Funnel Series #15

“Some clients see $50k the way you see $500.” If you want to charge premium rates for funnel building and conversion copywriting, you need to be working with clients who get it. But how do you land those dream clients? And what does a high-ticket funnel offer even look like? 

My guest, Abi Prendergast, is an Evergreen Funnel Strategist & Conversion Copywriter who specializes in high-ticket, high-converting funnels. She helps course creators generate $5k/day ($1.8M+ a year) using Day #1 Evergreen—a funnel designed to become more profitable over time. Abi has written funnel copy for top course creators like Amy Porterfield and Copyhackers. In this episode, she’s sharing exactly how she scaled to high-ticket offers, why premium funnel services are the way to go, and how you can start charging WAY more for your expertise.

Listen to learn more about:

• How Abi went from charging $6 per blog post to closing $50K funnel offers and the mindset shifts that made it possible
• Why many evergreen funnels fail and how to avoid the biggest mistakes
• The power of client feedback loops to optimize and increase conversions over time
• Why building a signature framework positions you as an expert (and helps you charge more!)

Abi is proof that specializing, positioning, and building authority can transform low-paying gigs into high-ticket clients. Tune in now to learn how to establish yourself as a funnel expert and attract clients who want to pay premium rates for your expertise!

I need your feedback! Please take the Annual Unicorns Unite Podcast Listener Survey here.

Sponsored by Shana Lynn’s Cultivate Community Manager Course. Become an in-demand Community Manager! Learn how to build and nurture thriving communities for courses, memberships, and coaching programs—without the stress or overwhelm of figuring it out alone. You’ll gain valuable skills that make you indispensable to business owners. Use my affiliate link to enroll here and save $200 with the coupon code: UNICORN

Links Mentioned in the Show:

• Watch Abi’s FREE Masterclass: Day #1 Evergreen. Go behind the scenes of an evergreen funnel you can (and should) charge upwards of $20K to create for clients.
• “The Challenger Sale” Book: https://amzn.to/40nOoew 

Connect with Abi:

• Instagram: @aptcontent
• Website: http://www.aptcontent.co.uk/ 
• LinkedIn: Abi Prendergast

Connect with Emily:

• Facebook Community: Emily’s Unicorn Digital Marketing Assistant Lab
• Instagram: @emilyreaganpr 
• Facebook: @emilyreaganpr

3 ways we can work together: 

1. Get on the waitlist for the Live Unicorn Digital Marketing Assistant School. My signature course on digital marketing implementation will give you the confidence and teach you HOW to do the work that’s in demand and highly marketable. This is the secret weapon to getting booked out. Or get started now with the Self-Study version of UDMA School here.
2. Got the skills but need help getting your digital marketing services business to take off? I’ve got an advanced tight-knit referral and networking community that can help and I would love for you to apply here for The Digital Marketer's Workgroup. You’ll get the latest updates and trainings, networking opps and job leads from online business owners who are looking to hire digital marketing implementers and assistants.
3. Looking for a fast way to get your foot in the door with up-to-date skills? Take my 2-hour Quickstart to Facebook Community Management workshop and learn how to help online business owners like course creators and membership site owners manage and engage their community

  >>> Download my Top Ten Most Requested Digital Marketing Tasks & Services

Abi Prendergast 0:00

Some clients see 50k the way you see $500 like if you want to charge high rates without the stress, work with those clients.

Emily Reagan 0:12

Emily Reagan

Hey, Abi, welcome to this show. I'm so excited to have you on this funnel series. My friends have been raving about your course and your trainings when it comes to Evergreen funnels, and I really want us to help marketing assistance, help our clients, especially with courses, sell more on automation. So before we jump into all the goodness and everything. Tell us a little bit about you, how you got started in the online space. It's always so interesting, from a online business owner angle, where we started and where we ended up,

Abi Prendergast 4:12

Emily Reagan 6:03

I love that. I'm just going to call myself out for a second. I've had several six figure launches in the one in the fall, with the economy everything going on, I was kind of going through divorce stuff. I did not make the money that I was thinking with a live launch. And it's pretty devastating to be looking at your business operating expenses, and, like, not have that covered. And so, like, I'm a walking, talking, breathing example of that, even though I do love live launching, but it was very taxing with what was going on in my personal life. So I love that we can learn from you about how to set that up, because that's something I've been dragging my feet on for many different reasons. You have this interesting business because you're also the service provider. So a lot of us will be able to relate to you as a copywriter. Quite a few of us end up falling in love with copy and going down that route. Sometimes we're just bringing copy into the work we do. We can do a mix of things as marketing service providers, marketing assistance, but you wrote something that you went from charging $6 a blog to closing 50k offers. And I know, like all my audience is going to be dying to know, and obviously it's related to what we're talking about today, but tell us $6 were you seriously charging $6 a blog?

Abi Prendergast 7:16

Yeah. I mean, when you put it like that, that's what like a is that literally, like a 10,000 increase.

Emily Reagan 8:22

So what is the key, if you were just to put it in a few listening, because I want to get your version, is from being able to go from $6 and no shame. By the way, I was $10 an hour when I started because I didn't understand the value of my work.

Abi Prendergast 8:35

Yeah. No, no shame. Like, if you can get paid to do something you enjoy doing, like you're winning, but once you start realizing the value. Yeah, charge more.

