SHOW TOPIC:

Today, with Matt Odell’s permission, we’re re-publishing Citadel Dispatch 84.  Matt gave us the opportunity to join him on his podcast exactly one year ago.  That really opened up our minds to what was possible and, consequently, we did more than we ever thought was possible.  Now we’re more inspired than ever to give back to others, e.g., more podcasts with “Bitcoin Homeschoolers” and “Orange Hatter”; more bitcoin games, more in-person events, etc.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

• Breaking one’s podcast virginity
• Why should we care about homeschooling?  Why is it important?
• Let the child lead.  Don’t hold their education back.
• Let kids move around when they study.
• Using grades can make kids feel labelled.
• Let children have freedom to make mistakes and learn.  School systems teach kids to be afraid of making mistakes instead of embracing them.
• Almost all of our pain points in society go back to education.
• Instead of getting kids to an average level in every subject, let them pick an area to go deep with and excel in.
• You do not need a teaching degree to homeschool.
• Homeschooled kids are more comfortable with social interactions, not less.
• Teaching self-discipline is a critical life skill.
• Taking responsibility, how to handle difficult times, and other frameworks are things you, as a parent, choose to teach.
• Biggest hurdles for young parents that want to homeschool
• You can outsource teaching almost any subject
• Homeschooling is 365.  Take care of yourself first.
• You don’t have to be perfect.  
• Homeschooling is taking self-custody of your (kids’) education. 
• Spending time with your kids shows them they matter to you.
• Separation of government and education 
• Parents have the strongest incentive alignment possible with their children
• Homeschooling kids are taught to think for yourself versus the conformity-driven woke agendas in state schools
• Kids pick up things that not formally taught to them
• At some point you have to trust your kids to make decisions on their own when you’re not there.  You have to let go.
• Don’t be afraid.  There are so many resources.

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

• Matt’s website:  https://werunbtc.com
• Matt’s Nostr:   #npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx
• Citadel Dispatch on Zap Stream: https://zap.stream/npub1qny3tkh0acurzla8x3zy4nhrjz5zd8l9sy9jys09umwng00manysew95gx
• Bitcoin Park https://bitcoinpark.com

HAPPY TO HELP:

• Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
• Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
• Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
• Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
• Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
• Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

• Subscribe, like and share this podcast with others
• Visit our “Free Market Kids“ for products like the Bitcoin mining game, HODL UP  https://www.freemarketkids.com,
• Enjoy a 21% DISCOUNT on pre-sales of the 2024 Halving Collectors edition of HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/products/hodl-up-2024-halving-event-commemorative-edition
• Check out Tali’s podcast by and for Bitcoin women, “Orange Hatter” https://www.orangehatter.com  
• Have fun with “Proof of Work Apparel” https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/proof-of-work-apparel

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

• Article "Homeschoolers Are Bitcoiners Who Don't Know It Yet" https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/parallels-between-homeschool-and-bitcoin
• Tali’s “Quick Start” checklist  https://www.freemarketkids.com/blogs/i-want-to-start-homeschooling/i-want-to-start-homeschooling-quick-start-checklist

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

one of the things that we talk a

lot about on Dispatch is Is the

2

importance of education and everything.

3

Like if you look at all the pain

points in our society, it almost always

4

goes back to education at some level,

um, whether that is Bitcoin related

5

education or any other kind of education.

6

And our first child was born, and I

held her in my arms, and I looked at

7

her, and I thought to myself, I don't

want her to be raised by somebody else

8

You like build it up in your head, right?

9

We build up in our heads.

10

That's bullshit.

11

Obviously, that's not actually real

because 90 percent of the time I was

12

in school, I was not learning anything.

13

But the truth of the matter is like,

even if you send your kid to, to state

14

school, like it's still your fault.

15

If the kid turns out bad, like if

your child, like this idea that that

16

person doesn't have responsibility is

like this crazy thing that we've just.

17

Turned in our in our society

where it's like we have excuses.

18

That's not our fault

The teachers are crap,

19

Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

20

I am so excited to share this episode.

21

And to understand why.

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Let me give just a little context here.

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It was exactly one year ago that

tally and I had an experience

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that forever changed our course.

25

And it's an event.

26

That has opened doors.

27

We didn't even know

existed in the last year.

28

We've been able to do more

than we ever thought possible.

29

So what happened?

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Well, He visited Bitcoin park

and Matt Odell invited us to.

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Come on to Citadel dispatch

to discuss homeschooling.

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With his permission.

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We are replaying Citadel dispatch, 84.

34

Uh, Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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On this one-year anniversary.

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So Matt, thank you for being who you are.

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Thank you for having us as your guests.

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And thank you for letting us.

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Replay our first podcast ever for those

who haven't heard this discussion yet.

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You're in for a treat.

41

And the key messages have aged very well.

42

I think just one important

thing to remember.

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Is this as a replay of the

whole show and it's a live show.

44

The introductory comments may no

longer be the best way to support.

45

Citadel dispatch.

46

Uh, especially thinking of

Twitter, stick to Nasr these days.

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And certainly don't go

looking for the live rooms.

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But with that note, let's jump in.

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Enjoy.

50

Happy Bitcoin Saturday freaks.

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It's your boy Odell here with the

first Citadel Dispatch of the new year.

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First of all, Happy New Year to you all.

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Uh, it's going to be a great year.

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And uh, I look forward to living

through it with everybody.

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Citadel Dispatch is a show

focused on actionable discussion

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on Bitcoin and freedom tech.

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I'm your host Odell.

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We do not have ads or sponsors.

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We purely rely on donations from y'all.

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So thank you to everyone who

continues to support the show.

61

You can easily support the show

by going to still dispatch.

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com on the bottom.

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It says, contribute Bitcoin

Ron geyser fund now.

64

Um, so if you donate Bitcoin through

on chain or lightning, you can attach a

65

message, you can sign on with Twitter.

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If you want your little Twitter badge

there, uh, we have a leaderboard, uh,

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you can try and climb the ranks of

the leaderboard, which is pretty cool.

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And also you can support the

show through podcasting 2.

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0 apps, such as fountain

podcasts, breeze wallet.

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podverse.

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fm, echoln.

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com.

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They work like regular podcast apps,

except you load them up with Bitcoin.

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You load them up with sats.

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You decide how many sats per

minute you think the show is worth.

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Um, and then as you listen, those

sats are streamed directly to my node.

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It's extremely empowering, extremely cool.

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To be able to open my Zeus wallet,

connect it to my own node and

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see those stats streaming in

directly from this global audience.

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I do appreciate y'all another

great way to support the show.

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I know it's a bear market.

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I know it's a recession is to simply

subscribe on your favorite platform.

83

We're on everything.

84

Rumble, Twitter, Twitch.

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YouTube, BitcoinTV.

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com, every podcast app.

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Uh, subscribing does help, leaving

reviews does help, sharing with

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friends and family does help.

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And then last but not least, this

is a live, unedited show with

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direct audience participation.

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I am not the only host.

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Y'all are the hosts as well.

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And I appreciate everyone who

joins us in the live chat, whether

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that's in our Matrix Rooms.

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We have two Matrix Rooms.

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One's encrypted, one's not encrypted.

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There's a whole debate over that.

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I'm not gonna get into it right now.

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And then we also have You can

join the chat on Twitch or YouTube

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and those those chat items.

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I mean, if you're watching

right now, you'll see.

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I'm, we're the only show in Bitcoin

where your chat is live broadcast on.

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It's, anything you say

is in the broadcast.

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So I appreciate you guys for joining us.

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And just know that I'm not

doing any moderation there.

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Sometimes your message from YouTube

or Twitch might not show up.

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That's just the algo messing with you.

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And there's nothing I can do about that.

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I'm, I don't do any

moderation on that front.

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So thank you everyone who

continues to join the live chat.

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I know recently Uh, I've been springing

shows on you guys without too much notice.

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So it means even more when you join

very little notice on a Saturday, but

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we have this fantastic in person studio

at Bitcoin Park in Nashville, and I

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have some great people in town, so we're

going to have this fantastic conversation

115

on a Saturday, but before we start.

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Um, another way you can support

the show via Podcasting 2.

