Shownotes
In this episode we discuss:
- No Vax Jock Evicted
- Deep Throat on where to inject
- When a jab is not a jab
- Tanks! Fucking Tanks!
- More from Dutton
- An election year
- The Saturday Paper Editorial
- Bettoota, The Chaser and The Shovel
- Rat Shortage
- No Free Rats
- Joe has been battling “free thinkers”
- Spending has crashed
- Stats
- Media Bias
- Patrons
- Tony Blair was knighted.
- A Statue for the Queen?
- Church’ defends decision to terminate worker who got COVID jab
- ABC broadcasted a Xmas Message from Hillsong
- Religious but using a civil celebrant?
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Transcripts
Ah, dear listener, we're back.
Speaker:The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast.
Speaker:Back for another year, and it's already kicked off with some amazing
Speaker:stuff happening in the world of news and politics and sex and religion, so
Speaker:we're looking forward to a big year.
Speaker:If you're in the chat room, say hello.
Speaker:Some of you are already there, which is good.
Speaker:Uh, Watley, uh, Diastrates, Jack H is there, so good on you guys.
Speaker:If you're in the chat room, say hello, and You know, a little bit of a straw
Speaker:poll, uh, Novak Djokovic, should we kick him out or let him play?
Speaker:We'll be talking about it obviously, so let us know your thoughts, um,
Speaker:your vote either way and we'll see what you've got to say and maybe
Speaker:you'll, maybe your mind will change as we'll talk about things, so.
Speaker:I of course am Trevor, aka the Iron Fist, uh, with me when she's not
Speaker:flying around the world or Australia.
Speaker:Shay, the subversive, hello Shay.
Speaker:Good evening.
Speaker:And Joe the Tech Guy.
Speaker:Evening all.
Speaker:So we're back for another 2022.
Speaker:Joining us later, um, a special, uh, surprise for you will be Deep
Speaker:Throat, who's going to talk about, uh, vaccinations and where the
Speaker:needle should actually go in your arm and a few other things like that.
Speaker:He's sitting in the green room, um, looking like Santa Claus at the moment,
Speaker:and, uh, he's ready to go when we've finished about Novak Djokovic, and I
Speaker:can see him there, and, um, deep throat, if, if you're really keen to contribute,
Speaker:put your hand up, and we'll put you, we'll put you through, so, but, uh,
Speaker:anyway, yes, okay, 2022, we're kicking it off, and, um, hello David Cox, and
Speaker:hello Daniel in the chat room, Wow.
Speaker:Um, No Vax, Jock Evicted, uh, is what I've titled this episode.
Speaker:Um, Shea, is, is tennis something that you keep track of?
Speaker:Are you a sport, do you follow sport like that at all?
Speaker:No, not really.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Yeah, I did watch Ash Barty at Wimbledon.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:But that would be the first time in years.
Speaker:Have you felt compelled to follow this whole drama, or have you just
Speaker:been like, Nah, couldn't care less.
Speaker:Like, what's it been on your scale of interest?
Speaker:It's, um, been hard to escape.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Yeah, it's just been, it's been everywhere.
Speaker:Facebook, Twitter, the news, um, all my news podcasts.
Speaker:So, kind of do, it is interesting.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:There's not a lot of other things going on necessarily, so.
Speaker:Um, except we've bought 3.
Speaker:2 billion dollars worth of tanks and a few other things that we'll talk about.
Speaker:Oh, oh, okay.
Speaker:If you're in the chat room, uh, leave him in or throw him out.
Speaker:And, uh, David is in the, uh, throw him out camp.
Speaker:Let us know your votes as to what we should do with Novak Djokovic.
Speaker:So, um, really it's a bit of a conundrum here because, uh, as it
Speaker:was said in Crikey, I think it was in Crikey, an article I read which
Speaker:said that, uh, Australia is a country that defines itself by two things.
Speaker:Uh, we love our sport and we love talking, uh, taking down
Speaker:or chopping down tall poppies.
Speaker:So really the case is which one do we enjoy the most here?
Speaker:Do we want our sport or do we want to chop down a tall poppy?
Speaker:Um, really, Morrison's really boxed himself into quite a conundrum
Speaker:here in, and it's hard to see him escaping this without significant
Speaker:damage, so, you know, on the one hand though, this isn't unusual.
Speaker:I mean, every few years, Australia takes an international superstar
Speaker:hostage for unclear reasons and then we release them without explanation, and
Speaker:this is very popular with Australians.
Speaker:And if you're wondering what we're talking about, well the examples historically
Speaker:are, um, Johnny Depp and Amber's Dogs, Pistol and Boo, if you remember.
Speaker:We threatened to deport them.
Speaker:Ah, it will be interesting.
Speaker:Apparently there may be perjury charges on that one.
Speaker:Oh, really?
Speaker:On the, on the Pistol and Boo saga?
Speaker:In the divorce case, uh, there was further evidence came out that
Speaker:Amber Heard had perjured herself.
Speaker:Okay, so that was Barnaby Joyce, of course, who threatened to do that.
Speaker:Frank Sinatra, when he was in town many, many years ago, and he got in trouble for
Speaker:calling, uh, female journalists broads, or hookers, or something like that.
Speaker:And so, basically, Bob Hawke got the, uh, transport industry Basically refused to
Speaker:fly him and he was holed up in a hotel room until he apologised and worked out
Speaker:a settlement and was allowed to move around the country and eventually leave.
Speaker:So, we have held an international superstar hostage before.
Speaker:Um, other examples, um, The Who.
Speaker:The band The Who toured Australia 1968 flanked by Two Small
Speaker:Faces, which was another band.
Speaker:And, uh, they're playing lots of gigs and But the tour was cut short after an
Speaker:incident on an Ansett flight from Adelaide to Essenton that seemed remarkable
Speaker:for its mildness more than anything.
Speaker:En route to Melbourne, a bottle of beer was produced, and
Speaker:off colour language was used.
Speaker:Before long, Prime Minister John Gordon had sent a telegram to the band, insisting
Speaker:that they leave Australia never to return.
Speaker:We've got form on this.
Speaker:And Joe Cocker was expelled in 1970 for drug possession.
Speaker:And that's why drug abuse is completely unknown in this country.
Speaker:What a farce, what a fiasco, what an incompetent bunch of numbnuts we've got
Speaker:in charge of this country who can't even stop a tennis player from coming in,
Speaker:who they knew was a rabid anti vaxxer.
Speaker:They couldn't have written to him, flagged it, worked it out with the
Speaker:tennis officials beforehand, a dire warning saying we're not letting him in.
Speaker:It's just Management 101, if, of course this is going to blow up, but if you're
Speaker:too busy putting on fluoro vests and attending the cricket and other, and
Speaker:holding up a fish that you've just cooked for a curry dish, and, and if you're
Speaker:just into these sorts of things, you're not doing the real work of government.
Speaker:And if your staff is just full of people who are doing your tweets and your social
Speaker:media posts and they're not thinkers.
Speaker:Then, and then, if you just are looking for a knee jerk, if you knee jerk react
Speaker:to everything and you're looking for what you think might be a good distraction
Speaker:from the moment, so when rats are unavailable or expensive in the systems.
Speaker:You know, catastrophe, and you think, oh, here's a diversion,
Speaker:we'll talk tough on Novak Jokovic, and then you get caught out.
Speaker:If you're just lazy and grossly incompetent and are not able to
Speaker:just sort of see things through, this is where you end up.
Speaker:And ah, here's the thing though, dear listener, I just got a message from a
Speaker:close right wing friend of mine, and he was like, ah, fuck ups, they all do it.
Speaker:Look at, look at Labour with the, with the um In summation, Bats, that killed four
Speaker:people and it was a complete catastrophe, they all do it, they're all the same.
Speaker:Like, for some people you will never change them, you'll, no matter how
Speaker:grossly incompetent this bunch is, there are some people you'll never change.
Speaker:Sorry, how many deaths are we going so far?
Speaker:I mean, nowhere near the rest of the world, but Yeah, uh, actually, I looked
Speaker:it up, actually, and it is, um 2, 416 in Australia, since the beginning, yeah.
Speaker:But for some people, you just, no amount of Four deaths is absolutely
Speaker:unbelievable, shouldn't be allowed, and then two and a half thousand,
Speaker:oh well, you know, they all fuck up.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Some people you'll never convince about just what a bunch of hopeless,
Speaker:corrupt, fucking wankers these guys are.
Speaker:But hopefully enough of the younger generation.
Speaker:are seeing something about this and are recognising what have we
Speaker:got ourselves into with this crowd.
Speaker:You would think, Shay, do you hold out hope that this, people will
Speaker:remember this or will they forget?
Speaker:I'm worried they're going to forget.
Speaker:Like, this is only January.
Speaker:I really don't think the young people are the problem.
Speaker:He is speaking to the boomers.
Speaker:This has got boomers, populists all over it.
Speaker:Young people don't traditionally vote for the Liberal National Party.
Speaker:They will see this as a stunt.
Speaker:And I think they're hoping, they're hoping, certainly I am, that like,
Speaker:he's been, he's, Novak Djokovic has basically held Scott Morrison to account.
Speaker:He had a little bit of power, he used the power, good.
Speaker:I would actually, my contempt for Scott Morrison has gotten so big
Speaker:that I would stand shoulder to shoulder with Novak right now.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And fucking let him play.
Speaker:The more humiliation we can bring to Scott Morrison, the happier I am.
Speaker:Seriously, it's a disgrace.
Speaker:It's really, really impactful.
Speaker:The lack of, um It's negligence, not just incompetence.
Speaker:Maybe it'd be more embarrassing for him though, if he does Actually, put him on
Speaker:a plane and send him out of the country.
Speaker:The world media will come crashing down on him at that point.
Speaker:It could be worse.
Speaker:Like, what is the best option here?
Speaker:Do Australians really care what the world thinks?
Speaker:Apparently not.
Speaker:He should, you know, um, unfortunately, his win is going to be seen as
Speaker:a validation of all the ND Vax's points ever, uh, and it's just
Speaker:going to give them more bravado in ignoring and flatting our laws.
Speaker:And, and so, I think We wear it.
Speaker:We say Australia is a sovereign nation.
Speaker:So what if you think you had permission from Tennis Australia?
Speaker:Tennis Australia is not the, um, immigration service.
Speaker:Correct.
Speaker:We'll get on to the details soon.
Speaker:We'll just have a little bit of a rant and get out some frustration from three
Speaker:or four weeks of watching this shit show.
Speaker:It looks like in the chat room you guys are a bit the same.
Speaker:Like you've launched off with an amazing amount of comments here.
Speaker:So, uh, David was in the throw him out camp, uh, Steel Wolf says
Speaker:agreed throw him out, um, uh, Steel Wolf, Steel Wolf asks, is it some
Speaker:sort of tag and release program?
Speaker:You kiss him as you throw him back into the water.
Speaker:Um, uh, let me see, uh, Craig B says can't believe he's still here, and
Speaker:Daniel says we're a sovereign nation, we can turn away whom we please,
Speaker:but I agree it's beyond a farce.
Speaker:Celebrity and sports people are a law unto themselves, so, okay.
Speaker:So if you just joined the chat room, let us know, um, your opinion, uh,
Speaker:should he stay or should he go?