Emily Reagan 8:46

In a few sentences. How were you able to do that?

Abi Prendergast 8:48

Oh, in a few senses, how did I go from $6 to 50,000 I don't know. I don't know if I can, if I could summarize that briefly, let me think, okay, I guess the key is specializing. Okay? So figuring out that one thing that is valuable for your clients, and by that, I mean, they can create the money, right? So if, if they've got a tiny baby audience, you could be the best sales page copywriter in the world, but if they're already getting like five people look at that sales page, then it's not worth it for them to pay you 10 grand for that sales page, because they're not going to see the returns. So specializing in a thing that's really valid for my audience, finding that audience, that people can pay me those rates, and within that specializing, just really committing to to being the best at what I do. So, yeah, just constantly. It's basically, it's my life. Don't want to build any everything Funnels is my life. It's like, I read about it. I'm like, constantly training. Like everything I do is about that one thing. So I got to stop competing for what I could get, competing on price, and kind of shifted to becoming, I know maybe, perhaps, I'm still on this journey to becoming the person to go, to go for, for high converting evergreen funnels.

You're saying what I say in different words. But I think people get so stuck on like niching and specializing before they're ready. But once you have that clarity with those things you're talking about, it's always about leaning into the high value, value based services, and that's what funnels are, and that's the entire reason we're doing this series. And so you can see why I wanted that sound bite out of you.

Yeah. And I mean, like, I didn't specialize instantly. It wasn't like, I went from charging $6 to being like, right? I'm gonna specialize in just producing my rights. Or was it 10,000 exiting my rates? I try different things, and I do encourage when you're new to try different things and figure out what lights you up, because when you find the thing that you enjoy, it's like the ultimate life hack, because it doesn't feel like you're working really, you're you're getting paid to do what you enjoy. So yeah, play the field. But once you get sense of something that you're like, you know what? I like this, and I I get the sense that people are willing to pay for it, and I see other people charging a lot for it, then go all in on that. Go all in

and you were already intrigued by funnels like it came natural to you, which I think is a good indicator that, like, you locked in on that early. Is there anything that you were like, No, this ain't it?

Gosh, I kind of, I kind of enjoyed, like most big I didn't like doing SAS, so, yeah, a lot of the copywriters were saying, work in SAS. There's a lot more money there. And I tried it, and I was like, okay, yeah, no, it is easier to close, but like, dealing with super tacky products. It just it wasn't like, my brain up in, in a in an enjoyable way.

No, I'm glad you share that. Because, I mean, that's really, like, the essence of being the unicorn that I teach is, like, what's your sweet spot, and it's different. You know, you might really be into health and wellness, or podiatry, or, I don't know, like, you know, there might be something there where you can bring something you're interested in from your past, or just like your passion. So I'm curious how you became so well versed in funnels. So did you start doing this for clients? And then So walk me through that journey and where your business is now.

I subcontracted for a couple of agencies that were building funnels. Obviously, when you're subcontracting, you're you're getting paid lower rates because you're a subcontractor. It's not your client, but it's a really I do think when you're new, it's a really smart way to to get experience and just see what it's supposed to look like. So I did that for a couple of years, and I was writing sales pages, opt in pages, webinars, a lot, really enjoying it, and so that just really gave me the sense of, okay, I love funnels, running an end, and final project on my own felt intimidating at the time, like there's a lot of moving parts, but I think from doing the subcontracting, I kind of it gave me the confidence that maybe I could do it. So I did live launches for clients. And basically what happened is I worked on a live launch for a client that ended up becoming quite a good friend to be honest, really, really liked her. Really got on with her, and we were so freaking determined. We really wanted her to have this amazing live launch. She put so much into it, like she was, I think she was working full time at the time, so, like, worked herself ragged for this, yeah, and then, basically, long story short, the day of the first webinar, 3% of the people who'd signed up showed up. Oh no. And we've done we've done all the show up emails. We've done everything, all the bells on my floors, like this had never happened before. I still don't know why. The only thing I can kind of assume is maybe, like, a link didn't work or something.

I have to stop you right there. I have to stop you. We had a tech glitch for one of my launches, not this one, but it was a six figure launch where the show up sequence didn't go out right. We still had a higher show up rate, no offense, but, like, we at least couple automated ones in there, like, as, like a safety from, like, Demio or something. But I'm just kind of laughing,

well, I'm thinking maybe, maybe the Zoom link didn't work or something, or the link, like, I don't know, but anyway, so,

oh, it happens.

It happens. You know, these things happen that. And that was what it really taught me, is you can do everything right in quotation marks. There are just always things out of your control. I just didn't want to put a client through that again. I didn't want to go through that again. Like, I was really upset, because I, like, I really care about my clients and I want them to succeed, and especially, especially her, like, she was like, I said she was a friend. So it was heartbreaking. And from there, I was like, I'm not doing live launches anymore. I'm gonna go all in on evergreen, and I'm really going to suss this out, because there are challenges with Evergreen. There is a lot when you do a live launch that kind of works for you. I like the fact that it's live, that you can respond in real time, that moment when everyone's like, I just bought and all that excitement builds up on the chat, and you can't have that. You don't have. That when you're someone just watching on a laptop in their own time, I've got an evergreen so there were challenges, but I was really determined. I was like, I have to make this work, because I don't want to go through the stress of live launches. And also, I just think, like all course, creators deserve to be making those sales every day. And I think the message I was hearing in the industry was, you can't go evergreen until you successfully live launched X number of times, until you've done 30 accounts, then just all these numbers. And I was like that, that doesn't seem right, and it wasn't. I mean, my, one of my recent clients, we evergreen from day one, brand new course, hit 1.1 million within six, seven months, and that was they had an email list of, like, 8000 so more and more, like, I'm getting these case studies that approving. What I believe in that is you can go evergreen from day one. There are just some things you have to do.

