Artwork for podcast The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
Episode 323 - The situation is hopeless, we must take the next step
11th January 2022 • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove • The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove
00:00:00 01:42:13

Share Episode

Shownotes

In this episode we discuss:

  • No Vax Jock Evicted
  • Deep Throat on where to inject
  • When a jab is not a jab
  • Tanks! Fucking Tanks!
  • More from Dutton
  • An election year
  • The Saturday Paper Editorial
  • Bettoota, The Chaser and The Shovel
  • Rat Shortage
  • No Free Rats
  • Joe has been battling “free thinkers”
  • Spending has crashed
  • Stats
  • Media Bias
  • Patrons
  • Tony Blair was knighted.
  • A Statue for the Queen?
  • Church’ defends decision to terminate worker who got COVID jab
  • ABC broadcasted a Xmas Message from Hillsong
  • Religious but using a civil celebrant?

To financially support the Podcast you can make:

We Livestream every Monday night at 7:30 pm Brisbane time. Follow us on Facebook or YouTube. Watch us live and join the discussion in the chat room.

We have a website. www.ironfistvelvetglove.com.au

You can email us. The address is trevor@ironfistvelvetglove.com.au



Transcripts

Speaker:

Ah, dear listener, we're back.

Speaker:

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove podcast.

Speaker:

Back for another year, and it's already kicked off with some amazing

Speaker:

stuff happening in the world of news and politics and sex and religion, so

Speaker:

we're looking forward to a big year.

Speaker:

If you're in the chat room, say hello.

Speaker:

Some of you are already there, which is good.

Speaker:

Uh, Watley, uh, Diastrates, Jack H is there, so good on you guys.

Speaker:

If you're in the chat room, say hello, and You know, a little bit of a straw

Speaker:

poll, uh, Novak Djokovic, should we kick him out or let him play?

Speaker:

We'll be talking about it obviously, so let us know your thoughts, um,

Speaker:

your vote either way and we'll see what you've got to say and maybe

Speaker:

you'll, maybe your mind will change as we'll talk about things, so.

Speaker:

I of course am Trevor, aka the Iron Fist, uh, with me when she's not

Speaker:

flying around the world or Australia.

Speaker:

Shay, the subversive, hello Shay.

Speaker:

Good evening.

Speaker:

And Joe the Tech Guy.

Speaker:

Evening all.

Speaker:

So we're back for another 2022.

Speaker:

Joining us later, um, a special, uh, surprise for you will be Deep

Speaker:

Throat, who's going to talk about, uh, vaccinations and where the

Speaker:

needle should actually go in your arm and a few other things like that.

Speaker:

He's sitting in the green room, um, looking like Santa Claus at the moment,

Speaker:

and, uh, he's ready to go when we've finished about Novak Djokovic, and I

Speaker:

can see him there, and, um, deep throat, if, if you're really keen to contribute,

Speaker:

put your hand up, and we'll put you, we'll put you through, so, but, uh,

Speaker:

anyway, yes, okay, 2022, we're kicking it off, and, um, hello David Cox, and

Speaker:

hello Daniel in the chat room, Wow.

Speaker:

Um, No Vax, Jock Evicted, uh, is what I've titled this episode.

Speaker:

Um, Shea, is, is tennis something that you keep track of?

Speaker:

Are you a sport, do you follow sport like that at all?

Speaker:

No, not really.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Yeah, I did watch Ash Barty at Wimbledon.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

But that would be the first time in years.

Speaker:

Have you felt compelled to follow this whole drama, or have you just

Speaker:

been like, Nah, couldn't care less.

Speaker:

Like, what's it been on your scale of interest?

Speaker:

It's, um, been hard to escape.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

Yeah, it's just been, it's been everywhere.

Speaker:

Facebook, Twitter, the news, um, all my news podcasts.

Speaker:

So, kind of do, it is interesting.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

There's not a lot of other things going on necessarily, so.

Speaker:

Um, except we've bought 3.

Speaker:

2 billion dollars worth of tanks and a few other things that we'll talk about.

Speaker:

Oh, oh, okay.

Speaker:

If you're in the chat room, uh, leave him in or throw him out.

Speaker:

And, uh, David is in the, uh, throw him out camp.

Speaker:

Let us know your votes as to what we should do with Novak Djokovic.

Speaker:

So, um, really it's a bit of a conundrum here because, uh, as it

Speaker:

was said in Crikey, I think it was in Crikey, an article I read which

Speaker:

said that, uh, Australia is a country that defines itself by two things.

Speaker:

Uh, we love our sport and we love talking, uh, taking down

Speaker:

or chopping down tall poppies.

Speaker:

So really the case is which one do we enjoy the most here?

Speaker:

Do we want our sport or do we want to chop down a tall poppy?

Speaker:

Um, really, Morrison's really boxed himself into quite a conundrum

Speaker:

here in, and it's hard to see him escaping this without significant

Speaker:

damage, so, you know, on the one hand though, this isn't unusual.

Speaker:

I mean, every few years, Australia takes an international superstar

Speaker:

hostage for unclear reasons and then we release them without explanation, and

Speaker:

this is very popular with Australians.

Speaker:

And if you're wondering what we're talking about, well the examples historically

Speaker:

are, um, Johnny Depp and Amber's Dogs, Pistol and Boo, if you remember.

Speaker:

We threatened to deport them.

Speaker:

Ah, it will be interesting.

Speaker:

Apparently there may be perjury charges on that one.

Speaker:

Oh, really?

Speaker:

On the, on the Pistol and Boo saga?

Speaker:

In the divorce case, uh, there was further evidence came out that

Speaker:

Amber Heard had perjured herself.

Speaker:

Okay, so that was Barnaby Joyce, of course, who threatened to do that.

Speaker:

Frank Sinatra, when he was in town many, many years ago, and he got in trouble for

Speaker:

calling, uh, female journalists broads, or hookers, or something like that.

Speaker:

And so, basically, Bob Hawke got the, uh, transport industry Basically refused to

Speaker:

fly him and he was holed up in a hotel room until he apologised and worked out

Speaker:

a settlement and was allowed to move around the country and eventually leave.

Speaker:

So, we have held an international superstar hostage before.

Speaker:

Um, other examples, um, The Who.

Speaker:

The band The Who toured Australia 1968 flanked by Two Small

Speaker:

Faces, which was another band.

Speaker:

And, uh, they're playing lots of gigs and But the tour was cut short after an

Speaker:

incident on an Ansett flight from Adelaide to Essenton that seemed remarkable

Speaker:

for its mildness more than anything.

Speaker:

En route to Melbourne, a bottle of beer was produced, and

Speaker:

off colour language was used.

Speaker:

Before long, Prime Minister John Gordon had sent a telegram to the band, insisting

Speaker:

that they leave Australia never to return.

Speaker:

We've got form on this.

Speaker:

And Joe Cocker was expelled in 1970 for drug possession.

Speaker:

And that's why drug abuse is completely unknown in this country.

Speaker:

What a farce, what a fiasco, what an incompetent bunch of numbnuts we've got

Speaker:

in charge of this country who can't even stop a tennis player from coming in,

Speaker:

who they knew was a rabid anti vaxxer.

Speaker:

They couldn't have written to him, flagged it, worked it out with the

Speaker:

tennis officials beforehand, a dire warning saying we're not letting him in.

Speaker:

It's just Management 101, if, of course this is going to blow up, but if you're

Speaker:

too busy putting on fluoro vests and attending the cricket and other, and

Speaker:

holding up a fish that you've just cooked for a curry dish, and, and if you're

Speaker:

just into these sorts of things, you're not doing the real work of government.

Speaker:

And if your staff is just full of people who are doing your tweets and your social

Speaker:

media posts and they're not thinkers.

Speaker:

Then, and then, if you just are looking for a knee jerk, if you knee jerk react

Speaker:

to everything and you're looking for what you think might be a good distraction

Speaker:

from the moment, so when rats are unavailable or expensive in the systems.

Speaker:

You know, catastrophe, and you think, oh, here's a diversion,

Speaker:

we'll talk tough on Novak Jokovic, and then you get caught out.

Speaker:

If you're just lazy and grossly incompetent and are not able to

Speaker:

just sort of see things through, this is where you end up.

Speaker:

And ah, here's the thing though, dear listener, I just got a message from a

Speaker:

close right wing friend of mine, and he was like, ah, fuck ups, they all do it.

Speaker:

Look at, look at Labour with the, with the um In summation, Bats, that killed four

Speaker:

people and it was a complete catastrophe, they all do it, they're all the same.

Speaker:

Like, for some people you will never change them, you'll, no matter how

Speaker:

grossly incompetent this bunch is, there are some people you'll never change.

Speaker:

Sorry, how many deaths are we going so far?

Speaker:

I mean, nowhere near the rest of the world, but Yeah, uh, actually, I looked

Speaker:

it up, actually, and it is, um 2, 416 in Australia, since the beginning, yeah.

Speaker:

But for some people, you just, no amount of Four deaths is absolutely

Speaker:

unbelievable, shouldn't be allowed, and then two and a half thousand,

Speaker:

oh well, you know, they all fuck up.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

Some people you'll never convince about just what a bunch of hopeless,

Speaker:

corrupt, fucking wankers these guys are.

Speaker:

But hopefully enough of the younger generation.

Speaker:

are seeing something about this and are recognising what have we

Speaker:

got ourselves into with this crowd.

Speaker:

You would think, Shay, do you hold out hope that this, people will

Speaker:

remember this or will they forget?

Speaker:

I'm worried they're going to forget.

Speaker:

Like, this is only January.

Speaker:

I really don't think the young people are the problem.

Speaker:

He is speaking to the boomers.

Speaker:

This has got boomers, populists all over it.

Speaker:

Young people don't traditionally vote for the Liberal National Party.

Speaker:

They will see this as a stunt.

Speaker:

And I think they're hoping, they're hoping, certainly I am, that like,

Speaker:

he's been, he's, Novak Djokovic has basically held Scott Morrison to account.

Speaker:

He had a little bit of power, he used the power, good.

Speaker:

I would actually, my contempt for Scott Morrison has gotten so big

Speaker:

that I would stand shoulder to shoulder with Novak right now.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And fucking let him play.

Speaker:

The more humiliation we can bring to Scott Morrison, the happier I am.

Speaker:

Seriously, it's a disgrace.

Speaker:

It's really, really impactful.

Speaker:

The lack of, um It's negligence, not just incompetence.

Speaker:

Maybe it'd be more embarrassing for him though, if he does Actually, put him on

Speaker:

a plane and send him out of the country.

Speaker:

The world media will come crashing down on him at that point.

Speaker:

It could be worse.

Speaker:

Like, what is the best option here?

Speaker:

Do Australians really care what the world thinks?

Speaker:

Apparently not.

Speaker:

He should, you know, um, unfortunately, his win is going to be seen as

Speaker:

a validation of all the ND Vax's points ever, uh, and it's just

Speaker:

going to give them more bravado in ignoring and flatting our laws.

Speaker:

And, and so, I think We wear it.

Speaker:

We say Australia is a sovereign nation.

Speaker:

So what if you think you had permission from Tennis Australia?

Speaker:

Tennis Australia is not the, um, immigration service.

Speaker:

Correct.

Speaker:

We'll get on to the details soon.

Speaker:

We'll just have a little bit of a rant and get out some frustration from three

Speaker:

or four weeks of watching this shit show.

Speaker:

It looks like in the chat room you guys are a bit the same.

Speaker:

Like you've launched off with an amazing amount of comments here.

Speaker:

So, uh, David was in the throw him out camp, uh, Steel Wolf says

Speaker:

agreed throw him out, um, uh, Steel Wolf, Steel Wolf asks, is it some

Speaker:

sort of tag and release program?

Speaker:

You kiss him as you throw him back into the water.

