Amicable divorce, divorce recovery, and real support for single parents — this episode explores how to navigate divorce with dignity and community.

In this powerful conversation on Doing Divorce Different, Lesa Koski sits down with Joy Reed, co-founder of the National Association for Single & Divorced Families (NASDF), to discuss what an amicable divorce really looks like — and why divorce recovery requires more than just legal paperwork.

Joy shares her deeply personal story of navigating an amicable divorce, the unexpected grief that followed, and how that journey led her to help build the National Association for Single & Divorced Families. Together, they explore how divorce can be handled with respect, how identity shifts after separation, and why community support is essential during divorce recovery.

This episode dives into:

1. What makes an amicable divorce possible
2. The grief of divorce (even when it’s peaceful)
3. Divorce identity loss and rebuilding
4. Resources for single parents and divorced families
5. Why divorce recovery needs financial, mental health, and childcare support

If you’re navigating divorce, considering divorce, or supporting someone through divorce recovery, this conversation will remind you that divorce doesn’t have to be a war — and you don’t have to do it alone.

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction to amicable divorce and today’s guest

(03:12) Joy’s story of an amicable divorce and staying connected

(08:45) The grief of divorce — identity loss and emotional waves

(14:20) Divorce recovery and losing your “role” in marriage

(19:05) The founding of the National Association for Single & Divorced Families

(24:40) The lack of divorce support resources beyond lawyers

(29:15) Mediation vs. litigation and accessible divorce options

(34:50) Financial strain of divorce and support for single parents

(40:10) Building a national support network for divorced families

(46:05) Why community is essential during divorce recovery

(49:20) Final thoughts on service, dignity, and doing divorce differently

Key Takeaways:

1. Divorce can be amicable — but grief still comes in waves.
2. Identity loss is one of the hardest parts of divorce recovery.
3. Accessible mediation and resources reduce long-term emotional damage.
4. Single parents and divorced families need financial, mental health, and childcare support.
5. Community and service are powerful tools for healing after divorce.

Guest Bio:

Joy Reed is the co-founder of the National Association for Single & Divorced Families (NASDF), a national organization dedicated to supporting single parents and families navigating divorce recovery. With a passion for service and community impact, Joy helps connect divorced and single families with resources including mediation access, financial guidance, childcare support, and mental health services. Her mission is to make divorce recovery more accessible, less isolating, and more dignified for families nationwide.

Resource Links:

National Association for Single & Divorced Families (NASDF): https://www.nasdf.org/about

Learn more about Doing Divorce Different:

https://lesakoski.com

Tags/Keywords:

amicable divorce, divorce recovery, National Association for Single and Divorced Families, NASDF, divorce support, single parent resources, mediation vs litigation, divorce grief, co-parenting after divorce, divorce identity loss, healthy divorce, divorce podcast, doing divorce different, divorce without fighting, divorce community support, single mom resources, single dad resources, divorce advice, peaceful divorce

Welcome listeners.

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I am so happy that you're here today

because we're gonna learn a little

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bit about the National Association

for Single and Divorced Families.

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Um, and even more important than

that, I have Joy Reed with me.

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She's one of the founders.

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And just in the little bit that

I've gotten to talk to Joy,

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before we jumped on, I just know

this is gonna be a really fun.

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Authentic conversation where

we get to know joy better.

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And you know, I think it was cute

because Joy welcome by the way,

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welcome to doing the divorce different.

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And you were so cute because, um, she was

a little concerned about the questions I

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was gonna ask because her agent had sent

over some and I was like, oh no, no, no.

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Don't you worry.

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'cause she's like, I had a good divorce.

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And I go, well that's

good because I think.

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Listeners, we need to know that

sometimes divorce doesn't have

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to be a fist fight and you know,

and sometimes it can go well.

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So I think Joy can tell that story

and she can also share a little

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bit about the National Association

for Singled and Divorced families.

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So Joy, welcome.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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I, I, I really appreciate you actually.

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Um, I appreciated your

response to the questions.

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It was the perfect response, right?

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Don't worry, we're just gonna have

a real and authentic conversation.

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Like it was just, I thought, oh,

this, this could be my people, right?

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Uhhuh, this

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Speaker: is gonna be your people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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So I, I did have a.

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Very, when I say it was an amicable

divorce, I mean that my, my ex

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is still my emergency contact.

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You know that, that's which I was,

I always say I, I need that because

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I have to have somebody who knows my

medical history, but will also answer

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the phone and that rules out my family.