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0 is something called Boostergrams.

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Boostergrams allow you to send

a certain amount of Bitcoin.

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You choose how much Bitcoin you want to

send and you can attach a message to it.

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Uh, those messages are

displayed in most Podcasting 2.

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0 apps.

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They're also displayed on GeyserFund.

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So that GeyserFund page you can

get to by going to satsperminute.

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com or going to salesdispatch.

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com and clicking.

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Uh, donate with Bitcoin that actually

shows the leaderboard of the podcasting 2.

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0 people too.

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So like if you go, um, if you're just

streaming sats and you don't put any

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messages, you're actually moving up

the leaderboard on guys are based on

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your podcasting So like our number

two on the leaderboard right now.

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Is at user 8 2 5 6 8 8 4 on

fountain and he has donated.

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Yeah, that's pretty crazy.

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He's he, he has supported the show with

846, 000 sats, almost a million sats just

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from streaming sats or number seven on the

leaderboard is uncle thinks on fountain.

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He's done, it looks like over 260 times.

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He's, he's streamed sats to the

show and almost have 500, 000 sats.

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So thank you freaks.

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For continuing support.

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But before we get started, let me just

read some booster grams as we always do.

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This is a little bit different

because we did take a Christmas break.

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So the last two shows have been,

uh, from Bitcoin Park live events.

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Um, we have at bond with 71, 000

sats on my Bitcoin basics panel.

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I did at the beef initiative at Bitcoin

Park saying the amount of time you

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have dedicated through all various

mediums is incredibly appreciated.

145

Thank you for your time, all the

advice, knowledge, and positive

146

messages throughout the years.

147

Value for value.

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Orange heart.

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Puppy sale.

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Appreciate you, Bond.

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Thank you for the support.

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We have ride or die freak Eric99 with 50,

000 sats saying thanks for all you do.

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Smiley face.

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Then I'm going to go

to the fireside I did.

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With Texas Slim, also at Bitcoin

Park, we have Eric99, once

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again, Rider Dive Freak with stay

humble stack stats, great advice.

157

We have Ape Mithrandir, another

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saying Texas Slim speaks very well.

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And then I'm gonna go to our last actual

dispatch that we've had, which was with

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Texas Slim, Cole Bolton, and Jason.

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Um, And we have that user I was talking

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saying I love steak with 100, 000 sats.

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And we have our Saris BTC with

55, 555 sats saying awesome

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rip Jason Cole and Slim.

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I can speak to both Jason and Cole's beef.

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They're both amazing.

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Definitely looking forward to

seeing everyone again soon at

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another beef initiative event.

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Thanks Matt for your leadership here.

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So I know this has been a long preamble.

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It was a long holiday.

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I haven't been with you guys for a while.

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Uh, before we jump into the show,

I just want to say, uh, you guys

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make it all worth it, so thank you.

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And then second of all, we have a

crazy week here at Bitcoin Park.

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If you are in the Nashville area,

consider going to bitcoinpark.

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co and seeing our lineup of events.

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We have so many great

Bitcoiners coming into town.

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I've already lined up some

great conversations, uh, that

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are going to be on dispatch.

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We're gonna have Dylan LeClaire

back on Monday at 6:00 PM Central

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Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time.

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So definitely consider

joining us for that.

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I have a mini script conversation, uh,

jumping into technical Bitcoin with

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Vivic and Rob, um, Rob of anchor watch.

186

Uh, that's gonna be on Wednesday

morning, Wednesday morning.

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Yeah, that's going to

be on Wednesday morning.

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I think at 11 central time.

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Sorry that I'm not more

prepared for you freaks.

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And then we have a bunch

more conversations.

191

Also, all the conversations that

happen at the park, well most of

192

them, without the Q& A component, get

posted to the Bitcoin Park podcast

193

feed so you can search Bitcoin Park

in your favorite podcasting app.

194

And catch a lot of that content

if you can't join, but it's

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always better to come in person.

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Okay.

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I appreciate you guys for bearing

with me on this long intro.

198

We have a great conversation today,

a little bit out of my wheelhouse,

199

but something that is very important

and I'm very excited about that is

200

homeschooling and also Bitcoin games.

201

Bitcoin games can be very helpful

in an educational environment, uh,

202

to have this conversation we have.

203

Two people that have become very

good friends of mine, uh, just

204

from meeting them at Bitcoin Park.

205

They drove in, um, they drove into

Bitcoin Park looking to see what

206

the Bitcoin community over here was

all about and, uh, we really just

207

hit it off a couple months ago.

208

Um, we have Scott here.

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How's it going, Scott?

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It's going fantastic.

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Thank you, Scott.

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And Scott's here with

his wonderful wife, Tali.

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How's it going, Tali?

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Really good.

215

Happy to be here.

216

Love it.

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Love it.

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I think this might be their first podcast.

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Is this your first podcast ever?

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Yes, it is.

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Yes, it is.

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Love it.

223

And here to break their podcast virginity

with me is ride or die freak, P.

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How's it going, P?

225

It is going fantastically.

226

I'm honored to be here, my friend.

227

Thanks for inviting me.

228

P was sitting in Bitcoin Park, uh, When

we decided that we were going to do

229

this dispatch and I roped him into it.

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So very excited to have P here.

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Hell yeah.

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Okay, so we are talking

about homeschooling.

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We are talking about Bitcoin games.

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Before we get started, I just

wanted to say to the freaks, I

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played a lot of Bitcoin games.

236

This game that, that Scott

designed is, is simply the best

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Bitcoin game I've ever played.

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But we're not going to start with that.

239

What we're going to start

with is homeschooling.

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And why are we going to?

241

Why are we going to talk about

homeschooling with this group?

242

We're going to talk about homeschooling

with this group because Tali and

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Scott have four children and they

homeschooled all four children.

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So I think that brings, makes you

as close to a homeschooling expert

245

as you can possibly be, Tali.

246

Um, homeschooling.

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Why should we care?

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Why do you do it?

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Why is it important?

250

Well, hello everybody.

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I'm so happy to be here.

252

Um, homeschooling For us, when

we first started, it was almost

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an accidental, um, event.

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We weren't planning to do that.

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We were originally going to go

traditional and, you know, send

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the kids to private school, go the

Ivy League route, all that stuff.

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But as the kids got older, we

realized that if we went the

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Structured academic route.

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There were a lot of restrictions

on what the kids can and cannot do.

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It was very almost conveyor belt

like, you know, the kids are moved

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from one stage to another stage and

with very little variation allowed

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in what they're supposed to be doing.

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So an example would be when my, my

oldest was three and I was thinking

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about putting her in preschool.

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I toured the local preschools.

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Like every single one of them and I

interviewed the principals and the

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teachers and I just specifically remember

this one school that I stopped at.

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The principal was English, her, you know,

she sounded really intelligent and we were

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walking down the hall and she was pointing

at all the different artwork and, and, uh,

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ABCs and words that they were learning.

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And I asked her this one question, I

said, do you teach your kids to read?

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These are three, four, five year olds.

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And I will never forget her answer to me.

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She said, Oh, no, no,

no, we don't do that.

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And I asked her why.

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And she said, well, we don't want

them to be bored in kindergarten.

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What?

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And I said, so if a child is ready

and willing, you would purposefully

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not teach that child to read.

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And she said, yes, because we

don't want them to be bored.

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And that just blew my mind.

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It absolutely blew my mind.

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My oldest was three.

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I had already been teaching her ABCs and.

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So I, I didn't send her to that preschool.

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I did end up taking her, my oldest to

a different preschool and while the

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other kids were learning how to spell

cat with the, you know, it's the C A T

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and their B is for boy and D is for dog.

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That kind of thing.

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She was already reading chapter

books because I taught her as

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she was ready to move forward.

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Not because I said, okay, wait,

you're four and you should be

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able to only do this amount.

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And so I'm going to stop there.

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You let the child lead, and that's,

that's been the best experience that we've

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been able to enjoy is let the child lead

when they're ready to go forward, you

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move them forward, but if they have some

trouble, if they're not language inclined,

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they're more mathematically challenged,

then you just say, okay, if the addition

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doesn't make sense to you right now,

you Explain it to them a different way

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or you use a different method or you,

for example, for our boys, they're

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very active when they do school work.