Well, what's the difference in an evergreen funnel that? I mean, I know we have a lot to cover, but an evergreen funnel that works, versus one that doesn't, because you've had your hands in so many is there, are there some patterns you're seeing?

Okay, so there's a few things, I think. What one of the things that isn't working anymore, that worked in maybe, like 2020, is evergreen webinars that pretend that it's live. So where, it's like, you know where you're on the octave, and it's like, oh, choose your time. There just happens to be one starting in two minutes, like people can see through that now. And it just it starts that relationship, often a lie. And then, yeah, so, so just that whole, like, everything webinars that pretend to be live. And the main thing, which is, what I you know, is the hill that I'll die on is in everything funnel that works isn't one and done. So in sales, generally, across the board, the best salespeople know that the right sales messages are hyper relevant to what their audience is going through. So if you're talking to your audience about something that was relevant a year ago, you're not gonna you're not gonna convert to convert, convert them, because with evergreen webinar funnel, you don't have that you're not having that live conversation. So what you need to be doing is making sure you're constantly collecting feedback from your audience and then optimizing a funnel so that continues to be hyper relevant season after season.

Okay, let me stop you there. As a marketing specialist, this is something we can be doing for our clients. And like thinking of these opportunities, is there any way we should be doing that, or things that you see work? Because, I mean, sometimes I'll, don't tell the Instagram coaches, but I'll do like Instagram and you know, like two people vote. So what is your best way to collect that? Probably voc, those surveys, those facts,

through the funnel itself. So day one, very much is my proprietary final system. Then it's the name of my book, my course, and there are 10 feedback points in that funnel. So one example is Thank you Page surveys. So when someone signs up to a webinar, have a one question survey, asking the question, what was going on in your life that brought you here today, that was coined by Joanna Weave. That's usually my favorite, but you can ask other things. So if you're, if you're like, you know what? I have a really good idea of the outcomes that people want, the desired outcomes, but I'm kind of unsure, like, what their pain points are, what the challenges are. So then you might ask, what's the most painful challenge in your business today? Something like that, and then you're collecting voice of customer, and because it's a thank you page, is what we call in marketing a seducible moment. You've just given people something that they want, so they want to reciprocate. And the survey response rates on a thank you page survey tend to be like 60, 70, even 80% versus if you put it out on Instagram or email your list. You know, sometimes you're lucky to get like 10%

what tool are you using on a thank you page? Because I know marketing assistants are whipping those out all the time. We might not be writing, you know, the landing page. But What tool do you use?

Yeah, I mean, type form is great. You know, if your client doesn't want to pay for that, you can usually, if you're using like words, word space, WordPress or SquareSpace combined, or you could even use like a Google form. But yeah, your thank you page is such valuable real estate, and I think lots of people just treat them as a dead end, but actually using that opportunity, and then, I mean, it's so valuable, the response is because you're collecting voice of customer that you can then use to optimize, but you can also it gives you an idea of whether you're actually attracting the right lead. So as an example, if you had a course for brand new entrepreneurs, okay? And you're teaching them the very basics, and then on your thank you page, survey, a big chunk of saying, Oh, I just really want to get to six figures. I really want to level up this kind of language. Then you can think, okay, so I'm not targeting the new entrepreneurs here. The people that are coming in are more advanced. So I need to fix my top of funnel messaging to make sure that I'm only bringing in new entrepreneurs. And that's just one of the feedback. Voice,

yeah, oh my gosh, that's a brilliant I love that, and I haven't never had anyone teaching that angle before. So it sounds like you have a course. I'm just going to ask about it. Tell me, like, how did you develop this? And who is it a good fit, for

Sure. So my course, it started out I wanted to offer templates, and then as I was doing it, I realized I don't love templates because, like, it's again, with this whole, like, one and done idea, when you've got a template, it feels quite rigid. And then I was thinking more and more and more about this day when evergreen and this idea, they evolve over time. And I thought, what if I build templates that are actually designed to evolve over time, and I highlight the pieces of the templates that are what I call conversion hotspots? And by that I mean the place that gets like when you're looking at user recordings and you're studying UX, the places that get the most attention, for example, cross heads, like the big kind of bits and ball going down your sales page, things like that. So I highlighted all these conversion hotspots and then teach how to collect voice or customer through your evergreen funnel, so you can optimize those and this, it's great for service providers, because it's a natural retailer, right? You build the funnel they keep you on to optimize. And you can stack, stack those retainers up, which is, you know, great if you want to hit those, those high six figures as a service provider,

yeah, oh my gosh. I love that. And then clients always have a hard time with the follow through, tracking that, remembering, like, what spots they need to go update. And I know there's, like, like, templated emails that I have for launching that, like, I'm depending on my team to go in and switch some of that out and just be on it. And, like, I need them to be that next level. And, like, thinking ahead and be on top of it before I even tell them, you know. And so getting everyone thinking about that, I think, is critical. And the reason I wanted you to talk about it, I'm just gonna call it out. I have a copywriter friend. He's just, like, raving about your course, and so I am always interested in, like, okay, what are other people teaching? How is it different? And I can already see that you're tying in that customer journey with, like, feeding data into your business at the same time. And I know that just putting a survey out, I don't always get the results I need. And I, you know, I see that with my clients businesses, too. So I love this idea of 10 feedback points. Is that what we call them feedback

