We had a great conversation with The Gazette's Des Moines Bureau Chief, journalist Erin Murphy.

Recently Erin talked with a state economist in his piece on how difficult it will be to recoup Iowa's worker losses.

Some highlights:

• Slow population growth for nearly a decade has led to more job openings than people to fill them in Iowa.
• 'Brain drain' of young Iowans who benefit from Iowa's schools and universities are leaving at higher rates for other states.
• Retiring and aging workforce leave many skilled positions hard to fill with the sheer volume of them.
• Immigrants have continued to be the main source of new population in Iowa and many legislatures will be focused on how to reform legal pathways for immigrants who wish to come to Iowa to fill the many jobs we have to fill.
• Many state-funded upskilling and re-skilling programs are being strengthened by additional funding.

You can read Erin's story here on thegazette.com

So what does this news mean for job seekers? More competition among employers for their skills. Additionally, job seekers who are currently struggling to find jobs or a better career can benefit from multiple apprenticeship or upskilling programs available near them at local community colleges or workforce training centers.

Want to hear more from Erin Murphy? You can sign up for his weekday newsletter On Iowa Politics or listen in to his On Iowa Politics podcast. Once the legislative session in Iowa starts back up in Iowa, Erin will be covering all the happenings at the statehouse.

Welcome, everyone to Careers and coffee. I have

with me today a very special guest We're joined by Des Moines

Bureau Chief Erin Murphy. Erin, welcome to the Careers and

Coffee podcast - your first time here.

Yeah, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Awesome. So, um, we have a lot of great journalists

at The Gazette. And I think it's important that we have

conversations with them about what's going on with Iowa

Workforce. And Erin, you wrote a story recently, where you talked

with the state economist, and I was hoping you can maybe give us

a little bit of information about that story, it was all

about how Iowa's worker losses will be difficult for us to

recoup. So can you talk to us a little bit about that?

Yeah, absolutely. It was interesting, because I

think a lot of us have heard and especially if you follow the

news regularly, you've probably heard about the workforce issues

that are out there. And it's not that part of it is not unique to

Iowa, a lot of states are dealing with that still coming

out of the pandemic, that a lot of workers just didn't return to

the workforce. And so a lot of businesses are having difficulty

hiring and that worker shortage is is very prevalent. What was

unique and interesting, in this discussion that I had with Peter

Orazem who is a professor of labor economy, economics at the

Iowa State University, was how he talked about what may be

somewhat unique to Iowa, could be the difficulty that our state

will have recouping those workers making up for those

losses. And, and some of the reasons why that is so so while

the problem is, like I said out there for every state, Iowa may

have a harder time rebounding from from this than other

states.

Does that kind of tied to our slow or non existent

population growth? Is that kind of what he's referring to?

Yeah, that is a big part of it. That has been an

issue in Iowa for boy more than a decade. Now. The, like you

said, I think you put it well, slow to border line non existent

population growth here in Iowa, we've lagged far behind the rest

of the country in population growth. So that's a big part of

it. Another part of it, and it kind of links to another sort of

story that I wrote that's kind of tangentially related to this

a little while back, is the issue with Iowa, so called brain

drain, which is young people who are raised and educated here,

but then leave the state to join the workforce elsewhere and

don't come back. So I was a little older than the average

population. So we have more people retiring, and fewer young

people staying in the state and replacing those workers who

either retire or leave or leave the state for other reasons. And

we don't, as we just talked about, our population isn't

growing, we don't attract a lot of people to the state, either

compared to other states. So all that kind of adds up, and is

what this economics expert was talking about what may make it

difficult for our state to recoup these worker losses.

