Incoming Bomb Here: Your truth will cost you comfort before it creates your freedom.

In this episode of She Wears the Pants, Ashley Deland is joined by Jaclyn Shaw, spiritual mentor, bestselling author, and sought-after speaker whose work moves women into deeper truth, embodied conviction, unapologetic wealth, and radical self-trust rooted in faith.

Together, they unpack what it really takes for women to stop denying their soul, trust the voice God placed inside of them, and build lives and businesses from a place of truth instead of performance, fear, or external validation.

This is a deeply raw conversation about faith, feminine power, spiritual awakening, visibility, wealth, identity collapse, religious conditioning, being misunderstood, and the liberation that comes from fully becoming who you actually are.

If you’re a woman navigating growth, healing, visibility, or the tension between who you’ve been and who you’re becoming, this conversation will remind you that your truth was never meant to stay hidden.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to:

 • Trust your inner truth even when it no longer makes sense to others

• Become willing to be misunderstood as you evolve and expand

• Separate external validation from soul-led decision making

• Understand the connection between visibility, truth, faith, and wealth

• Reclaim your voice after religious conditioning or identity collapse

• Build a business rooted in conviction, authenticity, and spiritual alignment

By the end, you’ll walk away with a deeper understanding of what it means to live unapologetically, trust your own soul, and create from the version of yourself that no longer needs permission to be seen.

Meet Jaclyn

Jaclyn Shaw is a spiritual mentor, bestselling author, and sought-after speaker whose presence alone moves women into deeper truth, embodied conviction, and unapologetic wealth. Through her work, she helps women reconnect to the God within them, trust themselves fully, and build lives and businesses rooted in soul-led truth.

Instagram: @thejaclynshaw

Facebook: Jaclyn Shaw Facebook

Free Experience: Get Paid by God

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She Wears the Pants is where high-growth women come to build companies that match their calling. If this episode resonated, follow, rate, and review so more women can find these conversations.

Ashley Deland: Welcome back to She Wears the Pants, the place where high-growth women come to build companies that are matching their calling. I'm your host, Ashley Deland, and today's guest is a woman whose voice carries both conviction and spiritual depth. Someone who has built a global presence by helping women reconnect to truth, to trust themselves fully, and step into the kind of visibility that changes everything.

I'm joined today by Jaclyn Shaw, a spiritual mentor, a bestselling author and speaker whose work moves women into deeper embodiment, unapologetic wealth, and radical self-trust rooted in faith. Her message is powerful because she doesn't simply teach transformation, she has lived it.

Through heartbreak, betrayal, identity collapse, and spiritual awakening, Jaclyn rebuilt her life from the inside out, ultimately discovering that the moments that break us open are often the very moments that bring us home to ourselves.

And today's conversation is gonna be filled with faith, identity, visibility, wealth, feminine power, and what becomes possible when women stop waiting for permission and fully trust the voice God has placed inside of them.

So Jaclyn, welcome to She Wears the Pants.

Jaclyn Shaw: Oh my gosh, thank you. I'm so honored to be here.

And I've just got to share this. I started smiling the moment you said She Wears the Pants because it's kind of funny. It's a joke within my audience and my clients because oftentimes I'm like, I'm on Zoom, I'm not wearing pants. It's like the no-pants party.

And so I started off feeling this light energy as you said it. And then hearing you speak about my journey, I started to feel the emotions, like wow.

And I know part of your story from the event that you just spoke at that we were at together, and I was just feeling the emotions and the wow of like, we really as women have walked such deep journeys.

Ashley Deland: Yes, we have.

And I think the importance of those journeys is to be able to use these platforms that we create to speak the truth and transparency behind them because some of those journeys really suck. They really do. And we feel so alone, which is why I'm such an advocate for collaboration and community, being like, “Hey, what's your story with faith and with God and visibility and speaking presence?”

And I think that's why I'm just so excited to have you on the show today because we were just talking prior about how similar and polarizing and different and coincidental our journeys are with God, faith, betrayal, all of it.

So this could be a really long conversation because I think we are same same, but different.

So why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and just how you got started in this world of entrepreneurship?

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah. One of the things I'll hit on right away that you just shared is that I really felt so alone through parts of my journey, and I really didn't want women to feel alone.

Last year, I released my first book, and it was a spiritual memoir. It was a spiritual memoir. People often ask me, “Why did you share a lot of deep truth in it?”