Speaker:What should happen to Novak?
Speaker:Now, if he stays there will be trouble?
Speaker:If he goes there'll be trouble.
Speaker:It's a no win situation now for Morrison.
Speaker:Who declared, by the way, this is when, um, he declared, Mr
Speaker:Jokowicz's visa has been cancelled.
Speaker:Rules are rules, especially when it comes to our borders.
Speaker:No one is above these rules.
Speaker:Our strong border policies have been critical to Australia
Speaker:having one of the lowest death rates in the world from COVID.
Speaker:We are continuing to be vigilant.
Speaker:Ordinarily you'd say, it's impossible to make that statement and not pull
Speaker:the trigger on the special powers that the Immigration Minister has.
Speaker:For fear of appearing to be a massive hypocrite.
Speaker:But of being, the fear of being a massive hypocrite.
Speaker:This doesn't rate with these guys, does it?
Speaker:So, um, uh, okay, um, right, so in the beginning of this whole saga,
Speaker:there was a lot of talk about what did Tennis Australia say to Novak?
Speaker:What assurances did they give?
Speaker:And At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they said.
Speaker:I could have been completely fraudulent about what advice they were giving him.
Speaker:It's not Tennis Australia's, um, role to decide what the rules are.
Speaker:So the rules are there in place, and if Tennis Australia mucked them up
Speaker:or didn't muck them up, really bears nothing in relation to what happens
Speaker:to Jokovic, other than maybe he could sue Tennis Australia for damages.
Speaker:Or misleading him, if that's what they did.
Speaker:So, but it has absolutely no bearing on the actual outcome of his entitlement to a
Speaker:visa as to what Tennis Australia told him, uh, if, if it was contrary to the rules.
Speaker:So, um, I saw a tweet from somebody that said, um, Read the fine print.
Speaker:Did Tennis Australia tell him that federal border restrictions
Speaker:were a different process?
Speaker:Anyone should work that out.
Speaker:Just because I've got a ticket to Disneyland doesn't mean I've
Speaker:got a visa to enter America.
Speaker:That's a good analogy, actually.
Speaker:They had rules in relation to competing in their tennis tournament,
Speaker:and Victoria had rules in relation to quarantining in Victoria.
Speaker:But that's all quite separate to whatever the rules are that the
Speaker:Federal Government has in relation to allowing people into the country.
Speaker:And as much as Morrison will try and deflect and blame Dictator Dan for this,
Speaker:surely everybody recognises that it's the Federal Government's role as to who
Speaker:comes into the country or not on a visa.
Speaker:Surely.
Speaker:They did their best in the early days to try and Distract and blame Dan and blame
Speaker:Tennis Australia, but I think everybody's pretty much worked that out, surely.
Speaker:Well, Border Files are a federal force.
Speaker:Border Files are a federal force, aren't they?
Speaker:Yeah, indeed.
Speaker:I'm a little bit worried that the judge in the case didn't actually work that out.
Speaker:We'll get to that.
Speaker:Well, I was going to say, he just said, uh, you didn't give him due process.
Speaker:Well, but he said more than that.
Speaker:He said, what more could this man have done?
Speaker:The answer was Got vaccinated?
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:It's not difficult.
Speaker:Stayed at home if you didn't meet the visa entry requirements.
Speaker:Something like 90 percent of all Australian adults have managed it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, um, so what have we got here is, um, in the court case, essentially,
Speaker:dear listener, this is about procedure, and was the correct procedure followed
Speaker:when Border Force rejected him?
Speaker:And And the case that Jokowicz won was not, was not on the substantive argument
Speaker:of whether he was validly entitled to a visa and had met the requirements.
Speaker:The argument he'd won was that the border officials Border force
Speaker:officials did not use the appropriate procedure when kicking him out.
Speaker:And that's a totally different thing to the substantive issue.
Speaker:So, so it's really, because what they did was, um, uh, they made procedure,
Speaker:in the end they decided that there were procedural errors and In the
Speaker:small hours of Thursday morning, officials promised Jokovic until 8.
Speaker:30am to seek advice about the proposed cancellation.
Speaker:They reneged on that, abruptly cancelling his visa at 7.
Speaker:42am.
Speaker:One official wanted the matter resolved before their shift ended.
Speaker:That's where they made their mistake.
Speaker:They said one thing and they did another.
Speaker:They made a procedural error.
Speaker:So, there was no decision made about the Act and whether he had complied with it
Speaker:in terms of the requirements for a visa.
Speaker:So, what happens with, uh, this sort of judicial administrative review is the
Speaker:court doesn't substitute a judgement and doesn't say, are the decision maker,
Speaker:um, should, I hereby order the decision maker should have done this, X, Y, Z.
Speaker:The judge simply says, the process was wrong and the decision arrived
Speaker:at at that process is quashed, now go back and do it all again.
Speaker:Like go back and, and reprocess it again and this time don't make the same mistake.
Speaker:That's, that's what happens in these judicial review cases.
Speaker:So, um, By way of explanation with our Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons
Speaker:that is currently before the Supreme Court in Queensland, and we're still
Speaker:waiting on a judgement five months later.
Speaker:Presumably we've got some merit in this case.
Speaker:I'm starting to get excited about it.
Speaker:There were two parts to it.
Speaker:It was basically, we applied to run Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons and
Speaker:we filled in the form and we submitted it.
Speaker:And the, uh, in my view, the decision makers who rejected us, did so because
Speaker:they relied on reasons that we had had no opportunity to object to.
Speaker:They just said, you're rejected because of X, Y, Z, and we
Speaker:meant, what do you mean X, Y, Z?
Speaker:Like, nobody ever asked us about that.
Speaker:You, you never came to us and asked us about those things, so
Speaker:your rejection of us was invalid.
Speaker:So, we've got a really, really strong case to have the procedural letter.
Speaker:thrown out and for the whole case to go back to the Department
Speaker:of Education who will then be asked to make the decision again.
Speaker:And, and, and our case is a little bit different because we also then sought
Speaker:an order, a declaration as to our validity as a religious organisation.
Speaker:But the reason why we sought that declaration is because Just getting a, for
Speaker:us, just winning on administrative review isn't good enough because it just sends
Speaker:it back to the original decision maker who can still just screw you over again.
Speaker:So, so that's what's really happened in this case where the judge has said
Speaker:procedurally Border Force mucked it up.
Speaker:The decision's no good and now it's open to Border Force to make the same decision
Speaker:again but this time do it properly.
Speaker:Or it's also open to, um, one of the Ministers for Immigration to use some
Speaker:extraordinary powers that they've got and just kick him out anyway, so, so,
Speaker:so it's basically all about procedure and the fact that they'd, uh, mucked up
Speaker:the procedures, which is extraordinary because apparently while all this was
Speaker:happening, like, imagine you're in Border Force and you're going to be
Speaker:kicking Jokovic out of the country.
Speaker:You reckon you're not ringing some pretty high up people and
Speaker:saying you want me to do what?
Speaker:What do I say next?
Speaker:At four in the morning.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:He's asked for a delay until 8.
Speaker:30.
Speaker:I told him yes.
Speaker:Okay, but you're telling me now I don't have to?
Speaker:Okay, like all of this would have come from very very high up It's
Speaker:not just some poor Border Force employee With his Gestapo black
Speaker:outfit acting on his own here.
Speaker:Like he's clearly Talking to his superiors.
Speaker:They were on the phone to Dutton.
Speaker:Yeah, and to muck it up procedurally, despite all that, shows that
Speaker:there weren't many lawyers in the room, by the sounds of it.
Speaker:So, um, so yeah, so that's where we're at, is that, um, despite what the
Speaker:judge said, it was all about procedure.
Speaker:It's entirely open to the government to actually look at the rules and say,
Speaker:you did not meet the requirements.
Speaker:Here is a fresh decision, where we have complied with all the
Speaker:things, procedures we need to comply with, and you're out, mate.
Speaker:The other one is that there's just this extraordinary power, because,
Speaker:because we in Australia have, have a, um, a particular expertise in not
Speaker:allowing people into the country, the act in question has these amazingly
Speaker:broad and incredible powers for the relevant minister, just to say, I don't
Speaker:feel like letting you in, out you go.
Speaker:Without any review.
Speaker:So, they've definitely got the power to do it if they want to, you know.
Speaker:Politically though, now, is the question.
Speaker:They're just, it's, it's now about how to, what's the best decision
Speaker:in terms of the next election?
Speaker:There's nothing in this about, oh, what's in Australia's best interest
Speaker:in terms of vaccination and keeping people safe and examples for the future.
Speaker:It's all about, bloody hell, what do we do now so we can win the next election?
Speaker:I don't know which one's the best option, but, I don't know.
Speaker:Good luck.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, that's what we've arrived at.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, there were some comments about, um, effectively, you have to
Speaker:be vaccinated to enter Australia, unless you have a medical exemption,
Speaker:and the medical exemption is only a temporary reprieve, because you've
Speaker:been unable to get vaccinated.
Speaker:So you either cannot be vaccinated or for some reason you were a little more
Speaker:unable to, in which case you've got six months to do it because you've been ill.
Speaker:But that's not a, uh, a free pass.
Speaker:It, it's not a, yeah, because when it comes back next year
Speaker:and we still demand vaccination, is he gonna catch covid again?
Speaker:It's he, he's, well, he's trying to gain, he's gaming the system.
Speaker:He's demanding an exemption.
Speaker:He's demanding special privilege.
Speaker:And I think the answer is no.
Speaker:Fuck off.
Speaker:But doesn't he meet that eligibility requirement because he can get
Speaker:a medical exemption on the basis that it's not recommended to get
Speaker:a vaccine after you've had COVID.
Speaker:There's a period of time you have to wait.
Speaker:Two weeks.
Speaker:I think This is the difficulty.
Speaker:We have until the 16th of December, so what's the date today?
Speaker:After the 30th of December.
Speaker:The difficulty with all this is that as you're reading stuff and people
Speaker:are quoting rules, you don't know whether that's a Tennis Australia
Speaker:rule, whether it's a Victoria quarantining rule, or whether it
Speaker:is a federal government visa rule.
Speaker:And people, as I'm reading stuff in social media, and even in Um, reputable, um,
Speaker:mainstream media are getting these things intertwined and mixed up all the time.
Speaker:So, um, I read somewhere and I haven't had the chance all the time to verify
Speaker:it, which was that under the, under the Migration Act, um, the fact that you, um,
Speaker:you, you couldn't rely on the fact that you've previously contracted a disease.
Speaker:As a reason for not being vaccinated, like it specifically said that
Speaker:in the, in the Migration Act.
Speaker:Now, you'll see other people quoting other stuff, um, but that's to do
Speaker:with often Victorian quarantining rules and Tennis Australia rules
Speaker:and not the federal visa rules.
Speaker:So, the reporting on this by the media has been terrible because they say things
Speaker:like, Djokovic is one, he'll be playing.
Speaker:Without, without stopping and going, well of course the federal government can still
Speaker:make the decision, like, they just knew nothing about it, these people, and, and
Speaker:the confusion where they've been chopping and changing between Atargi rules.
Speaker:Victorian rules, Tennis Australia rules and, and migration rules makes
Speaker:it really confusing to try and, um, um, get to the final answer.
Speaker:So, um, so yeah.