So that's really interesting, because there are

still quite a few job seekers in the state of Iowa that are

looking for work that are kind of you know, that would say that

they are struggling to find work, even though we have like

these kind of lots of positions that are either open now or soon

to be open because of retiring workforce. I don't know if you

have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I don't have the the magical

answer other than I know that part of what you're describing

there is a need to kind of match the skill levels that are

required for the jobs that are open versus the skill levels

that are in, possessed by our people who are working looking

for jobs right now. And maybe that's I know, that,

traditionally is an issue. And that's why there are state

programs designed to address that try to help people get the,

you know, skills for certain kinds of jobs, whether it's

trades or whatever it may be. So that may be where some of that

disconnect, is that the yes, there are some people who are

looking for work too. And maybe they just don't have the right

skills that match the jobs that are open right now. You will

hear people say that some of the jobs that are open aren't the

best paying jobs and that's part of the problem although you're

starting to see that change now too. I mean, if you look all the

way to the you know, the basic level where like, you know, fed

fast food places are starting to pay well above the minimum wage

now you know, not uncommon at all to see, you know, the

McDonald's and Burger Kings of the world's hiring for $15 an

hour in Des Moines anyways, I can say so. So yeah, so that so

that disconnect is still there to your right. And and yeah, I

didn't talk with Peter about that specifically. But I do know

that that that skills issue is something that the state has

tried to tackle.

So you talked about some programs at the state

level. And since you're covering kind of state, are you seeing

more conversations about those are just more news about the

different programs? It sounds like there's a lot of money

headed to community colleges to help people upskill. But, yep,

the reality is that it's always a lag between the job seekers

knowledge of those programs and their ability to get into those

programs.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point, I do hear a lot

of conversation around those kinds of programs. And I'm

guessing I will again, in a couple of weeks here, the

legislative session for 2023 will begin, I would be shocked

if this is not a topic of conversation, at least to some

degree, about what they can do to not only continue to sport

those existing programs, but maybe develop new ones or or add

more resources to them. So more funding to them, so more people

can take advantage. It will be interesting to see how that

discussion plays out right now. But I do expect to hear it. I do

expect state lawmakers to try to address this and in any ways

that they can.

Yeah, I think there's even this I don't think

it was your story. But it was Iowa City labor, apprenticeship

that they had going with like a smaller group down there, where

they were able to get all kinds of workers into an

apprenticeship program. And it was just a very grassroots

level. And I think they use like pandemic funds or ARPA funding

or infrastructure funding for that.

One of one of those. And yeah, and that's a

great point, too. That's, I mean, there's so much of that

funding available right now, I don't know that the number the

percentage off the top of my head right now. But I know this

state of Iowa still hasn't gone through all of its federal

relief funding, and it's been putting money into programs

already. And I'm sure we'll see more. So there's opportunities

right now, without a doubt to to to bolster those kinds of

programs. So that's why I say it'd be very interesting to see

what legislators prioritize and what they've tried to address

this session.

Yeah, that will be interesting. Um, do you feel

like there's just kind of, I don't know if you are covering

this, but like, are there certain industries that you're

seeing that are going to struggle more from this brain

drain or, or even this the retire? You know, there are some

businesses in Cedar Rapids even that have a large group of aging

workforce that may all retire relatively within the same

timeframe?

Yeah, that's a really good question. I haven't

heard about any specific industry that's more worried

about that, then than others. I think it's fairly widespread.

It'll be interesting to see manufacturing, maybe, if that

could be an industry that's a little more on edge over this

than the others. But my sense is, and I think it's an

interesting question, it'd be a good one to put to some more

folks, like I've been talking to, but the is that it's it's a

pretty widespread issue. And there's no one industry that's

more concerned than the others. I think it's just, it's, it's

impacting everybody.

Do you think it's getting in the way of us, you

know, capturing new businesses to move to Iowa because we don't

have enough workforce? Or?

I, it's hard to you know, I can't point to specific

examples. But it's hard to imagine that it's not having

that kind of impact, and, and all of those things that we

discussed. So if if there's a worker shortage, it kind of

creates its own vicious cycle, right? If there's a worker

shortage, then maybe businesses are more hesitant to come in.

