If you’ve ever felt like no matter how hard you work, you still feel exhausted, stuck, or unmotivated — this episode will shift everything you thought you knew about burnout.

In this deeply grounding conversation, I, Nikisha King, sit down with Kathryn Spears, a Neurosomatic Intelligence Practitioner, to uncover what’s really happening beneath the surface of burnout — and why mindset alone isn’t enough to create sustainable change.

Kathryn shares her personal story of anxiety, perfectionism, and constant performance pressure — and how learning to regulate her nervous system completely transformed her business, her energy, and her peace.

Together, we explore the connection between your body and your business, and how restoring safety in your nervous system helps you show up with clarity, confidence, and creativity. Because sometimes the thing that’s holding you back isn’t your strategy — it’s your state.

You’ll walk away from this episode understanding how to slow down without losing momentum, how to create safety in your success, and how to finally build a business that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside.

In This Episode, You’ll Takeaway:

• Why burnout is often a sign of a dysregulated nervous system, not a lack of effort
• How to use small, science-backed tools like breathwork and mouth taping to increase energy
• The link between safety, visibility, and leadership in your business
• Why nervous system alignment is the secret to sustainable success
• How to simplify your workflow to avoid overwhelm and create consistency

Enjoy a special gift from Kathryn Spears: Uncover Your Subconscious Saboteurs with her special quiz.

Connect with Kathryn Spears:

• Website
• Instagram
• LinkedIn

If this episode spoke to you, it’s time to go deeper into your own transformation.

Join me inside The Disruptive Chronicles — a weekly love letter for women entrepreneurs who are ready to rise with alignment, clarity, and confidence.

👉🏾 Sign up for The Disruptive Chronicles here.

Let’s redefine what success feels like: calm, clear, and completely yours.

Welcome with your host and business guru, Nakisha King.

This podcast is the ultimate destination for women creative entrepreneurs who want to break free from burnout.

If you are overwhelmed by client demands and feel like you're doing this all alone, you, my friend, are in the right place.

Now let's dive in for steps to take back your time and self, simplify your workflow.

All right, Nikisha, take it away.

Hello, everyone.

Welcome to Iconic CEO Podcast, where free spirits go to learn systems.

My name is Nikisha.

I'm your host today and I have a special guest for you guys.

Her name is Katherine Spears.

Now I'm going to introduce Katherine Spears because she's very dynamic and I want you to get to know who she is, her power, and we're going to have a really good conversation about becoming an iconic CEO and how to allow your nervous system to work with you rather than against you.

So first and foremost, Katherine Spears is a neurosomatic intelligence practitioner.

She's also a director of marketing and communications as at Neurosematic Intelligence, the global leader in neurosomatics with a background in psychology and a passion for making brain science practical thinking.

Thank you very much.

Katherine helps high achieving female founders like you, disruptors and trailblazers who've done the inner work but still feel stuck, break free from repeating patterns and expand their capacity at a nervous system level.

After walking away from a thriving corporate marketing career in the startup world, Katherine discovered that true lasting transformation doesn't come from mindset alone.

It starts in the body.

Known for her direct, yet relatable approach, she bridges neuroscience and somatics into actionable tools that create sustainable change.

Whether she's coaching one on one, leading workshops, or speaking on stage, her mission is to help women feel safe being seen and heard, sparking a ripple effect that reshapes not just their lives, but the culture around them.

And based on the east coast of Canada, Katherine is a late diagnosed adher, mom of two, wife and dog lover, often found sipping kumbacha.

Katherine, welcome to the Iconic CEO podcast.

It's a pleasure to have you.

Thank you so much for having me, Nikisha.

Yes.

So tell us a little bit more about your somatic work.

Not your somatic but neurosomatic work.

How did you start or like, what came about for you to put you on this journey?

Yeah, I mean, my entire life, I can remember since I was 12, you know, being diagnosed with a flurry of random symptoms, gut issues, anxiety, depression, later in life, late diagnosed adhd.

But I always was really like high functioning and Go, go, go.

Do, do, do.

And one of the most pivotal moments was when I was on the C suite team at a fast paced agency and they brought in a mental health fitness group and we had to sit in silence for two minutes.

And that silence for two minutes, I thought I was actually going to combust.

