Artwork for podcast Looking Forward Our Way
It's A Different World - Diversity & Inclusion in Today's Workplace, Pt. 2
Episode 22 • 7th June 2021 • Looking Forward Our Way • Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson
00:00:00 00:56:29

Share Episode

Shownotes

Over the past year, our world took many different, critical paths. Today, we want to discuss diversity and inclusion in our workplace, how the issues have developed over time and the opportunities to pursue for our future.

Our guests are Courtnee Carrigan, CEO & Executive Trainer, Raising the Bar Performance Group, and Tim Harman, Senior Consultant, Workforce Innovation Center.

In part 1 of our two part series, we cover the historical aspects of diversity and inclusion. In this episode, we assess where we are right now regarding the workplace, and the opportunities created for everyone.

The future has great promise for change and inclusion. Job seekers need to participate in this change. Conduct a self-assessment to learn what relevant skills you have. And align your expectations to the job market.

  • What transient skills do you have?
  • How are your communication, writing, organizational, and leadership skills?
  • Do you have subject matter expertise?

The burden is on the job seeker to make your skill set relevant. That could mean taking advantage of training and certification that is available in your area.

Additionally, job applicants need to realistically face the market and the value of jobs. This includes your salary expectations and market reality. There are many experienced workers who expect their next employer to pay for their historical accomplishments. This may not be the case.

Life long learning can contribute to your increased job market value. This helps ensure your skills meet today's demands in the workplace. Participate in webinars and meet-up groups.

Many employers claim job applicants "aren't qualified." There seems to be a huge disconnect in the recruiting endeavor. Opportunities exist for employers to invest further in the candidate experience to learn if there is a fit. Employers have automated the applicant process, which can be helpful. However, without a well-informed person reviewing the candidates, employers are potentially missing out.

Here are recommendations for employers to consider.

  • Review your job postings to ensure they aren't ruling people out because "requirements" are out of date.
  • Evaluate their application process for those "screen out" steps that may have unintended consequences.
  • Understand the laws vs. your internal practices. This means understanding the nuances between part-time and 1099, full-time and remote working or flexible scheduling options.

And finally, both job-seekers and employers need to remember. The federal Age Discrimination Action (ADEA) protects job-seekers and employees over the age of 40. Once a person hits 40, you may need protection against being discriminated for your age.

We would love to hear from you.

Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.

Find us on Facebook.

Please review our podcast on Google!

And of course everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.

Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle270Media Podcast Consultants.

Transcripts

Speaker1:

:

We are looking forward our way, we're in Studio C in the 511 Studios.

Speaker1:

:

This is Brett. With me is Carol, as always.

Speaker2:

:

Hi, Brett. How's it going?

Speaker1:

:

Ok. Hey, we didn't love experiments.

Speaker1:

:

If you would, give us a review insight on what you think about the podcast, what you

Speaker1:

:

think about this episode coming up, or past episodes.

Speaker1:

:

The link to Google My business is in the show notes.

Speaker1:

:

So just click on that.

Speaker1:

:

You'll have to sign into your Google account, whether it's Gmail or whatever the case

Speaker1:

:

might be, could be your YouTube account, whatever.

Speaker1:

:

But sign in and give us a review, give us some insight in regards to what you think of

Speaker1:

:

the podcast, what you'd like us to cover with this podcast to anything.

Speaker1:

:

It would be great some some insights and reviews about what we're doing with the podcast.

Speaker1:

:

But we're in part number two of this great episode about diversity.

Speaker1:

:

And now we're going to be diving into a little bit more about the workplace in this one.

Speaker2:

:

Exactly. We've got wonderful guests with us today.

Speaker2:

:

And over the past year, our world has really turned around and we have many more

Speaker2:

:

questions about diversity and inclusion.

Speaker2:

:

And we wanted to make sure that the podcast did a good job of dealing with this.

Speaker2:

:

It's not an easy issue.

Speaker2:

:

So we're actually into the second podcast.

Speaker2:

:

We've had some great discussion.

Speaker2:

:

We're going to continue it today with our wonderful guests, Courtney Carrigan, who is the

Speaker2:

:

CEO and executive trainer of Raising the Bar Performance Group, and Tim Harman, senior

Speaker2:

:

consultant Workforce Innovation Center and my former OSU colleague.

Speaker2:

:

Thank you for joining us again today.

Speaker1:

:

Yeah, exactly. For having us.

Speaker1:

:

We encourage you to go back to part one, obviously, to listen.

Speaker1:

:

But I do want you to to be have the opportunity to talk a little bit about yourselves, a

Speaker1:

:

little bit of a background, because we might have a listeners that just catch part two

Speaker1:

:

about this because of what we're going to talk about today.

Speaker1:

:

So, Courtney, could you give a little background of who you are, where you come from, and

Speaker1:

:

then we'll let Tim jump in?

Speaker3:

:

Sure. Hi, everyone.

Speaker3:

:

I'm Courtney Kerrigan and I am a Ohio child.

Speaker3:

:

I was born in Toledo, Ohio.

Speaker3:

:

I love Toledo because we are a city that is we have grit, we are scrappy.

Speaker3:

:

And and from there, I ended up moving to Cincinnati, where I went to undergraduate and

Speaker3:

:

graduate school at the University of Cincinnati for the Bengals fan out there who say

Speaker3:

:

yes. And then in 2005, I took a job at the YWCA Columbus, where I've now lived in central

Speaker3:

:

Ohio for the last 15 years.

Speaker3:

:

And it's an amazing atmosphere.

Speaker3:

:

And so I am a Midwestern girl, born and raised with Southern charm, and I'm just happy to

Speaker3:

:

be here.

Speaker2:

:

And we're really glad you're in central Ohio now, too.

Speaker2:

:

As a Columbus native, we welcome everybody to central Ohio from the outskirts.

Speaker3:

:

Hey, it's a city of possibilities in central Ohio.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah, I think we all end up here at some point in our our our Ohio lives.

Speaker4:

:

Right. I came from Bucyrus, Ohio.

Speaker4:

:

And, you know, in our community, diversity was whether you planted corner, you planted

Speaker4:

:

beans that season.

Speaker4:

:

So also had the opportunity to live in Toledo, Ohio, while I did my undergraduate work.

Speaker4:

:

And then I came here to central Ohio and have spent my last two decades focused on human

Speaker4:

:

resources, diversity and inclusion and a lot of work in recruiting and talent attraction.

Speaker4:

:

So I'm glad to be here.

Speaker2:

:

Thank you very much, Jacqui.

Speaker1:

:

Well, we looked at the historical issues of diversity and inclusion in our past episode.

Speaker1:

:

Part one. Now we want to dive into.

Speaker1:

:

The workplace, and it seems that we need to assess where we are right now regarding the

Speaker1:

:

workplace and the opportunities created for everyone.

Speaker1:

:

Can we dive a little bit deeper into that, Tim?

Speaker4:

:

Absolutely. And we need to start with understanding.

Speaker4:

:

Workplace has shifted significantly over the last several decades.

Speaker4:

:

And so when we began talking about words like diversity and inclusion, often the context

Speaker4:

:

was around affirmative action or government mandates that might have come through.

Speaker4:

:

That said, well, diversity means we have to have certain numbers and certain targets that

Speaker4:

:

show up in our workplace.

Speaker4:

:

But today, diversity in the workplace means that we're being inclusive of everyone to

Speaker4:

:

show up as they are.

