While people are always listed first in the classic ‘people, process, and technology’ paradigm, when it comes to leading change, they are often considered last. That creates a situation where transformation projects may not be able to succeed, simply because the culture is too weak to support them. Karen Sammon is a committed Conscious Capitalist, and the CEO of a company by nearly the same name. She has a successful track record as a transformational leader, guiding organizations through digital, and cultural transformations by focusing on cultivating and empowering collaborative, engaged and high-performing teams, through servant leadership and authenticity. In this episode of Logistics with Purpose, Karen joins Enrique Alvarez and Kristi Porter to talk about her professional journey and commitment to the cause of Conscious Capitalism.

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This episode was hosted by Enrique Alvarez and Kristi Porter.

Welcome to Logistics with Purpose presented by Vector Global Logistics in partnership with Supply Chain.

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And now, here's today's episode of Logistics with Purpose.

Good day. My name's Enrique Alvarez and we're here together for another very exciting episode of Logistics with Purpose.

I have the pleasure of co hosting with Kristi.

Kristi, how are you doing today?

I'm good.

It's good to be back hosting with you.

It's been a while.

We've been in different locations, but here we are on screen together again.

It's.

It's a pleasure to be here with you.

And I agree, you've been actually traveling quite a lot these days, right?

I mean, can you share a little bit of your extensive traveling this summer?

Yeah, I have been traveling and house sitting full time for like nine months now.

So currently I am.

It's like a hundred degrees or more everywhere else and I'm in Montana and it's like 60.

So I'm glad to be really beating the heat this summer.

That sounds like an amazing concept and I think has allowed you to explore multiple locations because you.

And thank you for sharing some of those pictures and locations with us.

But what is house sitting for?

People that might not know what it is.

Yeah, so I am literally just.

People are on vacation or traveling for work or some other reason.

And so I am watching their house or pet or both and just hanging out at their place and getting to know it a little bit better and getting to explore new areas.

So I've been able to see places I haven't been before.

I just checked off my 47th state.

Wow.

Yeah, I'm really.

Which one are you missing?

I've got to get.

Yeah, a couple left.

Oh, I take that back.

I'm on 46.

46.

And then I'm headed to.

I'm already booked for Oregon, which is why I'm already counting that.

And then Wisconsin after that.

So it's been good.

That's why we have the ability to work from anywhere else.

And so the three of us know that well.

And that's been a really great opportunity.

We have an amazing guest today.

Well, do you want to do the honors?

Well, we are both super excited.

We've been trying to get this scheduled.

This is a woman of high importance, and she has had a lot going on in her new position.

And so we are thrilled to have her beer because we've been fans of their organization for a long time.

You've been able to meet her and a lot of their team in person.

And so we are just absolutely thrilled to have Karen Sammon, CEO of Conscious Capitalism, Inc.

Here with us.

Karen, good morning.

How are you?

Hi, Kristi

Hi, Enrique.

It's great to be here with you.

I am so fascinated by your house sitting.

And I was thinking that if you hadn't been to upstate New York, that we should get you on the list because it's another beautiful place that happens to also be in the 60s and 70s and avoiding all that oppressive heat.

Yes, those are high on my list right now.

Just avoiding heat is my main criteria and has been for the last few months.

So, yeah, sign me up for upstate.

New York for sure.

Definitely.

Definitely.

Hot summer, Karen, anything you want to share before we dive into everything else?

How's your summer been so far?

My summer's been tremendous.

We've traveled a bit and we have been home taking care of our property here and enjoying time with people coming to visit.

This is a time when everybody likes to be in upstate New York because the weather is moderate and it's beautiful.

So I've had my family in.

I've had my extended family in.

So it's just been a really nice time.

It's always great to be able to catch up with people and during the summer months.

That's fantastic.

Yeah, I love that we're excited to have you here.

Excited to have you on the.

A little bit of a break from your travels.

And then this is, you know, I guess we're coming and recording time coming into the end of the summer.

So we've all had good summers and are looking forward to.

Enrique's been doing some traveling as well.

So this is a good way to get us back in the swing of things, too.

Inspiring conversation for sure.

Right?

So, yeah, we're very excited, as Christy said.

Yeah.

So before we jump into conscious capitalism, which we want everybody to know about, it's an amazing organization.

But, Karen, tell us a little bit more about you and your background and your childhood, where you grew up.

Give us a little perspective on those early years.

Yeah, I love this question.

You know, I grew up in upstate New York, and so when I'm talking about upstate New York, I'm talking about the space between Albany and Syracuse.

So we're really in the center of the state.

And it is.

It's more of a rural than suburban.

And I grew up here and it was a magical childhood.

I had, you know, a great family.

I had a lot of freedom.

It's kind of place where you grow up when you ride your bikes everywhere during the summer.

You wait till your mom's bell rings for coming for dinner.

You spend time at your friends houses, going to the pool or just kind of drifting around and exploring nature.

And.

And that was, that was like the crux of my childhood.

A lot of time spent outdoors with family and just in enjoying being a kid.

The ways that we used to be able to be a kid.

Yeah, absolutely.

Nature, I think is a very important piece for you.

Right.

And I think it should be for our audience as well.

Right.

That's really a good place to be when you're growing up, just going out, enjoying nature.

We didn't have electronics back then, or at least not as many.

I had no electronics except for the point of sale terminals that cluttered up our house.