Yeah, it's a, it's a customer feedback loop. So you've got, you've got your funnel, and so my course, it teaches you how to build that funnel and how to build in these 10 customer feedback loops, and then what to do with the data. So you're increasing conversions over time.

Okay, that's awesome. And then you actually have something we are going to talk about today, which I don't think I've had anyone on the show doing this before, but really the importance of creating your own signature framework. So I was curious what you're going to teach us about that, and how that relates to this bigger topic of funnels.

Yeah, so day one evergreen. So it's like, okay, I want to build evergreen funnels. I'm saying that lots of people are out there building evergreen funnels. How do I compete? How do I say I'm the one you should go to so, so, okay, I'm going to create my own framework, something built on on an idea that people can get behind. So the idea was basically, yeah, you don't need to live launch a bunch of times before you can go evergreen. You can go evergreen from day one, but you need to be prepared to optimize. So I kind of tested that idea just on social, seeing if it was resonating and there was some stickability to it. I also interviewed past clients, and that really seemed to be the thing that was coming up. So I was like, Okay, this is my red thread. This is what people care about. So I'm going to build a system that supports this idea that kind of introduced this idea of the customer feedback loop to make the optimization simple. And yeah, it's basically, I mean, I have an SOP for it. So when I'm delivering for a client, I have, like, a long list of everything that needs to happen to build this. And that makes my life easier, because I'm not scatterbrained, trying to trying to figure all out. It means I can kind of deliver this premium service to my clients, which, again, like it justifies those higher price points.

I think it's important that every service provider kind of had their own method, and love how you're relating that to the funnel, because you go in with your method and there's opportunities to customize for that client, but like, yeah, there's, you do it, and so you're not just selling your time, you're selling your strategic method and how you apply that for your client work. So there's, there's a very meta angle right now as we talk about funnels and the service providers who are doing the work. But yeah, I think that makes sense, and that's what, from what I hear, enables you to charge higher rates, right? And higher packages.

Yeah, it helps you establish yourself as a thought leader. Yeah. So like, I've got my framework day one evergreen, which I do for clients. I've got a case study showing the results of day one evergreen. I have a book on Amazon, I have a course, I have a webinar, I have all these different pieces. So when people think of my name, they're like, Oh, who's having friend requests like, oh, day one Evergreen. And when you're viewed as a thought leader. People expect to pay you accordingly.

Yes, oh my gosh. Everyone, everyone who's like, wow, how do I get out of the $6 blog clients? What you're saying is you're positioning yourself as an authority. You have strategic Authority building content pieces like the book and your Instagram is talking about your method. Now you have a content strategy for your content marketing, but like, I mean, this kind of solves the problem. Like, what the heck do I talk about? You know, and as a service provider, so you'd like link that beautiful. What do clients pay to work with you? Just tell us Yes.

So to build out a day on evergreen funnel with all these pieces, it's $50,000 that includes a copy and the design as well. So I have a little baby team, and then it's $10,000 a month to optimize that funnel. So my plan for 2025 is basically to stack these up. So if I can get one a month at 50,000 and then stack up five of those optimization retainers that will be a million dollar year purely through service.

Yeah, and you also have this other part of your business, like, with a course, so there's like, two different revenue streams, probably like other things too, with affiliates and like other digital products. But I hope everyone's mind is just, like, blown right now, seeing what Abi is doing, they're all gonna, like, flock to your Instagram, sign up for your webinar. But, I mean, that's, that's genius. This is how people get out of this $6 blog post client. Like, I don't know, I don't I was going to say, like, successful, but That's so wrong. Like, we have to start somewhere. But a lot of people are talking to me. I'm like, How do I get out of that? And they're kind of starting to get whiny, Abi. And I'm like, Listen, you have to do the things to elevate you reposition yourself as an expert and kind of like, go all in on a few things. And I think that's hard to hear. I know I'm, like, taking a turn with this conversation, but

no, for anyone that's like, not watching the video, I'm just nodding my head, like, yes.

I mean, I thank you for being so, like, transparent and generous, but like, you put in the work, and you got really good and you tested it through your client work. Like, that's how you develop a framework, right?

Yeah, yeah. I'd say, if you want to start a framework, start with a problem that you're really passionate about solving. So for me, it came from that story of that client, where I was just like, live launches are too much like I'm a bit neuro spicy, you know, the anxiety and everything and so many course creators do, I think, and live launches are just not helping that. So I was really passionate about the Evergreen system and the problem that that's solved. So if you can find a problem that you're really passionate about solving, and it's resonating with people, then build your framework from that and go all in on building authority in that space. And you will eventually find, yes, it's hard work, but you'll you'll realize it was less hard work than dealing with those $6 clients.

