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2023-05-09. Launching
Episode 419th May 2023 • Reqless • Aboard
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Rich and Paul are about to launch Aboard - the sponsor of this podcast. In this episode they discuss the expectations of entrepreneurs for launch, and how to navigate the dissonance between expectations and reality post-launch.

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Paul Ford:

Well, I don't need any advice.

Paul Ford:

Rich

Rich Ziade:

Billy Joel in an interview once said, me leaving Madison Square

Rich Ziade:

Garden, which he's played at 5,000

Paul Ford:

Sure.

Rich Ziade:

Me

Rich Ziade:

leaving Madison Square Garden and getting in that limo is the

Rich Ziade:

loneliest feeling in the world.

Paul Ford:

Mmm.

Rich Ziade:

Yep.

Rich Ziade:

It's very lonely.

Paul Ford:

Tell you when you want, when you wanna feel really lonely,

Paul Ford:

you just put on The Stranger.

Paul Ford:

On Vinyl.

Rich Ziade:

Stranger's a good album.

Paul Ford:

is a good album.

Rich Ziade:

It is a good album.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

I don't know

Rich Ziade:

what are you in such a good mood for?

Paul Ford:

Well, first of all, nothing is better for people than

Paul Ford:

hearing two middle-aged men talk about their love for Billy Joel albums.

Paul Ford:

That's,

Rich Ziade:

not a huge Billy Joel fan, just to get

Paul Ford:

No stranger's good though.

Paul Ford:

And you're, I'm, I'm not either.

Paul Ford:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

So I'm, I'm really excited I'm coming to you today cuz I'm gonna

Paul Ford:

launch a website really soon.

Paul Ford:

Oh,

Rich Ziade:

Oh, you've got a show coming at Madison Square

Paul Ford:

Oh, it's so great.

Paul Ford:

I'm gonna get out there.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

I mean, Billy Joel, you know, he's had a lot of problems in life.

Paul Ford:

Not me.

Paul Ford:

I'm gonna want, we're gonna hit the big red button.

Paul Ford:

That thing's gonna be out there.

Rich Ziade:

and

Paul Ford:

Everyone's gonna think I'm so smart and so great, and they're

Paul Ford:

gonna be like, good job, buddy.

Paul Ford:

And then it's just gonna succeed and millions of people are gonna use it.

Paul Ford:

And I, I'm just, I'm already seeing, I, I have, I have to revise my obituary in my

Rich Ziade:

Just success

Paul Ford:

Oh, just, it's gonna be so great.

Paul Ford:

I love launching product products.

Paul Ford:

It's the greatest feeling in the world.

Paul Ford:

And once they go live, everybody just thinks that you're the best person ever.

Rich Ziade:

It, it's nothing like that.

Paul Ford:

No, it isn't.

Paul Ford:

And I think that's what we should talk about today.

Rich Ziade:

Let's do it.

Paul Ford:

All right, so launch.

Paul Ford:

We're about to launch a product.

Paul Ford:

are quietly now we're, it's gonna be for people who've signed up

Paul Ford:

to the mailing list, which I know everyone listening to the podcast has

Rich Ziade:

aboard.com.

Rich Ziade:

Put your email address in a really fun, cool tool for organizing

Rich Ziade:

your passions@aboard.com.

Paul Ford:

I will say I love this thing.

Paul Ford:

I use it all day.

Paul Ford:

It has made the web better for me already and we're, we are getting started.

Paul Ford:

So let me get that outta the way.

Paul Ford:

We're launching a software product that I personally find useful and

Paul Ford:

interesting and that I, I like using.

Paul Ford:

So that's a good feeling.

Rich Ziade:

get launched all the

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

Uh,

Rich Ziade:

plays

Rich Ziade:

debut movies get released to theaters.

Rich Ziade:

Albums are dropped.

Rich Ziade:

That's the language to

Paul Ford:

They're all really successful.

Rich Ziade:

books get released,

Paul Ford:

Oh boy.

Rich Ziade:

um, and, uh, restaurants are opened.

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

The restaurant analogy is a good one.

Rich Ziade:

Uh,

Paul Ford:

restaurant and be really excited about how it's

Rich Ziade:

let's spend some money on pr.