It's called Spiritual Smackdown. It is this awakening and an experience of betrayal and life.

And people ask me, “Why did you want to write that? Why did you want to share that?”

One of my spiritual mentors at the time actually really strongly advised me not to and said the story was too shameful. I should just take out the story and share the wisdom within it.

And my whole point is like, I don't want women to feel alone on their journey.

I believe sharing the truth about our lives and our lived experience is what heals us. It is our holy work.

And so I often say I fell into the mentorship, the coaching industry. I wrote my book because God told me to.

And I remember the exact moment. It was like, “You're going to write this book for other women to heal through.”

And I resisted it for eight years.

For eight years, I knew I was going to write it, but I resisted it because it is vulnerable and because I told myself, “I'm not a writer. I'm not an author. I don't know how to do this.”

And then when I started to own the identity of “I am,” I am an author. My words are powerful. What I've lived is powerful. It's meant to be shared.

Well, I ended up writing this book literally in about three weeks.

So I say it took me eight years and three weeks because it was like, “No, this is what you stand for as a woman and within your business,” like being the truth of who you are.

And so I really got started by that, by the willingness to show up and to share my voice and to be the truth of who I am.

And I got very lost on this journey as well.

I started off and had a very successful first year in business. And then the second year I got caught up in, “Oh wait, I'm supposed to sound like this and I'm supposed to do this and if I want to scale, I have to do this.”

And I completely lost my voice and I felt like I collapsed and I started not loving what I did.

And I was like, “I'm just gonna burn this all to the ground and start again and start really bringing forward what I'm here to do.”

And there's been so much growth and evolution for me over the years. I've done so many different things, but what really has stayed at the core and what I bring forward unapologetically now, and especially the last year I've walked through so many holy fires, is I'm here to lead people in their connection to their truth and their connection to the God within them.

And I lead through conversations about God and money.

And we create wealth by being who we fully are, not a fraction of ourselves, not parts of ourselves, but by standing as conduits of God, being the divine beings that we are, we get to grow businesses from there and get paid in that frequency.

Ashley Deland: I'm also feeling a lot of your narrative is giving yourself permission too, which it's so funny how difficult it is to give ourselves permission to evolve or to transform or to be authentic.

And sometimes we have to step so deeply into our own permission in order to show others that it's safe to do it for them as well.

One of my biggest things is like, I give myself permission.

Jaclyn Shaw: To grow and evolve. I give myself permission to contradict myself.

And so something I said two years ago might not be what I feel today, might not be what you hear me say today, because that's part of my journey.

But I'm growing and evolving, and so truth grows and evolves. Who we are grows and evolves.

We have to be willing to give ourselves permission and operate from who we are today, like who I am today in this moment.

Ashley Deland: Yes, yes, absolutely.

And what have you found? Because I think we have gone through very similar journeys in terms of publishing books. Yours was more in depth. My second one will be more in depth.

But having to go against the grain on what perhaps mentors, advisors, or family members wish that you do, how has that experience been for you?

Because when we are on the other side of it, we can look back and say, “I really needed to do that to evolve into my version 2.0 or 3.0.”

But while you're in it, there's probably a lot of women that are looking at something as a pain point or a question mark or knowing that they have to unlock that to get to their next version and doubting themselves.

How did you talk yourself through that process?

Jaclyn Shaw: The biggest thing for me is that I really became willing to be misunderstood.

I became willing for people to not get it and for it to not make sense.

And often it doesn't make sense what I decide, what I choose to others. Sometimes it doesn't even make sense to me.

I'm like, “I don't know why I'm feeling called to do this, but I'm feeling called to do this.”

And so I'm going to because it's been birthed through me, because it's placed in my soul, because I feel that essence, that command from God.

And I'm going to say yes. I'm not going to deny my soul.

And honestly, being willing to be misunderstood has been the most liberating thing because it means I don't have to control the narrative.

I don't need other people to get me. I don't need to make sense.

And I often say this because I think that misconception about being willing to be misunderstood is that you just don't care.

And it's not that I don't care. It's actually that I care so deeply.

And so I say, “I give zero fucks and a million fucks at the very same moment.”

Zero fucks and a million fucks.

And what that means for me is that what I'm here to do, my mission, my truth, what I stand for, I care so deeply about it. It is so big for me. I care so much about it that I can't get slowed down by the people who don't get it, the people who are upset, the people who are misunderstanding, the people who have judgments about me, even when those are family members, people close to you.

