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Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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035: "Let's figure it out.” Social media marketing, the imposter syndrome and failing forward with Jen Amos and Emily Reagan

Holding Down the Fort's Producer and Host Jen Amos had an opportunity to be interviewed in Emily Reagan’s Digital Media Specialist & Virtual Assistant Lab Facebook Group. Jen shares her background in the social media marketing industry before working with her husband, how she works through the imposter syndrome, and mantras on how to fail forward in business.

Join Emily's FREE Facebook Group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/digitalmediava/

Learn more about Emily Reagan and listen to her interview on Holding Down the Fort at https://holdingdownthefortpodcast.com/episode/emily-reagan

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Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome to holding down the fort, a podcast show dedicated to curating knowledge, resources and relevant stories. So military spouses can continue to make confident and informed decisions for their families. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jen amis, a Goldstar, daughter of veterans spouse, and your host for today's show. Let's get started.

Speaker 1 5:33

Going to tackle technology today, we are going to show that you can handle it. Yes. So okay, so I want to jump back in where we were talking Gen telco back to how somebody approached you for social media services, and you just came up with something on the fly?

Jen Amos 5:51

Yeah. So in my early 20s, after college, I sort of after getting fired from for jobs, I had convinced myself that I got into sales, because I thought, at least sales, they won't fire me. It's just dependent on performance. And I wanted to get noticed. So I started joining local networking organizations in San Diego, and I had volunteered my time to be a social media officer, I guess I did really well, because someone approached me and said, Hey, Jen, how much do you charge for your services. And at that time, that was not my business. But I literally stayed up all night, and I came up with a business plan and a company name all in one night. And essentially, I ran that Social Media Marketing Agency for five years. So that's how I got into that. What was your degree. So that's a funny story, too. So going back to being a military child, not knowing how to commit to anything, I changed my major three times. And I eventually settled with a bachelor's degree in journalism media studies with an emphasis in public relations. So in a way people say, Oh, that makes sense, why you got like, why you started your business, because you have a PR background. And I'm here thinking, you know, I didn't pursue the traditional route of becoming a PR person, I thought that I was doing an awful job, or I thought that I wasn't, you know, using my degree correctly. But anyway, that's my background with my degree. And, you know, to this day, especially now that I'm a podcaster, I've just own the fact that your degree doesn't have to set you up for a linear path in your career, you could really make what you want out of your degree. And I have discovered that looking back in the last 10 years now and fully accepting that fact,

Speaker 1 7:30

I love it. So many people ask me, Do you need a degree to do this online and know what I learned? But I don't even know how long ago I graduated. Let's think about that. Almost 20, like 17 years ago, I graduated. But yeah, mine was journalism and electronic media. And it was nothing like today, it's not relevant at all, except for the basic, you know, writing and I don't know, it's just way different. And you don't agree. And that's interesting that you fell into social media, too. That was the first thing somebody asked me to do. Could I read their Facebook for them? And I just said, sure. Yeah. Was something and that was before all the Facebook marketing classes and everything. So yours was too How do you take in a social media class? You know,

Jen Amos 8:15

so you know, I teach kind of a like a unicorn BA and you just set a prime example of that, like, you get your foot in the door doing one thing, and people come to you wanting more and more. And you can choose whether you do that, learn that or want to go that path, maybe you subcontract or you know, refer but it like so much can volunteer lap if you just get your foot in the door. And social media is a great way to get your foot in the door. What were your first clients having you do? Like what were they coming to you struggling with and wanting your help? Oh, man,

networking events I went to I was always typically the youngest person in the room. And so I was surrounded a lot with like baby boomers or Generation X type people. And a lot of these people still let's meet face to face, you know, let's do face to face sales type of, you know, personalities. And so they hired me because they wanted to have an online presence, but they didn't want to manage it. You know, it just felt so impersonal to them. But they understood logically that they needed to be online. And so I would essentially, kind of like a ghost writer would write, you know, bright someone's book, I was sort of that ghost writer for these businesses and making sure that they had a consistent online presence. So the main social media accounts that I manage at the time was Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, a little bit of LinkedIn, but at the time, Facebook was more of the big one. And that was like, yeah, it was like back in 2013. Ish, when like Facebook Live was a big deal. Yeah, you know, everything. Facebook was a big deal. And like, you could still get organic reach on your Facebook pages. So yeah, mainly managing their accounts. And there was a number of ways that I did that. If you want me to elaborate on that.

Yes, I was totally gonna ask that next question, like, walk us through some of the logistics? Or did you have clients who would approve your posts? Like, what did it all look like behind the scenes?

