EPISODE SUMMARY:

In this episode, Dr. Jane sits down with Dr. Elissa Chambers to unpack the vagus nerve, nervous system regulation, and how all of it connects to fertility. From breathwork and yoga to ear massages and emotional healing, they explore how low vagal tone shows up in digestion, hormones, sleep, and stress and how to build it back up. You’ll also hear how beliefs like “resting makes me lazy” can keep your body stuck in overdrive, and why slowing down is often the hardest but most powerful medicine. They share real patient examples, daily practices, and one-liners you’ll want to write down. If you’re tired of being told to “just relax,” this episode gives you the science and strategy behind why that advice actually matters.

ABOUT DR. JANE’S PRACTICE:

Dr. Jane is a Naturopathic Doctor and a Natural Fertility Expert. She and her team of expert practitioners help couples navigate infertility for 1+ years, get to the root cause of their struggles, heal, and bring healthy babies home.

After having a family member struggle with infertility and experiencing a miscarriage herself, Dr. Jane realized how little support and education women receive. She is on a mission to change that. Since 2020, she has dedicated her practice to fertility, where she and her practitioners work with couples 1:1, running functional lab work, customizing treatment plans and providing her couples with the support they need to get pregnant, have a stress free pregnancy and a healthy baby.

Learn more about Dr. Jane’s practice: www.drjanelevesque.com/practice

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CHAPTERS:

00:00 Understanding the Vagus Nerve and Its Importance

03:01 Vagal Tone: The Key to Stress Management

06:00 The Connection Between Relaxation and Fertility

09:00 Exploring Core Beliefs and Their Impact on Health

11:54 The Gut-Brain Connection and Intuition

14:49 Empowering Patients to Trust Their Bodies

17:58 Understanding Heart Rate Variability and Vagal Tone

20:54 Lifestyle Changes for Stress Management

23:57 Complex Cases and Holistic Approaches

26:54 The Journey of Health and Well-being

30:06 Personalized Care in Chiropractic Practice

TAKEAWAYS:

The vagus nerve is the longest cranial nerve and crucial for autonomic functions.

Vagal tone is similar to muscle tone; higher tone means better stress management.

Practices like diaphragmatic breathing can enhance vagal tone.

Emotional beliefs can hinder relaxation and affect health.

The gut-brain connection is vital for overall well-being.

Stress responses can impact fertility and reproductive health.

Individualized care is essential for effective treatment.

Healing is a non-linear journey that requires patience.

Lifestyle changes can significantly improve vagal tone.

Understanding one's body and instincts is key to health.

ABOUT NATURAL FERTILITY:

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If you’ve struggling with infertility, pregnancy loss, women’s health issues or just want to be proactive and prepare yourself for the next big chapter in your life… this show is for you.

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Individualized care is essential for effective treatment of chronic fertility issues.

Hi guys, welcome to another episode of Natural Fertility with Dr. Jane. I of course am Dr. Jane and today I'm joined by one of my with one of my practitioners, Dr. Elisa Chambers. Thanks for being here girl. I'm excited to chat again.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

What are we gonna talk about? What do the people of the internet need to hear today?

Yes, so the vagus nerve and the gut brain, how it's all connected, I think it's been kind of a recurring theme or a recurring trend over the last few years. And I think it would just be beneficial to kind of understand how that works in your body and how it can be related to your fertility journey.

Yeah, the vagus nerve is huge. And I think that's something that I did not. I mean, I just didn't really think it was that important. So until now I'm like, the vagus nerve is really not functioning properly. And you know, the per the person needs a lot of nervous system, regulation. And then of course it's all connected to the nervous system and the gut and hormones and all of it. So tell us like, what do we need to know? let's do the basics. Like, what do we need to know about the vagus nerve? Why do we need to know about it?

Yeah, so, yeah, first, the vagus nerve, it's the 10th cranial nerve and the longest cranial nerve. It's huge. Like you said, other than just knowing about it, it is huge. It starts at your brain stem and it extends all the way down to your colon, innervating almost every single one of your vital organs. So it's really important in our body's processes and our autonomic system. So when we say autonomic, that's like auto. So what is your body doing that you don't really have to think about?

It's like your heartbeat in your breathing, your hormone regulation, your digestion, yes, all of that stuff that you don't have to think about doing that your body just already does. So the vagus nerve is really important in regulating that and then controlling your parasympathetic nervous system. So the part of your nervous system that's like rest, digest, heal, reproduce, and just controlling those functions within our systems.

digestion.