Speaker4:

:

We're not forcing them to fit into a construct or a false pretense that says, well, we

Speaker4:

:

need X, many male and X many female or X many of whatever their race or ethnicity might

Speaker4:

:

be labeled against them.

Speaker4:

:

And so today in our work environment, it's not that, oh, well, you hit 60.

Speaker4:

:

We better start getting that retirement cake ready for you because, you know, you've only

Speaker4:

:

got a few more years, Boomer.

Speaker1:

:

You're out the door.

Speaker4:

:

That's right.

Speaker2:

:

Surprise. We're like bad pennies.

Speaker2:

:

We keep showing

Speaker3:

:

Up.

Speaker4:

:

But and that's you know, it's funny, but it's a beauty like we used to think of our

Speaker4:

:

parents. Well, sure, they needed to retire at 60 or 65.

Speaker4:

:

And now we say, well, my goodness, I'm going to live to be 80, 90, 100 years old.

Speaker4:

:

We've had so many advancements in health care and medical practices and, you know, we

Speaker4:

:

didn't wear seatbelts as a kid and now we all do.

Speaker4:

:

You know, that was the only way I could avoid my mom reaching behind the seat and

Speaker4:

:

smacking me was because I didn't have a seatbelt on.

Speaker4:

:

But they didn't

Speaker2:

:

Even exist

Speaker1:

:

In the back seat.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah, but now we do.

Speaker4:

:

And it's to our betterment and it's to our betterment that we as a as a community, we

Speaker4:

:

figure out how do we keep the experience and knowledge that mature workers have in our

Speaker4:

:

work environment, but also provide them the flexibility and agility that younger

Speaker4:

:

generations have already demanded.

Speaker4:

:

They've said, hey, I want to come and go from work.

Speaker4:

:

I want to work from home, regardless of whether there's a pandemic happening or not.

Speaker4:

:

And we need to find that balance in the workplace so that we have those generations all

Speaker4:

:

with equal access and working together.

Speaker3:

:

I am in love with the current workforce because it is intergenerational.

Speaker3:

:

I think we have between four and five generations at any given moment in a workforce.

Speaker3:

:

So it's pretty cool to be able to go into an environment and to have so much diversity of

Speaker3:

:

thought, if you will. So when I think about what diversity and inclusion looks like in

Speaker3:

:

the workplace, it isn't so much about diversity.

Speaker3:

:

We get that. We know that diversity is a fact.

Speaker3:

:

We are represent layers and levels of diversity, dimensions of diversity.

Speaker3:

:

But now it's how do we make sure that in a 21st century, we all can thrive in this

Speaker3:

:

workplace. And so we have some great resources out there that talks about how do we

Speaker3:

:

create work environments of inclusive leadership and of belonging.

Speaker3:

:

And so that's where my focus, where my work is, where of small boutique firm that focuses

Speaker3:

:

on capacity building.

Speaker3:

:

But we're focusing on capacity building in terms of how do we create work with the

Speaker3:

:

workforce to create cultures and to create a climate where, despite who you are, despite

Speaker3:

:

your background, despite your age, you can come in and you are valuable and you are a

Speaker3:

:

resource and you can thrive in that setting.

Speaker4:

:

Hmm. I think Cortini touches on a great word, their culture.

Speaker4:

:

Right. If we go back 30 or 40 years ago and you walked up to somebody at Nationwide

Speaker4:

:

Insurance and you say, what's your culture?

Speaker4:

:

They would say, well, we sell insurance.

Speaker4:

:

Oh, no, that's not it.

Speaker4:

:

Culture is the fabric of your people.

Speaker4:

:

Culture is what your leadership says.

Speaker4:

:

This is our mission, our vision.

Speaker4:

:

And we're going to resource you around that.

Speaker4:

:

We're going to show up in our internal workspaces, but we're also going to show up in the

Speaker4:

:

community in alignment with what we are as a culture.

Speaker4:

:

And now with the great work of people like Courtney and others, we actually can address

Speaker4:

:

how we can build a culture that's inclusive, that is representative of not just one

Speaker4:

:

leader in the organization, but representative of the entire organization and how they

Speaker4:

:

want to be positioned in the community and get credit for the good work that they are

Speaker4:

:

doing in that community.

Speaker4:

:

And where there's gaps, we can address those gaps with intentional design.

Speaker2:

:

Right. I, I love that notion of and we've been talking about that the insight that our

Speaker2:

:

young people have.

Speaker2:

:

So one of my young cousins is graduating from Toledo this semester, going to work for a

Speaker2:

:

company in Madison, Wisconsin.

Speaker2:

:

And so for me, my first question is, oh, my God, there's so much snow.

Speaker2:

:

Why are you going that far north from him?

Speaker2:

:

It was right up.

Speaker2:

:

Right. And Carol, I love the culture at the company was inclusive.

Speaker2:

:

And and so they are learning.

Speaker2:

:

They're learning. So now let's go back to that idea that we had before.

Speaker2:

:

In the first podcast is 40 years ago.

Speaker2:

:

I thought we were on the right track and we weren't.

Speaker2:

:

How what do you see these young people doing in terms of these future steps?

Speaker2:

:

How can we really need that promise of diversity and inclusion?

Speaker2:

:

What are what should they be expecting?

Speaker3:

:

Yeah. So Peter Drucker is a strategist.

Speaker3:

:

He's a famous strategist.

Speaker3:

:

And he talks about he has a quote that says, Culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Speaker3:

:

This is not a millennial who said this, but he has a very strong point is that we now

Speaker3:

:

have generations to generations that's coming into the workforce.

Speaker3:

:

And like your nephew, they're saying, I want the environment to where I can be happy to

Speaker3:

:

where I want to go to work every day, which is very different from the stereotype of baby

Speaker3:

:

boomers and traditionalists that just went to work and maybe clocked in and out.

Speaker3:

:

I think of the Flintstones when you saw Fred putting that kid in and blacking out.

Speaker3:

:

Right now,

Speaker2:

:

We old folks, we were doing

Speaker3:

:

I mean, we all like that's the stereotype around the older generation.

Speaker2:

:

But the issue then our our our narrow look at the workplace is how much did we make and

Speaker2:

:

how much vacation did we get?

Speaker2:

:

Because I had to sleep.

Speaker3:

:

I just need to make money to take care of my family and I need benefits.

Speaker3:

:

And now you have younger generations coming in and saying, no, I need a place where I can

Speaker3:

:

actually thrive.

Speaker3:

:

I need a place where I actually feel good about coming to work and doing great work.

Speaker3:

:

And so that's making companies have to focus on culture, that's making companies have to

Speaker3:

:

focus on being inclusive environments and being in environments where people belong,

Speaker3:

:

where people can actually show up and be who they are.

Speaker3:

:

It feels it feels odd.

Speaker3:

:

It feels weird. But that is the work of the future for DNI.

Speaker3:

:

That is the work. And in terms of creating those spaces that are inclusive and where

Speaker3:

:

people belong, we actually are then going to be creating these equitable space.

Speaker3:

:

We actually are then going to be creating these equitable spaces that help people that

Speaker3:

:

that that become a space where we're making sure we pay people their value and not making

Speaker3:

:

sure that we pay them differently.

Speaker3:

:

We're made. Ensure that all people have benefits, that all people are able to take off,

Speaker3:

:

that you no longer have to be sick and still have to go to work.

Speaker3:

:

So having the younger generations say, I don't want to work for a place that isn't like

Speaker3:

:

this, or in the case of your nephew, I want to work for a place because it was like this,

Speaker3:

:

that's going to change the way we do work and that's also going to change companies

Speaker3:

:

customer base, because we're going to support companies that are actually taking care of

Speaker3:

:

their people because then we're going to trust them to take care of us.