Speaker:

Um, uh, let me see, uh, Craig B says can't believe he's still here, and

Speaker:

Daniel says we're a sovereign nation, we can turn away whom we please,

Speaker:

but I agree it's beyond a farce.

Speaker:

Celebrity and sports people are a law unto themselves, so, okay.

Speaker:

So if you just joined the chat room, let us know, um, your opinion, uh,

Speaker:

should he stay or should he go?

Speaker:

What should happen to Novak?

Speaker:

Now, if he stays there will be trouble?

Speaker:

If he goes there'll be trouble.

Speaker:

It's a no win situation now for Morrison.

Speaker:

Who declared, by the way, this is when, um, he declared, Mr

Speaker:

Jokowicz's visa has been cancelled.

Speaker:

Rules are rules, especially when it comes to our borders.

Speaker:

No one is above these rules.

Speaker:

Our strong border policies have been critical to Australia

Speaker:

having one of the lowest death rates in the world from COVID.

Speaker:

We are continuing to be vigilant.

Speaker:

Ordinarily you'd say, it's impossible to make that statement and not pull

Speaker:

the trigger on the special powers that the Immigration Minister has.

Speaker:

For fear of appearing to be a massive hypocrite.

Speaker:

But of being, the fear of being a massive hypocrite.

Speaker:

This doesn't rate with these guys, does it?

Speaker:

So, um, uh, okay, um, right, so in the beginning of this whole saga,

Speaker:

there was a lot of talk about what did Tennis Australia say to Novak?

Speaker:

What assurances did they give?

Speaker:

And At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what they said.

Speaker:

I could have been completely fraudulent about what advice they were giving him.

Speaker:

It's not Tennis Australia's, um, role to decide what the rules are.

Speaker:

So the rules are there in place, and if Tennis Australia mucked them up

Speaker:

or didn't muck them up, really bears nothing in relation to what happens

Speaker:

to Jokovic, other than maybe he could sue Tennis Australia for damages.

Speaker:

Or misleading him, if that's what they did.

Speaker:

So, but it has absolutely no bearing on the actual outcome of his entitlement to a

Speaker:

visa as to what Tennis Australia told him, uh, if, if it was contrary to the rules.

Speaker:

So, um, I saw a tweet from somebody that said, um, Read the fine print.

Speaker:

Did Tennis Australia tell him that federal border restrictions

Speaker:

were a different process?

Speaker:

Anyone should work that out.

Speaker:

Just because I've got a ticket to Disneyland doesn't mean I've

Speaker:

got a visa to enter America.

Speaker:

That's a good analogy, actually.

Speaker:

They had rules in relation to competing in their tennis tournament,

Speaker:

and Victoria had rules in relation to quarantining in Victoria.

Speaker:

But that's all quite separate to whatever the rules are that the

Speaker:

Federal Government has in relation to allowing people into the country.

Speaker:

And as much as Morrison will try and deflect and blame Dictator Dan for this,

Speaker:

surely everybody recognises that it's the Federal Government's role as to who

Speaker:

comes into the country or not on a visa.

Speaker:

Surely.

Speaker:

They did their best in the early days to try and Distract and blame Dan and blame

Speaker:

Tennis Australia, but I think everybody's pretty much worked that out, surely.

Speaker:

Well, Border Files are a federal force.

Speaker:

Border Files are a federal force, aren't they?

Speaker:

Yeah, indeed.

Speaker:

I'm a little bit worried that the judge in the case didn't actually work that out.

Speaker:

We'll get to that.

Speaker:

Well, I was going to say, he just said, uh, you didn't give him due process.

Speaker:

Well, but he said more than that.

Speaker:

He said, what more could this man have done?

Speaker:

The answer was Got vaccinated?

Speaker:

Indeed.

Speaker:

It's not difficult.

Speaker:

Stayed at home if you didn't meet the visa entry requirements.

Speaker:

Something like 90 percent of all Australian adults have managed it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So, um, so what have we got here is, um, in the court case, essentially,

Speaker:

dear listener, this is about procedure, and was the correct procedure followed

Speaker:

when Border Force rejected him?

Speaker:

And And the case that Jokowicz won was not, was not on the substantive argument

Speaker:

of whether he was validly entitled to a visa and had met the requirements.

Speaker:

The argument he'd won was that the border officials Border force

Speaker:

officials did not use the appropriate procedure when kicking him out.

Speaker:

And that's a totally different thing to the substantive issue.

Speaker:

So, so it's really, because what they did was, um, uh, they made procedure,

Speaker:

in the end they decided that there were procedural errors and In the

Speaker:

small hours of Thursday morning, officials promised Jokovic until 8.

Speaker:

30am to seek advice about the proposed cancellation.

Speaker:

They reneged on that, abruptly cancelling his visa at 7.

Speaker:

42am.

Speaker:

One official wanted the matter resolved before their shift ended.

Speaker:

That's where they made their mistake.

Speaker:

They said one thing and they did another.

Speaker:

They made a procedural error.

Speaker:

So, there was no decision made about the Act and whether he had complied with it

Speaker:

in terms of the requirements for a visa.

Speaker:

So, what happens with, uh, this sort of judicial administrative review is the

Speaker:

court doesn't substitute a judgement and doesn't say, are the decision maker,

Speaker:

um, should, I hereby order the decision maker should have done this, X, Y, Z.

Speaker:

The judge simply says, the process was wrong and the decision arrived

Speaker:

at at that process is quashed, now go back and do it all again.

Speaker:

Like go back and, and reprocess it again and this time don't make the same mistake.

Speaker:

That's, that's what happens in these judicial review cases.

Speaker:

So, um, By way of explanation with our Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons

Speaker:

that is currently before the Supreme Court in Queensland, and we're still

Speaker:

waiting on a judgement five months later.

Speaker:

Presumably we've got some merit in this case.

Speaker:

I'm starting to get excited about it.

Speaker:

There were two parts to it.

Speaker:

It was basically, we applied to run Satanic Religious Instruction Lessons and

Speaker:

we filled in the form and we submitted it.

Speaker:

And the, uh, in my view, the decision makers who rejected us, did so because

Speaker:

they relied on reasons that we had had no opportunity to object to.

Speaker:

They just said, you're rejected because of X, Y, Z, and we

Speaker:

meant, what do you mean X, Y, Z?

Speaker:

Like, nobody ever asked us about that.

Speaker:

You, you never came to us and asked us about those things, so

Speaker:

your rejection of us was invalid.

Speaker:

So, we've got a really, really strong case to have the procedural letter.

Speaker:

thrown out and for the whole case to go back to the Department

Speaker:

of Education who will then be asked to make the decision again.

Speaker:

And, and, and our case is a little bit different because we also then sought

Speaker:

an order, a declaration as to our validity as a religious organisation.

Speaker:

But the reason why we sought that declaration is because Just getting a, for

Speaker:

us, just winning on administrative review isn't good enough because it just sends

Speaker:

it back to the original decision maker who can still just screw you over again.

Speaker:

So, so that's what's really happened in this case where the judge has said

Speaker:

procedurally Border Force mucked it up.

Speaker:

The decision's no good and now it's open to Border Force to make the same decision

Speaker:

again but this time do it properly.

Speaker:

Or it's also open to, um, one of the Ministers for Immigration to use some

Speaker:

extraordinary powers that they've got and just kick him out anyway, so, so,

Speaker:

so it's basically all about procedure and the fact that they'd, uh, mucked up

Speaker:

the procedures, which is extraordinary because apparently while all this was

Speaker:

happening, like, imagine you're in Border Force and you're going to be

Speaker:

kicking Jokovic out of the country.

Speaker:

You reckon you're not ringing some pretty high up people and

Speaker:

saying you want me to do what?

Speaker:

What do I say next?

Speaker:

At four in the morning.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

He's asked for a delay until 8.

Speaker:

30.

Speaker:

I told him yes.

Speaker:

Okay, but you're telling me now I don't have to?

Speaker:

Okay, like all of this would have come from very very high up It's

Speaker:

not just some poor Border Force employee With his Gestapo black

Speaker:

outfit acting on his own here.

Speaker:

Like he's clearly Talking to his superiors.

Speaker:

They were on the phone to Dutton.

Speaker:

Yeah, and to muck it up procedurally, despite all that, shows that

Speaker:

there weren't many lawyers in the room, by the sounds of it.

Speaker:

So, um, so yeah, so that's where we're at, is that, um, despite what the

Speaker:

judge said, it was all about procedure.

Speaker:

It's entirely open to the government to actually look at the rules and say,

Speaker:

you did not meet the requirements.

Speaker:

Here is a fresh decision, where we have complied with all the

Speaker:

things, procedures we need to comply with, and you're out, mate.

Speaker:

The other one is that there's just this extraordinary power, because,

Speaker:

because we in Australia have, have a, um, a particular expertise in not

Speaker:

allowing people into the country, the act in question has these amazingly

Speaker:

broad and incredible powers for the relevant minister, just to say, I don't

Speaker:

feel like letting you in, out you go.

Speaker:

Without any review.

Speaker:

So, they've definitely got the power to do it if they want to, you know.

Speaker:

Politically though, now, is the question.

Speaker:

They're just, it's, it's now about how to, what's the best decision

Speaker:

in terms of the next election?

Speaker:

There's nothing in this about, oh, what's in Australia's best interest

Speaker:

in terms of vaccination and keeping people safe and examples for the future.

Speaker:

It's all about, bloody hell, what do we do now so we can win the next election?

Speaker:

I don't know which one's the best option, but, I don't know.

Speaker:

Good luck.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So, that's what we've arrived at.

Speaker:

Um.

Speaker:

Yeah, I mean, there were some comments about, um, effectively, you have to

Speaker:

be vaccinated to enter Australia, unless you have a medical exemption,

Speaker:

and the medical exemption is only a temporary reprieve, because you've

Speaker:

been unable to get vaccinated.

Speaker:

So you either cannot be vaccinated or for some reason you were a little more

Speaker:

unable to, in which case you've got six months to do it because you've been ill.

Speaker:

But that's not a, uh, a free pass.

Speaker:

It, it's not a, yeah, because when it comes back next year

Speaker:

and we still demand vaccination, is he gonna catch covid again?

Speaker:

It's he, he's, well, he's trying to gain, he's gaming the system.

Speaker:

He's demanding an exemption.

Speaker:

He's demanding special privilege.

Speaker:

And I think the answer is no.

Speaker:

Fuck off.

Speaker:

But doesn't he meet that eligibility requirement because he can get

Speaker:

a medical exemption on the basis that it's not recommended to get

Speaker:

a vaccine after you've had COVID.

Speaker:

There's a period of time you have to wait.

Speaker:

Two weeks.

Speaker:

I think This is the difficulty.

Speaker:

We have until the 16th of December, so what's the date today?

Speaker:

After the 30th of December.

Speaker:

The difficulty with all this is that as you're reading stuff and people

Speaker:

are quoting rules, you don't know whether that's a Tennis Australia

Speaker:

rule, whether it's a Victoria quarantining rule, or whether it

Speaker:

is a federal government visa rule.

Speaker:

And people, as I'm reading stuff in social media, and even in Um, reputable, um,

Speaker:

mainstream media are getting these things intertwined and mixed up all the time.

Speaker:

So, um, I read somewhere and I haven't had the chance all the time to verify

Speaker:

it, which was that under the, under the Migration Act, um, the fact that you, um,

Speaker:

you, you couldn't rely on the fact that you've previously contracted a disease.

Speaker:

As a reason for not being vaccinated, like it specifically said that

Speaker:

in the, in the Migration Act.

Speaker:

Now, you'll see other people quoting other stuff, um, but that's to do

Speaker:

with often Victorian quarantining rules and Tennis Australia rules

Speaker:

and not the federal visa rules.

Speaker:

So, the reporting on this by the media has been terrible because they say things

Speaker:

like, Djokovic is one, he'll be playing.