Oh, my goodness, well, it really depended on the client and how hands off or hands on they want it to be. So if I worked with a client that was really hands off, I was big on content calendars. So Google spreadsheets were like my best friend. And what I would do is I would compile the content ahead of time, like I have a long term client, even till this day that I still help them with their Facebook account. And what they do is they become a digital magazine. So at the time, they were local, but then, you know, they had, you know, just things happen, and they have to go digital. And what I would do is essentially pull content from what they already published, you know, from their articles, and from their website and stuff. And I would essentially curate that into the content calendar. Sometimes I pulled third party articles, sometimes I would create content myself, like I would pull the best quotes from their articles or from their videos and make image quotes out of that. So I really wore a lot of hats. I was sort of like this mini social media, like image designer, and then the manager and then the executioner. But the spreadsheets chief, and the G Suite was my best friend. Because, you know, you can share those accounts. And you can have your client comment on it live. Well, most of my clients didn't comment on it, they would actually like call me and say, Hey, can you? Can you like tweak this? But yeah, I use a lot of Google Spreadsheets. canva.com is my best friend in terms of social media images. And lately for me, I also like using if you are editing video and audio together, like audio clips for a video on YouTube, like a podcast show, I like using headliner app, because the two Yes, yeah, so that's a great way to you know, cut up in that way. So Canva headliner, I have so many more like resources. But yeah, a lot of my tools that I used, I made sure that I could take it wherever I went. So like, even if I had to log into someone else's account, computer, I had to make sure that it was like, you know, in the cloud, or I can just log on to Gmail whenever you know, wherever or Canva. So I was always looking for those types of tools, so that they could be mobile wherever I go. And so sometimes a lot of my business too. I just did it on my phone. That's awesome. Yeah. So yeah, that's that's a little bit about how I would do that for my clients. And then eventually, I became more hands off as I started to work with a virtual assistant to help me execute some things and also contract other people. So you

were totally a unicorn, like doing it off. And I liked that you actually implemented it, but you had the strategic brain and the high level knowledge of what to do with the strategy. So dev asks, How much time did it take you to curate a week's worth of content? Do you remember?

You know, actually, I'll say it took me a weekend to do a month's worth of content. Okay, no, so sometimes, I mean, if you know your clients mess During, and you know where to pull resources from content from, you could really knock it out in like, a weekend. And so. So yeah, it really depends like if they already have content made. Now if I have to make it from scratch, it takes a little bit longer to do that. So I can't give you like a timeframe on that. But I know that the time, when I started to have more clients, I really needed to be more efficient. And so I had to, you know, really commit to the beginning of the month, or even toward the end of the month, to set up content for the following month. Yeah, so and I had to make sure I was like, Okay, I'm gonna dedicate this whole day to do it for this client. And initially, it takes a while when you're getting started. But once you find that rhythm, it's you could do it really quickly. And on top of that, you can also reuse some of the old content. So there you go,

the algorithm only shows what like less than 10% the feeds. So if you have something that did really well, for a client six months ago, or however long ago, you can bring it back at another day and another time, and it will be shown to a new audience. So yeah, it's a great resource for coming up with content. I know for me, it takes about I estimate, and I teach my students probably about 90 minutes to about two hours for a week's worth of Facebook post. And I think that kind of adds up. Because if you were doing four weeks, that would be about eight hours. But again, it depends if your clients have things organized, if they're producing their own content, or if they're approving the post, you know, I do like at some posts where the clients have things in their own words, like their heartfelt messages and stuff like that. But you do get better at writing in the clients voice and it can go fast, depth shirtless, and start like that.

Yeah, you know, usually when I start for anyone that is interested in, you know, getting into social media, and you have clients, I would propose that they commit to for at least three to six months, like at least because if you do once a month, you're setting yourself up for failure, because you can't provide results in a month, honestly, unless you do paid advertising. But even then you still have to do a series of trial and error to get the right, you know, coffee and stuff like that. So I say that if that's going to be the industry, you're going to be in and you're going to get your own clientele three to six months should be like the bare minimum for them to commit to you.

Yeah. So what did it look like for you when you were doing proposals? And did you do contracts? Like how did you charge your clients and what did you charge him?

At that time? We you know, once again, it kind of depended as well, because when I first started, I definitely undervalued my services. I really did. I used to charge as little as 100 a month to just like, manage like a Facebook account. Yeah, cuz I had no idea. And I thought I was justifying it too. I thought like, Oh, if I do like an hour in a week, and I only charge 20 an hour, then yeah, that makes sense. $100 a month. And I even remember my first client said, like, straight up told me I was undervaluing, you know, myself. And so as time went on, though, I would say that my biggest retainer looking back was like 2500 a month, just to manage like two or three social media accounts. So I felt pretty good about that, I eventually got to a place I was like, You know what, I'm going to add an extra zero at the end and see if people will take it and to my surprise people did. And so that was really cool. It was really interesting to get to a place where I remember my ex boyfriend at the time, he got his, like, first full time job. And at one point, I was making more money than him. And I was working less, you know, less hours than him. And, you know, it was just quite an interesting experience be like, well, like he has to work like, you know, he has to stand on his feet all day. And you know, talk to people all day. And then here I am just working from home, like in my PJs, you know, adding an extra zero to my services, and people are buying it. So oh my gosh, yeah. But you know, and even to this day, I still, I mean, fortunately, I work with my husband and our services that we offer our the pricing is dependent on how much income the client makes, but like back then I really had to know my worth, or at least believe that I was worth, like charging more, you know, because I definitely undervalued my college degree. You know, I undervalued the fact that I did all this trial and error on, you know, on social media for these clients. And I really dealt with the imposter syndrome. Because when I was in college, even though they had told us to create a Twitter account, and to create a blog, I mean, I really had to get to a place where I had to believe in myself or at least, like fake it. In my mind, I had to like kind of almost create, like a different persona to say like, this is the professional Jen, you know, like she knows what she wants, like she's confident, and really just, you know, work. Unfortunately, I had a lot of help throughout the years and community to work through those feelings. And I do want to say that when you initially do get started, it's completely normal to have the imposter syndrome because you're doing something new of course you think so yeah, that's my little spiel on the imposter.