Yep. Versus fight or flight. I love the auto connection that you made. I was like, that's a great way to remember it. I do not remember remembering that way. So that's really great. How do we, you know, how does it get out of whack? How do we know if it needs support? How do we support it? You know, let's just kind of start having conversations. And I always like to pull in some case studies. So if you have some share them and then I'll share some of mine around the vagus nerve and all that jazz.

Yeah. Yeah. It is. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, absolutely. So when we look at the vagus nerve, we can talk about vagal tone within your body. It's very similar. A good way to look at it is like it's similar to like muscle tone, right? So if you increase your muscle tone, you're working the muscle, you can take on more of a load. So if you have an increased vagal tone, you can take on more of a load in the sense of like stressors happening within our body. On the opposite hand, if you have a low vagal tone, then your body doesn't have as

good regulation of taking on those stressors. So that leads right back to what we already talked about. So poor digestion, poor hormone balance, energy levels. If you have really low energy levels, that can signal decreased tone. And so it's almost like the muscle that you're working is you want to work your vagus nerve and those functions to increase that vagal tone so that your body has an easier response to everyday stressors that are going to naturally happen to you anyways.

Yeah. And I find it's hard to like, I think everyone needs vagal, vagus nerve toning support because we live in such a, in everybody that we meet have stress. And that's why, you know, couples, if you've been struggling with infertility for a while and someone tells you to relax, there is some truth to that. It's just ignorant in the way that it's being presented because at the end of the day, I think all of us need to relax, but understanding why your system is in that fight or flight.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

is kind of that first step. And then what are the practices that you can have every day or every week or every month or every quarter, whatever, to reset the nervous system or to help it so then you can, you know, I mean, not just fertility, but like age better, feel better, enjoy life more, all of those things.

Yeah.

Yeah, a good example for that is like when they tell you to like don't stress about it or just breathe or just whatever. So I teach yoga as well and something that I find was really hard for me at the beginning of my practice journey and a lot of people struggle with as well is when you go into the room before class and it's just quiet other than like the meditative music and everybody else around you is just like laying on their mat with their eyes closed. Like last week I had a student come out and she was like I'm gonna get water. I don't need water but like

I don't know what to do, everyone around me just laying down. And I'm like, yes, that's a muscle you have to work. You have to be comfortable going in there and laying down for five, 10 minutes, eyes open, eyes closed, without letting all of these other things that are happening around you. And that's working your vagus nerve. That's working your vagal tone and that muscle to be able to kind of not disassociate, but to let things happen around you and just be within your body.

No.

And so it's really, really hard for people that have never done it. And similar to like what we talked about on our first podcast is children are really good at doing these things. And then we're almost taught throughout our life to not be as good as these things. So sometimes you have to retrain yourself. And something that you've been talking about all week is lay down on your floor for five minutes. Just do it and see. Yes. Yes.

We literally made that recommendation to a couple of patients this week and like Dr. Nicole is like, well, I don't know. It's like tell her to lie down on the floor for five minutes a day. Like that's it. I don't care. Put the Christmas tree on, like just lay there.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

and someone whose nervous system is stuck in flight or flight is gonna have a really hard time doing that. And five minutes doesn't seem like a long time, but that will make it feel like it's a long time. Yeah?

Yes.

I have a really hard time doing it. Yeah. I started doing yoga as I've been talking about. And a lot of the time she's like, you're just going to lay there and breathe. And I'm like, well, let me just stretch a little while I breathe. You know, so it is hard.

Yeah.

Exactly, it's really hard for us to do that. And that is something that is like a simple but not simple practice that you can do to kind of tap into it and kind of work that vagus nerve muscle.