Speaker:

Without, without stopping and going, well of course the federal government can still

Speaker:

make the decision, like, they just knew nothing about it, these people, and, and

Speaker:

the confusion where they've been chopping and changing between Atargi rules.

Speaker:

Victorian rules, Tennis Australia rules and, and migration rules makes

Speaker:

it really confusing to try and, um, um, get to the final answer.

Speaker:

So, um, so yeah.

Speaker:

But it certainly is the case that the, the Minister can just say on public

Speaker:

interest grounds, I'm saying you're out.

Speaker:

Apparently I was looking on Twitter, I've actually been following Twitter

Speaker:

a little bit in recent times and somebody was saying on that, that,

Speaker:

um, That they're looking heavily at whether he lied about whether

Speaker:

he travelled in the last two weeks.

Speaker:

Apparently when you fill in your form, you have to say whether you have done

Speaker:

any overs travelled between countries in the last two weeks, and he said no.

Speaker:

And they're looking at his social media posts, which seem to indicate Yes, so

Speaker:

the point was he flew out of Spain, so he had to have been in Spain for at least

Speaker:

two weeks, and it looks like he didn't leave Serbia until a week before he flew.

Speaker:

And there's some other posts with him, social media things, where he's

Speaker:

appeared at different things, so.

Speaker:

But also, he was supposed to isolate for two weeks after testing

Speaker:

positive, and he was pictured out in public with no mask on.

Speaker:

But more importantly.

Speaker:

On the visa application, when you are asked have you travelled between

Speaker:

countries in the last two weeks and you say no, and at the bottom of the

Speaker:

application it says if you've lied about anything in your responses, that's a

Speaker:

serious problem and we may use that as a reason for rejecting your visa.

Speaker:

So, they are madly scampering now to see whether he lied on those sorts of things

Speaker:

and will use that as sort of ammunition for potentially bouncing him out.

Speaker:

What a mess.

Speaker:

What a complete mess.

Speaker:

And if he gets kicked out for this, he's banned for three years,

Speaker:

although that's a case by case.

Speaker:

They could always waive that.

Speaker:

They could always say, up to three years.

Speaker:

So they could say, well, you can come back next year, if you want to.

Speaker:

Oh, dear oh dear.

Speaker:

Okay, um.

Speaker:

My personal view is, is that if they let him play, that will be it for them.

Speaker:

I just think particularly Victoria will be so outranged if they let

Speaker:

him play that they'll definitely lose the federal election.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

That's my view.

Speaker:

I think Australia's largely centrist.

Speaker:

I think the

Speaker:

Uh, sounds like Shea has just Frozen, and she disappeared.

Speaker:

Hopefully she'll come back.

Speaker:

So, um, David in the chat room says, It took me two years to get visa,

Speaker:

to get my visa to come to Australia.

Speaker:

Every single part of every form had to be absolutely correct.

Speaker:

Why is it not the same for Novacs?

Speaker:

I think it might be David.

Speaker:

I think they're going through it with a fine tooth comb.

Speaker:

Um, uh, let me just see.

Speaker:

Um Uh, did we block Dire Straits for any reason, Joe, in the chat?

Speaker:

Have we blocked anybody?

Speaker:

No, I've, I've looked.

Speaker:

It might be the bot.

Speaker:

Okay, it might be the bot who did automatically Dire Straits.

Speaker:

We didn't do it, um, so, uh, let's see.

Speaker:

Cause Dire Straits thought he was, uh, it was blocking him swearing.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, I don't think it might have just, uh, come through quickly.

Speaker:

So, okay, hopefully Shea's, um, reconnecting and coming back to us

Speaker:

and Um, what else have I got here?

Speaker:

Oh, so of course, the Serbian, um, President came out in support of

Speaker:

Novak Djokovic, um, called for the end to the harassment, um Yeah, he

Speaker:

said, why are we picking on him?

Speaker:

He's not a Muslim.

Speaker:

Yes, um, at least he cares about his people.

Speaker:

Well, there is that.

Speaker:

So, Morrison, um, if you're looking at Julian Assange, is just saying, well

Speaker:

that's a matter for, uh For the, uh, authorities in the UK, and, uh, nothing

Speaker:

to do with us, so At least the Serbian President cares about his people.

Speaker:

Uh, also Um, Barnaby Joyce has said that Novak Djokovic's detention is not hurting

Speaker:

Australia's international reputation.

Speaker:

Which might be a fair enough opinion, except back in 2015, in relation

Speaker:

to gay marriage, um, he told the ABC Insiders program that basically

Speaker:

Australia's support of gay marriage was harming our international reputation,

Speaker:

particularly with places like Indonesia.

Speaker:

Um, he said that I think what we have to understand is that when we go there,

Speaker:

there are judgments, whether you like it or not, that are made about us.

Speaker:

And they see in how we negotiate with them, whether they see us,

Speaker:

whether they see us as decadent.

Speaker:

So that was Barnaby Joyce saying, one of the problems with marriage equality

Speaker:

was what would people think of us.

Speaker:

Meanwhile, um, he doesn't see any problem with what, uh, is

Speaker:

happening with Novak Djokovic.

Speaker:

Um, you know, what would I do now if I was in charge?

Speaker:

Sorry, Sarah, you said you would, um, what would you do?

Speaker:

You'd let him stay or you'd kick him out?

Speaker:

What would you do with York?

Speaker:

I think that if they, if, I think that if they let him stay and play, that

Speaker:

will be the end of their government, because the outrage will be so, um,

Speaker:

palpable, particularly for Victorians, who've fallen all, all the rules.

Speaker:

And, um, met all these standards, only to be let down so badly.

Speaker:

What would you do if you were in charge?

Speaker:

If you were trying to minimise the damage?

Speaker:

Well, what would you do?

Speaker:

Is it the right thing now?

Speaker:

What would you think is the right thing to do?

Speaker:

Ignoring whether you want to win an election or whatever, what do

Speaker:

you think is the right thing to do?

Speaker:

Um, the right thing?

Speaker:

God, I haven't thought about that a lot.

Speaker:

It's hard to, isn't it?

Speaker:

We get so used to, how can we fuck these people over or how

Speaker:

can we screw the system or?

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker:

What about you, Jo?

Speaker:

While Che's thinking.

Speaker:

Let him play.

Speaker:

Let him play.

Speaker:

The right thing to do.

Speaker:

Joe, if, you know, just It's the right thing to do if you are a benevolent

Speaker:

dictator in, or what, no, if you're just I just want to do the right thing here.

Speaker:

What, what do you think should happen?

Speaker:

I think the right thing is kick him out.

Speaker:

Um, he's gaming the system.

Speaker:

Uh, whether or Tennis Australia thought he was valid or not.

Speaker:

Um, we have rules.

Speaker:

He's trying to get an exemption to the rules.

Speaker:

And it sends a bad message to those people who feel coerced into getting vaccines.

Speaker:

So those who have been vaccinated despite their misgivings.

Speaker:

And it aids those who think that they have a right to ignore the

Speaker:

rules and not be vaccinated.

Speaker:

I think it's not good for us.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Before he left, I would have definitely said, you're not allowed in.

Speaker:

I would definitely have been in favour of saying, keep him out because he

Speaker:

just doesn't comply with the rules.

Speaker:

And, what, if we're just going to let everybody in who's been, had

Speaker:

COVID but hasn't been vaccinated, and that's a complete change of our

Speaker:

system, um, would that be so bad?

Speaker:

So, if we did change the rule and just said, oh, if you've had COVID you can

Speaker:

come in, would that be a catastrophe?

Speaker:

So, we can change the rules, but the problem is, why are we

Speaker:

changing the rules to suit him?

Speaker:

Or, like, rules have really got to be changed a lot now though.

Speaker:

Like, um, for example, checking in at every cafe that you go to.

Speaker:

Why, what's the point now?

Speaker:

So, should we just give up on demanding that people are vaccinated because

Speaker:

the majority of us are vaccinated?

Speaker:

Yeah, I mean, have we reached, when do we reach the point where we just go,

Speaker:

the whole point was to get vaccinated so that we can move on, and have not we,

Speaker:

have we not reached that point at now?

Speaker:

Well, but then, you know, um, you, there's many countries that still

Speaker:

demand the yellow fever vaccination.

Speaker:

Mm.

Speaker:

Before you travel to the country, you know, why can it not be part of,

Speaker:

um, our, our border requirements?

Speaker:

There was, certainly when I applied for my visa to come here, um, I couldn't be HIV

Speaker:

positive and I couldn't have tuberculosis.

Speaker:

So You know, and that was because, yeah, and that was because we don't

Speaker:

want to have to pay for your health care in the, which you have a much

Speaker:

higher risk of, of, so if Djokovic caught COVID and ended up in hospital

Speaker:

on a ventilator for months, right?

Speaker:

Okay, well, that's, so being unvaccinated, having had the disease, does that make

Speaker:

your chances of hospitalisation far less?

Speaker:

Um, if he's had Delta and he catches Omicron, probably not.

Speaker:

If his head on the economy catches a vibe, Delta, probably not.

Speaker:

Deep throat, do some homework in the meantime before you come on on that one.

Speaker:

Might need your help.

Speaker:

But, you know, it's things like, um, for example, people coming in overseas who

Speaker:

are having to quarantine for two weeks.

Speaker:

Meanwhile, people who are already here and we know have got COVID,

Speaker:

we're saying, oh, one week's enough.

Speaker:

Like this, and that's clearly a bizarre inconsistency.

Speaker:

Like.

Speaker:

So we are really in the realm where a lot of these rules have to start

Speaker:

changing, I think, and Alright, let's bring in some consistency.

Speaker:

Enough with the cough up.

Speaker:

You know, working in airports, I was so expecting to see much better management of

Speaker:

the vaccination status, the requirements, the PCR tests, and of course we didn't.

Speaker:

There's not been a single police check on me or any of the passengers

Speaker:

in any of the flights I've done.

Speaker:

Not a single one.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

So I think there is a case for procedural fairness.

Speaker:

We do need a consistent line, so fine, but we're not actually demonstrating

Speaker:

that in Australia or anywhere else.

Speaker:

So I really don't see why we have to either make Ol Mate a martyr

Speaker:

or Yeah, I think it's great.

Speaker:

He used some of his power to call out the procedural unfairness and the

Speaker:

clock, clock ups that keep happening.

Speaker:

Mm hmm.

Speaker:

Plenty of other people, like, I can see in the chats, plenty of other people

Speaker:

who, like, have suffered some unfairness or had to do things a particular way.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

So from a health management perspective, it's still a good idea to force people

Speaker:

to be vaccinated and just having had the disease really, uh, uh, is

Speaker:

a, it's, it's a different thing to having been vaccinated in terms of.

Speaker:

our health management process, it seems.

Speaker:

So the vaccination is a known dose with a known outcome.

Speaker:

The problem with catching the disease is you can test positive,

Speaker:

you've had a minor dose.

Speaker:

Which gives you limited, um, antibodies, uh, or you could have a major dose,

Speaker:

which, yeah, protects you fully.

Speaker:

The question is, with a live, uh, infection, we don't know how

Speaker:

much, uh, immunity you've got.

Speaker:

Whereas it's a lot more consistent with a vaccine where there's a known dose.

Speaker:

It's not perfect, but there's a better outcome.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

And in the end, it's not a lot to ask.

Speaker:

Just get a needle in your arm, hopefully in the right spot in your

Speaker:

arm, which we'll get to very soon.

Speaker:

So, yeah, okay.

Speaker:

So we can sort of come to the conclusion.

Speaker:

It's, uh, from a health management perspective for our,

Speaker:

uh, country, it's still a good idea to insist on vaccinations.

Speaker:

The fact that you've had the disease, too bad.

Speaker:

Just get vaccinated.

Speaker:

And, really, if we allow him to stay, then, for consistency, we

Speaker:

should be saying, um, yeah, otherwise we're opening the floodgates

Speaker:

to everybody in that situation.