The business that I grew up around.

But I grew up in the late 70s and the 80s and so computers were just becoming a thing.

And so it was a really.

There was a sense of freedom.

And yes, I do really enjoy being out in nature.

I spent a lot of time hiking, skiing, just being with nature peacefully, usually untethered to my cell phone and with my dog or my dogs.

And so it's a way of me to be able to reflect and to be grounded.

And so I really appreciate where I live and choose to be just a little bit more detached.

Well, looking back into your childhood and can you share a story maybe that you remember that has shaped who you are now and that has actually somewhat pushed you in the direction that than you're heading?

Oh sure.

Throughout my childhood I was three things jump out.

I was always an entrepreneur.

So I had a garden and I would set up a farm stand.

During the winter times when we had snow days, I would go out and shovel, shovel people's walks or driveways, whatever I could do to be able to earn some money.

I remember starting my first company with my best friend Leslie.

And we our card, our business cards that we put under.

We would go to the shopping center and put them under the.

The windshield wipers of cars.

It was called less care.

And we would be.

And we did, we made it less care for you.

So we would help moms as they were or moms or parents if they were having a cocktail party.

We would do the survey service and we'd clean up or we would babysit and we would, we, whatever was needed, we would pretty much do it.

And so my childhood really kind of framed that entrepreneurship, the leadership, you know, and also, you know, as a, you know, the eldest of.

In my family.

And there was a sense of leadership and empathy for my siblings and all the kids in the neighborhood.

I was the one that was always making the games up of what we were going to play for the day.

And of course we played things like runaway kids and Chase and things like that would just like sparked our imaginations.

Leadership, entrepreneurship, creativity, all these things are from the foundation of my childhood.

Amazing.

And I think that, I guess as you were mentioning, it runs deep in your family.

You have like entrepreneurs.

I think your family taught you that early on.

Is that correct?

My father is an entrepreneur.

He's still with us.

He started several companies.

And so, yeah, so it was not something that I didn't necessarily know the word entrepreneur or entrepreneurship at the time, but I watched him as he grew first a government contracting business and then leveraging that experience and the technology transfer to start the restaurant tech, restaurant retail tech business that I ended up running later on.

And so I watched him as he went through the ups and downs.

We, of course participated and lived through the public offering.

So I experienced the perseverance and the.

His gratitude toward the all what becomes all the stakeholders, but certainly the folks that came along the journey with him.

So yes, it was entrepreneurship.

And that spirit of being innovative and creative was right from the very beginning of my formative years.

Do you remember anything that he might have said or one suggestion or comment or something that he kind of stressed out as you were kind of growing up when you went from, I guess, less care for you company, your first, I guess, venture to some of the others.

Is there something that he always remind you of?

So we have.

Yes.

And my father was not one to really mince words.

So he.

Things would come out as his daughter, that was a pretty free spirit.

And so things would come out with your priorities are inverted, you know, it should be work over fun.

And so some of these things didn't come out necessarily as being so, you know, delicate things, you know, pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

Was this a way of saying like, hey, life is challenging and, you know, you can, you can make it through.

So it wasn't like he had some like, inspirational quote for me.

It was, you know, these practical things that he wanted me to do.

He wanted, he really wanted me to be an engineer like he is.

He's a double E. He went to mit he went to Annapolis at the time I t and that he wanted me to follow, follow in those footsteps.

And I was, I am more analytical and because I'm a free spirit, it had nothing to do with that.

I wanted to go on to a totally different direction.

I'm curious, in those first jobs, what were you trying to save up for.

Now?

I just liked money.

I was a capitalist from the beginning.

I had, I, you know, I, as soon as I could get a job, I had a job and it was like I would go from school to work.

I worked during the summer.

I had multiple jobs.

I just, I had a bank account that when I went off to school I was already a set up and I didn't need to.

I could do the, I had the freedom to do what I wanted to do.

I could travel, I love to travel, so I could travel.

And there's all kinds of stories about the things that I did and where I went because I had that economic freedom.

And so I could see the value of being a capitalist.

And I want, I really wanted to be able to have my own business.

I wanted to do my own thing and earn my own money.

I love that lack of dependency.

Yes, it certainly set you up well for what was to come.

And speaking of moving a little bit further in your life, you also have a really impressive and extensive academic background, including Colgate University.

You had a fine arts degree, University of Cincinnati College law.

You studied corporate law.

So fine arts and corporate law not often seen together.

And then you had the stag in leadership and Harvard Business School and you focused on leadership.

So leadership education, you talked about those already and the capitalism part.

So tell us a little bit.

I'm also really curious about the fine arts versus corporate law, but tell us about a couple of those experiences during that educational period that allowed you to follow this path and that kind of set you up for success.

Yeah, well, thank you, thank you for that.

And education is always really important to my family.

My parents both grew up lower middle class.

My grandpa was a baker.

My grandma worked for like GE assembling radios or something.

And the other side, my, my grandpa was a police officer and my grandma was to stay at home.

She actually had a lot of like really inspirational things that she taught me along the way about being grounded and respect for others and understanding differences of opinion and experiences.

But going back to my experience in college, I did have, I have a degree from Colgate in, in history and fine arts.

And my, my interest, I said my father wanted me to be an engineer.

And when they were taking.

When my father was taking car public, I was pretty much on my own looking for.

We went and looked at the college search.

It wasn't the intensity that we apply to our children today.