Oh my gosh, I still have it now. And I haven't told you this, but I have signed a couple of clients just to do PR. Yeah. So I totally have impostor syndrome. I think we all do. I mean, I talked to a million dollar business owner yesterday, and she struggles with it at every stage. And if you're not seeing that at every stage, you're not growing and trying new things. And right for me, I just took on a couple clients to do more PR and pitching. And sometimes I'm like, Oh, my God, what am I doing? I don't know if I can promise them results. Like I don't know. I mean, you know, so much of that is out of your control. Yeah. And I struggle with that. Yeah. And yesterday, I was sending a pitch to Forbes. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, what if I can't do it? I'm like, Oh, my God. It's just so silly that we do that. But yeah, it's because I'm doing something new. And I'm playing a bigger game.

Yeah. You know, it's interesting, because I had always thought that the imposter syndrome is kind of like a woman's thing that we tend to experience more than men. But I realized that because even my husband, he'll struggle with the imposter syndrome as well, because he's creating a business from scratch. He's like really pushing this message that no one else in this industry is pushing. And it got me to realize, like, you know, I think in general, like when we all start something new, it's it's natural for us to have that. And I do want to say that I was really thinking about the imposter syndrome, like last week for some reason. So I decided in case anyone is struggling with that right now. YouTube, like TED talks about impostor syndrome, it really helps. Yeah, because the truth is, like, I think the reason why we have that is because we think we have to provide certain results. But if we just focus on the activity of the service more than the results, if you just focus on service, and focus on valuing the best that you can, you don't have to worry so much about that. And I think that yeah, anyway, that's my spiel on that.

I think so many struggle with this. And that's why I'm constantly reminding, especially my students, like business owners are hiring you for a reason, they do not have the capacity to do this. And they just appreciate the mental delegation and getting it off their plate and the fact that you will do it, and you might make mistakes, as long as you own them. And as long as you communicate with them. You are providing such a good service. But we get so trapped into thinking that, Oh, I might not be the best one to do this. I mean, sometimes I have impostor syndrome, because we are writing in a client's voice. And we oh, yeah, we're already the imposter, like pretending to do something or not. But you gotta remember that is a place of service, and you are helping them out. And if they want to pay the $1,000 an hour Facebook manager, they could do that. But you know, they can do for a reason. Yeah. And

I think like they come to you, because a lot of times, they don't have the time or they have, they don't have the mental space to do it. And that's essentially what they're getting, like hiring you for. So knowing that you are going to dedicate the time to do it. And if you're passionate about dedicating the time to do it, like that itself is an asset. And that is something worth marketing. It sounds like I'm preaching this. And I'm like almost saying it to myself, finding yourself, like I'm passionate about this, whether I'm good or not, is not the question. It's that I'm passionate about it. And I want to dedicate the time to it. And it just so happens that these clients don't want to do it. So they'll hire me to do it for them. Yeah.

So Michelle just said that the imposter syndrome is why she doesn't go for more jobs. Now. Michelle is a video editor for her local news. She has a very in demand skill right now, video editing, and I am trying to convince her get in the door with your video editing skills. And next thing you know, you can be taking over more and more with YouTube, IG TV, I mean, so many business owners need that help. And she can get her foot in the door. And it's not about you're an impostor, because you're not a digital marketing consultant. But you like you get your foot in the door with what you're good at. And you learn from that, just like Jen did with social media, like there's nothing wrong with that. Go for it. Michelle.

Yeah. And Michelle, I want to add that, I mean, it sounds like you already have this amazing skill set. But it you know, maybe one way to build your confidence is to maybe provide like your service for free at first, do a very minimal, like editing for someone, and then ask them for a testimonial. Because sometimes if you don't believe in yourself, you have to buy into other people's belief in you. Yeah. And that's what I had to do. Like, I mean, when I had the courage to ask my clients back then for testimonials, I kept those testimonials with me, because sometimes when I felt like I didn't know what the heck I was doing, I would read those testimonials and be reminded, oh, my clients like me because I'm committed to them, because I give them my undivided attention because I asked very thorough questions, because I map out what I'm going to do for them, you know, and so that's what I recommend is like, if you don't have the belief in yourself first to buy the belief in other people and the way to do that is to get testimonials. And sometimes you can do that by providing your service for free or you And asking past clientele or people that you've worked with like hey, what do you like about me? What do you think I'm good at? Like what what am I most known for? And really like put that in your journal or put that on a post it next to your computer and be reminded that this is how people believe in you and you can use that, you know, for yourself, you know, to boost confidence. So I hope that helps Michelle.