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Um, it, it was, it was a case where,

'cause I think, you know, so I, the

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way that I was brought up, and there's

nothing wrong with this by the way,

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there's nothing wrong with this,

but the way that I was brought up

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is you stay married no matter what.

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You stay married no matter what.

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And, and I think there's this very fine

line between, you know, the, the sanctity

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of marriage and, and, and, and how much

work marriage does will, no matter how

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good it is, requires because like, I, so

I'm, I'm a recovering addict, alcoholic,

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and I had a sponsor once who was coaching

somebody through marital problems and

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she said, it's okay to tell him I don't

fit in the box you bought me in anymore.

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And, and I think that happens

throughout a marriage.

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We grow out of the boxes that

we were originally in, and we

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have to work at making it stick

together and stay together.

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And there's a line between that

and how much work is, this is

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not gonna ever, ever be enough.

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Like this is, this is not a fit.

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This is broken.

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And, and so it was very hard for me with,

you know, because nothing broke with my

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ex-wife and I, there was no infidelity.

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There was no abuse.

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Um, which is one of the reasons why

we're able to, 'cause it's, it's,

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you can't have amicable when there's

something that, those egregious things.

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Um, but so I was going like,

well, we can't, we can't split.

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We can't split.

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Right?

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Like, we, like, nothing's bad here.

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Nothing's bad here.

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And, and it took, I mean, we, we both joke

that we think we put, you know, several

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couples, therapists kids through college

with the amount of therapy that we went

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through because it just, it was not a fit.

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It was not a fit.

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And no matter how much we tried to squeeze

that square peg into the round hole and

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wanted it to be a fit, it was not a fit.

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And so we were able to, you

know, when she, she was the

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first one to call it, right?

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She said she came home one day

and she said, I, you know, and

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she, and she brought it up.

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And at first, at first my

body went ice cold, right?

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Like, what are you saying

you wanna a divorce?

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Like, what do you mean this isn't working?

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You wanna divorce?

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And I got so terrified.

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And then it was, I always say,

it's like I stepped outside of me.

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Sat down next to me on the

couch, took my own face in my

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hands and said, honey, shut up.

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Like, take a breath, because this

is actually better for both of you.

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This is better for both of you.

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And if you do it right, if you

sit here and you're, and you're

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conscious and you're aware, this

person has been your best friend

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for years, you can navigate this.

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And so I, I said to her.

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I took a breath and I said,

come sit down next to me and

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let's talk about how to do this.

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Right?

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Speaker: Mm.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk

about how to do this.

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Right.

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And I

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Speaker: love that.

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Speaker 2: And we were lucky because,

you know, it's so, our kids, well they're

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my, they're hair kids, my step kids.

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But they were, they were grown.

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Our oldest was in college.

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And our youngest was in his last

year of high school, so we didn't

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have to, there were a whole lot

of things that weren't in play.

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We didn't have to navigate, uh,

co-parenting, which can get, even have

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the most amicable of situations, suddenly

start to get very sticky as you know.

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Well, what do you mean you get Christmas?

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You know, and, and it

could escalate things.

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And we didn't have to worry about that.

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We didn't have mutual property.

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Um, to a great degree, to like,

to worry about splitting up.

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And so we just, we sat down

and I said, look, we don't

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have all of these messy things.

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All we have are feelings.

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And you know, you have a master's in

counseling and you know, I'm in recovery.

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And I'm sure we can

navigate the feelings part

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Speaker: mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: Because we've also

seen each other at our absolute

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worst and our absolute best.

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So, so we can do this and, and we

joke all the time, like two nights

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later, in order to celebrate this new

chapter, we went out for a divorce date.

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I took her to the standup comic in San

Francisco and we had vegan ice cream.

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Afterwards, it was like, we're gonna

celebrate this new chapter of who we are.

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We are not ending.

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Right.

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We've been through all of this

stuff and she's still, I mean, she's

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one of my closest dearest friends.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: It's just this is, we have

to, we have to navigate the change.

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What I was not prepped for though, is that

no matter how amicable a divorce is, I

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was not prepared for the grief that hit.

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Speaker: Oh, there is grief.

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There is grief.

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Talk about that a little bit.

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Joy.

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Speaker 2: You know, it, it, and I

think it was, it was, it was triple

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full too, because for years I had

had an identity that was wife,

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mama keeper of the house, right?