Because I care so deeply about the conversation I bring forward for women, and I mostly work with women.

So it is more women specifically for me, like owning our power, owning the truth of who we are, being unapologetic in our nature.

Ashley Deland: Zero fucks and a million fucks in the same second is probably one of my most favorite things I've heard in a really long time. It's gonna be the title of this episode.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah, it really is. It's like multiple truths coexist, so I can allow for multiple truths to coexist.

And it's like I'm not willing to slow down. I'm not willing to retract in my energy field, to dilute my voice because other people want me to or want me to be more comfortable.

I just finished writing my second book, and the first editor, not the person who ended up editing my book, she was really uncomfortable with it.

Like her responses back to me were like, “This makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm reading forward with trepidation. You can't say this. You need to talk about God differently.”

Like she was like, “This is not okay.”

And it was like, I get that this is making you feel uncomfortable.

And for me, I was like, that's the point.

I don't wanna say things that you've heard a million times and write a book that you feel like you've read before.

Like truth in its nature is disruptive. Truth is inconvenient.

And I'm willing to be the conduit of that. I'm willing for my truth to disrupt because that's how we create change.

When we're willing to be, not try to be disruptive or polarizing, but just knowing when you're willing to stand unapologetically in who you are, it just naturally is.

Ashley Deland: How has it changed you?

Jaclyn Shaw: Oh my God, in every which way.

Like really how it's changed me is in every which way. It's changed how I show up as a leader in my business, in my relationships, as a mother, as a wife.

Like it shows up everywhere.

Ashley Deland: Mm-hmm.

I'm a huge contender of you cannot desire what you don't already contain and that all of those God-sized dreams and downloads are meant for you because it is up to you to execute them in this lifetime.

But it is so much simpler to stay silent and small and fearful, right? And to be part of the herd and just move.

And I think part of my passion and purpose and part of yours as well is to stir that up in women and to make them understand that they are here to be a vessel for something so much bigger than what they know and just themselves.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah. And exactly what you said there, the desires that are placed within you, those are God-made. Those are God-given.

And so I do really look at this when you say, “How did this change you too?”

It's like, I lead with what is God-made, not human-made.

And so recognizing that we're human and divine, there's no shame in the human parts. It's acknowledging the human parts, but also not leading from that human essence of where our human gets caught up in illusions of control and operating from scarcity and lack and the evidence that we have from the past. It's like, no, I'm going to follow what feels true in my soul. What is God made, not human made? And let that be the guide.

Ashley Deland: Yeah, I love that. So on stage, you heard a little bit of my story, and I very, very, very, very rarely share the story of my relationship with God or my experience with being in a religious cult. And I felt called to on stage for that reason.

I'm really interested, since you know a little bit of my story, what yours is when it comes to your relationship with God. Were you raised in a certain religion? Do you label yourself? What does your worship look like now? I just want to hear the story behind it.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah, it's so interesting. People are all like, this is like the number one question I get asked. Like, what is... I mean, asked in a different way, not in the way that you've asked it here, but it's like I get asked, “Are you spiritual? Is it new age? Is it a Christian God?”

And honestly, I feel like my relationship with God is so unique. I feel like your relationship with God is so unique. I feel like our relationship with God is meant to be unique.

And so for me, it's the connection to the God within me.

And I have been on a full journey, I would say, with my relationship with God.

So I was raised Catholic. At the age of 12, 11 or 12, I think it was 12, I told my parents I was no longer going to church. I just was like, “I don't believe in what I'm being taught here.”

There was just something that didn't sit right with me.

And then I was like, okay, God's a no for me. But I definitely knew I believed in something, and I just didn't have a label. I didn't have a word.

And when I said I often get asked this because then people are like, “Okay, so is it newer, more new age?”

And to be honest, there's a lot of things in religion I don't align with and Christianity I don't align with. There's a lot of things in new age that I also don't align with.

And so for me, at some point in the journey and in the experience, it was noticing that what felt so off to me for so long about any type of belief in God, the universe, is that I always felt it was outside of me.

So it was like God felt powerful outside of me, the universe outside of me, and I kept feeling like I was handing my power over versus harnessing the power within me.

And so the biggest shift for me was recognizing that God's from within me. God lives within me. God moves within me. God and I are not separate. God and I as one.