And so I was really kind of on my own.

And it's in a guidance counselor's office and on the floor was Colgate University's book.

And I'm like, oh, this looks really pretty.

I think I'll go check it out.

And so I did.

And when I got accepted, they had no idea.

And so I went to Colgate and I'm in the liberal arts school.

Of course I signed up for computer science and math and I got knowing professor all the stuff that I was already good at.

And then it kind of drifted from that.

I'm like, you know, I'm already doing the stuff that I know.

I think I'll go try some other classes and see what interests me.

And I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I really found that the art and music was really was a wonderful learning experience from the history of it to the application of those different mediums.

And then the history part was just fascinating.

History led me down to a path of peace studies, women's studies and peace studies.

Like early on, we're talking in the 80s, late 80s right now.

And so it was a complete eye opener to me when I started to really dig into native rights, indigenous rights, so indigenous rights and other pieces, human rights.

And so that led me down that path and it really tapped into really the essence of who I am and understanding that, the differences in people, the experiences, the outrage, the challenges, and really to start to explore worldviews.

And then also looking at right where I live in upstate New York, we are the Iroquois Nation.

And there was nothing mentioned in my high school textbooks, very little in my college textbook.

Well, maybe my college textbook, that's where it kind of came to light.

But it was like, wait a minute, we're just glossing over big aspects of our history here.

And so that kind of sparked the other side.

So I knew that I really loved business and capitalism.

And then there was this human side.

So when I went to law school, I was originally going for human rights law.

And so that was what I thought was going to be my path.

And as I was going through law school, human rights law is very much interpretive.

It's, you know, kind of, it's, it's interpretive.

And so I'm much more of a code analytics by the books person.

So SEC regulation and the application of it was so intuitive to me that I would work for.

I worked with the corporate law head of the head of that department.

Loved it.

And so that became my focus there, as opposed to human rights.

But I had the interest in human rights and peace studies and women's studies.

That really shaped the other side of me.

Fascinating.

Well, that's amazing, right?

And I think that slowly, slowly, kind of taking a look at your trajectory from very, very early on, you can totally understand, at least in your case, why you're doing what you're doing now.

Right.

So you mentioned capitalism, you mentioned entrepreneurship, you mentioned leadership, you mentioned human rights and just being a good citizen of the world, which is, I feel, a pretty good summary of what conscious capitalism means as a whole.

But before we get there, because I do want to get there, I'm sure our audience is dying to kind of talk a little bit more about conscious capitalism and some of the events that are going to be happening soon.

Me too.

And.

But you also have an amazing journey, I guess, over 15 years at PAR Technology, right?

I mean, how did you.

Using all your skill sets, kind of adapted to that very different industry and pace and challenges and just, I mean, you came in and transformed kind of the company, the culture.

Can you tell us a little more about what you did, what it is, and what was the secrets to your success by doing that?

Yeah, I had two different time frames that I spent at PAR in my early career.

Starting off in, in legal.

After I finished law school, I made my way back to par and then into.

In from legal into sales.

So what does a lawyer who's discouraged by law do?

We go into sale?

So that was.

I didn't have any other skills at that point, so that's where I had it.

But in that period, I spent about 18 years at par working my way through the business and learning different aspects of it.

I left and went and worked for Roper Industries and their software applications business division as COO for one of the companies in that division.

Related it was technology for restaurant retail food service.

And so I, so I stayed within the frame of what I was doing at PAR and then was asked to consider coming back to PAR to take us through a turnaround and transformation.

And so I found that during my, my career as, as I grew, the turnarounds and transformations were areas that were of interest to me and that I actually could apply a lot of my experiences to being able to bring us through from messy to product.

And so when I came back to par in 2013, I think this is the area that was really very interesting.

The company had been public since 1982 and we're talking about 2013.

When I returned back to the company, the valuation of the company was around 60 million on 250 million of revenue.

So our stock was trading about just under $4.

And so we looking at where the company was at the time, it was fragmented.

We had been trying different, we had bought different companies.

And so I had to really consider what was going on in the organization to be able to get it back on the tracks.

So looking at was really the people that were going to make this turnaround and transformation work.

And we made the decision to move the company from predominantly a hardware systems integrator point of sale, terminals and all the different devices that go to it being sold to companies that the top tier, the enterprise, restaurant and retail organizations on a global basis.

McDonald's, Yum Brands, a lot of the stadiums.

So those were our big customers.

And the world is changing.

They're going from terminals to iPads and kiosks and your phone and your PC.

And so we had about seven to 10 years to make that leap into something different.

And we chose a path of software.

And so when you go from being a hardware company and all the systems that are in place to support that and the supply chain and everything that kind of makes that company and not to mention that it's a 50 year old company, to considering transitioning to being a software company with software developers and product managers and all the pieces that the delivery of that kind of a platform is also cloud based.

It was, it was a long shot.

Well, it's a completely different company, right.

Completely different industry, completely different company.

Probably different go to market, different compensation, different internal infrastructure.

You're changing dramatically everything.

Right.

That's amazing.

That's incredible.

Yeah.

So looking at that takeaways.

So it was the people.

And so as I was sitting, as I was thinking about how are we going to make this happen and be successful?

Because reading about transformations, maybe less than 25% succeed and our financial position was not strong.

So looking at it, we're like, we need the people.

Which then led to how does the, how does the culture support the transformation?