Speaker:But it certainly is the case that the, the Minister can just say on public
Speaker:interest grounds, I'm saying you're out.
Speaker:Apparently I was looking on Twitter, I've actually been following Twitter
Speaker:a little bit in recent times and somebody was saying on that, that,
Speaker:um, That they're looking heavily at whether he lied about whether
Speaker:he travelled in the last two weeks.
Speaker:Apparently when you fill in your form, you have to say whether you have done
Speaker:any overs travelled between countries in the last two weeks, and he said no.
Speaker:And they're looking at his social media posts, which seem to indicate Yes, so
Speaker:the point was he flew out of Spain, so he had to have been in Spain for at least
Speaker:two weeks, and it looks like he didn't leave Serbia until a week before he flew.
Speaker:And there's some other posts with him, social media things, where he's
Speaker:appeared at different things, so.
Speaker:But also, he was supposed to isolate for two weeks after testing
Speaker:positive, and he was pictured out in public with no mask on.
Speaker:But more importantly.
Speaker:On the visa application, when you are asked have you travelled between
Speaker:countries in the last two weeks and you say no, and at the bottom of the
Speaker:application it says if you've lied about anything in your responses, that's a
Speaker:serious problem and we may use that as a reason for rejecting your visa.
Speaker:So, they are madly scampering now to see whether he lied on those sorts of things
Speaker:and will use that as sort of ammunition for potentially bouncing him out.
Speaker:What a mess.
Speaker:What a complete mess.
Speaker:And if he gets kicked out for this, he's banned for three years,
Speaker:although that's a case by case.
Speaker:They could always waive that.
Speaker:They could always say, up to three years.
Speaker:So they could say, well, you can come back next year, if you want to.
Speaker:Oh, dear oh dear.
Speaker:Okay, um.
Speaker:My personal view is, is that if they let him play, that will be it for them.
Speaker:I just think particularly Victoria will be so outranged if they let
Speaker:him play that they'll definitely lose the federal election.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That's my view.
Speaker:I think Australia's largely centrist.
Speaker:I think the
Speaker:Uh, sounds like Shea has just Frozen, and she disappeared.
Speaker:Hopefully she'll come back.
Speaker:So, um, David in the chat room says, It took me two years to get visa,
Speaker:to get my visa to come to Australia.
Speaker:Every single part of every form had to be absolutely correct.
Speaker:Why is it not the same for Novacs?
Speaker:I think it might be David.
Speaker:I think they're going through it with a fine tooth comb.
Speaker:Um, uh, let me just see.
Speaker:Um Uh, did we block Dire Straits for any reason, Joe, in the chat?
Speaker:Have we blocked anybody?
Speaker:No, I've, I've looked.
Speaker:It might be the bot.
Speaker:Okay, it might be the bot who did automatically Dire Straits.
Speaker:We didn't do it, um, so, uh, let's see.
Speaker:Cause Dire Straits thought he was, uh, it was blocking him swearing.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I don't think it might have just, uh, come through quickly.
Speaker:So, okay, hopefully Shea's, um, reconnecting and coming back to us
Speaker:and Um, what else have I got here?
Speaker:Oh, so of course, the Serbian, um, President came out in support of
Speaker:Novak Djokovic, um, called for the end to the harassment, um Yeah, he
Speaker:said, why are we picking on him?
Speaker:He's not a Muslim.
Speaker:Yes, um, at least he cares about his people.
Speaker:Well, there is that.
Speaker:So, Morrison, um, if you're looking at Julian Assange, is just saying, well
Speaker:that's a matter for, uh For the, uh, authorities in the UK, and, uh, nothing
Speaker:to do with us, so At least the Serbian President cares about his people.
Speaker:Uh, also Um, Barnaby Joyce has said that Novak Djokovic's detention is not hurting
Speaker:Australia's international reputation.
Speaker:Which might be a fair enough opinion, except back in 2015, in relation
Speaker:to gay marriage, um, he told the ABC Insiders program that basically
Speaker:Australia's support of gay marriage was harming our international reputation,
Speaker:particularly with places like Indonesia.
Speaker:Um, he said that I think what we have to understand is that when we go there,
Speaker:there are judgments, whether you like it or not, that are made about us.
Speaker:And they see in how we negotiate with them, whether they see us,
Speaker:whether they see us as decadent.
Speaker:So that was Barnaby Joyce saying, one of the problems with marriage equality
Speaker:was what would people think of us.
Speaker:Meanwhile, um, he doesn't see any problem with what, uh, is
Speaker:happening with Novak Djokovic.
Speaker:Um, you know, what would I do now if I was in charge?
Speaker:Sorry, Sarah, you said you would, um, what would you do?
Speaker:You'd let him stay or you'd kick him out?
Speaker:What would you do with York?
Speaker:I think that if they, if, I think that if they let him stay and play, that
Speaker:will be the end of their government, because the outrage will be so, um,
Speaker:palpable, particularly for Victorians, who've fallen all, all the rules.
Speaker:And, um, met all these standards, only to be let down so badly.
Speaker:What would you do if you were in charge?
Speaker:If you were trying to minimise the damage?
Speaker:Well, what would you do?
Speaker:Is it the right thing now?
Speaker:What would you think is the right thing to do?
Speaker:Ignoring whether you want to win an election or whatever, what do
Speaker:you think is the right thing to do?
Speaker:Um, the right thing?
Speaker:God, I haven't thought about that a lot.
Speaker:It's hard to, isn't it?
Speaker:We get so used to, how can we fuck these people over or how
Speaker:can we screw the system or?
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:What about you, Jo?
Speaker:While Che's thinking.
Speaker:Let him play.
Speaker:Let him play.
Speaker:The right thing to do.
Speaker:Joe, if, you know, just It's the right thing to do if you are a benevolent
Speaker:dictator in, or what, no, if you're just I just want to do the right thing here.
Speaker:What, what do you think should happen?
Speaker:I think the right thing is kick him out.
Speaker:Um, he's gaming the system.
Speaker:Uh, whether or Tennis Australia thought he was valid or not.
Speaker:Um, we have rules.
Speaker:He's trying to get an exemption to the rules.
Speaker:And it sends a bad message to those people who feel coerced into getting vaccines.
Speaker:So those who have been vaccinated despite their misgivings.
Speaker:And it aids those who think that they have a right to ignore the
Speaker:rules and not be vaccinated.
Speaker:I think it's not good for us.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Before he left, I would have definitely said, you're not allowed in.
Speaker:I would definitely have been in favour of saying, keep him out because he
Speaker:just doesn't comply with the rules.
Speaker:And, what, if we're just going to let everybody in who's been, had
Speaker:COVID but hasn't been vaccinated, and that's a complete change of our
Speaker:system, um, would that be so bad?
Speaker:So, if we did change the rule and just said, oh, if you've had COVID you can
Speaker:come in, would that be a catastrophe?
Speaker:So, we can change the rules, but the problem is, why are we
Speaker:changing the rules to suit him?
Speaker:Or, like, rules have really got to be changed a lot now though.
Speaker:Like, um, for example, checking in at every cafe that you go to.
Speaker:Why, what's the point now?
Speaker:So, should we just give up on demanding that people are vaccinated because
Speaker:the majority of us are vaccinated?
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, have we reached, when do we reach the point where we just go,
Speaker:the whole point was to get vaccinated so that we can move on, and have not we,
Speaker:have we not reached that point at now?
Speaker:Well, but then, you know, um, you, there's many countries that still
Speaker:demand the yellow fever vaccination.
Speaker:Mm.
Speaker:Before you travel to the country, you know, why can it not be part of,
Speaker:um, our, our border requirements?
Speaker:There was, certainly when I applied for my visa to come here, um, I couldn't be HIV
Speaker:positive and I couldn't have tuberculosis.
Speaker:So You know, and that was because, yeah, and that was because we don't
Speaker:want to have to pay for your health care in the, which you have a much
Speaker:higher risk of, of, so if Djokovic caught COVID and ended up in hospital
Speaker:on a ventilator for months, right?
Speaker:Okay, well, that's, so being unvaccinated, having had the disease, does that make
Speaker:your chances of hospitalisation far less?
Speaker:Um, if he's had Delta and he catches Omicron, probably not.
Speaker:If his head on the economy catches a vibe, Delta, probably not.
Speaker:Deep throat, do some homework in the meantime before you come on on that one.
Speaker:Might need your help.
Speaker:But, you know, it's things like, um, for example, people coming in overseas who
Speaker:are having to quarantine for two weeks.
Speaker:Meanwhile, people who are already here and we know have got COVID,
Speaker:we're saying, oh, one week's enough.
Speaker:Like this, and that's clearly a bizarre inconsistency.
Speaker:Like.
Speaker:So we are really in the realm where a lot of these rules have to start
Speaker:changing, I think, and Alright, let's bring in some consistency.
Speaker:Enough with the cough up.
Speaker:You know, working in airports, I was so expecting to see much better management of
Speaker:the vaccination status, the requirements, the PCR tests, and of course we didn't.
Speaker:There's not been a single police check on me or any of the passengers
Speaker:in any of the flights I've done.
Speaker:Not a single one.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So I think there is a case for procedural fairness.
Speaker:We do need a consistent line, so fine, but we're not actually demonstrating
Speaker:that in Australia or anywhere else.
Speaker:So I really don't see why we have to either make Ol Mate a martyr
Speaker:or Yeah, I think it's great.
Speaker:He used some of his power to call out the procedural unfairness and the
Speaker:clock, clock ups that keep happening.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Plenty of other people, like, I can see in the chats, plenty of other people
Speaker:who, like, have suffered some unfairness or had to do things a particular way.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So from a health management perspective, it's still a good idea to force people
Speaker:to be vaccinated and just having had the disease really, uh, uh, is
Speaker:a, it's, it's a different thing to having been vaccinated in terms of.
Speaker:our health management process, it seems.
Speaker:So the vaccination is a known dose with a known outcome.
Speaker:The problem with catching the disease is you can test positive,
Speaker:you've had a minor dose.
Speaker:Which gives you limited, um, antibodies, uh, or you could have a major dose,
Speaker:which, yeah, protects you fully.
Speaker:The question is, with a live, uh, infection, we don't know how
Speaker:much, uh, immunity you've got.
Speaker:Whereas it's a lot more consistent with a vaccine where there's a known dose.
Speaker:It's not perfect, but there's a better outcome.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And in the end, it's not a lot to ask.
Speaker:Just get a needle in your arm, hopefully in the right spot in your
Speaker:arm, which we'll get to very soon.
Speaker:So, yeah, okay.
Speaker:So we can sort of come to the conclusion.
Speaker:It's, uh, from a health management perspective for our,
Speaker:uh, country, it's still a good idea to insist on vaccinations.
Speaker:The fact that you've had the disease, too bad.
Speaker:Just get vaccinated.
Speaker:And, really, if we allow him to stay, then, for consistency, we
Speaker:should be saying, um, yeah, otherwise we're opening the floodgates
Speaker:to everybody in that situation.
Speaker:So, uh Just on that point on procedural fairness and proper systems, Bernard
Speaker:Tomic is on Twitter at the moment.
Speaker:Uh, he let rip to one of the Tennis Australia officials because he's
Speaker:pretty sure he just lost his tennis match and he reckons he absolutely
Speaker:will have contracted COVID.