And so in that moment I was like, oh, this is not how it's meant to be.

But when I was doing what you know, most people, quote unquote say is healing, you know, like breath work, meditation things, therapy sessions, sitting in silence, like feeling my feelings, that wasn't actually safe for me.

And I was moving into what I know now is another stress response.

So now I'm on this fierce mission to educate and support women on how to capitalize with their brain and apply neurology to go back further into the cycle and create safety at a physiological state level so that they can create sustainable change.

So in that moment I knew something is not okay.

And then the shame really spiraled me into like finding something that would support me in making change.

You say this shame, what are you referring to?

For me it's like there's so much that was being thrown out at me, you know, like, do this, do that, like get your steps in, drink this much water, wake up at 5am like, you know, the list goes on.

There's so many different things that are kind of thrown at us as ways or means to help us to feel better.

And I couldn't stick with those things because they weren't in alignment for me or I was moving into another stress response.

And so what that made me feel was something was wrong with me, right?

Because all of these other women were having success in meditating or doing breath work or going to a yoga class or sitting in a therapy session.

And for me it was like I felt like I was just spinning my tires on this never ending cycle repeating over and over again.

And so I really internalized that and, and felt like something was wrong with me, which came with a major shame response.

Let me ask you, what made you feel like you had to do all these things?

Like, what was the driving factor behind that made it feel like, like that's the part I want to know.

Because when we think about all those things, for me I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do all that.

Like, I'll just, I'll just do the one I want.

I don't got time for all that.

I'm really adamant about that.

But for you, there's something that I want.

My audience to hear because some women do feel like they need to do all the things and they have the same response you do.

So for you, what was that?

I think my, I mean, I thought I needed to be fixed.

I thought there was something wrong with me and it was just really my high achieving perfectionist patterns being projected onto my healing journey.

Right.

So instead of living those in my everyday life, which I still was, but it was like a deep rooted survival response that then was being cast over top of my healing journey, which I see with so many women that I work with, especially like high achieving type A perfectionists.

You know, they're like, okay, well I need the plan.

I need to do exactly what.

And it's a lot of outsourcing.

Our own inner wisdom and external validation, which are really nervous system protective responses.

Okay, so you're part of a series that I call but what if where I get to disrupt the thinking that we have in building our business, being very high achieving, iconic CEOs.

And I want to ask you a question, I want to ask you, but what if you're not stuck, you're just deregulated based on what you teaching.

So many high achieving women say, I've done the mindset work, I've invested in coaching, but I still feel like I'm looping back into the same pattern.

Can you help us understand what's actually happening in the nervous system when we feel stuck or resistance to change even when we know better?

You know, there's so many people go, I know, but I'm not doing it.

And I'm like, well, what's happening in the brain that's causing that?

Yes.

So there is a massive, for the brain.

Okay.

Number one, it's predictive.

And so it's really constantly looping on, taking in information, vetting if it's safe or, or unsafe at a subconscious level, and then deciding before conscious awareness if it is safe or unsafe based on like a number of different inputs and can be our respiration, our heart rate, past lived experiences, implicit bias.

Like there's so many, I call them like the rose colored glasses of the filtration system.

So we actually aren't even cognitively deciding safe or unsafe.

Our subconscious is.

And then we're either up to the prefrontal cortex, which is where we can make logical cognitive decisions, or we're in our like survival brain, where, you know, that's the part of the brain that's activated when we meet a bear in the woods, but it's often being activated when we're getting an email or we're seeing like a glance between two people and we sense that threat at a subconscious level.

And so the other piece.

So number one, it's the interpretation system based on predictions of our brain and past experiences, even if we don't cognitively remember.

And then the second piece to that is the resistance to change.

And for the brain, any change is very energetically taxing.

And so the brain will always choose the familiar, even the familiar, hell, right.

Over an unknown.

Even if cognitively we want this more than anything.

You know, we're on this fierce mission and then we see it come up in different coping mechanisms, different behavioral outputs.

Avoidance, procrastination, imposter syndrome, inner critic.

All of those things are really meant, meant to be protective patterns that hold you back from doing the thing or keeping you safe and connected to the herd.

Yeah, that's such a good.

I love the point that you bring up the brain through loving the safeness of it.