Speaker:

So, uh Just on that point on procedural fairness and proper systems, Bernard

Speaker:

Tomic is on Twitter at the moment.

Speaker:

Uh, he let rip to one of the Tennis Australia officials because he's

Speaker:

pretty sure he just lost his tennis match and he reckons he absolutely

Speaker:

will have contracted COVID.

Speaker:

And he found it absolutely appalling that the only thing that was protecting,

Speaker:

um, He's frozen again, Trevor.

Speaker:

No, we can hear you.

Speaker:

Um, perfect.

Speaker:

The only thing that was, that, the only protection in place was the rapid

Speaker:

antigen PECR test or anything else.

Speaker:

Right, so he's saying, so he contracted COVID on a tennis court

Speaker:

by a tennis player, and that's what, and that's what's costing the game.

Speaker:

Oh, during the game he contracted it.

Speaker:

I'm not sure about that, I think, I've heard lame excuses

Speaker:

for losing a tennis match.

Speaker:

But he does make the same point is we've got to have some consistency,

Speaker:

we've got to have a proper system, we've got to, you know.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And We won't have to practice Jopovich now, anyway.

Speaker:

In, uh, in the chat room, um, what have we got?

Speaker:

Um, uh, Steel Wolf said Shay is a bot, everybody look busy.

Speaker:

That's when you disappeared.

Speaker:

Uh, Die Straights is a good one.

Speaker:

The right thing to do is the opposite of whatever the prime marketer thinks.

Speaker:

That's, that's a very good Die Straights.

Speaker:

I like that.

Speaker:

Um, Watley says the right thing to do is to boot him out.

Speaker:

David says I live in Victoria.

Speaker:

Everyone I work with thinks he should be thrown out.

Speaker:

Victorians will stop following any guidelines if he stays.

Speaker:

So, um, that's a good point.

Speaker:

I mean, here in Queensland, we've been largely immune from all of this stuff.

Speaker:

Immune's not the right word, but you know what I mean.

Speaker:

And, um, but yeah, people have gone through a lot in places like Victoria and

Speaker:

have thought that others are sidestepping it, uh, and gaming the system.

Speaker:

Uh, yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker:

So, oh well, um There we go.

Speaker:

So, let's introduce Deep Throat and I'll bring him in now.

Speaker:

So, Deep Throat, you're live on air.

Speaker:

Welcome back to the podcast.

Speaker:

And have you got your microphone on?

Speaker:

Because I can't hear you.

Speaker:

You're talking away and You, um, you keep talking and I'll tell you when I

Speaker:

can hear you, Deep Throat, because I can't hear you at all at this stage.

Speaker:

So, allow access to How's that?

Speaker:

How's that?

Speaker:

That's better.

Speaker:

We can hear you, Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Hello, everyone.

Speaker:

For the third time.

Speaker:

Good to have you back on, uh, Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Now, the reason for talking to you is you described a situation to

Speaker:

me where you were in a pharmacy watching somebody get vaccinated.

Speaker:

Do you want to tell the story and what your thoughts are about that?

Speaker:

Yeah, yeah, I will.

Speaker:

I just thought maybe I'd give people a little bit of background.

Speaker:

At one stage I was, um, running, or my team, I was part of a team running a

Speaker:

vaccination, um, um, system in one state in a developing country, so, and it

Speaker:

was a nightmare trying to get vaccines to rural areas, um, in poor areas in

Speaker:

India, um, and keep the cold chain going.

Speaker:

So, um, it's, it's, you know, in that chain where you're getting

Speaker:

vaccines out, it only takes one little hiccup for it to all go wrong.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

So, and, uh, so anyway, getting back to my story, which I told Trevor about, um,

Speaker:

Um, I was at my local pharmacy and, uh, and he was really busy because he was

Speaker:

doing some vaccinations with Moderna.

Speaker:

And I was thinking to myself, oh, maybe Moderna might be better than getting

Speaker:

the Pfizer because I sort of, you know, was booking in for my booster

Speaker:

and Pfizer was going to be it and I was sort of tossing up that sort of thing.

Speaker:

And then he went off into his little sort of cupboard, um, area

Speaker:

to, um, uh, to do the vaccine.

Speaker:

And then he comes out with, uh, with this and after giving them vaccine to this.

Speaker:

The woman and, uh, and my heart sort of froze because I saw where,

Speaker:

where he'd done the vaccine.

Speaker:

It was definitely suboptimal, um, and not really This is where the band

Speaker:

aid was placed on the person's arm.

Speaker:

Yeah, the band aid was placed.

Speaker:

He shared a nice band aid on there.

Speaker:

Something like, I've just had COVID or something.

Speaker:

I can't really read it myself.

Speaker:

It mentions COVID, so, um, it is a little bit above the insertion of the deltoid

Speaker:

muscle there, but not, not very much.

Speaker:

And, uh, um, it's It's supposed to be an intramuscular injection, and

Speaker:

there are probably a few muscular fibres there as you can see from the

Speaker:

anatomy book there, but not many.

Speaker:

Okay, so on the screen, dear listener.

Speaker:

So, you were in the pharmacy and you just sort of surreptitiously took a

Speaker:

photo of a shelf and you just happened to capture this arm in the background.

Speaker:

Yeah, that's right.

Speaker:

It was just a sheer accident that this arm just happened to appear in the

Speaker:

shot as I was taking a photo of the instructions on some medications there.

Speaker:

That's right.

Speaker:

So you just happened to have, yes, so on the screen to your

Speaker:

listener is the arm in question.

Speaker:

And the spot where the injection was is very, very high up

Speaker:

compared to where it should be.

Speaker:

Is that what we're saying?

Speaker:

No, no, it's in the middle there.

Speaker:

It's where the band aid is.

Speaker:

Oh, hang on.

Speaker:

Let me see.

Speaker:

See the band aid?

Speaker:

Oh, way over on the edge there.

Speaker:

Yeah, well, I can't point it, but it's where the band aid is.

Speaker:

So, uh.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

Speaker:

Yeah, dear listener, there is a band aid.

Speaker:

Basically we're that, um, yeah, it's way over on the side.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Oh, I'm like, okay, I was looking at a different photo.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So it's around the side from where it should be.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So for those of you who want to know about anatomy, it's an intramuscular injection,

Speaker:

the COVID injections, and they're supposed to go into the deltoid muscle.

Speaker:

Um, and most people know what the deltoid muscle is, but what they

Speaker:

might not know is it inserts actually halfway down the humerus, which is

Speaker:

the upper, the bone in the upper arm.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Um, and at that spot, it's mostly tendon, um, as it is where that X

Speaker:

is at the top there, where it is, where the origin of the, um, the

Speaker:

muscle is, and that's tendon as well.

Speaker:

So, if you're injecting it down as low as where he is injecting it, then, um,

Speaker:

your chances of hitting muscle are, you know, like, vanishingly small,

Speaker:

really, because there's not as much muscle there, it's mostly tendon, so.

Speaker:

So I'm, I'm sort of thinking to myself, has this woman had a intra

Speaker:

tendon injection, which is nowhere that I know is that's where you're

Speaker:

supposed to give her the vaccination.

Speaker:

And if you get an injection into the tendon rather than the muscle

Speaker:

is it almost useless, is it?

Speaker:

Um, well yes, I tried to find out about intra tendon injections

Speaker:

and there's nothing to find out because no one does that.

Speaker:

So I'm on shaky ground because I can't give you any scientific evidence.

Speaker:

I was thinking to myself, that must have really hurt what she hadn't done there.

Speaker:

And I'm thinking tomorrow, in the day after, I'm thinking the next day for

Speaker:

her, she's going, Oh, gee, that was a terrible, terrible COVID vaccine.

Speaker:

It's really hot and red and sore.

Speaker:

And so, so yeah, so I went home and I put together this

Speaker:

sort of a bit of a info form.

Speaker:

And then I went back to the pharmacist and said, Oh, look, um, You know,

Speaker:

I don't, I don't want to be mean or anything like that, but I think

Speaker:

you gave it in the wrong spot.

Speaker:

Oh, okay.

Speaker:

Here's, here's, here's it, and, uh, um, I, I think he took it on board,

Speaker:

and I'm, I hope he's professional about it, and, uh, and has learned

Speaker:

something from that, um, and, uh, he did say that, he did say that, look, you

Speaker:

know, you know, people make mistakes, and hopefully they learn from their

Speaker:

mistakes, so, so I think he took it in.

Speaker:

In good form, really.

Speaker:

So, but anyway, that's, that's my story there and, and I got that from,

Speaker:

I think that might have been, um, also on the CDC website about, you know,

Speaker:

where vaccines are supposed to do and that adverse reaction there, which is.

Speaker:

The sort of thing this poor woman might be looking at the

Speaker:

day after with, um, inflammation and, uh, and swelling and that.

Speaker:

But the other thing is, um, there's a good chance, you know, that it

Speaker:

hasn't taken, you know, as a vaccine.

Speaker:

She thinks she's had a booster or whatever it was and she's fine.

Speaker:

Um, if it doesn't go into the muscle where there's a good va, you know,

Speaker:

vascular, um, vascularization of that tissue, then it hangs around a

Speaker:

bit in the subcutaneous tissue and therefore it will tend to get denatured.

Speaker:

Um, and therefore might not have as much effect as it should have.

Speaker:

So, so.

Speaker:

Here I'm thinking, like, there's been, what, well over 100 years of vaccine

Speaker:

development and, you know, we've had this massive thing on, on, you know,

Speaker:

genetics and genetic engineering and they've got this vaccine done in the

Speaker:

Pfizer labs and they've got it out and they've gone all the way through here

Speaker:

and then some pharmacist gives it in the wrong spot and I'm going, oh wow,

Speaker:

you know, like, gee, come on, come on.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Every step of the chain has to be in place, as you say.

Speaker:

Every step.

Speaker:

There's only need one, one thing has to go wrong and, and, and you're done.

Speaker:

And, uh, and I've seen that happen.

Speaker:

Now, some places take this very seriously, the positioning.

Speaker:

Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Tell that story as well.

Speaker:

You know how when you get your, you know, you've had your COVID vaccine

Speaker:

and probably on the first one you get that sheet, or hopefully you haven't,

Speaker:

and you've got to tick the boxes.

Speaker:

No, I don't have this, I don't have this, I don't have that.

Speaker:

And on that sheet there's a particular condition.

Speaker:

Unfortunately, my wife has one of those conditions, rare conditions,

Speaker:

where she can't have the vaccine.

Speaker:

And so, we were sweating on this because her immunologist, um, was

Speaker:

saying, Look, if you get COVID, it's probably going to kill you.

Speaker:

If you get the vaccine, there's no good chance of killing you.

Speaker:

So, we were sort of in this terrible situation.

Speaker:

But, what they did was at the Royal Brisbane Hospital here in Brisbane,

Speaker:

um, they, um, opened up a specialist vaccination clinic for people who have

Speaker:

problems with vaccine, vaccination, um, to see if they can get rounded and help them.

Speaker:

So, so her immunologist You know, referred her along to this vaccination

Speaker:

clinic and she went through the whole process and got the different vaccines

Speaker:

tested to see which would be the safest and then, you know, holding her breast,

Speaker:

she goes in there and gets it done.

Speaker:

But the interesting thing was when they, um, when she was having it

Speaker:

done, the nurse who did it measured out, you know, using the anatomical

Speaker:

landmarks and marked where it should go.

Speaker:

And she actually did it three times to make sure it was exactly where it

Speaker:

should be using the needle that was going to be exactly the right length for

Speaker:

her, you know, body, um, body makeup.

Speaker:

Um, and, and that's how she had.

Speaker:

So, my, I don't know for sure, but I think being a specialist in immunization,

Speaker:

um, clinic, they want to get it exactly in the right spot so that you don't

Speaker:

get adverse sort of reactions and that.

Speaker:

So, I don't think that's necessary for the average, um, Um, Doctor or

Speaker:

Pharmacist to do, because you've got a pretty big area there to aim,

Speaker:

so it doesn't cause any problems.