Yes, I mean, oh my gosh, I'm so proud of you going into that with those great packages. I mean, tell us, what kind of results are you seeing with clients who have done these, you know, one day, Evergreen funnels.

Yeah. I mean, so like I was saying that I have that one client that did 1.1 million, and that was in like six months. They have another funnel I did for them, which I haven't actually checked in on but I I know that when I started working with this client, they they weren't hitting six figure months and now in in 2024 they did, I think 4 million from these funnels that I built.

Oh my god, you're a badass.

So going everything from day one, I'm currently working on a funnel for a pretty cool client, and our goal is to get to $300,000 a month, and we're confident that we can do it, because, like, what we're saying is resonating, but, yeah, I mean, like, not every course creator that I've worked with, like, it's been an instant hit, but that's the whole idea of the optimization retainer is that you can keep refining it until eventually you you hit those six figure months for them,

yeah, and I can already see, like, the assistance they need in the client delivery and fulfillment and on like the team side, that anyone listening like, yeah, it would be great to grow that fast. But then I think about like the capacity issues and like the team and the systems that need to be in place to be able to support that, that's also where a lot of you come in. Okay, I have two questions. I'm going to say them both, because I will forget.

Okay, I'll try to retain them but go on

no, and if I call it out loud, I'll remember. But I want to know the nuts and bolts to your 50k offer. But before we do that, like a big thing that you. You have talked about and harped on is like the optimization, sure, and so I'm kind of wondering, you know, what should we be looking at as a like, what are the critical elements, and where do we start? Like, if we're the marketing assistant behind the scenes and the funnel built, like, what would Abi be looking for?

Okay, okay, so Right, first question. So it's quite a big offer. I'll try not to drone on too much. So the first phase is research. And this is super important because, because we're going every room from day one, like you need to have a really good idea of who you're selling to, because you're not testing with live launches. So what I would do with that is the first thing is send out a survey to their list, trying to gather information about, like, just what, what was going on when they enrolled, trying to ask questions, not about the course. So I think when course creators send out surveys to the list, and fair play to them, like I probably would be like this too, if they want to ask, What did you like best? And kind of about all of the features in the course, but you want to avoid that and just really focus on the customer and what, what's going on in their life, the challenges, the conversation, which that they're having with themselves. And then you know, a couple of hyper relevant questions, for example, like, if you're doing a course on copywriting, like you're going to want to ask about chat, GPT and like, the latest update you're going to want, need that information you can't just brush over it. Like, which, if you have an evergreen funnel that's been running for two years, then it's not going to contain that if you haven't optimized for it. So I do the survey, and then I go through the survey, and I organize into buckets to find out, okay, what are the key desires, what are the key challenges? And then that will inform the questions that I ask in my customer interview. So I'll choose maybe five to seven people that gave interesting answers in the survey, and then I will interview them. I will then fill in any gaps with social mining. So I'll go into the Facebook groups. What are they bitching about? Like, what books have they bought on Amazon that they're complaining about because they didn't get enough information. What courses are they taking, what the testimonials, what language they use? So all of this has happened in the research, competitor analysis, and then I will present this to the client. So I will, I'll basically be like, Okay, these are the top pains. These are to the top desires. These are the hesitations that almost stopped them and buying a program, this is what got it over them. And because of that, this is the big idea for the funnel. So I think this is something that a lot of funnel builders miss out is having this one big idea that combines everything from the opt in to the checkout page, one idea that runs through. So I'll pitch that and then make sure the client's fully on board with the strategy, so there's no surprises when I write copy built around one big idea. Okay, so all of that happens. Then I go through, I will write everything from the ads, opt in, the webinar, the emails, the sales page, and then re engagement email, so I reinvisible into funnel, give that to the client, make the Edit, and then I'll hand it off to my designer, and then my email automation expert, who will then go in and plug all of that in, and then, yeah, that's basically building those customer feedback touch points. So that's kind of the end to end of the of the standardized offer.

Yeah, and I mean, I can see why it's 50k like the research part alone, like you doing the interviews, like the social mining. I know chat GPT can speed some things up, but is this was ultimately creating your messaging buckets that you teach.

Yeah. I mean, chat GPT, if you're if you, like, have three hours for a sales page. Use it to do your research. But the thing is, it doesn't prioritize voice of customer. It summarizes. And if you want to create those sales pages that copy that makes people think, oh my God, you've just read my freaking mind, like you need to be using the language your customer uses, and you won't get that through chat. GPT, so that voice of customer research continues to be really valuable, even with AI offering potential shortcuts.

Yeah, no, that's good to note the summary. I'm working with a copywriter right now with one of my cmo clients, and she's, I don't know why I'm telling you this, but like, I collected his course calls and ran it through chatgpt Because I wanted the summary. But then she's like, this isn't clean data. I was like, I know. Like, this is not clean data, and you have to, like, think about that when you are starting with the messaging. So like, I gave her access to this private Facebook group, which is like gold, like we snuck in there under a different profile. If they knew we were marketers, we would get kicked out. And like, we're just, like, harvesting like crazy. But we couldn't just rely on the Course calls either, because the client was giving them, and he didn't give him great he was doing what you said earlier, like leading into some of the questions, and not just like collecting, like, where they are, what they're experiencing, you know what I mean. And so it wasn't clean data, like on all kinds of

and That's why we do a mix, right? We don't just rely on one source. We Yeah, we look at all of it, yeah.