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It's really helpful to allow

them to move, which is not

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possible in the school system.

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So, for example, are our second oldest.

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He memorized the multiplication

table while he was jumping on our

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sofa and it just worked for him.

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But that's just, he's literally just

jumping up and down on the sofa.

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He was jumping on the table.

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Yes, that was how he recited

and that was fine with me.

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I don't care how he learns it,

just learn it, you know, and if he

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doesn't get it, then we do it again.

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I see P's mind running.

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He's like, damn, I think I

can learn things that way.

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Yeah, exactly.

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What's going through my mind?

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He did.

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Whatever it was, as long

as he was doing his thing.

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Hold it closer to your mouth.

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Sorry.

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Yeah.

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And also, also you don't, we, we don't

agree in grading, especially when

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the kids are learning a new skill.

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We want to give them feedback by

saying, okay, that didn't work.

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Let's try it again.

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But if you give them a grade, which I

think a lot of schools are really quick

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to do, they label themselves immediately.

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So if you say, okay, you haven't

memorized the multiplication table,

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I give you your test, you get an 83.

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Right.

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That's a passable grade.

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You move on the parts

that they didn't get.

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That could be really key for the

next phase of their education,

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but they just, they get moved on.

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But in the homeschooling environment,

you get to say, okay, you didn't get

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17 percent of what you were tested.

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Let's go back and revisit the 17%.

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And there's no labeling.

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There's no, you're a B student.

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You're a C student.

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It doesn't matter.

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Let's get it all completely

mastered a hundred percent.

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And then you move on and.

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I feel like that gives the children

freedom to make mistakes, and it's through

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the mistakes that we learn the fastest.

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But I think our school systems teach the

kids to be afraid of mistakes because

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they have the report card that they

have to bring home to their parents, you

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know, and they're labeled immediately.

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I'm good at math.

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I'm not good at math.

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I'm good at English.

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I'm not good.

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You don't need to do that, really.

353

I don't believe that.

354

Right.

355

I mean, one of the things that we

talk a lot about on Dispatch is Is the

356

importance of education and everything.

357

Like if you look at all the pain

points in our society, it almost always

358

goes back to education at some level,

um, whether that is Bitcoin related

359

education or any other kind of education.

360

With the beef initiative, we

talk about lack of, uh, food

361

intelligence, lack of this idea

of where does your food come from?

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What is good quality food?

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Like, how do you, how are you nutritious?

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And you go right back.

365

It's education, education, education.

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Um, but meanwhile.

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Like the core of our society's education

system is this, is this government

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school system, right, which is basically

geared to the lowest common denominator.

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It's not really geared

to individual students.

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You said this term child led learning.

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Mm hmm.

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Um, and I feel like that is really,

that captures, that, that captures

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the value prop, this idea that Mm hmm.

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It is actual education that's

geared to these individual, your

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individual children, not just

this concept of children, right?

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Like this, like everybody has to be at

least average in all kinds of subjects.

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And one of the books that I read really

early on when the kids were little

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was a book by Jennifer Fox and it's

called finding your child's strength.

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And she talked about how going

forward when we compete against.

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The world, the whole entire world,

when you're talking about job, you

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know, job seeker and, you know,

corporations and whatever, you,

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you think about competing against

every country under the sun, right?

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Who has access to the internet

and you can't be average.

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You have to be superb.

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In an area, and in order for you to do

that, you have to be allowed to pour

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your time and effort into that one area.

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So for example, right now, I think,

generally speaking, people believe

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that kids have to achieve a certain

level of math accomplishment, right?

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Whether it's algebra or

pre algebra, whatever.

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But is that absolutely necessary?

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Because it's not.

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How many life skills actually

require the knowledge of algebra

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and how many job skills actually

require the knowledge of algebra.

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And yet we spent so much time making sure

that every single child has that level.

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But if they use that same amount of

time in an area that child is already

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strong at and naturally inclined to excel

at, then how much further can they go

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with that same amount of time invested?

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So that's a, that's a really

great book, I think, for your

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listeners to maybe check out.

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Um, but that was really impactful

for me to not try to get my kids

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up to like some average level for

every single subject, but to really

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pick an area and excel in it.

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So, I mean, you've never done this before.

404

This is the first time you've

homeschooled children, presumably.

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What was your, what was

your background before you?

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My background, uh, I actually met my

husband at business school, and the,

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our plan always was I was going to go

into investment banking, and our plan

408

was always have a child, you know, stay

at home for a few months, get a nanny,

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and then I was going to go back to work.

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And our first child was born, and I held

her in my arms, and I looked at her, and

411

I thought to myself, I don't want her

to be raised by somebody else because

412

if I went back to investment banking,

I was going to leave the house before

413

she woke up and I was going to come home

after she went to bed and I was never

414

going to see her and she was not going

to know who I am and I won't know her.

415

So we talked about it and decided that.

416

He was gonna just be a single single

income earner and uh, and I was gonna

417

stay home with the kids Well at the

time one kid, but yeah And then we like

418

I said before we fell into this whole

homeschooling thing because I didn't know

419

it was an option and then when I knew it

was an option, I thought you had to have

420

a teacher's degree, but Since we started

into it, I realized that there are so many

421

options under the sun, so many different

combinations of ways to homeschool your

422

child, and you can always outsource

a subject that you're not good at.

423

There's so many resources out

there, there's so much support,

424

and there's a huge community, and

the number one com Not complain.

425

Number one concern that our families

have when we decide to homeschool was

426

your child is going to be a hermit,

you know, he she will not be able to to

427

have hold a conversation with anybody.

428

And that is the farthest

thing from the truth.

429

If you ever meet a homeschool

child, they can talk to anybody

430

because they're a hermit.

431

In the world with their parents, they are

interacting with people of all ages, of

432

all capacity, all roles, all the time.

433

They're not stuck in a classroom

in a teacher student peer

434

situation most of the day.

435

They are out there interacting.

436

And so they actually are

much more comfortable.

437

Interacting with people socially

than I would say a typical student.

438

I mean, you brought your kids to

Bitcoin Park the other day and

439

they were building seed signers.

440

Yep.

441

Building their own hardware wall.

442

That's interesting.

443

One thing that you mentioned was, um, the

idea of allowing your children to focus

444

in on the areas that they are specifically

excited about or interested in.

445

How do you find the balance between, um,

encouraging them to also You know, learn

446

things that don't come as naturally to

them or that they get bored of easily.

447

And I'm asking as a person who

experienced this a lot as a child.

448

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

449

So.

450

So I do, I encourage them to pursue

what they're interested in because we

451

have the time to do it because they

are not spending The time commuting on

452

the school bus going to school and you

know going from class to class So they

453

do have more time to do that but at the

same time I'm Chinese and so the whole

454

tiger mom thing comes into play just

a little bit and Discipline was a huge

455

huge thing that I talked about with

the kids and I remember specifically

456

Brianna would be very unwilling.

457

She, this is not a competitive person,

but we put them in sports for, you know,

458

physical fitness, things like that.

459

And when she would be

hesitant because she.

460

wasn't sure she was going to win or

something required her to practice

461

longer, like piano or something

longer than she thought she should.

462

Then the discipline comes into play.

463

And I would tell her it's easy for

you to do things that are easy to you.

464

It's hardest for you to do something.

465

That you don't want to do, do, you

don't want to do, but you should

466

do, and you find challenging.

467

And I did give them a

lot of lectures on that.

468

So really focusing in on the value of

discipline, using those as opportunities

469

to hone that skill set specifically.

470

Yes, for the purpose of discipline,

not for the purpose of, I think

471

you should be a master musician

because you're just supposed to,

472

nothing, not, not for that reason.

473

Yeah, absolutely.

474

But I think that that

sense of discipline is.

475

Often lacking in students today because

there's so many people who just say,

476

I'm not good at math and therefore they

just kind of toss it out the window

477

and that I'm just not good at that.

478

I mean, the other thing we talked about

a lot on dispatch is, uh, this idea

479

of personal responsibility and this

idea that society has kind of groomed

480

personal responsibility out of us.