And I, you know, I talked to different companies that were close by.

So my mentor companies include Wegmans is a, it's a, you know, kind of an east coast regional grocery chain that had, had become the best place to work I think 17 consecutive years.

And like how does a grocery store become a best place to work?

How can we, what can we learn from Our partners and how we, how we're going to make this happen.

So, so really I doubled down on the culture and that's what led me to conscious capitalism in 2013.

That's fantastic.

So let's finally get to it.

Conscious capitalism.

So for anyone who is unfamiliar with it, let's give them a bit of an education.

So tell us a little bit about the mission and your role there.

Yeah.

So conscious capitalism is just backing up.

Briefly.

I go to, I get to, I come to conscious capitalism focused on the culture and just fast forwarding to 2019 when I left par, our valuation was just under a billion dollars and our stock was trading someplace about around 30.

So it's not because.

It's because of a lot of things you asked Christy about what were the learnings.

Yes.

The people make the business.

The stakeholders will help you take care of the business.

Focusing on your higher purpose is.

It helps you to shape your direction and not get distracted by the shiny objects that want to take you in a different direction.

And then leadership became actually the most critical.

So focusing on my leadership during that period of time and that and continuing and those of my, my executive team, so we had common language, we knew how to work through, work through challenges and challenge each other and bring conflict to the table in a healthy way.

And so we had the opportunity to really, to become a high performing team in a real, in the real sense and not a cliche sense like it was.

It is very hard work.

But the framework of conscious capitalism is based on those four principles of higher purpose, why you are doing the work that you're doing.

Leadership, which is an inside job.

We like to say in conscious capitalism that leaders get the teams they deserve.

So focusing on your work as a leader is incredibly important because it will shape like how you work with others and who, who will work with you building that culture and then really important also I think all these things are important, but it is the, is your stakeholder orientation, how you create that healthy ecosystem of the stakeholders that are in your ecosystem.

So that framework of conscious capitalism.

So I'm going back a little bit.

Like who invited you?

I'm guessing you were seeking this higher purpose.

You were seeking to complement some of the things that you were doing the, the culture.

Do you remember like how you kind of like stumbled into conscious capital?

100%.

It was as clear, it's clear as days.

I was working with a couple different consultants during this period, 2013, 2014 period.

And one of the restaurant focused consultants is, is Fred Lafront from Results through Strategy.

And he had just been to an annual conference from Conscious Capitalism.

And we were sitting, talking, and I was telling him I was only focused on culture.

I knew that the people were going to help us make this transformation happen.

I wasn't even aware of the other tenants at this point.

And he said to me, he brought me the book and he said, read this.

I think Fred is an avid reader.

And he brought me the book and he said, read this book and come to the CEO summit.

And I responded that I didn't have time.

I could read the book, but I didn't have time to go to the conference and I didn't have the money.

And he told me that I would take vacation and pay for it myself.

And he was so right.

The first CEO summit that I went to, some people will say, oh, I found my tribe.

I felt like I had gone to Harry Potter camp.

It was absolutely magical.

It was not just the.

It was the people on the stage.

It was the folks that I was interacting with that were sitting next to me and the conversations they were having, the openness, the vulnerability, and then just the diversity of the community that was able to show me really what could be possible and things that I could learn on an ongoing basis and the support that I received and the enormous support that I received.

So it's hard to attribute a lot of my success in that period and the success that parhead to this community.

Wow.

Well, that's an amazing story.

And of course, Fred is like a force of nature for sure.

I'm sure that you cannot say no to him after having.

You should not say no to him.

You should not say no.

Yes.

And you can because he's very persuasive too.

But.

But no, I. Yeah, it's.

It's hard to describe what the.

What the movement is and the CEO summit feels like.

Right?

But it really.

It's just quiet.

It feels qu.

It's just my mind and my particular opinion and my experience share here.

It's just you constantly have so many things on your head, right.

And just go to the room and without having even to talk to anyone, you're like, well, it just feels quiet.

It feels like peaceful.

Right.

It feels like you kind of belong, as you mentioned.

So.

No, that's.

It's amazing.

And so from that first interaction, you were completely hooked, I'm guessing.

I left the conference and with like a.

Probably like you with a long list of people I wanted to follow up with ideas that I had heard that I thought we could bring back and integrate into the organization a little bit.

I pushed a little bit too hard in some places.

You know, I came back, I'm like, oh, conscious capitalism said, and I learned that yes, and you need to bring people along at their pace.

And from that moment of oh, I'm so inspired, it let me then deter to figure out a path or determine a path for others to embrace the philosophy and do.

He did work on it.

We hadn't really crystallized our values.

We had values, but they were not really tied to behavior.

We did not have a higher purpose.

There was a vision and there was a mission, but there wasn't really a higher purpose.

And I'll tell you that our higher purpose became to recognize and unleash possibilities for good.

So recognize came from power, pattern analysis and recognition.

Recognize and unleash.

Because I really wanted to embrace the spirit of wisdom moments.

So instead of failure, you'll have these wisdom moments where you can try and fail and keep and then try again.

So unleashing, recognizing, unleashing possibilities then for good was like for longevity and also for to doing the right thing.

And it led us to two different decisions.

When we were picking a banker for financing for some of our franchisees, we had two choices.

Actually.

We had a choice and as we were thinking about them, they were misaligned from a values perspective.

And we went with a different bank, which business with one of the large chains.