Right.

So even when you want to change, it is like, no, no, keep even in the hell, let's keep doing this.

I know this, I don't know that.

Right, exactly.

It's such a huge energetic cost.

And when we're low energy and a lot of high achieving women are at a physiological level, what ends up happening is the brain's like, no, no, we don't have energy for this.

We need to store our energy and keep doing the same thing.

Exactly.

So here's the thing also, I'm in a beautiful container where I'm in a mastermind, which I love creating for my community.

And capacity is what we talk about.

Because in what you've just described with the brain, it's really not about I can do hard things, it's about can I increase my capacity to shift the energy into the thing that I know will be better for me.

And what does that look like?

And it is an option, it is a choice.

And it's a choice you have to make consciously.

But you have to also fight for your choice.

It's like you are fighting your brain just to be able to live the life you want to.

Because if you don't, it will give you the status quo of what you've been conditioned to believe.

Right.

And it's so good when you are aware of this.

And I think we're bringing this to the awareness because some people don't realize that's the case.

So I want you to tell us what is some of the actions we can't take to push forward, to push out of the low energy Stay here where it's safe.

Because the reason I know it's possible is because I did it.

I remember sitting here and having that moment where I'm like, I'm playing it too small and this sucks and I had to go.

And I did have coaching communities.

I was in online, a sales group.

I was in one to one for my systems.

And even though I bought it for systems, that woman was doing some work on me that I didn't know, which I loved.

When I was in it, I didn't love it.

I was just like, no, that is not the case.

Right.

Like, but she was so patient with me and it changed my life.

But there was something happening that I don't know if I was ever aware of, that I literally pushed forward even.

And I don't feel like I, when I was in that moment with her, I'm going to be honest, the investments I had to make felt like they pulled me out of low energy.

When I invested in myself something bigger than I've done before.

And it felt uncomfortable.

The stretch made me feel like, you, you got to do it, you got to show up, you got to keep moving.

Like, I didn't have opportunity to be like, I'm just not going to do that because it doesn't feel comfortable for me.

You know what I mean?

So I want you to tell me a little bit more.

I'm so inquisitive about this whole part about that.

Yeah.

And so a lot of women have the experience of really leveraging the mindset and like pushing against their upper limits, their edges, while other people, I would consider myself this other kind of camp of people, despite trying everything and like being all in that subconscious was really just winning every time.

Every single time.

And so what I did was started when I learned about neurosmatics, it really changed everything because what I started to do is instead of working in my mindset, which was locked in, you know, like I knew what I wanted, I was ready to get after it, I went back into the inputs.

So from a neurological perspective, when I said earlier, like, we're taking in information, we're taking it in through a ton of different systems and there can be threat within any of those systems from any other past lived experience, any physical, emotional traumas that you're aware of or unaware of that create that threat.

So by working with applied neurology and working in those systems, we clear up the, the gatekeeper, we clear up the filtration system, and when we clear up the filtration system that your information is Being vetted by your brain, what ends up happening is it starts to default, then more into safe, instead of constantly into threat.

So when we're in survival mode for so long, you know, they say neurons that fire together, wire together, it becomes the default pattern to move into the survival brain where we can't actually tap into the mindset despite knowing it.

So when we start to clear up those inputs in our visual system, in our respiration system, in our body map, what ends up happening is we start to stop pulling rank and moving directly into the survival response and start actually moving into we are safe so that we can access that information and make change.

So that's where it really all started to shift for me.

Because after chronic stress for so long, my bracing patterns and my breathing and chronic pain were really working against me.

And so I was able to untangle it at the root so that that safety was created, that capacity was created and I was resourced to be able to tap into the mindset and make those changes and work against my brain, you know, in a, in a way that wasn't burning me out.

Do me a favor, I want you to be able to translate that into what we experiences as women entrepreneurs or creative entrepreneurs.

How does that look in our business?

Give us examples of what's happening.

How can we be mindful that we know there's a tanglement in the base and how would we untangle that?

Like what is that in that term?

So they can relate to it.

Yeah, it can show up in so many ways.

I mean, anytime.

Perfectionism, imposter syndrome, like any of the major things that come up, fear in business.

Right.

Meeting a new goal or wanting to hit your next big, you know, seven figure launch or what have you.