Speaker:

After that, next week I actually had my booster, you know, so I didn't go to the

Speaker:

pharmacist, I decided against Moderna, I'd go for the Pfizer, where I was

Speaker:

already booked in, so I went for that, and I waited until I'd had my vaccination

Speaker:

and then my booster and I said, I said, look, what do you think about this?

Speaker:

And she started laughing when I showed her where the, where the We're the um,

Speaker:

you know, the band aid picture and all that and she said, I'm laughing because

Speaker:

if I wasn't laughing I'd be crying.

Speaker:

And, and then when I got home, I got out, I, I, I got into the front

Speaker:

of the mirror and thought, where, you know, where has she gone?

Speaker:

Because I had a tiny little band aid on and one of those spotlights.

Speaker:

And it was, it was within two millimetres of the exact centre, so.

Speaker:

When you've done enough of them, you can just eyeball it and go bang and get

Speaker:

it in, so, um I'm surprised that you didn't, before going, market yourself

Speaker:

with a pen as to I was going to, but I, I, I, I'm sort of thinking, this

Speaker:

is a big insult, really, isn't it?

Speaker:

So, I just trusted that going to a doctor was going to be better, but

Speaker:

Having said that, you know, I probably just, it was a complete fluke to come

Speaker:

across this situation and probably every, let me say, every other pharmacist in

Speaker:

Australia is doing the right thing.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Well, there you go, dear listener.

Speaker:

When you're going for your jab, um, look at the, um, it'll be on the website,

Speaker:

it'll be in the show notes, it'll probably be the picture we use for this episode,

Speaker:

um, a picture of where it should go.

Speaker:

Can I just say one other thing?

Speaker:

So, once you invited me on, Trevor, I thought, gee, I'd better do a little

Speaker:

bit more research and make sure I'm on solid ground here, and I am.

Speaker:

But I came across There's a, there's a, um, website which, and it's done by

Speaker:

Melbourne's, Melbourne Vaccination um, Education Centre, and they say how to do

Speaker:

vaccines, and, and it's not quite right.

Speaker:

You know, I mean, it's, I'm going, hang on, their picture, you know,

Speaker:

they've got this picture and it doesn't quite add up to the, you know,

Speaker:

what they're saying in the words.

Speaker:

So, so.

Speaker:

I've got some sympathy for the, uh, the pharmacist, because maybe he was

Speaker:

looking at that and, and he's gone online, he's possibly gone online and

Speaker:

just looked at things and, and made his own decision, I don't know, does

Speaker:

the Pharmacy Guild, maybe there's a pharmacist, pharmacist listening to this

Speaker:

right now, do they give, um, education, instruction, they should do, but, uh,

Speaker:

It's very easy, you know, with Mr.

Speaker:

Google to sort of get on the wrong track, well, yeah.

Speaker:

I think I read somewhere in the UK with the NHS that they avoided

Speaker:

long queues because they asked for volunteers, for people to come and

Speaker:

be trained in how to give injections.

Speaker:

And so A lot of the significant number of injections were done by people

Speaker:

who had no other medical training other than how to get an injection.

Speaker:

And they would be potentially Mum said it was a bunch of middle aged, um,

Speaker:

retire oh sorry, middle class retirees.

Speaker:

Who were all having a wonderful time.

Speaker:

She said it was wonderfully efficient and she was in and out.

Speaker:

They didn't even hold her for 15 minutes.

Speaker:

It was in, get your vaccine and then you're out again.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

And I can imagine somebody like that could actually be even better than

Speaker:

a fully trained, you know, nurse or medical professional because With

Speaker:

the right attitude, they just do what they're told without any preconceived

Speaker:

ideas that they know better.

Speaker:

So, I think I mentioned before in the podcast, Deep Throat, about

Speaker:

they, um, they surveyed people in a hospital, uh, how to do CPR correctly.

Speaker:

And there was, like, the registrar, the nurse, there was the cardiac surgeon,

Speaker:

there was the, the ward psychologist, and a whole range of people who were

Speaker:

Who were basically given material on how to do it correctly and then

Speaker:

were tested on how well they did.

Speaker:

And the person who performed best was the psychologist, because they,

Speaker:

the psychologists would just do what they were told according to the

Speaker:

instructions and follow it to the letter.

Speaker:

Whereas the other people thought, oh, I've heard all this before, I remember

Speaker:

back in uni days we were told to do this or do that and had these preconceived

Speaker:

ideas that affected their performance.

Speaker:

Which I don't say.

Speaker:

An untrained person, uh, who just, with the right attitude,

Speaker:

may be the best person?

Speaker:

Oh, I think there's a lot to be said for that, and also for pharmacists

Speaker:

and, you know, doctors and nurses.

Speaker:

This is a small part of their day, in a sense, you know, doing this sort of thing.

Speaker:

They're more focused on other things, so I think you're right.

Speaker:

Um, just going back to that vaccination service that I was involved with and

Speaker:

effectively running, um, We, we, we trained up health workers, which was

Speaker:

based on the barefoot doctor model.

Speaker:

And so what you were saying was correct.

Speaker:

We just said, these are the things that we want you to do.

Speaker:

The rest of it, you make sure you get them to a doctor or a nurse.

Speaker:

But in your, it was with refugees, in your refugee settlements, um,

Speaker:

this is what we want you to do.

Speaker:

And, um, and I think you're right.

Speaker:

I think, you know, they were just focused on this.

Speaker:

This is all they had to do.

Speaker:

Make sure kids got their vaccinations.

Speaker:

You know, and doing, you know, and chronic diseases, making sure they've

Speaker:

got their medications and that.

Speaker:

And I think you're right.

Speaker:

I think they did a really good job and stayed within that focus.

Speaker:

And for them, that was the biggest part of their work, not

Speaker:

a little part of their work.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Just one other thing.

Speaker:

You mentioned earlier about the size of the needle.

Speaker:

Would that mean that somebody who's particularly large, either muscular

Speaker:

or just fat, should have a longer needle than somebody who's skinny?

Speaker:

Well, absolutely, and if you go on, you know, various websites like the CDC

Speaker:

and, and probably the Australian one, so I just can't remember where they

Speaker:

are, they actually give a, um, there's a guidelines in terms of tables of what

Speaker:

size needle you should, you should give.

Speaker:

So if you've got a, like a neonate, you know, a newborn baby, you know,

Speaker:

would be using a great needle.

Speaker:

You know, big needles and that, and uh, and, and, and interesting when you think

Speaker:

about things like that because neonate, you use a fairly, um, you know, not, not

Speaker:

very long needle, but then when you get to the toddlers and that, they're actually

Speaker:

quite chubby, so you've got to use quite a thick needle, and then when you get

Speaker:

to the kids that are running around, you know, they, they become thin again, and

Speaker:

you've got to use a thinner needle again.

Speaker:

But if you get a really big, beefy guy, you know, you've

Speaker:

got to use a bigger needle.

Speaker:

So there are guidelines in the size of the needle, too, you know.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

I've never paid any attention as to whether they sized me up and

Speaker:

went, you're obviously a number six or a number ten or something.

Speaker:

In your case, Trevor, I don't think it was the length of the needle,

Speaker:

I think it was the thick one.

Speaker:

They said, here's the biggest, thickest one we've got and let's

Speaker:

do three of them at the same time.

Speaker:

Well, funnily enough, I'm one of these people who faints when I get

Speaker:

a needle, like just uncontrollably.

Speaker:

So, whenever I get a needle, I always lie down.

Speaker:

And so, even at these places with the vaccination centres.

Speaker:

Uh, where everybody else is sitting in these long corridors of banks of people,

Speaker:

I'd said, Show me where the bed is, cause I'm gonna lie down when you do this.

Speaker:

So, um, yeah, so For something like that, it's not the time to be embarrassed.

Speaker:

Because if you fall over and crack your head open, you know, you're in a bigger

Speaker:

Spot a bobber, so it's not, yeah, just call your bride and tell them, look,

Speaker:

I've got a problem, and they won't even think second, they won't even worry

Speaker:

about, you know, it's part of their job.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, they're very, they're very encouraging.

Speaker:

Whenever I say that, um, for any needle, they say, oh, glad you told me, of

Speaker:

course, lie down here, like they're Yeah, because you're right, they don't

Speaker:

want you fainting, so yeah, and it's much more comfortable to lie down, so.

Speaker:

Right, well Joe O'Shea, any questions for Deep Throat before we sign

Speaker:

him out to his next appearance?

Speaker:

No, it's Yeah, yeah, same.

Speaker:

Likewise, likewise.

Speaker:

So all the best there, you know, for 2022.

Speaker:

All right, Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Keep up the good work.

Speaker:

All right, we'll have you on more often.

Speaker:

Good luck.

Speaker:

See you, Deep Throat.

Speaker:

Bye.

Speaker:

Bye.

Speaker:

Oh, there you go.

Speaker:

The crackly voice, all back around to Deep Throat there.

Speaker:

Mm hmm.

Speaker:

There we go.

Speaker:

Interesting.

Speaker:

I love the fact that he took a photograph and then went back the next day and spoke

Speaker:

to the pharmacist and said, pharmacist and said, Oh, this might not be right.

Speaker:

How good's that?

Speaker:

That's so good.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Okay, you're still in the chat room.

Speaker:

You reckon Novak should stay or go?

Speaker:

Let us know.

Speaker:

Um, Watley the Wizard says, All hail Deep Throat.

Speaker:

I agree.

Speaker:

And, uh, um, David says, I had my booster on Saturday.

Speaker:

I think the nurse got a bullseye.

Speaker:

Good.

Speaker:

All right, um,

Speaker:

there was this fake tweet.

Speaker:

There's, there's lots of fake Scott Morrison Twitter accounts.

Speaker:

And this, this fake one said, um, when I bump into everyday

Speaker:

Australians at the shops, the one thing I always hear is, when are we

Speaker:

going to buy more heavy artillery?

Speaker:

And today, that's what we've done.

Speaker:

3.

Speaker:

5 billion dollars worth of new tanks.

Speaker:

Words fail me on these guys.

Speaker:

Well, the only thing you can say is tanks for that.

Speaker:

You could say that, Joe, you could.

Speaker:

Tanks.

Speaker:

You know, the last time we used a tank, I've got it here in an article

Speaker:

I read, um, We haven't deployed a tank in combat since the Vietnam War.

Speaker:

Like, the whole anti China rhetoric is, we're talking ships, we're talking

Speaker:

missiles, we're talking planes.

Speaker:

We're not talking tanks.

Speaker:

Well, when we have to defend the Brisbane line.

Speaker:

This is just toys for bullies, keeping the colonels and the generals happy.

Speaker:

Um, so from the Americans, we've agreed to purchase 120 tanks, um, and 3.

Speaker:

5 billion worth.

Speaker:

Um, uh, the tanks will replace 59 Abrams MIA 1s.

Speaker:

Which were bought in 2007, but have not seen combat.

Speaker:

It's 15 years, they're old.

Speaker:

Yeah, and the fact that they haven't seen combat?

Speaker:

It's a deterrent, you know, that's just to prove that they worked.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

That's right.

Speaker:

Chief of Army Lieutenant General Rick Burr said tanks and combat engineering vehicles

Speaker:

were essential to Australia's ability to contribute to combat that could be

Speaker:

integrated with forces of other countries.

Speaker:

Because of their versatility, tanks can be used in a wide range

Speaker:

of scenarios, environments and levels of conflict, he said.

Speaker:

Honestly.

Speaker:

And, in the same week, a few days later, M1A1.

Speaker:

Thank you, Craig Peat.

Speaker:

Um, Craig, what's your opinion on the tanks?

Speaker:

Is that a good idea or not?

Speaker:

I think Craig may have some expertise in matters of this type.