I think we were working with Dairy Queen at that time.

So, okay, you implemented it par.

It worked like gangbusters.

It had you kind of realize how to level it and bring it in stages rather than going everything all at once with jumping in with both feet.

The other thing I'm curious about though, bringing it from trying to implement it within an organization, I also want to hear about.

So let's take it in two phases.

One, for just the perspective of what conscious capitalism is.

Two, about how to implement it.

So one, it's not a membership, it's not a paid society or anything like that.

So can you explain a little bit more of the model from that perspective?

And then when you're.

You're bringing it into par.

I'm also curious.

I think when people hear the four tenets of it, it makes sense.

It's very on message with what today is where consumers are leaning and is trying to bring it into an established organization, there's always some hiccups.

So what were kind of some of those lessons learned in trying to implement?

So first talk about the model of conscious capitalism, how you get in.

And then two, what does that look like in bringing it in?

Sure.

So the model today, Conscious Capitalism, Inc. Is kind of the mothership, and we have under Conscious Capitalism Inc.

Chapters.

So there's different ways that you can engage with Conscious capitalism.

We can, we as Conscious Capitalism Inc. Offer partnerships and memberships.

We have a conscious leader network that is open to leaders at different stages of their growth, with directors and vice presidents of companies of different sizes.

So it offers you the opportunity to engage in conversation, to connect with leaders in different kinds of lecture forums, resources for books, and access to consultants and coaches.

And this is the way we're developing out our conscious leader network.

We really focus on CEOs, presidents and founders.

That's really where we believe that Conscious capitalism has to start.

It's where if the CEO, president, founder is engaged, it is much more likely for the organization to adopt the philosophy.

And we do that also through our chapters.

So chapters are incredibly important to Conscious capitalism.

So we have we in the US we have around 18 chapters, 18 or 20 chapters.

And then we have a number of chapters outside the US Predominantly in Latin America and in Europe.

So you can join into a chapter.

We encourage companies to get involved in chapters locally and meet other conscious leaders within their own community, and then to engage on the national level.

And we also offer opportunities for folks to engage in person.

And so we talk a little bit about our CEO Summit, and it's a fantastic event.

And we have been having what we call dinners on purpose regionally so we can bring other conscious leaders together to have really interesting, inspirational conversations about business issues, social issues that impact business through the lens of being a conscious leader.

And so there's a number of different ways that you can engage and learn how to implement the philosophy.

My own experience was really through national, through the CEO Summit.

And I was saying that I was really enthusiastic about bringing the philosophy in.

And so one of the learnings was to slow down.

And so I was able to bring it in, in peakness.

Right.

And so I could.

So you could see where what part of the philosophy is most impactful for.

Your organ.

At the right time, because you're going to have people who really gravitate to it.

Some that will be, I think it's kind of interesting.

And others who might think it's, oh, it's the CEO's next great idea, let's wait till it passes and the CEO will come up with the next great idea.

So be intentional, learn from the community, try aspects, come back, learn some more, share what you learned, learn some other experiences, and then, you know Bring it through.

But I think one piece that I think would be interesting to for others is when I introduced Higher Purpose, we had a vision, our 2020 vision at the time we had our mission and we started talking about our, our why.

And it was to recognize and unleash possibilities.

And when we put it into practice, we.

The example was working with an enterprise client, Dairy Queen, who has 6,000 franchisees.

They needed financing to be able to implement the new solution.

And Dairy Queen was relying on us to be able to make this a successful deployment so they could have one system with all their franchisees, have roll up of information, just much more control and visibility, be able to integrate new technology in a more seamless way.

One partner, one bank that we were asked to look at, we were going down the path.

But they were just not values aligned.

And I was concerned that as a representative of par, that could be.

There could be friction.

And we went and we interviewed a different banking institution which was very values aligned with us and with Dairy Queen, the customer.

And that helped us to accelerate the deployment, provide really great options for franchisees and was a great benefit for PAR and positive revenue impact to our overall success.

So Higher Purpose really showed us the power of having that North Star, really using it to make the right decisions for the organization.

So slowing down, really leaning into the adoption of the philosophy.

And I chose to leverage the language of conscious capitalism so we could refer back to books that also shared our language and talked to other companies that shared our language.

And so that was really powerful for me.

And I can see how it's powerful for companies like Vital Farms or improving who really lean into the whole philosophy and have integrated into their business.

And so there's no.

They're able to really lean into what conscious capitalism's doing in support of what they're doing.

No, it's definitely a. I think it's gone from like a theory or a philosophy to a movement to something that's really going to be table stakes if you ask me.

Right.

I feel like being a purpose driven organization having this conscious leadership and a higher purpose.

It's just a competitive advantage that because consumers are going to demand going forward and they're already doing it, but it will in the future be the standard, hopefully.

And this organization is going to be very influential into making that happen and making sure that some of the older notions of capitalism are better understood.

I wanted to ask you because we have our listeners all over the world and they might not know exactly what the.

What the difference is.

Right.

We all understand Capitalism, some of us have some kind of negative connotations about it.

Some others feel that's just the only way to go.

But what is the difference?

What's the conscious part of capitalism?

What's the difference with the normal capitalism that everyone knows?

Yeah, I love how you just phrased.

Conscious capitalism becomes the way that we work in the future.

The way that we embrace capitalism in the future.