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I mean, I, I worked, but I was the

one, I, I was the one, I was the decor,

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I was the baking, I was the cooking.

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Like I kept the house.

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And almost overnight, um,

I'm not a wife anymore.

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Uh, my kids are grown and gone.

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And I was dating somebody

who kept her own darn house.

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Thank you very much.

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And I thought, well, who the heck am I.

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So there was a grief of identity

loss because all these things that I

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defined my world with for years were

suddenly gone and, and there was a

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grief over the loss of my best friend

because, you know, the marriage wasn't

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a fit and the marriage wasn't working.

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And we did split.

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But then we had like this year where

we didn't talk, we didn't communicate

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because we're both okay, we're,

we're starting new lives, right?

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We're starting new lives and

we're doing different things.

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And this is a person that I have

literally shared everything with.

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Good, bad fighting, screaming,

loving, laughing for years.

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And they're gone.

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They're just gone.

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They're not just in the next room.

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It was, it was like a,

it was like death, right?

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It's like when you know your close

loved one passes and you find

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yourself absent, mindly reaching

for the phone to call them, and then

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they're remembering all over again.

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Oh, they're gone.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: And that, then that hit

very, I wasn't prepared for the, the

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grief of the loss of my best friend.

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The loss of being a mama, the loss of.

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All of this stuff that was all tied in.

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And then having to deal with that grief

while also figuring out who I was and, and

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navigating all of that while still working

and while still making it look like I held

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all things together like that was, that,

that is, I wish somebody had said to me,

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um, this is gonna hit you like a ton of

bricks and it's gonna happen in waves.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: So, and then, God, it

happens in waves like all grief because

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we get knocked down by one wave.

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Then the wave recedes and we can stand

up and catch our breath before the next

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wave comes and knocks us down again.

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Mm-hmm.

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And we just have to keep

standing and rising.

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Standing and rising and breathing

and trying very hard not to drown.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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So did going through this lead you to

be a co-founder in this organization or?

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Speaker 2: No, actually

what's interesting is, um.

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So I'm, I'm a California Bay

area girl, but I moved out to

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Florida about four years ago and,

and actually so did my ex-wife.

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So, um, and I began working for her

brother, he's actually my co-founder,

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and, and we were working together

in a different field and then he, he

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went to this conference one weekend

and he came back and he said, you

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know, it was very interesting.

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While I was at this conference, I ended up

talking to a couple of, of the men there

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about this old association that dad and I

were gonna put together like 30 years ago.

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And I thought, you know, I'm gonna come

back and I'm gonna dust the business plan

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off, and I want you to take a look at it.

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And I said, okay.

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So I, I, you know, just

tell me what you think.

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So I, I took this, you know, I took the

thumb drive home where a business plan

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was, and I plugged it in and I'm reading

it and, and I'm, you know, highlighting

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different things and I'm, you know, and

I'm, so, I'm very, very analytical, right?

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I, I, I'm half a motion, half complete.

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Logic and analysis, and I'm

analyzing all of this stuff.

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I'm like, okay, I don't know, really

understand what this means and what is

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this insurance product and what is this?

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And then as I was about halfway

through, I realized, oh my gosh, no

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wait, this is, this is important.

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You're talking about A A RP.

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But for single parents and the

struggling, you know, divorced families,

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single parent families, where the

lack of resources is mind boggling.

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When I got divorced and I

was looking for okay, like.

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You know, do we need a mediator?

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I don't think we need a mediator, but

everything is, you know, what do we need?

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What do we need?

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And, and, and I'm Googling things.

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All you find are lawyers and mediator.

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That's it.

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You don't find any other resources.

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It's hard to, to find support groups even.

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You have to go really digging for

support groups and then finding

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support groups that aren't toxic

and finding financial advice.

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And it's hard.

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And I thought we, we have an

opportunity to put something

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together here that actually helps.

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And fills a, fills a gap.

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And I came in and I said, I,

I am in love with this, right?

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I'm in love with this and so

let's figure out how to do it.

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And you know, he, he, he jokes a lot

that he came in the office one day

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and I, we, I had this large like.

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The Post-it pads, but the ones that

you can mount on a wall and I, I had

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covered the wall with these sheets of

the Post-it pad with, you know, different

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things written out and diagrams drawn.

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And he walked in, he goes, oh my God,

you a beautiful minded, the office.

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Like, what did you, what is this?

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Because I thought this, this could

be, this, this could be so much

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more than just this little thing.