It's also interesting to me, but it's also very, like, tiring, because I'm like, it could just be non stop, like, non stop, and then you have to come back and refresh it, which I've learned in my own business, is, like, things change. Economy changes. Like, when I first started, no one really knew what a virtual assistant was, I kind of point and went all into this, like, marketing assistant. And now it's becoming more relevant and saturated, and now there's like, MRR girls out there, like, really devaluing digital marketing. No offense to anyone listening, if you have an MRR course, but you know it's like, so I'm, like, constantly having to stay on top of like, even my my job,

that's where the automated customer feedback loop would help, because you've got the thank you very responses and emails going out to collect this so you don't have to constantly go and do it yourself. You can and you just, you have a VA organize it for you. You don't even need to do it yourself necessarily. I mean, people say to me, like, my poster said, Oh, why didn't you hire a research specialist? Because it would save all that time. But I'm like, Ah, I don't know. I kind of love it though. Like, I do. I do love looking through it. I feel like a detective. And it's, it's how I come up with my ideas, which is, again, like, if you're outsourcing, that's chat. GBT, like, it's not going to be kind of stimulating those ideas in the same way,

yeah, it's probably just like, pinging your brain. And if you're going to be the one writing it, like, I can see why you would want to keep that in in your scope. Okay, so my second question was about, you know, what are the critical elements that we would test first for optimization? So, like, now you built, oh, yeah, we can see why it's a 50k product. You put a lot of like, time and energy and research in here, really nailing it in and then what?

my philosophy is basically the day I never been final. The goal of this customer feedback loop is to gain a deep understanding of your audience. The better you know who you're selling to, the less it feels like selling. You're connecting. You're converting. So when I'm running an AB test on a subject line, for example, I'm not thinking, Okay, let's just try and see what has the highest open rate. And then we're going to run the one with the highest open rate. That's not the goal at all. The goal is to gain that understanding. So what I would usually do is I go through the research. I can give you an example, actually, for a client I'm building a funnel for. So we did all the research, and confidence is one of the main outcomes that they want. However, what's really interesting is there's two very different points of view here. So around half of them want more confidence because they want to be a thought leader. They're super excited. They want to go that, you know, they want to go the whole way. They want more confidence so they can become like this opportunity magnet, whereas the other half, they want more confidence because they have imposter syndrome, and they feel like they suck, and they feel like what they're doing is garbage. And those are such different points of view. If you talk to the first audience and tell them they've got imposter syndrome, they're going to be like, Well, no, I don't that doesn't resonate. And then you've lost them. If you talk to the second audience about how they can become like these seven figure thought leaders, they're going to be like, No, I can't. And then you've lost them. So the first test is like, Okay, right? Which is the better audience here, which is the one that's converting? So when running an AB test on the opt in page. I'm testing these two messages against each other. Which one opt in page gets more leads, which one gets more leads that actually convert into customers. When I'm doing the subject line test, which gets more open, so which? Which is messages connecting more and I'm building these all in. So rather than, yeah, testing for metrics, for kind of KPIs you're you're testing which message resonates most with your audience. And then once you've got an idea, once it's like, okay, this audience is more motivated by escaping imposter syndrome, then you optimize the entire funnel for that message.

Oh, my God. I've never heard anyone taught that, but it seems so like obvious now that you have said that, and I could see it applying to me like somebody who has like, a mixed audience of, let's say, stay at home moms getting back into work, or professional women making a career transition. I like, have a hard time going in with which one and they both have, like, like, way different pain points.

Yeah, because the more specific you can be, the more it's going to resonate. But if you're specific and it's the wrong message, then you lose them. So, I mean, another solution could be to segment for you. But I mean, sometimes, like, it's not the right time to be doing that, and you're trying to figure out who the one audience is for this one offer. And yeah, that's, that's what we're testing for,

yeah, and that was probably a bad example. But like, there can be, like, different, no, it's good pain points within,

yeah, yeah, no, yeah, totally.

Have you ever had a funnel not work?

Of course, everybody's had a funnel that doesn't work. I mean, I just told you I got like, 3% sharp rates. You know, anyone that's showing up and it's like, I'm a freelancer, I'm making all this money, and I just get amazing results all the time, like, oh. Well, I mean, I just love to offer maybe just this little bit of coaching. Clients aren't necessarily paying you 50k to get results. Like, I mean, obviously, yeah, okay. Like, they want them. They want that money. But like, by you offering and by they want someone that they can trust, someone that cares, that offers a premium service, you know, that's thought this through and is willing to with the optimized a container, is willing to keep trying. But sometimes it's not going to work. Sometimes it's the wrong offer. Sometimes, like, they just can't suss out ads, like the audiences in there, or ads are too expensive for the audience. There's always things like, you don't need to have every single answer ever and like, 100% guarantee it's gonna work. So no guarantees in marketing. But that doesn't mean that you can't still charge these high rates. So yeah, no, I've failed.

