.

Are what I love.

When you go through and answer a question, it's going to tell you the right answer and then why that answer is right and why all the other answers are wrong.

It will help you to see how you compare to other students and it's just a really, really great resource to reinforce your learning, which is helpful in PA school when we all start to doubt ourselves and feel like we can't do it.

So I would highly recommend checking out the Roche review didactic exam QBank.

If that's something that you are trying.

To figure out what is going to.

Be best for you as far as studying, make sure you take advantage of those resources.

We'll put the link in the description and let me know if you have any questions.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

I'm so happy you joined us for this week's episode.

I'm Savannah, your host and a dermatology PA currently on maternity leave and the creator of the PA Platform, which is a website all inclusive place for you to go and find out everything you need to know about becoming a pa. And the podcast goes along with that where we get to share stories and meet people who have really great insights and today is a very great interview that I think you are going to enjoy.

It's always fun when we get to speak with people from specific programs about their experience and what they're looking for in pre PA students.

All the stuff that you want to know essentially, so you'll hear about that in just a second.

A few upcoming things I wanted to let you know about if you are listening to this in real time.

We do have a live mock interview webinar coming up this weekend on July 31st.

If you've listened to this later it will be up on YouTube so that you can watch that and and even if you can't attend live, you can sign up and get the replay that we'll send out afterwards as well.

So that's always fun.

It's nice to kind of hear how other people would answer a question.

And I love the support in the chat where you guys kind of hype each other up and encourage each other.

So it's usually a lot of fun.

So that will be on Sunday at 8.30pm we'll put the information in the description for that and what else is coming up?

An exciting event in October in Baltimore is mappedcon.

If you haven't heard of mapt, I've.

Talked about them a little bit and we'll have more information coming up.

But MAPT is a really cool online tool.

It's free, you can sign up and you basically can track all of your stuff where you maybe have used Google Docs or other resources that sound similar but are paid.

The cool thing about MAPT is you can put your grades in your prerequisites, mark them, you can research schools.

It has the best GPA calculator I found and also you can track your experience and see it all in a very visually appealing way.

The PA side is still growing and I'm working on it.

If you have any advice, let me know.

But they're doing a live event that I will be speaking at.

I'll be there all weekend and I'm very excited to meet some of you guys.

It is the weekend of October 6th, so most of the stuff is happening on October 7th, but we will have a meetup that Friday night.

The sessions are great.

There's A ton of very specific pre PA sessions.

There's a lot of pre med stuff, pre health.

So especially if you're kind of on the fence and not sure what you want to do, this would be a great event for you to attend.

And if you can't attend, if you could pass the information along to somebody who maybe is in the area, your pre PA club, help us get the word out, that would be much, much appreciated.

We do have a code.

You can use the code PA platform for $25 off registration.

And I think the early bird specials are ending fairly soon, but you can always use that code and it'll be a great time.

So would love to see you there.

I'm excited to explore Baltimore and it's like right on the harbor, which I've heard is beautiful and really cool.

Might be doing a boat trip, I don't know.

But it should be a lot of fun.

So if you have any questions about that, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram.

But we'll get into our interview with Sam.

So Sam and I connected about a year ago over something called the Edge program.

So Sam is a clinical PA who is now in academics.

He's an assistant professor at Charles Drew University.

He just has a huge heart for missions and really big goals.

And so he took a really interesting path to becoming a page.

And then once he got into the profession, he saw we've talked about on social media some how the PA profession is not particularly diverse and tends to be going in the wrong direction.

So he has created a program that helps black men specifically matriculate into PA school and help diversify our career.

The name of the program is the Edge Program.

I don't believe they're taking applications currently,.

But stay on the lookout and we'll.

Let you know whenever that opens back up.

We been helping out with mock interviews and some things for the students in that program and it's really cool to get the feedback of what's going on, who's been accepted and that kind of stuff.

So we'll hear from Sam and I think this will give you good insight into what PA schools are looking for, our career and things you should be aware of.

So we'll get into it.

And as always, if you have any questions, feel free to email me.

Reach out on social media and I would love to connect with you.

Yeah, I was a biology major, I'm from Chicago area and I was always interested in medical missions actually, so I did a lot.

I traveled all over the world, Panama, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, A Lot of South America, Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand.

So I went up.

That was, like, my passion.

I wasn't really interested in medicine.

I just wanted to help people.

So I thought at one point that medicine was, like, a very practical way.