481

And I mean, you see that in the

government school system, right?

482

It's like the teachers aren't

responsible for the kids because the

483

parents are helicoptering parenting,

but then the parents aren't.

484

responsible for the kids because

they're in school with the teacher.

485

So it's like, who is actually

responsible for the kid's education?

486

Is it the person setting, you know, the

standard bodies over in Washington, um,

487

on what their test scores should be?

488

And all of a sudden you end up

in a situation where nobody's

489

responsible for the child, right?

490

The child is responsible for themselves.

491

Um, and it's just a

completely broken incentives.

492

Yeah, I think it'd be really tough for

a teacher to have 30 students there.

493

I mean, I empathize with that.

494

That would be really hard.

495

I just can't imagine that they

would have the time to say,

496

You know, this just happened.

497

Let's take a moment and

talk about responsibility.

498

Whereas your homeschooling, if you ask

our kids, everything was a lecture.

499

Right?

500

It was.

501

You get to take the garbage cans out.

502

Why did you not do that?

503

You know, and it could be a ten minute

discussion on doing the right thing.

504

Even if it was cold

outside or whatever it is.

505

And so you, you're shaping their framework

on how they view things and you just.

506

They're going to pick that up from

somewhere, so it's probably going

507

to be their peers or whatever social

media or whatever it is that they get,

508

they're, they're paying attention to,

but when you're homeschooling, you have

509

the opportunity to say, let me give

you a viewpoint on how you approach

510

difficulty, responsibility, fill in the

blank with whatever you, you want, you

511

get, you're the one that gets to shape.

512

The framework that they're going

to use for other decisions and

513

when you're not there to help them.

514

Do you think that's the biggest hurdle

for maybe young parents that want

515

to do homeschooling is, is, is that?

516

All the discipline

responsibilities on them.

517

It's like, that's something you

can't like learn in a book, right?

518

That's like, uh, you have to

actually be willing to do it.

519

Yeah, I think it's fear.

520

And I think there's an unrealistic

expectation that you have to

521

be the expert on every subject.

522

Right.

523

Like, oh, I couldn't teach

biology or whatever it was.

524

And Tali's right, you can outsource.

525

Almost any subject.

526

So how does that look, the outsource?

527

Right.

528

Kids gonna learn biology.

529

You're not a biologist.

530

Right, so I think most cities

would have homeschooler co ops.

531

And also, a lot of private

schools would offer cottage

532

school programs for homeschoolers.

533

So it's almost like part time.

534

Private school.

535

So, for example, in Louisville, there

is a place where I think a lot of, um,

536

homeschoolers with high school kids

would send their kids to, and they go

537

to school two days a week, and they

do their homework at home three days a

538

week, and the parents don't teach at all.

539

They monitor.

540

Right.

541

So that's, that's an option.

542

And then you can also do

So that's not what you do.

543

I didn't, I did some of that.

544

Okay.

545

For example, I wanted the kids to

learn Latin, and I was not about to go

546

teach them Latin, because I, I don't.

547

No, Latin.

548

I also try to teach them science

in the very beginning, but the

549

setup and prepping for the science

experiments took so much time.

550

I just couldn't do it.

551

So I outsourced those.

552

Musical theater, I think is super,

super important for literally everybody

553

because it teaches them how to Get

over stage fright, present themselves,

554

uh, speak well in front of people.

555

So I think that's really important,

but you can't do that at home.

556

So I send them to a co op to do musical

theater, drama, that type of stuff.

557

So yeah, just combination.

558

There's so many resources out there.

559

Is there's no reason for anybody

to be afraid of it unless they

560

just haven't been directed where

to go and look for solutions.

561

Interesting.

562

Do you feel like, do you feel like the

experience of being an educator or really

563

adopting the role as educator rather

than only as parent has changed the

564

way That you view your own education.

565

Oh, absolutely.

566

I think we grew more than the kids did.

567

I don't, I had no idea of

going into it what to expect.

568

But it, yeah, it's just,

you have to go through it.

569

You have to experience it.

570

It's hard to.

571

If I told you how to do a podcast

versus you actually having to set it

572

up and having to do it, um, there's

something in the actual action

573

and being responsible for that.

574

But I have no formal podcast education.

575

No, just trial by fire.

576

And that's true for parenting.

577

Really.

578

It really is.

579

And homeschooling, I think

is exactly the same thing.

580

And I think I had more fun than

my kids when I was homeschooling

581

because I was learning so much.

582

I learned more trying to, Learn

enough to teach them than I did going

583

through all the branding schools

and I would take a book and instead

584

of handing it over to them, I would

read and be like, this is so cool.

585

I love this book.

586

You know, I will order books and they will

come in, you know, in the, in the boxes

587

and I'll open like, I love these books.

588

And I would just hug them.

589

I get so excited, I get so excited.

590

That's fantastic.

591

What's been the hardest thing for you to.

592

Do as part of this process, what's

been the most challenging aspect

593

of homeschooling your children?

594

I think it doesn't have to

do with homeschooling per se.

595

To me, the biggest challenge was I had

switched jobs a couple times and Tali

596

took, she spent hours and hours and

hours trying to find the right activities

597

and the right resources in an area.

598

And when you disrupt that, um, If,

you know, if I could go back, I think

599

that might be one thing that I would

try to change because it, it disrupted

600

all those things and you have to kind

of like reset and restart and restart

601

the actual, the actual teaching part.

602

It's not, I mean, kids are

really resilient, right?

603

If you, if you messed up and you

didn't teach whatever you thought

604

you were going to teach them, like

they're just really resilient and

605

you can catch up on almost anything.

606

Plus homeschools 365, it's not

like you have this, Oh, the

607

summer they're, they're off.

608

Our kids didn't understand

what a vacation was.

609

Because Tali just kept on going and

if we were taking time off because

610

we wanted to go do a trip, we did it.

611

We had that flexibility.

612

But it wasn't like the

same time every year.

613

No.

614

And it was, you know, it

could be the middle of summer.

615

They didn't understand that, wait,

other people are not in school.

616

So you're, you, there's no, when I

grew up, that was like the best feeling

617

ever, that, the day before summer break.

618

Yeah, my poor kids never knew that.

619

You know, you all run out, you all run out

of school together, just like screaming.

620

School's out, school's out.

621

Um, I, going back to your question, Pete,

about the challenges, I think, I think

622

the, the biggest challenge was feeling

100 percent responsible for your child

623

and how they, Hopefully children and

how they turn out because I have nobody

624

to blame except myself because I'm it.

625

I am the parent.

626

I'm the teacher.

627

I'm the principal.

628

I'm the counselor.

629

I am everything and there were so

many times when I wanted to quit.

630

There were so many times when I just

I was talking to Scott Lee and I'll

631

be like, I, I can't do it anymore.

632

I have, I have to send them to

school because I'm going to go crazy.

633

But it was more.

634

It was not because the

kids were difficult.

635

It was.

636

All the pressure on myself that I had

to make sure they were emotionally

637

healthy and they were physically healthy.

638

So I'm trying to cook the dinner

while they are doing their homework.

639

I never got a break.

640

There was no break for me because

it was when they were investing.

641

I was prepping for class

when they were doing class.

642

I was cooking when I was driving.

643

I was memorizing poems with

them when I was driving.

644

I was playing.

645

It was like there was no break.

646

So that was the biggest challenge.

647

And for anybody who's thinking about

homeschooling out there, I would just

648

say, take care of yourself first.

649

That's number one.

650

And in what way?

651

As in.

652

Yes, you are responsible a hundred

percent, but you can outsource and,

653

and you don't need to be perfect.

654

I think that's the biggest

message I want to tell people.

655

You don't have to be perfect and

your kids will turn out great.

656

So don't, don't be too hard on

yourself is my impression is some

657

people think homeschoolers They just

let their kids do nothing all day.

658

They're just sitting around.

659

My impression is the opposite.

660

They're really intense.

661

The kind of the tiger mom type of

thing that Tali's talking about.

662

And you put these expectations on yourself

that are so hard that you're just like,

663

well, I can fit one more activity in.

664

I can do one more thing.

665

And it's the self pressure

that you're right.