Speaker4:

:

Courtney makes a great point throughout what she just shared.

Speaker4:

:

And I think we recognize in the workforce there's been a huge shift in the dynamic.

Speaker4:

:

When we go back to the 60s and 70s and 80s, it was an employer driven market.

Speaker4:

:

And you were fortunate to get a job.

Speaker4:

:

You were lucky to be able to stay with the company that was going to keep you for 10 or

Speaker4:

:

20 or 30 years.

Speaker4:

:

You're right. And so we many people, whether it's boomers, traditionalist Gen Xers, grew

Speaker4:

:

up in a culture that said, well, you know, go where the job is.

Speaker4:

:

And even if it doesn't quite fit, you need to conform because you're fortunate to be

Speaker4:

:

employed. And we went through those economic upturns and downturns of the 70s, 80s and

Speaker4:

:

90s, and a lot of people stayed in jobs that they weren't happy with or didn't like, but

Speaker4:

:

they needed the benefits or it was good pay or it was a convenient commute or it was

Speaker4:

:

whatever it needed to be for them at that time because they didn't feel they had a choice

Speaker4:

:

to opt out and opt in to a career or an organization that culturally met what they

Speaker4:

:

wanted. And now as we're into the 2010s and 2020, that dynamic has completely flipped and

Speaker4:

:

it's now an employee driven market.

Speaker4:

:

And so employees, whether they are 20 years old or they are 66 years old, can have choices

Speaker4:

:

of where they want to work and they have opportunities that weren't there.

Speaker4:

:

And the access to wealth faster is much greater.

Speaker4:

:

My first job, I made two dollars and fifteen cents an hour.

Speaker4:

:

Yes. And there was nothing illegal about that.

Speaker4:

:

That was what I got paid and I was OK with it.

Speaker4:

:

And I worked hard and I showed up just like I was supposed to and I enjoyed that aspect.

Speaker4:

:

But today you can't get me to walk across the street for two dollars and fifteen cents,

Speaker4:

:

let alone do, you know, an eight hour shift.

Speaker4:

:

And so that that change in the dynamic of the workforce is a big one and 20 and 30 and

Speaker4:

:

even some 40 year olds understand, well, I can pick where I want to work.

Speaker4:

:

I can pick Madison, Wisconsin, because I like the community.

Speaker4:

:

And even if I don't like the job I took there, I'll get a different one in whatever

Speaker4:

:

community I want to be a part of.

Speaker4:

:

A lot of people today are picking their job because their friends work there, because

Speaker4:

:

they like the culture, because it is a shorter commute

Speaker2:

:

And two with work at home, they could live anywhere and work anywhere.

Speaker2:

:

Yes. So, you know, when this really that that notion of the changes in the workforce, it

Speaker2:

:

really is the same as your discussion earlier about changes in technology and how it took

Speaker2:

:

decades to go from horse drawn carriages to cars and technology moved ahead.

Speaker2:

:

Really, the workplace didn't change that much except when technology was changing.

Speaker2:

:

So the change of of the Ford and the

Speaker4:

:

Assembly

Speaker2:

:

Line, the assembly line, the assembly

Speaker4:

:

Line, mass production.

Speaker2:

:

Exactly. And then larger pieces of equipment in factories and those kinds of things.

Speaker2:

:

That's what was changing.

Speaker2:

:

And now our workforce is much more, much less driven by large machinery and much more by

Speaker2:

:

small technology, not smaller in size, but smaller in an space that it uses.

Speaker4:

:

Absolutely. And the very notion you touch on.

Speaker4:

:

There's a wonderful author, Heather McGowan, who wrote a book, Future of Work.

Speaker4:

:

She has many other publications out there and write, what Heather talks about is the

Speaker4:

:

dynamic acceleration over the last 15 years in the work environment and how that

Speaker4:

:

technology has impacted what we value.

Speaker4:

:

We no longer valued the stored knowledge of a Ph.D.

Speaker4:

:

who can sit in the room and has read, you know, volumes of books.

Speaker4:

:

We valued the mechanic who can fix the noise in our car immediately in real time, and

Speaker4:

:

then be able to learn how to fix whatever I need fixed next week.

Speaker4:

:

That changed. And it's so we now value information in a very different way.

Speaker4:

:

It's not stored knowledge.

Speaker4:

:

It's applicable now.

Speaker4:

:

And we're OK with that.

Speaker4:

:

It's a change, but we're OK with that, right?

Speaker4:

:

When you think today as you listen to this, well, what are we going to have for our next

Speaker4:

:

meal? Was it going to be lunch or dinner?

Speaker4:

:

If I want to make this amazing chicken cacciatore?

Speaker4:

:

I don't go to my grandmother's Betty Crocker cookbook that's under the shelf.

Speaker4:

:

I actually just get my phone out and I type in and I get 30 different options and one of

Speaker4:

:

them takes five minutes to make and one takes 50 minutes.

Speaker4:

:

And I opt for the five minute option because I'm just not patient enough to invest 50

Speaker4:

:

minutes. And candidly, it's good enough.

Speaker4:

:

It might not be the best chicken cacciatore like my grandmother made, but it's good

Speaker4:

:

enough and we're happy and we move forward with that knowledge, right?

Speaker1:

:

Yeah. You know, we're talking about these changes in the workplace.

Speaker1:

:

And you mentioned that it's it truly is employee driven versus employer driven.

Speaker1:

:

And those opportunities for employees are now we're seeing that employers are recognizing

Speaker1:

:

that if they don't offer the right work environment, depending on the category of of

Speaker1:

:

person, what they're doing in such, you know, the the independent contractors, the I

Speaker1:

:

mean, it's just exploding and it kind of goes back to that, you know, Internet access

Speaker1:

:

that you can do this, you can start your own business like, OK, if you don't offer the

Speaker1:

:

right situation, you're going to lose that person.

Speaker1:

:

They're going to go off and do their own thing.

Speaker1:

:

I mean, I'm a prime example.

Speaker1:

:

At 50, I decide I'm leaving an industry radio that I've been in all my life and go out

Speaker1:

:

and do

Speaker4:

:

Into an industry that didn't exist when you began their career.

Speaker4:

:

It's the evolution, right?

Speaker4:

:

You're really in the communications industry and you've evolved as we've learned how to

Speaker4:

:

communicate differently.

Speaker4:

:

Right. And that's the reality of today's employee.

Speaker4:

:

Right. Is it the job you take when you start?

Speaker4:

:

Likely? I would even bet 100 percent isn't going to be the job you have at the end, even

Speaker4:

:

if you're a doctor or an attorney, because you're going to be doing that job with a

Speaker4:

:

different interface of technology and how you touch your customer or or whoever you're

Speaker4:

:

working with is going to evolve.

Speaker4:

:

And those who are going to prosper are going to be those who evolve with that so that

Speaker4:

:

they can be relevant to their audience.

Speaker2:

:

That's that's key point.

Speaker2:

:

Right.

Speaker1:

:

So, I mean, I guess it comes to this question, what do job seekers need to do to find

Speaker1:

:

success then? I mean, it's an ever moving target.

Speaker1:

:

It's evolving fast.

Speaker1:

:

What do you think? What are some guidelines?

Speaker1:

:

I guess some suggestions?