I'm just like a total guy, I just think very practically.

And then I heard about a profession from my cousin or something like that, because it wasn't super, super well known even then.

And then I applied, got in.

I did my school in Savannah, Georgia.

I worked a year and a half in the ER in emergency medicine in rural Illinois.

I had, like, a existential crisis.

So I moved to Mexico, lived there for about a year, did a. I worked at a migrant farm village, learned some Spanish, treated some kids out of, like, a church.

And then I had some friends out in California.

And I'm like, I'm young and single, you know, I have a disposable income now, so why not move to California?

So I moved out here probably seven, eight years ago, something like that.

And I've been working in emergency medicine.

And after the pandemic, like many people, we had this.

Another existential crisis.

I guess I. I get two, maybe two in my life.

We.

I decided that I wanted to go back to my roots and maybe start a PA program in Thailand, because I really love my time.

I'm not Thai.

I don't speak Thai or anything like that.

But we went to these rural villages up in the mountains where they didn't speak Thai.

They had no access or very little access to any sort of care with a team and did a lot of OB care there.

And they took a, you know, portable ultrasound, did all the ultrasound for the.

For the ladies and moms there.

And I was thinking, you know, how can I help people?

You know, I'm not a researcher.

I'm not a government official.

But, you know, what.

What am I?

I'm a pa. And, you know, why were we created to help increase the access to health care.

So could we create a PA program in another country like Thailand?

How is it.

What's the easiest way to do that?

What's, like, the most logical way is to get into education.

I wrote a book before that.

I have no idea why.

I just try random things.

And my wife edited actually how to Get Into School and Beyond.

The director happened to read that, and she might be one of, like, two people that read that.

And then I got into the education profession.

So for the past two and a half years, I've been teaching gi.

I've been a clinical coordinator, obviously teaching emergency medicine.

And I didn't know my program, I didn't know an hbcu, which is for your audience that doesn't know what that is.

Historically black college and university and we're also Hispanic serving.

Hispanic serving institution.

I wanted to increase like diversity and access to healthcare.

Same values I've always had, just like a different population.

Honestly, I really love it.

I really love it.

I'm glad no one's ever dying in the net.

So that's always nice.

So the stress, not literally, but maybe emotionally.

Maybe emotionally during Facebook.

So that's how I got into education and how I'm in education right now.

Are you full time education or kind of part time clinical?

Full time there.

I might work at the hospital like maybe once or twice a month.

Not too often.

Just keep my skills up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cool.

Okay.

We have, we have a lot to unpack there.

Like a lot because you've been all over and done a lot.

Which I think first I want to talk about missions and international medicine because I think they get a mixed, their mixed opinions about that.

And so I have a little experience, not nearly as extensive as yours, and I feel like I've seen both good and bad ways it's done and all of that, but from a student perspective.

So a pre PA student who is looking to go to PA school or PA student who's very interested in that.

What are your thoughts?

Are our international focused medical missions a good thing to pursue or what are some red flags there?

I think overall how like the western world has done these kind of missions is very paternalistic.

So we'll go into a country for two weeks, we'll feel good about ourselves and then disrupt their economy, disrupt their healthcare system and there's nothing sustainable which is, you know, really not good.

And even the year that I was in Mexico, you could call it long term, but honestly a year is really nothing to get started.

And you know, you just need like public health initiatives.

So if you work with like a government official there or people that actually have boots on the ground in the country and you're assisting them, I think that's totally okay.

And for pre PAs, I highly recommend it.

When I'm looking through applications, I like to see what we call cross cultural competency.

So you know, they're, they how to deal with people that aren't like them, don't have the same political beliefs as them or look like them or you know, Speak the same language.

How do you do that?

So I think these, like more world.

Worldly in that sense.

Well traveled you are.

I think those are really, really great experiences.

Yeah.

And I agree.

I think so.

I did some experiences in college and then in PA school and then afterwards as a pa and I think for me, especially after I'd been a PA.

For a little bit.

Yeah.

And you kind of start to get a little jaded working in America and sometimes you feel like you're just a customer service person out into Kenya.

And it was just really great to be reminded that like patients are the same everywhere and have a lot of the same problems.

But that was an organization that kind of like you were saying, like had really great just public health initiatives and came in, spent a lot of time in the community to help them get.

What's the word I'm looking for?

Independent.