Speaker:And he found it absolutely appalling that the only thing that was protecting,
Speaker:um, He's frozen again, Trevor.
Speaker:No, we can hear you.
Speaker:Um, perfect.
Speaker:The only thing that was, that, the only protection in place was the rapid
Speaker:antigen PECR test or anything else.
Speaker:Right, so he's saying, so he contracted COVID on a tennis court
Speaker:by a tennis player, and that's what, and that's what's costing the game.
Speaker:Oh, during the game he contracted it.
Speaker:I'm not sure about that, I think, I've heard lame excuses
Speaker:for losing a tennis match.
Speaker:But he does make the same point is we've got to have some consistency,
Speaker:we've got to have a proper system, we've got to, you know.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And We won't have to practice Jopovich now, anyway.
Speaker:In, uh, in the chat room, um, what have we got?
Speaker:Um, uh, Steel Wolf said Shay is a bot, everybody look busy.
Speaker:That's when you disappeared.
Speaker:Uh, Die Straights is a good one.
Speaker:The right thing to do is the opposite of whatever the prime marketer thinks.
Speaker:That's, that's a very good Die Straights.
Speaker:I like that.
Speaker:Um, Watley says the right thing to do is to boot him out.
Speaker:David says I live in Victoria.
Speaker:Everyone I work with thinks he should be thrown out.
Speaker:Victorians will stop following any guidelines if he stays.
Speaker:So, um, that's a good point.
Speaker:I mean, here in Queensland, we've been largely immune from all of this stuff.
Speaker:Immune's not the right word, but you know what I mean.
Speaker:And, um, but yeah, people have gone through a lot in places like Victoria and
Speaker:have thought that others are sidestepping it, uh, and gaming the system.
Speaker:Uh, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker:So, oh well, um There we go.
Speaker:So, let's introduce Deep Throat and I'll bring him in now.
Speaker:So, Deep Throat, you're live on air.
Speaker:Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker:And have you got your microphone on?
Speaker:Because I can't hear you.
Speaker:You're talking away and You, um, you keep talking and I'll tell you when I
Speaker:can hear you, Deep Throat, because I can't hear you at all at this stage.
Speaker:So, allow access to How's that?
Speaker:How's that?
Speaker:That's better.
Speaker:We can hear you, Deep Throat.
Speaker:Hello, everyone.
Speaker:For the third time.
Speaker:Good to have you back on, uh, Deep Throat.
Speaker:Now, the reason for talking to you is you described a situation to
Speaker:me where you were in a pharmacy watching somebody get vaccinated.
Speaker:Do you want to tell the story and what your thoughts are about that?
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, I will.
Speaker:I just thought maybe I'd give people a little bit of background.
Speaker:At one stage I was, um, running, or my team, I was part of a team running a
Speaker:vaccination, um, um, system in one state in a developing country, so, and it
Speaker:was a nightmare trying to get vaccines to rural areas, um, in poor areas in
Speaker:India, um, and keep the cold chain going.
Speaker:So, um, it's, it's, you know, in that chain where you're getting
Speaker:vaccines out, it only takes one little hiccup for it to all go wrong.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So, and, uh, so anyway, getting back to my story, which I told Trevor about, um,
Speaker:Um, I was at my local pharmacy and, uh, and he was really busy because he was
Speaker:doing some vaccinations with Moderna.
Speaker:And I was thinking to myself, oh, maybe Moderna might be better than getting
Speaker:the Pfizer because I sort of, you know, was booking in for my booster
Speaker:and Pfizer was going to be it and I was sort of tossing up that sort of thing.
Speaker:And then he went off into his little sort of cupboard, um, area
Speaker:to, um, uh, to do the vaccine.
Speaker:And then he comes out with, uh, with this and after giving them vaccine to this.
Speaker:The woman and, uh, and my heart sort of froze because I saw where,
Speaker:where he'd done the vaccine.
Speaker:It was definitely suboptimal, um, and not really This is where the band
Speaker:aid was placed on the person's arm.
Speaker:Yeah, the band aid was placed.
Speaker:He shared a nice band aid on there.
Speaker:Something like, I've just had COVID or something.
Speaker:I can't really read it myself.
Speaker:It mentions COVID, so, um, it is a little bit above the insertion of the deltoid
Speaker:muscle there, but not, not very much.
Speaker:And, uh, um, it's It's supposed to be an intramuscular injection, and
Speaker:there are probably a few muscular fibres there as you can see from the
Speaker:anatomy book there, but not many.
Speaker:Okay, so on the screen, dear listener.
Speaker:So, you were in the pharmacy and you just sort of surreptitiously took a
Speaker:photo of a shelf and you just happened to capture this arm in the background.
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:It was just a sheer accident that this arm just happened to appear in the
Speaker:shot as I was taking a photo of the instructions on some medications there.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:So you just happened to have, yes, so on the screen to your
Speaker:listener is the arm in question.
Speaker:And the spot where the injection was is very, very high up
Speaker:compared to where it should be.
Speaker:Is that what we're saying?
Speaker:No, no, it's in the middle there.
Speaker:It's where the band aid is.
Speaker:Oh, hang on.
Speaker:Let me see.
Speaker:See the band aid?
Speaker:Oh, way over on the edge there.
Speaker:Yeah, well, I can't point it, but it's where the band aid is.
Speaker:So, uh.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:Yeah, dear listener, there is a band aid.
Speaker:Basically we're that, um, yeah, it's way over on the side.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Oh, I'm like, okay, I was looking at a different photo.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So it's around the side from where it should be.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So for those of you who want to know about anatomy, it's an intramuscular injection,
Speaker:the COVID injections, and they're supposed to go into the deltoid muscle.
Speaker:Um, and most people know what the deltoid muscle is, but what they
Speaker:might not know is it inserts actually halfway down the humerus, which is
Speaker:the upper, the bone in the upper arm.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Um, and at that spot, it's mostly tendon, um, as it is where that X
Speaker:is at the top there, where it is, where the origin of the, um, the
Speaker:muscle is, and that's tendon as well.
Speaker:So, if you're injecting it down as low as where he is injecting it, then, um,
Speaker:your chances of hitting muscle are, you know, like, vanishingly small,
Speaker:really, because there's not as much muscle there, it's mostly tendon, so.
Speaker:So I'm, I'm sort of thinking to myself, has this woman had a intra
Speaker:tendon injection, which is nowhere that I know is that's where you're
Speaker:supposed to give her the vaccination.
Speaker:And if you get an injection into the tendon rather than the muscle
Speaker:is it almost useless, is it?
Speaker:Um, well yes, I tried to find out about intra tendon injections
Speaker:and there's nothing to find out because no one does that.
Speaker:So I'm on shaky ground because I can't give you any scientific evidence.
Speaker:I was thinking to myself, that must have really hurt what she hadn't done there.
Speaker:And I'm thinking tomorrow, in the day after, I'm thinking the next day for
Speaker:her, she's going, Oh, gee, that was a terrible, terrible COVID vaccine.
Speaker:It's really hot and red and sore.
Speaker:And so, so yeah, so I went home and I put together this
Speaker:sort of a bit of a info form.
Speaker:And then I went back to the pharmacist and said, Oh, look, um, You know,
Speaker:I don't, I don't want to be mean or anything like that, but I think
Speaker:you gave it in the wrong spot.
Speaker:Oh, okay.
Speaker:Here's, here's, here's it, and, uh, um, I, I think he took it on board,
Speaker:and I'm, I hope he's professional about it, and, uh, and has learned
Speaker:something from that, um, and, uh, he did say that, he did say that, look, you
Speaker:know, you know, people make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from their
Speaker:mistakes, so, so I think he took it in.
Speaker:In good form, really.
Speaker:So, but anyway, that's, that's my story there and, and I got that from,
Speaker:I think that might have been, um, also on the CDC website about, you know,
Speaker:where vaccines are supposed to do and that adverse reaction there, which is.
Speaker:The sort of thing this poor woman might be looking at the
Speaker:day after with, um, inflammation and, uh, and swelling and that.
Speaker:But the other thing is, um, there's a good chance, you know, that it
Speaker:hasn't taken, you know, as a vaccine.
Speaker:She thinks she's had a booster or whatever it was and she's fine.
Speaker:Um, if it doesn't go into the muscle where there's a good va, you know,
Speaker:vascular, um, vascularization of that tissue, then it hangs around a
Speaker:bit in the subcutaneous tissue and therefore it will tend to get denatured.
Speaker:Um, and therefore might not have as much effect as it should have.
Speaker:So, so.
Speaker:Here I'm thinking, like, there's been, what, well over 100 years of vaccine
Speaker:development and, you know, we've had this massive thing on, on, you know,
Speaker:genetics and genetic engineering and they've got this vaccine done in the
Speaker:Pfizer labs and they've got it out and they've gone all the way through here
Speaker:and then some pharmacist gives it in the wrong spot and I'm going, oh wow,
Speaker:you know, like, gee, come on, come on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Every step of the chain has to be in place, as you say.
Speaker:Every step.
Speaker:There's only need one, one thing has to go wrong and, and, and you're done.
Speaker:And, uh, and I've seen that happen.
Speaker:Now, some places take this very seriously, the positioning.
Speaker:Deep Throat.
Speaker:Tell that story as well.
Speaker:You know how when you get your, you know, you've had your COVID vaccine
Speaker:and probably on the first one you get that sheet, or hopefully you haven't,
Speaker:and you've got to tick the boxes.
Speaker:No, I don't have this, I don't have this, I don't have that.
Speaker:And on that sheet there's a particular condition.
Speaker:Unfortunately, my wife has one of those conditions, rare conditions,
Speaker:where she can't have the vaccine.
Speaker:And so, we were sweating on this because her immunologist, um, was
Speaker:saying, Look, if you get COVID, it's probably going to kill you.
Speaker:If you get the vaccine, there's no good chance of killing you.
Speaker:So, we were sort of in this terrible situation.
Speaker:But, what they did was at the Royal Brisbane Hospital here in Brisbane,
Speaker:um, they, um, opened up a specialist vaccination clinic for people who have
Speaker:problems with vaccine, vaccination, um, to see if they can get rounded and help them.
Speaker:So, so her immunologist You know, referred her along to this vaccination
Speaker:clinic and she went through the whole process and got the different vaccines
Speaker:tested to see which would be the safest and then, you know, holding her breast,
Speaker:she goes in there and gets it done.
Speaker:But the interesting thing was when they, um, when she was having it
Speaker:done, the nurse who did it measured out, you know, using the anatomical
Speaker:landmarks and marked where it should go.
Speaker:And she actually did it three times to make sure it was exactly where it
Speaker:should be using the needle that was going to be exactly the right length for
Speaker:her, you know, body, um, body makeup.
Speaker:Um, and, and that's how she had.
Speaker:So, my, I don't know for sure, but I think being a specialist in immunization,
Speaker:um, clinic, they want to get it exactly in the right spot so that you don't
Speaker:get adverse sort of reactions and that.
Speaker:So, I don't think that's necessary for the average, um, Um, Doctor or
Speaker:Pharmacist to do, because you've got a pretty big area there to aim,
Speaker:so it doesn't cause any problems.