That is the objective, is to put conscious capitalism out of business, because it is the way we have changed the practice and the perception of capitalism.

I grew up working in what I just kind of phrase as the Jack Walsh era of business.

Right.

And so Jack Walsh did a lot of really incredible work.

And there was also some really, what I started to realize were flawed approaches to working with people.

The emphasis on shareholders over stakeholders.

And that drove a lot of my decisions.

And some of them just felt just raw, felt yucky.

And so as I grew as a leader, that's why I gravitated to conscious capitalism, because the consciousness part had a place at the table.

The.

We always.

We talk about that conscious capitalism being the intersection between purpose and profits.

It's not all purpose and it's not all profit.

It's that intersection between purpose and profit where we are.

You absolutely have to have the profit.

I mean, that.

That is the engine that drives the organization.

And it's a way that you can reinvest into your company and grow the ways that you're choosing to.

The consciousness part leans into humanity.

And I think you said this really well, that that business can influence humanity, and then humanity influences business.

And so it becomes this virtuous cycle when you really listen to what humanity's asking of business.

And so instead of becoming overregulated by government, who's not involved in business, business being able to do what's right from the inside out for the business, that also has a positive impact on humanity.

And so it's good for the business, it's good for humanity.

And that is the frame from which we look through what conscious capitalism is.

If we talk about business is good because we can elevate humanity.

Business is good because it's voluntary.

Business is good.

It's not perfect, but it is good.

And it can.

And we talk about how it can be better when the more people who.

The more leaders who are on the journey to do their own work, to be a more conscious leader, to support their people, to support their stakeholders, we can have this positive influence, the ripple effect that we don't even realize that we have.

Absolutely.

You also have Some pretty household names, recognized brands in the community that have taken up the mantle and are carrying the movement as well.

So people always want to be known by the company they keep too.

So if you could name a few more maybe of your more recognized brands and also tell us why some people can certainly be a purpose driven brand without being part of the conscious capitalism community.

But I'm curious what you hear.

Why do people want to be a part of this movement?

Why do they feel it's important and necessary and what makes them proud to.

Be in this community?

That's such a nice question.

We have what we call our heroes of conscious capitalism and these are the leaders of companies, current and former leaders of companies that are on their journey.

The perception of a business always being a force for good is an evolution.

Companies go up and down and historically if they've been around for fifty, a hundred years, may have had some things that they're not, you know, that we might not today think that are very conscious but they're moving in the right direction.

So we, we really focus on being a big tent secured by the tent poles, the four tenants of conscious capitalism.

Purpose, leadership, culture, stakeholder orientation.

Those are the 10, those are the, the tent poles.

And other than that, we are a big tent.

We are a diverse community, diverse in all ways, including ideas and thoughts.

So companies that are part of our community, Patagonia, Whole Foods, Unilever, Container Store, Panera, Mars, these are those household names.

And you could probably find pieces of all these conscious companies that you could pick at.

And they're on their journey to continue to do, to do well and do good, to elevate humanity again from the inside out, what is right for the business and that is right for humanity, right for society.

So these are some of the names.

Trader Joe's, continue to go Wegmans.

Well there's plenty, right, so I'm sure you don't want to leave anyone out.

Keep coming up on the bottom.

We will definitely put a link to the website, we'll put a link to the community and of course we'll put a link to the page where you recognize some of these bigger, more successful brand names so that people can know a little bit more.

And of course all very amazing brands.

For sure, the big names and those inspire us.

We look at them like wow, they were at one point like a smaller company and how did they do it?

And so that's like how you get inspired.

But you're inspired by the mid enterprise companies as well.

Those that are in your community that are really contributing to the gdp.

So looking at those smaller companies and those that we serve and some of those become the next big brand names that we know and love.

And all of them are really positively impactful communities around the globe with families and their team members and their families and their families, the environment, all the different stakeholders, the suppliers that they work with.

It's this beautiful ecosystem and web that we're all tied together through this common focus of doing well and doing good well.

And you what have they said?

Why is it important to be a part of this community?

What are some of the positive comments you've heard from them?

Why do they want to be a part of the community?

Why are they here?

Why do they show up to be part of this movement?

Specifically conscious Capitalism?

Some of these brands have multiple certifications or are known by a lot of things.

So I'm curious as to what they see as the value of conscious capitalism.

What are you hearing from your own stakeholders?

Yeah, I think a number of things if I boil it down the community.

So being able to be in community and also to access the community.

So that network of community so that it's.

With many successful companies that are integrating conscious capitalism, it is great to be able to tap into it to.

To help your business.

I'm looking to go to China.

I'm looking to start a separate division.

I have a culture challenge that I wanted to discuss with others.

How do you deal with diversity?

What are you doing about the remote workplace?

Every all different aspects through the lens of being a conscious company.

So community is really important.

Education.

How do I integrate aspects of conscious capitalism or all of conscious capitalism?

Where can I get support?

So what can conscious capitalism do?

How can you help me find the right consultants and coaches for my business and my executives?

And of course inspiration we really inspire by not only the leaders that are in our organization but but also the thought leaders that really push us to think about how we are addressing social issues, how we are thinking about business in the future.

These are the ways that our community, our leaders who come to us, tell us the value of what we're providing.

And so the chapters being able to get connected with people who are not necessarily.

Sometimes you get into your own industry and that's where your network is.

And you might step outside to YPO or EO and that.