Paul Ford:

Okay.

Paul Ford:

I just hired a pr.

Paul Ford:

Pr I'm gonna spend

Rich Ziade:

Whoa.

Rich Ziade:

For a restaurant.

Paul Ford:

for.

Paul Ford:

It's a good restaurant.

Paul Ford:

Okay,

Rich Ziade:

you're out.

Rich Ziade:

You've got all kinds of press.

Rich Ziade:

You're packed.

Rich Ziade:

Everyone's

Rich Ziade:

gonna try you out, especially if your lighting is good and you've got a good

Rich Ziade:

stereo system and the plating is nice.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

No, we need to name any completely random country,

Rich Ziade:

Guatemala.

Paul Ford:

It's a Guatemala and gastropub.

Paul Ford:

I love a good ev.

Paul Ford:

You can take, you can throw a, a, a dart at the wall

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

as long as you don't hit Antarctica Yeah.

Paul Ford:

You can just put gastropub after it.

Paul Ford:

And Brooklyn will follow all over itself.

Rich Ziade:

yes.

Rich Ziade:

And so you open the restaurant.

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

There's a lot of people there cuz you promoted the hell out of it.

Rich Ziade:

You spent some money.

Paul Ford:

It's, it's Brooklyn's only Azer by Johnny and Gastropub,

Rich Ziade:

And then two things happen.

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Paul Ford:

At our.

Paul Ford:

Mongolian

Rich Ziade:

cover both.

Rich Ziade:

We might need an extra podcast for this.

Paul Ford:

good.

Paul Ford:

We'll do two.

Rich Ziade:

The first thing that happens is there is this messed up

Rich Ziade:

thing your brain does to you where it tells you that when you launch

Rich Ziade:

or open, that your work is done.

Paul Ford:

Oh, that's the worst.

Rich Ziade:

And then it turns out nobody likes the spinach fritters

Rich Ziade:

at your restaurant, or it turns out the labor behind one of your dishes

Rich Ziade:

is four times longer than it needs to be, and it, and you're packed.

Rich Ziade:

And so the work, instead of that moment of exhaling and just kicking back, which

Rich Ziade:

by the way, let's put aside even the book getting released, the publisher's

Rich Ziade:

like, all right now, Get going.

Rich Ziade:

Go visits all the bookstores and the universities.

Paul Ford:

it all 15 years ago.

Paul Ford:

It's horrible, horrible

Rich Ziade:

Dave sent you to work.

Paul Ford:

let me give you a metaphor.

Paul Ford:

I have, we've been, how long have, have we been working on our product?

Rich Ziade:

Two and a half years.

Paul Ford:

Think, let me give you a shovel and you're gonna start digging

Paul Ford:

for two and a half How big of a, how big of a hole have you made?

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

And the dream of the launch is that, that you're gonna fill that hole in right away.

Rich Ziade:

Well, first you're gonna get shot back out of it so you don't kill

Paul Ford:

You can, you can get out of the

Rich Ziade:

gonna fill with gold bars,

Paul Ford:

Gold bars and dreams and love, and people, people who, and

Paul Ford:

then people are gonna understand your intent and be excited and motivated

Rich Ziade:

Well, let's, I mean, let's, let's focus on, first off, that.

Rich Ziade:

There's two things happening.

Rich Ziade:

One is you just expect to be washed over with love and adoration.

Rich Ziade:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

The other is you're sitting in a recliner as all that happens.

Rich Ziade:

Neither of those things happen first.

Rich Ziade:

There is no recliner.

Rich Ziade:

For some reason, the work like quadruples on the other side.

Paul Ford:

side.

Paul Ford:

Go back.

Paul Ford:

Now that I'm done with my home metaphor, let's go back,

Paul Ford:

um, into, to the restaurant.

Paul Ford:

There's been a small kitchen fire.

Paul Ford:

The,

Rich Ziade:

No, no.

Rich Ziade:

Chef quit

Paul Ford:

the fire department, white shirts

Rich Ziade:

times, three different chefs in the first six

Paul Ford:

Fire

Paul Ford:

department, white chefs need to do a walkthrough because

Paul Ford:

of the, the way your gas line

Rich Ziade:

by

Rich Ziade:

the way, the, the more intricate the sleeve tattoo, the more likely

Rich Ziade:

they are to quit you in Brooklyn.