Speaker:After that, next week I actually had my booster, you know, so I didn't go to the
Speaker:pharmacist, I decided against Moderna, I'd go for the Pfizer, where I was
Speaker:already booked in, so I went for that, and I waited until I'd had my vaccination
Speaker:and then my booster and I said, I said, look, what do you think about this?
Speaker:And she started laughing when I showed her where the, where the We're the um,
Speaker:you know, the band aid picture and all that and she said, I'm laughing because
Speaker:if I wasn't laughing I'd be crying.
Speaker:And, and then when I got home, I got out, I, I, I got into the front
Speaker:of the mirror and thought, where, you know, where has she gone?
Speaker:Because I had a tiny little band aid on and one of those spotlights.
Speaker:And it was, it was within two millimetres of the exact centre, so.
Speaker:When you've done enough of them, you can just eyeball it and go bang and get
Speaker:it in, so, um I'm surprised that you didn't, before going, market yourself
Speaker:with a pen as to I was going to, but I, I, I, I'm sort of thinking, this
Speaker:is a big insult, really, isn't it?
Speaker:So, I just trusted that going to a doctor was going to be better, but
Speaker:Having said that, you know, I probably just, it was a complete fluke to come
Speaker:across this situation and probably every, let me say, every other pharmacist in
Speaker:Australia is doing the right thing.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well, there you go, dear listener.
Speaker:When you're going for your jab, um, look at the, um, it'll be on the website,
Speaker:it'll be in the show notes, it'll probably be the picture we use for this episode,
Speaker:um, a picture of where it should go.
Speaker:Can I just say one other thing?
Speaker:So, once you invited me on, Trevor, I thought, gee, I'd better do a little
Speaker:bit more research and make sure I'm on solid ground here, and I am.
Speaker:But I came across There's a, there's a, um, website which, and it's done by
Speaker:Melbourne's, Melbourne Vaccination um, Education Centre, and they say how to do
Speaker:vaccines, and, and it's not quite right.
Speaker:You know, I mean, it's, I'm going, hang on, their picture, you know,
Speaker:they've got this picture and it doesn't quite add up to the, you know,
Speaker:what they're saying in the words.
Speaker:So, so.
Speaker:I've got some sympathy for the, uh, the pharmacist, because maybe he was
Speaker:looking at that and, and he's gone online, he's possibly gone online and
Speaker:just looked at things and, and made his own decision, I don't know, does
Speaker:the Pharmacy Guild, maybe there's a pharmacist, pharmacist listening to this
Speaker:right now, do they give, um, education, instruction, they should do, but, uh,
Speaker:It's very easy, you know, with Mr.
Speaker:Google to sort of get on the wrong track, well, yeah.
Speaker:I think I read somewhere in the UK with the NHS that they avoided
Speaker:long queues because they asked for volunteers, for people to come and
Speaker:be trained in how to give injections.
Speaker:And so A lot of the significant number of injections were done by people
Speaker:who had no other medical training other than how to get an injection.
Speaker:And they would be potentially Mum said it was a bunch of middle aged, um,
Speaker:retire oh sorry, middle class retirees.
Speaker:Who were all having a wonderful time.
Speaker:She said it was wonderfully efficient and she was in and out.
Speaker:They didn't even hold her for 15 minutes.
Speaker:It was in, get your vaccine and then you're out again.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And I can imagine somebody like that could actually be even better than
Speaker:a fully trained, you know, nurse or medical professional because With
Speaker:the right attitude, they just do what they're told without any preconceived
Speaker:ideas that they know better.
Speaker:So, I think I mentioned before in the podcast, Deep Throat, about
Speaker:they, um, they surveyed people in a hospital, uh, how to do CPR correctly.
Speaker:And there was, like, the registrar, the nurse, there was the cardiac surgeon,
Speaker:there was the, the ward psychologist, and a whole range of people who were
Speaker:Who were basically given material on how to do it correctly and then
Speaker:were tested on how well they did.
Speaker:And the person who performed best was the psychologist, because they,
Speaker:the psychologists would just do what they were told according to the
Speaker:instructions and follow it to the letter.
Speaker:Whereas the other people thought, oh, I've heard all this before, I remember
Speaker:back in uni days we were told to do this or do that and had these preconceived
Speaker:ideas that affected their performance.
Speaker:Which I don't say.
Speaker:An untrained person, uh, who just, with the right attitude,
Speaker:may be the best person?
Speaker:Oh, I think there's a lot to be said for that, and also for pharmacists
Speaker:and, you know, doctors and nurses.
Speaker:This is a small part of their day, in a sense, you know, doing this sort of thing.
Speaker:They're more focused on other things, so I think you're right.
Speaker:Um, just going back to that vaccination service that I was involved with and
Speaker:effectively running, um, We, we, we trained up health workers, which was
Speaker:based on the barefoot doctor model.
Speaker:And so what you were saying was correct.
Speaker:We just said, these are the things that we want you to do.
Speaker:The rest of it, you make sure you get them to a doctor or a nurse.
Speaker:But in your, it was with refugees, in your refugee settlements, um,
Speaker:this is what we want you to do.
Speaker:And, um, and I think you're right.
Speaker:I think, you know, they were just focused on this.
Speaker:This is all they had to do.
Speaker:Make sure kids got their vaccinations.
Speaker:You know, and doing, you know, and chronic diseases, making sure they've
Speaker:got their medications and that.
Speaker:And I think you're right.
Speaker:I think they did a really good job and stayed within that focus.
Speaker:And for them, that was the biggest part of their work, not
Speaker:a little part of their work.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Just one other thing.
Speaker:You mentioned earlier about the size of the needle.
Speaker:Would that mean that somebody who's particularly large, either muscular
Speaker:or just fat, should have a longer needle than somebody who's skinny?
Speaker:Well, absolutely, and if you go on, you know, various websites like the CDC
Speaker:and, and probably the Australian one, so I just can't remember where they
Speaker:are, they actually give a, um, there's a guidelines in terms of tables of what
Speaker:size needle you should, you should give.
Speaker:So if you've got a, like a neonate, you know, a newborn baby, you know,
Speaker:would be using a great needle.
Speaker:You know, big needles and that, and uh, and, and, and interesting when you think
Speaker:about things like that because neonate, you use a fairly, um, you know, not, not
Speaker:very long needle, but then when you get to the toddlers and that, they're actually
Speaker:quite chubby, so you've got to use quite a thick needle, and then when you get
Speaker:to the kids that are running around, you know, they, they become thin again, and
Speaker:you've got to use a thinner needle again.
Speaker:But if you get a really big, beefy guy, you know, you've
Speaker:got to use a bigger needle.
Speaker:So there are guidelines in the size of the needle, too, you know.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:I've never paid any attention as to whether they sized me up and
Speaker:went, you're obviously a number six or a number ten or something.
Speaker:In your case, Trevor, I don't think it was the length of the needle,
Speaker:I think it was the thick one.
Speaker:They said, here's the biggest, thickest one we've got and let's
Speaker:do three of them at the same time.
Speaker:Well, funnily enough, I'm one of these people who faints when I get
Speaker:a needle, like just uncontrollably.
Speaker:So, whenever I get a needle, I always lie down.
Speaker:And so, even at these places with the vaccination centres.
Speaker:Uh, where everybody else is sitting in these long corridors of banks of people,
Speaker:I'd said, Show me where the bed is, cause I'm gonna lie down when you do this.
Speaker:So, um, yeah, so For something like that, it's not the time to be embarrassed.
Speaker:Because if you fall over and crack your head open, you know, you're in a bigger
Speaker:Spot a bobber, so it's not, yeah, just call your bride and tell them, look,
Speaker:I've got a problem, and they won't even think second, they won't even worry
Speaker:about, you know, it's part of their job.
Speaker:Yeah, no, they're very, they're very encouraging.
Speaker:Whenever I say that, um, for any needle, they say, oh, glad you told me, of
Speaker:course, lie down here, like they're Yeah, because you're right, they don't
Speaker:want you fainting, so yeah, and it's much more comfortable to lie down, so.
Speaker:Right, well Joe O'Shea, any questions for Deep Throat before we sign
Speaker:him out to his next appearance?
Speaker:No, it's Yeah, yeah, same.
Speaker:Likewise, likewise.
Speaker:So all the best there, you know, for 2022.
Speaker:All right, Deep Throat.
Speaker:Keep up the good work.
Speaker:All right, we'll have you on more often.
Speaker:Good luck.
Speaker:See you, Deep Throat.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:Oh, there you go.
Speaker:The crackly voice, all back around to Deep Throat there.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:There we go.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:I love the fact that he took a photograph and then went back the next day and spoke
Speaker:to the pharmacist and said, pharmacist and said, Oh, this might not be right.
Speaker:How good's that?
Speaker:That's so good.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Okay, you're still in the chat room.
Speaker:You reckon Novak should stay or go?
Speaker:Let us know.
Speaker:Um, Watley the Wizard says, All hail Deep Throat.
Speaker:I agree.
Speaker:And, uh, um, David says, I had my booster on Saturday.
Speaker:I think the nurse got a bullseye.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:All right, um,
Speaker:there was this fake tweet.
Speaker:There's, there's lots of fake Scott Morrison Twitter accounts.
Speaker:And this, this fake one said, um, when I bump into everyday
Speaker:Australians at the shops, the one thing I always hear is, when are we
Speaker:going to buy more heavy artillery?
Speaker:And today, that's what we've done.
Speaker:3.
Speaker:5 billion dollars worth of new tanks.
Speaker:Words fail me on these guys.
Speaker:Well, the only thing you can say is tanks for that.
Speaker:You could say that, Joe, you could.
Speaker:Tanks.
Speaker:You know, the last time we used a tank, I've got it here in an article
Speaker:I read, um, We haven't deployed a tank in combat since the Vietnam War.
Speaker:Like, the whole anti China rhetoric is, we're talking ships, we're talking
Speaker:missiles, we're talking planes.
Speaker:We're not talking tanks.
Speaker:Well, when we have to defend the Brisbane line.
Speaker:This is just toys for bullies, keeping the colonels and the generals happy.
Speaker:Um, so from the Americans, we've agreed to purchase 120 tanks, um, and 3.
Speaker:5 billion worth.
Speaker:Um, uh, the tanks will replace 59 Abrams MIA 1s.
Speaker:Which were bought in 2007, but have not seen combat.
Speaker:It's 15 years, they're old.
Speaker:Yeah, and the fact that they haven't seen combat?
Speaker:It's a deterrent, you know, that's just to prove that they worked.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Chief of Army Lieutenant General Rick Burr said tanks and combat engineering vehicles
Speaker:were essential to Australia's ability to contribute to combat that could be
Speaker:integrated with forces of other countries.
Speaker:Because of their versatility, tanks can be used in a wide range
Speaker:of scenarios, environments and levels of conflict, he said.
Speaker:Honestly.
Speaker:And, in the same week, a few days later, M1A1.
Speaker:Thank you, Craig Peat.
Speaker:Um, Craig, what's your opinion on the tanks?
Speaker:Is that a good idea or not?
Speaker:I think Craig may have some expertise in matters of this type.
Speaker:Um, In the same week, Dutton said, uh, he urged celebrities and athletes
Speaker:to use their star status to draw attention to China's treatment of women.