Speaker4:

:

Well, as I said, you know, some of your audience may say, well, you just said it's an

Speaker4:

:

employee driven market, but I can't find the job I want or nobody's calling me back.

Speaker4:

:

True. And we have to be conscious of that.

Speaker4:

:

We do have to recognize there's still systems with the technology evolving.

Speaker4:

:

We now you can't get your resume looked at by an actual person.

Speaker4:

:

You upload it and then it gets screened in, are screened out based on some automated, you

Speaker4:

:

know, bot that says, well, you have enough keywords in it, so it's not a match.

Speaker4:

:

And so I think it's important for job seekers to own a couple of steps in this.

Speaker4:

:

And one of the first steps is making sure that they have expectations that are realistic.

Speaker4:

:

What is it that I've, you know, garnered through my career, whether it's expertise or a

Speaker4:

:

wide variety of experiences and say, well, how can I apply that in today's market?

Speaker4:

:

You know, is it best for me because I'm now collecting Medicare or a different insurance

Speaker4:

:

setup? Is it best for me to present myself as a part time employee or a contractor?

Speaker4:

:

Because, again, there are more of those options and pathways available?

Speaker4:

:

Or do I need the security, if you will, of a full time position with full time benefits?

Speaker4:

:

And what's best for my current family situation?

Speaker4:

:

We spoke about that in our previous episode about when we go to vote, we vote about our

Speaker4:

:

current situation.

Speaker4:

:

And I think that's what we need to do.

Speaker4:

:

We don't need to have that aspirational piece when we're looking at a job.

Speaker4:

:

We certainly aren't looking at where am I going to be in thirty years?

Speaker4:

:

It's where am I going to be at the end of this year?

Speaker4:

:

And it may be thirty days, not thirty years.

Speaker4:

:

And so we need to have those expectations, the realistic of what our skill set is, how it

Speaker4:

:

matches up into what's available.

Speaker4:

:

We also need to look at what our salary expectations are.

Speaker4:

:

Right. I mentioned a few minutes ago I made very little in my first job, but it's not my

Speaker4:

:

current or next employer's responsibility to pay me for my years of experience, because

Speaker4:

:

the truth is, I might be able to go get a twenty something to be able to do that job, not

Speaker4:

:

with the same maturity you would not with the same expertise you would, but certainly for

Speaker4:

:

a lot less money.

Speaker2:

:

Right. You know that we saw that in the recession in the early 2000s where that in

Speaker2:

:

Columbus, it was the middle management group that was hit and a lot of clients came in to

Speaker2:

:

see me and said, I made thirty dollars an hour.

Speaker2:

:

I'm not working for less than thirty dollars.

Speaker2:

:

And our you know, this is what I need and the notion of what the job was worth just it

Speaker2:

:

just didn't hit them because they were so used to that going on the being on a on a

Speaker2:

:

salary level that had steps up and they just kept moving those steps up and they didn't

Speaker2:

:

see they saw it as starting over.

Speaker2:

:

And that was a negative for them.

Speaker2:

:

And we really had to re-educate older adults to say, no, this is what the job pays for

Speaker2:

:

that employer. That's what their budget holds.

Speaker2:

:

Yeah, it's not a reflection of you.

Speaker4:

:

Absolutely. It's a very fluid market.

Speaker4:

:

Right. I mean, we've seen in, you know, early 2000 we would join these great big Fortune

Speaker4:

:

500 companies and they would completely go away within 10 years.

Speaker4:

:

Mm hmm. And so that notion of loyalty and forever ness, it's gone.

Speaker4:

:

And that doesn't feel good.

Speaker4:

:

But it's OK.

Speaker4:

:

It's OK for you to say I'm only going to use this employer for a year or for the discount

Speaker4:

:

that I get at the home goods store because I want to redo my garden area.

Speaker4:

:

That's OK to use your skill set to help yourself get paid and then use those other

Speaker4:

:

benefits of the environment to help you.

Speaker4:

:

Because the employee or excuse me, the employer is saying, well, I'm only going to use

Speaker4:

:

this person until it doesn't benefit me any further because we're going to continue to

Speaker4:

:

change what we're producing.

Speaker4:

:

And I think that's an important part.

Speaker4:

:

We look at how the pandemic of 2020.

Speaker4:

:

Right grocery stores moved from being high touch customer service to being a warehouse

Speaker4:

:

that somebody else went in.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah, somebody else would go in.

Speaker4:

:

And based on what you had ordered off line, fill your car, bring it out to your car and

Speaker4:

:

loaded into your car.

Speaker4:

:

So it really became a distribution center, not an area where we walked through and we

Speaker4:

:

talked to the butcher personally or we talked to somebody along the way.

Speaker4:

:

And that evolution of what we thought the grocery store was just a few months prior to

Speaker4:

:

that, to what it is today, it's that convenience of it is going to sustain.

Speaker4:

:

Yet we still need to make sure we recognize truly these small businesses that are your

Speaker4:

:

local delicatessen, that are your local butcher, that need support and the value that

Speaker4:

:

direct touch.

Speaker2:

:

Tim, I wanted to step back for just a second.

Speaker2:

:

When we're looking at what job seekers need to do in terms of making sure that they are

Speaker2:

:

going to be successful in the workplace, regardless of who that job seeker is.

Speaker2:

:

Let's talk about those transferable skills.

Speaker2:

:

You know, how do you go back and translate your experiences, your knowledge and and your

Speaker2:

:

own internal culture to make you a good job seeker?

Speaker4:

:

Yeah, well, right.

Speaker4:

:

It starts with taking a good self inventory and understanding that the resume that you've

Speaker4:

:

kept prepared for many years and just kind of updated and changed the date, you may need

Speaker4:

:

to take a whole nother rewrite on it.

Speaker4:

:

And what degree bring your daughter, your grandson into the conversation so that you get

Speaker4:

:

relevant language of how it's used in business work or business style today, because

Speaker4:

:

sometimes we might only give ourselves credit for doing administrative work when the

Speaker4:

:

reality is we were coordinating the entire executive team.

Speaker4:

:

Right. And we were doing so much more than what that label that, you know, came across on

Speaker4:

:

our right, our our resume said.

Speaker4:

:

So I think there's a lot of opportunity for individuals to take a look at how they're

Speaker4:

:

giving themselves credit for the work that they've accomplished and put it in current and

Speaker4:

:

relevant language.

Speaker4:

:

And then it's also, you know, we use this term a lot networking, but it's reaching out to

Speaker4:

:

your network or establishing a larger network so that you understand what's available and

Speaker4:

:

how that personal referral works.

Speaker4:

:

And it's, you know, agencies like where you came from, Carol, in, you know, those

Speaker4:

:

agencies have a ton of resources that allow you to show up to the employer in a preferred

Speaker4:

:

manner. And this is real in our virtual environment or it's in, you know, still the

Speaker4:

:

physical let's get together and network introvert.

Speaker3:

:

So I'm going to speak practically as someone who could never go outside and be totally

Speaker3:

:

happy with that life, which has been totally happy with covid.

Speaker3:

:

So let's speak practically for the people who are a little shy about the current

Speaker3:

:

workforce because it is so different than what you were used to or because you had a bad

Speaker3:

:

experience in your last one, there are some really practical resources are steps out

Speaker3:

:

there you can take. So if you're looking at.

Speaker3:

:

Updating your resume and getting kind of acclimated to some of the new language, go to

Speaker3:

:

LinkedIn. A lot of people don't like LinkedIn, but I find that introverts like me, we do

Speaker3:

:

like LinkedIn because it is a hub of resources.