How do you handle that, though? Because, you know, we're all the type who really care and treat our clients businesses as our own. How do you handle that when you have charged a high ticket and you didn't quite get the results you wanted? Like, I don't know. I'm struggling with how to ask this question, because I know a lot of us are like, Yeah, feel like we have to give more and more and do yeah and make it work. Like, what do you do?

Okay, okay, so I haven't had a failure at this price point yet. So my last, my last, like, failure was, it was like a 15k funnel, yeah, I mean, okay, if you want to charge really high ticket rates, and you're neuro spicy, like me, you get a bit anxious, like, about , then make sure you're working with clients who are used to, like, I mean, this client that's just paid me 50k I was talking to her, she's she spent 50k on funnels in the past. It just never got set up because they got busy, they got distracted. Like, 50k is not a lot of money for those clients. It's a lot of money for me, it's a lot of money for you, it is don't project your like money mindset, your scarcity mindset, onto your clients like they know, if you want to charge 50k you're going to be working with seven figure course creators. Okay, you're probably not going to sell that someone who's just made 100k with their course. If they're a seven figure course creator, they understand that there are risks. They've probably wasted money for they probably spent more than 50k on something, whether the Freelancer didn't give a damn. She said, I couldn't remember if you're allowed to swear on this one.

No, you are. And I'll say everyone is complaining to me about those giant funnel

so, you know, like, and that's not to say like, oh, the 50k is nothing. Like, don't take it seriously. Like, take it seriously. But I think one thing that's really helped me in the last year is severing this link I had in my mind between more money and more stress, more pressure. I thought, the more I charge, the more stress, the more pressure. And it was, it was doing me like to put it lightly, I realized, like some clients see 50k the way you see $500 like, yeah, if you want to charge high rates without the stress with those clients,

no, I love that. It's so hard to not take it personal. It's like we care. But you know that happens in the course creator space, like, I can't take everyone's, like, inability to complete the course and implement it personal. You know, no, who won't, or something, you know, for whatever reason. I mean, there's things I can do to make the course better, but statistically, there will always be a few who do nothing with it, and I can't make it my problem when I've tried, and that's really hard.

It is hard, but, I mean, I'm doing a lot of mindset work. Like, a lot of mindset work has gone into being able to even charge 50k like, if you a year ago, I'd have been like, I cannot like, what? That's a joke. But here we are. If it comes your new rate, it comes your new bottom, you raise your rates, it comes your new bottom. Like,

and me just listening to you right now, and me understanding the value of the work and what the funnel could make I'm sitting over here like, yeah, I get it. Like, I would easily pay you 50k to be able to build the whole thing for me and do all the research, because, like, I know and understand the value. And so I just want everyone to know there are clients out there who do get it, and it might not, yeah, person who just signed up for a Digital Course Academy. No offense to Amy, we love those leads, but sometimes they're just not there yet. And so that's okay. So what tips do you have for getting up to that offer rate? Because you said, you know, you were at 15k before, like, how can we work up to that level?

Yeah, I mean, you've got to you've got to specialize. You've got to create a framework, the two things that we said, and then it's really authority, authority building. So last year, I published a book. Through that book, I got podcast opportunities. Through that podcast opportunities, I got bigger ones, like I was on like Pat Flynn's podcast, the founder of entrepreneur, the editor in chief, and entrepreneur, reached out to me, like, just opportunities that I previously wouldn't have gotten because people didn't know about me. And through those opportunities Clients come to me that can afford those high rates. Like, people come to me, I don't cold pitch anymore. They come to me,

I love that so much.

Yeah, specialized framework, authority, those two things. And then, like, I think you probably should be in a mastermind as well, if you want to get like I am and I I constantly have, like, I recurrently will have self doubts and things like that, and I need people around me to be like, No, so yeah, that would probably be the fourth tip. Make sure you've got a community of people that can, like, remind you that you deserve to charge 50k you can do it, yeah.

Well, I'm just going to plug my Digital Marketers Workgroup right now, because that's what I'm trying to do, and that's what we have. We have a community of some of the freelancers who are doing the work behind the scenes and working their way up to higher prior rates and projects. Okay, let's wrap it up here. I have two questions relating to the marketing specialist who wants to niche into funnels. Are there any skills or areas that we should develop so we could be better at funnels? I know we don't start off doing the whole thing and all of the strategy. But if there was a couple areas that could get us to the next level, what would they be?

You should take my course and buy that.

Oh, I mean, fair, fair,

yeah, no, if you, if you want, if it's evergreen that you want to do, then you, yeah, optimization is, is a really good thing for you to learn, because, like, the business model just makes sense having those optimization retainers. And, yeah, my book, it's like, 9.99, and it will, it will teach you, like, the nuts and bolts of that just go into like, curiosity mode, really, like, just always be looking for strategies, and don't take them, like, too literally. You know, just because someone made like, 200k with this one strategy. It doesn't mean like, it's going to be repeatable in every business, but you could take that and there could be something in there that like, inspires you for another strategy. So yeah, be curious. Just go out and absorb

Love that because you're we're already in different businesses and helping different clients, like, things will start to click in ways, and like, learning to trust yourself in those moments and, like, speak up and share the idea

and then test, like, is that it? You know, you can't lose. Like, every test gives you knowledge of your audience. If you take that approach that you're trying to understand who you're selling to, a test can't lose because you've learned something.