Yeah, I love that. it is, so there is the simple things or I think it's what you're getting at. Like it is a sign of that vagus nerve, not having good tone when you have a hard time to relax. And so then I always like to dig kind of into the beliefs around what do you believe about yourself when you relax? Because if we're looking at changing a behavior and a bunch of our behaviors, the things that we do every day are really our habits.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

and our habits are driven by our emotions and our emotions are driven by our beliefs, I always like, if I'm trying to change a habit, if I'm trying to create a new behavior, therefore change a habit, I have to understand what's underneath that. And a lot of the times there's anxiety, there's overwhelm, and then I'm always like, what's underneath that? And it's grief, it's sadness. I am not where I thought I would be. I feel broken. I have a lot of fear, like a lot of disappointment, a lot of shame, like you name it.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And then it's like, what is your belief about the world or yourself? And I've had numerous patients who are like stuck in fight or flight. And when we dig down and it's like, well, my parents never really let me go out and do stuff. They always protected me and love, and they did all of these things. And it's like, okay, so it sounds like you believe that the world isn't safe. Yeah, okay. Well, cause that's my parents' belief. Or I believe that if I'm lazy, if I'm not doing anything, I'm lazy.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And if I'm lazy, then I'm a failure. And then it's like, okay. So like, that's a pretty big core sentence, if you will, and pretty negative one. I've had people tell me like, wow, because I, this is how I trick them into telling me what they believe is I say, if you rest, then what? What's the first thing that comes into your brain? And they'll say like, if I, if I rest, I'm like, I'm not accomplishing anything. And if you're not accomplishing anything, then what?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Well, then I'm a failure, like, I suck and I'm missing out and I don't, I'm not living my full potential. And if you're not living your full potential, then what? And like, I'll just kind of keep going to try to understand and get to that core sentence. And that's changing that core sentence that goes, I think that the world isn't safe. Okay. Or I think if I'm not myself, then nobody will like me. Like I've literally had people say that and then they go,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Shit, I didn't think that that's what I was thinking. And I was like, it was pretty rough. Yes.

Yeah, and those are learned behaviors, right? That's a long time of exposure and almost feeling like that's a trauma to your body. And so then you have a stress response to it. And you can even take it back one step further. And it's like, okay, so like, how was your mom while she was pregnant with you? Was there, you know, something traumatic that happened to her, whether that's a physical trauma or an emotional trauma? Like, I always tell people, yeah.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Or did she also believe that you shouldn't rest because if I rest I'm lazy?

Yeah, know, stressed moms have stressed babies. And so it can, you can take it back. You can take it back. Like you could keep going back, but a lot of these things that are causing your vagus nerve not to work efficiently or have dysregulation is these long exposures to trauma that just sets the precedent within your body.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I think too, like we all have trauma, right? Dr. Gabor Matei I think talks about the big T, little T. There's lots of other practitioners like big trauma versus little trauma. And it's not, I also think that we want to acknowledge those things, but then like, what are we going to do about it? Like, this is the belief that got handed out to me, knowing that you can actually change it. And there's some like really fantastic books out there learning and understanding what your core beliefs are about yourself or the world.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

and then how to reprogram that. But part of that is creating space to actually just be still and then maybe recognizing and going, I'm actually not very good at being still. So then maybe five minutes is too much. Maybe we start with 60 seconds. And then in a week we go, we double that. And then, you know, we add another 30 seconds and then see if we can get that nervous system just a little bit more grounded.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and sometimes the hardest thing is like not having something to do for your brain. It's like our brains want to be doing something. So that's why meditation a lot of times is really hard for people when they first get started. So if it is starting with just 60 seconds, even if that's hard for you, adding in something like the diaphragmatic breathing where you have to think, okay, inhale.

And then exhale. And so you're giving your body a job. You're giving your brain a job, but then it also is grounding and it's allowing you to hold space for yourself. Something as simple as morning sunlight. So even if you're just like sitting there, not on your phone, not listening to anything else and you take 60 seconds and then work your way up to the five minutes of being in the sun in the morning.

that can work your vagal tone just as much as just laying on the ground can. So there's a lot of different ways that you can stimulate it. It's more so of making it a routine and making it a practice, just like you would be going to the gym and working your quads, right? If you want to grow your quads, you got to work your quads. If you want to grow your vagal tone, increase your vagal tone, you have to work your vagus nerve.

We need one liners. you want to grow your vagal tone, you need to grow your vagal tone. And here's how you're going to do it. I love it. Yeah. I mean, why would somebody want to grow their vagal tone? Like, why is that a thing that you should do?

Yeah, so that will, like, goes back to those autonomic things that our body is doing. It's just gonna help you regulate those easier. So you'll notice better digestion. You'll notice increase in your energy levels. You'll notice better hormone regulation. You'll notice better stress response to things. So maybe something that may have annoyed you about, let's say your partner, six months ago, you have an easier...