666

They're competing with these

kids in school that are just

667

constantly learning all the time.

668

You like build it up in your head, right?

669

We build up in our heads.

670

That's bullshit.

671

Obviously, that's not actually real

because 90 percent of the time I was

672

in school, I was not learning anything.

673

Right.

674

It was just like, absolutely.

675

Yeah.

676

I think when we first started, um,

some of the season homeschooling

677

mamas were saying, don't think

you're not doing enough because

678

you're already doing more than what.

679

Other kids are getting in school because

there's so much travel time, transition

680

time, uh, you know, going from class to

class, and then setting up, taking down,

681

all that stuff, and we, because we don't

have to do that, we were already ahead

682

by several hours per day, and then the

individual attention we give to the kids

683

far surpasses how many hours they sit

in the classroom in a corner at a desk.

684

Yeah, it's almost, I think it's almost

ironic, you know, the self pressure about.

685

The responsibility of what you

have and to me, and I can say this

686

because it's a Bitcoin audience.

687

It's like yourself.

688

You're taking self custody of

your education and you're, yeah,

689

there's so much overlap there.

690

You're, you're being responsible.

691

You're, you're responsible for it.

692

And um, I don't know, I have some

other things on that depending

693

where you want to go with it.

694

Well, that's like what Tali was saying

where she's like, one of the biggest

695

hurdles is that you feel this immense

personal responsibility over everything.

696

Because there's no one else to blame.

697

But the truth of the matter is like,

even if you send your kid to, to state

698

school, like it's still your fault.

699

If the kid turns out bad, like if

your child, like this idea that that

700

person doesn't have responsibility is

like this crazy thing that we've just.

701

Turned in our in our society

where it's like we have excuses.

702

That's not our fault The teachers are

crap, you know, this is bad all these

703

reasons why the kid turned out bad not

that you know You were not a responsible

704

parent in the first place Yeah, right And

I think really all kids want to know is

705

that they matter to you and it's how do

you demonstrate that they matter to you?

706

You spend time with them and that's

one of the things that that I've

707

just recently started to really

think about is this whole quality

708

versus quantity of time discussion.

709

I think there's been this really

huge push for people to believe

710

that they can have it all.

711

They can have the career and the

family and be parents and everything.

712

The most important part is the quality

time, you know, you, you take them out on

713

a trip and you spend quality time or you

take them bowling and it's quality time

714

and I'm not saying any of that is bad.

715

It's all very important, but there are

quantity of time that just needs to be

716

there so that you can notice the little

things because live The little things

717

like if your child has a nosebleed and

you're there and you're holding the

718

tissue of the nose and go, this is how

you apply pressure, like little things

719

like that, they add up and then they

trust you and they tell you stuff.

720

And the discussions that we have.

721

Over the kitchen counter, I

think, have been so key, a part

722

of the homeschooling education.

723

It's not just about the economics at all,

because in the end, how well you read or

724

how well you can write essays, it just

doesn't matter as much as do they believe

725

they matter, number one, to their parents,

and also how do they interpret the world

726

around them, right, in a healthy way.

727

And I think a lot of young

people are really missing that.

728

They have been.

729

Their parents at least buy into the

quality time thing so they take the the

730

family trips and they take the family

photos and it's everything looks really

731

pretty but inside they don't have the

the little moments that added up give

732

some guidance and so then they rely on

their peers but it's kind of like Young

733

people leading young people sometimes

can feel like the blind leading the

734

blind, because nobody knows more.

735

Nobody knows more.

736

And then they go on social

media, which is even scarier.

737

But your parents love you and they have

wisdom, you know, of several decades

738

over your current life experience.

739

And if they're not able to share that

with the kids, I think it's so easy

740

for the kids to be swayed by what's

going on in society that in most

741

of it is not very helpful to them.

742

Yeah.

743

If I could.

744

Maybe use that to highlight the

negative side that you try to avoid too.

745

So we've been talking, and

I love it, focusing on the

746

positives of homeschooling.

747

Let's dive in.

748

There's a negative that you avoid too.

749

So there, in my view, it's like the,

you know, you talk about separation

750

of, of government and money.

751

It's, in this case, it's separation

of the government and school.

752

Right.

753

Education.

754

And it's like indoctrination, right?

755

So, so not only are they not

teaching about how money is, And

756

we, like, we bought games to teach

money when the kids were young

757

and that's not surprising, right?

758

Um, so it's, you're, you're lacking that,

but they're also picking up other things.

759

There could be an agenda

from the, the teacher.

760

There can be an agenda that comes

down as part of the, the curricula.

761

There could be, there's a lot of things

that you can avoid that when you, when

762

you don't homeschool, you're, you're

basically saying, I trust somebody else.

763

I'm going to trust that they're

going to guide my kids correctly.

764

I'm going to trust that

they're going to teach them.

765

The right way of looking at

history, the right way of looking

766

at fill in the blank type of thing.

767

And so it's the flip side of you get to

do all the positive things, you also get

768

to avoid some of the things where you're

relying on trust on someone else to do it.

769

Yeah, I mean a key aspect of, of

government schooling is, is to get

770

children To respect, you know, uh,

respect authority and be a be a

771

quote unquote functioning member of

society that doesn't ask questions.

772

That's just willing to go

along with what's best for the

773

country, so to speak, right?

774

It's like a social score, right?

775

Yeah, that's like that.

776

That is one of the reasons why you see

these these state school systems got

777

built out in the first place, right?

778

Was like, how do we take These

millions of people, um, and

779

have them all work together for

the best for the state, right?

780

Turn them into a

productive economic asset.

781

Yeah, because we talk about, we talk

about incentives all the time, right?

782

And Bitcoin and, and it's the

same, same situation here is, is

783

what are, what are the incentives?

784

Are the incentives flawed?

785

Are they broken?

786

Uh, or do they make sense, right?

787

And if you, if you talk about parents

with their children, I mean, they have the

788

strongest incentive alignment possible.

789

Like you want your kids to be the

best they can possibly be, um, and

790

ultimately it goes all the way to

the point of you're going to be old

791

at some point and then they're going

to be taking care of you, right?

792

So you have massive skin in the game.

793

While if you look at school systems,

what are their incentives, right?

794

Their incentives are no

one acts out of line.

795

You want everyone to be, you know,

quote unquote, functionally members of

796

society that don't cause disruptions

that are just productive economic units.

797

Yeah.

798

Incentives.

799

I agree.

800

Yeah.

801

Yeah.

802

I mean, in the traditional school

system, the goal is to basically

803

keep people occupied because you get

paid for every day that the student

804

is in the school rather than Yeah.

805

That's the incentive.

806

Yeah.

807

So, so I have.

808

A follow up question to that, because I

was actually going to go in that route,

809

uh, before you brought it up, Scott.

810

And so the follow up question is, as

Bitcoiners, obviously, I think, in

811

general, we self select for people

that are contrarian, that go against

812

authority, that think outside the box.

813

We value that as a very positive trait.

814

Um, now, if most children aren't that,

And I actually saw it when I was raised

815

like up until, uh, I mean, 2008 was a big,

you know, curtain draw for me that A lot

816

of what we were taught was bullshit and,

you know, there aren't really adults in

817

the room that know what they're talking

about and, and that, you know, society

818

is like this massive house of cards that

we all pretend is not a house of cards.

819

But up until that point,

I was very indoctrinated.

820

You know, I was very rah rah America.

821

Um, I told my mom at one

point I want to join the army.

822

She told me essentially to go fuck myself.

823

Um, did you know I was

in the army by the way?

824

I did not know that.

825

Um, so anyway, my question was, so

I kind of came to it myself after

826

most of my government schooling, but

my question is a child that Isn't

827

subservient in that way, right?

828

Isn't indoctrinated.

829

Are there, have you no,

obviously we know the positive

830

points that can come from that.

831

I, I, I wonder, do you notice like

negative points where someone of that

832

age is like thinking for themselves

maybe a little bit too much?

833

Like, I don't know, like, is that,

do you, does that make sense?

834

Do you want to, do you want to go first?

835

Yeah.

836

Why don't you go first?

837

I can only speak to my own four kids

and I'm actually really happy that.