Speaker:Warning that Beijing is escaping scrutiny despite the plight of
Speaker:Chinese tennis player, Peng Shui.
Speaker:Not that the government has got any problem with women and the treatment
Speaker:of women, but he's telling celebrities.
Speaker:Or even the treatment of tennis players.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Or Yes indeed.
Speaker:Yes,
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:What has this government got to do?
Speaker:Like, I know what I read.
Speaker:I mean, I do read NewsCorp stuff and I do read Fairfax stuff, and I
Speaker:can, this, can these guys get away with it with this sort of nonsense?
Speaker:Continually Can they?
Speaker:It it, it'll just be so interesting to see.
Speaker:So, um, John Lord wrote.
Speaker:I find it impossible to imagine that the Australian people could be so
Speaker:gullible as to elect for a fourth term a government that has performed so
Speaker:miserably in the previous three, and has amongst its members some of the
Speaker:most devious, suspicious and corrupt men and women, that they just might.
Speaker:Well, you know what Labor's like.
Speaker:They're always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Speaker:Even they couldn't, surely, in this case.
Speaker:Surely.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Sad day paper, editorial, Scott Morrison's smile is like a measuring
Speaker:tape, it lengthens as he decides what it is he can get away with.
Speaker:The calibration is sometimes off, but this does not affect his confidence.
Speaker:Before he speaks, he sucks air hard through his nose.
Speaker:One last assessment, as if to smell the credulity of the room.
Speaker:Some people are good writers, that's good writing there.
Speaker:So I'm hanging my hat on my hopes on, yeah, the Batuta, the Chaser, the Shovel,
Speaker:every comedian in Australia, um, lots of people just, there is no shortage
Speaker:of, of things to poke fun at with these groups, so, with this government, so
Speaker:I'm just hanging my hat on people.
Speaker:Reading that stuff along the way and getting the idea.
Speaker:So, like, just to give you an example, some of the great headlines from,
Speaker:for example, the Batuta Advocate.
Speaker:So just going by the headline of some of their articles, um, Sleep Deprived
Speaker:Nurse Relieved To Hear Future Is Now In Safe Hands With 75 Diesel Powered Tanks.
Speaker:Um, Scotty Spent 3.
Speaker:5 Billion On Tanks To Distract From How He Treated Novact.
Speaker:To distract from rat shortage.
Speaker:Uh, Desperate Scotty informs media that Yokovich just threw children
Speaker:overboard from Quarantine Hotel.
Speaker:Future lockdowns all but confirmed after PM declares they'll never happen again.
Speaker:That sort of stuff you would hope would cut through.
Speaker:Let's, let's hope so.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I doubt it because the people, they're preaching to the choir.
Speaker:The people who believe it are the people who are going to be reading that.
Speaker:And the people who don't believe it won't read it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But surely the older crowd who vote Conservative are dying off in the
Speaker:last three years and the younger ones have come in who couldn't vote in
Speaker:the last three years, the 16 and 17 year olds from the previous election.
Speaker:Hopefully it'll change.
Speaker:Now, you saw the, the tests for COVID, like people waiting five, six, eight.
Speaker:10 hours for a test?
Speaker:I looked at it and thought, are you crazy?
Speaker:Did you look at that and think, this is madness?
Speaker:What are you doing?
Speaker:Or did you think, good lord abiding citizen?
Speaker:No, I thought they were crazy.
Speaker:I went and got a test on the 30th of December And it was, oh my god,
Speaker:the queues are gonna be ridiculous.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:And they had Three parallel queues going, and we were done in 15 minutes.
Speaker:I was impressed.
Speaker:If you'd arrived and they said, join the queue, it'll be three or
Speaker:four hours, would you have stayed?
Speaker:Probably not.
Speaker:Shay, did you think it was amazing that people would line up for those hours?
Speaker:For a test?
Speaker:I think, I think maybe they didn't know there might be other places, or
Speaker:I think they, I think they were just probably desperate, found, found their
Speaker:need to travel or their need to find out their test results urgently and
Speaker:just weren't thinking, like, um, Like, I can imagine if you had an overseas
Speaker:flight and you needed it, you had to, or even, but there couldn't have been that
Speaker:many people who needed it for a flight.
Speaker:I just, it just amazed me.
Speaker:People do just join queues.
Speaker:That's another funny thing about working in an airport.
Speaker:They'll queue up at check in places where there's obviously no people.
Speaker:They'll, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker:People, people, people will queue.
Speaker:But I had a similar experience.
Speaker:I went to get a test on the 29th just near my house.
Speaker:Drive through, 15 minutes.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, I'm surprised people aren't Googling other places.
Speaker:But, I'm not that surprised.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:They do the right thing.
Speaker:So they just get in the queue.
Speaker:And a lot of the news was saying, like, doesn't matter where you go,
Speaker:you're going to be queuing for hours, you're going to be waiting a long time.
Speaker:So it's been like, oh well, just pick one.
Speaker:I just could not sit in a car for four or five hours.
Speaker:I mean, what did these people do when they needed to go to the toilet?
Speaker:What, did they all have a piss bottle in the car or something?
Speaker:Did they, like, what did they do?
Speaker:I just, I presume there's facilities there for the staff.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Anyway, um, so do you listen to just, uh, my My two daughters contracted COVID,
Speaker:they were living in Brisbane, I was on the Gold Coast at the time, so we'd been
Speaker:out, and, uh, two grandchildren got it, and so they had sort of just regular flu
Speaker:symptoms for a day, and over and done with pretty quickly, so that was good.
Speaker:Pretty sure my wife, um, she had classic flu symptoms, plus, Loss of
Speaker:smell and taste and given the lack of the flu, the normal flu in the
Speaker:community, pretty sure she had it and, but we couldn't buy a rat anywhere.
Speaker:Uh, tried as hard as we wanted but we, we Signed up to the pharmacy when
Speaker:we were down the Gold Coast who said, yep, you'll have one in two days time,
Speaker:but they kept delaying it, delaying it because of logistics problems.
Speaker:And in the end, they just gave up and said, sorry, we thought we'd be able
Speaker:to provide one, just can't do it.
Speaker:So, so we'll probably end, um, of course.
Speaker:My wife and I are sleeping in the same bed and sharing lots of the same area,
Speaker:and if she had it, it's hard to imagine I didn't get it, but I've had absolutely
Speaker:zero symptoms, nothing at all, not a skerrick of anything, which is entirely
Speaker:possible because I'm triple vaccinated, so, um, so yeah, so if I had to place
Speaker:a bet, I would say my wife Um, almost certainly got it, and then therefore
Speaker:I most certainly must have got it, and didn't even know, so, that's what's going
Speaker:on in this household, so, um, and, it's interesting, where you'll have a lot of
Speaker:people like us, who were not able to get access to rats, who will never really
Speaker:be sure if we actually had it or not.
Speaker:I find that bizarre.
Speaker:I've been listening to my English friends talking about LFTs for the last two years.
Speaker:Which are lateral flow tests, and they've been given away for free.
Speaker:I mean, to the point where friends in the UK were talking about posting some to me.
Speaker:Uh, and for some reason we've called them rats and we're
Speaker:not giving them away for free.
Speaker:It seems like they're coming out of everybody's ears in Europe.
Speaker:There's so many they don't know what to do with them.
Speaker:Yeah, um, Julia says they had to wait for around five hours.
Speaker:You do what you have to do, everyone pitches in.
Speaker:Like, Julia, I reckon if we were in COVID Zero, I would've, like, at that
Speaker:point where we were trying to keep a lid on it and aim for COVID Zero,
Speaker:I possibly would've then, um, but, gee, when the cat's out of the bag
Speaker:like it has obviously been, I just, I just didn't see the point in it.
Speaker:Um, but, good on these people for, And you for doing the right thing, but I
Speaker:just sort of think, wow, that's, that's a commitment, um, to me when it was like,
Speaker:the whole thing is just so prevalent and is, is now the cat's out of the
Speaker:bag, what sort of, what was the point?
Speaker:So, and Julia says, yeah, it may be different now.
Speaker:So Julia, if the same thing happened today, he, um, he
Speaker:wouldn't do it by the sounds of it.
Speaker:So, um.
Speaker:And, and, you know, it's very different when you're talking
Speaker:about getting a vaccine.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Where the effects are going to be long term and long lasting.
Speaker:But as you, yeah, under the current circumstances, if you
Speaker:get a positive test, so what?
Speaker:Really, is it going to make any difference to your behaviour?
Speaker:No, that's right.
Speaker:You've just got to assume you've got it and act according to it.
Speaker:And, um, yeah.
Speaker:You know, what happened to that army guy who was trotted out by the Prime Minister
Speaker:and would appear standing beside him.
Speaker:as our logistics expert because everyone knows the Army's really good for
Speaker:helping you organize your logistics.
Speaker:Yeah, I haven't seen him for six to eight weeks, , and I reckon the
Speaker:next time I see him, it will be when Scotty throws him under a bus,
Speaker:when he blames him for, uh, the poor rollout.
Speaker:Okay, now.
Speaker:The whole kerfuffle then.
Speaker:Prior to, in the world prior to Novak Djokovic, we had the whole conundrum.
Speaker:Not only the lack of rats, but the cost.
Speaker:And people saying these things should be provided for free.
Speaker:And what did the government say?
Speaker:Well, Simon Birmingham said, one of our cabinet ministers, In partnership with the
Speaker:states, our government is providing COVID 19 tests free to those who need them.
Speaker:Typical of Labor, Albanese says they should be free everywhere without knowing
Speaker:what it would cost or considering the wasteful hoarding it would generate.
Speaker:Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Speaker:And, um, that independent journalist, if you like, Michael, um, forget his name,
Speaker:but he can tell you how much it'll cost.
Speaker:He measured it up against the tanks, because it would cost 230 million.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yet how many tests.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Yeah, that left us a good bunch of money left over.
Speaker:Well, if you're buying them wholesale at cost, that couldn't
Speaker:be more than a dollar each.
Speaker:25 million Australians, 10 each, 250 million dollars.
Speaker:Like, it's Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker:Duh!
Speaker:Yeah, what, one a week for 10 weeks?
Speaker:Typical of Labor.
Speaker:Albanese says these should be free everywhere.
Speaker:But you know what?
Speaker:Labor was slow on it.
Speaker:Like, Albany They've got a spurious plot!
Speaker:When they came out, when this was being argued, it took days.
Speaker:Albanese initially said, I think they should be affordable.
Speaker:But he did not say they should be free.
Speaker:You're aware of that show?
Speaker:You saw that and just thought, what the hell are you doing?
Speaker:And in the absence of him, I must say, the independents like Joe Dyer for
Speaker:Boothby and the ones in Sydney have been out in force on Twitter, doing
Speaker:a really good job of, um, cleverly phrasing their complaints, you know?
Speaker:So, another opportunity, by the way.
Speaker:Dire Straits in the chat room says, the reason we haven't seen that army
Speaker:dude is he was out shopping for tanks.
Speaker:That's a vehicle.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:And Alison, uh, with the 30 percent positive rates for PCR, PCR tests, uh,
Speaker:she wouldn't be caught dead in a queue.
Speaker:If you're trying to catch COVID, that's where you'd go, isn't it?
Speaker:Oh, I just find that extraordinary.