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And, and so we, we got into it,

not because my own divorce, but

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when he handed the business plan to

me, we were already working on it.

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My, my passion.

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Service.

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That's my passion.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: It's one of my

strongest love languages.

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That's my whole, and I, and I say all

the time as this world gets crazier

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and crazier, the only thing that helps

my mental health hang on, is the fact

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that every day I get up and I try to do

something that provides for other people.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: And I can hold to that.

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And it's a, it is a very,

very, very big deal for me.

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So this, I thought, this is the first

time since, you know, I was in the

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Navy, that I feel like I'm getting up

and doing something that's of service.

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So let's build this.

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Let's build this to, to help communities

that really, I don't, maybe if you're

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in the 1% income bracket, the divorce

doesn't impact too hard financially.

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But other than that, no matter

where you fall, lower class,

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middle class, I think yeah, it

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Speaker: affects everyone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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It affects so hard and it, and

it's, it affects financially, it

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affects everything, so, mm-hmm.

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Let's pull together.

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And the, the biggest, he said,

you know, we could get, you know,

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these products and these products.

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And I said, well, the, the most important

things for me if we're dealing with

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divorce and single parents is I wanna

get mental healthcare access and I

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wanna get access to childcare and child

education, you know, at, at lower costs.

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Because I think so.

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Speaker: Okay.

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So tell me, so tell me more about

how long have you, has this existed?

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Speaker 2: Uh, we started, we

started trying to build it about

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three and a half years ago.

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Um, and I, and, and you know, it's,

I think with everything, when anyone

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starts a business, it's like a business

is outside of their usual realm.

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It's like, oh yeah, we got this

and we're gonna do it this way.

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And we've had to pivot

400,000 times mm-hmm.

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Speaker: And,

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Speaker 2: and deal with the

building of infrastructure

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that we weren't thinking about.

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Mm-hmm.

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So the first probably two years of us

was us trying to build together, okay,

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this is our website, but we also need

a member portal that then communicates

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with payment like that we need.

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Yeah, build all of these different

things we need to find different

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partners, and then trying to get

people who agreed to provide products

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and resources to us and work with us.

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You know, I said we were in our

Oliver Twist stage, you know?

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Please sir, I want some more.

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Speaker: Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because we're, we're begging,

we're begging these people, you know.

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Well, how large is your membership base?

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Yeah, we don't have one yet.

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We're trying to get the

membership base and, and

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unfortunately there were very few.

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Advisors and resources and programs

and people who were willing to take it

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on when it wasn't gonna benefit them

financially, just because it would be

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a way to help people who needed it.

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But I realized about a year and a half

in that that was good because that meant

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that the people I did partner with,

like Go-Go Mediation or Hollis Hartman,

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who's a financial advisor with Merit,

these were people who were desperately

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committed to the same thing that he

and that Ron and I are committed to,

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which is we do this to help people.

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We do this, not because we

want to make a buck from it.

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That's good.

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We all need to survive, but

we do this to help people.

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I mean, the, the founder of Gogo

Mediation founded it because he knew

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mediation was a better option for

a lot of people in a lot of areas.

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Not just family law,

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Speaker: right.

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Speaker 2: Than actual legal, you

know, going the root of a lawyer.

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But mediation was so costly

that no one could afford it.

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And he thought, forget that I'm

leaving law and I'm gonna found this

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because this is better and this is

healthier, but I'm gonna make it lower

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cost so that people can actually.

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Afford this and maybe get through

something with a little bit less

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psychological damage than they would

if they went the root of the courts.

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And that's, that's someone

that I want to promote, right?

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Because that's right in

line with, with what I want.

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Like I don't need to worry about

am I making a buck from this?

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How do we make this accessible to people?

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So the amount of people that wouldn't

work with us or like, you know, come

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back, you know, come back to our company

after you've got about 5,000 members,

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then we can talk about doing 15%

discount off of our products for you.

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That, that weeded out a lot of the more.

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Self-based models and got me into

people like, you know, like Lenovo

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or, or Gallagher Hollis, Gogo,

who were like, yeah, we got this.

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This is great.

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This is amazing what you're doing.

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Let's, you know everybody needs help right

now, so let's figure out how to do that.

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And

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Speaker: so, so who comes to you?

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So somebody finds you who's

going through a divorce or,

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Speaker 2: or, or, or, you know, a single

parent never married or, well, I also

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say, if you need us, that's who, that's,

then you use us because it's not like we

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check your, your credentials at the gate.