They can be annoying, you know?

Yeah, they could, but you have an easier time of accepting stressors from the outside world and not getting overwhelmed by those types of things. So we're always going to have those responses happening within our body, but it's about how your body takes in that stressor and then releases the stressor.

Yes.

Yeah, in the fertility space, like reproduction, you can totally get pregnant in the sympathetic zone, if you will, but chances are if you're struggling with fertility, that's where your parents were. And so now it's, it's, you can still get pregnant, but it's usually not the pregnancy that you want or the labor or the postpartum period because you're in such fight or flight and part of pregnancy is really surrendering.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And I think part of the fertility journey is actually preparing you for that surrender that has to happen through each kind of phase and not just trimester, but like with every week, your body challenges you to surrender more and more to the baby. And then of course, the actual birth and the labor is when the woman has to go, it has nothing to do with me and I have to surrender completely and let this, you know, this soul come through.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

You can't surrender when you're gripping on, you know? And so I do think that's a big part of the practice is learning how to let go and how to surrender and how to find your intuition and instinct and rest and be okay with that as opposed to driving into how do I make this happen? What do I need to do? It's like, you need to go lie down on the floor. That's what you need to do.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. And then that instinct, it's also like working that gut muscle. So like trusting your instinct and you know, like a woman's instinct and a mother's instinct is far superior than what anybody else is gonna tell you. And that's something that I talk to my patients about all the time. As I'm like, okay, so then, so what do you think? And then you shut up and you allow them to like, okay, so like, what did I think? What did my gut say? And that is your gut brain connection, right?

Like the vagus nerve is 80 % afferent.

So that means that all the things that are happening in those vital organs are going back up to the brain rather than the brain is making a connection and sending it to your organs. So you get 20 % of that brain back that efferent effect, but that's a huge percent of like your organs and your gut and all of those things are going to be signaling things to your brain. And that's what we mean by like, listen to your gut. Like your gut is telling your brain things 80 % of the time.

Yeah. There's science behind it. There's actually science. It's funny because one of my clients that I met with yesterday, they're in this phase where we're starting to try to conceive and they're like kind of on their third month and it hasn't, and usually after three months I'm like, we need to look. And this was the conversation of like, here's what I think is happening. But before I do that, I'm always like, tell me, what do you think? Like, what do you think is still missing? Why do you think this isn't working? You know?

Yes, they're science! Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And she was actually able to answer me and she's like, I think there's some progesterone that's, and she just kind of gave me her, you know, like her thoughts. And I'm like, this is incredible progress because before, when I asked you, you're like, I have no idea. And when I sit down and the first question that I'll ask, you know, when we have our strategy sessions and we meet with our, you know, future patients, if you will, is, Hey, why do think you've been struggling for so long?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And the question, the answer to that question tells me a lot about where they are in their journey from like, for the woman. she's like, I have no idea. And like genuinely, I have no idea. Then I'm still trying to pry in there because I'm like, yeah, but don't you like, what do you think? And this is a, like a woman or a couple that has given their, the, the power to someone else entirely.

And I'm like, and how, you know, how broken is that that we sit there in front of doctors who are like, we know better than your body. And so your hormones are all messed up. Let us do this for you. Cause your body doesn't know how to do it. It's like, a terrible message, you know, to send to, to your patients that are genuinely, you know, trying to figure out why they can't conceive. And you're like, it's cause you're broken. Let me just like, that's essentially what they're saying, you know?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But not necessarily broken, but there's just things that need to be addressed, things that can work and function better. mean, our bodies were made to do this stuff. Like our bodies are far more intelligent than our minds can even fathom or even science hasn't even caught up yet. Right. And so, yeah. So it's, it's really important to create that relationship with your own body because there are those things that

Comprehend? yeah. I know, it has not cut up.

your body will tell you, you just have to be open enough to hear it.

Yep, for sure. And that's hard. Tell me what from like as a Cairo, what are you, what are some tips and tricks you have for stimulating a vagus nerve besides like, you know, lay in still because we're going to kind of go through it there's so many things that we can do. So the lane still coming down, get becoming aware of your nervous system. as a Cairo, what are, what are some things that you have done for your patients and do yourself? Probably.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, something that I did for every single one of my patients is heart rate variability. So I had a test that, you clip it on your finger, it's an ECG test. It measures your heart rate over three minutes, and then it gives us like a very small window into where is your nervous system landing? Are you stuck in that sympathetic? Because if you're just sitting there, right, and we're just staring at each other, and it's over three minutes, like you shouldn't be up in your sympathetics. Your bodies shouldn't be, if per...

