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₿HS016: Odell Opens the Door for Bitcoin Homeschoolers
Episode 165th January 2024 • Bitcoin Homeschoolers • Scott and Tali Lindberg
00:00:00 01:45:42

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Today, with Matt Odell’s permission, we’re re-publishing Citadel Dispatch 84.  Matt gave us the opportunity to join him on his podcast exactly one year ago.  That really opened up our minds to what was possible and, consequently, we did more than we ever thought was possible.  Now we’re more inspired than ever to give back to others, e.g., more podcasts with “Bitcoin Homeschoolers” and “Orange Hatter”; more bitcoin games, more in-person events, etc.

IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

  • Breaking one’s podcast virginity
  • Why should we care about homeschooling?  Why is it important?
  • Let the child lead.  Don’t hold their education back.
  • Let kids move around when they study.
  • Using grades can make kids feel labelled.
  • Let children have freedom to make mistakes and learn.  School systems teach kids to be afraid of making mistakes instead of embracing them.
  • Almost all of our pain points in society go back to education.
  • Instead of getting kids to an average level in every subject, let them pick an area to go deep with and excel in.
  • You do not need a teaching degree to homeschool.
  • Homeschooled kids are more comfortable with social interactions, not less.
  • Teaching self-discipline is a critical life skill.
  • Taking responsibility, how to handle difficult times, and other frameworks are things you, as a parent, choose to teach.
  • Biggest hurdles for young parents that want to homeschool
  • You can outsource teaching almost any subject
  • Homeschooling is 365.  Take care of yourself first.
  • You don’t have to be perfect.  
  • Homeschooling is taking self-custody of your (kids’) education. 
  • Spending time with your kids shows them they matter to you.
  • Separation of government and education 
  • Parents have the strongest incentive alignment possible with their children
  • Homeschooling kids are taught to think for yourself versus the conformity-driven woke agendas in state schools
  • Kids pick up things that not formally taught to them
  • At some point you have to trust your kids to make decisions on their own when you’re not there.  You have to let go.
  • Don’t be afraid.  There are so many resources.

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW:

HAPPY TO HELP:

  • Tali's Twitter @OrangeHatterPod
  • Scott's Twitter @ScottLindberg93
  • Scott's nostr npub19jkuyl0wgrj8kccqzh2vnseeql9v98ptrx407ca9qjsrr4x5j9tsnxx0q6
  • Free Market Kids' Twitter @FreeMarketKids
  • Orange Pill App @FreeMarketKids
  • Free Market Kids' games including HODL UP https://www.freemarketkids.com/collections/games

WAYS TO SUPPORT:

We are essentially our own sponsors and are so grateful for all of you who support this show.  Thank you!

STANDING RESOURCE RECOMMENDATIONS:

Mentioned in this episode:

Aleia Free Market Kids Full

Transcripts

Speaker:

one of the things that we talk a

lot about on Dispatch is Is the

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importance of education and everything.

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Like if you look at all the pain

points in our society, it almost always

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goes back to education at some level,

um, whether that is Bitcoin related

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education or any other kind of education.

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And our first child was born, and I

held her in my arms, and I looked at

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her, and I thought to myself, I don't

want her to be raised by somebody else

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You like build it up in your head, right?

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We build up in our heads.

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That's bullshit.

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Obviously, that's not actually real

because 90 percent of the time I was

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in school, I was not learning anything.

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But the truth of the matter is like,

even if you send your kid to, to state

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school, like it's still your fault.

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If the kid turns out bad, like if

your child, like this idea that that

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person doesn't have responsibility is

like this crazy thing that we've just.

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Turned in our in our society

where it's like we have excuses.

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That's not our fault

The teachers are crap,

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Welcome Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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I am so excited to share this episode.

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And to understand why.

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Let me give just a little context here.

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It was exactly one year ago that

tally and I had an experience

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that forever changed our course.

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And it's an event.

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That has opened doors.

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We didn't even know

existed in the last year.

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We've been able to do more

than we ever thought possible.

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So what happened?

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Well, He visited Bitcoin park

and Matt Odell invited us to.

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Come on to Citadel dispatch

to discuss homeschooling.

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With his permission.

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We are replaying Citadel dispatch, 84.

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Uh, Bitcoin homeschoolers.

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On this one-year anniversary.

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So Matt, thank you for being who you are.

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Thank you for having us as your guests.

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And thank you for letting us.

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Replay our first podcast ever for those

who haven't heard this discussion yet.

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You're in for a treat.

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And the key messages have aged very well.

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I think just one important

thing to remember.

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Is this as a replay of the

whole show and it's a live show.

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The introductory comments may no

longer be the best way to support.

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Citadel dispatch.

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Uh, especially thinking of

Twitter, stick to Nasr these days.

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And certainly don't go

looking for the live rooms.

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But with that note, let's jump in.

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Enjoy.

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Happy Bitcoin Saturday freaks.

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It's your boy Odell here with the

first Citadel Dispatch of the new year.

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First of all, Happy New Year to you all.

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Uh, it's going to be a great year.

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And uh, I look forward to living

through it with everybody.

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Citadel Dispatch is a show

focused on actionable discussion

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on Bitcoin and freedom tech.

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I'm your host Odell.

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We do not have ads or sponsors.

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We purely rely on donations from y'all.

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So thank you to everyone who

continues to support the show.

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You can easily support the show

by going to still dispatch.

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com on the bottom.

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It says, contribute Bitcoin

Ron geyser fund now.

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Um, so if you donate Bitcoin through

on chain or lightning, you can attach a

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message, you can sign on with Twitter.

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If you want your little Twitter badge

there, uh, we have a leaderboard, uh,

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you can try and climb the ranks of

the leaderboard, which is pretty cool.

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And also you can support the

show through podcasting 2.

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0 apps, such as fountain

podcasts, breeze wallet.

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podverse.

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fm, echoln.

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com.

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They work like regular podcast apps,

except you load them up with Bitcoin.

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You load them up with sats.

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You decide how many sats per

minute you think the show is worth.

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Um, and then as you listen, those

sats are streamed directly to my node.

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It's extremely empowering, extremely cool.

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To be able to open my Zeus wallet,

connect it to my own node and

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see those stats streaming in

directly from this global audience.

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I do appreciate y'all another

great way to support the show.

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I know it's a bear market.

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I know it's a recession is to simply

subscribe on your favorite platform.

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We're on everything.

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Rumble, Twitter, Twitch.

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YouTube, BitcoinTV.

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com, every podcast app.

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Uh, subscribing does help, leaving

reviews does help, sharing with

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friends and family does help.

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And then last but not least, this

is a live, unedited show with

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direct audience participation.

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I am not the only host.

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Y'all are the hosts as well.

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And I appreciate everyone who

joins us in the live chat, whether

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that's in our Matrix Rooms.

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We have two Matrix Rooms.

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One's encrypted, one's not encrypted.

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There's a whole debate over that.

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I'm not gonna get into it right now.

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And then we also have You can

join the chat on Twitch or YouTube

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and those those chat items.

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I mean, if you're watching

right now, you'll see.

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I'm, we're the only show in Bitcoin

where your chat is live broadcast on.

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It's, anything you say

is in the broadcast.

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So I appreciate you guys for joining us.

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And just know that I'm not

doing any moderation there.

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Sometimes your message from YouTube

or Twitch might not show up.

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That's just the algo messing with you.

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And there's nothing I can do about that.

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I'm, I don't do any

moderation on that front.

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So thank you everyone who

continues to join the live chat.

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I know recently Uh, I've been springing

shows on you guys without too much notice.

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So it means even more when you join

very little notice on a Saturday, but

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we have this fantastic in person studio

at Bitcoin Park in Nashville, and I

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have some great people in town, so we're

going to have this fantastic conversation

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on a Saturday, but before we start.

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Um, another way you can support

the show via Podcasting 2.

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0 is something called Boostergrams.

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Boostergrams allow you to send

a certain amount of Bitcoin.

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You choose how much Bitcoin you want to

send and you can attach a message to it.

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Uh, those messages are

displayed in most Podcasting 2.

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0 apps.

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They're also displayed on GeyserFund.

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So that GeyserFund page you can

get to by going to satsperminute.

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com or going to salesdispatch.

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com and clicking.

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Uh, donate with Bitcoin that actually

shows the leaderboard of the podcasting 2.

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0 people too.

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So like if you go, um, if you're just

streaming sats and you don't put any

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messages, you're actually moving up

the leaderboard on guys are based on

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your podcasting So like our number

two on the leaderboard right now.

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Is at user 8 2 5 6 8 8 4 on

fountain and he has donated.

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Yeah, that's pretty crazy.

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He's he, he has supported the show with

846, 000 sats, almost a million sats just

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from streaming sats or number seven on the

leaderboard is uncle thinks on fountain.

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He's done, it looks like over 260 times.

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He's, he's streamed sats to the

show and almost have 500, 000 sats.

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So thank you freaks.

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For continuing support.

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But before we get started, let me just

read some booster grams as we always do.

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This is a little bit different

because we did take a Christmas break.

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So the last two shows have been,

uh, from Bitcoin Park live events.

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Um, we have at bond with 71, 000

sats on my Bitcoin basics panel.

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I did at the beef initiative at Bitcoin

Park saying the amount of time you

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have dedicated through all various

mediums is incredibly appreciated.

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Thank you for your time, all the

advice, knowledge, and positive

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messages throughout the years.

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Value for value.

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Orange heart.

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Puppy sale.

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Appreciate you, Bond.

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Thank you for the support.

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We have ride or die freak Eric99 with 50,

000 sats saying thanks for all you do.

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Smiley face.

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Then I'm going to go

to the fireside I did.

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With Texas Slim, also at Bitcoin

Park, we have Eric99, once

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again, Rider Dive Freak with stay

humble stack stats, great advice.

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We have Ape Mithrandir, another

Rider Dive Freak with uh,:

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saying Texas Slim speaks very well.

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And then I'm gonna go to our last actual

dispatch that we've had, which was with

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Texas Slim, Cole Bolton, and Jason.

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Um, And we have that user I was talking

:

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saying I love steak with 100, 000 sats.

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And we have our Saris BTC with

55, 555 sats saying awesome

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rip Jason Cole and Slim.

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I can speak to both Jason and Cole's beef.

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They're both amazing.

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Definitely looking forward to

seeing everyone again soon at

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another beef initiative event.

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Thanks Matt for your leadership here.

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So I know this has been a long preamble.

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It was a long holiday.

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I haven't been with you guys for a while.

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Uh, before we jump into the show,

I just want to say, uh, you guys

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make it all worth it, so thank you.

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And then second of all, we have a

crazy week here at Bitcoin Park.

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If you are in the Nashville area,

consider going to bitcoinpark.

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co and seeing our lineup of events.

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We have so many great

Bitcoiners coming into town.

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I've already lined up some

great conversations, uh, that

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are going to be on dispatch.

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We're gonna have Dylan LeClaire

back on Monday at 6:00 PM Central

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Time, 7:00 PM Eastern Time.

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So definitely consider

joining us for that.

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I have a mini script conversation, uh,

jumping into technical Bitcoin with

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Vivic and Rob, um, Rob of anchor watch.

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Uh, that's gonna be on Wednesday

morning, Wednesday morning.

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Yeah, that's going to

be on Wednesday morning.

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I think at 11 central time.

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Sorry that I'm not more

prepared for you freaks.

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And then we have a bunch

more conversations.

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Also, all the conversations that

happen at the park, well most of

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them, without the Q& A component, get

posted to the Bitcoin Park podcast

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feed so you can search Bitcoin Park

in your favorite podcasting app.

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And catch a lot of that content

if you can't join, but it's

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always better to come in person.

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Okay.

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I appreciate you guys for bearing

with me on this long intro.

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We have a great conversation today,

a little bit out of my wheelhouse,

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but something that is very important

and I'm very excited about that is

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homeschooling and also Bitcoin games.

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Bitcoin games can be very helpful

in an educational environment, uh,

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to have this conversation we have.

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Two people that have become very

good friends of mine, uh, just

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from meeting them at Bitcoin Park.

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They drove in, um, they drove into

Bitcoin Park looking to see what

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the Bitcoin community over here was

all about and, uh, we really just

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hit it off a couple months ago.

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Um, we have Scott here.

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How's it going, Scott?

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It's going fantastic.

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Thank you, Scott.

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And Scott's here with

his wonderful wife, Tali.

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How's it going, Tali?

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Really good.

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Happy to be here.

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Love it.

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Love it.

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I think this might be their first podcast.

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Is this your first podcast ever?

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Yes, it is.

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Yes, it is.

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Love it.

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And here to break their podcast virginity

with me is ride or die freak, P.

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How's it going, P?

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It is going fantastically.

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I'm honored to be here, my friend.

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Thanks for inviting me.

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P was sitting in Bitcoin Park, uh, When

we decided that we were going to do

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this dispatch and I roped him into it.

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So very excited to have P here.

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Hell yeah.

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Okay, so we are talking

about homeschooling.

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We are talking about Bitcoin games.

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Before we get started, I just

wanted to say to the freaks, I

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played a lot of Bitcoin games.

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This game that, that Scott

designed is, is simply the best

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Bitcoin game I've ever played.

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But we're not going to start with that.

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What we're going to start

with is homeschooling.

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And why are we going to?

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Why are we going to talk about

homeschooling with this group?

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We're going to talk about homeschooling

with this group because Tali and

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Scott have four children and they

homeschooled all four children.

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So I think that brings, makes you

as close to a homeschooling expert

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as you can possibly be, Tali.

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Um, homeschooling.

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Why should we care?

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Why do you do it?

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Why is it important?

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Well, hello everybody.

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I'm so happy to be here.

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Um, homeschooling For us, when

we first started, it was almost

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an accidental, um, event.

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We weren't planning to do that.

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We were originally going to go

traditional and, you know, send

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the kids to private school, go the

Ivy League route, all that stuff.

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But as the kids got older, we

realized that if we went the

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Structured academic route.

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There were a lot of restrictions

on what the kids can and cannot do.

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It was very almost conveyor belt

like, you know, the kids are moved

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from one stage to another stage and

with very little variation allowed

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in what they're supposed to be doing.

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So an example would be when my, my

oldest was three and I was thinking

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about putting her in preschool.

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I toured the local preschools.

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Like every single one of them and I

interviewed the principals and the

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teachers and I just specifically remember

this one school that I stopped at.

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The principal was English, her, you know,

she sounded really intelligent and we were

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walking down the hall and she was pointing

at all the different artwork and, and, uh,

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ABCs and words that they were learning.

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And I asked her this one question, I

said, do you teach your kids to read?

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These are three, four, five year olds.

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And I will never forget her answer to me.

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She said, Oh, no, no,

no, we don't do that.

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And I asked her why.

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And she said, well, we don't want

them to be bored in kindergarten.

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What?

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And I said, so if a child is ready

and willing, you would purposefully

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not teach that child to read.

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And she said, yes, because we

don't want them to be bored.

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And that just blew my mind.

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It absolutely blew my mind.

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My oldest was three.

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I had already been teaching her ABCs and.

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So I, I didn't send her to that preschool.

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I did end up taking her, my oldest to

a different preschool and while the

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other kids were learning how to spell

cat with the, you know, it's the C A T

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and their B is for boy and D is for dog.

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That kind of thing.

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She was already reading chapter

books because I taught her as

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she was ready to move forward.

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Not because I said, okay, wait,

you're four and you should be

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able to only do this amount.

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And so I'm going to stop there.

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You let the child lead, and that's,

that's been the best experience that we've

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been able to enjoy is let the child lead

when they're ready to go forward, you

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move them forward, but if they have some

trouble, if they're not language inclined,

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they're more mathematically challenged,

then you just say, okay, if the addition

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doesn't make sense to you right now,

you Explain it to them a different way

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or you use a different method or you,

for example, for our boys, they're

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very active when they do school work.

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It's really helpful to allow

them to move, which is not

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possible in the school system.

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So, for example, are our second oldest.

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He memorized the multiplication

table while he was jumping on our

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sofa and it just worked for him.

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But that's just, he's literally just

jumping up and down on the sofa.

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He was jumping on the table.

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Yes, that was how he recited

and that was fine with me.

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I don't care how he learns it,

just learn it, you know, and if he

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doesn't get it, then we do it again.

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I see P's mind running.

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He's like, damn, I think I

can learn things that way.

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Yeah, exactly.

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What's going through my mind?

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He did.

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Whatever it was, as long

as he was doing his thing.

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Hold it closer to your mouth.

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Sorry.

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Yeah.

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And also, also you don't, we, we don't

agree in grading, especially when

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the kids are learning a new skill.

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We want to give them feedback by

saying, okay, that didn't work.

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Let's try it again.

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But if you give them a grade, which I

think a lot of schools are really quick

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to do, they label themselves immediately.

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So if you say, okay, you haven't

memorized the multiplication table,

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I give you your test, you get an 83.

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Right.

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That's a passable grade.

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You move on the parts

that they didn't get.

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That could be really key for the

next phase of their education,

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but they just, they get moved on.

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But in the homeschooling environment,

you get to say, okay, you didn't get

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17 percent of what you were tested.

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Let's go back and revisit the 17%.

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And there's no labeling.

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There's no, you're a B student.

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You're a C student.

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It doesn't matter.

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Let's get it all completely

mastered a hundred percent.

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And then you move on and.

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I feel like that gives the children

freedom to make mistakes, and it's through

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the mistakes that we learn the fastest.

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But I think our school systems teach the

kids to be afraid of mistakes because

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they have the report card that they

have to bring home to their parents, you

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know, and they're labeled immediately.

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I'm good at math.

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I'm not good at math.

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I'm good at English.

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I'm not good.

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You don't need to do that, really.

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I don't believe that.

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Right.

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I mean, one of the things that we

talk a lot about on Dispatch is Is the

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importance of education and everything.

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Like if you look at all the pain

points in our society, it almost always

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goes back to education at some level,

um, whether that is Bitcoin related

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education or any other kind of education.

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With the beef initiative, we

talk about lack of, uh, food

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intelligence, lack of this idea

of where does your food come from?

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What is good quality food?

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Like, how do you, how are you nutritious?

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And you go right back.

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It's education, education, education.

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Um, but meanwhile.

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Like the core of our society's education

system is this, is this government

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school system, right, which is basically

geared to the lowest common denominator.

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It's not really geared

to individual students.

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:

You said this term child led learning.

371

:

Mm hmm.

372

:

Um, and I feel like that is really,

that captures, that, that captures

373

:

the value prop, this idea that Mm hmm.

374

:

It is actual education that's

geared to these individual, your

375

:

individual children, not just

this concept of children, right?

376

:

Like this, like everybody has to be at

least average in all kinds of subjects.