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Right.

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Like, hold on, show me,

where's your divorce?

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Right, right.

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So, so we are the association for divorced

and single, single and divorced families.

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And, and one of my passion areas with

the, with advocacy programs that I'm

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working to create and partner with

her for two gen programs, which fights

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intergenerational poverty, which is

rampant in single parent families.

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Um, but really it's if you, if

you need, if you have kids and

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you need help, well then you, you.

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Sign up because we've got diapers,

we have formula, we have, you know,

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mental healthcare sessions, we have

child education discounts, we have

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school supplies, office supplies.

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Like if you, if you've got

kids, then you sign up.

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That's,

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Speaker: and where are you located?

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Speaker 2: Um, our office is

located, our physical office

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is located in Florida, in St.

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Pete, Florida.

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Speaker: Okay.

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You said you moved to Florida, so, but

it's not just for people in Florida?

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Speaker 2: No, it's, it's, it's national.

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It's all over.

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And that's, that was another hard

thing because as I'm gathering

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resources, you know, like mediators,

they'll say we're national.

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And then you look at who they've got.

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And it's like in two states.

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So that's not national.

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That's, that's you serve only

Massachusetts and you serve only Georgia.

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So trying to find companies

that really were national.

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Very, it was a lot more difficult

than I had envisioned because yes.

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I mean, I could have it parceled out by

state, but that would, I'm one person.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

361

Speaker 2: Gathering

resources for each 50 state.

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My God, I'd be dead before I finished.

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So it was that, that, that

was, 'cause we are national.

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We need our people to be national.

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We need this to be, no matter

where you are, you could log

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on and this works for you.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

369

And as I'm thinking about it, I

mean, I, as far as mediation goes.

370

I don't think there's a reason.

371

If you're a mediator, it's in your blood.

372

It's who you are.

373

You help people come to agreements.

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Um, you don't have to do a legal document.

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You can help people come to a memorandum

of understanding in any state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

377

Speaker: There, you know what I mean?

378

So it's, I don't understand.

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I'm licensed in Minnesota.

380

I'm an an attorney and I'm

licensed as a mediator.

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That means the court.

382

Can order it and then people come

to me and go through the car.

383

But that doesn't mean that

you can't mediate outside no.

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Speaker 2: Individually, correct.

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Speaker: Right.

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But

387

Speaker 2: I can't go for Indi.

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Like I wasn't looking for, okay.

389

I'm gonna find individual

mediators in each state.

390

There are organizations and associations

that gather together mediators.

391

And that's what I was looking for.

392

'cause I'm trying to, you

know, work faster, not harder.

393

Because there's like 15 things

that I'm trying to gather.

394

So when I was going to these organizations

that said, we're nash, we have national

395

mediators, but they only hit two states.

396

I know like, and I know from, you

know, we have Elise Elsberry is

397

actually one of our individual

mediators that we recommend, and she's

398

local and I, I love her to death.

399

And Elise had said to me, but

the same point, she's like,

400

you can have a mediator.

401

You know, like it doesn't need to

be, oh, I'm a national associate.

402

I'm a national organization of mediators.

403

And I said, no, I know, but if I don't

know anything about mediation or law.

404

I am a single mama or about to

be, and I'm exhausted, and I

405

log on and it says National.

406

And I go to this site that N-A-S-D-F is

recommending, and it says only in Georgia.

407

I may not know Yeah.

408

Or be so stressed that

it would never occur.

409

Speaker: Oh, okay.

410

Speaker 2: Yeah.

411

That, well that doesn't mean only

Georgia it's gonna be fine if I'm in,

412

you know, Hawaii, that may not occur.

413

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

414

Speaker 2: So I needed to

be very explicitly clear.

415

They have mediators everywhere so that

there's no, there's no lockdown of, well,

416

that doesn't apply to me, even if it does.

417

Right?

418

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

419

Speaker 2: Which was the other challenge

too, is that I can't just think about

420

this in terms of what I know because I,

I have this knowledge and I'm calm, and

421

I'm not stressed, and we all know when

our brain is, is panicking, we lock down.

422

We don't always process.

423

So I had to, you know, the, just

keep it simple, stupid, right?

424

Keep it as simple and stupid as

possible so that no matter how

425

freaked out somebody is, it's very

clear and there's no, there's no

426

opportunity for, well, I can't do that.