Paul Ford:

it is true.

Paul Ford:

You see a, and it's weird.

Paul Ford:

It'll be like, I went to culinary school, I have a neck tattoo,

Paul Ford:

and you're like, perfect.

Rich Ziade:

Yeah.

Rich Ziade:

And, and, and they won't quit because they'll, they'll quit

Rich Ziade:

because you said something about the

Paul Ford:

They're artists.

Rich Ziade:

they're artists, right?

Rich Ziade:

All right, so chefs are

Paul Ford:

so, and actually, hold on.

Paul Ford:

We're talking about this as like restaurant owners slash co-founders.

Paul Ford:

Everyone who's been working towards the project has been part of digging the hole.

Rich Ziade:

Everyone's been digging

Paul Ford:

And is really counting on that hole to like fill up really fast and,

Paul Ford:

and it's, you might think it's money.

Paul Ford:

I don't think it is actually.

Paul Ford:

I think no one expects like magical gold bars to rain from the sky.

Paul Ford:

I think what people expect is people will acknowledge and see the labor and

Paul Ford:

the energy and the, the sort of aspects of myself that I've put into this.

Rich Ziade:

mm-hmm.

Paul Ford:

And they don't, and we've come back to this a

Paul Ford:

bunch of times in the podcast.

Paul Ford:

I, I'll skip ahead and what they see is themselves reflected and then they decide

Paul Ford:

if they like the reflection or not.

Paul Ford:

And that's software.

Paul Ford:

That's the restaurant.

Paul Ford:

That's the Azerbaijan gastro pub.

Paul Ford:

It's, it's all of

Rich Ziade:

Is it a movie?

Paul Ford:

It is the movie.

Paul Ford:

You go to the movie and guy, I, I like the, why do we have critics in this world?

Paul Ford:

It's so that, that's, that's a person like

Rich Ziade:

is.

Rich Ziade:

That's a profound thing you're saying, which, you know, we could

Rich Ziade:

end this podcast because it's so big, which is, uh, it isn't about

Rich Ziade:

you, even though you are the creator.

Paul Ford:

this is the hardest, and it sounds like a like, oh, well, you

Paul Ford:

know, of course I'm not full of myself.

Paul Ford:

But you'd be amazed at how baked in the identification of yourself

Paul Ford:

with the things you do and put out into the world is, and until you've.

Paul Ford:

Just received the indifference of the world five or 6, 10, 15 times As that

Paul Ford:

slap across the face with the back of the hand, uh, it's really hard cuz you

Paul Ford:

really think, you're like, no, I get it.

Paul Ford:

I get it.

Paul Ford:

I'm gonna pace it.

Paul Ford:

And what I do now is I just sort of prepare for.

Paul Ford:

A little sense of gloom and, and anxiety on the other side of any launch date.

Rich Ziade:

I, I, I think that's, I, I, I wouldn't say gloom.

Rich Ziade:

Uh, I, I, I think recalibrating your expectations around how people are

Rich Ziade:

gonna react, um, is really healthy and really smart because it could

Rich Ziade:

crush you two and a half years.

Rich Ziade:

Uh, and I hope the team, which is an amazing team at a board,

Rich Ziade:

um, listens to this podcast and doesn't latch on like this.

Rich Ziade:

Launch as judgment day of any sort.

Rich Ziade:

Like that's not what it is.

Rich Ziade:

First off, it won't be about you.

Rich Ziade:

It will be about why it didn't work for them in their world, in their

Rich Ziade:

kitchen, on their kitchen table.

Paul Ford:

May not have found the users yet,

Rich Ziade:

whatever it is, right?

Rich Ziade:

But the point is it can, I mean, you've worked on a movie for four years

Rich Ziade:

and then you release it and it just, Hits like a, it was just a thud and

Rich Ziade:

nobody, and it's just two stars every, nobody hated it, but nobody loved it.

Paul Ford:

No, your, your child went through puberty.

Paul Ford:

You weren't, you weren't home.

Paul Ford:

You were filming the movie.