And then if businesses are hesitant to come in, then

there's less reason for those young people that we educate to

stay here, you know, because the opportunities are somewhere else

instead. So and that's why what Professor Orazem had to say

about this was all interested. Interesting, because it's it's

tough to see what's the you know, the method or the approach

that kind of breaks that cycle and kind of gets I we're headed

in the right direction. One of the things that and I can't

remember if he said this, specifically, or I know at

talking to other business groups, I hear this a lot and I

apologize, I'm scanning My story he did say this specifically.

And I have, but I also have heard this from other business

groups is immigration. And that's one way that I will can

welcome new people and, and people who could potentially

jump in and join and help bolster the state's workforce,

you hear that a lot about the need for, you know, a good

strong immigration program at the federal level, and then

whatever reforms that need to come to make it so people who

want to come here, legally can't come here and, and find a home

and, and become members of the community, including members of

the workforce. And that's one thing I hear about a lot from

Iowa, economic experts and business leaders.

So that's interesting. Do you kind of

wonder if some of these things will kind of solved themselves

over time, just because we know that there's a decline in

students that Iowa high school is pursuing college degrees, so

they're gonna filter more into these community colleges, which

potentially could fill them into these, you know, jobs that no

one grows up thinking, I'm going to be this when I grew up,

because the job either didn't exist, or it's just really hard

to describe, you know, we were talking with a hospital and

like, how do you describe the role that is the central

sterilization role? You know, like, what is that worker

called? And, and, you know, what goes into that job? Is that a

rewarding career? You know, it's sometimes it's hard for these

businesses to just kind of explain the different jobs that

they have done, because they've evolved over the years and

changed and they require, you know, definitely skills and

expertise, but not necessarily a four year degree, you know,

yeah, and I think that's exactly the point. And

you are seeing a definite shift in that conversation about the I

feel like for a while there, and certainly, while I was growing

up it, the only goal was to go to a four year college, right, a

four year degree. And I think you are definitely seeing that

conversation shift in recent years. And it feels like it just

keeps growing and growing. And this whole situation may make

that conversation grow even more, because, because to the

point you're making there, there are a lot of jobs out there, and

not just, you know, jobs in the most basic sense, you know, good

careers, good paying jobs, that can be good careers that you can

be trained for, with a two year degree at a community college or

other kinds of programs. So you're definitely starting to

see that conversation shift. And just circle back to your to your

question. Yeah, I think this could potentially right size

itself. Eventually, you know, as as that conversation continues,

and more people kind of look to these kinds of careers, and that

kind of training, you know, right from the start, rather

than, you know, trying a different path and realizing

later in life that maybe a different route was better. I

think you'll see more young people starting on that path,

right from the get go. And maybe that helps us kind of, you know,

like I said, kind of right size this more naturally, huh.

Well, this has been a great conversation. Erin, I

think if we have any advice for job seekers, I think the picture

for Iowa is a little bit darker, you know, just not having this

population grow. But for the job seekers in Iowa, the picture is

a little bit brighter, because whether or not we go through a

recession next year, where there's a sluggish growth, there

will still be lots of employers competing for local talent to

fill positions. So the the opportunity plus the

opportunities we talked about with reskilling are growing in

iOS. So there is a lot of opportunity, if you're not in a

role that you like to reskill if you're having trouble finding a

role, you know, upskilling and, you know, taking advantage of

some of these programs. So we'll put all that in the show notes

along with Aaron's story. And thanks so much for joining us

for our first journalists careers and copy. I'm pretty

excited about this.

Yeah, thanks so much. And it's a great topic.

It's a great discussion. It's a huge issue. And this story that

we you talked about, and then I referenced the one earlier, it

was some of the stories I've gotten the most reader feedback

on which is kind of surprised to me for all the things that I

cover. So it's obviously an issue that a lot of people are

tuned into too. So I think any conversation we can have about

it's a good thing.

That's awesome. All right. Well, thanks. You have a

great day.

Thank you, Liz, you too.