It depends on the person. would find, some people would find that very stressful. I have to just sit there. She's staring at me.

pretending like.

That's true. That's also very true. I never thought about it that way. Try to make it as calm as possible, right? But like, if you're not running from a bear, you shouldn't be stuck in your sympathetic. So not everybody has access to that.

my aura ring tells me about my heart rate variability. So it's measuring that and showing changes based on my menstrual cycle or my workouts or things that are causing other stressors to my body. But if you don't have a device, like a good way to...

kind of like start thinking about where your vagal tone could be is looking at like the symptom clusters. So like we discussed before, a good increased vagal tone is like dealing with stress response, having a good digestion, good hormone balance, sleeping, are you sleeping well at night? And if it's the opposite, right, you're not digesting things well, you're waking up in the middle of the night, you're not able to fall asleep, you're...

you you feel like you're just testy and things are really bothering you, that could signal to us that decreased vagal tone. And so the biggest thing that we talk to people about all the time is those lifestyle changes.

So what are things that you are doing that could cause inflammation happening within your body or that are causing more stress to you? So does your job cause more stress? Does your partner cause more stress? Is family causing more stress? Not necessarily taking everything away, but learning what those stressors are and allowing your body to work through it and to help you regulate it. And so that's probably the biggest thing, but that's not gonna just change overnight.

Right? So those things that you can do like laying down for five minutes, adding in that diaphragmatic breathing, taking it one step further. Once you get good at that diaphragmatic breathing, working on creating throat vibration during the diaphragmatic breathing. So on your exhales, it almost is like you're constricting within the back of your throat and it will begin to sound audible, but it's creating that vibration in your throat. If that doesn't feel comfortable, gargling.

humming, that can all be good things that can stimulate that good Vegas tone. The sunlight, so sunlight in the morning, getting that five to 10 minutes just to like work your circadian rhythm with the sun is important. Exercise, so regular two to three times a week. Whatever exercise feels good to you.

Right, that's different for everybody. Obviously we like to mix things in. I really love yoga, but I also weight train because I know that there's different benefits to those different types of things. And then the vagus nerve starts out of the brain stem and has those innervations into the ear and into the neck. So, ear massages. So if you just massage your own ears... Yes, they do!

For sure.

Ear massages feel so good. Get your partner to do it. It's like it melts you. Like you see why cats and like dogs, love ear massages. I don't know if they have the same, they same anatomy. Obviously I'm not a vet, but like you get a good ear massage going and the cat is like, you know.

They do.

Yeah.

Uh-huh, uh-huh. But that's like to the point of like babies and animals, they're just working on instinct, right? So they already know that that stuff's good because they haven't learned to think otherwise. So we can kind of look to them to be like, okay, like that could be, that could be important. But so obviously the lifestyle changes are the biggest thing. And then picking maybe one of those things that we just went through and just trying to work that muscle every day. And it will get easier and it...

it will become more of like a routine for you and then you will start to notice things changing in your body, like without even trying. You may notice your digestion's better or you're sleeping better or if you are tracking your heart rate variability that that stuff could get better as well.

Yeah, and to, you know, I think the simplicity of it is incredible and we should always try to like find the most simple solution. Cause I actually think that's the one that's usually the most effective. The kind of I'll play the devil's advocate is for those who are doing all of those things. And you're like, I'm not getting any better. What I will say and what I, you know, we've seen in practice, especially in the last kind of three years, I would say.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

is the cases are a lot more complex and there's a lot more issues going on at hand, if you will. And so like working on digestion might mean so lowing down and sitting down and eating, but it can also mean doing a parasite cleanse or, you know, if you have ureoplasma or like BV or you have another chronic, like mold, chronic inflammation, chronic infection, getting those things out of the body will...