Speaker:

Um, In the same week, Dutton said, uh, he urged celebrities and athletes

Speaker:

to use their star status to draw attention to China's treatment of women.

Speaker:

Warning that Beijing is escaping scrutiny despite the plight of

Speaker:

Chinese tennis player, Peng Shui.

Speaker:

Not that the government has got any problem with women and the treatment

Speaker:

of women, but he's telling celebrities.

Speaker:

Or even the treatment of tennis players.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Or Yes indeed.

Speaker:

Yes,

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

What has this government got to do?

Speaker:

Like, I know what I read.

Speaker:

I mean, I do read NewsCorp stuff and I do read Fairfax stuff, and I

Speaker:

can, this, can these guys get away with it with this sort of nonsense?

Speaker:

Continually Can they?

Speaker:

It it, it'll just be so interesting to see.

Speaker:

So, um, John Lord wrote.

Speaker:

I find it impossible to imagine that the Australian people could be so

Speaker:

gullible as to elect for a fourth term a government that has performed so

Speaker:

miserably in the previous three, and has amongst its members some of the

Speaker:

most devious, suspicious and corrupt men and women, that they just might.

Speaker:

Well, you know what Labor's like.

Speaker:

They're always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Speaker:

Even they couldn't, surely, in this case.

Speaker:

Surely.

Speaker:

Um.

Speaker:

Sad day paper, editorial, Scott Morrison's smile is like a measuring

Speaker:

tape, it lengthens as he decides what it is he can get away with.

Speaker:

The calibration is sometimes off, but this does not affect his confidence.

Speaker:

Before he speaks, he sucks air hard through his nose.

Speaker:

One last assessment, as if to smell the credulity of the room.

Speaker:

Some people are good writers, that's good writing there.

Speaker:

So I'm hanging my hat on my hopes on, yeah, the Batuta, the Chaser, the Shovel,

Speaker:

every comedian in Australia, um, lots of people just, there is no shortage

Speaker:

of, of things to poke fun at with these groups, so, with this government, so

Speaker:

I'm just hanging my hat on people.

Speaker:

Reading that stuff along the way and getting the idea.

Speaker:

So, like, just to give you an example, some of the great headlines from,

Speaker:

for example, the Batuta Advocate.

Speaker:

So just going by the headline of some of their articles, um, Sleep Deprived

Speaker:

Nurse Relieved To Hear Future Is Now In Safe Hands With 75 Diesel Powered Tanks.

Speaker:

Um, Scotty Spent 3.

Speaker:

5 Billion On Tanks To Distract From How He Treated Novact.

Speaker:

To distract from rat shortage.

Speaker:

Uh, Desperate Scotty informs media that Yokovich just threw children

Speaker:

overboard from Quarantine Hotel.

Speaker:

Future lockdowns all but confirmed after PM declares they'll never happen again.

Speaker:

That sort of stuff you would hope would cut through.

Speaker:

Let's, let's hope so.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I doubt it because the people, they're preaching to the choir.

Speaker:

The people who believe it are the people who are going to be reading that.

Speaker:

And the people who don't believe it won't read it.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But surely the older crowd who vote Conservative are dying off in the

Speaker:

last three years and the younger ones have come in who couldn't vote in

Speaker:

the last three years, the 16 and 17 year olds from the previous election.

Speaker:

Hopefully it'll change.

Speaker:

Now, you saw the, the tests for COVID, like people waiting five, six, eight.

Speaker:

10 hours for a test?

Speaker:

I looked at it and thought, are you crazy?

Speaker:

Did you look at that and think, this is madness?

Speaker:

What are you doing?

Speaker:

Or did you think, good lord abiding citizen?

Speaker:

No, I thought they were crazy.

Speaker:

I went and got a test on the 30th of December And it was, oh my god,

Speaker:

the queues are gonna be ridiculous.

Speaker:

Mm hmm.

Speaker:

And they had Three parallel queues going, and we were done in 15 minutes.

Speaker:

I was impressed.

Speaker:

If you'd arrived and they said, join the queue, it'll be three or

Speaker:

four hours, would you have stayed?

Speaker:

Probably not.

Speaker:

Shay, did you think it was amazing that people would line up for those hours?

Speaker:

For a test?

Speaker:

I think, I think maybe they didn't know there might be other places, or

Speaker:

I think they, I think they were just probably desperate, found, found their

Speaker:

need to travel or their need to find out their test results urgently and

Speaker:

just weren't thinking, like, um, Like, I can imagine if you had an overseas

Speaker:

flight and you needed it, you had to, or even, but there couldn't have been that

Speaker:

many people who needed it for a flight.

Speaker:

I just, it just amazed me.

Speaker:

People do just join queues.

Speaker:

That's another funny thing about working in an airport.

Speaker:

They'll queue up at check in places where there's obviously no people.

Speaker:

They'll, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker:

People, people, people will queue.

Speaker:

But I had a similar experience.

Speaker:

I went to get a test on the 29th just near my house.

Speaker:

Drive through, 15 minutes.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

So, I'm surprised people aren't Googling other places.

Speaker:

But, I'm not that surprised.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

They do the right thing.

Speaker:

So they just get in the queue.

Speaker:

And a lot of the news was saying, like, doesn't matter where you go,

Speaker:

you're going to be queuing for hours, you're going to be waiting a long time.

Speaker:

So it's been like, oh well, just pick one.

Speaker:

I just could not sit in a car for four or five hours.

Speaker:

I mean, what did these people do when they needed to go to the toilet?

Speaker:

What, did they all have a piss bottle in the car or something?

Speaker:

Did they, like, what did they do?

Speaker:

I just, I presume there's facilities there for the staff.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Anyway, um, so do you listen to just, uh, my My two daughters contracted COVID,

Speaker:

they were living in Brisbane, I was on the Gold Coast at the time, so we'd been

Speaker:

out, and, uh, two grandchildren got it, and so they had sort of just regular flu

Speaker:

symptoms for a day, and over and done with pretty quickly, so that was good.

Speaker:

Pretty sure my wife, um, she had classic flu symptoms, plus, Loss of

Speaker:

smell and taste and given the lack of the flu, the normal flu in the

Speaker:

community, pretty sure she had it and, but we couldn't buy a rat anywhere.

Speaker:

Uh, tried as hard as we wanted but we, we Signed up to the pharmacy when

Speaker:

we were down the Gold Coast who said, yep, you'll have one in two days time,

Speaker:

but they kept delaying it, delaying it because of logistics problems.

Speaker:

And in the end, they just gave up and said, sorry, we thought we'd be able

Speaker:

to provide one, just can't do it.

Speaker:

So, so we'll probably end, um, of course.

Speaker:

My wife and I are sleeping in the same bed and sharing lots of the same area,

Speaker:

and if she had it, it's hard to imagine I didn't get it, but I've had absolutely

Speaker:

zero symptoms, nothing at all, not a skerrick of anything, which is entirely

Speaker:

possible because I'm triple vaccinated, so, um, so yeah, so if I had to place

Speaker:

a bet, I would say my wife Um, almost certainly got it, and then therefore

Speaker:

I most certainly must have got it, and didn't even know, so, that's what's going

Speaker:

on in this household, so, um, and, it's interesting, where you'll have a lot of

Speaker:

people like us, who were not able to get access to rats, who will never really

Speaker:

be sure if we actually had it or not.

Speaker:

I find that bizarre.

Speaker:

I've been listening to my English friends talking about LFTs for the last two years.

Speaker:

Which are lateral flow tests, and they've been given away for free.

Speaker:

I mean, to the point where friends in the UK were talking about posting some to me.

Speaker:

Uh, and for some reason we've called them rats and we're

Speaker:

not giving them away for free.

Speaker:

It seems like they're coming out of everybody's ears in Europe.

Speaker:

There's so many they don't know what to do with them.

Speaker:

Yeah, um, Julia says they had to wait for around five hours.

Speaker:

You do what you have to do, everyone pitches in.

Speaker:

Like, Julia, I reckon if we were in COVID Zero, I would've, like, at that

Speaker:

point where we were trying to keep a lid on it and aim for COVID Zero,

Speaker:

I possibly would've then, um, but, gee, when the cat's out of the bag

Speaker:

like it has obviously been, I just, I just didn't see the point in it.

Speaker:

Um, but, good on these people for, And you for doing the right thing, but I

Speaker:

just sort of think, wow, that's, that's a commitment, um, to me when it was like,

Speaker:

the whole thing is just so prevalent and is, is now the cat's out of the

Speaker:

bag, what sort of, what was the point?

Speaker:

So, and Julia says, yeah, it may be different now.

Speaker:

So Julia, if the same thing happened today, he, um, he

Speaker:

wouldn't do it by the sounds of it.

Speaker:

So, um.

Speaker:

And, and, you know, it's very different when you're talking

Speaker:

about getting a vaccine.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Where the effects are going to be long term and long lasting.

Speaker:

But as you, yeah, under the current circumstances, if you

Speaker:

get a positive test, so what?

Speaker:

Really, is it going to make any difference to your behaviour?

Speaker:

No, that's right.

Speaker:

You've just got to assume you've got it and act according to it.

Speaker:

And, um, yeah.

Speaker:

You know, what happened to that army guy who was trotted out by the Prime Minister

Speaker:

and would appear standing beside him.

Speaker:

as our logistics expert because everyone knows the Army's really good for

Speaker:

helping you organize your logistics.

Speaker:

Yeah, I haven't seen him for six to eight weeks, , and I reckon the

Speaker:

next time I see him, it will be when Scotty throws him under a bus,

Speaker:

when he blames him for, uh, the poor rollout.

Speaker:

Okay, now.

Speaker:

The whole kerfuffle then.

Speaker:

Prior to, in the world prior to Novak Djokovic, we had the whole conundrum.

Speaker:

Not only the lack of rats, but the cost.

Speaker:

And people saying these things should be provided for free.

Speaker:

And what did the government say?

Speaker:

Well, Simon Birmingham said, one of our cabinet ministers, In partnership with the

Speaker:

states, our government is providing COVID 19 tests free to those who need them.

Speaker:

Typical of Labor, Albanese says they should be free everywhere without knowing

Speaker:

what it would cost or considering the wasteful hoarding it would generate.

Speaker:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Speaker:

And, um, that independent journalist, if you like, Michael, um, forget his name,

Speaker:

but he can tell you how much it'll cost.

Speaker:

He measured it up against the tanks, because it would cost 230 million.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Yet how many tests.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Yeah, that left us a good bunch of money left over.

Speaker:

Well, if you're buying them wholesale at cost, that couldn't

Speaker:

be more than a dollar each.

Speaker:

25 million Australians, 10 each, 250 million dollars.

Speaker:

Like, it's Yeah, right, exactly.

Speaker:

Duh!

Speaker:

Yeah, what, one a week for 10 weeks?

Speaker:

Typical of Labor.

Speaker:

Albanese says these should be free everywhere.

Speaker:

But you know what?

Speaker:

Labor was slow on it.

Speaker:

Like, Albany They've got a spurious plot!

Speaker:

When they came out, when this was being argued, it took days.

Speaker:

Albanese initially said, I think they should be affordable.

Speaker:

But he did not say they should be free.

Speaker:

You're aware of that show?

Speaker:

You saw that and just thought, what the hell are you doing?

Speaker:

And in the absence of him, I must say, the independents like Joe Dyer for

Speaker:

Boothby and the ones in Sydney have been out in force on Twitter, doing

Speaker:

a really good job of, um, cleverly phrasing their complaints, you know?

Speaker:

So, another opportunity, by the way.

Speaker:

Dire Straits in the chat room says, the reason we haven't seen that army

Speaker:

dude is he was out shopping for tanks.

Speaker:

That's a vehicle.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

And Alison, uh, with the 30 percent positive rates for PCR, PCR tests, uh,

Speaker:

she wouldn't be caught dead in a queue.

Speaker:

If you're trying to catch COVID, that's where you'd go, isn't it?