And so that allowed me to come back here to my center again and again and again, recognizing I'm being called to align with truth, align with wisdom, align with divinity that's already in existence within me.

Ashley Deland: Yeah, I love that. I'm a huge, huge, huge advocate, and I haven't heard a lot of other women advocate this, is that God is within you. He is not in a book. He is not within four walls.

You don't have to go outside of yourself to show up on a Sunday to worship him, to speak to him, to be in his presence.

And I feel like almost structured religion makes it feel like he's just this giant guy in the sky looking down on you, as opposed to the moments of the peace and the presence and the power.

And it's really a huge passion of mine to spread that word.

And I think that's why I went through such difficulty with religion, to now come onto the other side and have the relationship that I do with him. And that is to advocate the fact that he's not some big scary dude in the sky. He's actually within you.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah. And then I think that changes going to church because it connects you to the God within you.

And because when you're in a space that... I mean, because there's so many different types of churches. So if you're going to church and it feels like that for you, I'm like, yes, yes, yes.

But if you're going to church because, this was my experience, it's like because if you don't, you're a sinner, and there's shame and there's all this... well, that to me literally takes you outside the essence of God.

Ashley Deland: Yeah, that is so very true.

When did the relationship change for you? Because now your pathway is very... with the book and your courses, everything has the word God in it, which I think is such a beautiful representation of what your belief is and where you stand.

I'm in awe of that really.

But when was that shift and how did people react to you?

Jaclyn Shaw: So the first shift for me was actually my own journey with God.

And I was like, “Ow,” because it's a thick book.

And then I was like, “What is this?”

And Conversations with God, I was like, “What the F is this?”

And I opened it up and read a page and I was like, “Oh my gosh, this feels like what I've believed about God, thought about God.”

And so I did go on a journey of studying Conversations with God and Neale Donald Walsch's work.

And for a long time I used the word God for myself, but in my leadership, in my mentorship, it was universe, it was spirit.

And yeah, God... I don't even remember when I decided to fully own that the word that I use is God, that I feel connected to the God within me, that prayer is a huge part of the way I lead in my life and in my business.

And I don't remember exactly when, but I remember the feeling of hiding this is doing such a disservice to the women you are here to lead.

It's like you're giving them your business mentorship, you're giving them your money coaching, but you're not bringing in what's actually real and true for you. And it is the way that God moves through you.

And so, I mean, this was probably a couple of years ago when I started my personal brand. I was in a business partnership before where I just became so willing to be the fullness of who I am.

I'm like, my real belief is that this is what we are here for. We are here to be the full expression of who we are.

And so I decided I was just going to own it. I was going to own it. I was going to be unapologetic in it.

And then it's always been in my brand. It's always been in how I lead. It's always been in how I communicate with my clients.

And then I was like, my programs, I want women to know what they're getting when they come into my spaces.

And so it's Get Paid by God. It's Employed by God. God Speaks. These are the names of my offerings.

And the most fascinating thing with sharing this too and how people react is I actually don't really feel like I felt a reaction.

I'm sure people quietly disappeared. Other people have stepped forward.

I have clients who literally tell me... I have a woman that I've worked with one-to-one on and off for years, and she's like, “I don't believe in God, but the way that you speak about it and the conviction that you have, I just want to feel that about something. And so I want to come work with you to find my own conviction in that way.”

And we've had some incredible, powerful conversations.

And I don't stop talking about God with her. I talk how I always talk with any client. I let her take what she takes. I don't try to convince her anything.

And we can still have powerful experiences together with multiple truths coexisting.

And so I'd say I've just found my power within it, and I attract the people who feel connected to it.

More recently, because I'm getting louder, my vibration louder and what I speak about louder, I've had people tell me things like I am going to be tortured for eternity because of the way I speak about God and because I say God and fuck in the same sentence and because I talk about God and money.

And it's like, those are strangers on the internet.

And so people that are closer to me in my world, they either move closer or they move further away. They either get it or they don't. They're either a yes for it or a no.

That part is none of my business.

And again, really that willingness to let the strangers on the internet tell me I'm gonna be tortured for eternity and knowing that is so far from my belief systems about who we are, again, it just created more freedom for me. It created more liberation, actually having people tell me that because I'm like, yeah, so far removed from who I am and what I stand for.

Ashley Deland: I publicly say a lot on stage that my two favorite words are fucking faith.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yes.