Rich Ziade:

crushing.

Rich Ziade:

You know, I always think about the front row seats at the Academy Awards, like

Rich Ziade:

they're very like just iconic actors and directors and producers, but also

Rich Ziade:

the ones they think did the best work.

Rich Ziade:

And I've seen that award ceremony where the, the.

Rich Ziade:

The winner, the, the filmmakers got the front row seat but

Rich Ziade:

never got up cuz they didn't win

Paul Ford:

Yes.

Rich Ziade:

And I've seen it and it's a strange thing.

Rich Ziade:

It's like, well I'm here, let me tell you something, just cuz you

Rich Ziade:

got there and you got the front row.

Rich Ziade:

The fact that you didn't win makes it all feel like a failure.

Rich Ziade:

Right.

Rich Ziade:

And that's just us and

Paul Ford:

Oh, I never look, everybody gets it.

Paul Ford:

Like you go home and you, you know, yell at somebody and

Paul Ford:

then you go like, I'm sorry.

Paul Ford:

I'm just upset.

Paul Ford:

It's a silly night.

Paul Ford:

It's stupid.

Paul Ford:

Whole thing.

Paul Ford:

Stupid.

Paul Ford:

And then you gotta go back and make another one.

Rich Ziade:

and you gotta go back and make another one.

Rich Ziade:

And so I think what you're saying here is such a big deal, which is you

Rich Ziade:

think, let's focus on software for a, a

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

Software is not a form of expression.

Paul Ford:

No.

Paul Ford:

It's a tool that people use to express themselves.

Rich Ziade:

Exactly.

Rich Ziade:

And when you make them feel powerful, and there are examples

Rich Ziade:

of this where people feel smart,

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Rich Ziade:

productive, powerful, knowledgeable, they then, then

Rich Ziade:

they'll flatter your software and they'll become advocates for

Rich Ziade:

it.

Rich Ziade:

But until then,

Paul Ford:

well, then it becomes theirs.

Paul Ford:

It's not, it's not yours.

Paul Ford:

It's never yours.

Paul Ford:

That's the thing.

Paul Ford:

It's never great.

Rich Ziade:

Great.

Rich Ziade:

Software is appropriated.

Paul Ford:

Let me go back to something I said a little earlier cuz I think

Paul Ford:

it's a, the, the point I wanna make, and this is the advice part, right?

Paul Ford:

So prepare for the emotional release of launch.

Paul Ford:

I'm at a point in my career, you and I have worked together a long time.

Paul Ford:

I do not expect our launch day to actually be radically

Paul Ford:

different than many other days.

Paul Ford:

I'm gonna have to send about 20 emails to people, so I'm like, that'll be my job.

Paul Ford:

But, and I, you.

Paul Ford:

The reason I don't think I'm gonna feel very gloomy because I

Paul Ford:

actually we're on a good product.

Paul Ford:

We have a plan for post-launch.

Paul Ford:

We have a product roadmap after what

Paul Ford:

wanna

Rich Ziade:

to do.

Rich Ziade:

We are realistic about the fact that it's just this way.

Rich Ziade:

Point in the journey of the thing.

Paul Ford:

and this is, people are definitely putting in more hours right

Paul Ford:

now, but we we're, we've worked hard not to burn everybody out, so it's

Paul Ford:

like we're gonna lean back in and just like everybody can take a breath and

Paul Ford:

then let's, let's get back to work.

Paul Ford:

And I think that that's a good feeling.

Paul Ford:

I'm looking forward to it.

Paul Ford:

The other thing too is, And this, this is the real advice cuz I've

Paul Ford:

done this and it's not great.

Paul Ford:

You can get a little gloomy or be like, well, you know, poof.

Paul Ford:

You know that's life.

Paul Ford:

Sometimes things work and sometimes they don't.

Paul Ford:

A little too early to tell, but Well boy, didn't quite

Paul Ford:

get a lot of response on this.

Paul Ford:

Now is not the moment for truthful irony.

Paul Ford:

Post-launch now is the moment to spackle the biggest 1942 Broadway show.

Paul Ford:

Smile on your face.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

And say, I couldn't be more pleased with how this is going.