I think it does. And Michelle it too. If you are editing the video, offer the next step for free like offer to put it on YouTube and optimize it on YouTube offer to get it on IG TV and start expanding your knowledge of those platforms and then you'll be confident too so I was at the copywriters in real life conference right before Corona shut down everything. Oh, boy. Yeah. And there were so many copywriters there who have like $50,000 contracts to do sale, like single sales page or whatever, for these companies and seven figure entrepreneurs, I just felt like so out of place. But yeah, I knew I was with my people like the behind the scenes, people who do the work. And they're smart, and they're funny. But I'm like, oh, here I am charging hourly. But a couple of them talked about this. And they had a folder, like a wind folder, or an I Love Me folder where they could go and kind of give themselves a pep talk with us that you're talking about because sometimes they would get stuck writing, like, Can I do this? Oh, my God, I just got this contract, can I do it? And they would, you know, into the folder, read some successes and like pump themselves up. So that's kind of a cool trick, too.

Yeah. I think also, the final thing I want to say about the imposter syndrome is when you realize that everyone else has it. It's not so bad. Like you think oh, like, you know, it's part of why I've grown so comfortable being in front of the camera or just like doing podcasting because it's like, it's not even about me, like no one knows that I feel like a fraud. Like if I just focus like being of service to people and being present with people. And you know, preparing like preparing like was talking with the proposals and the content calendars, and you know, mapping out all those things for the client, if you just focus on that, like that itself almost eradicate, I mean, it may not ever go away, the feeling may not ever go away, but you could at least like minimize it or work through it. Yeah, those with those steps. So yeah, the suggestions

are so right. So I want to get into your podcast. And that came about and what that's like for you and where you're going with it. Just FYI, I teach podcasting, like how to help, you know, clients like yourself, on the back end inside my work group. So we go over Lisbon, and headliner and some of the things you were talking about a lot of a lot of podcasters need help, because a lot of work. So just give us some insight into how that looks for you.

Sure. Well, I'm a baby podcaster. I started last summer, almost a year ago now. And I actually started because I was really struggling with loneliness and depression. So my husband and I, we had moved to the East Coast almost two, three years ago now. And I started over, you know, part of why I say that I did this with my social media agencies, because I left it behind when I moved. And my husband had already flown out here a number of times to make connections. And so by the time I came here, he was already like up and running. And I'm here trying to do this whole mental, emotional, physical transition, you know, settling into a new place, and really trying to rediscover myself. And I think at that time, I knew for a while I always wanted to do podcasting. And my husband, he gets featured on like a million things we call him like the dog and pony show for. So I won't even mention his name unless you're interested.

Because this is not about him. No, it's not

about me right now. But anyway, he was actually asked to, you know, be interviewed on this podcast, and this guy was having technical difficulties. So he had proposed that he dial in through this program. And it turned out that this program was one of the easiest ways to start podcasting. I won't mention the name because I'm not using that program anymore. But that was the catalyst for me to be like, Oh my gosh, like, like, you know, I didn't know anyone locally. And our car barely worked. So I really felt like I was becoming like stir crazy at home. But I also needed to find a way to build some kind of social life. And I had moved so many times in just the last handful years where I just really convinced myself and you know, given my background to as a military child, I had convinced myself that I needed to build something online. And so I somehow knew in that moment, when I heard about this program, that podcasting was going to be my way to like, fix everything to fix my loneliness to fix your depression, to fix my you know, lack of community. And, you know, fast forward today my shows, because I have a couple. They collectively almost have I think 17,000 downloads with like barely any marketing to it. Like I'm more focused on doing the interviews than I am with marketing it but like people share it. If people share it. People want to listen to Do it. And so the show that I focus on for my business with my husband is called holding down the fort. And it's a podcast show that's dedicated to military spouses and families, I essentially curate knowledge, resources and stories for military families so that they can better hold down the fort, make their lives easier, because as we know, many of us that are in the military community, with every PCs, you have to establish a new normal, and it's like a scavenger hunt every single time trying to figure out like, okay, who's gonna be my emergency contact? Who's gonna, you know, where's the gym? Where are these resources? Like, where are all my resources as a military spouse? And so I thought, what better way to, you know, like, help out the community than to have a show where we bring on people that are in our community, or are serving our community, you know, with these resources. And even if no one listens to the show, I have gotten so much value out of interviewing all these incredible people, even like some of the people I've interviewed, I've even used their services, because it's like, wow, I didn't know that existed, you know? Yeah. So it's a great way to build community. And also, once again, when I started the show, I had the imposter syndrome again, because, you know, my background is I'm a gold star, daughter, military child. And I had met my husband after the service. So I identify as a veteran spouse. So for me, like, I didn't feel like I was in the right place to be serving like active duty military families. But I use the show as a way to do research into studying what is going on in the community today, like what are their needs today. And so in doing that, more and more than with every interview, I eventually was able to find the validation that I needed to just keep running with it. Because there are certain people to you know, come to find the other people, even if they are a military spouse have the imposter syndrome. So going back to that whole Hey, y'all, we all have impostor syndrome. So just own it, just laugh about it. And just do it anyway. Yeah, do it anyway. And so this show wouldn't have been possible. If I held back if I felt like I wasn't qualified enough or experienced enough, because I literally knew nothing about podcasting. I literally knew nothing, literally. And I remember my first initial shows, like I didn't even have like a podcast microphone. Like I didn't, I didn't have the right tools. But in time, I figured that out. And so yeah, it's just been an incredible experience, you know, doing podcasting, and also in that process for anyone that is struggling to find your voice. I've been told this before, and I thought I'd share it with the audience as well. You know, there's a quote that goes, the only way you'll find your voice is if you use it. And yes, amen. Amen. So in talking to people, such as yourself, Emily, and doing all these interviews, like I didn't know I had a story. Remember, I didn't know that I was a gold star daughter. I didn't know any of that stuff. But in talking to people, I was able to learn that and in learning other people's stories, and having them share their vulnerabilities. It made me realize, like, you know, we're all just human. We're all just trying to figure this out together. And we're all trying to figure it out individually. And so we need to realize that we're all going through the same thing, and to just do it together to do it in community. And I've been very fortunate to do that through podcasting, and now doing more interviews like this. So So Thanks for the opportunity, Emily.