838

They think outside the box.

839

They do because when they graduated high

school, I sent them overseas I wanted

840

them to get out of the homeschooling

community the Christian community and I

841

told them the world is very big and this

is a very tiny part of it and you need to

842

go see and They each came back and said

we don't like what we saw because it's

843

really sad, you know I think Brianna was

sent to London during COVID and she, you

844

know, in the UK, the drinking age is 18.

845

Right.

846

Right.

847

And so these are pre freshman

kids, they're mostly 18,

848

they're so excited, right?

849

They get to the airport,

they get to the hotel.

850

I mean, they're When you say they,

was she part of a larger group?

851

She was part of an educational group.

852

She got there and everybody split.

853

Everybody went to the pub.

854

Right.

855

To get drunk.

856

And she called us and I said,

What are you doing calling us?

857

This is your first night there.

858

Aren't you supposed to be hanging

out with your new friends?

859

And she goes, Everybody's gone.

860

What?

861

So then it was a whole semester of

people throwing up in the hallway,

862

people throwing up at the top, you

know, and she She stood her ground.

863

She was like, I don't I

don't need to do that.

864

I can go on have a good time

and I don't need to do that.

865

So she thought outside the box and I

was really proud of her for doing that.

866

And Alea went to Hawaii and her group,

they didn't have access to pubs and

867

bars because she was in a work study

program, but there were a lot of

868

kids who showed up to the program

and go, thank God we left our family.

869

It's just, Oh, I can't stand them.

870

And I'm so happy I'm away.

871

And then I was like,

why would you say that?

872

I tell my mom everything.

873

And they're like, why would

you tell your mom everything?

874

And she goes, because we've always

just told each other everything.

875

And so she, they just

thought so, so differently.

876

There was such a separation

of the kids from their family.

877

And I'm, I'm guessing it's because

They, they've been separated.

878

So the kids they went on the trips

with weren't all homeschooled kids?

879

None of them were.

880

Oh, okay.

881

Just, just my kids.

882

That was kind of their first exposure

without us there to, to, to guide them.

883

Talia wanted to get them exposure out

and she said, let's go see the world,

884

we'll come, we'll find a program.

885

And we were expecting them to go

and, wow, I got to see all these.

886

Great places and meet new people

and they kind of came back with

887

what Tali was just describing was,

wow, these people, they're animals.

888

Well, it wasn't that they were

animals, it's just that they just

889

didn't There was such a separation

between them and the and their family.

890

Yeah.

891

Because they've been, they, they go to

school and they're just separate, right?

892

Um, and, and another thing I wanted

to say is there's that, is it

893

okay if I talk about woke stuff?

894

Yeah.

895

Oh, okay.

896

Openly.

897

You can talk about whatever you want.

898

So, my grandmother asked me

once how I didn't get kicked off

899

the radio for cursing so much.

900

Oh, okay.

901

This is the, the great

beyond of podcasting.

902

We can talk about whatever

you want on the hinterland.

903

Because that's, that's, that's one of

the things that That, um, that really

904

just blew my mind was this huge,

huge push for the, the woke agenda,

905

even in these overseas programs.

906

And I just remember Brianna landing

in London and the first class she

907

was in, her professor called her out

and said, what do you think about

908

transitioning, gender transition?

909

Well, first class and compare that

to a child growing into an adult.

910

And Brianna said, well, one is a natural

process and one is an unnatural process.

911

And that was all she said.

912

And later on that program, she was

called out on that by another student

913

who was a gender fluid person.

914

Right.

915

And literally the entire program

was set down and the one person

916

in the middle telling everybody

how they had microaggression.

917

What is the verb for that?

918

Microaggressed.

919

I don't even know what it is.

920

She was offended by everything.

921

Right.

922

Microaggression.

923

She was personally attacked by everything.

924

And so Brianna just felt like I

can't even discuss it intelligently.

925

I can't just, I can't talk

freely about how I feel.

926

That's interesting.

927

It was, she completely shut down

because she said, What is the point?

928

Nobody's going to listen to me.

929

Because there is only one right answer.

930

And it was the same thing for

my other kids in other programs.

931

It was this huge push, like gender

is fluid, it doesn't, the biological

932

fact is not, is not a fact, and

it was a work study program.

933

Right, it's conformity

over open discussion.

934

Yes.

935

Yes.

936

So like when, when you and

Slim were doing your talk.

937

And somebody was pushing back

saying, where's the proof?

938

Where's the proof, right?

939

It's a very, my impression.

940

I mean, I'm only a couple of

years trying to learn this stuff,

941

but my impression is it's, it's

show me, like, I don't trust you.

942

Show me, verify, and no

one was offended by it.

943

It wasn't like you stood up and said,

we're not going to do that here.

944

And it was there.

945

And what Tolly's describing is.

946

So when you're, when you're

homeschooling, you're, you're asking

947

the kids to think, what is your opinion?

948

I want you to do this.

949

You're going to, you actually have to.

950

So in their minds, that's

just the way that things are.

951

You think for yourself.

952

And you asked me a question,

I tell you, our, our daughter

953

goes out and she gets shut down.

954

And now the program is saying.

955

You can't talk, right?

956

It's, it's like the opposite of,

uh, or if you, if you oppose what

957

we tell you, then you are a bigot.

958

That's not even opposition.

959

It's if you ask the question, you're

labeled if you have a yes, if or

960

if you say dare you, you believe.

961

So, I was actually very proud that,

that our kids thought outside the

962

system and thought outside the

box and stood their ground, but

963

they paid a price for it, right?

964

So.

965

That's interesting.

966

Do you feel like, one of the things

that I experienced, I went through

967

the traditional education system, and

I, I actually had a, a very similar

968

relationship with my parents, or I have

a very similar relationship and growing

969

up to the one that it sounds like

you have with your children, where it

970

was, even though I spent a lot of time

in the traditional education system,

971

that kind of thinking and the, the

discipline involved was something that my

972

parents really heavily instilled in me.

973

And I feel like one of the things that

I benefited from kind of, uh, perversely

974

or maybe, um, despite it was that it kind

of hardened me to being in situations

975

with support from my parents where I was

surrounded by people who were very shut

976

down and were sort of forced to conform.

977

And I had the support from my parents

to like, you, you have to, it's on you

978

to kind of, to think outside the box and

to really kind of confront people with

979

that in a way where they can understand

how you're trying to communicate.

980

Anyway, this is a long winded way

of asking, do you feel like Your,

981

those experiences were ultimately

positive for your children.

982

Do you feel like they came through

those sort of having that experience

983

and having a better sense of how

they can navigate those situations?

984

The same way that maybe I did,

I think we're still in it.

985

I think she's in that in the

example where we're walking through,

986

she's still dealing with that.

987

And I mean, she's moving on.

988

She's, she's doing other, other

things, but I mean, that's her,

989

her first experience away from it.

990

It really shook her.

991

She, she really was, was shaken by that.

992

So I don't think you, you stop learning.

993

In the same way, if you're an adult

and you have a bad relationship or

994

something else happens, it, you're

not, you're not over it instantly.

995

And I think, so for me, I'm really

proud of the way they, they went

996

through those, but I, they're not back

to where they were before they went.

997

It, it impacted who they, who

they are and how they, they think.

998

And I wish I could say, yeah,

they're all a hundred percent

999

and they're just happy again.

00:50:18,611 --> 00:50:21,791

But it was almost like you went from I

don't want to say it wasn't protected,

00:50:21,881 --> 00:50:25,151

but he went from an environment where

they thought one way about the world

00:50:25,151 --> 00:50:29,251

and then they saw that the world wasn't,

that's not the way the world really was.

00:50:29,791 --> 00:50:32,441

And so there's all types of emotional

things that they went through.

00:50:32,491 --> 00:50:35,561

I think they're, they're just,

that's just their journey.

00:50:35,561 --> 00:50:37,961

That's what we all, when we go

through a different age, went

00:50:37,961 --> 00:50:39,131

through whatever we went through.

00:50:39,451 --> 00:50:43,301

And so, so I'm really proud of them,

but I don't think they're, it's over.

00:50:44,021 --> 00:50:44,321

Yeah.