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

start to help you regulate as well, because all bugs have energy and the energy of, you know, a parasite versus a bacterial infection versus mold is different, but it is still a a quote, negative energy. It makes you feel like you're not yourself. When we have those outbursts of emotions, usually it's like, I shouldn't have done that. That's not me. And it's like, you're right. It's not you. It is something though, within the microbiome and there is something that, you know, needs to be addressed. And so you might have to pull in.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Exactly.

all of these other things. And even Herb's, you I have a client that I can't remember. I think it was Monday that we chatted and he's like, I'm having a hard time managing stress. And it's like, you're actually just trying to do too many things. And that's why you're having a hard time. You're trying to be a superhero and they're running a company and you know, they want another baby. They already have a family. Like there's just a lot on the go. And it's like, okay, but it actually just sounds, you need to hire some help out. That's all that is.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

And so sometimes it's hard for us to see what the solution is. And then, then if you have a hard time, then I'm like, have you tried CBD oil? Have you tried Agaba? Have you tried L-theanine? And again, this is where we use the testing because not everybody's gonna benefit from everything, but certain people will do really well on, you know, this nutrient and whether that's ashwagandha or rhodiola or agaba, it will help introduce that like, this is what it's like to feel relaxed. So then you can, you know, get the most out of your practice.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, because healing is not linear and we have to peel back those layers, right? And each person's gonna be so different. So what worked for one person is not gonna work for the other person and vice versa. So it's really important to have the whole picture because in combination with a lot of the things that we do with our clients and then working on the nervous system regulation can be super beneficial, but it's just about seeing what's right for each person at which time.

Yeah. Yeah. And I, know, the biggest advice and I've kind of had to still constantly learning this myself, but have to remind myself and remind my patients is like, there is no end journey. I think that's when we get into trouble. Cause you're like, when does this end? Like, when do I have to stop being healthy? I mean, whenever you want to die from chronic disease, I don't know. Like you can stop whenever I think I really look at the body.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

the physical body as the way that we get to experience life on this planet. And so it is a reflection, know, in a world reflects out a world. And so whatever is going on internally will show up in the body physically, or, you know, the thoughts that you have or the emotions that you feel on a regular basis. I know I'm a nerd for all of this stuff, but I genuinely have seen like family members not experience life to their fullest because of how sick they were or having

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I saw this on the podcast. It's like, it's fine. Like whenever I'm fine from dying from heart disease or whatever, it's like, you're not dying as soon as you get heart disease. You live with heart disease and all the implications that come with that, the complications for 10, 20 years. And so the last couple of decades of your life become miserable. And I think people don't realize that because it's not like overnight it's miserable. It's the slow.

Mm-hmm.

Like, I guess I can't walk up the stairs that fast. Or I guess I just have the sexist weight. I have, I guess, a little bit of brain fog. it's just age or it's just this. And next thing you know, it's like your quality of life is so low and you're like, but I'm just older now. You know, so I really think about all of those things of you're not just, what do you mean there's an end light? You know, end to this journey. It's like the end of the journey is when you die.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And so it's like, what do you want to experience in this life and how do you want to experience it? And when you have a really healthy body, the way that you experience world is so different. I was thinking about my kids and like they did not take, and I'll do a knock on wood, they didn't take a single like sick day since they started in September. And the times that we are blocking off is when we go on vacation. That's the days that they miss for school.

Yeah.

not the days that they're sick. And you think about that and you're just like, man, there's people who can't even travel because every time they travel, they get sick. You know, and it's just like, that's nuts. You don't get to experience the world and life because, you know, your body doesn't let you.

Yeah.

Yeah? And if you're sick, you can't experience that with your kids either.

No, yeah. No, that's it. And I mean, the kids, then it's, my daughter, remember like when she first started school, he's like, mom, what are allergies? Because everybody has allergies. And she's like, do I have allergies? Can I have allergies? I'm like, no, you don't want allergies. Like, it's almost like, it's cool to have allergies. And it's like, no, it's not cool to have an allergy to a dog or a cat or food or.

Yeah?

No, no.

Mm-hmm.

whatever, you know, going outside, to the outside. Like when people are like, I'm allergic to the sun. I'm like, do you know how bad that is? Like that's seed oil central and vitamin D deficiency central and like no collagen or protein for the skin to actually be able to make the, what is it, melanin to make the skin darker instead of just like burn. It's like, those are issues with what your body is made of, not the sun. The sun has been around way before you were here.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Exactly.

Yeah, 100%.