Yeah, oh, my gosh, I love this so much. And I can so agree with you. I didn't think I had a voice or anything to share. I'm always behind the scenes helping everybody else. And 18 months ago, or so almost two years ago, I had this idea, but I'm like, I don't have anything to say, yeah, it took 18 months of me getting on Facebook Lives and writing blogs and just talking to my people to realize, Oh, my God, I do have something to say. And I do have a mantra and a message. And it didn't come right away at the beginning of this part of my business. And I think it's just some part of the journey. You have to just, like, do it. You have to get the on the job experience. And then things will come together. And I recently did a rebranding of my website. And it almost made me cry. Because I had to really dig deep and think like, what am I about? And I couldn't have done that. 18 months ago. Yeah. So there's a reason I slapped up a website, two hours on a Saturday night with some wine in my hand. You know, I just was like, just go for it. And then it took a while to flush out and so now my website, have you seen it? It's like super colorful, I'm gonna have to look. Even though I'm not just like glittery, sparkly unicorn person. I'm really more of a tomboy, but I'm embracing that like being okay with it. And my branding is about just being unique and embracing yourself and what you're good at. So oh my gosh, I love that you didn't know anything about podcasting, and you jumped in to do it. And didn't you just tell me you helped somebody set up their podcast too.

Yeah, I did. So this podcast show isn't out yet. But eventually it turned out that we both have the same demographic of people we want to speak to like It's almost like exactly the same demographic. And she's also a really good friend of mine and my husband's and, you know, we are actually trying to help her nonprofit get more exposure. So we thought, hey, you know, you have a powerful voice and you know, some amazing people in the community. And actually, this is my husband's fault. He's the one that convinced her to get casting. He's like, You should totally do podcasting. Oh, you know, Jen knows how to do podcasts. And I was all like, here's Shana. Like, for myself. And but you know, fortunately, and I was very transparent with her. And I think this is important. When you talk to your clients, I said, Hey, I'm just starting out, like, you know, I have done this, this and this, and I'm learning as I go. And if you are completely okay with that, we can figure this out together. And she was 100% on board with that. And so sometimes, like, it's okay to like, it's okay to be transparent. And especially if you get to choose your clients, like, you want to choose the clients that you want to work with, like, if you try to put up this front that you could do it all, then you will definitely like struggle with impostor syndrome. You know, but you know, if you just say, Hey, this is who I am, like, I'm learning as I go, this is what I've done. So far. This is my portfolio. You know, you may get the clients that will say yes, and will give you the grace to, you know, make mistakes and figure it out as you go. So, because remember, they're hiring you because you are committing the time to do it for them. So if you focus on that aspects, then I'm not saying you have to be good. But you know, you don't have to worry about being good enough.

Yeah, there are so many things in my business I have done and maybe only done once, that I told I don't want to say fake it. That's not right. But I just went out and figured out how to do it. And I got that much smarter. And the client appreciated me like, just this week, I was emailing a music company for synchronization rights. Like I've never done that before. I did a book demand proposal, which I had never done that just give me an example. And I'll run with it. And I'll use my brain. And we'll figure it out. And that's what I've said every time. Like, let's figure it out. I have a zillion zillion types of like little piddly tasks that I've done that have added extra my success because I was able to just do it and not not like blow smoke up. Like pretend like I knew what I was doing. But just like you said, being willing to give time. So is that something you want to do as a service? Or is that like a one time thing?