Ashley Deland: Very interesting. How I'm going to particularly say that as a woman, when you step into truth and you step into your voice and you step into that visibility, how many people have something to say. But when you're silent, they're cheering you on.

So it's a whole evolution that has to take place, that's for sure.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah.

Ashley Deland: What do you think that women misunderstand about their feminine power, their godly power? What is the biggest misunderstanding that you see out there?

Jaclyn Shaw: Hey, this is gonna sound so weird. Like I actually can't believe it's coming out of my mouth, but the way that it wants to come through me is that the word good is coming up.

Like the misunderstanding that it's supposed to feel good, look good, be good.

And I do believe that when wealth is in the hands of women, when we are speaking our truth, it does good for the world.

But this essence that I'm talking about of it's not supposed to be good is in the sense that it's coming from a good girl energy or that it needs to be comfortable or that it needs to be considerate in the sense of, again, like I said before, your truth is gonna be disruptive.

And so if you're always constantly in this field of feeling like it can't upset people, it can't trigger people, well again, truth does. Truth upsets people. Truth does trigger people.

And so we've gotta be willing to not have everyone look at us through the lens of like, “She's a good girl,” or “I like what she has to say,” or “It feels good.”

You know, a lot of clients that work with me, they end up telling me this after the fact, like, “I was so resistant to your work. The first time I heard you speak, I did not like you.”

I recently had someone tell me at an event, “I'm buying your book because I don't like you, and I want to see if I read your book if that changes for me.”

And I'm like, “Great, let me know.”

She was like, “You're not going to try to convince me why I should like you?”

And I was like, “No. Read the book and then let me know. And if you continue to not like me, not like me. And if you change your mind...”

It's really in this place of we've got to stop trying to make sense to people. We've got to stop trying to be good. We've got to stop only making moves that feel good for ourselves.

I think that there's a lot of conversations about regulating your nervous system, and I mean, I'm a huge fan of all of the things and meditating and all of it.

But again, this conversation of like, “It's got to feel good. It's got to feel safe.”

This often, I think, teaches us as women to be smaller, to be quieter, to only move if it feels really good.

And when you're growing and evolving and expanding, there's going to be fear come up. You're going to be meeting your edges. It's not going to feel good and safe and comfortable all the time.

And this is where we're called.

For me, regulating your nervous system means you're able to also stretch in your capacity and to hold it.

Ashley Deland: Yes, that is so true.

Okay, speaking about all of those titles, if God removed every single title of yours, every platform tomorrow, who ultimately would Jaclyn Shaw still be?

Jaclyn Shaw: I would still be a woman of God. I would still be a woman who chooses to walk in faith because one thing that I absolutely know is that this is about my walk with God.

My experience here is about my walk with God and no one else's.

And through me being the truth of who I am and being a conduit of God and a vessel of God, it gets to impact others. It gets to ripple out into the world.

But at the core, I believe this is my walk with God, your walk with God. We are here growing and evolving as soul-led beings.

And when we do that and when we're unapologetic about it, yes, the ripple that it gets to create.

And ultimately it is for me first. For me first, for me to be the truth of who I am within this experience.

Ashley Deland: It's amazing. I'm interested, out of curiosity, what does your daily devotion look like?

Jaclyn Shaw: My daily devotion looks different all the time in the sense that I'm really not someone who works well with like a, “This is my routine, this is what this looks like,” because when I have a lot of structure and routine, it feels that energetically for me.

It's like, oh, I'm checking off the to-do list and it becomes that good girl. Like, “Oh yeah, I've done this. Now I'm a good student of God. Now I can be rewarded.”

I mean, I feel like my life is a holy invocation.

I feel like what I do, my deepest spiritual practice, I would honestly say, is conversations like this. When I'm in mentorship, when I'm being the truth of who I am.

And then I do have more regular spiritual practices, daily devotions, but again, it's not in this set, “Let me pray right now.”

It's oftentimes waking up in the morning and saying like, “God, blow my mind. God, show me what I haven't seen before.”

It's very simple. It's communion with God. It's conversations with God.

My kids are nine and 12, and I meditate daily every night with one, if not both of them, as they go to bed.

I feel like sitting out in the sun and putting my bare feet on the ground, that's a spiritual practice.

And so I really feel like my life is my life. It's the holy walk versus, “This is what I need to do daily.”