00:50:44,321 --> 00:50:46,431

And you said, are they better for it?

00:50:46,451 --> 00:50:49,821

I think they, all three of them

would say, yes, we are better for it

00:50:49,851 --> 00:50:54,891

because we learned what we believe

aside from apart from the family,

00:50:54,891 --> 00:50:58,201

because before it was always, you

know, what mom and dad thought.

00:50:58,626 --> 00:51:02,116

That was what they assumed they

thought they had to step away

00:51:02,116 --> 00:51:06,276

to separate themselves from us

and decide what they believe.

00:51:06,656 --> 00:51:09,686

So they now have a better

understanding of what they

00:51:09,686 --> 00:51:12,136

believe themselves, but the scars.

00:51:13,081 --> 00:51:16,081

Carry through and they are still

trying to work through that.

00:51:16,261 --> 00:51:17,851

And then what I really like too.

00:51:17,951 --> 00:51:20,841

It's actually kind of cool

in a way It's a little scary.

00:51:22,051 --> 00:51:28,621

So we have four and one of our our second

oldest has almost become like a Counselor

00:51:29,701 --> 00:51:34,111

they can help coach each other Yeah So

we've because we've developed how they

00:51:34,121 --> 00:51:37,781

should treat each other with respect and

take responsibility all the things we

00:51:37,781 --> 00:51:43,241

were just going through they're there for

each other and sometimes One might feel

00:51:43,241 --> 00:51:47,071

more comfortable opening up to one of

their siblings and working through things.

00:51:47,661 --> 00:51:51,331

As a parent, I find that really hard

because I want to be the one that Is

00:51:51,331 --> 00:51:56,141

there to do whatever I want to be the one

that helps, but, um, we've developed a,

00:51:56,251 --> 00:51:59,721

within the family unit, a support system

because they support each other too.

00:51:59,941 --> 00:52:03,901

So it's, um, I think that's, it's a

side note, but it's, I found that it's,

00:52:03,911 --> 00:52:05,411

it's a result of all those other things.

00:52:05,411 --> 00:52:08,041

They now appreciate

what they went through.

00:52:08,101 --> 00:52:11,471

They have a perspective on it and

now they can relate to each other.

00:52:11,601 --> 00:52:13,041

There's a big corner, Jimmy Song.

00:52:13,041 --> 00:52:14,421

I think he has six children.

00:52:14,911 --> 00:52:17,731

He said after the third one, they

just start raising themselves.

00:52:19,866 --> 00:52:21,326

Self perpetuating algorithms.

00:52:22,156 --> 00:52:24,316

He's like, the first three are the

most difficult, and then after that

00:52:24,316 --> 00:52:25,586

Yeah, once you're in his own defense.

00:52:25,636 --> 00:52:26,016

Yeah.

00:52:27,266 --> 00:52:32,456

Um, I mean, this is a little bit

tangential, I think, but, uh, I

00:52:32,456 --> 00:52:35,666

wonder if that is, and obviously me

and Pete don't have any children.

00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:40,341

So we're just completely diving

in here, um, and trying to

00:52:40,341 --> 00:52:41,881

learn from, from you guys.

00:52:42,361 --> 00:52:47,771

Um, I feel like maybe one of the challenge

points for some people who choose to do

00:52:47,771 --> 00:52:52,951

homeschooling is that they would rather

indoctrinate their kids on what they

00:52:52,951 --> 00:52:58,491

believe rather than Empowering them

to be independent critical thinkers.

00:52:59,101 --> 00:53:03,791

Uh, I mean, I, I assume you guys

know a lot of other families that

00:53:03,791 --> 00:53:04,981

have chose to do homeschooling.

00:53:04,991 --> 00:53:09,481

Have you seen that as a pain point

for some families that like, their

00:53:09,481 --> 00:53:12,971

main goal of, or, or not their

main, not even intentionally, right?

00:53:12,971 --> 00:53:15,871

It's just like, they're just

trying to create mini me's rather

00:53:15,881 --> 00:53:17,441

than like new independent people.

00:53:18,651 --> 00:53:21,641

Yeah, we have seen, we have

seen families like that.

00:53:22,171 --> 00:53:26,811

I think the amazing thing about

children is that they pick up

00:53:26,811 --> 00:53:28,191

things that are not taught to them.

00:53:28,411 --> 00:53:28,711

Right.

00:53:29,231 --> 00:53:31,961

And they will, unless they've

been locked in a closet, which I

00:53:31,971 --> 00:53:33,251

don't know anybody who does that.

00:53:34,311 --> 00:53:37,871

Home schoolers are out there all

the time, interacting, interacting.

00:53:38,241 --> 00:53:46,286

So, even kids who are raised It's very,

very strict and literally with one option,

00:53:46,426 --> 00:53:50,816

you know, in their beliefs because of

the, the family beliefs, they are still

00:53:50,826 --> 00:53:54,966

constantly being exposed to other kids

and other families because they're

00:53:54,976 --> 00:53:59,796

out there and they have the freedom to

interact and, and talk and ask questions.

00:54:00,361 --> 00:54:02,041

And really question each other even.

00:54:02,421 --> 00:54:06,611

So I'm not too too worried about

that unless the families just

00:54:06,631 --> 00:54:10,171

only stay within their family or

they have a circle of friends who

00:54:10,171 --> 00:54:11,511

believe exactly the same thing.

00:54:11,851 --> 00:54:13,741

I don't think there's any way

that the kids are not going to

00:54:13,751 --> 00:54:15,331

be exposed to other beliefs.

00:54:15,671 --> 00:54:19,031

And eventually, as a person

matured, you can't help but

00:54:19,361 --> 00:54:20,811

Try to form your own identity.

00:54:20,841 --> 00:54:22,371

That's just a natural process.

00:54:22,731 --> 00:54:26,681

So, would you agree with me that if, if

there were like new parents listening

00:54:26,681 --> 00:54:32,391

right now, that, that a key fundamental

of, of going this route is that You are

00:54:32,391 --> 00:54:37,641

trying to empower the child to make their

own decisions rather than yeah, yeah,

00:54:37,641 --> 00:54:42,571

critical thinking for sure and I probably

tell my kids way too much because I am

00:54:42,601 --> 00:54:47,851

always explaining to them why I have come

to a conclusion or why I have come to

00:54:47,851 --> 00:54:51,431

a decision if I make them do anything,

I give them like a half an hour lecture

00:54:51,441 --> 00:54:53,191

on why I'm making them do something.

00:54:53,511 --> 00:54:56,321

To the point where they will look at

me like, mom, okay, that's enough.

00:54:56,321 --> 00:54:57,801

We just tell us we need to do it.

00:54:58,401 --> 00:55:03,701

But I feel that if I explain to them my

thinking process, then they know how I.

00:55:04,111 --> 00:55:07,181

At least the steps, mental steps

that I took to arrive there.

00:55:07,231 --> 00:55:10,941

And they can maybe emulate that in their

own mind and make their own decisions.

00:55:11,371 --> 00:55:15,071

And if you meet our kids, I don't think

you got to talk to, um, the two that came

00:55:15,081 --> 00:55:19,251

the other time, but if you meet them and

talk to them, you can see very quickly

00:55:19,251 --> 00:55:23,351

that they are very, very different people

and very different people from us even.

00:55:23,786 --> 00:55:27,116

And we actually take pride in that, right?

00:55:27,116 --> 00:55:31,916

I don't think even if we had set out to

make mini me's, I don't, I just don't

00:55:31,926 --> 00:55:34,516

think that's the way that we were built.

00:55:34,666 --> 00:55:39,486

I just don't think you could humanity

or you know, like, I just don't think

00:55:39,486 --> 00:55:44,836

if you said, you know, my kid's going

to be this way and that's it, good luck.

00:55:44,916 --> 00:55:45,386

I don't know.

00:55:45,386 --> 00:55:49,176

I just don't, I, there's certain

things that I, I had hoped that they

00:55:49,176 --> 00:55:51,906

would do, like I had gone into service

and I had hoped that at least one of

00:55:51,906 --> 00:55:55,786

them, but I don't think any of them

will, and you could fill, you might.