427

Because the other thing too is we

all struggle to ask for help anyway.

428

So to even, even if we're not verbal,

verbally saying, please help me, that,

429

that makes us feel so vulnerable and weak.

430

And not, and not, and so if you go and

you see, okay, well this is in Georgia,

431

you think, okay, that's not for me, right?

432

And we just get defeatist and we move on.

433

So I, I just needed it.

434

I needed it to be so clear that

no matter where you are, all

435

of these things work for you.

436

Whether you have knowledge that that

would've happened anyway or not.

437

Speaker: Okay.

438

So when people come to you, do they have

to pay for services or how does that work?

439

Speaker 2: So there are, there

are resources that do it.

440

So we have a $19 a month membership.

441

Speaker: Okay.

442

Speaker 2: And within that membership

are, are the things that we have to, that

443

we, um, pay more for ourselves, right.

444

So we contract with these people

and pay them money, um, so that

445

we can provide the discounts.

446

So.

447

Our discounts with Office Max, um, for

school supplies and office supplies.

448

Our discounts with Lenovo to have, you

know, I think it's up to 30 or 35%,

449

uh, savings off of laptops and tablets

and desktops and, and all of that.

450

Um, we work with a learning care group and

they're the, we're the parent company for

451

Montessori Unlimited La Petite Academy.

452

Um, and we pay them so that

we can give our members.

453

Uh, uh, like I think it's 10 to

15% off of the tuition and the,

454

and waived registration fee.

455

And then priority registration.

456

So all those things that we pay for,

then we have to, we have to recoup.

457

So that's what the $19 a month membership

fee covers are all those things that

458

come with the heavier discounts,

um, the advisors and the resources

459

and the people that we recommend.

460

Or connect you with career

services financial advice.

461

Mm-hmm.

462

That, that you could just go on to

N-A-S-D-F and you look at advisors

463

support and we have lists and of

resources there that you can just

464

connect with and reach out to.

465

There's no cost for that.

466

We just like here, if you wanna,

if you wanna recommendation, these

467

are good people, reach out to them.

468

And I'm not gonna charge for that

because I don't, I don't pay for that.

469

I just partner with Gogo

because we like each other.

470

Right.

471

I, I partner with, with Hollis

because I think she's amazing.

472

So I'm not that, that you get, no matter

who you are, you don't have to join

473

us in order to get guidance that way.

474

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

475

So interesting.

476

What a great idea.

477

And you're new, you're kind of a new,

I mean, I think three years is new.

478

Speaker 2: Well, and and it hasn't

even, I mean, really it's just in

479

the last year that we started to,

oh, okay, now we have traction.

480

So, and it, it's so funny, I say

it's, it's like the motto of the

481

military hurry up and wait, like

it's, it's, it was hurry up and

482

wait to get all this stuff together.

483

And then it was like, okay,

well this isn't working.

484

And we were, we were actually

just starting to freak out.

485

And, and go, okay, we're ready.

486

Like we're gonna have to go out and get

other jobs soon, because this isn't, I

487

mean, we financed ourselves because he

took a mortgage out on his house, right?

488

Like there was, there were no

funders, there were no investors.

489

It was, okay, well we have

to do this, let's do it.

490

And we were just starting to go.

491

Oh, this isn't good.

492

When and, and so often, this is how

it happens, right At the 11th hour.

493

Oh, okay.

494

Now it's working.

495

Now it's working.

496

We just, you know, we, we met somebody

who has a similar focus that we have,

497

and he's got this, you know, network.

498

We're now tapped into his network.

499

Now we're growing our membership base.

500

Okay, now, now it's rolling.

501

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

502

Speaker 2: So we're not

even three years old.

503

We're in some ways, we're

like five minutes old.

504

Speaker: Right.

505

Yeah.

506

I mean that's, that's very young.

507

That's very early stages.

508

And I love, I love what you're doing.

509

I, I love when people, you know,

kinda go through something hard or

510

see a need and they wanna serve.

511

That's, ugh, that's just the best.

512

And that's what brings us joy, right?

513

Speaker 2: It is.

514

Speaker: So their purpose.

515

Speaker 2: It's what we're here to do.

516

Mm-hmm.

517

I was, you know, I was saying, I was on

a, another podcast last year and I said,

518

I actually actually misspoke, um, when

I used the hominid species, but I said,

519

you know, it's not like Homo sapiens

stood up, you know, 200 to 300,000

520

years ago and said, okay guys, peace.