But conscious capitalism provides you with a different type of a community and network in order to help you think through things through a lens of being a conscious leader.

If I may share some of my own experience attending the CEO Summit.

It just.

You mentioned all this amazing companies, right?

Big names, Patagonia and all this amazing companies.

And.

But you're there and at the end of the day, they're engaged, the CEOs are engaged, they're actually committed, they're actually open.

And all of a sudden you realize that we are a small business, right?

We're never, not even close to any of all these other big names.

But you're.

They're so open.

It's just amazing how kind of true it is that they want to build this community.

Because you're all of a sudden realizing, I've been spending 30 minutes with this amazing CEO of this incredible company and you don't even.

It doesn't feel different.

I mean, it feels like everyone kind of belongs to that.

And so it's just.

It's a good community.

Everyone feels like it's open and willing to share their experiences.

And I think they're doing it for the higher purpose too.

There's no bragging.

There's no, like, no one feels better than anyone else just because they are the CEO of a larger company.

And I thought that was surprising.

Really.

And very inspiring too.

Right.

Because you get to meet all these amazing leaders.

So anyways, sorry, I had to.

Yeah, I had to make like.

Better coming from you than coming from me.

Yeah, I had to.

And I agree.

I think that a lot of people, when we curate our events at the CEO Summit or other events that we host during the year from CCI and increasingly more in our chapters, we think about who the speakers can be and we put as much energy into who's going to be attending the event because they're interchangeable.

Everybody who's coming to our events, many people.

Many of the leaders that come to Aventos a CEO type of an event, they can be easily be on the stage telling their story and giving their wisdom and sharing their ideas.

And likewise, everybody in the audience shares with each other their experience, their stories, their wisdom, their ideas.

And so that is precisely how we think about the impact that we can have through our events.

So you really articulated your experience.

Enrique is exactly what we hope to achieve and look to achieve.

I highly encourage people that are listening if you have a no, it doesn't really matter how large or small your company is.

If you really want to kind of be part of this, you should at least just try it.

Right.

Like Fred said, if you have to pay yourself and take vacation, it's totally worth it.

So.

But thank you.

Thank you for sharing, sharing that insight.

Yeah.

And I Want to tie it a little bit to our.

So you mentioned speaking to our industry specifically you mentioned earlier even just the Jack Welch example, capitalism is more focused on shareholders.

Conscious capitalism is more focused on stakeholders.

So in looking at the those four tenants and building blocks and how they bring together an entire organization, how have you seen conscious capitalism impact the supply chain?

I think you even mentioned earlier people choosing the.

The people they work with.

You were talking about banks and different things like that.

But as far as of course moving the products, we.

We learned a lot.

Everyone has an education and supply chain since the pandemic.

But of course our industry has changed a lot and is continuing to change a lot.

How would you describe conscious capitalism and tie it to the supply chain in general?

For our logistics profess who are listening?

Yeah, I mean supply chain.

The supply chain is pro it probably on most businesses and their stakeholder map.

In my own experience moving from a hardware company to a software solutions company, my the supply chain needed to be part of our success and so it needed to be part of the transition and being able to support us as we were moving from one.

One paradigm to another.

So that was.

It was critical that we supported each other.

Other stories that I've heard are smaller companies competing against larger companies.

Container Store would have some of the same supply chain as Walmart and they were able to have favorable pricing and access to product even when Walmart wasn't able to.

Now this is the story.

So but because of the care for the supply chain, making sure that they were responsible with payment terms, that they were clear with their needs and how they communicated what products, what product, the product life cycle.

So these things were really, really critical in terms of like our supply chain and conscious capitalism.

I was thinking about this as I was coming onto this podcast.

Our supply chain, it's really our consultants, our coaches than those who support our events and so taking care to work with them.

Again, I've tried to think about the ways that it's important for conscious capitalism to be able to get the most favorable.

We're a growing organization so being able to get favorable.

We're not for profit.

Favorable pricing, excellence in terms of our lighting and production.

Being able to be confident that we're going to connect a company with a consultant that is done with care.

So we need to take care of our supply chain and all of our other stakeholders in order to make sure that it is a tremendous experience for the companies that come into our community because that is how they experience working with us.

And then they're projecting out and amplifying our message about how it works.

We have to just bring it down.

We have to eat our own dog food.

So it's really important for us to be able to make sure that we are practicing our business, our philosophy, our cuffs, couples and philosophy every day.

I love that.

Yeah.

I think about like the stories that I've heard from Whole Foods about their supply chain and the care that they have taken to ensure fair trade.

Mars talking about how they're thinking about their supply chain with chocolate and projecting forward the impact of climate change and how they need to make sure farmers are able to continue to grow.

Coco.

So the stories, like, you know, as I think about it, they're endless in supply chain because that is really so critical to think about the impact of.

COVID we mentioned that.

Right.

It was incredibly disruptive in climate climate.

When we talk about climate change and by and the environmental impact, every company is impacted and not only through their supply chain, but with their team members and the communities and the ability to deliver to the businesses.

So these things come together.

And of course, if you look at it through a conscious lens and you're like, okay, we all can play our part in addressing the challenges, but the supply chain disruptions of supply chain can tip the world economy very quickly.

And we've just, we just witnessed that.

Yes, very good way to say that.

So it sounds like you've learned a ton and are still learning a ton.

And I love that you have very practical, hands on experience of implementation and now as the CEO, you're understanding it in a whole new light as well.