I'm a reader. I love to read from spiritual texts. And sometimes that looks like opening one page and reading five words from that book.

But what you said earlier, it's like God's not found in a book. I read books that remind me of who I am, who we all are, that spark this instant remembrance within me.

Ashley Deland: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

I love that answer.

Pretty much my takeaway is your devotion is your everyday life. It's your being in your essence and whatever you feel called to do in the present moment.

Because it's so easy to get lost in your prayers being requests instead of the relationship and being so worried about the future problems that we forget that God is really in that present moment and he wants you to feel joy.

My husband says often, “God is a gentleman. He sends you flowers. He sends you chocolate. He reminds you of his love for you.”

And you really only, in my opinion, receive when you're in that moment and you look around and see the beauty of what he has created for you.

Jaclyn Shaw: Okay, well that might be my new favorite thing, that God is a gentleman.

Like yes, absolutely.

And it is like, can I receive? Can I receive that? Can I be so open, ready, willing, available?

And this is something that often I remind myself when I get caught up in the noise and caught up in the lies that we all tell ourselves as humans.

Again, come back to this. Is this looking through my human lens, which is limited, or am I looking through the lens of God?

Am I willing to trust in what I don't yet see?

Am I willing to play in the unknown because the unknown is God's playground?

Ashley Deland: Yes. That is so very true.

Okay, as I knew we could talk about this for hours, but I'm going to wrap this up with our signature She Wears the Pants question.

And that is, looking back on your journey of wearing the pants, what message do you want to relay for future generations of women in business?

Jaclyn Shaw: Be so unapologetically who you are. Be willing to be so unapologetic in who you are that all of the noise just falls away.

Ashley Deland: Yeah. I love that. And it is so inevitably deep core truth right there.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yeah. And I feel like not unapologetic as this buzzword, you know, “Let me just be unapologetic.”

Like, be fucking unapologetic.

Be so unwilling to deny your soul.

Like this is it for me. It's like, I am not willing to deny my soul.

And so I'm willing to be misunderstood. I'm willing to be judged. I'm willing for it not to make sense. I'm willing for people to tell me I'm gonna be tortured for eternity because I am not willing to deny my soul.

I'm not willing to not be who I actually am.

Ashley Deland: Yeah, one of my mantras is I will die empty. I will die empty in this lifetime because of that very reason.

And not for anything, but we are two prime examples of what it looks like to live fully and to do so with all the permission for yourself.

We are advocates for that. We teach through that. We are serviced through that. We are a vessel for that.

And it's really nice to stand beside you on this journey.

So Jaclyn, where can people find a little bit more information about you?

Jaclyn Shaw: Oh my gosh, I will absolutely share.

But it is such an honor. I'm so happy that we connected at that event and met. I just can't wait for however our paths intertwine going forward from here.

So thank you, first of all.

And where you can find me, the place I hang out on social media is Instagram. It's The Jaclyn Shaw.

And then podcasting is really what I love to do as well, and so The Jaclyn Shaw Show is my podcast.

Those are really the two biggest places to come find me.

And I would say if this conversation is really resonating, my free offer is a place that I would just invite you to dive into.

It is a three-day experience with me. It's called Get Paid by God, where we talk about God and money and being the truth of who you are and becoming so unapologetic and really standing in deep conviction.

Ashley Deland: I love that.

And you said that you are going on to season five of your podcast?

Jaclyn Shaw: Season five of my podcast.

And this is my third podcast. So I had two podcasts that were in collaboration.

I've been podcasting for seven years.

Like before you said, if everything got stripped away from me, I would start tomorrow just podcasting again with a podcast because I love this.

I love these conversations. I love raw, real, no performance, just truth telling.

Ashley Deland: It's what we were meant to do.

Thank you so much for your time and energy. We appreciate you so much.

And you guys, go head on over to The Jaclyn Shaw Show. And if you guys are landing with this conversation and you want to learn more about God, spirituality, or Jaclyn, go to Instagram, find her, and just DM her and say, “This resonated.”

Because she's a perfect guide to take you into that next level of self and of religion and spirituality and of that version of you.

Jaclyn Shaw: Yes, please. And thank you for saying that because my DMs are always open.

Like I said, this does feel like my deepest spiritual practice, to have these conversations and to have these conversations with women who feel in resonance.

So thank you so, so much for this conversation.

Ashley Deland: Thank you.