Like set up with what they needed to have a functioning hospital and basically brought us into learn from their doctors and then teach about dermatology and then.

But their goal was eventually to leave and help this community just be set up on their own.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's something that's hard to research and like, know I think ahead of time.

But there are some really good organizations out there too.

A lot of bad ones.

There are some good ones.

There are some good ones.

There are some not good ones.

So yeah, it's tough and, and that's.

But I think overall, like, it is a good, good experience, like you said, gives you good perspective.

So we connected, I guess about a year ago.

Yeah, maybe.

Kind of.

I think you reached out with the EDGE program that you started.

Is that correct?

Yeah, yeah.

You're thing you started.

Can you tell us a little bit about that and kind of the background and.

Yeah, EDGE was the idea of my program director, Dr. Lucy Kibe.

Okay, okay.

So she and I had a conversation.

We're like, you know, blackmails.

I mean, we have trouble as an HBCU getting them.

Everyone has probably a much harder time finding these black males.

And we, you know, we'll have maybe four in our class of 26, but there's so many that apply that fall through the cracks.

How do we can we create a pipeline project for that?

So with like very little money or funding and just a lot of elbow grease on our part, we contacted some social media companies and some Instagram handles and some different.

The national society of black PAs, the physician assistants of Color.

So we.

It's kind of grassroots, very grassroots.

And we reached out to these students.

They're pre.

Pas.

Many of them have applied one or two or three times already.

And we had 12 applicants apply.

They didn't know what it was.

They're like, do we pay for this thing?

No, nothing that they pay for.

In fact, we pay for a lot of their things, like caspa, you know, it can be pretty expensive.

So we covered a lot of those.

Yeah.

We did essay writing help.

We gave them.

We were like a resource center.

What else do we do?

I did one on one and I looked through their Casplay application.

Advise improvement.

Out of the 12, nine applied to different programs and eight got into programs, got interviews, and eight got into, you know, some.

Couple of them got into our program.

Morehouse, Kansas State University, Ithaca College.

I know someone got into their usc, University of Southern California.

It's not Southern.

Yeah, those get confused.

Carolina.

Yeah.

Different.

And so they had mentors and we did mock interviews.

Which PA platform really helped.

Yeah, I appreciated that.

So, I mean, honestly, I didn't know.

I don't know if you knew this, but out of those eight, out of those nine guys that.

And you interviewed a lot of them.

Mock interview.

They got in.

So thank you for that.

Nice.

Yeah, no, that's.

That's great.

And that's where I think one of the hardest parts about applying to PA school or even just wanting to be a PA is navigating the application process.

Right.

And especially not necessarily having, like, it is still a new profession.

Like, not having anyone who's done it and not having maybe even an advisor who can help you or somebody in your family.

Like, there's just.

It's hard to know where to go.

Right.

For help.

And so I think that's really cool that you all were able to really streamline it and help kind of direct students.

And you may remember, too.

I think that's May.

I don't know.

That's when a study came out that basically said the PA profession is becoming less diverse.

Yeah.

Some of the data right now.

Yeah.

And it, like, it just was very strange.

Like, why is that?

I. I have my thoughts.

I.

And looking at the data, I would have to pull the paper back up.

But I feel like part of the problem is people don't know about the PA profession until it's, quote, too late.

Yeah.

And so then because of the way the application process is set up, it can be very discriminatory to anybody who maybe had a rough semester or didn't figure things out quite quick enough.

Right.

And then when there's.

Sorry, we, we rant about this in my Facebook group all the time, then there's, you know, the expectation of getting experience, but the jobs don't pay very well.

Yeah.

How do you live?

Yeah, it's just so much.

So what are your thoughts on our profession?

And clearly like you're trying to help but like what, what issues do we have?

We have a lot of issues, but what issues do we have?

Yeah, so I mean there's a lot of things.

PA schools generally make a lot of money for institutions.

And that's most PA programs.

So it's a money maker.

And how that is, how we're like governed is, you know, RPA and stuff.

And they want to see pants scores and they want, and that's like the main success for like a PA program to be accredited and get funding and get on the, you know, U.S. world News Ranking and stuff like that.

But when you look at like what is a successful pa?

It's an empathetic person.

It's someone who can speak to all different kinds of people.

It's people who look out, be advocates.

But those are non measurables and I'm sure you could someday, but we don't have those measurables of success.

So I think our whole view of success is just way off.

Because I mean, if PA is cool, if the PA, if your RPA profession is like 100 page book, right.