And all of the things that come up with that.

It's such a heavy stress load.

And so we need to actually be able to signal to the brain.

Yeah, the heavy stress load.

Because something's happening.

Because people define heavy.

Yes, they do.

So, and I will tell you, I would have told you a million times, like I'm not stressed.

And here's the piece that's the big difference maker is that it's a state shift that's happening at a physiological level that we don't actually even have conscious awareness that it's happening.

And the tax to the body is just so massive because we're abandoning self and then what ends up happening is the sensations that we feel aren't safe, so then we actually disconnect from the body even more.

So we can't feel when our heartbeats racing, we can't feel, when our palms are sweaty, and we just keep pushing and showing up.

And then what ends up happening is the nervous system just gets louder.

We have a louder inner critic, a louder perfectionist, a louder judgment.

We may have migraines, headaches, burnout cycles, all of the things.

I also see this a lot with women that really want to, like, hit that, like, seven figures.

And then when they do, it's not enough.

Right?

Like, it's also they can't feel the joy.

So if you can't feel the stress or for the fear that comes up, they're also not actually living in the present moment of feeling the joy and letting the win land too.

Right?

That is the norm.

And I think that's the norm for a lot of entrepreneurs.

No matter the agenda.

Right.

Because I'm not going to ignore the male CEO or entrepreneur because we all experience the same physiological and mental changes and burnout.

And it's about identifying it.

How do you know?

Because I'm going to be honest, I love what I do, but there are moments I sacrifice me getting out and doing my daily walks for sitting at my desk 12 hours a day.

Right.

And as much as I love what I do, my body is saying, nikisha, we don't love what you're doing because we're hurting when you sleep and you have that ache and you're like, what is this?

Right?

And I love what you said about your body starts to yell at you, and I'm just like, okay.

And I had to put things in play.

Like, my ballroom dancing is what I use to help me get out of my head into my heart, but also move my body, you know?

And there's more things I would like to add because that's not just enough, there's more of it.

So I love that you clearly allowed us to see what that looks like.

Now, one of the things you talk about is helping women feel safe being seen and heard.

And I want to know, how do I.

Our past experience, especially moments where we feel misunderstood or invisible, shape our nervous system's ability to take up space in today's world.

Absolutely.

I mean, from a social and relational perspective, you know, human connection is a core, basic need that.

That we need to thrive and be alive as humans.

And so when we are showing up and invisibility, it is a massive stress load, right?

We are showing up.

We are being our authentic selves.

We are opening the door to judgment, troll hatred, especially when we are making impacts that are huge or polarizing Statements or, you know, hoping to make an impact of change.

It comes with a massive stress load.

And I always talk about when I was in corporate, I loved, I loved to present.

And afterwards I would be exhausted or like peopled out.

And, and that was really because I wasn't present in the moment or embodied because it wasn't safe to be.

And that comes from, you know, my early childhood experiences.

More specifically, like I was bullied as a child.

I moved more than 18 times before I was 20.

I was the new kid.

So I was a really easy target.

Pushed down, called names, laughed at, mocked.

And so like I said earlier, right, the brain's predictive.

We can't do this.

We must stop at all costs, right?

I don't know that it's pulling that rank subconsciously, but I can now, I can feel it in my body.

And I'm like, okay, I gotta, I've got to create the safety, right?

And so I'm even before I come on the podcast, you know, I'm working with my cranial nerves, I'm working with my visual system, I'm working with my respiratory system.

I can sense it in my tone of voice.

You know, if we start talking about something that like really gets me in the feels, I can, I can do a tool while we're here in that heat of the moment so that I'm able to stay present.

My cognitive, logical thinking brain is turned online and I'm not reverting back into my survival brain.

Now you're tapped in so you recognize when the science physical is happening.

Is there a way for anyone who's not tapped in to get any of those signs?

Yes, it's practice, truly.

And it's.

In neurosomatics, we work at a minimum effective dose.

And this is really what changed the game for me, right?

Because especially as a high achieving, over achiever, perfectionist, right?

Because I was like, I'm gonna sit and meditate for 20 minutes.

Well, a minute in I was like, and then I gotta do this and then I gotta go over here.

And I totally wasn't in the meditation, right?