Paul Ford:

Team has worked so hard cuz there's a lot of people looking at you

Paul Ford:

going like, what do they think?

Paul Ford:

And what I think is, no matter what happens on that

Paul Ford:

launch day, this is a success.

Rich Ziade:

Oh, that's a, I mean, it

Rich Ziade:

is,

Paul Ford:

but it doesn't matter.

Paul Ford:

It doesn't matter what I feel.

Rich Ziade:

doesn't matter what you feel.

Paul Ford:

That is what I'm saying, and I'm gonna retrofit my

Paul Ford:

beliefs to that emotional reaction.

Paul Ford:

Like, I'm gonna end up believing that, and that's gonna be

Paul Ford:

really good for the product.

Rich Ziade:

me tack on a bonus piece of advice to your

Paul Ford:

Mm-hmm.

Paul Ford:

Which is,

Rich Ziade:

is I think.

Rich Ziade:

It, it's definitely a footnote cuz what you said was, was really big and profound

Rich Ziade:

and requires you to put your ego aside, especially if you're an entrepreneur.

Rich Ziade:

Like entrepreneurs do a really good job working out their egos,

Rich Ziade:

Like they're very good at it.

Rich Ziade:

Um, sort of little mini piece of advice next to which is

Rich Ziade:

do not try to rationalize.

Rich Ziade:

The lack of love or recognition by trying to explain away how everyone else got

Rich Ziade:

it wrong or isn't understanding it.

Rich Ziade:

The world.

Paul Ford:

not.

Paul Ford:

their fault.

Rich Ziade:

The world is the world and everything.

Rich Ziade:

You wanna be successful in business.

Rich Ziade:

I'm gonna, here we go.

Rich Ziade:

Here's the airport Hudson News business book.

Rich Ziade:

Start up your own business book ready.

Rich Ziade:

Everything is your fault.

Paul Ford:

mean, that's that.

Paul Ford:

I've been working with you for years.

Paul Ford:

You, you live it.

Paul Ford:

You believe it.

Rich Ziade:

Everything is your fault.

Paul Ford:

especially when it comes to our relationship.

Paul Ford:

Absolutely.

Rich Ziade:

No one wants to be told that, Hey, listen, that

Rich Ziade:

I know you used to like that

Paul Ford:

you want to talk a launch

Rich Ziade:

off the the burger, but a smaller one will be lower

Rich Ziade:

for your cares cholesterol.

Rich Ziade:

I sat on that drive through for 11 minutes.

Rich Ziade:

You're gonna gimme a proper slice of cheese on

Paul Ford:

Rich, you want to know a business book that would fail upon lunch?

Paul Ford:

What that one?

Paul Ford:

It's the message that absolutely nobody wants to hear, right?

Rich Ziade:

Everything is your fault.

Rich Ziade:

Success is nothing other than navigating out of failure again and

Rich Ziade:

again until you're away from it all.

Paul Ford:

Look, it's tricky, right?

Paul Ford:

Because at some level, launch is meaningless.

Rich Ziade:

It is.

Rich Ziade:

It is.

Paul Ford:

It's a story.

Paul Ford:

It's a story you're gonna tell and it's a change in the story.

Paul Ford:

And

Rich Ziade:

we, we are, look, we're talking about software

Rich Ziade:

mostly cuz that's what

Paul Ford:

are.

Paul Ford:

and, restaurants and gastro pubs.

Rich Ziade:

launching a restaurant, Is very different than launching a, like

Rich Ziade:

once you launch a movie and it's done and

Paul Ford:

you can't go back,

Rich Ziade:

film, you kind of can't go back.

Rich Ziade:

I've seen restaurants Bob and Weave

Paul Ford:

no, this is real.

Paul Ford:

Software is like a restaurant.

Paul Ford:

We can change the menu.

Rich Ziade:

We can change the menu, you can change the signage.

Rich Ziade:

There's a restaurant near us that, for whatever reason, I'm

Rich Ziade:

not even sure why repaints the out storefront like every five months.

Paul Ford:

want to name it because, but like we, we go there first of every

Paul Ford:

time you and I go there, there's a major issue with HVAC and we're freezing.