Speaker3:

:

And you can connect to companies that way and companies will see your profile and see you

Speaker3:

:

and then they will connect to you.

Speaker3:

:

I showed I show up in 120 searches a week and I don't do anything right.

Speaker3:

:

So LinkedIn is a really good place to go and explore and get lost.

Speaker3:

:

Not only is it a place to go and explore, but it in terms of jobs, but it gives you

Speaker3:

:

updated articles.

Speaker3:

:

There's this wonderful woman and her I think her name is Carol Pinchot and she does a

Speaker3:

:

workplace blog every week.

Speaker3:

:

That is a place that we should be going.

Speaker3:

:

That is a place that we should be listening to.

Speaker3:

:

Also YouTube.

Speaker3:

:

I know people don't want to hear it, but YouTube is a phenomenal place to go because you

Speaker3:

:

can hear seven minute videos of people talking.

Speaker3:

:

And not only are you getting some of that new lingo, some of that new language, but

Speaker3:

:

you're also learning something.

Speaker3:

:

So we're switching to automated.

Speaker3:

:

We're going to quick books.

Speaker3:

:

My mom got on quick books and started telling me about quick books, and she said, I just

Speaker3:

:

watched some YouTube videos.

Speaker3:

:

And this is a 60 year old, very vibrant woman who could have another career, I hope, as

Speaker3:

:

my bookkeeper. But she is like, I know cookbook's.

Speaker3:

:

Oh, you do what that helped me to set up because I trained us.

Speaker3:

:

But it's amazing that

Speaker2:

:

She and I taught myself

Speaker3:

:

And that's what she's doing.

Speaker3:

:

She watched three videos.

Speaker3:

:

Right. You do that. But guess what she said.

Speaker3:

:

I don't want to not I don't want to not know it if we're meeting for somebody to train

Speaker3:

:

us. So in her mind, she wanted to kind of know it first.

Speaker3:

:

Right. And then.

Speaker3:

:

Right.

Speaker2:

:

So then you can ask the right questions so she could

Speaker3:

:

Ask the right questions, I guess.

Speaker3:

:

Who helped her do that? YouTube.

Speaker3:

:

Yeah. There's also Simon Sinek.

Speaker3:

:

He wrote the book. Why?

Speaker3:

:

But if you go to Simon Cynics website, the beauty of him is that every week he puts out

Speaker3:

:

these webinars, these classes, if you will.

Speaker3:

:

And they're just talking about everything, but it's always geared toward the workplace,

Speaker3:

:

the right kind of culture, making sure you show up as who you are and be confident in

Speaker3:

:

that and just listening to some of that if it helps anybody.

Speaker3:

:

All right. So those are some really practical resources to just go explore without

Speaker3:

:

without being under the microscope of anybody looking at you saying, OK, Boomer, you're

Speaker3:

:

not hip to that. No.

Speaker3:

:

Yeah. You can get lost in some stuff.

Speaker2:

:

And for our listeners, we're going to put all of this into our resources page for the on

Speaker2:

:

the show notes for for this podcast.

Speaker2:

:

But I do have to give kind of a shout out to the central Ohio non-profits.

Speaker2:

:

Yes, we have phenomenal resources in central Ohio.

Speaker2:

:

And if you're listening from outside of central Ohio, I'm sorry, but chances are pretty

Speaker2:

:

good you're going to find some resources in your community to they really are a lot of

Speaker2:

:

organizations and it's their expertise that's going to make you a better job candidate.

Speaker2:

:

So we'll add those to our resource sheet and and don't hesitate to contact them.

Speaker2:

:

And for the most part, it's their free services.

Speaker2:

:

So you're really not going to lose in this process.

Speaker4:

:

So, absolutely.

Speaker4:

:

I mean, the one thing that Columbus does really well is that they are intentional in

Speaker4:

:

creating those free environments and working collectively.

Speaker4:

:

Right. So whether it's goodwill, United Way Jewish Family Services, a center for refugee

Speaker4:

:

and immigrant services, they they create those wraparound services so that our community

Speaker4:

:

can be better supported.

Speaker4:

:

We still have opportunity to really and I don't like this word, but scale those services

Speaker4:

:

to meet the demand. So we have it, but we still need to work on making it accessible.

Speaker2:

:

Yeah, you both talked and I talk a lot about Otterbein.

Speaker2:

:

You both talk about your alma maters.

Speaker2:

:

For those of you who are job seeking out there and have especially if you're having some

Speaker2:

:

difficulty, check back if you had the opportunity to go to to college, check back with

Speaker2:

:

your career services offices, because many of them are helping alumni, especially in the

Speaker2:

:

environment that we're going through now with the workplace with a pandemic.

Speaker2:

:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker4:

:

That's it. Year two year and four year colleges.

Speaker4:

:

And also, if you took a vocational school class at one of your career tecs in the

Speaker4:

:

community, they have great career service resources as well.

Speaker4:

:

And candidly, employers are knocking on their doors saying we need more welders, we need

Speaker4:

:

more pipefitters, we need more electricians, we need more Astana's.

Speaker4:

:

And so they have that network into the job market.

Speaker2:

:

Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker2:

:

And that and that's so that goes back to that notion of networking is that and I'm going

Speaker2:

:

to be walking right into our next question that Bret's going to ask you for for me when

Speaker2:

:

I'm talking about networking, it really is part of a learning experience.

Speaker2:

:

You know, networking is not just tapping everybody.

Speaker2:

:

You know, it's getting information for everybody that you talk to.

Speaker2:

:

And so that's part of this, getting yourself prepared to be a good jobs.

Speaker1:

:

And, you know, and we touched upon the lifelong learning piece of this and just talked

Speaker1:

:

about, you know, going back to school or education and said, but, you know, and but we

Speaker1:

:

did talk a little bit about there's free stuff online, too.

Speaker1:

:

There are lots of opportunities.

Speaker1:

:

Let's kind of encapsulate a little bit about here are some things keep in mind, that are

Speaker1:

:

out there to do.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I introduced a new term to you, Mark, right.

Speaker4:

:

MOOC a massive online open course.

Speaker4:

:

Well, these are verified certified courses that come from the likes of Stanford, Ohio

Speaker4:

:

State or another, you know, entity that you can go online and register for and take as

Speaker4:

:

many or as few as you like.

Speaker4:

:

Some have cost, some don't.

Speaker4:

:

If you want to get the formal degree or certification that comes along with it, there's

Speaker4:

:

often a cost. But in many cases you can sit in and audit that course virtually from

Speaker4:

:

wherever you are.

Speaker4:

:

Right. So that approach of, you know, the beauty of technology is now information is so

Speaker4:

:

readily available that we have access to it.

Speaker4:

:

We don't have to show up on the physical campus to become a learner.

Speaker4:

:

Right now, the challenges for some of us, we learn better when we do show up on the

Speaker4:

:

campus or in the building and sit with the teacher so that we can directly interact with

Speaker4:

:

that instructor. And those opportunities exist as well, especially for our more mature

Speaker4:

:

workers. There are lots of boot camps.

Speaker4:

:

There are lots of free conferences that you can attend and participate in and you can

Speaker4:

:

even look at your formal education institutes.

Speaker4:

:

We have over 40 colleges and universities in the Columbus market that you can sit in and

Speaker4:

:

ordered a course for free.

Speaker4:

:

Mm hmm.

Speaker2:

:

Right. Yes.