Let's say we, you know, we're PAs for like 40 years or whatever.

I don't know, maybe 50 depends on if there's Social Security when we're older.

But the pa, when you're in PA school, it's like pages one through five, you know, it's very insignificant later on, but it is the main gatekeeper for most people.

So I would say there's not enough emphasis on like, you know, diversity and reaching out to rural areas and also family practice.

You know, a lot of PAs won't go to family practice because the money and that is like a whole global economic issue that is way beyond just the PA profession.

You know, that's, that's just the, you know, privatization of, of healthcare.

So that's not nothing that I'm willing to touch right now.

But I can, you know, do whatever is in my capabilities, which is like increasing the diversity of the PA profession.

Yeah.

And that's, I mean, I think schools are, are trying to do a better job of that.

I've found in the past, probably year to two years, connecting with a lot more high school groups, talking to high schoolers, and getting a lot more interest and messages and emails from high schoolers than I ever have, which I think is a good step for the profession because that I'm hoping there's more of a shift to people actively pursuing the PA profession and not finding it later and feeling like, you know, then it's a good fit.

And that's where I've, I've always, I'd always talked to prepa clubs, but at that point it's a little different.

So then I, when I realized high schoolers were interested, I was like, okay, we need to talk to like high school pre health groups.

And that's who we need to be just telling about the profession so that they know that it's an option.

And I mean, PA is a pretty good profession, especially when you look at it.

I mean the, I think they say the, you know, debt to income ratio is really good for our profession.

Doesn't feel like it, but like, you know, you go to school for two years and you come out and you are your salary doing good.

Like it's very different than med school where you're signing your life away for four to seven to ten years or whatever.

So for sure.

Are y' all still doing the EDGE program?

Is it happening?

It's happening right now.

I'll probably contact you later this summer.

We have 20, 20 men now.

Oh, I forgot to mention that we are.

I've been just cold calling and meeting a ton of programs and we're securing an interview spot as long as those students meet the minimum criteria.

I'm like, look out for these students.

You're not guaranteeing a seat, but just at least an interview.

So if they apply there, they will have a higher chance of getting an interview, at least to increase their diversity.

And a lot of programs across the country have agreed.

I have like maybe 20 to 25 schools right now.

I wonder why.

I mean, the PA profession still is very female heavy.

Also, like not even getting to like.

I mean, and I just, I, I guess I thought that that would shift over the years.

It really hasn't.

It's very interesting still like that.

I'm not 100 sure why it might be just like we don't have enough male PA PR or something like that.

Yeah, I know my admissions director made a statement when I was in school and helping with interviews that she said that they would love to have more guys in the program, but the, the males that Were applying were not qualified.

Girls tend to test higher.

Really?

Belief that women are smarter than men.

So there you go.

So, yeah.

So I thought that was interesting because I think in med school, I think it recently shifted to where there's more female applicants now for med school than there are males, which is interesting, too.

I did read, like, some sort of data that says women are much more educated now than they ever were, and they're actually eclipsing men.

So the women that have a, you know, higher bachelor's degree at least and higher is higher than men right now.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

I, like, get.

Get in the data weeds and try to figure out.

I'm like, I want to know why.

I want to understand, because they will know how to fix it.

So the EDGE program is already happening for this cycle.

So if somebody was interested and they're like, hey, like, I am a black male.

I need help.

Please help me.

Where, like, next year would they look?

Would they.

For information?

Yeah, I sent a link, and that is a link to our website.

So I'll put that in the description for everybody.

The applications close until.

I mean, we're probably open up next spring, so we open up every spring, and then 20 is about the max that we can handle.

Yeah.

And if they're, like, about to graduate or they graduated already, those are the students that we're looking for.

Like, people applying.

Yeah.

With they're going to apply or they're like, you know, a semester away from, like, just finishing up a couple courses or something like that for prereqs.

Those are the students we're looking for.

Is this an initiative that you see other schools possibly, like, getting involved with or helping with or.

Has anybody shown interest at all?

Yeah, I've been speaking with Dr. Donna Murray.

She's at PAEA.

She's been helping out, helping me out a ton with this.

But we're looking to package this because it doesn't cost very much money, you know, effort.

And then could you do this if you were from the University of Washington, where there's a high indigenous population, could you shoot for there?