So can we take your course as a service provider, like, I know some courses, creators aren't cool with that, but can we take it and implement it?

Yes, I love it when freelancers take my course, because I just really want freelancers to be charging good money, making good money. And I think 50k I mean, sounds like a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if my rates got to like, 100k in the next couple of years, like, you know, it's such a valuable thing. So yeah, of course. Like, take my course. And I like it when people like reference that they're using my system, but no own it. Make it your own.

Well, you're on the right podcast to encourage freelancers. So I might not be Pat Flynn, but thank you. Last question, what's one mindset shift that you believe a marketing specialist needs to make to excel in a funnel building? We covered a lot

Yeah. I mean, I think the things I've said about money, like not projecting your money situation onto your client, is a big one. And I recently, I'll tell you, this comes from a book I read really recently, The Challenger Sale. And it basically says there are different types of sellers, and people think the relationship builder sells the best. And I'm such a relationship builder. And I always thought like and I was always really happy with that, but actually it's the Challenger, the Challenger. So if your client, if you're pitching a client, and they're sitting there agreeing with everything you said, that's not actually how you sell at high prices, you want them to say, Hmm, didn't think of it like that before. I had didn't think of it like that before. So if you want to sell more, if you want to sell at high rates, read The Challenger Sale and yeah, be prepared to challenge, to pick fights, to go against the grain, and that's when people really start seeing you as an expert and the consultant that they need on their team.

Oh, I like that, and it's without giving the strategy away, but it's just challenging them. So I'll share that book in the show notes. Thank you for that. I haven't read that one, and I love it. Always. Love a good book.

Yeah, I think it's as well. I imagine your audience, just from what you said, like, kind of like me, where it's like, you end up, when you're doing a discovery call, you end up doing a lot of coaching, because that's your instincts. You want to help them, and that's lovely. But I'll tell you what, now that I'm charging 50k I can do work for free. Like, so if you're like, Oh, but I just really want to help these small business owners charge 50k to, like, the rich business owners, and then help the small business owners for free, rather than, like, charging smaller, lower rates so they can afford you. Like, yeah, that'd be my final way of advice

so I have a couple unicorns who are collaborating. In the work group to help this food pantry non profit. And so that's really fun to, like, think about it like that. When you're

You get to be more generous. You get to be more generous with your time, because you're not like, oh, like, I've just given away an hour, but I've still got this whole entire big thing to do, and I'm only getting paid like a grand to build it all.

Hello lawyers and their pro bono work like that's how they're able to do it. I lied, though. One more question, what is your favorite question to ask on your intake form, when people are, you know, requesting to work with you?

Oh, when people are requesting to work with me? Yeah, is the what's going on in your business that bought you here today, and what's your budget?

Yeah, all right. Abi, this was so much fun. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, especially when it came to the insights and building the funnel. Where's the best place to connect with you, and also, where can we find your webinar to learn more about your one day Evergreen?

Abi Prendergas

yeah. So, I mean, I'm very active on LinkedIn. Abi Prendergast, I'm really trying to do Instagram better. So if you could give me, like, a follow over there, it'd be really appreciated. Um, is at apt content. And, yeah, come say hi. Like, I love connecting with other freelancers. Um, you can find the link to join my webinar, like, on my Instagram, on my website, and then through there, you can access my course at a discount because it is an evergreen webinar funnel.

Emily Reagan

Okay, awesome. Thank you so much for coming here. I had so much fun, so we'll see ya.

Yeah, thank you. It's been great.

Okay, there's some really good aha moments in Abi's interview. I was just loving the idea of the high authority content that you need to build to put yourself in this situation. But there's also some things she talked about when it comes to specializing so you can unlock those premium rates, the fact that the secret to a high ticket offer is your client understanding the value and that comes to you, to you selling and selling, why you're different, what's your your own unique selling proposition, and what your signature framework is so, so crucial, but also there's a lot of work there, as Abi talked about, with funnels requiring constant optimization, a marketing savvy assistant to be collecting the VOC, putting it in the right emails, the right headlines. It's never just a set it and forget it. All right. If you enjoyed this podcast, please give Abi and I a shout out on Instagram. I'll put links to everything she provided in the show notes, including her one day evergreen webinar. I think you're going to want to watch that and at least see a funnel in progress. And then we're going to dive more in to the funnel series. We're going to be talking about webinars, many chat funnels, long term email strategies, it is going to keep going. Longest funnel series ever, longest podcast series ever, yeah, yeah. And for good reason, for good reason, so I'll see you in the next episode. In the meantime, don't forget to leave us a five star review and share on social. I appreciate you.

If you want to start earning income as a digital marketing service provider or digital marketing assistant, you only need your laptop. You can tap into what online business owners really need help with by downloading my top 10 most requested tasks. These are the services I did for years for my clients behind the scenes. You can take this download and apply it to your own business and start by offering these very same services if you want to niche down in digital marketing, this is your guide. Just use the link in the show notes, or go to Emily Reagan pr.com/services

From being a $6 like that sounded dumb, but I'm gonna leave it in. I never know how to end podcasts. I'm so awkward.