Speaker2:

:

Program. He is phenomenal at Ohio State as those programs exist at Columbus State,

Speaker2:

:

Otterbein and I think capital also

Speaker3:

:

And one of the things that I think we now have learned as a society because of it is that

Speaker3:

:

Zoome, it's great to go sit in person, but you can attend a virtual classroom anywhere in

Speaker3:

:

the world through Zoome, through WebEx, through all of this, all of these now online

Speaker3:

:

platforms. And it's unbelievable.

Speaker3:

:

Like the Library of Congress, the Smithsonian, they have free webinars, right, that you

Speaker3:

:

don't have to pay for, that you don't have to.

Speaker3:

:

All you do is go sign up and you get the link so you can have education from anywhere in

Speaker3:

:

our country but anywhere in the world now.

Speaker3:

:

So I think I take advantage of that.

Speaker3:

:

I don't think there's an age on taking advantage of the fact that we are getting really,

Speaker3:

:

really, really great information out there today.

Speaker3:

:

Right, from researchers, from people who just want to do it because they're also enjoying

Speaker3:

:

it. We should be taking full advantage of that.

Speaker3:

:

Another thing that I would say start to look into is that I know we know from research

Speaker3:

:

that black women are leaving the workforce to start their own businesses.

Speaker3:

:

I'm one of those that fall in that statistic.

Speaker3:

:

There are so many opportunities now to make money based off of what you just like and

Speaker3:

:

what you just what your passion is.

Speaker3:

:

So don't think as much as we know, the diversity of age in the workforce is actually

Speaker3:

:

given us a strategic and innovative strategic win.

Speaker3:

:

If you if you choose not to go back to the workplace, you can still that whole side

Speaker3:

:

hustle that side gig, whatever language they're calling it, is now money making

Speaker3:

:

opportunities for everybody, despite what generation you fall in.

Speaker3:

:

So start checking it out.

Speaker3:

:

I know groups of people who use EXI, I know groups of people who sit on Amazon.

Speaker3:

:

I know groups of people who are just fine in a way making money by what they just wake up

Speaker3:

:

and enjoy doing.

Speaker1:

:

And what's funny is, and the opportunity is there is that they are groups, support groups

Speaker1:

:

to help people to get there.

Speaker1:

:

So you're not going it alone because it can be daunting.

Speaker1:

:

And I do want to do this.

Speaker1:

:

I want to follow my passion.

Speaker1:

:

I'm going to sell make this this product.

Speaker1:

:

But how do I do this?

Speaker1:

:

How do I actually make a living doing it over time?

Speaker1:

:

And there are so many free groups out there, support groups, mentors that will love to

Speaker1:

:

help you get there because they they have that opportunity given to them.

Speaker1:

:

Somebody help them. And now it's their give back.

Speaker1:

:

Right now it's there.

Speaker3:

:

And when I left my you know, when I first left my job, as we talked about an earlier

Speaker3:

:

session, I was looking for a job.

Speaker3:

:

Even though I was helping my mom, I was a caregiver.

Speaker3:

:

I still needed employment because I had a mortgage and I didn't want my dying dad or my

Speaker3:

:

mom to feel like they had to take care of me.

Speaker3:

:

Right, without his education.

Speaker3:

:

So going on interviews, it became I think Tim spoke to her earlier.

Speaker3:

:

It's coded language in interviews.

Speaker3:

:

And we know that we see it in our in our more mature populations.

Speaker3:

:

There is some ageism.

Speaker3:

:

We know that happening out there.

Speaker3:

:

There's coded language that I dealt with where you're overqualified or you're

Speaker3:

:

underqualified or is all this.

Speaker3:

:

But we have the skill set.

Speaker3:

:

And so that becomes very frustrating when, you know, you are talented, when you know you

Speaker3:

:

are vibrant, when you know that you are full of life.

Speaker3:

:

So when Bret talks about those communities, it is so important to find those communities.

Speaker3:

:

And then you realize I can do this on my own.

Speaker3:

:

And before you know it, you're making more money than you would made in that salary job,

Speaker3:

:

which I think is what when you read about it, you will see people.

Speaker3:

:

There are stories and research of people who are now making money, doing what they love

Speaker3:

:

and probably making more money doing what they love.

Speaker3:

:

So it is just I don't want to just be the optimist here, but I want I do want people to

Speaker3:

:

hear that we are in a space, an environment, a climate, a culture where we can do

Speaker3:

:

whatever we want.

Speaker3:

:

And I don't know if we've ever seen that before.

Speaker4:

:

And I very true. I think Kourtney brings up some great points and as well as Brett, that

Speaker4:

:

the barriers to access to do your own thing.

Speaker4:

:

Right. Instead of it being a side hustle where you had to work a 40 plus hour a week job,

Speaker4:

:

be the care provider in the home, and then try to find time to do the other patients that

Speaker4:

:

you have. We've evolved as a society where we now have access to do that.

Speaker4:

:

You know, the notion of getting something copyrighted or proprietary was, you know, oh, I

Speaker4:

:

got to get a lawyer, I got to do all of this.

Speaker4:

:

Now, we can do this with a few forms and clicks online.

Speaker4:

:

And we own our own name.

Speaker4:

:

We own our own rights to our own right product that we're creating our website.

Speaker2:

:

We can do all thing.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah. And with that, that allows a lot of people who have talent that otherwise would have

Speaker4:

:

been overlooked to come into.

Speaker4:

:

The marketplace and we have the distribution where we can go direct to the customer,

Speaker4:

:

right? We used to have to go through.

Speaker4:

:

Well, I can't sell this product or this service unless I'm affiliated with something

Speaker4:

:

else. Now, I can deliver this directly to you in a plethora of options online.

Speaker2:

:

Right. To two resources that I just want to throw in here real quickly, because it

Speaker2:

:

starting a business in Ohio is not difficult.

Speaker2:

:

It can be done. State of Ohio has their small business centers that will help in all of

Speaker2:

:

the services are free.

Speaker2:

:

The SBA has services.

Speaker2:

:

It's all free. Tim, you were talking about Moogs, one that is lynda.com l y n'diaye dot

Speaker2:

:

com many people use, but there are fees to it.

Speaker2:

:

Go get a get a library card from Columbus Public Library, go through their resources.

Speaker2:

:

They're offering tens of thousands of courses.

Speaker2:

:

So just want to throw that out.

Speaker2:

:

And again, we're going to add all this to our our resources sheet.

Speaker2:

:

But I just want to go on to to my next question, because it's really sort of to finalize

Speaker2:

:

this part of our our conversation.

Speaker2:

:

Employers are telling you, oh, you're too overqualified.

Speaker2:

:

You know, we heard that for our older job seekers so many times, it was amazing.

Speaker2:

:

There's a disconnect between what we think we employers want us to say in an interview

Speaker2:

:

and what they're really looking for.

Speaker2:

:

Some advice.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah, I'm fortunate that I get to participate in a number of advisory boards here in the

Speaker4:

:

Columbus area that are pretty much made of the directors and leaders of talent

Speaker4:

:

acquisition and recruiting and every one of them, whether they're in health care,

Speaker4:

:

insurance, food and beverage, they say I just can't find enough people.

Speaker4:

:

And I always find that disheartening because I look out and I say, we have so many good

Speaker4:

:

people in our community, so many talented people who are willing and ready to work.

Speaker4:

:

So there's clearly right your word, Carol, a disconnect there.

Speaker4:

:

Yes. And I feel part of that disconnect is on the employers.

Speaker4:

:

They have to take a look at what are their expectations and what are those job

Speaker4:

:

descriptions requiring?