Or if you're in, like, New Mexico, let's look for Hispanic or Latinx, like, male or female students or something like that, or, you know, whatever marginalized or, like, underrepresented group you can kind of target and.

And really focus on for your, like, pipeline admission.

So, yeah, very, very easily doable.

Cool.

Well, hopefully this will maybe get to some faculty who are interested too.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolute.

That'd be cool.

So I want to talk a little.

Bit about since we'll be getting into school starting or a lot of people starting PA school this cycle.

You know, what have you seen with students that you feel like makes them successful and do well in PA school?

Or on the flip side, what do they struggle with from your perspective?

The data says that if you have a good science GPA that is high or there's some correlation with your pants or board success rate, that.

And I've seen some articles saying that anatomy, physiology, if you did pretty well during undergrad, you have a good chance of doing well in your boards as well, which makes sense.

Yeah.

Like applicants that get in.

It kind of depends on the program.

So you look at the missional goals.

So for our program, a lot of it is like, know social justice and caring for underserved and having the desire for that.

So we look for that in the interview and also the application, and we can kind of weed out a lot of people that, you know, just use buzzwords.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So those are the students that we look for, and we want students to pass and do well.

We don't want to bring someone in just for the sake of diversity and then they don't do well in the program.

So, yeah, science GPA is something that most programs, like, highly emphasize.

And a lot of students, a lot of schools are going away from the GRE because it's not.

There's no, like, correlation.

Yeah.

And.

Yeah.

It's just the standardized test that may or may not have anything to do with how well you'll do in PA school.

Yeah.

It's fairly useless.

Yeah.

In my humble opinion.

Yeah.

And so.

Yeah.

No, I think I've.

I've seen that also that the science GPA correlates.

And then I could see.

See anatomy and physiology being a big, big correlation there.

I think also what is hard for students sometimes is just the transition and, like, expectations going into PA school.

Yeah.

Can be tough because it's hard.

It's so hard to explain to somebody what to expect ahead of time.

I don't know if there's a good way to do that, but.

Yeah.

Is there one part of the application that you feel is the most important part or is it kind of more holistic, like really looking at everything?

It depends on the program.

I would say that you definitely need to make sure.

I think a lot of people emphasize that to get your application done early, but it actually getting it done, like, having it most complete as possible is more important than early because we'll get these unfinished applications.

Your letter of recs are still missing.

I'll export the data.

And then, I mean, we have so many applications, I can't go in and recheck to see if it got sent in.

So if it's incomplete, that's how I'm going to see it.

So don't send in your applications missing one or two things just for the sake of getting it done.

Right now I'm going to like cut that part and put it in five times.

Yeah, yeah.

That's important.

People can hear.

Hear it over and over and over.

Because that's a lot of the questions I'm getting right now is like, should I submit early?

Should I?

And I'm like, again, like, there's value in a complete application.

Yeah.

And you.

From your.

Like, you may not have time to go back and recheck everybody's.

To see if they got exactly what they needed or that letter from whoever they were waiting on.

Yeah,.

Yeah.

And there's, there's a lot of rush to.

To do that when a lot of times I feel like a week or two isn't going to make a difference in the long run.

Whereas a complete application would.

Yeah, it would disqualify you sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah, tough.

So thinking about kind of where our profession's going and whoops.

Kind of what you see yourself doing, are you still looking at pursuing, starting an international PA program?

So they had PAS in Kenya, which was so interesting.

Oh, interesting.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, it was great.

And they functioned very much like we did, like working kind of with a physician in some capacity, but had their own training and own education, so it was really cool.

I didn't actually even know they had PAS until I got there, but yeah, they have PAs.

So are.

Are you.

Is that something you're still thinking about or kind of just seeing what happens here?

And who knows?

I'm pretty content where I am here.

Yeah.

In the future.

You know, I haven't really thought about that because I was just so busy.

But yeah, maybe in the future.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's.

It'll be interesting to see internationally where they pick up PAs, because right now it really isn't.

I've talked to a couple UK PAs.

Yeah, it's a little different.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They are not compensated very well and yeah, a little different.

So they were kind of more like, hey, can we come over there?

And then I think New Zealand has some PAs.

I've never talked to a New Zealand.

Pennsylvania.

I heard that.

Canada.

New Zealand.

So, yeah, so we'll see see what happens with that.

Well, I appreciate your.

Your time and sharing all of your experience and about your program, and we'll definitely get the word out and hopefully help y' all help you out again this year.