I don't know how we've heard there, but here we are. No, but just talking about the vagus nerve as a whole, you know, like that's what I was, that's how my brain of thought was, like, it is really how you're going to experience life and your ability to experience it. And if you're always experiencing it from a place of fight or flight, then that's like, you're driving at a, you know, at full speed, you're driving your car at full speed all the time. And I'd love to say that you could do that for forever.

Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

but that's not how it works, you know?

Right? And another, I guess, one-liner that I tell my patients all the time is like, if you're running from a bear, are you gonna be able to digest the sandwich that you had for lunch? No. So if your body is stuck up here all of the time, all of those other important, but seemingly less important to your body because it's working through something is not gonna happen. And so when we're talking about digestion and hormone balance and if you're here and you're running from a bear all of the time,

your body's not gonna want to create life. Your body's not gonna want to go through those autonomic systems as easily. And so, yeah, I mean, I say that all the time. Like, I should probably get it printed on a shirt, but.

Yeah, that's it. But totally being honest, like your body doesn't think it's important to digest the sandwich because your body thinks it's running from a bear. That's it. Yeah, it's prioritizing. What about from like manipulation, whether, you know, cervical manipulation, spinal or visceral manipulation, anything that you've seen or like or do?

It's prioritizing.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so it's going to be a little bit different for everybody and how everybody's body responds. So a chiropractic adjustment can be really beneficial to, you know, take any interference off of any of those nerve pathways. But someone could also benefit from something that's a little bit maybe less invasive, like craniosacral therapy or acupuncture or, you know, a massage. So I think...

I love hearing this from Akairo because usually, right? Like that's really powerful. And this is one of the reasons that I hired you. And I was like, we need to bring her on the team because you weren't like, I just crack everybody all the time. And not that Akairo say that, but you're like, here's how my thought processes and here's how I treat. And I'm like, yes. So it's really powerful.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think, you know, sometimes you can get stuck in a box and be like, my way's the best way, but I think everybody's human.

Yes.

is different and everybody's body's interpretation of things is different. And so what might work really well for me, like a manipulation for me works really, really well, but that might not work really well for somebody else. And so that's something that I always strive to do is like meet the person where they are. And so if you're coming in and there's a lot of different types of adjustments that can stimulate things in different ways that aren't just what we think of as like what I like to call TikTok chiropractic.

you know, of like, we're just gonna pop every bone in the body and see what happens, you know, and everybody's... I'm sure, I'm sure. But you know, that's the interpretation that a lot of people see. But I just, and that's what I tell everybody too, is your body's gonna respond to things different than the person that's sitting next to you. And we just need to listen to what your body needs. And while yes, the adjustment can be really beneficial, maybe somebody needs something that's not gonna send them.

There are some really good TikToks out there though.

like up and down as quickly like craniosacral therapy where it's a little bit less intense on the system, if that makes sense.

Yeah, and yeah, for sure. It might help people relax a little bit more. I love that you're saying this as a Cairo because I've had a lot of, one of my couples right now, they're like, so we found this new Cairo and we just realized that our other Cairo wasn't very good. Good. I'm glad. And I think, I don't want to, because I used to be those, practitioner that didn't test and that guest, and I think there's stepping stones.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

to us as practitioners in development. And I'm always like challenging myself to learn more and to listen to the body and to the respond. But what you have to do if you want to be a really in tune practitioner is actually like do a lot of work on yourself. And then you have to be humble enough to admit when you're wrong. And I think that is very, very difficult for people to do and for practitioners to do, because there's a lot of status, there's a lot of ego, there's a lot of that stuff that's associated with it. And so to be able to go.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

maybe my approach that I've used for the last 10 years isn't working. Like, do you know how humbling that is? It's like, it hasn't been working, you know, but we, do see that all the time.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah? Yeah? Yeah?

Yeah, and that's why the one size fits all approach doesn't always work because everything needs to be personalized to your body, right? And why we run the tests that we run to see what bugs or things that you have in your body because we can guess and we can give you a protocol, but it's not gonna work for everybody. And some people it'll work great for.

Yep, that's it. Thank you, Dr. Lisa. This was really great. I learned a lot and we had some good one-liners, so hopefully they can get all caught up and posted on socials. No, but thank you so much. I'm looking forward to connecting with you again. It's always cool to like learn from one another. And this is just like the only time that we get to actually just like sit down the two of us and chat through some things. So I always appreciate that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

you go, yes.

Yeah? Yeah, that's great. Thank you.