Speaker4:

:

When is that real?

Speaker2:

:

And is that is is what they put into their tracking system really what they want?

Speaker2:

:

It's the yeah. The old typical adage on computers, you know, you put garbage in, you're

Speaker2:

:

getting garbage out if you put in.

Speaker2:

:

Information into that tracking system, which is not really the candidate you want, you

Speaker2:

:

are never going to get a candidate.

Speaker3:

:

Yeah, and the beauty of so the work that I get the privilege to do on every day and

Speaker3:

:

diversity, inclusion and equity is that we know that there's bias in hiring practices.

Speaker3:

:

We know that as much as companies want to do EHI, which is using, you know, artificial

Speaker3:

:

intelligence to hire and to track.

Speaker3:

:

We know that the person that's entering the information into the FBI, if they are bias,

Speaker3:

:

then they're entry coded language and words that also create bias.

Speaker3:

:

So we can expect for these tracking systems to just miraculously.

Speaker2:

:

Right. And it may be that they just don't know.

Speaker3:

:

They don't know because unconscious bias means you don't know.

Speaker3:

:

That's by definition, they write been

Speaker2:

:

Trained and

Speaker3:

:

You have not been trained to do it correctly.

Speaker3:

:

So that leads to the beauty of the work that I get to do.

Speaker3:

:

I have a privilege of working with H.R.

Speaker3:

:

executives and H.R.

Speaker3:

:

teams that literally are doing the work of going through their hiring practices, meaning

Speaker3:

:

do we actually need somebody to have a masters degree for this job?

Speaker3:

:

And historically we've done that.

Speaker3:

:

Have we actually lost talent because we've put that in there and we really don't need it.

Speaker3:

:

We now have conversations around when we say it's not they're not a good fit.

Speaker3:

:

What really does that mean?

Speaker3:

:

Is that our own unconscious bias, because they don't talk the way we speak, they don't

Speaker3:

:

use the right language. We think, are we actually not bringing that talent because of

Speaker3:

:

that? Those conversations are happening.

Speaker3:

:

And a plug for central Ohio.

Speaker3:

:

There are some incredible organizations in central Ohio who are having those

Speaker3:

:

conversations and who are also doing the work to make sure that they change how they

Speaker3:

:

recruit, to make sure how they hire, to make sure how they even have hiring panels.

Speaker3:

:

So there is a lot of work happening to make sure that we are more inclusive in the way we

Speaker3:

:

hire and that we are bringing making sure that we have talent and not just the talent we

Speaker3:

:

think we want, but the talent that our organization needs.

Speaker3:

:

And I want our listeners to hear that, to know that as much as we're asking you to do the

Speaker3:

:

work, to update your resume, to jump on LinkedIn, know that on the other side, the

Speaker3:

:

employers are being challenged and charged to also do the same.

Speaker3:

:

So if we do this right and well and people like Tim and I in the workforce helping and

Speaker3:

:

people like you that are having these conversations, if we all do this together, then we

Speaker3:

:

have an opportunity to change the way our workforce looks.

Speaker3:

:

And that goes back to my earlier point that we now know that research says having these

Speaker3:

:

different inner generations, these different generations in the workforce actually is a

Speaker3:

:

strategic advantage because it's helping with innovation and is helping with that bottom

Speaker3:

:

line.

Speaker2:

:

You know, one of the things that we used to tell our older clients is don't assume that

Speaker2:

:

the interviewer that you are going to be talking with is good.

Speaker2:

:

And again, it's not their fault.

Speaker2:

:

They may be literally the receptionist who got stuck because they enter the normal

Speaker2:

:

interview. A recruiter is not in that day.

Speaker2:

:

So but also that the.

Speaker2:

:

Systems are correct, so I'm sort of beating this again a little bit, but to put it in

Speaker2:

:

perspective, when when the tracking systems first started, we were working with an

Speaker2:

:

employer and trying to post their jobs and get people to apply to this great

Speaker2:

:

organization, one of the largest in the communities.

Speaker2:

:

And people were calling saying, Carol, I can't get through the system.

Speaker2:

:

It's knocking me out, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker2:

:

I called the recruiter and I said, have you ever done this?

Speaker2:

:

Have you ever actually applied for a job through your system?

Speaker2:

:

Of course they hadn't.

Speaker2:

:

And they said, well, so why did you pick this particular system?

Speaker2:

:

It really doesn't work.

Speaker2:

:

I mean, I have three degrees and I can't get through your system.

Speaker2:

:

Bottom line is that technical folks picked the system, not the H.R.

Speaker2:

:

folks. So so job seekers have to be just ready to commit to being a job seeker, to really

Speaker2:

:

doing everything you can and be persistent because the systems, they may not be set up to

Speaker2:

:

be biased, but they are biased just because of the way that they were configured.

Speaker2:

:

They are

Speaker3:

:

There. And the more we start to know what this whole thing is, the more we start to

Speaker3:

:

realize how it all has negatively impacted all of us, the better we'll get at it.

Speaker3:

:

But until then, that persistent piece goes as far as to if I know that I am qualified for

Speaker3:

:

this position and I'm not getting through the system, I'm calling Meija.

Speaker3:

:

And a lot of that is I may have to sit on hold.

Speaker3:

:

Now we have speaker phone, so just put the speaker phone.

Speaker3:

:

I want to go wash dishes or, you know, like me, I've typically put loads at a larger

Speaker3:

:

office. They'll work it, but I'm going to make sure I get through and then you say it to

Speaker3:

:

them and then typically they will.

Speaker3:

:

You know, I've had experiences of myself and friends who've then schedule interviews

Speaker3:

:

because the people say, send your resume.

Speaker3:

:

And when you read the resume, it was because we didn't have the right language.

Speaker3:

:

But we have more. We had we had over the skill, but we didn't have the language that

Speaker3:

:

detected that was a technical person put in, right.

Speaker3:

:

Yeah. So there is a little bit of legwork, but you just have to be willing to do it and

Speaker3:

:

trust that. On the other side we are hounding say you have to make sure that you are

Speaker3:

:

putting in key words that isn't resonating.

Speaker3:

:

Right, that you just randomly found on Google or in at the source.

Speaker2:

:

I would get the the eye roll from employers when I'd say you probably have more success if

Speaker2:

:

you didn't use that tracking system and actually had somebody read those resumes right

Speaker2:

:

there like, oh, you know,

Speaker4:

:

So it's a balance that we continue to work through.

Speaker4:

:

Right. Because the advancement of technology benefit us in a lot of ways.

Speaker4:

:

But as you state, Carol, the applicant tracking systems, if they're not set up and if you

Speaker4:

:

don't have educated people using them and I'm talking about on the employer side, then

Speaker4:

:

they actually can do more harm than good.

Speaker4:

:

It's like similar to, you know, the in-person approach.

Speaker4:

:

We shouldn't have to go to a workaround if if the system is working well.

Speaker4:

:

And so I encourage employers, if they aren't getting good candidates, take a really deep

Speaker4:

:

dive, how their entire candidate experience looks, where they putting their

Speaker4:

:

advertisements, who are they reaching out to?

Speaker4:

:

And if they aren't sure how to do that, reach out to Courtney or I and we will help you

Speaker4:

:

navigate that so that you can be more relevant and show up to a larger audience that will

Speaker4:

:

help impact your bottom line.

Speaker2:

:

Yes, your phone numbers and websites and emails will be on the show notes.

Speaker1:

:

Exactly. Well, you know, this podcast is focusing on adults over 50.