So you've taken over.

It's been a little over a year right now, a year and a half or maybe almost two years at this point, but still in that infancy.

So what have you, what did those early days, those early years, what did you learn and how is that going to impact this movement as you continue to grow?

Because I think we will only can see it.

We will only see it continue to grow.

Yeah.

Well, what I've learned is the community is vast, they are committed, just incredible.

There's like incredible leaders and incredible stories everywhere I look, in every region, talking with people who are committed to and on their journey.

The conscious capitalists, those that I talk to that are inspired, the unconscious conscious capitalist.

I've learned that conscious capitalism was really important when it was kind of incubated back in the late 2000s.

And it's imperative now.

There's a fierce urgency of now.

Conscious capitalism serves as an opportunity for real dialogue.

The way we Stay firmly planted in a very, this is, Enrique said, like a very safe environment where we're able to explore different ideas and thoughts and ways of doing business and ways of shaping the world in which we operate with others who may.

We may not share common beliefs and different religious beliefs, different political beliefs, but that is not relevant for the work that we're doing.

These are influencers and important that shaping individuals and they're important for us to be able to work together and to hear each other.

And so what I've really learned is just the incredible impact that conscious capitalism can have.

I really believe that there's kind of three things that we look at right now that are our future, our vision.

Conscious capitalism will change the practice and perception of capitalism.

When we get to a million conscious capitalist leaders, we are working to be the leader in this business as a force for good.

It's kind of like a horizontal industry that kind of wraps around all the other industries and we are shaping our community into a marketplace where we will be able to support each other in the growth of our companies in our community to be able to support different products and services and in a way that will be incredibly impactful.

So that's directionally where we're focused on the horizon and then it's also, it's hard work and so bringing the message.

Thank you very much for letting me have this time with you because this is the way that we can get from one to one conversations to one to some, to one to many.

And so getting, getting the message out there.

We thank you for actually participating because we know how important this kind of conscious mindset and leadership is to not only companies out there, but to the world and to become a better society, a better community, better countries, better regions.

Thank you so much for being here with us today.

It's been a pleasure.

Thank you for sharing some of your personal stories as well.

We really value your time and we value you being here and we look forward to the future as the CEO of conscious capitalism.

The CEO Summit, it's right around the.

Corner, isn't is coming up, it's October 24th, 26th in Austin, Texas at the beautiful Hyatt Lost Pines.

We are nearing capacity and so I hope that your listeners are inspired to come.

And we have a great, we have a great lineup of speakers, both thought leaders and CEOs.

Some real life stories from within our community, breakout sessions, amazing food and networking time.

It's going to be a fantastic event and it's our 15th CEO summit.

So we're going to be celebrating our community along the way in very special ways.

And so it is.

It's been my must attend conference since my first CEO summit as the CEO HAR technology in 2014.

And so it's, I am so honored to lead the organization at this period as we are really transforming the organization and getting us into a position of growth.

Well, let's, as we wrap up, let's talk action steps for our leaders.

So obviously CEO Summit, we highly recommend visit consciouscapitalism.org to learn more about that.

But if somebody is curious, the book is terrific.

Conscious Capitalism.

The book so highly recommend that if somebody is in the early stages of learning, as you said, at par.

You didn't have of course one of the big pillars, this higher purpose conscious capitalism, you didn't have that.

You were having to build that in.

So for anyone else that's listening as the a leader of their organization, if they're curious or if they're trying to think, okay, how do I actually do this?

What are a couple of good action steps for them to take?

Yeah, that's great.

So tactical takeaways as I like to call em.

So we come visit our website, reach out and learn more about our Conscious Leader network which is a global offering.

And also come to our website and see if there is a chapter that's near you.

If you reach out to us through the website, we will make sure that a leader is put in contact with us and with other leaders in the regions where there is a chapter.

And those are two of the best, best first steps for leaders who are looking to join us and the contest.

The CEO Summit is an incredible way to immerse yourself.

And really about 50% of the folks who come, the leaders who come are new to the CEO summit and the other 50 are folks that return.

And so it's a good blend of people who are continuing on the journey and those who are just starting the journey or have been on a journey.

And we're looking for different types of support.

Perfect.

And I you mentioned it a couple of times during our interview.

But it's important to make sure that people understand it's an international movement.

I've had the pleasure of actually interacting with the chapter in Mexico.

I know there's a contingent in Colombia, Peru as well.

So again, no matter where you are listening from or where you're, where you were born, where your business is located, this is a global movement, this is a global community and it's very welcoming.

So as Karen said, just go to the website, start the process, reach out.

I'm pretty sure people will be more than happy to pick up the phone and talk more about conscious capitalism.

Karen, thank you so much.

Always a pleasure talking to you.

Insights.

It's really nice to spend time with both of you.

It's great having you as well.

This is my first time, so.

No, it's great.

I was just gonna thank you for being the CEO and of course, you're doing an amazing job.

And we can hardly wait to participate in this year's CEO Summit.

Fifteen years.

What a milestone.

What a great conversation.

Count with our full support.

And thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Karen.

I really appreciate it.

Have a great day.

Thank you.

Have a good day, too.

And for everyone else that's listening to episodes like this, logistics with purpose.

If you like what we're.

What you're hearing, if you like the conversations that we're having, please don't forget to subscribe.

Thank you so much.

And we'll see you on the next one.