Rich Ziade:

and we, but the, the food is pretty good,

Paul Ford:

pretty good,

Rich Ziade:

but they keep painting it.

Paul Ford:

They paint it yellow and then they don't heat it.

Paul Ford:

It's really upsetting.

Rich Ziade:

it's upsetting, but I look credit to the man or the woman

Rich Ziade:

who owns that restaurant for kind of

Rich Ziade:

willing to, to just send the software patch out

Paul Ford:

over and over and over again now, and the users.

Paul Ford:

It's like getting, it's like Windows Vista updates that

Rich Ziade:

kind of wild, And so unlike a movie, which you know, you

Rich Ziade:

can't revise, you really can't revise

Paul Ford:

I mean, you can, you could do the director's cut, but that's only

Paul Ford:

if it was successful the first time.

Paul Ford:

They don't let you make,

Rich Ziade:

directors don't.

Rich Ziade:

You want some more?

Paul Ford:

They don't make like wild hogs too.

Paul Ford:

Director's cut.

Paul Ford:

Right.

Paul Ford:

Like,

Rich Ziade:

Um, so it's, it's on you and, and just be forgiving what you're

Rich Ziade:

saying and another way of saying what you're saying, which is for,

Rich Ziade:

you know, just be a little forgiving for yourself and your team, right?

Rich Ziade:

You're not gonna get it all right?

Rich Ziade:

The world is crazy

Paul Ford:

Yes.

Rich Ziade:

the world is gonna want what it wants.

Paul Ford:

Last bit of advice to that end, and then, then we'll, we'll, uh,

Rich Ziade:

This is a three pack.

Rich Ziade:

Three

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Last bit of advice is upon launch, you'll receive an enormous amount of

Paul Ford:

feedback if you're lucky, and you should safely ignore all of the first wave.

Paul Ford:

because the first wave that comes in tends to be friends and family with

Paul Ford:

agenda and they kind of know the space and they have opinions and thoughts.

Paul Ford:

Those aren't your users.

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Those are, those are people who mean well.

Paul Ford:

Yes.

Paul Ford:

And that is really different than your users.

Paul Ford:

Yes.

Paul Ford:

Your users are gonna shut stumbling later drunk and be like, why

Paul Ford:

does it, I don't, it's blue.

Paul Ford:

What?

Paul Ford:

And, and then you're gonna have to listen and figure out, out what they really want,

Paul Ford:

cuz they don't know what to tell you.

Paul Ford:

The person who can confidently tell you what they think should

Paul Ford:

come next is an absolute risk in the first couple of months.

Rich Ziade:

It's a great point.

Rich Ziade:

And you know, the, the pioneering UX designer Alan Cooper used

Rich Ziade:

to say, users with ideas and feedback are far less valuable.

Rich Ziade:

Then the observations you make of a user just using a thing quietly.

Rich Ziade:

Right.

Paul Ford:

The phrase I use is monkey with a hammer.

Paul Ford:

You just wanna watch the monkey hit the thing with the hammer

Paul Ford:

Yeah.

Paul Ford:

Yes.

Paul Ford:

Then you see I'm monkey really is hitting it hard with a hammer.

Paul Ford:

Um, alright, so, so just to recap, get ready to be depressed.

Paul Ford:

Don't listen to anyone.

Rich Ziade:

It's all your fault.

Paul Ford:

and it's all your fault.

Paul Ford:

So

Rich Ziade:

Congratulations on your launch.

Paul Ford:

Yeah, you guys did a great job.

Paul Ford:

You're successful entrepreneurs.

Paul Ford:

Can't wait to see where this goes.

Rich Ziade:

Um, Hit us up.

Rich Ziade:

We are ziti and ford advisor ziti ford.com and at Zdi Ford on Twitter.

Rich Ziade:

Subscribe wherever, uh, and check out a board our sponsor.

Rich Ziade:

Uh, full disclosure, we are the founders of a board a board.com.

Rich Ziade:

Sign up for the beta, you'll get access very soon.

Paul Ford:

I think everybody's okay with that ambiguity.

Paul Ford:

Uh, thanks everybody.

Paul Ford:

Yeah, get, get in there and in and really in like a couple weeks.

Paul Ford:

We're gonna wave you in.

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