00:55:56,151 --> 00:55:59,091

Someone might be in a different

journey with their, their religious.

00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:00,316

Uh, status.

00:56:00,316 --> 00:56:01,536

It could be the academic.

00:56:01,536 --> 00:56:05,576

It could be, um, I don't wanna get too

personal on some of the other things

00:56:05,576 --> 00:56:09,366

going on with the relationships and

whatnot, but they're not doing what

00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:10,986

we would want them what we would do.

00:56:11,026 --> 00:56:11,986

They're not enemies.

00:56:12,186 --> 00:56:15,676

And I just, I just don't even

know if we had tried to do that.

00:56:15,706 --> 00:56:15,986

I.

00:56:16,056 --> 00:56:20,166

I don't see how anybody

could, could really do that.

00:56:20,166 --> 00:56:20,626

I just.

00:56:21,446 --> 00:56:27,646

That's interesting because my experience,

I've seen a lot of, and not, uh,

00:56:28,536 --> 00:56:30,546

not homeschooling specific, right?

00:56:30,556 --> 00:56:33,986

Just seeing a lot of parents that want

their kids to be exactly like them.

00:56:34,156 --> 00:56:34,696

Yeah.

00:56:34,816 --> 00:56:36,256

And like, this is the way you name names.

00:56:36,296 --> 00:56:37,066

I want to know who you're talking about.

00:56:38,726 --> 00:56:39,766

Um, yeah.

00:56:40,116 --> 00:56:41,286

Are they successful?

00:56:41,686 --> 00:56:41,876

Yeah.

00:56:41,876 --> 00:56:42,306

Do they do it?

00:56:42,476 --> 00:56:42,816

Who?

00:56:43,096 --> 00:56:44,826

The people you know.

00:56:45,506 --> 00:56:47,446

Like, are they, are they

successfully creating mini me's?

00:56:47,446 --> 00:56:47,836

Yeah.

00:56:47,836 --> 00:56:47,868

Yeah.

00:56:47,868 --> 00:56:47,901

Yeah.

00:56:48,331 --> 00:56:54,051

I mean, to a degree, I, I, I haven't

seen, you know, uh, I haven't followed

00:56:54,061 --> 00:56:59,491

up with the case studies to see like

how the kids have turned out, but, uh,

00:57:00,161 --> 00:57:04,381

I mean, you see it in like, you see it

in state school a lot, uh, like, uh,

00:57:05,021 --> 00:57:08,201

my experience going through school or

whatever, where the kids, you know, I'm

00:57:08,211 --> 00:57:13,676

like 14 years old, 15 years old, And like

the opinions and thought processes and

00:57:13,676 --> 00:57:19,316

perspectives of the child are essentially

just a direct rip of the parent and

00:57:19,316 --> 00:57:22,856

the kid doesn't know why he thinks

that or why that's the absolute truth.

00:57:22,866 --> 00:57:28,246

They just, it just, you know, uh,

drilled into them from a young age.

00:57:28,256 --> 00:57:33,006

And I just assume, I assume with

homeschooling that can be to the

00:57:33,386 --> 00:57:39,626

even worse extreme just because they

have full, um, right there, they

00:57:39,626 --> 00:57:41,186

have the full attention of the child.

00:57:41,216 --> 00:57:42,456

They don't have the other.

00:57:42,886 --> 00:57:47,746

Necessary other aspects and maybe

even, you know, maybe you don't see

00:57:47,746 --> 00:57:54,921

the worst versions of that because

those are the ones that I mean, you

00:57:54,921 --> 00:57:58,361

made the joke, which is like that

stereotype of like the negative

00:57:58,361 --> 00:58:01,541

homeschooling environment where Harry

Potter's locked in his cupboard, right?

00:58:01,571 --> 00:58:05,671

Where like he can't see anybody, but a

less extreme version of that where they

00:58:05,671 --> 00:58:08,681

aren't really exposed to other opinions.

00:58:08,681 --> 00:58:13,491

They aren't, you know, necessarily, you

know, in public and get to choose, you

00:58:13,491 --> 00:58:15,271

know, their route or where they're going.

00:58:16,101 --> 00:58:17,981

There's probably extreme cases of that.

00:58:18,246 --> 00:58:21,116

I think there has to be, but I also think,

you know, to this thing you said earlier,

00:58:21,146 --> 00:58:22,676

that children are incredibly adaptable.

00:58:22,676 --> 00:58:24,666

I feel like it's like, it's

almost like trying to like, you

00:58:24,666 --> 00:58:26,146

know, cup water in your hands.

00:58:26,146 --> 00:58:29,516

It's like people will find, and I

think especially as they're growing

00:58:29,516 --> 00:58:32,296

up, people find access to information.

00:58:32,831 --> 00:58:35,231

Even when you try to prevent

them from getting access to it.

00:58:35,231 --> 00:58:38,041

And so I feel like we're in a lot of

situations, the more pressure that

00:58:38,281 --> 00:58:40,761

parents try to put on their children to

be a certain way, like even if they're

00:58:40,761 --> 00:58:43,151

homeschooled, you know, the Harry

Potter analogy, like they're going to,

00:58:43,221 --> 00:58:45,181

they're going to look up weird shit

on their phone and they're going to

00:58:45,181 --> 00:58:46,481

be like, you know, what is this thing?

00:58:46,591 --> 00:58:47,761

How do I get access to it?

00:58:47,771 --> 00:58:48,541

And they're going to seek it out.

00:58:48,551 --> 00:58:52,881

Well, that's a whole different element,

which, you know, Not a parent yet, but

00:58:52,991 --> 00:58:59,581

scares the shit out of me, which is like

the balance of internet Social media like

00:58:59,581 --> 00:59:05,391

not wanting a kid that you know It's not a

like I would like my kid to be fluent with

00:59:05,391 --> 00:59:12,261

computers and technology and but also,

you know Social networks are predatory by

00:59:12,261 --> 00:59:18,081

design You need to talk to them And you

need to talk to them and you need to talk

00:59:18,081 --> 00:59:20,771

to them and you need to talk to them to

talk to them and you need to talk to them.

00:59:20,771 --> 00:59:22,168

Well then you, and then

you need to trust them.

00:59:22,168 --> 00:59:24,011

And then you need to trust them.

00:59:24,011 --> 00:59:29,081

They're going to make their own

mistakes and you're just, one

00:59:29,081 --> 00:59:30,161

thing is a hundred percent sure.

00:59:30,161 --> 00:59:32,131

At some point you're not going

to be next to them when they have

00:59:32,131 --> 00:59:33,451

to make a decision on something.

00:59:33,551 --> 00:59:33,861

Right.

00:59:33,981 --> 00:59:39,161

So my point of view is you do your

best to prepare them on how to,

00:59:39,561 --> 00:59:42,091

again, going back to the frameworks,

how to think about things.

00:59:42,991 --> 00:59:44,921

And then at some point you're

going to, you're going to

00:59:44,931 --> 00:59:46,051

have to take a leap of faith.

00:59:46,706 --> 00:59:53,316

And, and trust them to take action

on their own and, and I mean, a

00:59:53,316 --> 00:59:54,816

kid learns to walk by falling down.

00:59:54,816 --> 00:59:58,896

They, you, you ride a bike, you fall

down, there's no way you can teach them

00:59:58,896 --> 01:00:03,166

a hundred percent of the things to,

you know, they're going to be exposed

01:00:03,166 --> 01:00:06,936

to whatever on social media or it's

pornography or whatever it is that

01:00:07,226 --> 01:00:12,006

violence, whatever it might be, drugs, at

some point they're going to have to make

01:00:12,006 --> 01:00:13,446

their own decision when you're not there.

01:00:13,716 --> 01:00:17,006

And so you're, I think the best thing

you can do is you try to talk and talk

01:00:17,006 --> 01:00:22,196

and talk and prepare them, let them know

you're They, you're there if they ever

01:00:22,196 --> 01:00:27,696

need you, no matter what, it's, you know,

just whatever happens we're here for you.

01:00:28,816 --> 01:00:32,116

But at some point you have to,

you're going to have to let go.

01:00:32,206 --> 01:00:35,706