521

I'm out.

522

I'm on my own.

523

You don't help me and I don't help you.

524

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

525

Speaker 2: That's not how we survive.

526

That's how we got eaten.

527

Like that's, we, we, we are supposed

to serve each other and help each

528

other and work with each other.

529

That's the entire point.

530

That's the entire point.

531

We, we raise each other's children and

we nurse each other and we care for

532

each other, and we guide each other.

533

We hold each other, we comfort each other.

534

That's how we survive.

535

Mm-hmm.

536

And, and there's, and I, and I get,

you know, there's this mentality

537

of, well, every man for himself.

538

And I think that's a, a, a

survival instinct response too.

539

Over, over the years this developed,

but in any kind of, in any kind of

540

faith, in any kind of spiritual path,

in any kind of, I mean deeper true

541

faith and spiritual path, we all know

the point is you, you try to spread

542

love and you try to spread comfort and

you try to spread peace and you try to

543

hold the line for each other and you

try to come together as a community.

544

This is what, this is what you try to do.

545

This is the whole point of who we are.

546

Mm-hmm.

547

And, and, and so when we're in these

situations where we can be of service,

548

like I was, I was reading about you

and a little bit about how, you know,

549

you kind of struggled with getting

into like divorce, mediation and

550

why, and then realizing like, no.

551

Like this is, this is the purpose

to try to guide people through this.

552

And it's

553

Speaker: so funny because as you're

talking about that, and thank you

554

for researching me, I appreciate

that, but No, no, it is, it's

555

interesting because I hate divorce.

556

I hate it.

557

And then I thought, I thought because

I hated it, it wasn't good for me.

558

I shouldn't be a part of it.

559

And then one day, like through prayer.

560

I, and you know, I was kind of sitting

li I was lying in bed and I was, 'cause

561

I was just, I just didn't feel right.

562

What I, I mean, I was kind of more

generalized helping women over 40.

563

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

564

Speaker: And it hit me over the head.

565

Like, my oncologist hates cancer, but

she held my hand and cured me through it.

566

Right, right.

567

So I can hate divorce.

568

I have so much.

569

Knowledge, and I'm gonna,

I'm a divorce attorney.

570

I mean, I can help these women.

571

What the hell am I doing?

572

And once that, and this is kind

of recent, like you're one of the

573

first podcasts where I'm kind of

back to talking more about divorce.

574

Mm-hmm.

575

Um, and I was just like.

576

What am I doing?

577

Like this is my calling.

578

These are the, and yeah, I've been

married 34 years and I hate divorce.

579

That doesn't mean I can't

help you through it, right?

580

It doesn't mean I don't

wanna help you through it.

581

So, so that has just given me a gr

tremendous amount of peace in, in the work

582

that I'm doing, and I just got things back

up and I, and I want you to know, joy.

583

I have free resources, so like there's

a free co-parenting masterclass.

584

Put it on your website, give it to people.

585

I

586

Speaker 2: already, when this was

done, I was gonna send you, or say at

587

the end of this, or send you an email

and say, I've looked at all of this.

588

I would like to link to these things.

589

And also Yeah,

590

Speaker: no, especially the

free, especially the free stuff.

591

There is, there is so

much there to help people.

592

And, and that's, yeah, that's

what I, that's what I truly want.

593

Speaker 2: And I, and I love the saddle up

that you do like these little snippets of

594

Speaker: Yeah.

595

Speaker 2: And I love the title of it too.

596

It was just.

597

Speaker: It was very well,

I am in my horse barn, so.

598

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

599

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

600

Yeah.

601

So I just, I love that and I'm

looking at the time and it's gone so

602

fast and joy, I can say it has been

a joy to get to know you better.

603

I really have loved it.

604

And just so the listeners

know, we're gonna have a link.

605

To your organization.

606

So if there's someone out there

who needs some help, they can reach

607

out to you, um, you know as well.

608

So, so I just so appreciate you.

609

I appreciate your time.

610

Thank you for, for being here and

um, I know it's not always easy

611

and I know you're a busy gal and

sometimes we don't like to do

612

these things, but I appreciate it.

613

Speaker 2: No, I, I appreciate

the opportunity and, and

614

thank you for you by the way.

615

This was very authentic, real,

and lovely, so thank you.

616

Speaker: Well, you are so welcome.

617

Thank you too.

618

Thanks for being here.

619

You take good care.

620

Speaker 2: You too.