Speaker:

Oh, I just find that extraordinary.

Speaker:

And, you know, surely people can see that we gave 38 billion to businesses

Speaker:

like Gerry Harvey who didn't need it.

Speaker:

And we're not prepared just to give out tests, and people can see, well

Speaker:

that's what happens in other countries.

Speaker:

This is not extraordinary, so um.

Speaker:

Ah, surely people won't forget, please.

Speaker:

I know it's going to be five months away.

Speaker:

No, I think the impact has been widely felt.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, as this guy said on Twitter, thank goodness the government was smart and

Speaker:

didn't give out the free, the much more expensive vaccinations and PCR tests.

Speaker:

It's true, like these things are so obvious that you just sort of The

Speaker:

statement is just so weird and so left field that the obvious misses you.

Speaker:

Like, a PCR test is free, a vaccination is free, why isn't a rat free?

Speaker:

Like It's a slippery slope, we're out of trouble.

Speaker:

Uh, okay, um, okay, what else have we got here, um, spending, uh, oh Joe,

Speaker:

you've been battling freethinkers.

Speaker:

What's that mean?

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

Um, so, historically, freethinking was, uh, really a, um, a secular movement.

Speaker:

It was all about freedom from religious dogma, and was Interesting was

Speaker:

possibly, um, more centrist, so not left leaning, not right leaning, but seems

Speaker:

to have become very, very libertarian recently and seems to be a hotbed

Speaker:

for conspiracy theories about COVID.

Speaker:

QAnon and Stop the Steal was probably the first signs of it and has become

Speaker:

very, very jump on the latest bandwagon.

Speaker:

So if there's a anti vaxx conspiracy going around, I tend to see it there

Speaker:

first and Um, they are dogmatically certain that their, their scientists,

Speaker:

their cherry picked scientists know more than the thousands and thousands

Speaker:

of scientists who work in the field.

Speaker:

And you're wading into the comment, uh, forums and, and, and trying

Speaker:

a few punches out there, Joe.

Speaker:

Um, it, it's less around trying to change the minds of the people

Speaker:

whose minds have been made up.

Speaker:

It's not letting the bullshit go unchallenged.

Speaker:

for, you know, there's a thousand people in there, there's ten regular commenters.

Speaker:

Uh, it's for the nine hundred and ninety people who are sat reading, so that they

Speaker:

don't see the bullshit go unchallenged.

Speaker:

Uh, and I did get a comment back the other day which said, thank you, you

Speaker:

know, if it hadn't been for people like you putting reasonable arguments back, I

Speaker:

would have fallen down the rabbit hole.

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker:

Wow.

Speaker:

And that's good.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And, and, you know, um, it, it really is.

Speaker:

Sometimes it feels frustrating just dealing with the same

Speaker:

bullshit over and over.

Speaker:

Um, but it is worthwhile not to change the minds of those people

Speaker:

who are dogmatic, but for the silent majority who are listening.

Speaker:

Well, I applaud you for your efforts, Joe, just as I applauded deep throat

Speaker:

for, uh, visiting the pharmacist and telling him how to do the needle, getting

Speaker:

off your butt and doing something.

Speaker:

That's what it's about.

Speaker:

Joe, you're going to get off your butt and do something with Qantas,

Speaker:

but we can't talk about that probably.

Speaker:

We have to work out my best argument.

Speaker:

Hey, uh, in the chat room, we said earlier, if you're late to the chat

Speaker:

room, um, know that Jogovich, should we kick him out or let him stay?

Speaker:

Just let us know what your thought is there.

Speaker:

Be just, I'm curious to see what the response is.

Speaker:

So let me know your vote on that.

Speaker:

I'd really like to get 100 comments on this episode, uh, we get a

Speaker:

little indicator pops up if we do.

Speaker:

We shouldn't be too far off it, I think.

Speaker:

So, okay.

Speaker:

Um, Spending has crashed, so there is a graph which, oh, this was put out

Speaker:

by ANZ, Observed Spending, and I think that uses credit card information

Speaker:

and other stuff, and essentially, um, after, um, in the last few

Speaker:

weeks, retail spending has absolutely plummeted in Australia, so if you've

Speaker:

got a small business relying on people buying stuff, It's been tough times.

Speaker:

So, New South Wales, I think, is finding that, um, while they don't, well, they've

Speaker:

relaxed the rules in terms of businesses operating, the businesses themselves are

Speaker:

having to close because their staff are all sick and people aren't coming anyway.

Speaker:

Like, our economy has really taken a hit.

Speaker:

In the last few weeks, if you're involved in that side of the

Speaker:

world, let me know in the comments.

Speaker:

If you've got a small business that tries to sell stuff, you

Speaker:

must have found things tough.

Speaker:

Even people say, I've got friends, uh, Jewish community in Melbourne, uh, lots

Speaker:

of their friends are medical specialists.

Speaker:

And they're doing it tough, because all elective surgery has been cancelled,

Speaker:

so, um, with everybody, even though you've got a high income, you invariably

Speaker:

create expenses that more or less match your income, and when the tap's

Speaker:

turned off, you're in trouble, and, um, they said something like at the

Speaker:

Jewish school, um, that they go to.

Speaker:

There was an extraordinary number of defaults on payment of, um, school fees

Speaker:

that they hadn't seen ever before, um, I think she was quoting a quarter to a

Speaker:

third but I'm not sure on that but, uh, yeah, so even in the top end, medical

Speaker:

specialists, for example, struggling because can't do elective surgery.

Speaker:

Can't get money.

Speaker:

So, fuel in chat room says let him stay.

Speaker:

Let me know your votes.

Speaker:

Um, oh, what else have we got?

Speaker:

Just examples of media bias.

Speaker:

Um, I saw this one, which So this is two different papers on the same day.

Speaker:

Uh, the Sydney Morning Herald.

Speaker:

Um, well actually I'll start with Victor.

Speaker:

Yeah, Sydney Morning Herald.

Speaker:

On that day there were 22 and a half thousand new cases.

Speaker:

And who's the SME churned by?

Speaker:

Yes, Fairfax.

Speaker:

Which, who's running Fairfax?

Speaker:

And nine, Peter Costello.

Speaker:

He's head of that now, isn't he?

Speaker:

So, they've gone, yeah.

Speaker:

So, on the day that 22, 500 new cases came out in New South Wales, the

Speaker:

headline in the Sydney Morning Herald was, Hope bursts through COVID cloud

Speaker:

as Sydney rings in the new year.

Speaker:

Meanwhile, in Victoria, which had a third that number, it had 7, 700

Speaker:

cases, the age, the headline was, New infection surge to an all time high

Speaker:

as state hits 7, 442 COVID cases.

Speaker:

These, these are the sort of everyday, um, media bias messages

Speaker:

that come through that, uh, just subliminally work on people.

Speaker:

Um.

Speaker:

Oh, over the holidays, got a very nice donation from Dave S.

Speaker:

Thank you Dave for that very generous donation, much appreciated.

Speaker:

If you would like to donate to this podcast and help.

Speaker:

Keep the lights on, head to the website, you'll see a link for donations, Patreon,

Speaker:

where you can donate per episode, or if you don't like the idea of that,

Speaker:

there's PayPal, so you can do either a one off or a regular donation through

Speaker:

that, helps pay the costs, lets me know that you think it's worthwhile.

Speaker:

Buy the rum.

Speaker:

And it's, and helps pay for the rum, uh.

Speaker:

So, mind you, at the rate we're going, we probably won't be all together

Speaker:

in this room for quite a while.

Speaker:

But, um, there's remote things we can find.

Speaker:

So, um, alright.

Speaker:

Other things that happened Just quickly, I was talking to my older

Speaker:

sister today, and she, and she was just like, the obvious biggest problem

Speaker:

Australia has right now is with it.

Speaker:

And in parts of England, they did successfully boycott his papers.

Speaker:

So, any ideas how the little people Can sort of banish or

Speaker:

confront the Rupert problem.

Speaker:

I reckon, I reckon people should in, lots of people don't buy it, like, nobody

Speaker:

really buys newspapers anymore, but I reckon people should say at a cafe or

Speaker:

something, what is that rag doing here?

Speaker:

What are you, I'm going to stop buying your coffee if you're

Speaker:

going to put that thing here.

Speaker:

Um, yeah, maybe that's the way to go.

Speaker:

Like, say to them, like, that's I see it at the checkout at Woollies, yeah.

Speaker:

Should I be lobbying Woollies to take it away from the checkout?

Speaker:

Clearly a waste of time.

Speaker:

They're never going to listen to you.

Speaker:

But maybe local cafes would.

Speaker:

Yeah, maybe.

Speaker:

I don't know.

Speaker:

And is it really Rupert or is it James?

Speaker:

Uh, is there a difference?

Speaker:

Well, James is, James is a small Christian.

Speaker:

That's the problem.

Speaker:

I don't know, whichever one took over.

Speaker:

Lachlan Lachlan.

Speaker:

Lachlan took over.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Is it Lachlan?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Lachlan took over and he's a mad Mm-Hmm.

Speaker:

Christian.

Speaker:

He actually believes it.

Speaker:

Mm-Hmm.

Speaker:

, you know, just, you know, Rupert's just doing a deal with the,

Speaker:

with the evangelicals for power.

Speaker:

So, so who was worse believes who was worse?

Speaker:

The Maxwells or the, the Murdochs.

Speaker:

Clearly Murdoch's, way more, far more powerful, far more pervasive, far more

Speaker:

organised, like, you know when people talk about Trump As far as we know they

Speaker:

weren't smuggling children to Yeah, but his worldwide influence is way

Speaker:

worse than Maxwell's, so, when people talk about Trump they go, imagine if

Speaker:

there was a guy like Trump, but, who was actually clever and organised.

Speaker:

Well you don't have to imagine, it's just, Rupert Murdoch and he

Speaker:

decided to do it via a media empire, because it was the most effective.

Speaker:

Very weird.

Speaker:

Okay, um, let me see.

Speaker:

James is Packer's boy.

Speaker:

Yeah, um, that's right.

Speaker:

James is James Packer.

Speaker:

Who's the other one?

Speaker:

There's Lachlan and, who's the other one who sort of left the family

Speaker:

amongst the Murdochs and is now really writing anti Murdoch stuff?

Speaker:

Is he a James as well?

Speaker:

I thought so, but maybe not.

Speaker:

Yeah, um.

Speaker:

Uh, let me see what we've got here in the comments.

Speaker:

Uh, uh, Alison wrote a lot, but you didn't, um, you didn't say,

Speaker:

Alison, whether you thought Novak should be kicked out or not.

Speaker:

I'm interested to know what you think.

Speaker:

Um, um, okay.

Speaker:

What else have I got here?

Speaker:

Um, Tony Blair was knighted.

Speaker:

Sir Tony Blair.

Speaker:

The guy who's the architect of the Iraq War, one of the main instigators of it,

Speaker:

and we know that it was done for bullshit reasons, we know it killed millions

Speaker:

of people, and he gets a knighthood.

Speaker:

Um, one million Iraqis dead, three million dispossessed.

Speaker:

From the, this is from the BBC.

Speaker:

The ex Labour leader who was in power from 1997 to 2007 was given the title

Speaker:

as the New Year's Honours were awarded.

Speaker:

Uh, there's a petition that his role in the Iraq war makes him

Speaker:

personally responsible for many deaths and accuses him of war crimes.

Speaker:

Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, said, said that Tony

Speaker:

Blair had earned a knighthood.

Speaker:

And a government minister said it was only right to reward the former Prime Minister

Speaker:

who had done many good things for the UK.

Speaker:

Um, so he became an Order of the Garter, England's oldest and most

Speaker:

senior order of chivalry, and it's the personal choice of the Queen, who has

Speaker:

up to 24 knight and lady companions.

Speaker:

Uh, current Prime Minister Boris Johnson not involved in the decision.