You know, it depends? Yeah, I think because, you know, I'm already busy as it is like, I wear a lot of hats in my business with my husband. And he's already like two handfuls in itself. So I have a lot of my hands. But if it makes sense, you know, if it makes sense, and it's something that I can, you know, back up and stand by, then, you know, I'm open to being hands on. Otherwise, honestly, right now, I've been giving like free podcasting advice, like left and right. But I also have a lot of resources that I can share with people and other Facebook groups that I'm a part of that give all the free podcasting advice. So that's yeah, if that's something you want to get into, I don't have it all on the top of my head, but I'm happy to share that with you, Emily. Yeah, if you want to share that if you want to talk to your audience. But yeah, I feel very fortunate. I literally like put a list together the other day I have I'm like actively part of like six different podcasting groups. Oh, yeah, they all help each other with like, hey, which you know, which logo do you think is better? Or, hey, who can be a guest on my show? Or, Hey, I'm looking to be a guest on someone shows. So it's just this beautiful online community of people just trying to uplift one another and create space for our stories and, and even just, you know, provide those resources to you know, make a successful podcast. Oh, my

gosh, I want him Tell me, tell me Well,

I will email you all of that. But that's usually what I do. If people do come to me for advice as i i almost redirect them to the resources that I've used. A really good one that I will share is on YouTube. If you look up Pat Flynn, I mean, I think everyone knows Pat Flynn at this point.

The people in this group might actually not know him. I haven't talked about him before.

Yeah, Pat Flynn is a big social media influencer. And if you're looking to start podcast, he has a whole YouTube playlist showing you exactly how to start a podcast show. So with the program that I stumbled into last year, combined with the free YouTube videos by Pat Flynn, I was able to start podcasting within a weekend like easily guys.

This should give every one of you ladies and gentleman confidence to just jump in. Jen didn't know what she was doing. She figured it out. Google and YouTube are our friends. And Marie's. Very Lisa, she loves Pat Flynn. Good. So some people do know who he is. Okay, a I can see a future in you doing that because I see so many business owners who need help, and they don't have the capacity to wrap their brain around every thing that needs to be in order, first of all, but we can talk about that later. Do you miss your agency at all? Do you miss that work?

You know, I don't actually and I had considered going back to it because I still have people that like my contractors became my friends. You know, and people asked me, I usually I still refer them over to my friends. But I think like that business served its purpose for me at that time, as I mentioned, like earlier on when I was choppy if you didn't hear it the first time in my life go from four jobs, and I got fired from poor jobs. And I got into sales, because it was like the one thing that would fire me. And when I stumbled into social media, I really felt like I was building it almost out of desperation, rather than inspiration. And so it's really like, in the last handful of years, when, where I've come to a place where I'm doing things because, like, I love it more, and don't get me wrong, the struggle is still very real, you know, like, we're still trying to, I still try to figure out how am I going to, like, pay my bills next month, like, that's still a real thing. Like, I've been in this life for 10 years, but it doesn't mean that I'm wealthy, or I become a millionaire, I just become smart. With my money, I'd become smarter with my sources. And I've just been very comfortable failing forward. And realizing, you know, people, you know, I think the average person, the average person, the average American, I think, is afraid to take chances. And I think I have to give credit to my military background, or my military child background. And, you know, for the fact that, like, I can start over, like, I always know how to start over. So why not make mistakes, because every time I started over, like, it was like, I was able to evolve into something different, you know, I was bald, I was able to evolve into something better. So yeah, do I miss it? I'm gonna say no, just because yeah, like I said, it served its purpose. It was great working for other people. But now, because I have the business that I have with my husband, I love applying all of that into our business, and also into my own personal branding. And I find a lot more joy in that than managing other people's stuff, unfortunately. And that was the season. Like I said, it's served its time. And I don't think I would go back to it. Yeah,

no, that's okay, I find that I kind of have gone through the same thing, I still do client work, but I pulled myself out of a lot of it, where I can be picky, and choose what I want to do, and really be a little bit more thoughtful and intentional. But that's very wise of you. And it's the season of your life that got you to this point. And so what's next for you? What are you planning? Well, that's a

great question. You know, so my husband and I, our business is in a pretty good place. And we've worked really hard on it for the last couple of years, to the point now where we're focusing more on I want to say marketing now. And so I think my future is gonna be more so in podcasting, and

I'm so proud of you, especially as an introvert, for putting yourself out there. And building your own community, like you said, starting over all the time. And there's so many people inside this group want to start over. And I hope you find such encouragement from Jen because that's life. Like we get knocked down, we move we start over, we take on new challenges and new hobbies. And it's okay to start new, like so many of the people inside this group right now are here because they are looking for the inspiration and the encouragement to try something new. And it's different for every single person here. And for Jen, her story is different than my story different than Mary Lee's and Natasha and Deborah. So how of encouragement here. Okay, I have one question that I want to ask you. And then we'll have this off because I could just keep talking to you. One of our students Her name is Karen, she had a question. I was just curious, like how you would answer her so I'm gonna put you in the hot seat. Okay, so she had started with two clients, and it just didn't go well. So she's feeling really discouraged. Just wasn't the ideal setup. I think one of them might have ghosted her like I don't think it was anything she did. But what would you say to her to give her some encouragement to get back on her feet and try again? To answer