I was like flighting out of my body, right?

So what I was able to do was start small.

Small enough.

It's just like titration, right?

So 15 seconds, tap in.

As soon as I felt myself start to like go into the to do list of the flight.

I'm like, ah, got it.

I'm done.

Shake it off.

Away we go.

Now, like yesterday, I meditated for 20 minutes, and then I had this moment of like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I did that.

I couldn't sit in silence for two minutes.

Right.

So it really is the measurement and the titrating to your own specific nervous system, because every single nervous system is unique as itself.

It's like a fingerprint.

And so we can actually test this through vocal tone.

So if your pitch goes higher, it's typically more of a threat response because constriction happens.

Or you can use your neck, like looking right and left because again, that constriction, if you.

If you have more range of motion, that's like, okay, the.

The body feels safe, you know, it's more safe than before.

So this is your minimum effective dose to make sustainable change.

Got it, Got it.

So good.

Yeah.

For you guys who don't know, titration is something we use a lot in science.

When we have to titrate in through, like a pipet or something is small amounts to make sure you can catch the chemical reaction when it happens, which I love taking it in small amounts.

And I feel like meditation was that.

It's so funny because you said when you started and your brain would just like, run, it's like, I got to do this, I got to do that.

So many people experience that.

And there are moments when I started, I experienced that.

But here's the best part about it.

I kept going.

I didn't make that mean I can't meditate.

I didn't make that mean I.

This is not going to work for me.

I made it mean it's okay if I go up or I fall asleep.

That's the other good one.

Yes, exactly right.

But then I caught it, and there were moments I can go into my mind and I can just be in my alpha and just be at rest, you know?

So I thank you for sharing that with our community.

So let's talk about another.

But what if you need to pivot is in a lack of clarity?

It's a nervous system signal.

So many creative entrepreneurs live in a cycle of reinvention.

New offers, new directions, new seasons.

And what roles does this dis dysregulation play in that constant pivoting?

And how can awareness help us as creative entrepreneurs build more sustainable consistency?

This comes up a lot with the women that I work with.

And it's.

It's a flight pattern for sure.

Right.

So it is a flight that I have experienced as a well worn path in past life, right.

Because we have one person sign up and then it's like, oh, you know, that the flood comes in or it didn't work, or we have all of these things that come up and they're so protective, you know, it's like there is nothing wrong with you if you're experiencing this.

Your nervous system truly is just protecting you and it doesn't have to be so hard.

So yes, it is flight.

It is really protective from being visible, vulnerable.

And if you're also constantly moving and doing, you don't have to be with the sensation to be able to move it through.

It's really avoidant, you know, and like I said, I can totally relate to this in the past.

And so many of my clients come to me and they're really overwhelmed with their offer suite because they're like, you know, I've got these 15 things and this one doesn't feel good and I want to try this.

And I just had this really big download.

And the creation and ideation can sometimes be the avoidance of actually showing up and making the impact and reaching the goals.

Right.

And it's just such a delicate balance to be able to tap in because I am a very creative person.

Like, I love writing, I love creation and finding a way to do it that's meaningful, that doesn't continue to perpetuate the burnout cycle.

And the flight away from, you know, the mission or, or purpose that you have is really the key.

So good.

I love that you called it out.

It is a flight response.

It is, it really is.

I wish someone called me out sooner.

Oh my goodness.

So I'm here to just, to just.

Name it, you know, name it.

Because there's so many people who do have like six, seven offers and they think they're just generating ideas, but they actually never really fulfill or build because you're stuck in that offer creation.

And I don't know, like, it doesn't feel good.

I want to, I want to do this, I want to do that.

And I'm just like, how about you just choose one and let's see what happens, right?

And energy flows where energy goes.

And so if you are splicing yourself into all of these different offers, you know, it's, it's a little bit of a percent everywhere and it's, it's really uncomfortable to stay with one thing and stay with yourself.

And it's the most rewarding when you can, you can honor yourself and trust right it is a really big experiment of self trust and connection to self.

I am in my mastermind, and we're doing a revenue challenge.

And in revenue challenge, you have to set a financial goal.

And we can set any goal we want, but we do it in 30 days.

And what our lovely coach always tells us is that one of the challenges is people try to start creating podcasts and this and that and this because they think that's the thing that's going to help them generate it.

And in my doing of this challenge, the one thing I wanted to stretch my muscle on is being more consistent with my email marketing.

But I wanted to have fun with it.

I wanted to make a love letter for her, my beautiful, iconic CEO who's in her transition, and I wanted to disrupt her old beliefs.

And the fun thing about it is that I have different methods I can use because I have my podcast, I have things.

But I was like, no, this is the one muscle I want to do.

But I don't want to make it an email marketing campaign like, oh, my gosh, that kills my soul when I say that.

But it's so fun to be like, I'm telling you how amazing you are, and this is a condition that's holding you back.

But what if.

What if we can change that with one thought?

What if we can disrupt that nervous system, that fear that.

That little thing inside of you that keeps you from doing what you love?

And I have some people in my world that are with me on this journey, and sometimes they're always going, well, shouldn't you create a goal for how many come to your workshops?

Because I'm doing that.

I'm like, no, because that's where that splicing of adding so many things in the pot, and I'm just like, this is a hot mess.

And I'm like, no, I'm just going to start with the pop.

The fire and water.

Exactly.

And as soon as you can actually show up in full integrity, in full energy, all of those things happen automatically.

Which, you know, Catherine, eight years ago would have been like, no, we need roi, we need KPI.

We need all the strategy.

Only the strategy.

Numbers.

Only numbers.

And it really held me back.

And now I'm, like, surrendered to, like, my energy and my authenticity will call in the aligned humans in a meaningful way.

And it does.

And I'm kind of like, sometimes I'm like, is this.

Yep.

Yes.

And as soon as the transactional rigid ego comes into play, it is the block, you know, like, of calling them in.

And it's it really is fascinating.

Really.

So good.

Thanks for sharing that, Catherine.

I love that.

Yeah.

All right, let me ask you this one.

But what if expansion could feel safe, right, for the woman or the creative entrepreneur who's ready to grow their business but keeps hitting an invisible ceiling?

What are a few somatic or nervous system problems, practices she can start or he can start using today to expand safety into visibility, into leadership, and into success.

You share with us your take on that.

Yeah.

The first thing I would do is look from like an energy perspective, because truly we need energy to keep that brain switched on and open to change.

And because we breathe 25,000 breaths a day, if there is a deficit in our respiration system, which is very common with chronic stress because of the bracing, it limits our breathing.

The very first place that I work with most humans is in the respiration system because we want to mobilize the CO2 to the prefrontal cortex and get that energy turned up and turned on.

And so I would do this with mouth tape at night.

Mouth taping at night has.

It's such a passive way, and.

And most people are like, well, I'm not a mouth breather.

I was also one of those people, but I was like, I'm going to try it anyway.

And then I realized the first night how many times I tried to open my mouth as I disrupted my sleep.

And then by night three, I was totally used to it.

So mouth taping is a huge one.

Bag breathing, like, if you think about, like, when someone's hyperventilating and you give them a bag, that actually mobilizes the CO2 into the prefrontal cortex and gives a massive surge of energy.

And for all of these, my only caveat is really measuring.

Right.

So when someone starts to bag breathe, they may only be able to do two to three breaths and then eventually get up to eight and 10.

It's really just knowing when you feel that, like, need to breathe outside of the bag, listen, you know, don't push through.

But that would be where I would start first, is really focusing on the respiration.

Because if with every breath our nervous system is saying, threat, threat, threat.

If we can reduce that load by re patterning our breathing responses and mobilizing the CO2, we have a pretty quick impact that makes a significant change from a resource and capacity level to create safety.

The tape for the mouth, do you use a specific one that you enjoy?

Personally, I love the tape.

Her brand, it's Canadian and I'm Canadian, so.

But it's very lightweight.

It's in an X shape.

There are some other ones that kind of like go around the mouth with a hole in the middle.

And that's more like an interceptive sensation.

So like you feel when your mouth opens.

Personally, my preference is any that have like that X across the middle of my mouth.

So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna ask you to send that via email and I'll share it in the show notes because Absolutely.

I would use regular tape.

You know where I saw it from Love is Blind.

Yes.

Did it.

And he used regular tape.

But what I also notice is if I do it too tight, I could rub my teeth against each other and it chips.

So I was like, that was.

Have you tell me more if you know anything about that or how to avoid that.

The grind, like the teeth moving or shake, like rubbing against each other.

And it's in my front, it's not in my back.

Oh, yeah.

It's probably just feeling too tight and constricted.

So I would definitely suggest getting like a more like they're more pliable.

Even in some of their ads that you'll see on Instagram, probably now that we're talking about it, they'll show like water actually like coming out of the mouth tape.

So it's kind of pliable and breathable and doesn't feel like you're trapped and your mouth is shut, like with a thicker tape.

Okay, good.

Because I did start that and I stopped because of that.

And I want to go back to it.

I don't know if it helps me, and I believe it does help me get into deeper sleep and things of that nature.

Absolutely.

The other time you can use it is introduction when you're doing workouts, like if you're walking.

Because when we start to breathe through our mouth, we're activating the fight or flight.

And so it just helps with our VO2 max, which is a great indicator for like longevity of health.

It has so many, so many benefits.

I never knew that if I'm walking and I'm breathe throughout my mouth, I'm putting on my flight or a fight.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which we need.

Like, we need that for exercise.

You know, we need that stress response.

But it be.

It can become overactive.

Overactive.

And then like I said, we.

We get really good at what we practice.

So if we're moving into mouth breathing, it becomes our default mode.

And a lot of people mouth breathe and have no idea.

And it has a massive in implication to health, cardiovascular, you name it, high stress, all the Things.

Oh, good.

Okay.

Joy to be with today.

I loved how you helped a lot of our listeners and myself discover what is that hitting that ceiling?

That moment when we're like.

And I know a good amount about my frontal cortex, and I love it.

I'm in love with it now because I get to choose.

But in the past, I never did that.

I let my subconscious lead, and I felt like I lost a lot during those moments because I wasn't present.

I wasn't able to do the things that I love and wanted to do.

I kept overdoing.

And that.

That's.

That whole flight didn't know I was doing that because I'm a fighter.

But at the same time, I was running away by creating all these different opportunities that people can work with me.

But in today, there's a book also about called Essentialism, where I like to just focus on one thing.

And I don't know how to explain this, but when I focus on one thing for the whole week, it is the best feeling in the world.

Like, I feel like I started and I can get it done.

And at the end I'm like, this was all good, you know?

But there are people who are missing that feeling of this is so good.

Because they feel like they have to do like five things on their to do list.

That's a running to do list that never closes and they never get something completed.

Yes, I can hard relate to that.

That was like my go to.

And I wore it as a badge of honor as like a master multitasker.

But that sense of urgency is a total flight, you know, and we know, right?

So it's just.

It's like you said, it's getting the agency back to be able to choose and then modulate through the stress response.

And that's what builds resilience and creates performance.

Because we can't perform when we are in our survival.

Sure.

Right.

We are not able to do that.

So the three takeaways that I got from you is one, when we do meditation, do it in small bites or anything we do, titrate it, make it smaller for you.

Because every nervous system is different.

Right.

To definitely add mouth tape to our life.

Because where we do somatic and nervous work, it starts from our respiratory area, and that would help us.

And then I think your third one was breathing in a bag, seeing how many you do.

Was it like you said, we could maybe start off with two or three or wherever.

To the point you need to feel like you need to stop breathing in the bag.

You need the actual air?

Absolutely.

I would do two to three.

And earlier on I was talking about just turning your head right and left.

And if you can do that and then back breathe two to three times, if you have more range of motion, it means it's a positive response.

And stay with that.

And then it'll create neuroplastic change and you can increase.

If it's negative, it's too much.

You're not going to create state change.

And if it's neutral, you need to do a little bit more.

So go back and do four or five big breaths.

All right, so one, what you're sharing with us, do you have anything I can add in the show notes that people can get and learn a little bit more about your tactics or.

Okay, two, we're going to put that in a show note.

And two, how can anyone listening to this who's very like, oh, my God, I need to be in your world find you?

Yeah, you can find me at beyond your mindset dot com.

Perfect.

Thank you so much, Katherine.

I appreciate you tremendously.

Thank you, Nikisha.

It was an honor to chat with you today.

Thank you for joining us today.

We loved having you with us.

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