377

:

And one of the books that I read really

early on when the kids were little

378

:

was a book by Jennifer Fox and it's

called finding your child's strength.

379

:

And she talked about how going

forward when we compete against.

380

:

The world, the whole entire world,

when you're talking about job, you

381

:

know, job seeker and, you know,

corporations and whatever, you,

382

:

you think about competing against

every country under the sun, right?

383

:

Who has access to the internet

and you can't be average.

384

:

You have to be superb.

385

:

In an area, and in order for you to do

that, you have to be allowed to pour

386

:

your time and effort into that one area.

387

:

So for example, right now, I think,

generally speaking, people believe

388

:

that kids have to achieve a certain

level of math accomplishment, right?

389

:

Whether it's algebra or

pre algebra, whatever.

390

:

But is that absolutely necessary?

391

:

Because it's not.

392

:

How many life skills actually

require the knowledge of algebra

393

:

and how many job skills actually

require the knowledge of algebra.

394

:

And yet we spent so much time making sure

that every single child has that level.

395

:

But if they use that same amount of

time in an area that child is already

396

:

strong at and naturally inclined to excel

at, then how much further can they go

397

:

with that same amount of time invested?

398

:

So that's a, that's a really

great book, I think, for your

399

:

listeners to maybe check out.

400

:

Um, but that was really impactful

for me to not try to get my kids

401

:

up to like some average level for

every single subject, but to really

402

:

pick an area and excel in it.

403

:

So, I mean, you've never done this before.

404

:

This is the first time you've

homeschooled children, presumably.

405

:

What was your, what was

your background before you?

406

:

My background, uh, I actually met my

husband at business school, and the,

407

:

our plan always was I was going to go

into investment banking, and our plan

408

:

was always have a child, you know, stay

at home for a few months, get a nanny,

409

:

and then I was going to go back to work.

410

:

And our first child was born, and I held

her in my arms, and I looked at her, and

411

:

I thought to myself, I don't want her

to be raised by somebody else because

412

:

if I went back to investment banking,

I was going to leave the house before

413

:

she woke up and I was going to come home

after she went to bed and I was never

414

:

going to see her and she was not going

to know who I am and I won't know her.

415

:

So we talked about it and decided that.

416

:

He was gonna just be a single single

income earner and uh, and I was gonna

417

:

stay home with the kids Well at the

time one kid, but yeah And then we like

418

:

I said before we fell into this whole

homeschooling thing because I didn't know

419

:

it was an option and then when I knew it

was an option, I thought you had to have

420

:

a teacher's degree, but Since we started

into it, I realized that there are so many

421

:

options under the sun, so many different

combinations of ways to homeschool your

422

:

child, and you can always outsource

a subject that you're not good at.

423

:

There's so many resources out

there, there's so much support,

424

:

and there's a huge community, and

the number one com Not complain.

425

:

Number one concern that our families

have when we decide to homeschool was

426

:

your child is going to be a hermit,

you know, he she will not be able to to

427

:

have hold a conversation with anybody.

428

:

And that is the farthest

thing from the truth.

429

:

If you ever meet a homeschool

child, they can talk to anybody

430

:

because they're a hermit.

431

:

In the world with their parents, they are

interacting with people of all ages, of

432

:

all capacity, all roles, all the time.

433

:

They're not stuck in a classroom

in a teacher student peer

434

:

situation most of the day.

435

:

They are out there interacting.

436

:

And so they actually are

much more comfortable.

437

:

Interacting with people socially

than I would say a typical student.

438

:

I mean, you brought your kids to

Bitcoin Park the other day and

439

:

they were building seed signers.

440

:

Yep.

441

:

Building their own hardware wall.

442

:

That's interesting.

443

:

One thing that you mentioned was, um, the

idea of allowing your children to focus

444

:

in on the areas that they are specifically

excited about or interested in.

445

:

How do you find the balance between, um,

encouraging them to also You know, learn

446

:

things that don't come as naturally to

them or that they get bored of easily.

447

:

And I'm asking as a person who

experienced this a lot as a child.

448

:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

449

:

So.

450

:

So I do, I encourage them to pursue

what they're interested in because we

451

:

have the time to do it because they

are not spending The time commuting on

452

:

the school bus going to school and you

know going from class to class So they

453

:

do have more time to do that but at the

same time I'm Chinese and so the whole

454

:

tiger mom thing comes into play just

a little bit and Discipline was a huge

455

:

huge thing that I talked about with

the kids and I remember specifically

456

:

Brianna would be very unwilling.

457

:

She, this is not a competitive person,

but we put them in sports for, you know,

458

:

physical fitness, things like that.

459

:

And when she would be

hesitant because she.

460

:

wasn't sure she was going to win or

something required her to practice

461

:

longer, like piano or something

longer than she thought she should.

462

:

Then the discipline comes into play.

463

:

And I would tell her it's easy for

you to do things that are easy to you.

464

:

It's hardest for you to do something.

465

:

That you don't want to do, do, you

don't want to do, but you should

466

:

do, and you find challenging.

467

:

And I did give them a

lot of lectures on that.

468

:

So really focusing in on the value of

discipline, using those as opportunities

469

:

to hone that skill set specifically.

470

:

Yes, for the purpose of discipline,

not for the purpose of, I think

471

:

you should be a master musician

because you're just supposed to,

472

:

nothing, not, not for that reason.

473

:

Yeah, absolutely.

474

:

But I think that that

sense of discipline is.

475

:

Often lacking in students today because

there's so many people who just say,

476

:

I'm not good at math and therefore they

just kind of toss it out the window

477

:

and that I'm just not good at that.

478

:

I mean, the other thing we talked about

a lot on dispatch is, uh, this idea

479

:

of personal responsibility and this

idea that society has kind of groomed

480

:

personal responsibility out of us.

481

:

And I mean, you see that in the

government school system, right?

482

:

It's like the teachers aren't

responsible for the kids because the

483

:

parents are helicoptering parenting,

but then the parents aren't.

484

:

responsible for the kids because

they're in school with the teacher.

485

:

So it's like, who is actually

responsible for the kid's education?

486

:

Is it the person setting, you know, the

standard bodies over in Washington, um,

487

:

on what their test scores should be?

488

:

And all of a sudden you end up

in a situation where nobody's

489

:

responsible for the child, right?

490

:

The child is responsible for themselves.

491

:

Um, and it's just a

completely broken incentives.

492

:

Yeah, I think it'd be really tough for

a teacher to have 30 students there.

493

:

I mean, I empathize with that.

494

:

That would be really hard.

495

:

I just can't imagine that they

would have the time to say,

496

:

You know, this just happened.

497

:

Let's take a moment and

talk about responsibility.

498

:

Whereas your homeschooling, if you ask

our kids, everything was a lecture.

499

:

Right?

500

:

It was.

501

:

You get to take the garbage cans out.

502

:

Why did you not do that?

503

:

You know, and it could be a ten minute

discussion on doing the right thing.

504

:

Even if it was cold

outside or whatever it is.

505

:

And so you, you're shaping their framework

on how they view things and you just.

506

:

They're going to pick that up from

somewhere, so it's probably going

507

:

to be their peers or whatever social

media or whatever it is that they get,

508

:

they're, they're paying attention to,

but when you're homeschooling, you have

509

:

the opportunity to say, let me give

you a viewpoint on how you approach

510

:

difficulty, responsibility, fill in the

blank with whatever you, you want, you

511

:

get, you're the one that gets to shape.

512

:

The framework that they're going

to use for other decisions and

513

:

when you're not there to help them.

514

:

Do you think that's the biggest hurdle

for maybe young parents that want

515

:

to do homeschooling is, is, is that?

516

:

All the discipline

responsibilities on them.

517

:

It's like, that's something you

can't like learn in a book, right?

518

:

That's like, uh, you have to

actually be willing to do it.

519

:

Yeah, I think it's fear.

520

:

And I think there's an unrealistic

expectation that you have to

521

:

be the expert on every subject.

522

:

Right.

523

:

Like, oh, I couldn't teach

biology or whatever it was.

524

:

And Tali's right, you can outsource.

525

:

Almost any subject.

526

:

So how does that look, the outsource?

527

:

Right.

528

:

Kids gonna learn biology.

529

:

You're not a biologist.

530

:

Right, so I think most cities

would have homeschooler co ops.

531

:

And also, a lot of private

schools would offer cottage

532

:

school programs for homeschoolers.

533

:

So it's almost like part time.

534

:

Private school.

535

:

So, for example, in Louisville, there

is a place where I think a lot of, um,

536

:

homeschoolers with high school kids

would send their kids to, and they go

537

:

to school two days a week, and they

do their homework at home three days a

538

:

week, and the parents don't teach at all.

539

:

They monitor.

540

:

Right.

541

:

So that's, that's an option.

542

:

And then you can also do

So that's not what you do.

543

:

I didn't, I did some of that.

544

:

Okay.

545

:

For example, I wanted the kids to

learn Latin, and I was not about to go

546

:

teach them Latin, because I, I don't.

547

:

No, Latin.

548

:

I also try to teach them science

in the very beginning, but the

549

:

setup and prepping for the science

experiments took so much time.

550

:

I just couldn't do it.

551

:

So I outsourced those.

552

:

Musical theater, I think is super,

super important for literally everybody

553

:

because it teaches them how to Get

over stage fright, present themselves,

554

:

uh, speak well in front of people.

555

:

So I think that's really important,

but you can't do that at home.

556

:

So I send them to a co op to do musical

theater, drama, that type of stuff.

557

:

So yeah, just combination.

558

:

There's so many resources out there.

559

:

Is there's no reason for anybody

to be afraid of it unless they

560

:

just haven't been directed where

to go and look for solutions.

561

:

Interesting.

562

:

Do you feel like, do you feel like the

experience of being an educator or really

563

:

adopting the role as educator rather

than only as parent has changed the

564

:

way That you view your own education.

565

:

Oh, absolutely.

566

:

I think we grew more than the kids did.

567

:

I don't, I had no idea of

going into it what to expect.

568

:

But it, yeah, it's just,

you have to go through it.

569

:

You have to experience it.

570

:

It's hard to.

571

:

If I told you how to do a podcast

versus you actually having to set it

572

:

up and having to do it, um, there's

something in the actual action

573

:

and being responsible for that.

574

:

But I have no formal podcast education.

575

:

No, just trial by fire.

576

:

And that's true for parenting.

577

:

Really.

578

:

It really is.

579

:

And homeschooling, I think

is exactly the same thing.

580

:

And I think I had more fun than

my kids when I was homeschooling

581

:

because I was learning so much.

582

:

I learned more trying to, Learn

enough to teach them than I did going

583

:

through all the branding schools

and I would take a book and instead

584

:

of handing it over to them, I would

read and be like, this is so cool.

585

:

I love this book.

586

:

You know, I will order books and they will

come in, you know, in the, in the boxes

587

:

and I'll open like, I love these books.

588

:

And I would just hug them.

589

:

I get so excited, I get so excited.

590

:

That's fantastic.

591

:

What's been the hardest thing for you to.

592

:

Do as part of this process, what's

been the most challenging aspect

593

:

of homeschooling your children?

594

:

I think it doesn't have to

do with homeschooling per se.

595

:

To me, the biggest challenge was I had

switched jobs a couple times and Tali

596

:

took, she spent hours and hours and

hours trying to find the right activities

597

:

and the right resources in an area.

598

:

And when you disrupt that, um, If,

you know, if I could go back, I think

599

:

that might be one thing that I would

try to change because it, it disrupted

600

:

all those things and you have to kind

of like reset and restart and restart

601

:

the actual, the actual teaching part.

602

:

It's not, I mean, kids are

really resilient, right?

603

:

If you, if you messed up and you

didn't teach whatever you thought

604

:

you were going to teach them, like

they're just really resilient and

605

:

you can catch up on almost anything.

606

:

Plus homeschools 365, it's not

like you have this, Oh, the

607

:

summer they're, they're off.

608

:

Our kids didn't understand

what a vacation was.

609

:

Because Tali just kept on going and

if we were taking time off because

610

:

we wanted to go do a trip, we did it.

611

:

We had that flexibility.

612

:

But it wasn't like the

same time every year.

613

:

No.

614

:

And it was, you know, it

could be the middle of summer.

615

:

They didn't understand that, wait,

other people are not in school.

616

:

So you're, you, there's no, when I

grew up, that was like the best feeling

617

:

ever, that, the day before summer break.

618

:

Yeah, my poor kids never knew that.

619

:

You know, you all run out, you all run out

of school together, just like screaming.

620

:

School's out, school's out.

621

:

Um, I, going back to your question, Pete,

about the challenges, I think, I think

622

:

the, the biggest challenge was feeling

100 percent responsible for your child

623

:

and how they, Hopefully children and

how they turn out because I have nobody

624

:

to blame except myself because I'm it.

625

:

I am the parent.

626

:

I'm the teacher.

627

:

I'm the principal.

628

:

I'm the counselor.

629

:

I am everything and there were so

many times when I wanted to quit.

630

:

There were so many times when I just

I was talking to Scott Lee and I'll

631

:

be like, I, I can't do it anymore.

632

:

I have, I have to send them to

school because I'm going to go crazy.

633

:

But it was more.

634

:

It was not because the

kids were difficult.

635

:

It was.

636

:

All the pressure on myself that I had

to make sure they were emotionally

637

:

healthy and they were physically healthy.

638

:

So I'm trying to cook the dinner

while they are doing their homework.

639

:

I never got a break.

640

:

There was no break for me because

it was when they were investing.

641

:

I was prepping for class

when they were doing class.

642

:

I was cooking when I was driving.

643

:

I was memorizing poems with

them when I was driving.

644

:

I was playing.

645

:

It was like there was no break.

646

:

So that was the biggest challenge.

647

:

And for anybody who's thinking about

homeschooling out there, I would just

648

:

say, take care of yourself first.

649

:

That's number one.

650

:

And in what way?

651

:

As in.

652

:

Yes, you are responsible a hundred

percent, but you can outsource and,

653

:

and you don't need to be perfect.

654

:

I think that's the biggest

message I want to tell people.

655

:

You don't have to be perfect and

your kids will turn out great.

656

:

So don't, don't be too hard on

yourself is my impression is some

657

:

people think homeschoolers They just

let their kids do nothing all day.

658

:

They're just sitting around.

659

:

My impression is the opposite.

660

:

They're really intense.

661

:

The kind of the tiger mom type of

thing that Tali's talking about.

662

:

And you put these expectations on yourself

that are so hard that you're just like,

663

:

well, I can fit one more activity in.

664

:

I can do one more thing.

665

:

And it's the self pressure

that you're right.

666

:

They're competing with these

kids in school that are just

667

:

constantly learning all the time.

668

:

You like build it up in your head, right?

669

:

We build up in our heads.

670

:

That's bullshit.

671

:

Obviously, that's not actually real

because 90 percent of the time I was

672

:

in school, I was not learning anything.

673

:

Right.

674

:

It was just like, absolutely.

675

:

Yeah.

676

:

I think when we first started, um,

some of the season homeschooling

677

:

mamas were saying, don't think

you're not doing enough because

678

:

you're already doing more than what.

679

:

Other kids are getting in school because

there's so much travel time, transition

680

:

time, uh, you know, going from class to

class, and then setting up, taking down,

681

:

all that stuff, and we, because we don't

have to do that, we were already ahead

682

:

by several hours per day, and then the

individual attention we give to the kids

683

:

far surpasses how many hours they sit

in the classroom in a corner at a desk.

684

:

Yeah, it's almost, I think it's almost

ironic, you know, the self pressure about.

685

:

The responsibility of what you

have and to me, and I can say this

686

:

because it's a Bitcoin audience.

687

:

It's like yourself.

688

:

You're taking self custody of

your education and you're, yeah,

689

:

there's so much overlap there.

690

:

You're, you're being responsible.

691

:

You're, you're responsible for it.

692

:

And um, I don't know, I have some

other things on that depending

693

:

where you want to go with it.

694

:

Well, that's like what Tali was saying

where she's like, one of the biggest

695

:

hurdles is that you feel this immense

personal responsibility over everything.

696

:

Because there's no one else to blame.

697

:

But the truth of the matter is like,

even if you send your kid to, to state

698

:

school, like it's still your fault.

699

:

If the kid turns out bad, like if

your child, like this idea that that

700

:

person doesn't have responsibility is

like this crazy thing that we've just.

701

:

Turned in our in our society

where it's like we have excuses.

702

:

That's not our fault The teachers are

crap, you know, this is bad all these

703

:

reasons why the kid turned out bad not

that you know You were not a responsible

704

:

parent in the first place Yeah, right And

I think really all kids want to know is

705

:

that they matter to you and it's how do

you demonstrate that they matter to you?

706

:

You spend time with them and that's

one of the things that that I've

707

:

just recently started to really

think about is this whole quality

708

:

versus quantity of time discussion.

709

:

I think there's been this really

huge push for people to believe

710

:

that they can have it all.

711

:

They can have the career and the

family and be parents and everything.

712

:

The most important part is the quality

time, you know, you, you take them out on

713

:

a trip and you spend quality time or you

take them bowling and it's quality time

714

:

and I'm not saying any of that is bad.

715

:

It's all very important, but there are

quantity of time that just needs to be

716

:

there so that you can notice the little

things because live The little things

717

:

like if your child has a nosebleed and

you're there and you're holding the

718

:

tissue of the nose and go, this is how

you apply pressure, like little things

719

:

like that, they add up and then they

trust you and they tell you stuff.

720

:

And the discussions that we have.

721

:

Over the kitchen counter, I

think, have been so key, a part

722

:

of the homeschooling education.

723

:

It's not just about the economics at all,

because in the end, how well you read or

724

:

how well you can write essays, it just

doesn't matter as much as do they believe

725

:

they matter, number one, to their parents,

and also how do they interpret the world

726

:

around them, right, in a healthy way.

727

:

And I think a lot of young

people are really missing that.

728

:

They have been.

729

:

Their parents at least buy into the

quality time thing so they take the the

730

:

family trips and they take the family

photos and it's everything looks really

731

:

pretty but inside they don't have the

the little moments that added up give

732

:

some guidance and so then they rely on

their peers but it's kind of like Young

733

:

people leading young people sometimes

can feel like the blind leading the

734

:

blind, because nobody knows more.

735

:

Nobody knows more.

736

:

And then they go on social

media, which is even scarier.

737

:

But your parents love you and they have

wisdom, you know, of several decades

738

:

over your current life experience.

739

:

And if they're not able to share that

with the kids, I think it's so easy

740

:

for the kids to be swayed by what's

going on in society that in most

741

:

of it is not very helpful to them.

742

:

Yeah.

743

:

If I could.

744

:

Maybe use that to highlight the

negative side that you try to avoid too.

745

:

So we've been talking, and

I love it, focusing on the

746

:

positives of homeschooling.

747

:

Let's dive in.

748

:

There's a negative that you avoid too.

749

:

So there, in my view, it's like the,

you know, you talk about separation

750

:

of, of government and money.

751

:

It's, in this case, it's separation

of the government and school.

752

:

Right.

753

:

Education.

754

:

And it's like indoctrination, right?

755

:

So, so not only are they not

teaching about how money is, And

756

:

we, like, we bought games to teach

money when the kids were young

757

:

and that's not surprising, right?

758

:

Um, so it's, you're, you're lacking that,

but they're also picking up other things.

759

:

There could be an agenda

from the, the teacher.

760

:

There can be an agenda that comes

down as part of the, the curricula.

761

:

There could be, there's a lot of things

that you can avoid that when you, when

762

:

you don't homeschool, you're, you're

basically saying, I trust somebody else.

763

:

I'm going to trust that they're

going to guide my kids correctly.

764

:

I'm going to trust that

they're going to teach them.

765

:

The right way of looking at

history, the right way of looking

766

:

at fill in the blank type of thing.

767

:

And so it's the flip side of you get to

do all the positive things, you also get

768

:

to avoid some of the things where you're

relying on trust on someone else to do it.

769

:

Yeah, I mean a key aspect of, of

government schooling is, is to get

770

:

children To respect, you know, uh,

respect authority and be a be a

771

:

quote unquote functioning member of

society that doesn't ask questions.

772

:

That's just willing to go

along with what's best for the

773

:

country, so to speak, right?

774

:

It's like a social score, right?

775

:

Yeah, that's like that.

776

:

That is one of the reasons why you see

these these state school systems got

777

:

built out in the first place, right?

778

:

Was like, how do we take These

millions of people, um, and

779

:

have them all work together for

the best for the state, right?

780

:

Turn them into a

productive economic asset.

781

:

Yeah, because we talk about, we talk

about incentives all the time, right?

782

:

And Bitcoin and, and it's the

same, same situation here is, is

783

:

what are, what are the incentives?

784

:

Are the incentives flawed?

785

:

Are they broken?

786

:

Uh, or do they make sense, right?

787

:

And if you, if you talk about parents

with their children, I mean, they have the

788

:

strongest incentive alignment possible.

789

:

Like you want your kids to be the

best they can possibly be, um, and

790

:

ultimately it goes all the way to

the point of you're going to be old

791

:

at some point and then they're going

to be taking care of you, right?

792

:

So you have massive skin in the game.

793

:

While if you look at school systems,

what are their incentives, right?

794

:

Their incentives are no

one acts out of line.

795

:

You want everyone to be, you know,

quote unquote, functionally members of

796

:

society that don't cause disruptions

that are just productive economic units.

797

:

Yeah.

798

:

Incentives.

799

:

I agree.

800

:

Yeah.

801

:

Yeah.

802

:

I mean, in the traditional school

system, the goal is to basically

803

:

keep people occupied because you get

paid for every day that the student

804

:

is in the school rather than Yeah.

805

:

That's the incentive.

806

:

Yeah.

807

:

So, so I have.

808

:

A follow up question to that, because I

was actually going to go in that route,

809

:

uh, before you brought it up, Scott.

810

:

And so the follow up question is, as

Bitcoiners, obviously, I think, in

811

:

general, we self select for people

that are contrarian, that go against

812

:

authority, that think outside the box.

813

:

We value that as a very positive trait.

814

:

Um, now, if most children aren't that,

And I actually saw it when I was raised

815

:

like up until, uh, I mean, 2008 was a big,

you know, curtain draw for me that A lot

816

:

of what we were taught was bullshit and,

you know, there aren't really adults in

817

:

the room that know what they're talking

about and, and that, you know, society

818

:

is like this massive house of cards that

we all pretend is not a house of cards.

819

:

But up until that point,

I was very indoctrinated.

820

:

You know, I was very rah rah America.

821

:

Um, I told my mom at one

point I want to join the army.

822

:

She told me essentially to go fuck myself.

823

:

Um, did you know I was

in the army by the way?

824

:

I did not know that.

825

:

Um, so anyway, my question was, so

I kind of came to it myself after

826

:

most of my government schooling, but

my question is a child that Isn't

827

:

subservient in that way, right?

828

:

Isn't indoctrinated.

829

:

Are there, have you no,

obviously we know the positive

830

:

points that can come from that.

831

:

I, I, I wonder, do you notice like

negative points where someone of that

832

:

age is like thinking for themselves

maybe a little bit too much?

833

:

Like, I don't know, like, is that,

do you, does that make sense?

834

:

Do you want to, do you want to go first?

835

:

Yeah.

836

:

Why don't you go first?

837

:

I can only speak to my own four kids

and I'm actually really happy that.

838

:

They think outside the box.

839

:

They do because when they graduated high

school, I sent them overseas I wanted

840

:

them to get out of the homeschooling

community the Christian community and I

841

:

told them the world is very big and this

is a very tiny part of it and you need to

842

:

go see and They each came back and said

we don't like what we saw because it's

843

:

really sad, you know I think Brianna was

sent to London during COVID and she, you

844

:

know, in the UK, the drinking age is 18.

845

:

Right.

846

:

Right.

847

:

And so these are pre freshman

kids, they're mostly 18,

848

:

they're so excited, right?

849

:

They get to the airport,

they get to the hotel.

850

:

I mean, they're When you say they,

was she part of a larger group?

851

:

She was part of an educational group.

852

:

She got there and everybody split.

853

:

Everybody went to the pub.

854

:

Right.

855

:

To get drunk.

856

:

And she called us and I said,

What are you doing calling us?

857

:

This is your first night there.

858

:

Aren't you supposed to be hanging

out with your new friends?

859

:

And she goes, Everybody's gone.

860

:

What?

861

:

So then it was a whole semester of

people throwing up in the hallway,

862

:

people throwing up at the top, you

know, and she She stood her ground.

863

:

She was like, I don't I

don't need to do that.

864

:

I can go on have a good time

and I don't need to do that.

865

:

So she thought outside the box and I

was really proud of her for doing that.

866

:

And Alea went to Hawaii and her group,

they didn't have access to pubs and

867

:

bars because she was in a work study

program, but there were a lot of

868

:

kids who showed up to the program

and go, thank God we left our family.

869

:

It's just, Oh, I can't stand them.

870

:

And I'm so happy I'm away.

871

:

And then I was like,

why would you say that?

872

:

I tell my mom everything.

873

:

And they're like, why would

you tell your mom everything?

874

:

And she goes, because we've always

just told each other everything.

875

:

And so she, they just

thought so, so differently.

876

:

There was such a separation

of the kids from their family.

877

:

And I'm, I'm guessing it's because

They, they've been separated.

878

:

So the kids they went on the trips

with weren't all homeschooled kids?

879

:

None of them were.

880

:

Oh, okay.

881

:

Just, just my kids.

882

:

That was kind of their first exposure

without us there to, to, to guide them.

883

:

Talia wanted to get them exposure out

and she said, let's go see the world,

884

:

we'll come, we'll find a program.

885

:

And we were expecting them to go

and, wow, I got to see all these.

886

:

Great places and meet new people

and they kind of came back with

887

:

what Tali was just describing was,

wow, these people, they're animals.

888

:

Well, it wasn't that they were

animals, it's just that they just

889

:

didn't There was such a separation

between them and the and their family.

890

:

Yeah.

891

:

Because they've been, they, they go to

school and they're just separate, right?

892

:

Um, and, and another thing I wanted

to say is there's that, is it

893

:

okay if I talk about woke stuff?

894

:

Yeah.

895

:

Oh, okay.

896

:

Openly.

897

:

You can talk about whatever you want.

898

:

So, my grandmother asked me

once how I didn't get kicked off

899

:

the radio for cursing so much.

900

:

Oh, okay.

901

:

This is the, the great

beyond of podcasting.

902

:

We can talk about whatever

you want on the hinterland.

903

:

Because that's, that's, that's one of

the things that That, um, that really

904

:

just blew my mind was this huge,

huge push for the, the woke agenda,

905

:

even in these overseas programs.

906

:

And I just remember Brianna landing

in London and the first class she

907

:

was in, her professor called her out

and said, what do you think about

908

:

transitioning, gender transition?

909

:

Well, first class and compare that

to a child growing into an adult.

910

:

And Brianna said, well, one is a natural

process and one is an unnatural process.

911

:

And that was all she said.

912

:

And later on that program, she was

called out on that by another student

913

:

who was a gender fluid person.

914

:

Right.

915

:

And literally the entire program

was set down and the one person

916

:

in the middle telling everybody

how they had microaggression.

917

:

What is the verb for that?

918

:

Microaggressed.

919

:

I don't even know what it is.

920

:

She was offended by everything.

921

:

Right.

922

:

Microaggression.

923

:

She was personally attacked by everything.

924

:

And so Brianna just felt like I

can't even discuss it intelligently.

925

:

I can't just, I can't talk

freely about how I feel.

926

:

That's interesting.

927

:

It was, she completely shut down

because she said, What is the point?

928

:

Nobody's going to listen to me.

929

:

Because there is only one right answer.

930

:

And it was the same thing for

my other kids in other programs.

931

:

It was this huge push, like gender

is fluid, it doesn't, the biological

932

:

fact is not, is not a fact, and

it was a work study program.

933

:

Right, it's conformity

over open discussion.

934

:

Yes.

935

:

Yes.

936

:

So like when, when you and

Slim were doing your talk.

937

:

And somebody was pushing back

saying, where's the proof?

938

:

Where's the proof, right?

939

:

It's a very, my impression.

940

:

I mean, I'm only a couple of

years trying to learn this stuff,

941

:

but my impression is it's, it's

show me, like, I don't trust you.

942

:

Show me, verify, and no

one was offended by it.

943

:

It wasn't like you stood up and said,

we're not going to do that here.

944

:

And it was there.

945

:

And what Tolly's describing is.

946

:

So when you're, when you're

homeschooling, you're, you're asking

947

:

the kids to think, what is your opinion?

948

:

I want you to do this.

949

:

You're going to, you actually have to.

950

:

So in their minds, that's

just the way that things are.

951

:

You think for yourself.

952

:

And you asked me a question,

I tell you, our, our daughter

953

:

goes out and she gets shut down.

954

:

And now the program is saying.

955

:

You can't talk, right?

956

:

It's, it's like the opposite of,

uh, or if you, if you oppose what

957

:

we tell you, then you are a bigot.

958

:

That's not even opposition.

959

:

It's if you ask the question, you're

labeled if you have a yes, if or

960

:

if you say dare you, you believe.

961

:

So, I was actually very proud that,

that our kids thought outside the

962

:

system and thought outside the

box and stood their ground, but

963

:

they paid a price for it, right?

964

:

So.

965

:

That's interesting.

966

:

Do you feel like, one of the things

that I experienced, I went through

967

:

the traditional education system, and

I, I actually had a, a very similar

968

:

relationship with my parents, or I have

a very similar relationship and growing

969

:

up to the one that it sounds like

you have with your children, where it

970

:

was, even though I spent a lot of time

in the traditional education system,

971

:

that kind of thinking and the, the

discipline involved was something that my

972

:

parents really heavily instilled in me.

973

:

And I feel like one of the things that

I benefited from kind of, uh, perversely

974

:

or maybe, um, despite it was that it kind

of hardened me to being in situations

975

:

with support from my parents where I was

surrounded by people who were very shut

976

:

down and were sort of forced to conform.

977

:

And I had the support from my parents

to like, you, you have to, it's on you

978

:

to kind of, to think outside the box and

to really kind of confront people with

979

:

that in a way where they can understand

how you're trying to communicate.

980

:

Anyway, this is a long winded way

of asking, do you feel like Your,

981

:

those experiences were ultimately

positive for your children.

982

:

Do you feel like they came through

those sort of having that experience

983

:

and having a better sense of how

they can navigate those situations?

984

:

The same way that maybe I did,

I think we're still in it.

985

:

I think she's in that in the

example where we're walking through,

986

:

she's still dealing with that.

987

:

And I mean, she's moving on.

988

:

She's, she's doing other, other

things, but I mean, that's her,

989

:

her first experience away from it.

990

:

It really shook her.

991

:

She, she really was, was shaken by that.

992

:

So I don't think you, you stop learning.

993

:

In the same way, if you're an adult

and you have a bad relationship or

994

:

something else happens, it, you're

not, you're not over it instantly.

995

:

And I think, so for me, I'm really

proud of the way they, they went

996

:

through those, but I, they're not back

to where they were before they went.

997

:

It, it impacted who they, who

they are and how they, they think.

998

:

And I wish I could say, yeah,

they're all a hundred percent

999

:

and they're just happy again.

:

00:50:18,611 --> 00:50:21,791

But it was almost like you went from I

don't want to say it wasn't protected,

:

00:50:21,881 --> 00:50:25,151

but he went from an environment where

they thought one way about the world

:

00:50:25,151 --> 00:50:29,251

and then they saw that the world wasn't,

that's not the way the world really was.

:

00:50:29,791 --> 00:50:32,441

And so there's all types of emotional

things that they went through.

:

00:50:32,491 --> 00:50:35,561

I think they're, they're just,

that's just their journey.

:

00:50:35,561 --> 00:50:37,961

That's what we all, when we go

through a different age, went

:

00:50:37,961 --> 00:50:39,131

through whatever we went through.

:

00:50:39,451 --> 00:50:43,301

And so, so I'm really proud of them,

but I don't think they're, it's over.

:

00:50:44,021 --> 00:50:44,321

Yeah.

:

00:50:44,321 --> 00:50:46,431

And you said, are they better for it?

:

00:50:46,451 --> 00:50:49,821

I think they, all three of them

would say, yes, we are better for it

:

00:50:49,851 --> 00:50:54,891

because we learned what we believe

aside from apart from the family,

:

00:50:54,891 --> 00:50:58,201

because before it was always, you

know, what mom and dad thought.

:

00:50:58,626 --> 00:51:02,116

That was what they assumed they

thought they had to step away

:

00:51:02,116 --> 00:51:06,276

to separate themselves from us

and decide what they believe.

:

00:51:06,656 --> 00:51:09,686

So they now have a better

understanding of what they

:

00:51:09,686 --> 00:51:12,136

believe themselves, but the scars.

:

00:51:13,081 --> 00:51:16,081

Carry through and they are still

trying to work through that.

:

00:51:16,261 --> 00:51:17,851

And then what I really like too.

:

00:51:17,951 --> 00:51:20,841

It's actually kind of cool

in a way It's a little scary.

:

00:51:22,051 --> 00:51:28,621

So we have four and one of our our second

oldest has almost become like a Counselor

:

00:51:29,701 --> 00:51:34,111

they can help coach each other Yeah So

we've because we've developed how they

:

00:51:34,121 --> 00:51:37,781

should treat each other with respect and

take responsibility all the things we

:

00:51:37,781 --> 00:51:43,241

were just going through they're there for

each other and sometimes One might feel

:

00:51:43,241 --> 00:51:47,071

more comfortable opening up to one of

their siblings and working through things.

:

00:51:47,661 --> 00:51:51,331

As a parent, I find that really hard

because I want to be the one that Is

:

00:51:51,331 --> 00:51:56,141

there to do whatever I want to be the one

that helps, but, um, we've developed a,

:

00:51:56,251 --> 00:51:59,721

within the family unit, a support system

because they support each other too.

:

00:51:59,941 --> 00:52:03,901

So it's, um, I think that's, it's a

side note, but it's, I found that it's,

:

00:52:03,911 --> 00:52:05,411

it's a result of all those other things.

:

00:52:05,411 --> 00:52:08,041

They now appreciate

what they went through.

:

00:52:08,101 --> 00:52:11,471

They have a perspective on it and

now they can relate to each other.

:

00:52:11,601 --> 00:52:13,041

There's a big corner, Jimmy Song.

:

00:52:13,041 --> 00:52:14,421

I think he has six children.

:

00:52:14,911 --> 00:52:17,731

He said after the third one, they

just start raising themselves.

:

00:52:19,866 --> 00:52:21,326

Self perpetuating algorithms.

:

00:52:22,156 --> 00:52:24,316

He's like, the first three are the

most difficult, and then after that

:

00:52:24,316 --> 00:52:25,586

Yeah, once you're in his own defense.

:

00:52:25,636 --> 00:52:26,016

Yeah.

:

00:52:27,266 --> 00:52:32,456

Um, I mean, this is a little bit

tangential, I think, but, uh, I

:

00:52:32,456 --> 00:52:35,666

wonder if that is, and obviously me

and Pete don't have any children.

:

00:52:36,361 --> 00:52:40,341

So we're just completely diving

in here, um, and trying to

:

00:52:40,341 --> 00:52:41,881

learn from, from you guys.

:

00:52:42,361 --> 00:52:47,771

Um, I feel like maybe one of the challenge

points for some people who choose to do

:

00:52:47,771 --> 00:52:52,951

homeschooling is that they would rather

indoctrinate their kids on what they

:

00:52:52,951 --> 00:52:58,491

believe rather than Empowering them

to be independent critical thinkers.

:

00:52:59,101 --> 00:53:03,791

Uh, I mean, I, I assume you guys

know a lot of other families that

:

00:53:03,791 --> 00:53:04,981

have chose to do homeschooling.

:

00:53:04,991 --> 00:53:09,481

Have you seen that as a pain point

for some families that like, their

:

00:53:09,481 --> 00:53:12,971

main goal of, or, or not their

main, not even intentionally, right?

:

00:53:12,971 --> 00:53:15,871

It's just like, they're just

trying to create mini me's rather

:

00:53:15,881 --> 00:53:17,441

than like new independent people.

:

00:53:18,651 --> 00:53:21,641

Yeah, we have seen, we have

seen families like that.

:

00:53:22,171 --> 00:53:26,811

I think the amazing thing about

children is that they pick up

:

00:53:26,811 --> 00:53:28,191

things that are not taught to them.

:

00:53:28,411 --> 00:53:28,711

Right.

:

00:53:29,231 --> 00:53:31,961

And they will, unless they've

been locked in a closet, which I

:

00:53:31,971 --> 00:53:33,251

don't know anybody who does that.

:

00:53:34,311 --> 00:53:37,871

Home schoolers are out there all

the time, interacting, interacting.

:

00:53:38,241 --> 00:53:46,286

So, even kids who are raised It's very,

very strict and literally with one option,

:

00:53:46,426 --> 00:53:50,816

you know, in their beliefs because of

the, the family beliefs, they are still

:

00:53:50,826 --> 00:53:54,966

constantly being exposed to other kids

and other families because they're

:

00:53:54,976 --> 00:53:59,796

out there and they have the freedom to

interact and, and talk and ask questions.

:

00:54:00,361 --> 00:54:02,041

And really question each other even.

:

00:54:02,421 --> 00:54:06,611

So I'm not too too worried about

that unless the families just

:

00:54:06,631 --> 00:54:10,171

only stay within their family or

they have a circle of friends who

:

00:54:10,171 --> 00:54:11,511

believe exactly the same thing.

:

00:54:11,851 --> 00:54:13,741

I don't think there's any way

that the kids are not going to

:

00:54:13,751 --> 00:54:15,331

be exposed to other beliefs.

:

00:54:15,671 --> 00:54:19,031

And eventually, as a person

matured, you can't help but

:

00:54:19,361 --> 00:54:20,811

Try to form your own identity.

:

00:54:20,841 --> 00:54:22,371

That's just a natural process.

:

00:54:22,731 --> 00:54:26,681

So, would you agree with me that if, if

there were like new parents listening

:

00:54:26,681 --> 00:54:32,391

right now, that, that a key fundamental

of, of going this route is that You are

:

00:54:32,391 --> 00:54:37,641

trying to empower the child to make their

own decisions rather than yeah, yeah,

:

00:54:37,641 --> 00:54:42,571

critical thinking for sure and I probably

tell my kids way too much because I am

:

00:54:42,601 --> 00:54:47,851

always explaining to them why I have come

to a conclusion or why I have come to

:

00:54:47,851 --> 00:54:51,431

a decision if I make them do anything,

I give them like a half an hour lecture

:

00:54:51,441 --> 00:54:53,191

on why I'm making them do something.

:

00:54:53,511 --> 00:54:56,321

To the point where they will look at

me like, mom, okay, that's enough.

:

00:54:56,321 --> 00:54:57,801

We just tell us we need to do it.

:

00:54:58,401 --> 00:55:03,701

But I feel that if I explain to them my

thinking process, then they know how I.

:

00:55:04,111 --> 00:55:07,181

At least the steps, mental steps

that I took to arrive there.

:

00:55:07,231 --> 00:55:10,941

And they can maybe emulate that in their

own mind and make their own decisions.

:

00:55:11,371 --> 00:55:15,071

And if you meet our kids, I don't think

you got to talk to, um, the two that came

:

00:55:15,081 --> 00:55:19,251

the other time, but if you meet them and

talk to them, you can see very quickly

:

00:55:19,251 --> 00:55:23,351

that they are very, very different people

and very different people from us even.

:

00:55:23,786 --> 00:55:27,116

And we actually take pride in that, right?

:

00:55:27,116 --> 00:55:31,916

I don't think even if we had set out to

make mini me's, I don't, I just don't

:

00:55:31,926 --> 00:55:34,516

think that's the way that we were built.

:

00:55:34,666 --> 00:55:39,486

I just don't think you could humanity

or you know, like, I just don't think

:

00:55:39,486 --> 00:55:44,836

if you said, you know, my kid's going

to be this way and that's it, good luck.

:

00:55:44,916 --> 00:55:45,386

I don't know.

:

00:55:45,386 --> 00:55:49,176

I just don't, I, there's certain

things that I, I had hoped that they

:

00:55:49,176 --> 00:55:51,906

would do, like I had gone into service

and I had hoped that at least one of

:

00:55:51,906 --> 00:55:55,786

them, but I don't think any of them

will, and you could fill, you might.

:

00:55:56,151 --> 00:55:59,091

Someone might be in a different

journey with their, their religious.

:

00:55:59,476 --> 00:56:00,316

Uh, status.

:

00:56:00,316 --> 00:56:01,536

It could be the academic.

:

00:56:01,536 --> 00:56:05,576

It could be, um, I don't wanna get too

personal on some of the other things

:

00:56:05,576 --> 00:56:09,366

going on with the relationships and

whatnot, but they're not doing what

:

00:56:09,366 --> 00:56:10,986

we would want them what we would do.

:

00:56:11,026 --> 00:56:11,986

They're not enemies.

:

00:56:12,186 --> 00:56:15,676

And I just, I just don't even

know if we had tried to do that.

:

00:56:15,706 --> 00:56:15,986

I.

:

00:56:16,056 --> 00:56:20,166

I don't see how anybody

could, could really do that.

:

00:56:20,166 --> 00:56:20,626

I just.

:

00:56:21,446 --> 00:56:27,646

That's interesting because my experience,

I've seen a lot of, and not, uh,

:

00:56:28,536 --> 00:56:30,546

not homeschooling specific, right?

:

00:56:30,556 --> 00:56:33,986

Just seeing a lot of parents that want

their kids to be exactly like them.

:

00:56:34,156 --> 00:56:34,696

Yeah.

:

00:56:34,816 --> 00:56:36,256

And like, this is the way you name names.

:

00:56:36,296 --> 00:56:37,066

I want to know who you're talking about.

:

00:56:38,726 --> 00:56:39,766

Um, yeah.

:

00:56:40,116 --> 00:56:41,286

Are they successful?

:

00:56:41,686 --> 00:56:41,876

Yeah.

:

00:56:41,876 --> 00:56:42,306

Do they do it?

:

00:56:42,476 --> 00:56:42,816

Who?

:

00:56:43,096 --> 00:56:44,826

The people you know.

:

00:56:45,506 --> 00:56:47,446

Like, are they, are they

successfully creating mini me's?

:

00:56:47,446 --> 00:56:47,836

Yeah.

:

00:56:47,836 --> 00:56:47,868

Yeah.

:

00:56:47,868 --> 00:56:47,901

Yeah.

:

00:56:48,331 --> 00:56:54,051

I mean, to a degree, I, I, I haven't

seen, you know, uh, I haven't followed

:

00:56:54,061 --> 00:56:59,491

up with the case studies to see like

how the kids have turned out, but, uh,

:

00:57:00,161 --> 00:57:04,381

I mean, you see it in like, you see it

in state school a lot, uh, like, uh,

:

00:57:05,021 --> 00:57:08,201

my experience going through school or

whatever, where the kids, you know, I'm

:

00:57:08,211 --> 00:57:13,676

like 14 years old, 15 years old, And like

the opinions and thought processes and

:

00:57:13,676 --> 00:57:19,316

perspectives of the child are essentially

just a direct rip of the parent and

:

00:57:19,316 --> 00:57:22,856

the kid doesn't know why he thinks

that or why that's the absolute truth.

:

00:57:22,866 --> 00:57:28,246

They just, it just, you know, uh,

drilled into them from a young age.

:

00:57:28,256 --> 00:57:33,006

And I just assume, I assume with

homeschooling that can be to the

:

00:57:33,386 --> 00:57:39,626

even worse extreme just because they

have full, um, right there, they

:

00:57:39,626 --> 00:57:41,186

have the full attention of the child.

:

00:57:41,216 --> 00:57:42,456

They don't have the other.

:

00:57:42,886 --> 00:57:47,746

Necessary other aspects and maybe

even, you know, maybe you don't see

:

00:57:47,746 --> 00:57:54,921

the worst versions of that because

those are the ones that I mean, you

:

00:57:54,921 --> 00:57:58,361

made the joke, which is like that

stereotype of like the negative

:

00:57:58,361 --> 00:58:01,541

homeschooling environment where Harry

Potter's locked in his cupboard, right?

:

00:58:01,571 --> 00:58:05,671

Where like he can't see anybody, but a

less extreme version of that where they

:

00:58:05,671 --> 00:58:08,681

aren't really exposed to other opinions.

:

00:58:08,681 --> 00:58:13,491

They aren't, you know, necessarily, you

know, in public and get to choose, you

:

00:58:13,491 --> 00:58:15,271

know, their route or where they're going.

:

00:58:16,101 --> 00:58:17,981

There's probably extreme cases of that.

:

00:58:18,246 --> 00:58:21,116

I think there has to be, but I also think,

you know, to this thing you said earlier,

:

00:58:21,146 --> 00:58:22,676

that children are incredibly adaptable.

:

00:58:22,676 --> 00:58:24,666

I feel like it's like, it's

almost like trying to like, you

:

00:58:24,666 --> 00:58:26,146

know, cup water in your hands.

:

00:58:26,146 --> 00:58:29,516

It's like people will find, and I

think especially as they're growing

:

00:58:29,516 --> 00:58:32,296

up, people find access to information.

:

00:58:32,831 --> 00:58:35,231

Even when you try to prevent

them from getting access to it.

:

00:58:35,231 --> 00:58:38,041

And so I feel like we're in a lot of

situations, the more pressure that

:

00:58:38,281 --> 00:58:40,761

parents try to put on their children to

be a certain way, like even if they're

:

00:58:40,761 --> 00:58:43,151

homeschooled, you know, the Harry

Potter analogy, like they're going to,

:

00:58:43,221 --> 00:58:45,181

they're going to look up weird shit

on their phone and they're going to

:

00:58:45,181 --> 00:58:46,481

be like, you know, what is this thing?

:

00:58:46,591 --> 00:58:47,761

How do I get access to it?

:

00:58:47,771 --> 00:58:48,541

And they're going to seek it out.

:

00:58:48,551 --> 00:58:52,881

Well, that's a whole different element,

which, you know, Not a parent yet, but

:

00:58:52,991 --> 00:58:59,581

scares the shit out of me, which is like

the balance of internet Social media like

:

00:58:59,581 --> 00:59:05,391

not wanting a kid that you know It's not a

like I would like my kid to be fluent with

:

00:59:05,391 --> 00:59:12,261

computers and technology and but also,

you know Social networks are predatory by

:

00:59:12,261 --> 00:59:18,081

design You need to talk to them And you

need to talk to them and you need to talk

:

00:59:18,081 --> 00:59:20,771

to them and you need to talk to them to

talk to them and you need to talk to them.

:

00:59:20,771 --> 00:59:22,168

Well then you, and then

you need to trust them.

:

00:59:22,168 --> 00:59:24,011

And then you need to trust them.

:

00:59:24,011 --> 00:59:29,081

They're going to make their own

mistakes and you're just, one

:

00:59:29,081 --> 00:59:30,161

thing is a hundred percent sure.

:

00:59:30,161 --> 00:59:32,131

At some point you're not going

to be next to them when they have

:

00:59:32,131 --> 00:59:33,451

to make a decision on something.

:

00:59:33,551 --> 00:59:33,861

Right.

:

00:59:33,981 --> 00:59:39,161

So my point of view is you do your

best to prepare them on how to,

:

00:59:39,561 --> 00:59:42,091

again, going back to the frameworks,

how to think about things.

:

00:59:42,991 --> 00:59:44,921

And then at some point you're

going to, you're going to

:

00:59:44,931 --> 00:59:46,051

have to take a leap of faith.

:

00:59:46,706 --> 00:59:53,316

And, and trust them to take action

on their own and, and I mean, a

:

00:59:53,316 --> 00:59:54,816

kid learns to walk by falling down.

:

00:59:54,816 --> 00:59:58,896

They, you, you ride a bike, you fall

down, there's no way you can teach them

:

00:59:58,896 --> 01:00:03,166

a hundred percent of the things to,

you know, they're going to be exposed

:

01:00:03,166 --> 01:00:06,936

to whatever on social media or it's

pornography or whatever it is that

:

01:00:07,226 --> 01:00:12,006

violence, whatever it might be, drugs, at

some point they're going to have to make

:

01:00:12,006 --> 01:00:13,446

their own decision when you're not there.

:

01:00:13,716 --> 01:00:17,006

And so you're, I think the best thing

you can do is you try to talk and talk

:

01:00:17,006 --> 01:00:22,196

and talk and prepare them, let them know

you're They, you're there if they ever

:

01:00:22,196 --> 01:00:27,696

need you, no matter what, it's, you know,

just whatever happens we're here for you.

:

01:00:28,816 --> 01:00:32,116

But at some point you have to,

you're going to have to let go.

:

01:00:32,206 --> 01:00:35,706

And I just don't see how anybody could

really keep that level of control

:

01:00:35,716 --> 01:00:36,976

that you were, you're describing.

:

01:00:36,996 --> 01:00:41,966

I, at least I personally don't

see how, how you could do that.

:

01:00:41,966 --> 01:00:44,596

I think you're, there's too many

ways of getting other information.

:

01:00:45,491 --> 01:00:47,931

And if you have more than one

kid, you can't physically be

:

01:00:47,931 --> 01:00:49,131

with them all the time anyway.

:

01:00:49,241 --> 01:00:53,681

So, um, I want to add something

to that also before you trust

:

01:00:53,681 --> 01:00:55,351

them, you talk to them first.

:

01:00:55,361 --> 01:01:01,841

So for example, when, when my kids

were, my oldest was, uh, I don't

:

01:01:01,841 --> 01:01:03,371

know, like five or six or whatever.

:

01:01:03,851 --> 01:01:07,081

And we were with a family friend

and she said, have you talked

:

01:01:07,081 --> 01:01:09,416

to You're a child about sex.

:

01:01:09,436 --> 01:01:11,646

And I said, why would I

talk to her about sex?

:

01:01:11,646 --> 01:01:12,586

She's five or six.

:

01:01:13,046 --> 01:01:15,026

And she said, she knows nothing right now.

:

01:01:15,296 --> 01:01:19,306

So you'd be the first to plant an

idea in her mind that it is sacred.

:

01:01:19,316 --> 01:01:20,226

It's a sacred act.

:

01:01:20,226 --> 01:01:22,326

It's not something you throw around.

:

01:01:22,946 --> 01:01:23,616

And I thought.

:

01:01:24,106 --> 01:01:29,386

Ew, that's weird because I don't want to

talk about that, but I ultimately did.

:

01:01:29,876 --> 01:01:33,386

And it was, is, there's a series of

books that actually talk about that

:

01:01:33,386 --> 01:01:36,816

subject in a very general, general way.

:

01:01:36,816 --> 01:01:40,256

So you're not, you know, yeah,

nothing weird, like too crazy,

:

01:01:40,256 --> 01:01:42,726

but you start planting seeds.

:

01:01:42,876 --> 01:01:44,626

You just got to start planting seeds.

:

01:01:44,626 --> 01:01:48,646

And so if you plant seeds when they're

five, six, and you continue to talk about

:

01:01:48,646 --> 01:01:55,726

how important it is to value your, your

body and, um, and take relationships and

:

01:01:55,736 --> 01:01:59,246

friendships seriously, then by the time

they, their hormones kick in, they're

:

01:01:59,246 --> 01:02:03,136

going into puberty, they already have

heard that you don't even have to say it.

:

01:02:03,136 --> 01:02:04,044

Yeah.

:

01:02:04,044 --> 01:02:08,581

So when Like I said, when my friend

mentioned that to me, I was like,

:

01:02:08,581 --> 01:02:11,281

that is the weirdest wackiest,

why would I want to go there?

:

01:02:11,691 --> 01:02:13,151

But I'm really glad that I did.

:

01:02:13,461 --> 01:02:15,011

And I did it with my first three.

:

01:02:15,041 --> 01:02:18,191

And then the fourth one, when he was old

enough, I said, okay, let's sit down.

:

01:02:18,191 --> 01:02:20,251

He goes, You don't need

to tell me anything.

:

01:02:20,251 --> 01:02:21,151

I already know everything.

:

01:02:21,191 --> 01:02:22,526

And I said What?

:

01:02:22,816 --> 01:02:27,066

And he just recited, he

recited the stuff to me.

:

01:02:27,066 --> 01:02:28,476

I'm like, okay, I guess you got it.

:

01:02:28,476 --> 01:02:28,946

Never mind.

:

01:02:29,366 --> 01:02:31,086

So, so Matt, did we answer

your question though?

:

01:02:31,086 --> 01:02:32,026

I don't know if we did.

:

01:02:32,146 --> 01:02:33,976

I think you did.

:

01:02:35,506 --> 01:02:36,106

I have a question.

:

01:02:36,456 --> 01:02:39,766

You mentioned something interesting,

which is that you had hoped that one of

:

01:02:39,766 --> 01:02:40,956

your children would go into the service.

:

01:02:40,966 --> 01:02:43,506

And I think a lot of people think,

we've been talking about how in the

:

01:02:43,506 --> 01:02:47,286

traditional education system, it is,

you know, really the system that's

:

01:02:47,286 --> 01:02:52,431

designed to kind of, um, You know, turn

people into productive units of society.

:

01:02:52,431 --> 01:02:56,581

And I think a lot of people would view

military service in kind of a similar way.

:

01:02:56,581 --> 01:02:59,431

Potentially even more than more so.

:

01:02:59,441 --> 01:02:59,821

Yeah.

:

01:02:59,821 --> 01:03:00,081

Yeah.

:

01:03:00,131 --> 01:03:03,741

So I'm curious where that comes from

and sort of how, how you think about

:

01:03:04,121 --> 01:03:09,991

military service versus traditional

education and why one is preferable or

:

01:03:09,991 --> 01:03:11,881

ideal, you know, ideal versus another.

:

01:03:11,971 --> 01:03:13,031

And do you still believe that?

:

01:03:13,031 --> 01:03:14,221

Do you, do you still?

:

01:03:14,276 --> 01:03:17,826

I wish that at least one of

them went into the service.

:

01:03:18,856 --> 01:03:22,376

They're, at their ages around

now, it's, it's kind of done.

:

01:03:22,396 --> 01:03:24,336

I don't, they're not going

to, they're not going to go.

:

01:03:24,396 --> 01:03:30,936

Um, so to me, the, I didn't know what

I really wanted to do when I was 18.

:

01:03:30,986 --> 01:03:36,736

And for me, the, the service was an

opportunity where, where it kind of

:

01:03:36,736 --> 01:03:38,306

kept you, it had some boundaries.

:

01:03:39,086 --> 01:03:43,106

And the military, I think, is

really good about putting people

:

01:03:43,106 --> 01:03:44,476

through experiences together.

:

01:03:45,386 --> 01:03:48,196

You go, whether it's boot camp or

whatever, you, you go through tough times

:

01:03:48,196 --> 01:03:54,286

together, and then you, you bond, and you

learn about things, and you, you, there's

:

01:03:54,286 --> 01:03:56,926

just something different about that

experience, and if you don't know what you

:

01:03:56,926 --> 01:03:58,686

want to do, it can help with structure.

:

01:03:59,156 --> 01:04:04,446

And I, so for me personally, I, I

grew personally because of that.

:

01:04:05,366 --> 01:04:07,546

Because I, I was kind of otherwise lost.

:

01:04:07,546 --> 01:04:10,366

I didn't have a goal to be just a

doctor or a lawyer or some people know

:

01:04:10,366 --> 01:04:11,666

they want to be a pilot, whatever.

:

01:04:11,686 --> 01:04:12,446

I didn't have that.

:

01:04:13,256 --> 01:04:14,246

So for me, it does that.

:

01:04:14,326 --> 01:04:18,026

And, and honestly, I,

the, I didn't understand.

:

01:04:18,026 --> 01:04:21,266

I went through the public school

system growing up and we would

:

01:04:21,266 --> 01:04:24,976

do the Pledge Allegiance and we

learned history and whatever it was.

:

01:04:24,976 --> 01:04:30,661

And I, I just, you know, I thought the

whole world was the way it was here,

:

01:04:30,801 --> 01:04:36,251

and I didn't fully understand that

the freedoms we have, we have a lot

:

01:04:36,251 --> 01:04:39,591

of things wrong with the government,

it's definitely too big, there's a lot

:

01:04:39,591 --> 01:04:40,641

of things we can go down with that.

:

01:04:40,671 --> 01:04:44,831

On the other hand, we are really

blessed with a lot of things here.

:

01:04:44,961 --> 01:04:47,581

We do have the First Amendment, we have

the Second Amendment, we can talk about

:

01:04:47,581 --> 01:04:52,891

all the craziness that's going on, but

no society has ever been perfect, and I,

:

01:04:52,961 --> 01:04:59,121

and I strongly believe that, We have a

really good thing here, and someone has

:

01:04:59,121 --> 01:05:02,221

to, someone has to do the right thing.

:

01:05:02,301 --> 01:05:04,151

It's not, it's not, it's not free.

:

01:05:04,881 --> 01:05:07,671

And the idea of what service is

now, I look at like Congress and

:

01:05:07,671 --> 01:05:11,501

quote unquote service, and you got,

you know, inside trader Pelosi and

:

01:05:11,511 --> 01:05:12,811

whatever else is going on there.

:

01:05:12,811 --> 01:05:15,921

And I'm like, these people are just,

they're just, they're like a different,

:

01:05:15,931 --> 01:05:18,061

they're their little political class.

:

01:05:18,911 --> 01:05:20,121

That was not the intent.

:

01:05:20,331 --> 01:05:22,951

If you go back to, we're supposed

to have limited government, we're

:

01:05:22,951 --> 01:05:24,281

supposed to have our freedoms.

:

01:05:25,086 --> 01:05:29,536

Like, those things to me are still really

valuable, and I think, yeah, we have a

:

01:05:29,536 --> 01:05:34,096

lot of flaws and a lot of bad things going

on right now, but the idea of service and

:

01:05:34,106 --> 01:05:38,756

serving that ideal in the Constitution,

I still think, yeah, I, I, I do strong,

:

01:05:38,796 --> 01:05:44,451

I have a lot of strong feelings with

that, and I get very upset when I see

:

01:05:44,451 --> 01:05:47,761

people just flaunting it and tearing

it down and trying to rewrite history.

:

01:05:48,331 --> 01:05:50,071

I'm like, you, you're an idiot.

:

01:05:50,231 --> 01:05:52,121

You have no idea what

you're talking about.

:

01:05:52,551 --> 01:05:57,561

If you actually experienced what you think

you're describing, you would hate it.

:

01:05:58,211 --> 01:06:05,291

And um, so I guess, um, I, I

think military services is not for

:

01:06:05,301 --> 01:06:10,211

everyone, but I do think that most

of the people in the service, their

:

01:06:10,221 --> 01:06:11,271

hearts are in the right place.

:

01:06:11,291 --> 01:06:12,811

They're serving for the right reasons.

:

01:06:13,671 --> 01:06:16,371

Um, you have, you have

soldiers on food stamps, right?

:

01:06:16,371 --> 01:06:19,341

And you compare that to the people

getting rich and quote unquote

:

01:06:19,341 --> 01:06:20,901

serving in political office.

:

01:06:21,751 --> 01:06:26,831

So, um, so I still, I still feel

very strongly about the, the, the

:

01:06:26,831 --> 01:06:31,741

military, but as far as our kids,

I have to respect the fact that

:

01:06:31,741 --> 01:06:33,290

that's not, that's not their thing.

:

01:06:33,290 --> 01:06:35,873

They don't want to, there

is a dichotomy there, right?

:

01:06:35,873 --> 01:06:41,321

Like homeschooling versus modern

day military service, I would say.

:

01:06:41,321 --> 01:06:45,261

I mean, I, I, when you, when,

when you're, when you were in

:

01:06:45,261 --> 01:06:46,711

the military, you signed an oath.

:

01:06:47,261 --> 01:06:50,381

You swore an oath to the constitution

to uphold the constitution.

:

01:06:50,831 --> 01:06:56,381

You didn't swear an oath to corrupt

politicians, but my yes, but in

:

01:06:56,381 --> 01:06:59,791

practice, this is Scott's first time

on a podcast, so we need to keep

:

01:06:59,791 --> 01:07:01,281

reminding him to put the mic up.

:

01:07:01,731 --> 01:07:07,041

Um, but in practice, in, in practice

there, you're, you're basically a

:

01:07:07,041 --> 01:07:09,311

pawn for the corrupt political class.

:

01:07:09,381 --> 01:07:09,851

Right.

:

01:07:10,171 --> 01:07:10,471

Right.

:

01:07:11,281 --> 01:07:11,511

Right.

:

01:07:11,511 --> 01:07:13,301

And then, and that was one of

the things I had a hard time.

:

01:07:14,286 --> 01:07:18,316

Reading like the first, like when I, uh,

the Bitcoin standard, when you talk about

:

01:07:18,316 --> 01:07:24,596

how you can have endless wars because of

the money system, it, I had to, it took

:

01:07:24,596 --> 01:07:28,566

me a while to really think on, on that

because I'm like, Oh, wait a minute.

:

01:07:28,566 --> 01:07:32,136

So those in service, are

they, are they a pawn type?

:

01:07:32,146 --> 01:07:32,426

Right.

:

01:07:32,426 --> 01:07:36,216

I wasn't using those words, but

that is a, that is a struggle.

:

01:07:36,286 --> 01:07:40,436

And so, um, so if I'm,

if I'm understanding you

:

01:07:40,436 --> 01:07:41,566

correctly, you're saying.

:

01:07:42,521 --> 01:07:45,381

You should, if you want these

freedoms, don't be a pawn,

:

01:07:45,491 --> 01:07:47,131

therefore don't go into service.

:

01:07:47,701 --> 01:07:49,451

Is that kind of what your, your logic is?

:

01:07:49,461 --> 01:07:55,921

No, I mean, it's just a weird, it's

uh, I agree with you that most people

:

01:07:55,921 --> 01:07:59,971

that go into military service do it

for the quote unquote right reasons

:

01:07:59,971 --> 01:08:01,371

or their heart is in the right place.

:

01:08:01,901 --> 01:08:06,681

Um, to uphold the constitution, to

uphold quote unquote American values,

:

01:08:06,681 --> 01:08:07,781

the things that we care about.

:

01:08:08,441 --> 01:08:16,091

Um, I just, and, and we want as many

people in our nation's military, and

:

01:08:16,091 --> 01:08:18,930

I would even go as far as say police

force and whatnot, that actually

:

01:08:18,930 --> 01:08:22,191

believe in those things and don't

just blindly respect authority.

:

01:08:22,511 --> 01:08:22,770

Correct.

:

01:08:22,770 --> 01:08:23,121

Right?

:

01:08:23,571 --> 01:08:29,751

Um, but in practice, those

people are usually crushed.

:

01:08:30,331 --> 01:08:34,911

And the result is the remainder

are the ones that will just

:

01:08:34,921 --> 01:08:36,560

blindly follow authority.

:

01:08:37,381 --> 01:08:40,501

And I'm trying to be delicate

here because I know it's cliche,

:

01:08:40,501 --> 01:08:41,681

but thank you for your service.

:

01:08:41,751 --> 01:08:44,651

I like respect and grateful

for everyone that has served.

:

01:08:45,131 --> 01:08:50,341

Um, but those people tend to be

crushed and then the remainder are the

:

01:08:50,341 --> 01:08:52,631

ones that blindly respect authority.

:

01:08:52,661 --> 01:08:58,020

And that authority is, is at this

point in our nation's development is

:

01:08:58,991 --> 01:09:01,541

incredibly corrupt, like at its core.

:

01:09:02,031 --> 01:09:09,060

Um, and we saw that to the extreme

during the response to COVID where.

:

01:09:10,145 --> 01:09:14,616

Anyone who refused to get the vaccine

was kicked out of our military and

:

01:09:14,616 --> 01:09:16,106

was kicked out of police forces.

:

01:09:16,345 --> 01:09:21,616

So literally the only people you have

left over is the subservient class.

:

01:09:21,685 --> 01:09:24,236

The people that are just willing

to take it no matter what.

:

01:09:24,265 --> 01:09:25,776

Whatever you say, I'll do it.

:

01:09:26,276 --> 01:09:26,566

Right?

:

01:09:26,566 --> 01:09:33,116

And willing to turn a blind eye when the

person that was serving next to them is

:

01:09:33,621 --> 01:09:38,220

You know, is, is made destitute and, and

put out on the street essentially, right?

:

01:09:38,251 --> 01:09:40,640

And not able to support their

family because they've lost,

:

01:09:40,731 --> 01:09:42,011

they've lost their career.

:

01:09:42,551 --> 01:09:44,981

Yeah, I found that very disturbing,

what happened with all that, with the

:

01:09:45,001 --> 01:09:46,421

I mean, that's the extreme, right?

:

01:09:46,421 --> 01:09:48,111

But we were already trending that way.

:

01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,401

And then it was, you know,

like Parker, Parker Lewis, but

:

01:09:51,421 --> 01:09:52,831

gradually then suddenly, right?

:

01:09:52,841 --> 01:09:56,061

Like there was a gradual

Push in that direction.

:

01:09:56,501 --> 01:10:01,031

And then we had like the sudden

band aid rip of the COVID response.

:

01:10:02,021 --> 01:10:04,711

Um, and it should be interesting

to see how that all plays out.

:

01:10:04,711 --> 01:10:09,721

But I mean, we had a close

friend who was working with us

:

01:10:09,721 --> 01:10:11,761

at Bitcoin Magazine, me and P.

:

01:10:12,906 --> 01:10:19,356

And he was in the military and he

had actually retired a couple months

:

01:10:19,356 --> 01:10:24,406

before he had done his, his, his, he

had done his service and he retired

:

01:10:24,406 --> 01:10:26,546

according to their, their scheme, right?

:

01:10:26,546 --> 01:10:30,166

And he was getting his, he was, he was

on track to get his military pension.

:

01:10:30,966 --> 01:10:33,476

And they said as a retired person.

:

01:10:34,181 --> 01:10:36,921

That he needed to comply with

the vaccine mandate, otherwise

:

01:10:36,921 --> 01:10:38,081

he wouldn't get his pension.

:

01:10:39,031 --> 01:10:42,091

Um, so we saw that first hand

and him battling with that.

:

01:10:42,271 --> 01:10:42,591

Yeah.

:

01:10:42,751 --> 01:10:47,101

Um, and he was ultimately, he's like,

I'm going to fight this to the end.

:

01:10:47,741 --> 01:10:50,851

Out of principle, you know, I'm not

going to just fucking do this thing.

:

01:10:50,931 --> 01:10:53,021

He's like, even if I wanted

to take the vaccine, like, I'm

:

01:10:53,021 --> 01:10:54,271

not complying with this shit.

:

01:10:55,011 --> 01:10:58,351

Um, but yeah, I mean, it's

just crazy to witness.

:

01:10:59,151 --> 01:11:00,041

Yeah, I agree.

:

01:11:00,041 --> 01:11:04,111

There's It is the, but I mean, if we,

if we get the money, if we can fix the

:

01:11:04,121 --> 01:11:07,631

money, then we can, there's a lot of

things including fix the incentives.

:

01:11:07,631 --> 01:11:09,801

It's broken incentives everywhere, right?

:

01:11:11,401 --> 01:11:11,741

Okay.

:

01:11:11,771 --> 01:11:14,021

Um, this has been a great conversation.

:

01:11:14,031 --> 01:11:18,291

We're a little bit over an hour in, uh,

let's, uh, shall we talk about this?

:

01:11:18,301 --> 01:11:18,981

Awesome.

:

01:11:19,001 --> 01:11:20,601

This awesome board game you created.

:

01:11:20,631 --> 01:11:23,971

And I, I, once again, I, I said this

to, I said this at the beginning of

:

01:11:23,991 --> 01:11:27,511

the episode, but I said this to Scott

and Tali when we played the game.

:

01:11:29,211 --> 01:11:33,091

I don't say this lightly when I say it's

the best Bitcoin game I've ever played.

:

01:11:33,591 --> 01:11:35,341

Uh, I played many Bitcoin games.

:

01:11:35,421 --> 01:11:36,651

A lot of people want feedback.

:

01:11:37,091 --> 01:11:42,831

Uh, When you asked, uh, for feedback and I

met you for the first time, like literally

:

01:11:42,851 --> 01:11:47,011

no idea who you were, uh, you're standing

in Bitcoin Park and you're like, I have

:

01:11:47,011 --> 01:11:48,761

this Bitcoin game in the back of my head.

:

01:11:48,761 --> 01:11:51,061

I was like, well, it seems like a nice

guy, but the game definitely sucks.

:

01:11:51,731 --> 01:11:53,051

I was like, but I'll play with him.

:

01:11:53,051 --> 01:11:54,111

I like, I like games.

:

01:11:54,111 --> 01:11:55,021

I like competition.

:

01:11:55,021 --> 01:11:56,041

Like I'll play the game.

:

01:11:56,641 --> 01:12:02,161

And, uh, it wasn't just like a shitty

game with like Bitcoin bolted on.

:

01:12:02,191 --> 01:12:03,171

It's a good game.

:

01:12:03,181 --> 01:12:06,071

Like it's just a good game

regardless of, of Bitcoin.

:

01:12:06,506 --> 01:12:11,946

Um, and, and yeah, so at that point,

after we recorded that, after we recorded,

:

01:12:11,976 --> 01:12:15,666

after we played that game, which by

the way, I won and beat Scott, I was

:

01:12:15,696 --> 01:12:18,876

wondering if that was going to come up

and I even caught Scott not following his

:

01:12:18,876 --> 01:12:22,716

own rules, I called him out at one point

because I was keeping, don't trust verify

:

01:12:22,716 --> 01:12:25,316

freaks, that's right, um, very proud.

:

01:12:25,316 --> 01:12:27,496

I was like, we have to do

a dispatch on this game.

:

01:12:27,861 --> 01:12:32,111

And homeschooling because you

guys are just massive amount

:

01:12:32,111 --> 01:12:33,511

of knowledge in your heads.

:

01:12:34,211 --> 01:12:36,751

Uh, I don't want to keep it to myself,

but anyway, let's talk about this game.

:

01:12:36,761 --> 01:12:37,821

It's called huddle up.

:

01:12:38,061 --> 01:12:40,651

Uh, people can find it at freemarketkids.

:

01:12:40,651 --> 01:12:41,011

com.

:

01:12:41,021 --> 01:12:42,081

Fantastic name.

:

01:12:42,771 --> 01:12:46,351

Um, give us, let's start us

off, Scott, give us the show.

:

01:12:46,641 --> 01:12:49,971

So, um, it's, um, I appreciate

those, uh, those words.

:

01:12:49,971 --> 01:12:53,091

And I, it, it, I was, uh, just

blown away that you would actually

:

01:12:53,091 --> 01:12:55,271

give the time to actually have a.

:

01:12:55,826 --> 01:12:58,656

Stranger walk up to you and ask a favor.

:

01:12:58,756 --> 01:13:02,646

Um, I was just kind of like, I was

just kind of wowing the whole way home.

:

01:13:02,646 --> 01:13:05,026

Tommy's like, you know,

why is this big deal?

:

01:13:05,026 --> 01:13:06,586

I'm like, don't you understand?

:

01:13:06,616 --> 01:13:09,156

Like, this is so thanks

for thanks for that.

:

01:13:09,476 --> 01:13:14,746

The, this, this combines

just a few passions for me.

:

01:13:14,746 --> 01:13:15,486

So I've always liked.

:

01:13:16,016 --> 01:13:16,416

Games.

:

01:13:16,416 --> 01:13:18,046

There's a lot of benefits to them.

:

01:13:18,606 --> 01:13:21,106

The fellowship, the in person,

you're away from the screen time.

:

01:13:21,106 --> 01:13:23,766

There's a lot of, there are a lot

of things, but since we're talking

:

01:13:23,766 --> 01:13:27,206

about education, there's, there's

also a lot of educational benefit.

:

01:13:27,286 --> 01:13:31,236

So when the kids were young, for

example, we, we bought the Kiyosaki.

:

01:13:31,551 --> 01:13:32,611

Cashflow for kids.

:

01:13:32,611 --> 01:13:36,971

And you're always looking for

other ways to make the education,

:

01:13:38,131 --> 01:13:41,751

the education wasn't always

just about the ABCs and math.

:

01:13:41,901 --> 01:13:45,661

So Tali's like, I'm going to

put them into, I can't remember

:

01:13:45,661 --> 01:13:46,671

all the different activities.

:

01:13:46,721 --> 01:13:50,941

And then, so this, the games was

just another way of teaching.

:

01:13:52,041 --> 01:13:55,181

When I met in business

school, so we, we've kind of.

:

01:13:56,316 --> 01:13:59,566

We're inclined towards the financial

and economic side anyways, we're

:

01:13:59,566 --> 01:14:03,296

like, we better, how can two MBAs

not teach their kids about things?

:

01:14:03,556 --> 01:14:07,496

And the, the games are kind

of like the overlap of that.

:

01:14:07,496 --> 01:14:10,816

It was, it was, I want

my kids to understand.

:

01:14:11,631 --> 01:14:12,431

what this is.

:

01:14:12,491 --> 01:14:17,491

I have a lot of other ideas of

things I want to teach them and

:

01:14:17,561 --> 01:14:19,151

they are not always receptive.

:

01:14:19,151 --> 01:14:21,011

Our kids are not always receptive.

:

01:14:21,541 --> 01:14:22,831

They think it's another lecture.

:

01:14:22,871 --> 01:14:25,881

You know, dad's excited about

something, mom's on a tangent on

:

01:14:25,881 --> 01:14:31,881

whatever, whatever it is and and this

is a way where I, we could, I could

:

01:14:31,891 --> 01:14:33,981

selfishly do something with my family.

:

01:14:33,991 --> 01:14:36,261

My, my parents included,

my brother included.

:

01:14:36,271 --> 01:14:40,021

They're, they don't understand why

Tali and I are passionate about.

:

01:14:40,461 --> 01:14:46,601

About Bitcoin, but they were willing

to for two years help me play test

:

01:14:46,601 --> 01:14:47,931

this game and work things out.

:

01:14:47,991 --> 01:14:48,671

That's so cool.

:

01:14:49,081 --> 01:14:55,441

So, okay, so I don't have to

strong arm them into doing this.

:

01:14:56,071 --> 01:14:56,591

I have to.

:

01:14:57,036 --> 01:14:57,776

And it was actually good.

:

01:14:57,776 --> 01:15:00,816

My brother and I, we go to a game

conference every, every year.

:

01:15:00,816 --> 01:15:01,296

We just love it.

:

01:15:01,296 --> 01:15:02,556

And so we were play testing.

:

01:15:02,556 --> 01:15:03,756

He's like, well, what's this wallet thing?

:

01:15:04,496 --> 01:15:05,506

And we, we need to be able to do this.

:

01:15:05,516 --> 01:15:07,636

And I go, no, you can't do that

because you can't do that in Bitcoin.

:

01:15:07,636 --> 01:15:09,166

And he's like, well, I don't really care.

:

01:15:09,166 --> 01:15:09,746

It's a game.

:

01:15:10,446 --> 01:15:14,786

And so I, it forced me to go

back and do more research.

:

01:15:14,916 --> 01:15:19,086

And so it forced me to learn

better what this really was.

:

01:15:19,086 --> 01:15:20,356

And of course, the more I learned.

:

01:15:21,236 --> 01:15:25,786

The more hardened I became about the

opportunity and the more excited I

:

01:15:25,786 --> 01:15:29,506

got about it, but long story short,

this is the way this is what I

:

01:15:29,516 --> 01:15:32,886

would like to have to selfishly to

be able to get with my own family.

:

01:15:33,066 --> 01:15:35,956

And then Holly was like, well, kind

of put your money where your mouth

:

01:15:35,956 --> 01:15:37,816

is with these with these ideas.

:

01:15:37,816 --> 01:15:40,916

We're always telling the kids

they should start a business.

:

01:15:41,346 --> 01:15:42,516

There's a lot of opportunities.

:

01:15:42,516 --> 01:15:46,956

You don't have to look at the traditional

schooling, like universities, and

:

01:15:46,966 --> 01:15:48,316

that was that's where it started.

:

01:15:48,886 --> 01:15:49,746

It was just a combination.

:

01:15:49,746 --> 01:15:51,226

I was passionate about the subject.

:

01:15:51,511 --> 01:15:56,051

And to this day, the kids are well,

one of one of our, our daughters is.

:

01:15:56,881 --> 01:16:00,321

Is actually excited about

investing in, in Bitcoin.

:

01:16:01,321 --> 01:16:06,501

But someday what I'm hoping is they,

they come back, maybe it's a few

:

01:16:06,501 --> 01:16:09,501

years or whatever it is, and they're

going to say, okay, now I'm ready.

:

01:16:09,501 --> 01:16:11,291

And now I have this all packaged up.

:

01:16:11,291 --> 01:16:14,591

I have the game and there were so

many elements I couldn't put into it.

:

01:16:14,916 --> 01:16:18,446

I said, I'll just put those into a

book on the side and that's what the,

:

01:16:18,696 --> 01:16:22,816

um, I'm building the, um, basically

I'm learning through games, 21 Bitcoin

:

01:16:22,826 --> 01:16:25,576

lessons that you could go with the game.

:

01:16:25,826 --> 01:16:27,736

And so selfishly, this is what I wanted.

:

01:16:28,646 --> 01:16:32,036

And now, um, now I'm just really excited.

:

01:16:32,036 --> 01:16:34,876

Like today, we got an opportunity

to, to, to introduce it to some

:

01:16:34,876 --> 01:16:36,356

new folks here at Bitcoin Park.

:

01:16:36,356 --> 01:16:41,016

And it's actually really exciting to

share with other Bitcoiners and not my

:

01:16:41,016 --> 01:16:42,716

family who doesn't understand Bitcoin.

:

01:16:43,491 --> 01:16:46,651

And then for them to say, Hey, I can

give this to my family or, Hey, I

:

01:16:46,651 --> 01:16:47,931

can share this with somebody else.

:

01:16:47,941 --> 01:16:48,571

And it's a way.

:

01:16:48,571 --> 01:16:54,431

So if imagine this was in our schools

or if this was in our libraries, or this

:

01:16:54,431 --> 01:16:59,401

was, if you had a Bitcoin meetup on a

regular basis, that was just game night.

:

01:17:00,361 --> 01:17:04,001

There's a lot of opportunity where we

can help get these ideas out to others

:

01:17:04,041 --> 01:17:09,721

without coming across as read this book or

listen to this podcast or whatever it is.

:

01:17:10,351 --> 01:17:14,461

Um, but selfishly, I just like games

and I really enjoyed designing them.

:

01:17:15,206 --> 01:17:18,796

And I really liked the education

side and that's kind of the, the

:

01:17:18,796 --> 01:17:22,276

Genesis for, uh, for the game itself.

:

01:17:22,526 --> 01:17:27,516

And the reason it took two years was one,

I, I was still learning Bitcoin and two,

:

01:17:27,516 --> 01:17:31,816

it was really hard to figure out something

that was simple enough to play, but was

:

01:17:31,846 --> 01:17:34,026

good enough that it brought up an idea to.

:

01:17:34,526 --> 01:17:35,706

I'd actually want to talk about.

:

01:17:36,906 --> 01:17:41,906

So my brother asked me, well, why are

the, why did the number of tokens go

:

01:17:41,906 --> 01:17:43,646

down by half every once in a while?

:

01:17:43,976 --> 01:17:44,216

Okay.

:

01:17:44,216 --> 01:17:45,346

Well, that's a whole subject.

:

01:17:46,126 --> 01:17:46,966

Why what's this wallet?

:

01:17:46,966 --> 01:17:49,756

Why is a wallet have a, why is there

a cold wallet and a hot wallet?

:

01:17:50,026 --> 01:17:50,716

Like who cares?

:

01:17:50,726 --> 01:17:51,306

Like that kind of thing.

:

01:17:51,336 --> 01:17:54,251

And so there's so many ways to have.

:

01:17:54,761 --> 01:17:56,861

Conversations that are

just a starting point.

:

01:17:56,961 --> 01:17:57,211

Yeah.

:

01:17:57,361 --> 01:17:59,181

They're like the seeds that you can plant.

:

01:17:59,191 --> 01:18:03,931

So, um, really excited to, to share

with others and have other people join

:

01:18:03,931 --> 01:18:08,191

in games, I think, especially after

COVID being able to do things in person,

:

01:18:08,191 --> 01:18:09,271

there's just something different.

:

01:18:09,951 --> 01:18:11,161

And that's why.

:

01:18:11,876 --> 01:18:14,726

You know, Matt, what you and Rod are

building here at the Bitcoin part.

:

01:18:14,726 --> 01:18:18,556

This is why we're willing to drive

here is because like we get to connect.

:

01:18:18,596 --> 01:18:19,516

How long is the drive?

:

01:18:19,646 --> 01:18:20,286

Three hours.

:

01:18:20,296 --> 01:18:20,786

Three hours.

:

01:18:21,266 --> 01:18:27,096

And like, I can't describe to you how

much, like how valuable that is personally

:

01:18:27,146 --> 01:18:31,675

to be able to come and then be with

people that you, that You can understand,

:

01:18:31,876 --> 01:18:33,006

understand the way they're speaking.

:

01:18:33,016 --> 01:18:36,256

You may not have the same background,

but there's a connection there.

:

01:18:36,306 --> 01:18:41,856

And, um, to me, games are, games are

a way of, of connecting with people.

:

01:18:41,976 --> 01:18:44,006

You don't have to feel like you

have to have a conversation going.

:

01:18:44,006 --> 01:18:45,766

You can just sit there

and make small talk.

:

01:18:46,366 --> 01:18:49,566

If you want to geek out like a

homeschooling dad and build a lecture in

:

01:18:49,566 --> 01:18:51,776

it, you can go for it, or you can just.

:

01:18:52,156 --> 01:18:57,436

Just play, we're just going to play and

so that's, um, that's where it started and

:

01:18:57,436 --> 01:19:02,286

now I'm kind of getting more excited about

sharing it as I see people react to it.

:

01:19:04,126 --> 01:19:09,536

So interesting, you know, really

creating the process of creating a game.

:

01:19:09,606 --> 01:19:12,896

And as you said, building out the

effective game mechanics and really play

:

01:19:12,896 --> 01:19:16,436

testing it and being able to distill

it down into the essential components.

:

01:19:16,766 --> 01:19:23,226

While also creating a really profound

and correct educational opportunity.

:

01:19:23,276 --> 01:19:27,026

That seems so challenging to me

and I haven't played it yet, but

:

01:19:27,026 --> 01:19:28,666

I'm really, really excited to.

:

01:19:29,026 --> 01:19:32,696

And I think also, as you said,

like having a physical game that.

:

01:19:33,486 --> 01:19:37,556

Has mechanics that are exciting enough

so that someone who doesn't understand

:

01:19:37,566 --> 01:19:39,656

Bitcoin still can enjoy the game.

:

01:19:39,656 --> 01:19:41,956

I just think that's such a,

uh, an effective way of, you

:

01:19:41,956 --> 01:19:44,896

know, in a positive sense, like

Trojan horsing what Bitcoin is.

:

01:19:44,896 --> 01:19:45,786

Oh, absolutely.

:

01:19:46,136 --> 01:19:46,476

It did.

:

01:19:46,476 --> 01:19:47,916

I'll tell you just, uh, on that.

:

01:19:47,916 --> 01:19:51,966

So for example, one of the biggest

arguments I got into with my

:

01:19:51,966 --> 01:19:55,816

brother doing this was, I'm like,

you can't move someone's Bitcoin

:

01:19:55,816 --> 01:19:56,746

if they don't have the keys.

:

01:19:56,796 --> 01:19:57,206

That's it.

:

01:19:58,016 --> 01:20:02,076

And his, his point was, well, if you

start out before the halving, You're

:

01:20:02,076 --> 01:20:03,756

going to get a lot of the Bitcoin.

:

01:20:03,756 --> 01:20:05,456

So whoever starts out, that's it.

:

01:20:05,466 --> 01:20:06,086

The game's over.

:

01:20:06,086 --> 01:20:07,696

There's no, you have to

be able to move stuff.

:

01:20:08,836 --> 01:20:11,366

And that was probably one of the

things that we went back and forth

:

01:20:11,376 --> 01:20:14,546

the longest on, and then it, what it

ended with for those that haven't.

:

01:20:14,951 --> 01:20:18,971

Played obviously the the audience built

that in that you can try to have a

:

01:20:18,971 --> 01:20:23,951

transaction to move something and someone

can fight If your bitcoin is on the hot

:

01:20:23,951 --> 01:20:29,671

side of the your your card it's vulnerable

you roll the die and you got a chance that

:

01:20:29,671 --> 01:20:34,986

someone did a phishing scam or they they

they did a sim swap or some other They

:

01:20:34,986 --> 01:20:38,586

did something else to you, but there's

also a risk for the person who's attacking

:

01:20:38,586 --> 01:20:42,766

you that you successfully defended

and you get to, to, to move it on.

:

01:20:42,766 --> 01:20:47,536

So it turned out to be a really

great learning point, but there

:

01:20:47,536 --> 01:20:50,326

was a lot of back and forth of

like, just, well, it's a game.

:

01:20:50,326 --> 01:20:51,386

It has to be playable.

:

01:20:51,746 --> 01:20:52,776

So how do you work in there?

:

01:20:52,776 --> 01:20:57,866

But I'm like, yeah, but I can't compromise

on, I can't compromise on how it works.

:

01:20:57,866 --> 01:20:59,856

And so it's not perfect.

:

01:20:59,866 --> 01:21:02,046

There's some things in there

that are not a hundred percent.

:

01:21:02,731 --> 01:21:06,611

Exactly right in terms of terminology,

but I just try to squeeze everything

:

01:21:06,611 --> 01:21:10,851

I could in there to to do it that

that that was one of the ones that I

:

01:21:10,851 --> 01:21:13,561

think now is a good thing as I watch

people play because there's a lot of

:

01:21:13,561 --> 01:21:18,821

conversation about protecting your your

Bitcoin and there's a chance if you are

:

01:21:18,821 --> 01:21:22,511

behind being a game you can actually

catch up so you can still Yeah, I can

:

01:21:22,511 --> 01:21:25,791

play with my brother and I don't have

to worry about discussing keys with him.

:

01:21:25,791 --> 01:21:27,050

I can just play the game.

:

01:21:27,541 --> 01:21:28,111

We're good.

:

01:21:28,701 --> 01:21:34,216

So I think one of the things that the

game helped me personally is seeing the

:

01:21:34,496 --> 01:21:37,996

blockchain visually and seeing how it's

constructed, even though it's just a model

:

01:21:39,136 --> 01:21:44,296

to help me understand the abstract idea

of the blockchain, because I'm not techie.

:

01:21:44,306 --> 01:21:47,341

And when people talk blockchain,

It just goes over my head.

:

01:21:47,351 --> 01:21:52,501

I don't know why, why a string of

numbers should mean anything at

:

01:21:52,501 --> 01:21:56,381

all until he put out this game and

started explaining things to me.

:

01:21:56,381 --> 01:21:57,931

I'm like, Oh, that's what

you're talking about.

:

01:21:58,231 --> 01:22:00,711

It's just sometimes you just

need to touch something, right?

:

01:22:01,611 --> 01:22:02,641

I'm a big believer in that.

:

01:22:03,941 --> 01:22:06,961

That's also like when Scott was

like trying to explain the rules.

:

01:22:06,961 --> 01:22:08,741

It's like, can we just play

the, can we just play the game?

:

01:22:09,201 --> 01:22:11,550

Yeah, I like learning by fire.

:

01:22:11,871 --> 01:22:14,311

That's going to influence how we do

game nights, by the way, we're not

:

01:22:14,311 --> 01:22:15,261

going to show them videos or anything.

:

01:22:15,261 --> 01:22:16,961

We're just going to go, okay,

we're just going to jump right

:

01:22:16,961 --> 01:22:17,561

in and start doing stuff.

:

01:22:17,881 --> 01:22:21,701

Yeah, we're going to do, we're going

to do game nights at Bitcoin Park with

:

01:22:21,711 --> 01:22:27,431

Scott and Tali, uh, so people can play

the game firsthand, uh, be a lot of fun.

:

01:22:27,461 --> 01:22:30,751

I mean, Scott was mentioning that right

before this podcast, uh, we had a bunch

:

01:22:30,751 --> 01:22:34,041

of people at Bitcoin Park playing the game

and I, Scott, like kind of looked at me.

:

01:22:34,041 --> 01:22:35,231

He's like, do we have

enough time for the podcast?

:

01:22:35,271 --> 01:22:36,761

I was like, Scott, go get the game.

:

01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:37,741

Let's play the game.

:

01:22:37,751 --> 01:22:38,751

Like we have to play it.

:

01:22:40,151 --> 01:22:42,576

I I, you tried to get me to

play and I was like, no, no.

:

01:22:42,726 --> 01:22:44,716

I went around and immediately

I was like, I fucked up.

:

01:22:44,716 --> 01:22:45,706

I should, I should be playing this game.

:

01:22:45,706 --> 01:22:46,336

It looks so much fun.

:

01:22:46,336 --> 01:22:48,646

So instead we roped him

into the podcast, . Oh yeah.

:

01:22:50,175 --> 01:22:53,536

No, but I'd appreciate that you're,

I I mean it's, it was that, that

:

01:22:53,541 --> 01:22:56,356

experience of playing the first

time here was, it was great.

:

01:22:56,356 --> 01:22:59,986

'cause you guys were the first

Bitcoiners that I had to test it with.

:

01:22:59,986 --> 01:23:00,796

That's interesting.

:

01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:01,050

Mm-Hmm.

:

01:23:01,231 --> 01:23:03,566

. And I wasn't sure how it was gonna fly.

:

01:23:03,566 --> 01:23:05,066

Like, you know, you had a good game there.

:

01:23:05,066 --> 01:23:07,886

But you didn't know if it was Actually

I didn't, yeah, I didn't know.

:

01:23:07,886 --> 01:23:09,131

Held up with big Bitcoin, but I already.

:

01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:16,231

It already kind of committed to it along

the way to, to make it, but, um, but I

:

01:23:16,231 --> 01:23:19,861

mean, it took you, you guys picked up the

concepts much faster, I think, than people

:

01:23:19,861 --> 01:23:24,300

who are not used to the terminology and

other things that are in the, in the game.

:

01:23:25,151 --> 01:23:29,201

Um, and so I was, yeah, even though you

beat me, which I was not happy about, but

:

01:23:29,201 --> 01:23:32,461

I, but I was like, wow, they, they got it.

:

01:23:32,491 --> 01:23:37,581

Like they, and I was like, that

actually was really, um, fulfilling to.

:

01:23:37,846 --> 01:23:38,416

To do that.

:

01:23:38,496 --> 01:23:40,646

I, I just, it was really,

it was really kind of a cool

:

01:23:40,646 --> 01:23:41,836

moment for me personally to see.

:

01:23:42,806 --> 01:23:45,526

Okay, Bitcoiners,

Bitcoiners are okay with it.

:

01:23:46,816 --> 01:23:47,526

Okay, all right.

:

01:23:47,526 --> 01:23:49,706

That's what, that was,

that was like the test.

:

01:23:49,736 --> 01:23:52,896

If, if Bitcoin, because if you, if you

looked at it and said, huh, good luck.

:

01:23:53,306 --> 01:23:53,706

Right.

:

01:23:53,706 --> 01:23:57,656

I mean, and one of the Bitcoiners that

we had playing with us, uh, this great

:

01:23:57,675 --> 01:24:00,366

dude, Ben, I was hoping he was going

to join us for this conversation,

:

01:24:00,366 --> 01:24:02,675

but Schedules and we moved it up.

:

01:24:03,186 --> 01:24:06,776

He actually, he had bought the game

from you and then he brought it back

:

01:24:06,786 --> 01:24:10,026

for Christmas and was playing it with

his family who were not Bitcoiners.

:

01:24:10,316 --> 01:24:11,446

It's on the opposite side.

:

01:24:11,546 --> 01:24:12,706

He said it went really well.

:

01:24:13,446 --> 01:24:16,936

Um, and they started to actually

understand it and it makes sense

:

01:24:16,946 --> 01:24:21,296

because if you go back to Why you

created this game in the first

:

01:24:21,296 --> 01:24:25,066

place is you were a bit of the crazy

Bitcoiner in the family, right?

:

01:24:25,336 --> 01:24:28,206

And you're like, how can I show that?

:

01:24:28,206 --> 01:24:30,016

I'm not at least completely crazy.

:

01:24:31,286 --> 01:24:35,356

So I'm gonna go build this game So you

guys will learn I would love to talk to

:

01:24:35,356 --> 01:24:38,536

him about how the feedback from yeah,

we'll talk He'll be here this week.

:

01:24:38,536 --> 01:24:40,506

So you'll you'll be able

to talk to him about it.

:

01:24:41,606 --> 01:24:43,126

He was very excited He brought it up.

:

01:24:43,126 --> 01:24:43,646

Not me.

:

01:24:44,296 --> 01:24:44,886

Oh wonderful.

:

01:24:44,896 --> 01:24:45,726

Very excited.

:

01:24:45,826 --> 01:24:50,896

Yeah, but anyway, so

Where do we go with this?

:

01:24:52,276 --> 01:25:00,591

So it's a board game I love board games,

um, up to six players can play, uh,

:

01:25:02,441 --> 01:25:06,931

and a lot of surface level concepts

are, are, are, it's, it's, there's,

:

01:25:06,941 --> 01:25:10,971

there's an educational element to it,

um, it's, but it's just also just a fun

:

01:25:10,971 --> 01:25:16,441

competitive game that works, um, so,

so what are the educational elements,

:

01:25:16,471 --> 01:25:21,871

uh, there's a difficulty adjustment in

it, which is, which is key, halving is

:

01:25:21,871 --> 01:25:28,741

obviously massive, block reward, block

subsidy, Um, hot and cold wallets, every

:

01:25:28,741 --> 01:25:32,031

player has a hot and cold wallet and

if your bitcoins in your hot wallet, it

:

01:25:32,031 --> 01:25:36,911

can be taken from you because you, you

can choose to invest in mining, right?

:

01:25:36,961 --> 01:25:41,691

And you can also invest, yes, you can, you

can exchange your, your Bitcoin and invest

:

01:25:41,691 --> 01:25:46,800

in additional rigs that you get additional

nonce cards or additional chances to mine.

:

01:25:47,111 --> 01:25:49,861

I wanted something to reward

people for making that investment.

:

01:25:51,101 --> 01:25:52,781

Um, you also have the halving event.

:

01:25:52,791 --> 01:25:55,661

I think we mentioned that before.

:

01:25:55,661 --> 01:26:01,511

The halving really, uh, it's visceral.

:

01:26:02,071 --> 01:26:04,661

It captures the FOMO of

the halving very well.

:

01:26:05,431 --> 01:26:08,391

As you're playing, you're like, Oh my God,

there's not enough Bitcoin to go around.

:

01:26:08,401 --> 01:26:10,141

Like, I need this Bitcoin now.

:

01:26:10,231 --> 01:26:10,800

That's so funny.

:

01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:12,761

I wonder how many people

are going to play this game.

:

01:26:13,266 --> 01:26:16,916

And then it's going to fundamentally

change their strategy around how they

:

01:26:16,916 --> 01:26:18,216

acquire Bitcoin in the real world.

:

01:26:20,066 --> 01:26:26,826

No, if it'll be that big, I, um, I, I

feel like I, it was to, to your point

:

01:26:26,826 --> 01:26:30,506

though, what was interesting is that so

we've played this with like homeschooling

:

01:26:30,516 --> 01:26:37,096

kids that come over and there's always a

different dynamic and how people play it.

:

01:26:37,376 --> 01:26:41,126

And when this first game

with, with Bitcoiners.

:

01:26:41,675 --> 01:26:44,916

Like it took like one or two

hands and then they clicked in.

:

01:26:46,196 --> 01:26:49,696

And then it was like, I started to hear

comments, like there's a having coming

:

01:26:49,696 --> 01:26:51,566

up, so maybe I should do this instead.

:

01:26:51,796 --> 01:26:54,925

And they're like, well, maybe,

but so and so is ahead right now.

:

01:26:54,925 --> 01:26:56,016

Here's a difficulty adjustment.

:

01:26:56,036 --> 01:26:57,376

Maybe I should go to cold storage.

:

01:26:57,376 --> 01:26:58,126

There was all these.

:

01:26:58,896 --> 01:27:03,046

Like thought processes that people

were vocalizing and I just loved it.

:

01:27:03,046 --> 01:27:06,876

I was like, because there's, there's

elements of chance in there, but

:

01:27:06,876 --> 01:27:10,956

you also can make decisions on the

collusion and all that stuff, right?

:

01:27:10,956 --> 01:27:14,206

So it introduces, I think, Matt,

to your question that there's, um,

:

01:27:14,425 --> 01:27:18,916

when I wrote the book, there were 12

different chapters that are just kind

:

01:27:18,916 --> 01:27:22,026

of fundamental Bitcoin, things like

the having or the difficult adjustment.

:

01:27:22,581 --> 01:27:26,691

I have one chapter just on bad actors,

which is the die, and so I broke that

:

01:27:26,691 --> 01:27:31,621

out, and then the remaining nine chapters

are on each of the, there's one type of

:

01:27:31,621 --> 01:27:35,451

card in the game that you need to make a

transaction called a hash card, and that's

:

01:27:35,451 --> 01:27:37,031

what links things on the time chain.

:

01:27:37,251 --> 01:27:41,261

So every, every block you,

you, you put down has to be

:

01:27:41,261 --> 01:27:42,331

linked to the one before it.

:

01:27:43,541 --> 01:27:48,136

And the Those cards all have

a unique expression on them.

:

01:27:48,136 --> 01:27:51,476

There's no, no two are the same,

no two hashes are the same.

:

01:27:51,696 --> 01:27:54,836

And that was my personal compromise

for all the other things that

:

01:27:54,836 --> 01:27:58,066

I wish I could have brought in

and to talk about, but couldn't.

:

01:27:58,986 --> 01:28:01,386

So I just have a lot of

vocabulary on, on there.

:

01:28:01,386 --> 01:28:04,556

And so the last nine chapters

basically take the theme of those.

:

01:28:04,616 --> 01:28:06,276

So these are themes about frameworks.

:

01:28:06,276 --> 01:28:08,626

These are themes about, you

know, other, other things.

:

01:28:09,256 --> 01:28:11,046

And you can use it more

like a, as a reference.

:

01:28:11,556 --> 01:28:14,856

If you're new to Bitcoin, all I

wanted to do is introduce the, the

:

01:28:14,886 --> 01:28:17,436

terminology and the links to information.

:

01:28:17,436 --> 01:28:21,056

If you're curious about what it's

so snore singers, how to say it?

:

01:28:21,056 --> 01:28:21,776

Snore signatures.

:

01:28:21,836 --> 01:28:22,196

How do you say it?

:

01:28:22,196 --> 01:28:22,556

Snore.

:

01:28:22,646 --> 01:28:22,976

Schor.

:

01:28:23,096 --> 01:28:23,366

Snore.

:

01:28:24,326 --> 01:28:27,506

I read that, I must've read that thing

multiple times on what those are.

:

01:28:27,511 --> 01:28:28,496

I still couldn't explain.

:

01:28:28,496 --> 01:28:29,756

I'm like, okay, well

I'm gonna get it down.

:

01:28:30,536 --> 01:28:32,936

A couple things on this, and if

anybody's curious about it, I'm gonna

:

01:28:32,936 --> 01:28:34,226

send 'em to the links that I found.

:

01:28:35,006 --> 01:28:39,425

The second half of the, of the,

of the book was just depending

:

01:28:39,425 --> 01:28:41,046

on where your curiosity goes.

:

01:28:41,556 --> 01:28:44,346

You could, I could find the resources

that I had found over the last

:

01:28:44,346 --> 01:28:46,056

couple of years to send people.

:

01:28:46,076 --> 01:28:48,766

So the first, the first half of it

is purely kind of what we've been

:

01:28:48,766 --> 01:28:52,326

talking about, where the mechanics

of the game teach you something.

:

01:28:52,826 --> 01:28:55,936

And then the second half is

really an introduction to kind

:

01:28:55,936 --> 01:28:58,446

of Bitcoin 101 terminology.

:

01:28:58,946 --> 01:29:02,956

Yeah, I like the concept in general

of, uh, you have a game and then

:

01:29:02,956 --> 01:29:04,406

you have a book attached to it.

:

01:29:05,376 --> 01:29:08,056

So it's like really like an

educational first mindset.

:

01:29:08,936 --> 01:29:09,686

With games.

:

01:29:09,756 --> 01:29:10,356

Exactly.

:

01:29:10,566 --> 01:29:10,786

Right.

:

01:29:10,816 --> 01:29:14,196

This is the, this is what I would

have wanted, you know, if not knowing

:

01:29:14,206 --> 01:29:17,596

Bitcoin, if someone had given me a game

and I wanted to play with my kids and

:

01:29:17,596 --> 01:29:22,326

understand and we, we like Talia and I

wanted to teach about it, this would be

:

01:29:22,326 --> 01:29:26,726

the, what I would want as a resource to

go and find the things to, to talk about.

:

01:29:27,386 --> 01:29:31,656

Um, and so it, and sort of like

homeschooling, homeschooling, when

:

01:29:31,656 --> 01:29:34,186

you go back and revisit things

you're teaching your kids, you find

:

01:29:34,186 --> 01:29:35,166

that you learn things you didn't.

:

01:29:35,681 --> 01:29:40,961

You didn't recall from school history

or whatever by going back and trying

:

01:29:40,961 --> 01:29:46,631

to write put those things in writing I

found all the different things that I

:

01:29:46,651 --> 01:29:50,731

thought I knew but didn't really know and

I had to do extra homework So I actually

:

01:29:51,531 --> 01:29:56,996

I actually selfishly learned more by

making it then Even if no one else ever

:

01:29:56,996 --> 01:29:59,386

picks it up, I had to go through it.

:

01:29:59,396 --> 01:30:02,566

It's something about writing it

down forces you to, you have to,

:

01:30:02,606 --> 01:30:05,026

you have to actually think through

what you're, you're, you're writing.

:

01:30:05,026 --> 01:30:11,326

So, um, so I learned a lot, uh, you know,

from that, but my goal is now to share

:

01:30:11,326 --> 01:30:16,175

that with, that you can just say, I have a

friend, the family or, uh, whoever it is,

:

01:30:16,175 --> 01:30:17,866

it could be a school library, whatever.

:

01:30:18,466 --> 01:30:20,206

Here's the book that goes with the game.

:

01:30:20,206 --> 01:30:22,216

It's a pair and.

:

01:30:22,866 --> 01:30:26,216

And now just play and then if you,

you're interested in, as you become

:

01:30:26,216 --> 01:30:30,366

curious about things, this, this is

a place that will send you off to

:

01:30:30,386 --> 01:30:32,336

start your, your rabbit hole journey.

:

01:30:33,866 --> 01:30:36,576

I immediately imagine like going

to Thanksgiving with my family and

:

01:30:36,576 --> 01:30:39,126

just locking them all in a room and

being like, you can't come out until

:

01:30:39,126 --> 01:30:40,636

you understand this, this, and this.

:

01:30:40,636 --> 01:30:43,756

And then just yelling through

the door, what is a hot wallet?

:

01:30:45,175 --> 01:30:47,776

I'm curious what your experience

of the process has been of

:

01:30:47,776 --> 01:30:48,816

this game being designed.

:

01:30:48,816 --> 01:30:49,266

Like, yeah.

:

01:30:50,166 --> 01:30:52,866

So real quick, uh, we have a Bitcoin.

:

01:30:53,441 --> 01:30:55,911

Is the username in, uh, the chat.

:

01:30:55,931 --> 01:30:57,381

If you go to freemarketkids.

:

01:30:57,381 --> 01:30:58,550

com, you can buy the game.

:

01:30:58,741 --> 01:31:01,591

Uh, you can pay with

credit card or Bitcoin.

:

01:31:01,621 --> 01:31:03,821

Bitcoin is accepted if you

go through the prompts.

:

01:31:04,021 --> 01:31:07,721

Uh, you'll, you'll be, you'll be

given an option between paying with

:

01:31:07,721 --> 01:31:08,941

credit card or paying with Bitcoin.

:

01:31:09,101 --> 01:31:10,881

They asked why they

couldn't pay with Bitcoin.

:

01:31:11,411 --> 01:31:12,741

And the game, by the way, is Huddle Up.

:

01:31:12,771 --> 01:31:14,351

There's a couple different

games that are on the website.

:

01:31:14,351 --> 01:31:14,851

It's Huddle Up.

:

01:31:14,911 --> 01:31:15,311

Yeah.

:

01:31:15,951 --> 01:31:17,861

So I'm, I'm thinking

about adding something.

:

01:31:17,951 --> 01:31:21,351

I'm new to building websites, but we'll,

to put something on there on the front.

:

01:31:21,681 --> 01:31:25,101

To set to space, say, Hey,

you can buy it with Bitcoin.

:

01:31:25,101 --> 01:31:27,050

Here's how you do it on there.

:

01:31:27,050 --> 01:31:30,331

And then the second thing to call

out is that the book it's written.

:

01:31:30,401 --> 01:31:33,371

I'm doing the editing phase

now and the formatting so that

:

01:31:33,571 --> 01:31:34,771

I can't ship that out yet.

:

01:31:34,951 --> 01:31:38,976

Probably a month out, maybe six weeks

out from being able to To do that,

:

01:31:38,976 --> 01:31:40,576

the games I have in stock right now.

:

01:31:42,566 --> 01:31:43,686

Getting back to your question, Pete.

:

01:31:43,686 --> 01:31:44,106

Yes.

:

01:31:45,106 --> 01:31:47,936

Scott started talking to me

about Bitcoin a few years ago.

:

01:31:48,086 --> 01:31:51,616

And when he first mentioned

it to me, I put up my hand.

:

01:31:51,616 --> 01:31:53,876

I said, talk to the hand

because I don't have time.

:

01:31:54,206 --> 01:31:55,036

I don't know what it is.

:

01:31:55,076 --> 01:31:56,096

I don't understand it.

:

01:31:56,326 --> 01:31:58,406

I've got other things

I'm trying to finish.

:

01:31:58,416 --> 01:32:00,706

You know, homeschooling the kids

last few years of high school.

:

01:32:00,736 --> 01:32:02,796

I'm like, I can't talk

about this right now.

:

01:32:03,896 --> 01:32:06,736

And then he started creating

this prototype for the game.

:

01:32:07,671 --> 01:32:09,371

And the, and I didn't want to play it.

:

01:32:11,491 --> 01:32:15,041

I really, I was, it just, it was

so, the concept was so foreign.

:

01:32:15,071 --> 01:32:21,121

I can't wrap, I couldn't wrap my

head around the thought that a

:

01:32:21,121 --> 01:32:23,821

string of numbers and letters can.

:

01:32:24,411 --> 01:32:25,021

be money.

:

01:32:25,971 --> 01:32:32,501

And it was through many, um, prototypes

that his brother was so patiently

:

01:32:32,931 --> 01:32:37,550

working on with him that I eventually

started to understand to the point where

:

01:32:37,581 --> 01:32:39,621

I wanted to listen to a book about it.

:

01:32:40,351 --> 01:32:44,300

So the book that I listened

to, uh, was called hard money.

:

01:32:44,300 --> 01:32:45,050

You can't F with.

:

01:32:45,881 --> 01:32:47,571

And by the end of the book, I was sold.

:

01:32:48,231 --> 01:32:50,541

And then his game took

on a whole new meaning.

:

01:32:50,550 --> 01:32:54,721

And I was really trying to understand

it, but if he had not created that

:

01:32:54,721 --> 01:33:01,026

game, I would still be having a really

hard time trying to grasp the concept

:

01:33:01,175 --> 01:33:03,186

of the code and things like that.

:

01:33:03,186 --> 01:33:04,146

I'm just not a techie.

:

01:33:04,506 --> 01:33:04,806

I'm not.

:

01:33:05,516 --> 01:33:10,276

Yeah, so I have found that to be so

helpful because everybody that I talk to

:

01:33:10,286 --> 01:33:15,786

who isn't a BitCorner, who knows about

Bitcoin, their first response to me is,

:

01:33:16,246 --> 01:33:20,286

Oh, I need to learn more about Bitcoin,

but in their mind, it requires hours

:

01:33:20,286 --> 01:33:23,516

and hours of listening to podcasts and

reading books and reading articles and

:

01:33:23,526 --> 01:33:27,146

endless, you know, like a long list of

research that they have to do, like,

:

01:33:27,146 --> 01:33:29,056

but you can understand the fundamentals.

:

01:33:29,086 --> 01:33:30,806

If you play this one board game, it takes.

:

01:33:31,226 --> 01:33:37,886

30 minutes, and then the major part of

Bitcoin will be explained, or at least

:

01:33:37,886 --> 01:33:39,696

you have enough knowledge to go forward.

:

01:33:39,696 --> 01:33:44,776

You have a foundation, a framework

for thinking about it, at least.

:

01:33:45,246 --> 01:33:45,536

Right.

:

01:33:45,656 --> 01:33:49,056

And then you have the book attached

to it if you want to go further,

:

01:33:49,606 --> 01:33:50,516

further down the rabbit hole.

:

01:33:50,526 --> 01:33:50,896

Exactly.

:

01:33:50,896 --> 01:33:55,486

Yeah, that was, that's a good

question though, because.

:

01:33:56,486 --> 01:34:00,156

She doesn't always want to play the

games, and I want to play games a lot, and

:

01:34:00,796 --> 01:34:05,146

there's some tension there, um, but it's,

it's been, it's been kind of a journey,

:

01:34:05,146 --> 01:34:07,896

and now I've gotten her to the point

where she's okay to play a game every

:

01:34:07,896 --> 01:34:11,026

once in a while, so we're getting, we're

getting better, it's like a game therapy.

:

01:34:11,026 --> 01:34:14,835

I mean, this game is literally

a love child, really.

:

01:34:14,916 --> 01:34:16,466

I mean, he, we have poor soul.

:

01:34:17,046 --> 01:34:23,626

Much time and effort into it and I'll

give you an example one time Our youngest

:

01:34:23,646 --> 01:34:27,166

was a home that the three were overseas

and Scott was trying to work out some

:

01:34:28,156 --> 01:34:32,736

Just nuances in the instructions just

the instructions and they had a debate

:

01:34:32,746 --> 01:34:38,556

for an hour That was how seriously

our youngest took the instructions.

:

01:34:38,936 --> 01:34:43,306

They debated over the wording over

the, I think, the first two sentences.

:

01:34:43,306 --> 01:34:47,936

And at the very end of it, both of them

were mad, and they didn't play the game.

:

01:34:49,286 --> 01:34:51,856

You had asked before, like,

your kids, when they could stand

:

01:34:51,856 --> 01:34:52,886

up and think for themselves.

:

01:34:53,166 --> 01:34:55,226

This was at the time, I

think he was, was he 15?

:

01:34:55,276 --> 01:34:55,636

14?

:

01:34:55,636 --> 01:34:56,906

I don't know.

:

01:34:56,906 --> 01:34:58,156

But we argued over it.

:

01:34:58,556 --> 01:35:01,755

And then I'm like, listen,

he's like, why is this?

:

01:35:01,776 --> 01:35:04,636

And I go, well, you know, and then

I found a YouTube video that showed

:

01:35:04,636 --> 01:35:08,096

visually the building of a blockchain.

:

01:35:08,126 --> 01:35:09,956

I go, this, you watch this video.

:

01:35:09,986 --> 01:35:10,746

You have to watch this video.

:

01:35:10,876 --> 01:35:11,626

I don't want to watch this video.

:

01:35:11,666 --> 01:35:17,796

It was, it was, it was, it

was so maddening as a parent.

:

01:35:18,050 --> 01:35:23,151

To, to, to go through that, but if

you, you know, you fast forward, he's

:

01:35:23,151 --> 01:35:24,601

a more technical one in the family.

:

01:35:24,601 --> 01:35:28,251

He actually is the one when you, on the

website, there's a, an explainer video.

:

01:35:28,341 --> 01:35:32,921

I know people want to learn by, by doing

the, the one that I had the argument

:

01:35:32,921 --> 01:35:36,921

with is the one that did the animation on

the ultimately on the how to play video.

:

01:35:37,300 --> 01:35:39,831

So we've, we've come forward.

:

01:35:40,591 --> 01:35:42,130

Yeah, it's a labor of love.

:

01:35:43,281 --> 01:35:46,630

But, but I'm ha I am grateful that

now I can have those conversations

:

01:35:46,630 --> 01:35:50,071

with the kids that without the game

I wouldn't have been able to, so.

:

01:35:50,841 --> 01:35:52,501

Well, you can see it in the final product.

:

01:35:52,561 --> 01:35:54,511

There was a lot of love

that went into it, clearly.

:

01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,281

And a lot of care and thought.

:

01:35:56,901 --> 01:36:03,706

Um, I mean, Scott asked me for my

feedback, but he also told me After he

:

01:36:03,706 --> 01:36:07,186

asked me for his feedback that he had

already made 500 versions of the game.

:

01:36:07,346 --> 01:36:09,925

So, um, I'm glad you nailed it.

:

01:36:11,476 --> 01:36:12,466

There could be an addition too.

:

01:36:13,536 --> 01:36:17,696

I told Scott that for his future games,

I expect to be brought into the feedback

:

01:36:17,696 --> 01:36:19,906

process before the game is ready.

:

01:36:19,906 --> 01:36:23,966

I will say publicly, I commit to

bringing you things ahead of time.

:

01:36:23,966 --> 01:36:30,691

No, but yeah, you, uh, yeah, I can't speak

highly enough of this game and, uh, The

:

01:36:30,691 --> 01:36:34,021

freaks, the audience should, you guys

should consider going out and buying it.

:

01:36:34,050 --> 01:36:37,161

You can pay with Bitcoin, like I said,

or credit card free market, kids.

:

01:36:37,341 --> 01:36:37,811

com.

:

01:36:38,300 --> 01:36:42,356

Um, I joke about it being printed,

but there will be, you know,

:

01:36:42,696 --> 01:36:45,236

follow on versions of the game,

different versions and stuff.

:

01:36:45,236 --> 01:36:48,546

So, Scott is happy to, he

would love feedback, right?

:

01:36:48,906 --> 01:36:50,046

I love feedback.

:

01:36:50,046 --> 01:36:53,046

He took the feedback very

well, that I gave him.

:

01:36:53,656 --> 01:36:55,806

That's actually in the book, if

I can interrupt you real quick.

:

01:36:55,806 --> 01:36:59,425

I actually write saying, hey listen,

if something's not right in this

:

01:36:59,616 --> 01:37:04,511

book, I own it, but this is sort

of like open source learning.

:

01:37:04,901 --> 01:37:05,201

Right.

:

01:37:05,201 --> 01:37:08,341

I, my ask is tell me where I got it wrong.

:

01:37:08,351 --> 01:37:08,541

Right.

:

01:37:08,541 --> 01:37:11,331

There'll be V2s of the

book and digital versions.

:

01:37:11,331 --> 01:37:13,141

And yeah, cause I want to get

better and I want to give up.

:

01:37:13,766 --> 01:37:14,486

Good information.

:

01:37:14,486 --> 01:37:18,585

So I really, really do

welcome advice and feedback.

:

01:37:19,346 --> 01:37:21,566

And, uh, if you go to Bitcoinpark.

:

01:37:21,616 --> 01:37:28,755

co and join our meetup group, you will

get notified when we do the game nights.

:

01:37:28,755 --> 01:37:30,835

There's going to be multiple

game nights at Bitcoin Park

:

01:37:30,835 --> 01:37:32,106

that I'm looking forward to.

:

01:37:34,851 --> 01:37:35,421

What else?

:

01:37:35,791 --> 01:37:36,491

P is going to play.

:

01:37:37,001 --> 01:37:38,731

P is going to play, I will.

:

01:37:39,241 --> 01:37:41,441

We're going to lock him in a room and tell

him he can't have dinner until he plays.

:

01:37:42,351 --> 01:37:44,791

Based on his own strategy with

his family that he disclosed.

:

01:37:44,791 --> 01:37:46,421

I tell you, watch out when

you play against Matt.

:

01:37:46,421 --> 01:37:48,781

I'm excited.

:

01:37:49,411 --> 01:37:52,431

And I can't believe he beat you at your

own game, which is a measure in my mind.

:

01:37:52,441 --> 01:37:55,210

Never got, I've never gotten to

play a founder at his own game too.

:

01:37:55,221 --> 01:38:00,335

That was, yeah, I was, I was actually,

when we, Thought about doing the podcast.

:

01:38:00,366 --> 01:38:02,366

I was like, how long before this comes up?

:

01:38:03,616 --> 01:38:05,306

And it was very proud of it.

:

01:38:05,556 --> 01:38:10,606

I'm more proud of the fact that I caught,

so like the way it works is there's a

:

01:38:10,606 --> 01:38:17,226

difficulty adjustment and, um, and you

draw cards and like the number on your

:

01:38:17,226 --> 01:38:22,661

cards, whether or not you collect Bitcoin

or not is based on, um, If, if the

:

01:38:22,661 --> 01:38:26,380

numbers add up to under the difficulty

adjustment, it's a really cool mechanism.

:

01:38:27,011 --> 01:38:31,171

And, uh, Scott put his cards on the

table and then went to grab some Bitcoin.

:

01:38:31,171 --> 01:38:34,471

And I was like, I was like, Scott,

that, that doesn't add up to

:

01:38:34,471 --> 01:38:37,701

below the, he literally tried to

grab some Bitcoin from the board.

:

01:38:37,701 --> 01:38:39,241

Tried to pull one over on you.

:

01:38:39,241 --> 01:38:39,821

I caught him.

:

01:38:40,246 --> 01:38:41,734

I caught him, so don't trust Verify.

:

01:38:41,734 --> 01:38:42,916

Don't trust Verify.

:

01:38:42,986 --> 01:38:44,456

That is better than beating him.

:

01:38:44,496 --> 01:38:45,596

That is so much better.

:

01:38:45,606 --> 01:38:48,886

That I, that I was actually, there

was proof in the pudding that

:

01:38:48,886 --> 01:38:51,766

I was paying attention, I was

completely competitive, and I was

:

01:38:51,776 --> 01:38:53,266

not gonna let him get away with it.

:

01:38:53,716 --> 01:38:55,876

I also, like, I just think it's

such a ringing endorsement.

:

01:38:55,876 --> 01:38:58,326

I mean, people come up to you and want

to talk to you about Bitcoin and the

:

01:38:58,326 --> 01:38:59,706

products they're making all the time.

:

01:38:59,706 --> 01:39:01,996

So for this to be the game that

you're like, this is the best

:

01:39:01,996 --> 01:39:03,376

one, I mean, you must have played.

:

01:39:03,376 --> 01:39:04,496

It's the best one so far.

:

01:39:04,566 --> 01:39:04,826

Oh.

:

01:39:05,416 --> 01:39:08,036

It's a challenge to the audience and

to Scott to build even better ones.

:

01:39:08,066 --> 01:39:08,656

Gotta build more.

:

01:39:08,956 --> 01:39:10,085

You should make a shitcoin version.

:

01:39:10,166 --> 01:39:11,816

That's like, this is

why everything's broken.

:

01:39:11,886 --> 01:39:14,335

There, there, you, you joke about

that, but I actually had some

:

01:39:14,726 --> 01:39:16,126

ideas, so you and I should talk.

:

01:39:16,486 --> 01:39:18,186

I mean, I think it could, I

think it could be interesting.

:

01:39:18,186 --> 01:39:21,106

Like, here's why you never want

to fuck with any of this nonsense.

:

01:39:21,106 --> 01:39:22,306

FTX, the game.

:

01:39:22,356 --> 01:39:25,456

No, no, I mean, like, I don't know, I

think, or like, Just everyone gets rug

:

01:39:25,456 --> 01:39:26,716

pulled, there's no winning the game.

:

01:39:26,846 --> 01:39:27,526

No, that's what I mean.

:

01:39:27,556 --> 01:39:30,046

Or like, like a modification that

you could buy, where like, it

:

01:39:30,046 --> 01:39:32,776

like, adds on to the existing game,

and then the only answer is like,

:

01:39:32,816 --> 01:39:34,126

SBF steals, steals everything.

:

01:39:35,646 --> 01:39:37,116

And then he goes losing a

mansion in a couple more days.

:

01:39:37,425 --> 01:39:37,736

Yeah.

:

01:39:39,066 --> 01:39:42,166

Um, this has been, this

has been fantastic.

:

01:39:42,166 --> 01:39:44,066

I appreciate, I appreciate you all.

:

01:39:44,246 --> 01:39:47,616

And, um, this has been a

really great conversation.

:

01:39:48,276 --> 01:39:53,786

Uh, before, before we wrap up here,

I'd like to finish with final thoughts.

:

01:39:54,826 --> 01:39:58,585

Um, final thoughts, Scott, hit us.

:

01:39:58,846 --> 01:40:03,186

Uh, the thing that's on my mind is just,

is just, I go back to the, the gratitude.

:

01:40:03,206 --> 01:40:05,776

I, it's really difficult

to put into words.

:

01:40:06,571 --> 01:40:10,261

Like how much I think you, what you

guys are building here, like, I don't,

:

01:40:10,981 --> 01:40:13,981

I really, I do, I actually struggle

with trying to, to express that.

:

01:40:14,041 --> 01:40:18,451

And, um, when I tell others saying, you

know, or I told you about the Lexington

:

01:40:18,451 --> 01:40:22,880

meetup and other things, I'm like,

you guys have to get to Bitcoin Park.

:

01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:23,741

You have to get there.

:

01:40:23,741 --> 01:40:29,931

And I'm trying to get other friends that

live in faraway places to join as well.

:

01:40:30,491 --> 01:40:34,901

Um, I'm just, I just, it's, it's

really amazing and if anybody hasn't

:

01:40:34,906 --> 01:40:38,261

been like, it's until you experience

it, I don't think you get it.

:

01:40:38,261 --> 01:40:45,901

And for you guys, I think, um, you,

you have, you have access to a lot

:

01:40:45,901 --> 01:40:50,880

of other people who already get it

when you're, when you're, you know,

:

01:40:50,941 --> 01:40:54,701

in your, on your own, in the, on a,

with your family or your friends,

:

01:40:54,761 --> 01:40:56,261

you're like on an, on an island.

:

01:40:56,651 --> 01:41:01,001

And there's just something about

being able to be around people

:

01:41:01,001 --> 01:41:02,866

who, who, um, who kind of.

:

01:41:03,441 --> 01:41:04,591

Get it as well.

:

01:41:04,731 --> 01:41:08,941

And so I just, I just, and my final

thought is just amazing gratitude for

:

01:41:08,941 --> 01:41:10,471

what you guys are, are building here.

:

01:41:11,421 --> 01:41:11,951

Thanks Scott.

:

01:41:11,951 --> 01:41:15,611

This is a really special

place, really special.

:

01:41:16,191 --> 01:41:17,771

There's such a wonderful vibe here.

:

01:41:18,300 --> 01:41:22,041

And everybody here is

here to learn and share.

:

01:41:22,681 --> 01:41:24,251

And that's really, really amazing.

:

01:41:24,251 --> 01:41:29,056

I wanted to just tell your audience if

anybody's thinking about homeschooling.

:

01:41:30,106 --> 01:41:30,906

Don't be afraid.

:

01:41:31,386 --> 01:41:33,026

There are so many resources out there.

:

01:41:33,516 --> 01:41:38,706

And if any of you have

questions, um, at freemarketkids.

:

01:41:38,706 --> 01:41:41,036

com, there's a contact

us button on the bottom.

:

01:41:41,126 --> 01:41:42,066

Shoot me an email.

:

01:41:42,486 --> 01:41:45,916

I am so happy to answer any questions

that anybody has about homeschooling.

:

01:41:46,296 --> 01:41:47,005

That's my part.

:

01:41:47,386 --> 01:41:48,356

That's my specialty.

:

01:41:48,925 --> 01:41:49,466

So, yeah.

:

01:41:49,696 --> 01:41:50,996

Self custody or education.

:

01:41:50,996 --> 01:41:51,675

Awesome.

:

01:41:52,596 --> 01:41:53,496

Well, thank you both.

:

01:41:53,656 --> 01:41:57,376

And I guess if, if you're a web

dev out there listening to like

:

01:41:57,376 --> 01:41:59,976

hit that contact form, it sounds

like Scott could use some help.

:

01:42:01,566 --> 01:42:04,186

I've proved how little technical skills.

:

01:42:04,246 --> 01:42:05,726

You got Bitcoin support up there.

:

01:42:06,106 --> 01:42:09,126

We explained, we explained to Scott

before the show started how to

:

01:42:09,206 --> 01:42:10,736

click retweet on the live stream.

:

01:42:10,736 --> 01:42:11,066

So.

:

01:42:11,846 --> 01:42:13,476

Um, we're getting there.

:

01:42:14,186 --> 01:42:15,416

Um, I want to thank you both.

:

01:42:15,416 --> 01:42:16,516

Thank you for coming.

:

01:42:16,646 --> 01:42:17,746

Thank you for joining.

:

01:42:18,486 --> 01:42:19,175

Thank you, Matt.

:

01:42:19,346 --> 01:42:20,416

Thank you for being you.

:

01:42:20,416 --> 01:42:23,026

And it's just been a pleasure to meet

you guys and get to know you guys.

:

01:42:23,026 --> 01:42:28,986

And, and I look forward to, uh, this

relationship blossoming over the Over

:

01:42:28,986 --> 01:42:32,476

the future, we have to give, we have to

give P final thoughts, P final thoughts.

:

01:42:32,626 --> 01:42:37,925

Oh, I just, uh, we talk a lot about

taking radical personal responsibility.

:

01:42:38,276 --> 01:42:40,516

You just said huddle, you know, I

think you said huddle your education.

:

01:42:40,536 --> 01:42:43,546

I think that it's really awesome

to have a conversation with

:

01:42:43,556 --> 01:42:46,085

people who have taken that idea.

:

01:42:46,116 --> 01:42:49,916

We talk about it a lot with regard to

finance and I love the idea of extending

:

01:42:49,916 --> 01:42:51,696

that to multiple areas of your life.

:

01:42:52,046 --> 01:42:54,796

And I can't think of a more

important one than how you

:

01:42:54,826 --> 01:42:56,206

choose to educate your children.

:

01:42:56,216 --> 01:43:02,026

So I would love to see even more people

Taking radical personal responsibility

:

01:43:02,036 --> 01:43:03,996

for major aspects of their life.

:

01:43:05,146 --> 01:43:05,406

Yeah.

:

01:43:05,526 --> 01:43:06,126

Awesome.

:

01:43:06,476 --> 01:43:08,886

Well, thank you freaks for joining us.

:

01:43:09,286 --> 01:43:09,746

Thank you.

:

01:43:09,766 --> 01:43:13,296

Huge shout out to the freaks who joined

us short notice in the live chat.

:

01:43:13,726 --> 01:43:18,286

RDBTC, Bitcoin, uh, who else joined us?

:

01:43:19,016 --> 01:43:21,085

There was few, but there was dozens of us.

:

01:43:21,085 --> 01:43:21,816

It was great.

:

01:43:21,966 --> 01:43:24,096

Uh, Max Trotter, Jay pleb.

:

01:43:24,096 --> 01:43:25,326

Thank you guys for joining us.

:

01:43:25,696 --> 01:43:28,126

Huge shout out to the freaks who

continue to support the show.

:

01:43:28,886 --> 01:43:30,026

We don't have ads.

:

01:43:30,776 --> 01:43:34,196

So our sponsors can't rug you by

design because you are the sponsors.

:

01:43:34,246 --> 01:43:37,266

So thank you for supporting the show

with your sats, with your Bitcoin.

:

01:43:37,666 --> 01:43:39,246

All the links are at sealedispatch.

:

01:43:39,286 --> 01:43:41,776

com, available on all podcast apps.

:

01:43:41,835 --> 01:43:44,496

Once again, this is going to be

a very big week for Dispatch.

:

01:43:45,096 --> 01:43:48,726

Um, got some great conversations lined

up and also have some conversations

:

01:43:48,726 --> 01:43:51,546

that will probably be on Dispatch

that I'm not expecting yet.

:

01:43:51,556 --> 01:43:53,476

So I'm excited for that.

:

01:43:53,856 --> 01:43:56,526

Um, if any of you are in the

Nashville area, consider coming

:

01:43:56,526 --> 01:43:58,066

down to Bitcoin Park this week.

:

01:43:58,596 --> 01:44:02,675

Um, or even if you're three to five hours

away, just jump in the car, drive down.

:

01:44:03,216 --> 01:44:04,076

More the merrier.

:

01:44:04,085 --> 01:44:04,886

We'd love to meet you.

:

01:44:04,916 --> 01:44:05,835

We'd love to see you.

:

01:44:06,616 --> 01:44:10,016

And, uh, yeah, appreciate you, Phreak.

:

01:44:10,026 --> 01:44:11,085

Stay humble, stack sets.

:

01:44:11,335 --> 01:44:11,726

Cheers.

:

01:44:11,866 --> 01:44:12,416

Thanks, guys.

:

01:44:12,706 --> 01:44:13,005

Thank you.

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