her question, I completely understand how you feel. When I first started my business. I remember I was making it up as I go. When I first started in social media. I started off with bartering. You know, I actually exchange services with people. I had verbal agreements. And I initially I had clients like ghost me, or Yeah, mainly ghost me or say that it wasn't going to be a good fit. Or I felt like I was once again, doing more than I needed to do or you know, providing more and undervaluing, like my services, and with every client that didn't want to move forward with me or, you know, want it to end their contract. I took it very personally, I took it as a reflection of Yep, that definitely just affirms like how bad I am as a social media manager, you know, like every failure I took I identified with that failure. And in time I want to say though, that I eventually got to a place where that did not serve me to say that, that I'm a failure. Are you know, like, oh, there it is, again, there's proof that I failed. There's proof that I'm not good at this, you know. And I mean, there's a lot of mantras that I have told myself in the last decade, like, there's so many I've lost count, I have piles of post, it's with different mantras. One of my most favorite things I like to tell myself, and if you are a person of faith, identify as a person of faith is that my favorite Bible verse is Ecclesiastes three. And it talks about how there's a time and place for everything, there's a time to thrive, there's a time to not thrive, there's a time to embrace, there's a time to let go of embracing, there's a time to be happy, there's a time to be sad. I'm not saying that verbatim, by the way.

No, I noticed I noticed. But the point,

the point is, is that, you know, like that served a purpose for you, you know, like those clients, I did move forward, there's a lesson to learn in that. And, you know, looking back at all those clients that didn't move forward with me, honestly, I'm so glad I'm so glad that they didn't want to move forward, because I got better with every new client after that, you know, I just kept getting better and better and better. And one of my other favorite mantras, I think it's by Mother Teresa. And this is what I tell myself, when I need a reset every day, you know, I say, yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come, we only have today, let us begin. I think the most important thing is to practice presence and mindfulness. And understand that, like, at that time, you know that you did the best you could for that client, you know, you did. And so therefore, you can't feel regretful you can't put yourself down. It's kind of like a bad breakup, you think, oh, I should have broke up with them a long time ago. But like, but like you loved that person, the best that you could at that time with the knowledge and the resources that you had. And that's what I told myself, as well as like, you know, I did my best with the time that I had with the resources that I had with the knowledge that I had. And that's it. And that's all you can do is do your best. And take those lessons to just be better, and and you're gonna mess up again. Okay, so let's just be okay with that. Let's just accept the fact that we're gonna mess up again and again and again. And when you think you figured it out, you're gonna mess up again. But the whole idea is to just keep going, you can't fail if you don't quit. And if this is really the industry that you're going to be in or not, because you may find yourself doing other things like me, you know, I ended up in podcasting, it doesn't matter because there's a purpose for it. Like, I do truly believe that there's a purpose for everything. And as long as you're focusing on, you know, being of service and being an providing good to the world, like if you set your intentions, right, I don't think you can go wrong. And yeah, that's it. So I hope that was some piece of motivation for you. And I have a million quotes, I use my Twitter account all the time for like positive quotes, I read a lot of posts, I do a lot of personal development. And so if you're looking for some inspiration, you could follow me on Twitter, which is at the gent Amos, I post stuff all the time. Myself. Yeah, it's really tweaked to myself, but I found that my friends, you know, find it useful and a value to them as well. So of course,

I'm never I'm never on Twitter, but I am going to go follow you and then steal them on. Just kidding. Yeah. And

trust me, I've stolen them from other people. It's just this collection of resources that have uplifted me and taking me through the next moment, you know, because sometimes, like when you're in this industry, when you're when you're being self employed, and you're creating something from nothing, you literally have to live moment by moment. And I think that's part of where the stress comes from, for a lot of people is feeling like they have to be at a certain place, or they have to get to a certain place. And I get that because in school, we were taught to build a linear life, you know, and even in corporate America, you're taught to climb the ladder, you know, and even in everything in our life, we're taught to do things in a linear fashion to keep building upon something, right. But that's not always true. You know, that's a popular way of living. But that's not the only way to live. And so, you know, I can tell you firsthand from someone who's lost count of the number of times she's moved, and how many mistakes I've made. I mean, I'm currently I'm actively on my third business venture, you know, plus other projects that have failed already, you know, and so it's really just that practice of presence and loving yourself and saying, Hey, it's okay. It's okay to be multifaceted. It's okay to work on a project and then dump it the next day. It's completely okay. Like, it's okay. Yeah, it's okay.