Speaker:And, you know, surely people can see that we gave 38 billion to businesses
Speaker:like Gerry Harvey who didn't need it.
Speaker:And we're not prepared just to give out tests, and people can see, well
Speaker:that's what happens in other countries.
Speaker:This is not extraordinary, so um.
Speaker:Ah, surely people won't forget, please.
Speaker:I know it's going to be five months away.
Speaker:No, I think the impact has been widely felt.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, as this guy said on Twitter, thank goodness the government was smart and
Speaker:didn't give out the free, the much more expensive vaccinations and PCR tests.
Speaker:It's true, like these things are so obvious that you just sort of The
Speaker:statement is just so weird and so left field that the obvious misses you.
Speaker:Like, a PCR test is free, a vaccination is free, why isn't a rat free?
Speaker:Like It's a slippery slope, we're out of trouble.
Speaker:Uh, okay, um, okay, what else have we got here, um, spending, uh, oh Joe,
Speaker:you've been battling freethinkers.
Speaker:What's that mean?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Um, so, historically, freethinking was, uh, really a, um, a secular movement.
Speaker:It was all about freedom from religious dogma, and was Interesting was
Speaker:possibly, um, more centrist, so not left leaning, not right leaning, but seems
Speaker:to have become very, very libertarian recently and seems to be a hotbed
Speaker:for conspiracy theories about COVID.
Speaker:QAnon and Stop the Steal was probably the first signs of it and has become
Speaker:very, very jump on the latest bandwagon.
Speaker:So if there's a anti vaxx conspiracy going around, I tend to see it there
Speaker:first and Um, they are dogmatically certain that their, their scientists,
Speaker:their cherry picked scientists know more than the thousands and thousands
Speaker:of scientists who work in the field.
Speaker:And you're wading into the comment, uh, forums and, and, and trying
Speaker:a few punches out there, Joe.
Speaker:Um, it, it's less around trying to change the minds of the people
Speaker:whose minds have been made up.
Speaker:It's not letting the bullshit go unchallenged.
Speaker:for, you know, there's a thousand people in there, there's ten regular commenters.
Speaker:Uh, it's for the nine hundred and ninety people who are sat reading, so that they
Speaker:don't see the bullshit go unchallenged.
Speaker:Uh, and I did get a comment back the other day which said, thank you, you
Speaker:know, if it hadn't been for people like you putting reasonable arguments back, I
Speaker:would have fallen down the rabbit hole.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:And that's good.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and, you know, um, it, it really is.
Speaker:Sometimes it feels frustrating just dealing with the same
Speaker:bullshit over and over.
Speaker:Um, but it is worthwhile not to change the minds of those people
Speaker:who are dogmatic, but for the silent majority who are listening.
Speaker:Well, I applaud you for your efforts, Joe, just as I applauded deep throat
Speaker:for, uh, visiting the pharmacist and telling him how to do the needle, getting
Speaker:off your butt and doing something.
Speaker:That's what it's about.
Speaker:Joe, you're going to get off your butt and do something with Qantas,
Speaker:but we can't talk about that probably.
Speaker:We have to work out my best argument.
Speaker:Hey, uh, in the chat room, we said earlier, if you're late to the chat
Speaker:room, um, know that Jogovich, should we kick him out or let him stay?
Speaker:Just let us know what your thought is there.
Speaker:Be just, I'm curious to see what the response is.
Speaker:So let me know your vote on that.
Speaker:I'd really like to get 100 comments on this episode, uh, we get a
Speaker:little indicator pops up if we do.
Speaker:We shouldn't be too far off it, I think.
Speaker:So, okay.
Speaker:Um, Spending has crashed, so there is a graph which, oh, this was put out
Speaker:by ANZ, Observed Spending, and I think that uses credit card information
Speaker:and other stuff, and essentially, um, after, um, in the last few
Speaker:weeks, retail spending has absolutely plummeted in Australia, so if you've
Speaker:got a small business relying on people buying stuff, It's been tough times.
Speaker:So, New South Wales, I think, is finding that, um, while they don't, well, they've
Speaker:relaxed the rules in terms of businesses operating, the businesses themselves are
Speaker:having to close because their staff are all sick and people aren't coming anyway.
Speaker:Like, our economy has really taken a hit.
Speaker:In the last few weeks, if you're involved in that side of the
Speaker:world, let me know in the comments.
Speaker:If you've got a small business that tries to sell stuff, you
Speaker:must have found things tough.
Speaker:Even people say, I've got friends, uh, Jewish community in Melbourne, uh, lots
Speaker:of their friends are medical specialists.
Speaker:And they're doing it tough, because all elective surgery has been cancelled,
Speaker:so, um, with everybody, even though you've got a high income, you invariably
Speaker:create expenses that more or less match your income, and when the tap's
Speaker:turned off, you're in trouble, and, um, they said something like at the
Speaker:Jewish school, um, that they go to.
Speaker:There was an extraordinary number of defaults on payment of, um, school fees
Speaker:that they hadn't seen ever before, um, I think she was quoting a quarter to a
Speaker:third but I'm not sure on that but, uh, yeah, so even in the top end, medical
Speaker:specialists, for example, struggling because can't do elective surgery.
Speaker:Can't get money.
Speaker:So, fuel in chat room says let him stay.
Speaker:Let me know your votes.
Speaker:Um, oh, what else have we got?
Speaker:Just examples of media bias.
Speaker:Um, I saw this one, which So this is two different papers on the same day.
Speaker:Uh, the Sydney Morning Herald.
Speaker:Um, well actually I'll start with Victor.
Speaker:Yeah, Sydney Morning Herald.
Speaker:On that day there were 22 and a half thousand new cases.
Speaker:And who's the SME churned by?
Speaker:Yes, Fairfax.
Speaker:Which, who's running Fairfax?
Speaker:And nine, Peter Costello.
Speaker:He's head of that now, isn't he?
Speaker:So, they've gone, yeah.
Speaker:So, on the day that 22, 500 new cases came out in New South Wales, the
Speaker:headline in the Sydney Morning Herald was, Hope bursts through COVID cloud
Speaker:as Sydney rings in the new year.
Speaker:Meanwhile, in Victoria, which had a third that number, it had 7, 700
Speaker:cases, the age, the headline was, New infection surge to an all time high
Speaker:as state hits 7, 442 COVID cases.
Speaker:These, these are the sort of everyday, um, media bias messages
Speaker:that come through that, uh, just subliminally work on people.
Speaker:Um.
Speaker:Oh, over the holidays, got a very nice donation from Dave S.
Speaker:Thank you Dave for that very generous donation, much appreciated.
Speaker:If you would like to donate to this podcast and help.
Speaker:Keep the lights on, head to the website, you'll see a link for donations, Patreon,
Speaker:where you can donate per episode, or if you don't like the idea of that,
Speaker:there's PayPal, so you can do either a one off or a regular donation through
Speaker:that, helps pay the costs, lets me know that you think it's worthwhile.
Speaker:Buy the rum.
Speaker:And it's, and helps pay for the rum, uh.
Speaker:So, mind you, at the rate we're going, we probably won't be all together
Speaker:in this room for quite a while.
Speaker:But, um, there's remote things we can find.
Speaker:So, um, alright.
Speaker:Other things that happened Just quickly, I was talking to my older
Speaker:sister today, and she, and she was just like, the obvious biggest problem
Speaker:Australia has right now is with it.
Speaker:And in parts of England, they did successfully boycott his papers.
Speaker:So, any ideas how the little people Can sort of banish or
Speaker:confront the Rupert problem.
Speaker:I reckon, I reckon people should in, lots of people don't buy it, like, nobody
Speaker:really buys newspapers anymore, but I reckon people should say at a cafe or
Speaker:something, what is that rag doing here?
Speaker:What are you, I'm going to stop buying your coffee if you're
Speaker:going to put that thing here.
Speaker:Um, yeah, maybe that's the way to go.
Speaker:Like, say to them, like, that's I see it at the checkout at Woollies, yeah.
Speaker:Should I be lobbying Woollies to take it away from the checkout?
Speaker:Clearly a waste of time.
Speaker:They're never going to listen to you.
Speaker:But maybe local cafes would.
Speaker:Yeah, maybe.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:And is it really Rupert or is it James?
Speaker:Uh, is there a difference?
Speaker:Well, James is, James is a small Christian.
Speaker:That's the problem.
Speaker:I don't know, whichever one took over.
Speaker:Lachlan Lachlan.
Speaker:Lachlan took over.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Is it Lachlan?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Lachlan took over and he's a mad Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:Christian.
Speaker:He actually believes it.
Speaker:Mm-Hmm.
Speaker:, you know, just, you know, Rupert's just doing a deal with the,
Speaker:with the evangelicals for power.
Speaker:So, so who was worse believes who was worse?
Speaker:The Maxwells or the, the Murdochs.
Speaker:Clearly Murdoch's, way more, far more powerful, far more pervasive, far more
Speaker:organised, like, you know when people talk about Trump As far as we know they
Speaker:weren't smuggling children to Yeah, but his worldwide influence is way
Speaker:worse than Maxwell's, so, when people talk about Trump they go, imagine if
Speaker:there was a guy like Trump, but, who was actually clever and organised.
Speaker:Well you don't have to imagine, it's just, Rupert Murdoch and he
Speaker:decided to do it via a media empire, because it was the most effective.
Speaker:Very weird.
Speaker:Okay, um, let me see.
Speaker:James is Packer's boy.
Speaker:Yeah, um, that's right.
Speaker:James is James Packer.
Speaker:Who's the other one?
Speaker:There's Lachlan and, who's the other one who sort of left the family
Speaker:amongst the Murdochs and is now really writing anti Murdoch stuff?
Speaker:Is he a James as well?
Speaker:I thought so, but maybe not.
Speaker:Yeah, um.
Speaker:Uh, let me see what we've got here in the comments.
Speaker:Uh, uh, Alison wrote a lot, but you didn't, um, you didn't say,
Speaker:Alison, whether you thought Novak should be kicked out or not.
Speaker:I'm interested to know what you think.
Speaker:Um, um, okay.
Speaker:What else have I got here?
Speaker:Um, Tony Blair was knighted.
Speaker:Sir Tony Blair.
Speaker:The guy who's the architect of the Iraq War, one of the main instigators of it,
Speaker:and we know that it was done for bullshit reasons, we know it killed millions
Speaker:of people, and he gets a knighthood.
Speaker:Um, one million Iraqis dead, three million dispossessed.
Speaker:From the, this is from the BBC.
Speaker:The ex Labour leader who was in power from 1997 to 2007 was given the title
Speaker:as the New Year's Honours were awarded.
Speaker:Uh, there's a petition that his role in the Iraq war makes him
Speaker:personally responsible for many deaths and accuses him of war crimes.
Speaker:Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, said, said that Tony
Speaker:Blair had earned a knighthood.
Speaker:And a government minister said it was only right to reward the former Prime Minister
Speaker:who had done many good things for the UK.
Speaker:Um, so he became an Order of the Garter, England's oldest and most
Speaker:senior order of chivalry, and it's the personal choice of the Queen, who has
Speaker:up to 24 knight and lady companions.
Speaker:Uh, current Prime Minister Boris Johnson not involved in the decision.
Speaker:Um, unlike the New Year's Honours List, which is drawn up by the
Speaker:government for the Queen's approval, the Order of the Garter is bestowed
Speaker:as a personal gift by the Queen.
Speaker:And um, um, I thought it was a fairly usual payoff for former Prime ministers.
Speaker:Anyway.
Speaker:It was Bar Stacher.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Wasn't John Major a knighted?
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:Indeed.
Speaker:But when you've started a war like that, Iraq war, at what
Speaker:point, what disqualifies you?
Speaker:Aucklands, yes.
Speaker:Well, indeed, yes.
Speaker:Didn't kill as many people.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Didn't dispossess as many people.
Speaker:The scale was smaller, honestly.
Speaker:And, uh.
Speaker:So he created the war, and he gets a knighthood.
Speaker:Julian Assange exposes the war crimes, facing lifetime in prison.
Speaker:Just wait till Boris gets knighted.
Speaker:And
Speaker:so that's the Queen's personal choice.
Speaker:And did you hear that, um, LNP's state, uh, member, Jared Blaise, um, he wants a
Speaker:new statue for the Queen, um, commissioned to celebrate her 70th year on the throne.
Speaker:With all the shit going on in the world, that's what Jared's wanting to do.
Speaker:It's important.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:We've just named some island in Canberra after her as well.
Speaker:We've named the state after her.
Speaker:He's a devoted monarch.
Speaker:He's also called on the Palaszczuk government to look at naming a public
Speaker:monument after Elizabeth II as well.
Speaker:So that's what keep, that's what keeping Jared Alight awake at night.
Speaker:Now Alison has given her a strong opinion.
Speaker:She's declared him a fuckwit.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:He's the one who actually He was on TV bemoaning the work
Speaker:of the Noosa Temple of Satan.
Speaker:And, uh, taking it all very seriously is a terrible thing.
Speaker:And, uh, in the background, one of his fellow MPs was sort of giggling.
Speaker:And, um, and that was the one that we found out through freedom of,
Speaker:the right to information request.
Speaker:Somebody internally was writing to somebody else internally saying, don't
Speaker:these God botherers ever get sick of doing this, or something like that.
Speaker:So, that's Jared Blayge for you.
Speaker:Um How are we going for time?
Speaker:9.
Speaker:03, um, you guys got anything you want to get off your chest before
Speaker:I think about winding this one up?
Speaker:Have you guys got anything desperate to get off your chest?
Speaker:Um, I was just thinking about the right thing.
Speaker:I don't know about kicking him out or letting him stay being the right thing.
Speaker:One right thing I'd like to see is less discretion for
Speaker:ministers around this stuff.
Speaker:Write a clear policy, get it passed through parliament.
Speaker:It was purposefully designed as all powerful, without any checks and balances.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Especially if you have a friend who's got an au pair that needs a visa.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Limit those types of discretionary powers.
Speaker:Or write a policy that has a clear mandate about when they can be applied.
Speaker:That's the right thing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Uh, okay.
Speaker:Um Oh, actually, there was one other thing I did want to mention,
Speaker:um, there was a business which, now you've heard of employees being
Speaker:sacked for not being vaccinated.
Speaker:Oh, yeah, the Church of Ubuntu.
Speaker:The Church of Ubuntu sacked an employee because she was vaccinated.
Speaker:Yeah, well, let's put it this way there.
Speaker:Grasp on, um, science is Fairly limited.
Speaker:They're heavily into the alternative medicine.
Speaker:Sorry, so called alternative medicine, which gets abbreviated to SCAM.
Speaker:So this woman was working for the church, which runs a wellness clinic, that
Speaker:sells medicinal hemp products, and she was a client consultant for 12 months,
Speaker:but she was dismissed after her boss found out she had received the jab.
Speaker:A letter from the church's vice president praised her work and said
Speaker:getting a vaccination was inconsistent with its religious teachings.
Speaker:It's, uh, in their words, conscientiously and deliberately
Speaker:with intent is in contradiction with our constitution and contrary
Speaker:to our position on what is required of us by our Lord God and Creator.
Speaker:And, no doubt, this is a genuinely held religious belief
Speaker:and therefore Religious freedom.
Speaker:Religious freedom.
Speaker:And it doesn't really matter whether it's complete nonsense, it's just,
Speaker:is that a genuinely held belief?
Speaker:In which case, sack her.
Speaker:So, as this article says, The debate about the proposed religious discrimination
Speaker:bill often neglects to acknowledge religious institutions are already
Speaker:permitted to make discriminatory hiring and firing decisions so long as they are
Speaker:motivated, by their religious beliefs.
Speaker:Um, that's according to Jolene Reilly Munton, a professor in the Faculty of Law
Speaker:at the University of Technology, Sydney.
Speaker:Um, she said religions did not have to prove their reasons are valid according
Speaker:to some measure of objective rationality.
Speaker:They just have to establish that they took their decision in good faith to avoid
Speaker:injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherence of that religion or creed.
Speaker:There you go.
Speaker:So, Alison has gone off again in the chat room.
Speaker:You're feisty tonight, Alison.
Speaker:Oh dear.
Speaker:So yeah, there we go.
Speaker:As long as it's your religious belief.
Speaker:Oh sorry, it's your belief on religion.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Sack people.
Speaker:Incredible.
Speaker:This is where we're at in Australia.
Speaker:Other countries would be appalled.
Speaker:Apparently the ABC.
Speaker:Uh, each year broadcasts Christmas messages from religious groups, and this
Speaker:year, just gone, they broadcast the one from, uh, Brian Houston of Hillsong, as
Speaker:part of a Christmas message on the ABC.
Speaker:For fuck's sake.
Speaker:Can you not, as an editorial decision, just say, we are
Speaker:not going to help this group?
Speaker:Totally could.
Speaker:Well Um, they did allow John Dixon to pen some article about why Jesus was real.
Speaker:Right, yes.
Speaker:Why you've seen people believe that Jesus is real.
Speaker:And that was on ABC, yeah.
Speaker:That was on ABC too.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, actually, got an interesting statistic my son came across.
Speaker:Here's a good argument.
Speaker:When we talk about how many people are religious, and we look at the census
Speaker:where people Declare whether they have a religious affiliation or not.
Speaker:I reckon this is a good test.
Speaker:Whether you choose a civil celebrant for your marriage or a religious celebrant.
Speaker:Like, that's really part of whether you're a practicing, believing, religious person.
Speaker:I mean, if you truly believe in a religion and are a follower, you would not be
Speaker:getting married by a civil celebrant.
Speaker:And, um, The 2020 figures are out from the Australian Bureau
Speaker:of Statistics, and 80 percent of Australians chose a civil celebrant.
Speaker:That's a big proportion, I think, yep, so, um, um, so yeah, I've got the statistics
Speaker:there, and when we're really talking about genuine religious belief, surely.
Speaker:If you are getting married, you would have a religious celebrant
Speaker:if you're a true believer.
Speaker:It was interesting to see 20 years ago how high it was.
Speaker:Um, yeah.
Speaker:It was 75 percent religious, I think.
Speaker:Um, let me see.
Speaker:I'll pull that up on the screen.
Speaker:Let me see here.
Speaker:So Oh no, 50%.
Speaker:I hope you got it there.
Speaker:Let me see.
Speaker:2000 was 50 percent civil celebrants.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:52.
Speaker:8.
Speaker:And 2010, 69.
Speaker:2020, 80%.
Speaker:Now, I wouldn't mind doing, uh, satanic religious ceremonies
Speaker:down the track in my retirement.
Speaker:That could be fun, I reckon.
Speaker:There could be some really cool people who would want that.
Speaker:So, that's on the agenda.
Speaker:It's very, very difficult to get registered as a Because you have to have
Speaker:a full course that's deemed the equivalent of The Civil Registrant, um, course.
Speaker:How hard is that thing?
Speaker:I think that's a two week course.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:As I said, in retirement, it can't be that hard.
Speaker:It's a lot easier to do what the Pastavarians are doing and
Speaker:become civil celebrant, who do a religious themed ceremony.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Um, what else have we got here?
Speaker:I think that is the main ones to get through.
Speaker:It's 9.
Speaker:10, we've gone for an hour and 40 minutes.
Speaker:We've kept Shea out of the Shark Tank yet again.
Speaker:Uh, let me get rid of that screen.
Speaker:She's not Shea the Subversive, she's Shark Tank Shea, isn't she?
Speaker:Yeah, well, either one.
Speaker:Steel Wolf has posted a joke twice.
Speaker:Shall we hear it?
Speaker:Yeah, what was it?
Speaker:Why don't ants get COVID?
Speaker:Why?
Speaker:Antibodies.
Speaker:Laugh on.
Speaker:Very good.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well, good on you in the chat room.
Speaker:You've been going off in there and, um, uh, that's good to see.
Speaker:Uh, we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.
Speaker:I don't know what I'm going to do next week.
Speaker:Um, I might even speak to the Velvet Glove.
Speaker:I haven't mentioned it to him.
Speaker:But we'll see what we've got organized.
Speaker:Um, uh, I read this book, which I was sure I was going to end
Speaker:up doing a book review on.
Speaker:And.
Speaker:I actually wasted a fair number of days in the holidays.
Speaker:You know when you get a book and you think, Oh, I'm
Speaker:starting to, it's hard work.
Speaker:I really persevered with it.
Speaker:And it was a book that was really talking about, this is progression in human
Speaker:evolution that says, we were hunter gatherers and we were egalitarian.
Speaker:Then when we discovered agriculture and we formed cities, we then had
Speaker:hierarchies which led to inequality.
Speaker:And it was just a sort of a natural thing of, once we coalesced together,
Speaker:we had inequality and hierarchy.
Speaker:And the book was basically showing lots of examples, particularly in
Speaker:South America and North American Indian tribes, where they got quite
Speaker:large, were hunter gatherers, were not agrarian, but um, quite large cities,
Speaker:and they were quite egalitarian.
Speaker:Anyway, I persevered with it, and it was really hard work.
Speaker:I spent a lot of hours on it.
Speaker:And, and then Then I got to the footnotes, or the endnotes.
Speaker:Like, there was, there was like 40 pages of endnotes.
Speaker:I was working my way through those.
Speaker:It's crazy, I know.
Speaker:As I tell it, it's ridiculous.
Speaker:Anyway, I've, one of the footnotes was about, uh, referred to Bruce
Speaker:Pascoe and his book Dark Emu, and was glowing about, about it.
Speaker:And I was like, oh no!
Speaker:If you guys writing this book have taken Bruce Pascoe's word on all his stuff,
Speaker:Then I can't trust any of the stuff that you've said about any of these North
Speaker:American and South American tribes at all And I was like, oh just wasted so many
Speaker:hours I should have just abandoned it So I
Speaker:stopped reading and started doing watercolors then on my holidays
Speaker:Yeah, there you go, so there's a lesson for you if you're working
Speaker:if a book becomes just hard work give up early That's what you've
Speaker:done Alright, dear listener.
Speaker:Suncoast fallacy.
Speaker:Yeah, it was indeed.
Speaker:Yep, I fell for that one.
Speaker:Alright, dear listeners, in the chat room, thanks for your comments.
Speaker:I'll be back next week with something and we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.
Speaker:We'll talk to you then.
Speaker:Bye for now.
Speaker:Good night.
Speaker:That's a good night from him.