Speaker:

Um, unlike the New Year's Honours List, which is drawn up by the

Speaker:

government for the Queen's approval, the Order of the Garter is bestowed

Speaker:

as a personal gift by the Queen.

Speaker:

And um, um, I thought it was a fairly usual payoff for former Prime ministers.

Speaker:

Anyway.

Speaker:

It was Bar Stacher.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Wasn't John Major a knighted?

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

Indeed.

Speaker:

But when you've started a war like that, Iraq war, at what

Speaker:

point, what disqualifies you?

Speaker:

Aucklands, yes.

Speaker:

Well, indeed, yes.

Speaker:

Didn't kill as many people.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

Didn't dispossess as many people.

Speaker:

The scale was smaller, honestly.

Speaker:

And, uh.

Speaker:

So he created the war, and he gets a knighthood.

Speaker:

Julian Assange exposes the war crimes, facing lifetime in prison.

Speaker:

Just wait till Boris gets knighted.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

so that's the Queen's personal choice.

Speaker:

And did you hear that, um, LNP's state, uh, member, Jared Blaise, um, he wants a

Speaker:

new statue for the Queen, um, commissioned to celebrate her 70th year on the throne.

Speaker:

With all the shit going on in the world, that's what Jared's wanting to do.

Speaker:

It's important.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

We've just named some island in Canberra after her as well.

Speaker:

We've named the state after her.

Speaker:

He's a devoted monarch.

Speaker:

He's also called on the Palaszczuk government to look at naming a public

Speaker:

monument after Elizabeth II as well.

Speaker:

So that's what keep, that's what keeping Jared Alight awake at night.

Speaker:

Now Alison has given her a strong opinion.

Speaker:

She's declared him a fuckwit.

Speaker:

Yes.

Speaker:

He's the one who actually He was on TV bemoaning the work

Speaker:

of the Noosa Temple of Satan.

Speaker:

And, uh, taking it all very seriously is a terrible thing.

Speaker:

And, uh, in the background, one of his fellow MPs was sort of giggling.

Speaker:

And, um, and that was the one that we found out through freedom of,

Speaker:

the right to information request.

Speaker:

Somebody internally was writing to somebody else internally saying, don't

Speaker:

these God botherers ever get sick of doing this, or something like that.

Speaker:

So, that's Jared Blayge for you.

Speaker:

Um How are we going for time?

Speaker:

9.

Speaker:

03, um, you guys got anything you want to get off your chest before

Speaker:

I think about winding this one up?

Speaker:

Have you guys got anything desperate to get off your chest?

Speaker:

Um, I was just thinking about the right thing.

Speaker:

I don't know about kicking him out or letting him stay being the right thing.

Speaker:

One right thing I'd like to see is less discretion for

Speaker:

ministers around this stuff.

Speaker:

Write a clear policy, get it passed through parliament.

Speaker:

It was purposefully designed as all powerful, without any checks and balances.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Especially if you have a friend who's got an au pair that needs a visa.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

Limit those types of discretionary powers.

Speaker:

Or write a policy that has a clear mandate about when they can be applied.

Speaker:

That's the right thing.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Uh, okay.

Speaker:

Um Oh, actually, there was one other thing I did want to mention,

Speaker:

um, there was a business which, now you've heard of employees being

Speaker:

sacked for not being vaccinated.

Speaker:

Oh, yeah, the Church of Ubuntu.

Speaker:

The Church of Ubuntu sacked an employee because she was vaccinated.

Speaker:

Yeah, well, let's put it this way there.

Speaker:

Grasp on, um, science is Fairly limited.

Speaker:

They're heavily into the alternative medicine.

Speaker:

Sorry, so called alternative medicine, which gets abbreviated to SCAM.

Speaker:

So this woman was working for the church, which runs a wellness clinic, that

Speaker:

sells medicinal hemp products, and she was a client consultant for 12 months,

Speaker:

but she was dismissed after her boss found out she had received the jab.

Speaker:

A letter from the church's vice president praised her work and said

Speaker:

getting a vaccination was inconsistent with its religious teachings.

Speaker:

It's, uh, in their words, conscientiously and deliberately

Speaker:

with intent is in contradiction with our constitution and contrary

Speaker:

to our position on what is required of us by our Lord God and Creator.

Speaker:

And, no doubt, this is a genuinely held religious belief

Speaker:

and therefore Religious freedom.

Speaker:

Religious freedom.

Speaker:

And it doesn't really matter whether it's complete nonsense, it's just,

Speaker:

is that a genuinely held belief?

Speaker:

In which case, sack her.

Speaker:

So, as this article says, The debate about the proposed religious discrimination

Speaker:

bill often neglects to acknowledge religious institutions are already

Speaker:

permitted to make discriminatory hiring and firing decisions so long as they are

Speaker:

motivated, by their religious beliefs.

Speaker:

Um, that's according to Jolene Reilly Munton, a professor in the Faculty of Law

Speaker:

at the University of Technology, Sydney.

Speaker:

Um, she said religions did not have to prove their reasons are valid according

Speaker:

to some measure of objective rationality.

Speaker:

They just have to establish that they took their decision in good faith to avoid

Speaker:

injury to the religious susceptibilities of adherence of that religion or creed.

Speaker:

There you go.

Speaker:

So, Alison has gone off again in the chat room.

Speaker:

You're feisty tonight, Alison.

Speaker:

Oh dear.

Speaker:

So yeah, there we go.

Speaker:

As long as it's your religious belief.

Speaker:

Oh sorry, it's your belief on religion.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Sack people.

Speaker:

Incredible.

Speaker:

This is where we're at in Australia.

Speaker:

Other countries would be appalled.

Speaker:

Apparently the ABC.

Speaker:

Uh, each year broadcasts Christmas messages from religious groups, and this

Speaker:

year, just gone, they broadcast the one from, uh, Brian Houston of Hillsong, as

Speaker:

part of a Christmas message on the ABC.

Speaker:

For fuck's sake.

Speaker:

Can you not, as an editorial decision, just say, we are

Speaker:

not going to help this group?

Speaker:

Totally could.

Speaker:

Well Um, they did allow John Dixon to pen some article about why Jesus was real.

Speaker:

Right, yes.

Speaker:

Why you've seen people believe that Jesus is real.

Speaker:

And that was on ABC, yeah.

Speaker:

That was on ABC too.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Um, actually, got an interesting statistic my son came across.

Speaker:

Here's a good argument.

Speaker:

When we talk about how many people are religious, and we look at the census

Speaker:

where people Declare whether they have a religious affiliation or not.

Speaker:

I reckon this is a good test.

Speaker:

Whether you choose a civil celebrant for your marriage or a religious celebrant.

Speaker:

Like, that's really part of whether you're a practicing, believing, religious person.

Speaker:

I mean, if you truly believe in a religion and are a follower, you would not be

Speaker:

getting married by a civil celebrant.

Speaker:

And, um, The 2020 figures are out from the Australian Bureau

Speaker:

of Statistics, and 80 percent of Australians chose a civil celebrant.

Speaker:

That's a big proportion, I think, yep, so, um, um, so yeah, I've got the statistics

Speaker:

there, and when we're really talking about genuine religious belief, surely.

Speaker:

If you are getting married, you would have a religious celebrant

Speaker:

if you're a true believer.

Speaker:

It was interesting to see 20 years ago how high it was.

Speaker:

Um, yeah.

Speaker:

It was 75 percent religious, I think.

Speaker:

Um, let me see.

Speaker:

I'll pull that up on the screen.

Speaker:

Let me see here.

Speaker:

So Oh no, 50%.

Speaker:

I hope you got it there.

Speaker:

Let me see.

Speaker:

2000 was 50 percent civil celebrants.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

52.

Speaker:

8.

Speaker:

And 2010, 69.

Speaker:

2020, 80%.

Speaker:

Now, I wouldn't mind doing, uh, satanic religious ceremonies

Speaker:

down the track in my retirement.

Speaker:

That could be fun, I reckon.

Speaker:

There could be some really cool people who would want that.

Speaker:

So, that's on the agenda.

Speaker:

It's very, very difficult to get registered as a Because you have to have

Speaker:

a full course that's deemed the equivalent of The Civil Registrant, um, course.

Speaker:

How hard is that thing?

Speaker:

I think that's a two week course.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

As I said, in retirement, it can't be that hard.

Speaker:

It's a lot easier to do what the Pastavarians are doing and

Speaker:

become civil celebrant, who do a religious themed ceremony.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Um, what else have we got here?

Speaker:

I think that is the main ones to get through.

Speaker:

It's 9.

Speaker:

10, we've gone for an hour and 40 minutes.

Speaker:

We've kept Shea out of the Shark Tank yet again.

Speaker:

Uh, let me get rid of that screen.

Speaker:

She's not Shea the Subversive, she's Shark Tank Shea, isn't she?

Speaker:

Yeah, well, either one.

Speaker:

Steel Wolf has posted a joke twice.

Speaker:

Shall we hear it?

Speaker:

Yeah, what was it?

Speaker:

Why don't ants get COVID?

Speaker:

Why?

Speaker:

Antibodies.

Speaker:

Laugh on.

Speaker:

Very good.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Well, good on you in the chat room.

Speaker:

You've been going off in there and, um, uh, that's good to see.

Speaker:

Uh, we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.

Speaker:

I don't know what I'm going to do next week.

Speaker:

Um, I might even speak to the Velvet Glove.

Speaker:

I haven't mentioned it to him.

Speaker:

But we'll see what we've got organized.

Speaker:

Um, uh, I read this book, which I was sure I was going to end

Speaker:

up doing a book review on.

Speaker:

And.

Speaker:

I actually wasted a fair number of days in the holidays.

Speaker:

You know when you get a book and you think, Oh, I'm

Speaker:

starting to, it's hard work.

Speaker:

I really persevered with it.

Speaker:

And it was a book that was really talking about, this is progression in human

Speaker:

evolution that says, we were hunter gatherers and we were egalitarian.

Speaker:

Then when we discovered agriculture and we formed cities, we then had

Speaker:

hierarchies which led to inequality.

Speaker:

And it was just a sort of a natural thing of, once we coalesced together,

Speaker:

we had inequality and hierarchy.

Speaker:

And the book was basically showing lots of examples, particularly in

Speaker:

South America and North American Indian tribes, where they got quite

Speaker:

large, were hunter gatherers, were not agrarian, but um, quite large cities,

Speaker:

and they were quite egalitarian.

Speaker:

Anyway, I persevered with it, and it was really hard work.

Speaker:

I spent a lot of hours on it.

Speaker:

And, and then Then I got to the footnotes, or the endnotes.

Speaker:

Like, there was, there was like 40 pages of endnotes.

Speaker:

I was working my way through those.

Speaker:

It's crazy, I know.

Speaker:

As I tell it, it's ridiculous.

Speaker:

Anyway, I've, one of the footnotes was about, uh, referred to Bruce

Speaker:

Pascoe and his book Dark Emu, and was glowing about, about it.

Speaker:

And I was like, oh no!

Speaker:

If you guys writing this book have taken Bruce Pascoe's word on all his stuff,

Speaker:

Then I can't trust any of the stuff that you've said about any of these North

Speaker:

American and South American tribes at all And I was like, oh just wasted so many

Speaker:

hours I should have just abandoned it So I

Speaker:

stopped reading and started doing watercolors then on my holidays

Speaker:

Yeah, there you go, so there's a lesson for you if you're working

Speaker:

if a book becomes just hard work give up early That's what you've

Speaker:

done Alright, dear listener.

Speaker:

Suncoast fallacy.

Speaker:

Yeah, it was indeed.

Speaker:

Yep, I fell for that one.

Speaker:

Alright, dear listeners, in the chat room, thanks for your comments.

Speaker:

I'll be back next week with something and we'll be back with the panel in two weeks.

Speaker:

We'll talk to you then.

Speaker:

Bye for now.

Speaker:

Good night.

Speaker:

That's a good night from him.

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube