In this informative and heartfelt episode, you’ll hear from Heather Hester, proud mom of 4 children and advocate and ally for the LGBTQIA+ community. Heather’s son came out as gay 6 years ago and at that time she searched for resources, only to find very few. Little by little, he started out compiling her own, blogged about her experiences, and started a podcast called Just Breathe: Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen. We talk about the ups and downs of parenting through both the adults’ process and the child’s process, knowing each young person is unique. Themes of self care and conscious parenting are interwoven. Please share with a friend who may need to hear these messages or a family in need of resources.

EPISODE TAKEAWAYS (what you’ll learn):

• Heather’s original desire to design resources that didn’t exist
• The importance of finding reliable and updated sources of information
• The best things parents can do for themselves in their journey
• The 4 Pillars of Heather’s work: Embrace, Educate, Empower & Love
• Heather shares her favorite resources

Shared Resources:

PFLAG: https://pflag.org/

The Trevor Project: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/

About the Guest:

Heather Hester is the founder of Chrysalis Mama which provides support and education to parents and allies of LGBTQIA adolescents, teenagers, and young adults. She is also the creator and host of the podcast Just Breathe: Parenting your LGBTQ Teen. As an advocate and coach for parents and allies, she believes the coming out process is equal parts beautiful and messy. She also works with companies’ DEI initiatives to educate and empower their employees. She is a writer, married to her best friend 27 years, the mother of four extraordinary kids (three of whom are LGBTQIA), and a student of life who believes in being authentic and embracing the messiness.

Links:

Website: www.chrysalismama.com

Podcast: https://feeds.captivate.fm/just-breathe-parenting/

Facebook, Instagram and Twitter

Email: hh@chrysalismama.com

About the Host:

Maureen Spielman is the Founder of Mystical Sisterhood, a podcast dedicated to bringing more joy, healing and expansion to the world. She is a seasoned life coach who supports individuals through one-on-one coaching, groups and workshops.

Connect with Maureen:

● Check out her Instagram: @maureeenspielman

● Learn more about her work at www.maureenspielman.com

● Want to join our Mystical Sisterhood Membership community? Find out more here: https://www.maureenspielman.com/mysticalsisterhood

● Email Maureen at hello@maureenspielman.com to inquire about coaching, podcasting & speaking engagements

● Want to view Mystical Sisterhood episodes? Visit the Mystical Sisterhood YouTube Channel here: Magical Sisterhood Youtube

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This week join me in welcoming Heather Hester

founder of Chrysalis mama and the podcast. Just breathe

parenting your LGBTQ teen. When Heather son came out as gay six

years ago, she couldn't find reliable resources. So she went

above and beyond, and she started collecting her own. Her

commitment and passion has grown through the years, and she uses

her voice to educate the LGBTQIA plus community and their

families. Don't miss this episode. Heather has a lot of

wisdom and valuable information to share. And please share this

with your friends and family or anyone who could benefit from

knowing how there's work. Let's go to the episode.

Hey there, welcome to mystical sisterhood. This is your host,

Maureen Spielman. I started the show to highlight the

intuitives, healers and other courageous women that I've met

along my journey and continue to meet. Through amazing

interviews, I seek to ask insightful questions to uncover

ways in which you the listener can apply the wisdom and

knowledge to your own life. I believe that we're all in this

together. So sharing healing and joy, and bringing community

together is both my passion and purpose. If you'd like to learn

more about the mystical sisterhood community I'm

building, please visit www mystical sisterhood.com See you

in the episode.

Okay, welcome back to mystical sisterhood. This is Maureen. And

I'm with Heather Hester today. And I did a little intro and

Heather, but she's the founder of Chrysalis mama, and the

podcast, just breathe parenting your LGBTQ teen. And we met

only virtually so far, but through someone who thought that

we would go well together. And and. And I think that you gave

me my podcast editor. And so I've been following your work.

And I really wanted to have you on today. Because I think you're

just this example of a woman who saw a need in the world. And a

need that you felt because of where you had found yourself in

your life that perhaps could be filled with your voice and your

experience. And then what I know of you is the resources that you

began to pull together in order to support people. But I want to

welcome you and say hi, first of all,

hi, thank you. That's so nice. It's such a

nice, such a nice welcome. And it is always a funny thing to

hear, to hear people say back to you what you do, because I think

that we often think

we get so kind of into what we're doing that we don't

think of it in any way that's not not complimentary, but you

know, it just thank you. That's very kind course. And I it is i

i think that's been one of the most fun things about doing the

podcast is that I'm doing this work in general as meeting

people like you and and just being connected, where people

will say, Okay, you need to meet so and so and then, you know,

like, we met and we totally hit it off. And we actually both

live in we live pretty close to each other, which is really

funny. So someday we have to meet in person. Absolutely. But

just doing work that's very parallel. And in certainly kind

of weaves into

you know, one another. And so thank you so much for

having me. I'm really I'm honored that you asked. You're

welcome. So when I think about the two things you've started

chrysalis, Mama and just breathe. which one came first.

And you want to tell a little bit about this the origin story

of how they came to be. Oh my goodness, yes. Well, geez, I'll

try to make it brief. I didn't never good at the brief part.

But chrysalis mama did come first and

chrysalis mama came out of

a need that I saw need to be filled.

When some my oldest child came out six years ago as gay, and he

struggled and every possible way a kid could struggle. And

really,

there were times that were very, very frightening on the very

beginning parts of our journey. He is my oldest of four kids.

And so I had three younger kids at the time, who were all having

their own experiences of what was going on and how much they

could know and how much we could tell them and

et cetera, et cetera. And, and we were in a very different

place at that time. And the way that we parented and the way

that we saw the world and the way, I mean, in every possible

way you could think of, and so it was a lot of

shifting. I mean, that was one of those moments in your life

where I was definitely, you know, when he said, Mom, I'm

gay. I was like, okay, like, that it is was not even a

question of, oh, my, well, well, it was like, alright, well, we

got to figure this out, we will figure this out. And, and that

was kind of my like, we're gonna do this, I'm gonna figure this

out. And

it was very difficult to find resources. And it was very

difficult to find people to talk to I mean, PFLAG has always been

a wonderful resource, but my husband and I initially, were

not the like, Let's go talk with a lot of other people we don't

know. Right? We were very much like we, we just kind of circled

the wagons, and we're like,

we're dealing with this here, right. And so that was not

really an option for us at the beginning. And so there were not

these, you know, options, there was not information. And it was

very difficult to know what information, of course, you

could Google, but you don't know what's true, like what's real.

And it was very frustrating. And he was, my son was just

spiraling faster than we could keep up with. So it was just

kind of a, you know, a perfect storm of stuff that was going

on.

So about a year, little over a year, maybe 18 months into our

journey, we kind of had this like, place of calm, and he was

stable, and things were good. And we had learned all of this.

And I was like,

no other parent should have to go through this. And I know

there are 1000s of other parents out there that are feeling the

same way, like, what do we do? And, you know, and we're in a

fairly progressive area. So it's not like, we've needed to really

be worried safety wise, a lot of people are not. And that is like

an additional concern, right? And so where can people find

information, when they really can't seek anything outside,

they need to be able to do that with it. And

so I just started, I created crystals, Mama, and that was my

place to dump all of my great resources that I had found along

the way. And I have always been a writer. And so I just started

writing, I'd been kind of keeping journals of things and

writing blogs, and it just kind of came this beautiful place to

it was a creative outlet for me and put this information and

people started responding to it. And I was like, Oh, this is

good. This is actually people actually do need this. Like it's

not inside my head.

Yeah. And that is when I created the podcast, and kind of like

you, you and I were talking about this earlier about how the

idea of having a podcast of doing a podcast was I you know,

it was a gift that wasn't something that I like,

aspired to do or be because that could not be further from my

natural introvert itself.

My husband is the extrovert, not me. And so, but I was like,

Well, this is a really good way to reach more people and to

really let other people know that they are not alone. And

that there is good information and that there are other people

out there that they can connect with. And and that they are

safe, and that they are okay, right where they are and that

you also write all the things.

And the podcast has been such an extraordinary gift. It's three

and a half years old. I mean, which is weird for me to say

that but I've been doing that for years. Right?

And then you know, everything is just kind of grown

from there. So yeah, it is a gift bi Yeah, I know that it is

for your your audience and your listeners because

I think when you were talking about the part

of searching for information, is I think like to go to the

internet to find out because what, uh, you know, you wanted

factual things, but also the emotional part, right, and the

parenting part and like, how do I best and I think for any child

who might be spiraling, that's hard information to find good

information. Yeah. And so there's that piece and then did

did you find that to be true?

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I think it's

very hot, kind of like we were talking about this earlier, too.

It's like the WebMD thing, right? I mean, you can put

something in like this, you know, whatever's going on with

my child, right. And like the 12 most awful things that could

possibly happen. That's what comes up first. Which that's not

what you're looking for. You're looking for, and you're already

in a state of like, you know, whether it's crisis or just like

your wound so tight, that you're, you're stressed out,

you're overwhelmed. You're terrified. Whatever it is.

So yeah, so that was another piece of it, that I wanted to be

able to offer information in a way that people knew that it was

vetted, that it was good that it was accurate. And that they

could, you know, consume it in a safe place. Right? Yeah, I love

that. And

that idea, the other part of what you were

sharing is, I think so often, whatever our child is going

through, it becomes even in the best of support systems, it's a

very isolated journey. Because it's just, it's your own

journey. So it's like pull in the support where you can, and

know that you're going to be dealing with a lot of your own

thoughts, feelings, emotions, because even that name chrysalis

mama, like when, when I think of that name, and then you can tell

me why you chose it. But I think of a chrysalis is

transformation. And that kind of close to one of the reasons you

named your business that 100% Yeah, so you saw yourself

transforming as you went along? Yeah, I did. I did. Because when

I, when I chose that, I mean, we were about, like I said, I think

about 18 months on, you know, kind of into the journey. And

already at that point, so much transformation had occurred. And

just like, you know, eyes being opened, and things we had

learned and ways we had expanded, et cetera, et cetera.

And,

and I had always said, the mana part comes from

the fact that I might, my email had always been mama like

Heather, Heather mama, that was my personal email. And so each

time that I would like, this is like, TMI. But each time I would

get pregnant with another child, I literally started as how their

mama one and now I'm another mom of four. So people would know

that I was pregnant again, because I would change my email.

But I was like, Well, this is kind of perfect. Like, this is

how everyone knows, like, Oh, my personal friends know me this

way. And so it just seemed to make sense that I named my

business that yes, but the chrysalis thing I've always

loved. There's a lot of symbolism to Chrysalis in the

transformation. And I have always loved butterflies. That

has been a personal love of mine. Since I was a little girl,

and, and have a lot of belief and the symbolism of

butterflies, which we could talk so much about, I'm sure.

And then I had thyroid cancer a few years ago, and the thyroid

is actually the shape of a butterfly. Yes. Which is so

interesting. That is so interesting. So it's just all

kind of

the way it was meant to be. Yeah, well, thanks

for sharing all that. And I'm sure that you've gotten the so

comfortable with the vulnerability because it is a

lot I think I had heard somewhere on your podcast that,

you know, you may worry that I am sharing my son's story, but

we, we have full permission to do right. So I'm sure that

privacy issues are a big issue for people. So the fact that

you're that's that bravery, that courage that you had to come

forth, forth and say, and you had that, you know, union with

Him, that was like, okay, mom, and I've another woman I had on

the podcast, Harry Potter with her child, she also they were so

fully like, yes, you can share my stories. And it was such a

beautiful thing.

Well, what I know about your work, because not only just the

the beauty of what you're bringing forth in order to

support people, wherever they are, and wherever they are, on

their journey, whether it's probably even pre coming out to

coming out to every you know, all the stages afterwards. You

know, just if you look around for the listener, if you

recommend it to anyone you know, who is has a child who is coming

out or has come out is

that there are so many different episodes that are educational.

And so that's the other part because I had there I thought

like Oh, I could have you on and just to to also just educate on

different aspects of it. But even in the beginning, I loved

how well just how you named because now I can see your

process a little bit right? That you that it's

started in as nascence, with just doing a few

things, gathering resources during this, but I can see from

where you are now and how you've put structure almost around,

like, what are my principles? I know you talk about the four

pillars of your work. And I don't know, if you want to name

those are kind of say the significance of them. Sure,

sure, yes. So the four pillars are to embrace, which is pretty

self explanatory. But it's, you know, it's kind of double, it's

embracing your child, of course, but it's embracing the process.

It's embracing the information, it's embracing, you know, the,

whatever the situation, if you want to call it that, that

you're in, right. And then the second is educate and education

is so huge, I believe so fully, and the more that we understand

and the more that we have good, accurate information, that that

takes away the fear that takes away the overwhelm that just

being educated then, of course, allows you to empower, be feel

empowered, and to empower your child. And then the last pillar

is love, which is really kind of an all encompassing, but I've

found over time, certainly this was for true for me, but so many

others that we don't really have a

full understanding of love what unconditional love is. And so

really understanding what that means and how to give that and

show that. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful, four pillars.

I don't know, you know, when we think about

the education piece,

I know that you have two beautiful resources. And one I'm

just going to say is, here's my top 10 episodes, I thought that

was pretty cool. To be, you know, just to say like, Hey, if

you want to get a start in listening, here's the ones that

have been most popular. I really liked that you had that. And

that may have come through the beautiful resource you created.

Of tell me the name of it again. And because I did, you know, put

my name on the email to get the resource that you created. And

it was just so beautiful. Oh, thank you is the the language

one. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry, the language of LGBTQ i A

plus. Okay. So yes. All the

of course, that's, again, another

conversation but our answers to questions. But yes, that

actually took me which I giggle took me like six months to put

that together.

Probably because I had like a million things going on. But it

was such an important thing for me to do. I felt so passionate

about that, because that is one of the biggest questions that

all people have not just people who have, you know, kids who are

out or maybe coming out.

But everyone, and that is the number one thing that my friends

asked me all the time, and I finally was like, Okay, I've got

to put this book together. And then I'm sending it to all of

you. Right?

And it's funny, because even the other day, a girlfriend of mine

had read it. And she was just like, I never knew now I totally

understand why, you know, this is, you know why her thing was?

Why you don't say a transgender?

You want to know that before? But yes, oh,

glass, you know? Yes. Yeah. So it's even further reaching than

you'd, but it's shows how essential so it's an e book.

It's and I, I personally can see how it took you six months to

put together because it's beautiful. But it's very

comprehensive with vocabulary. And one of the nicest things

that it says you have a quote in the beginning of it. And it was

something along the lines of You don't need to be perfect. You

don't and

I can't remember the exact quote, but it was just like,

here, this is an educational resource so you can feel

empowered, knowing you're using the right language or you know,

saying things the right way, but also don't be afraid Don't be

you don't have to, because I think that that's what can

happen is that people will stop themselves from from educating

themselves for fear of saying the wrong thing. Right for fear

of not getting it. Right. Right. I really appreciated that you

that you just put that right out there. Absolutely. And I think

that is something that is very, very important because I know

you know, everyone has run into someone who or maybe not

everyone but many have run into someone who's who has gotten

upset because we used a word right

wrong, or we didn't, you know, something we

didn't quite understand something and asked a question.

And that that is going to happen. But most people, and the

LGBTQIA plus community are happy to explain, are happy when you,

you know, when you try, there's such a gift in that trying. And

they recognize that right? You know, my kids was like, Okay

mom, you know, where to go waited use the pronoun, right?

Or, you know, just all of those things, or,

you know, and I'm kind of constantly checking in with

them, like, this is how, what I understand this to me, and I

mean, they were a huge help me writing that because, you know,

as we all know, language is constantly shifting, shifting,

which I say that in there as well. But this is a really good,

basic, even with language shifting. This gives a ton of,

you know, things that are not going to change, it will just be

built upon. Yeah, yeah. It's a beautiful resource. And then,

you know, I want to ask you some things about processes, but I'm

also thinking, how much have you see this landscape change? Since

you started the work? You started X amount of years ago,

and there weren't resources? Are you seeing it change that, that

better resources are becoming available things that you even

turn to more often? Absolutely, I think I look at the books that

I kind of started with, and the websites now, some of those

websites are still my go twos, like the Trevor Project, I love,

love, love the Trevor Project.

And

just because they're so comprehensive, they have, you

know, resources, they have acute resources, they have great

spaces for kids to go.

And so I just, I love them.

But I have seen more pop up, right? So there's, there are

more independent, smaller websites that have popped up,

and, you know, more books on the market that just were not

available six years ago. So it's it is really, it's really so

good, especially when you do look around and you see what is

going on that I'm so grateful that this information is

available, and that it just helps people stay strong. And to

hang in there, right.

Yeah, yeah, it's such a gift to the world.

Yeah, I was thinking about even, you know, going back to any

parents that might be listening out there, or, you know, loved

ones that, you know, you talk about in the beginning how it is

a process and how it first I don't know what you kind of

looked at first, if you looked at the process of what the

parent goes through

with their child, or if you first looked at what a child

goes through, but I loved how you have both processes to kind

of, I don't know if you'd say normalize, but just to kind of

give a roadmap of almost like a what to expect, right? And it

kind of is what to expect when your child is gay. That's right.

Your child comes out? Yes, it is. So I first did

the,

the pride the coming out process for your child, because that's

kind of that I remember actually the person who shared that with

me, and I was like, wow, I mean, it was a game changer.

Just because like you said, that's what it is. It's a

roadmap and it's not linear. It's every person is so

different, but it does give a lot of context and understanding

to like, oh, okay, this is what they're going through,

especially if it is a you know, your child is a teenager who in

typical development is not going to share with you all of the

inner workings, right? So it is it is so helpful.

And knowing those things and then the coming out process for

parents is something I kind of pieced together but I'm like, we

all we have our own coming out process like everyone, right of

just how how we process it, how we learn how we everything. So I

think that is you know, to, to your work to what you do. This

is part of the whole how do we connect with our kids, right?

How do we become more conscious? Parents? Well, it's doing our

own work, and doing our own work on our own time. Not on there.

It's like that's something that's really important to me,

is that your stuff your process is not your child's

So, yeah. And so as a parent, going through

guiding your child,

what is the best thing parents can do for themselves in your

experience,

taking that time to do the work to and to learn.

Whether and it's everybody learns differently, everybody is

kind of whether you like podcasts, or books or websites,

or whatever it is, there is now something out there for you

something, it might be just a little bit, but there's enough

that is accurate and helpful to the point where you will feel

supported. And I think that's such a big thing is finding what

helps support you because then you are better able to support

your child and give them their space to have their process

because

their process is very different than ours. And

by the time that they let us in and share with us, they've been

in their process for a while already. Yeah. So yeah, so

honoring of yourself, and then their space, too. Yeah, I think

that I see a theme in your podcast as well. And I know you

said about your, your son is that just like deep respect for

just this whole field of mental health and, and, you know, just

opening that up. And really, because that we're we are in a

time, where we just know the importance of it. So I remember

you saying that, especially since you just named it as well.

But the teenage years, the frontal lobe is still

developing, there's the risk taking behaviors, they're going

to be quiet, or they might not share everything with us. But

you know, getting your child the support they need. And

in sometimes can you say even from your experience, or, you

know, people you've known is sometimes the child even recipt

young person resistant to getting that outside help? And

oh, you know, is that like a practice of patience and

perseverance as well? It absolutely is. Because there's

still enough of a stigma out there where kids are like, Well,

what's wrong with me? Right? I'm embarrassed. What if my friends

find out? Am I broken? That's such a big thing. Oh, I'm doing

this because I need to be fixed. No, you know, that's like, the

biggest thing? No, not at all. You know, it's, it's such a so

the reframing of that is that whatever that professional help

is that you seek it's, it's a tool, right? It's a support

system, and it's to, really to

help on the journey, it's not to fix or be a

band aid or right, learning those tools. So yes, it was

extremely difficult at the beginning. And it's also

difficult to find the right fit. So I liken it to you know,

dating, it's, it's, it's hard, it's really, really hard. And I,

that is the one place where I have stepped in

most definitely with Connor and with my girls as well.

And, and really kind of helps them through the process and,

and really said, Okay, this is, you know, what do you need? What

are you looking for? Okay? This is how we're going to find it.

And we're going to find any Connors therapists who he sees

still who he's seen since he, you know, went to school almost

four years ago now. So his whole college career has been seen the

same guy.

Only because I literally like was such a pain to this guy.

Like I called him. I emailed him. I begged him. I was like

you I don't? You've got to make room for my son. Yeah. So

perfect for him. He needs to be seen by you. Oh, beautiful.

Yeah. And you just had to get in there and be the mama the I get

those. Sometimes you have to do that. Yeah, it's really

important. And your kids will they will come around,

especially once they do have a positive experience, I think is

the biggest thing once they're like, oh, this actually is super

helpful. Yeah. Yeah.

And you've named a couple things, I think.

But I love that episode titled, hey, parents, this is what your

teen wants you to know. I think that's really important to kind

of, I don't know if you couldn't remember the things that they

want you to know. But I would think like one of them is give

me space. I need space.

What else have you found beneficial? Oh my goodness.

That was so that was an episode. That was the

first episode I did with Connor, I think, oh, yeah, if memory if

memory serves, I have not listened to it for a while.

But that I've done, I think, at least four or five episodes with

Connor over time. But that was a fun one, because I think it was

kind of the initial like, I need space. I need you to understand

that when I come out to you. I am sure.

It is something I've been thinking about for a long time.

I am sure. Right? It was kind of the, you know, here are the ways

to ask questions, right? In a way that is either respectful or

respecting brat boundaries. That's a big I mean, that was

another big one that we all had to learn. Was that boundary,

learning how to do that. So yeah, it is it is a fun episode.

It is in my top 10. People do love that episode. So if you're

curious as to what a teenager would like their parents, that

is a good one to listen to. Yes, I apologize. I don't remember

all the things off the top of my head that

honor speaking. So yeah. And I think

that that's a great one to even go to. Because hearing it from

like, out of the mouths of babes is always you know where that

wisdom is going to be coming from? There are straight, they

do not mince words, no, Major. I'm sure you felt this way. But

in the conscious parenting world, it's this the the premise

that our children are our teachers. And woof, sometimes

they call us to task on the things that they're teaching us

and that aid. Okay. I think that's a message. That's good.

It is it is I think it's so important, because that is not

how most of us were wired, to parent or to think, right. We

were wired to think that we are here to teach our children

everything. And, you know,

we don't listen to what they say, essentially.

And I think you flip that right upside down with conscious

parenting. Because Holy cow, the wisdom. Oh, yeah.

Yes. And the humor? I mean, there's a lot of humor that

comes from it.

Absolutely.

Yeah. And I think that

I, oh, I love the quiet. One of the questions you had in there.

I think this is a an important one is how can we respond to

people who are not supportive? Or what you had named, and maybe

named more generally than non affirming people? So if there's

people in our lives that just, they don't handle, you know, the

relationships with respect and

these kinds of things? Like how, how do you

handle that? Or what do you say or? Yeah, right? Well, that is a

tricky one. And I have Yes, I have approached that a couple of

different times, because that's something that everyone deals

with and in some manner.

And there are depending on who you are

dealing with, I do always trying to find a different word, but

you know, for lack of other words, right now.

You have lots of tools, right? You so it's kind of reading the

situation like is it a moment where you can educate, right is

the person that is coming at you someone that you can gently

correct with a actually, this is a better way to say that, or we

do not believe this is a choice, we know for a fact, this is how

our child was born. And we asked you to respect that.

So you have to kind of read like, know your audience,

essentially, right?

If you are, if you know that whomever you are coming, you

know, that is non affirming. You always have the option to set

boundaries, right, this is just something that isn't discussed.

Or if it's, you know, really bad if the person you know, cannot

pull their tongue or curb their behavior, then it's someone that

you just don't see for a time. Right. So it is I mean, it is

hard. It's definitely hard decisions and hard, can be hard.

But it's also you know,

when you really think about it, you know, you think you're

protecting your child, right? So, and you're protecting

yourself, you're protecting your family, this is this is what

we're here to do. And none of that is okay. So, yeah, there

are options, but it's definitely a matter of knowing your

audience for sure.

or, yep. And then I would imagine coming back

as a family and communicating about it. And I find so much

just in the conscious parenting kind of paradigm. And

it's just always applies as I know, it's my work

is just refining the communication. In fact, and

when, when we don't say the right thing, or it doesn't, or

there are things to talk about to not be afraid of them, and to

lean into the discomfort of them, which is not always easy.

It's a process, especially if we grew up in households that

really didn't talk about things. And right, so it's a constant re

education for me. Well, it totally is. And I think some of

these things like you feel in your body, right, you feel it

and you but you haven't yet really articulated it. So when

you are able to come back after something like that happens, and

maybe you feel like you didn't handle it well, or you wish you

would have done something else. And you are able to have that

conversation, or maybe your child's feeling that way. Right?

And you can have that conversation where you can

really talk about it, and a much more calm relaxed, those those

emotions, then you're able to articulate maybe, right? So it's

such a great it is in so many ways such a gift to be able to

do that. And to just be messy. Yeah, just let it be messy.

We are inherently afraid of messiness.

And messy is good, actually. Yeah. Yeah. It's how we kind of

wade through things and get to the other side. Yeah, it's it's

true. I know a lot of people bring up the metaphor of the

lotus,

the lotus flower that grows in the mud. And so beautiful things

can be birthed out of the messy times. Yes. Yeah. For sure.

Yeah. I'm excited about, you know, the work for you to come.

What's on your horizons?

Oh, my goodness.

Well, I have written a book,

which will be published that until a year from June, so it's

a little ways out, we are in the I just sent it off to the

publisher. And it's in that stage right now. But that is a

very exciting thing.

On the on the far horizon, yeah, I have just started doing a lot

more speaking,

which has been,

again, like the podcast, such a lovely surprise that I actually.

So it is just,

I really love just the connecting and the sharing of

information with other people. So it's kind of an extension of

the podcast, but certainly something that is is needed and

people are wanting. So those are, those are my big things.

Yes, congratulations on the book, I was hoping that that was

going to be something that was either in the works or on the

horizon because of everything you've done. And

the speaking engagements are neat, because

through the podcast, through your writing, and then the

podcast, you've been able to hone your voice. And then like I

said, like when you got to the four pillars, and you got to the

processes, and you got you're like, wait a minute, I have

something here, and then all all of the life experience now can

serve the community. It's just kind of amazing how we are. I

mean, I truly feel like in a lot of ways, I'm just a vessel that

I'm not always a fully aware of what is being great, but I'm

just kind of like alright, yeah, that's me. And, and then as you

know, you've done such a beautiful job of really pointing

out all these things. And I'm like, Yeah, wow, I did do that.

But that really wasn't me. It was just, yeah, you're just kind

of the conduit. It feels like way. I mean, that's the way I

feel. And it's an it's work that is desperately needed. And I'm

happy to be that. Yes. And what kind of venues are you speaking

at? Before we've wrap up? Yeah, so I'm doing a little bit

combination of corporate. And so a lot of corporations have

employee resource groups. So doing talks for them and like

little lunch and learns and workshops, which is really fun.

And then

for school districts, so just you know, kind of like an

evening like our again, like an hour workshop talking about just

sharing information. And a lot of it is really fielding

questions. So yes, on to. I will I like highlighting that because

for anyone listening, we've got a lot of people in the Chicago

area, but yeah, where can our listeners find your work? Well,

my website is the best place to go. So the web

site is chrysalis. mama.com. And chrysalis is like the butterfly

chrysalis, but it's ch ry s a l i s, ma ma.com. And that is

really where you can find everything. I've tried to make

that a hub to find all that I do. So the podcast is actually

can be found through the website, as well as any

information on speaking. The e book that you mentioned earlier

is there and all of these good things, so many good things. And

so we'll put those all in the show notes. Yeah, to the

listeners, if you can, go to the website, tap into the podcast

for sure.

And get yourself the booklet because

it's all so resourceful, and just beautiful. And so I have to

thank you so much for being here with me and speaking to this

community to spread your message and to to allow people to know

that you are there as a resource and that you're all in

you. Thank you. Thank you so much. This was a

really, really fun chat. And I appreciate you having me. Yeah,

you're welcome. And thank you to our listeners, and we'll see you

next time.

Thanks for listening to this episode of

mystical sisterhood. If you love what you heard, please visit

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friend if you're called to do so. To learn more about my one

on one coaching programs, or join the mystical sisterhood

membership, visit Maureenspielman.com or

mysticalsisterhood.com Thanks so much. I'll see you in the next episode.