It's okay. You don't have to have it all planned out. You don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to have all the reasons why somebody doesn't want to work with you. And that's the hardest part is that and you don't have to know it all. Yeah, the hardest part. Okay. I have another good question for you. And by the way, you are so eloquent because I would have just said, You dodged a bullet. People ghost me all the time. Yeah, please. Got it in such like an inspiring way. I'm like this. Like what happens? I've had clients let me go. I've had one that I blogged about that I got fired for, and it still hurts. Yeah. But it wasn't anything personal. And I know I was doing the absolute best. And it helps that she's in the same stinking spot she was a year ago. Yeah, you know, you're so funny. Okay, somebody asked about where do you find the groups to network with like, in person, because I do teach that and like, get in with your local business owners, your brick and mortars, your service providers, because they all need help with getting online. So tell and networking in person, so quickest way to build trust and build relationships? So where do you find your groups? Or did you I guess, you know, back in San Diego,

yeah, that back in the day is where also, you know, pretty COVID-19. When I first started, I actually started with Facebook events. So I would just see what was in my local area. And then I remember one of these Facebook events, to RSVP on meetup.com. So then I went to meetup.com. And what I would do at these networking events is I would ask other people, Hey, are you part of other networking events? And so that's how I was able to find other networking events. And so before you know it, like I had too many events to go to. So I you know, that's how I started. And let's see. And you can also go to the chamber as well. I mean, there's, there's plenty of ways you can go to your local YMCA and see what they have going on, or like run into people. But I honestly believe that it's not too hard to find it. And even right now, the best time to find local stuff is right now while everything is online anyway, like I literally just signed up for a local Toastmasters that's like down the street, but they're all doing it on Zoom. Because, because like Yeah, and so that's my way of connecting with them now, so that when this whole pandemic is over, and we can get out of our houses, I'm going to be driving locally, and it's just like a five minute drive. But you can find a ton of it for me most of my networking started online, or finding it online and then going to these events and asking people if they're involved in other events as well. So hopefully that helps answer that. And that's how I built my

whole post college adult volleyball career. This I would, I would, I would just go to like the open gyms and be like, what's the best open gym? What's the best week and then next thing I knew I was playing volleyball like seven days a week, and I knew where to go on this night and this night. And it was almost like I knew where all the AAA meetings were, like in the metro. But yeah, people have word of mouth recommendations are amazing. And Case in point, my local, I can't do anything to have him on here. But my local digital marketing agency guy kills it in local business, because he shows up all the business owners who need them and want to hire him. And he's not smarmy. He's 100% Like a good honest, you know, Christian man who gets a lot of business by showing up in person. And we kind of forget about that. But

yeah, and I remember that's how I started my social media agency. Yeah, in person. It's because I just went to these events. I volunteer. That's another thing too, is that if they do have officer positions, like do it like because that's another way to stand out as well. So you're so

right, I didn't think about that. So I can't think I can't thank you enough for coming here. And it's talking to our Facebook group members and inspiring them so many I think are just like loving you. I'm watching the comments come in your comments. I think you've really, really touched a nerve here, especially with some of your encouragement, and about starting over and all of that. So, okay, so Jen is on Instagram, we'll post I'll go back and post some of the links to where to get in touch with her and follow her. You can listen to her podcast, and yeah, and now you're in the group too. So yeah, we have questions for her. Ask her here. She'll follow up. And this has been so fun. Yeah. Thanks,

Emily. Yeah. And to the listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in. And, you know, I'm just as hungry for community as everyone else is right now. So please don't be a stranger, please reach out to me. I'm very active on Facebook Messenger and Instagram. And yeah, it was great. Emily, I'm so glad we were able to reconnect because I was thinking about you. So I'm glad this like manifested into what it is today. So just thank you again, for the opportunity, and for all the good work that you're doing for your community.

Thank you. Thank you for that. And there's so much I didn't cover that I wanted to so maybe we'll just maybe we'll just have the part three soon, too.

Yeah. Oh, for sure. I'd be happy to jump on again. While while we're all stuck at home.

And one of my good friends is in Virginia Beach. If I ever make it down there, we'll hook up in person.

Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great. Yeah, I would love to make local friends. That's like been my mission this year until this whole stay at home order happy. Yeah. So we actually got the executive order to stay home until June 10. Oh my gosh, that's fun.

You know what's crazy? I kind of hate admitting this. And maybe this is a little sad. But as a you know, military spouse I've moved what 11 times in 18 years. First, like, I'm okay, I have so many virtual friends, but I'm like, this is kind of sad. Like I was trying to make an effort to meet new people here. I'd gone to lunch. I was like friend dating and then this happened. I'm like, I have no social life. Like so sad. But I'm okay. Because this is the life that we've been in. Yeah. And I have friends online, but I'm like, I need some friends in person.

Yeah, for sure. I know, I felt that same way. This year. I was like, I'm gonna start making local friends because I can only do so many online interviews. But yeah, when the whole COVID thing happened, the whole stay at home thing happened. It's like, it's like, you know, I'm comfortable here. It's fine. Like, yeah, I've been at home for the last decade. Like what's the difference? Yeah, yeah, do it for another couple months, you know, so

I just signed up for tennis lessons. I was like, I'm gonna not be a workaholic. I'm gonna do something for me. I got one lesson. It was a super fancy like training championship Training Center. And I got one in and then I got

your like, gray. Yeah, I

was like, Okay. I think the effort. That's an important part. So yeah, I did my best with what I had at the time. There you go. That's right. That's right. All right. All right. Take care. Take care. Jen will be in touch.

Bye, everyone. Thank you.