Speaker1:

:

Let's let's put it in perspective.

Speaker1:

:

How, you know, what's the advice for older job candidates with all of this that we've

Speaker1:

:

just talked about?

Speaker4:

:

The advice is take advantage of the fact that the younger generation has demanded

Speaker4:

:

flexibility in the workforce.

Speaker4:

:

Right. So now you're at a stage in your life where you've got lots of great experience,

Speaker4:

:

but you you have other things in your life that are commanding your time and attention.

Speaker4:

:

You really do want to be able to care for your grandchildren part time or pick up and

Speaker4:

:

drop off certain things in the community at a volunteer shelter while you also still work

Speaker4:

:

in a relevant space.

Speaker4:

:

So find that balance and go and approach the manager of the store or the friend that you

Speaker4:

:

used to work with that you trained to backfill your role.

Speaker4:

:

Ask them, well, well, I know how to do quick books or I know how to do all of that.

Speaker4:

:

Can I come in and just work 20 hours a week or can I work 30 or.

Speaker4:

:

You know what? We actually are in a great position and be forthright and say I don't need

Speaker4:

:

benefits. So is there a contract situation that I can explore?

Speaker4:

:

And if that's intimidating to you, then take the time to meet with some of these local

Speaker4:

:

nonprofits and their work groups and help them walk you through what that looks like.

Speaker4:

:

And right, it's don't be intimidated by starting your own business, take your side,

Speaker4:

:

hustle your side gig and make it real, and a lot of times I've heard folks say, well, how

Speaker4:

:

am I going to cover my insurance?

Speaker4:

:

Well, we have a whole health marketplace and it's not perfect, but it's there and it

Speaker4:

:

didn't used to be.

Speaker4:

:

And now you can go out and you can pick your insurance however you choose according to

Speaker4:

:

what your family needs are and what your affordability is.

Speaker4:

:

But, you know, for the more mature worker and it cracks me up because.

Speaker4:

:

Right. According to the the US Congress, at 40 plus you're now protected by the Age

Speaker4:

:

Discrimination Act.

Speaker2:

:

You two are on now.

Speaker4:

:

Yeah. And I think, you know, I know people who are still very productive at work and

Speaker4:

:

they're beyond 70 and they know everything that's going on in the environment.

Speaker4:

:

So it's not it's not simple.

Speaker4:

:

I don't want to make it sound simple, but it is the persistence.

Speaker4:

:

It is the networking.

Speaker4:

:

It is taking that self inventory to have realistic expectations of your time and the

Speaker4:

:

value of your time.

Speaker4:

:

And then it's, you know, using the the technology and the pathways that are there and

Speaker4:

:

moving forward and being committed to it.

Speaker4:

:

I do think it's critical that you stay committed to what you want to do and stay with

Speaker4:

:

that

Speaker2:

:

Talk, talk to people that you are who that are doing what you want to do.

Speaker2:

:

People love talking about their job and their goals and their mission.

Speaker2:

:

And you know how how excited they are to get up and make their widgets every day and talk

Speaker2:

:

to people about that. That's the best way to learn.

Speaker3:

:

And so BBC did an article on 2019 and it talked about how, you know, our our elders are

Speaker3:

:

more seasoned. People can reinvigorate the workforce and we'll put that up for in a

Speaker3:

:

resource. But that is a fantastic it was just a fantastic article, as you all probably

Speaker3:

:

know by now. I think NPR and BBC are great resources for our world.

Speaker3:

:

But they talked about by 20, the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics said by 2026,

Speaker3:

:

one in 10 workers will be 75 and older.

Speaker3:

:

Right, so we already know that, as Tim said, we're not leaving Earth until we're over 100

Speaker3:

:

at this point, right. So our work force, we now have research that says a more age,

Speaker3:

:

diverse workforce is a better workforce.

Speaker3:

:

All right. So just empower yourself to know that you are now an asset when decades.

Speaker3:

:

We didn't look at it that way.

Speaker3:

:

It's now proven.

Speaker3:

:

And guess what? You should also be able to brag to your grandchildren and to your

Speaker3:

:

children that by you staying in the workforce, you're also helping their wages, because

Speaker3:

:

research tells us that the older people who are in the workforce make sure because they

Speaker3:

:

are at a certain wage gap, then they make sure that they're increasing the wages for

Speaker3:

:

other generations.

Speaker3:

:

So, again, a strategic advantage, having age diversity on our teams and in our workforce.

Speaker3:

:

So I would tell people, don't cut yourself out, don't eliminate yourself, arm yourself.

Speaker3:

:

Look at the resources that we're going to put up on yourself with the knowledge and

Speaker3:

:

knowing that you are valuable.

Speaker3:

:

And then from there you say, I no longer want to work to work.

Speaker3:

:

I want to enjoy it.

Speaker3:

:

Then think about what is it that I can do where I enjoy it.

Speaker3:

:

Right. And then you pursue that.

Speaker3:

:

And then after that, you say, how can I make money?

Speaker3:

:

Is it actually going back to the workforce or can I do it online?

Speaker3:

:

And if so, where are the groups that will help me do it online?

Speaker3:

:

There are practical ways to reinvent ourselves, to reinvigorate our lives and to actually

Speaker3:

:

enjoy them. Right.

Speaker3:

:

And so those are the resources that I would just recommend

Speaker2:

:

My my older adult clients were my inspiration.

Speaker2:

:

And so those encore careers for older adults are phenomenal.

Speaker2:

:

That's what I'm doing. I'm on my my second encore career working with Brett, so make him

Speaker2:

:

work. OK, so I look

Speaker3:

:

How happy you two are, by the way.

Speaker3:

:

I know. I think that's the goal here.

Speaker3:

:

We have

Speaker2:

:

Fun. Exactly.

Speaker2:

:

I told him when he when he suggested we do this, I said, as long as we're having fun.

Speaker3:

:

Well, you're examples of what we all should have.

Speaker2:

:

Exactly. Right, exactly.

Speaker2:

:

OK, I'm going to ask you one more question, but I'm going to give you a time limit

Speaker2:

:

because we're running out of time.

Speaker2:

:

Any additional advice?

Speaker4:

:

I'll just add, you know, there is that disconnect, but it isn't one that we can't

Speaker4:

:

overcome, right.

Speaker4:

:

Between opportunity and employment.

Speaker4:

:

And so stay with it.

Speaker4:

:

And the other piece, it's OK if you say this isn't a culture fit and you exit in a month

Speaker4:

:

or two, don't stay in a role just because you have a job.

Speaker4:

:

Make that transition so that you have what Courtney just said, you're happy, right,

Speaker4:

:

right. It's OK to want to be happy and then to go pursue a career that allows you to do

Speaker4:

:

that.

Speaker3:

:

I agree. I have nothing else to add.

Speaker3:

:

I absolutely agree.

Speaker1:

:

Thank you both for being here.

Speaker1:

:

Your insights, your recommendations.

Speaker1:

:

We knew this was going to be a great episode.

Speaker1:

:

We had to reschedule a couple of times.

Speaker1:

:

covid think something.

Speaker1:

:

Yeah, yeah. But you know what?

Speaker1:

:

I hope you get to return, provide us more information.

Speaker1:

:

I know we can dive into more topics and probably get a bit more specific on some things

Speaker1:

:

that we covered a lot of ground, which is good.

Speaker1:

:

It's a it's a good starting point for us to move forward with following episodes.

Speaker2:

:

Thank you. Thank you for joining us.

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube