Threading Change is on a mission to take the fashion industry from “fast and furious” to “slow and sustainable.” This youth-led powerhouse is all about stitching together a world where your clothes don’t cost the Earth (literally). They champion circular economies, climate justice, and feminism while calling out the fashion faux pas of the fast fashion industry. By empowering brands, policymakers, and everyday shoppers to rethink what they wear, Threading Change is proving that ethical fashion isn’t just trendy—it’s the future.

Sophia Yang

Sophia is the Founder & Executive Director of Threading Change, the world's leading youth-led ethical fashion and circular economy organization. Threading Change specializes in facilitating creative events, convening unlikely allies, and initiating valuable industry and citizen connections to co-create a fashion industry that is equitable, youth-driven, and climate-resilient. Sophia also dedicates her time to working as a Corporate Campaigner at Canopy Planet, collaborating alongside the world's leading fashion and consumer packaged goods brands to ensure that ancient forests are kept out of supply chains. Sophia is the recipient of the City of Vancouver's Greenest City Leadership Award in 2022, Corporate Knights’ Top 30 Under 30 Sustainability Leaders in Canada list in 2021, Starfish Canada’s Top 25 Under 25 Environmentalists award in 2017 and 2018, has attended the United Nations Climate Change Conference four times, and DJs as 'KALEIDO' in her spare time.

Sophia's Facebook page

@threadingchange on Instagram

Sophia's Website

Sophia's Website

@threadingchange on X

Sophia on YouTube

We talk to visionaries and game-changers who are doing things differently; using their businesses to do more good in the world. Join us as we dive into the stories and strategies of companies driven by purpose, not just profit. Each episode uncovers unique strategies, challenges, and the deeply satisfying rewards of using business as a platform for change. We offer listeners practical insights on building businesses that are not only successful but also socially and environmentally conscious. You really can make both profit and a positive impact—come join us to find out how others are doing just that.

Leena Manro is an award-winning writer, director, and co-founder of All Purpose, an award winning B Corp-certified creative agency based in Vancouver. As VP of Strategy and Storytelling, she leads an in-house team that creates powerful, purpose-driven media for corporate clients. With over a decade of experience, Leena has directed hundreds of narrative projects across diverse genres, earning awards for their cinematic quality and storytelling depth.

Leena is driven by a passion to make a meaningful difference in her community, environment and the planet. She’s drawn to collaborating with people and initiatives that strive to make the world a better place.

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Leena Manro 0:00

Welcome to Up to So Good, the podcast that unlocks the secrets of creating a purpose driven business so we can all make this world a better place. Come join the conversation. Hello and welcome to Up to So Good, the podcast that explores the purpose of business. I'm your host. Leena Manro, now we all know that it's no secret that the fashion industry is not exactly the most environmentally sustainable or socially responsible, and that's where my next guest, Sophia Yang comes in. She's the founder and director of Threading Change. It's the first global youth led NGO that focuses on three main aspects in order to make change, and that is education, consultation as well as innovation. They envision a future that embraces feminism and a fossil fuel free fashion industry. Now, you don't have to be somebody who's super interested in fashion to appreciate this episode. We talk about fashion, yes, but we talk about sustainability and the environment and what, what the youth are doing about it. In fact, the sweater you're wearing might just pollute your drinking water and filling up with microplastics. We'll be talking about that and much more. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to up to so good the podcast that explores the purpose of business. I'm your host, Leena Manro, and today we have a wonderful, exciting guest with us, Sophia Yang from Threading Change. She is the founder and the executive director of Threading Change. Welcome to our show.

Sophia Yang 1:21

Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Leena Manro 1:23

Well, I love this, because the topic we're gonna explore is fashion. Fashion, fashion, fashion, like, super fun, super awesome. Personally, kind of like one of my favorite topics, mine too. Yeah, I don't feel like I'm like, I'm not even all that fashionable.

Sophia Yang 1:40

No, I noticed this outfit right away. Yeah, that looks amazing.

Leena Manro 1:42

I enjoy it. I like to, you know, look nice. And I think something that you talk a little bit on your website is, you know, about fashion being kind of this way of self expression. I totally agree with that. I think so many people that resonates so much with people. But before we go into the depths of the fashion, fashion, fashion, fashion, fashion sustainability, fashion fun. You know, all this stuff. Let's talk about Threading Change. What is Threading Change?

Sophia Yang 2:07

Yeah, for sure. So Threading Change is the world's leading youth led ethical fashion, a circular economy organization. We are a non for profit, but we call ourselves very much a social purpose organization, and our mission is what we call the six F's, which is a feminist, fossil fuel free fashion future.

Leena Manro 2:24

Wow, that's a lot. Okay, yeah, let's break it down, yeah. So the first line Threading Change is what, what kind of a youth led.

Sophia Yang 2:31

So we are the world's largest and leading ethical fashion NGO NGO NGO. Yeah. There's a lot of fashion organizations or fashion brands and companies out there, right? Yeah, but there's less fashion NGOs, and there's even less fully youth led and by youth NGOs working in fashion. It's very important that youth are engaged adequately in this topic area, because of our purchasing power, right? And how much trends and consumerism is mass marketed to us. So really launched a company to want to give young people a voice.

Leena Manro 2:58

Okay? So, I mean, I know about NGOs. There's all kinds of NGOs out there trying to do a lot of good in the world. The truth is, I don't know much about a fashion NGO. Is that a popular area for NGOs to be in? Are you one of you said you're one of the first. You are the first youth led Yeah. But are you one of the first in general?

Sophia Yang 3:17

No, there's definitely. There's more and more and more fashion, not for profits. And the thing with fashion is there's so many topic areas you can work in, right? Whether it's circular, sourcing, human rights, due diligence, fair pay, there's definitely a lot of kind of, like two categories is like environmental fashion NGOs, that work in, like recycling, and then there's like the human rights fashion NGOs, but they oftentimes work in silos. So that's why I created Threading Change really we look at the intersectionality of fashion engaging young people in the process.

Leena Manro 3:45

Okay, so yours is not so siloed. You're looking at both the sustainability as well as the social aspect of it, right? Yeah. Okay, so that that's that's really powerful. Thank you for explaining that. But I don't know if people are so aware the fashion industry is a dirty industry? Yeah, it's dirty, really it is. It's dirty for the planet and it's dirty for the people. Yeah, it doesn't have to be that way.

Sophia Yang 4:07

Yeah. I mean, one of our core values is definitely placing people before profits. Okay? Because we're also an organization that has entire, uh, woman and bipoc led team, for example, all of our board members are from garment heavy producing countries. wow, that typically have been really affected by the fashion industry, like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Vietnam. So really seek to place the people at the epicenter of the industry that the fashion industry has forgotten, right? It's a lot of trends are produced in Europe and North America, mass marketed, and then all the textile waste dumping goes to Africa, goes to South America and Chile.

Leena Manro 4:07

Sophia Yang 5:13

Yeah, so we launched a company when I was still in my early 20s.

Leena Manro 5:17

Okay, yeah, you're still in your 20s. Did we just heard? 20s. Do we have a teen here in our interview chair? But okay, let's, let's back up. How did this even start? What was your inspiration? Because you're the founder, you created this. Yeah, so did you just sort of wake up one day, you're like, I'm so sick of this nonsense. And you know, I believe you were, you were out of the country and something inspired you. Yeah, talk about that.

Sophia Yang 5:44

Leena Manro 6:49

I haven't had that experience, but I actually really love thrifted clothes,yeah, my favorite thing to do. I love specifically consignment stores, you know, because those are super, super curated, yeah, but I haven't had that experience, but I'm gonna dig into pockets. Maybe I haven't checked, I don't know, but the experience of wearing something from a vintage store, consignment or thrifted, and getting tons of compliments, heck yeah, yeah, tons. Yeah, people notice. And there is, there's such a personality, yeah, in these true and there's like, this is gonna sound kind of maybe hokey, maybe it's a little woo woo, I don't know, but I feel like certain items have been so loved, yes, and it's like, you put them on, you can feel the love, and, you know, you wear them, and all of a sudden it's, yeah, like, I had these jeans that they were I mean, I think I still might have them, actually. I think now they're in my, my, like, giveaway pile, but I've had them for, you know, over a decade, and they were all embroidered. And so I don't know if somebody just hand embroidered or did something on the legs, but yeah, I've never seen anything unique, like that type of Yeah, you know, yeah, but yeah, my favorite items are also Yeah, you know, thrifted and,

Sophia Yang 7:53

And I want to go back to what you said about the uniqueness component in the history, right? So I had this notion in my mind where, wow, we should all be viewing our clothing not as commodities, but as stories. And I and then I thought about the pair of shoes that I wore when my mom and I first immigrated to from China to Canada. I still have that pair of sneakers in my mom's basement. And just like the stories and the awe when I was eight years old of going to those like foreign place and meeting new people, and there's so much history that has to be embedded in our clothing and mass market trends and consumerism, and just always shopping has really taught us and bought us away from that. So I made it my mission to essentially only shop secondhand or only vintage or thrift or do clothing swaps. And I think my style evolution also began.

Leena Manro 8:39

Okay, first of all, I love what you said about every every item, every item we wear, being a story that's so beautiful. And when you get clothing from vintage or thrifted places, absolutely, that's a story. And you really can tell the difference, you know, like, I find, like, the most unique outfits and most beautiful ones. Yeah, I would have been the one complimenting you as you were walking down the street, because, you know, like, it's true. I mean, you don't see that in department stores because of fast fashion or whatever. But tell me about the outfit you're wearing right now, and we'll describe it for the listeners at home, because it's very lovely, unique and just you're so well put together. So we'll start with so you're wearing, basically, it's a long black dress with some gorgeous brown boots, yes, and then this really cute top with several colors. Now for those listeners who are just listening and you want to actually see the outfit, I would say go onto YouTube, find us and look at how lovely and well put together. This outfit is okay. So describe to me each piece, please.

Sophia Yang 9:40

So this top I got in Brooklyn, New York, last month when I was there for a climate week. It was, I was just in Manhattan for the conference, and the last day, I was like, I need to go to Brooklyn's one of my favorite cities. The place is called Awoke Vintage. And this piece is actually made from a recycled burlap sack that used to hold fruits, likeit used to hold apples. So there's like apple details on it. So it's like a vintage, vintage sack is like the brand, and they have, like bags ofwhole, like pears and oranges on the design.

Sophia Yang 9:52

And those are the most fashionable sacks. What? How can a sack be so cool, yeah?

Just like a fabric that I repurpose. It has some wooden buttons on it, which I love. And then I paired it with this long black dress from COS. I love the long black dress, yeah, so I've been going to so many conferences the last year where I need clothes I can, like, you know, wear to a conference, but then wear it to cocktail hours, yes, yes, yes, party. So, like, I like repurposing items. Um, so this dress is made with next gen fibers and next gen,

Sorry, next gen? Like, next generation. Or is that one word, next gen.

Next is short for next generation. Okay, yeah, I'll talk about a bit more into this later, but it's essentially fibers that are made from recycled materials. Amazing, yeah, oh my God, that's a fully so there's a fully recycled dress.

You know that blows my mind that you can do that. You can actually recycle fibers and get them into clothing. Yes, oh, yeah. Oh my god. Okay, sorry, I'm going to inhale coffee again. That's such an exciting That's so incredible. Yeah, um, so, and then tell me about the boots.

Yeah. So the top and the dress are both, um, recycled with recycled materials. The boots are from Vagabond shoes. Is one of my favorite brands. Is this really nice brown kind of like, wow. Riding shoe and it, I've worked so many conferences and parties,

They are so cool. She gets 10 out of 10, out of 10 on a 10 on how she looks. But, but what was it that made you think I need to do this? I need to launch an NGO? Yeah? Because that's a big like, a lot of people will get it in their mind that, Oh, my God, I need to do something. And most of them might change their buying habits, which is something anyone can do it's a very rare individual who's like, well, you know what, I'm just gonna start a company.

Yeah, I would say for me. So I had in mind I want a secondhand shop and thrift everything. And I was noticing how, you know, Vancouver, actually, a lot of brands from Vancouver, right? Like, Lululemon is massive. So I was like, okay, Vancouver. Like, Arc'teryx from North Van. So I was like, There's fashion brands in Vancouver. So I try to engage in sustainable fashion, but I was hard to engage on the corporate side, because I was still relatively young in my early 20s. And I went to a few sustainable fashion events like clothing swaps. But everything was very high level. Everything was just about, like, swap, like, just swap. And I, you know, I felt there has to be more than just swapping and shopping less because, like, that's something the consumers are doing, yes, but the brands also need to be held accountable, right? So how can I drive change in that way? And was your background in fashion? Not at all. My background was in Environmental Science and Forestry. Oh, my God. At UBC. Yeah.

Okay, there you go. Very connected to fashion. It actually is, yeah, between

forest and fashion. So So I was, like, a bit dismayed. I felt like there was this lacking in the ethical fashion space in Vancouver, because it's hard to engage with the big brands. So then in 2018 I was really growing into my being a climate activist as well. That was my first year attending the UN climate conference. So COP24 it was in Poland, and I was a youth delegate with the British Columbia council for international cooperation. Huge, huge acronym. And, you know, a lot of the people there were very much like leaders, like BC, youth leaders in the climate space. And it was, I remember when the delegation lead asked us we were interested in and everyone had something. Someone said nature based solutions, someone said civic engagement, someone said climate finance, someone said public health. And they came to me, and I was kind of like, I'm interested in everything, because climate is very much an all encompassing issue, right? I'm interested in renewable energy, indigenous people's platforms, kind of adaptation. So I was like, I guess I'll just follow along, like all these topics. And the first, my first COP conference, it was really overwhelming to try and follow everything, right? So I told myself, the end of that conference, when I go again, I want to zone in on one topic, and I'm gonna spend the next year figuring out what that topic is. So when I went again, the second time, which was COP25 in Madrid, I remember being on the plane on the way from Vancouver to Madrid. First time in Spain, I was very excited. And then I was looking at all the side events they had, and it was over 500 side events. And I was like, You know what? The last year I really committed to only buying secondhand and not buying anything new, and thrifting. I'm going to look at events on fashion. That's what I'm going to focus on. At the conference, I did a control F search. Guess how many events there was on fashion at the world's largest climate conference?

Not many. It was one. Oh my god.

It was one out of 500. Wow, in fashion. And I was like, Okay. And

yet, do you know the stats like, what's the in terms of the biggest contributors to, sort of, our climate issues and Earth issues? What would fashion be in terms of the rankings?

So fashion currently generates about eight to 10% of global greenhouse gas emissions, okay, that's more than the maritime and the shipping industry combined.

Amazing. And there was one event, one event, okay, yeah, well, yeah, that means that there's, there's a, there's need for change.

This was 2019, right? So went to the that one event, and it was the one year anniversary signing of the UN Sustainable fashion charter. So I remember sitting in the audience, and there were all these, you know, representatives from major banks and major fashion brands there, and they were all up there, and they were saying, Today, we're coming at you with this landmark agreement that is the first time industry and like, fashion industry and government are working together. And I was like, I don't know if it was the first time, but okay, working together to really combat the like the fashion industry, where the harmful effects of it, and they said, and, and I noticed that the focus area of this event was all just talking about emissions reduction. It was all from a climate mitigation perspective, how we can reduce, yeah, but there was no mention of garment workers, no mentions about the human dimensions of fashion, yeah? Like due diligence, fair pay, living wages, working conditions. And I noticed they kept using this word next generation, but they were not saying in terms of next generation. They were looking to be engaging next generation that's like youth and myself. I'm looking to this other youth from Amsterdam sitting beside me, and no one on that stage is a young person represented talking about fashion. No one up there was a person of color that is actually from a garment producing country, from a country where clothing is dumped. And everyone up there was, you know, the exact people talking about how great they're doing are the ones that are the most responsible for the problem. So the session really felt like it was them saying, you know, look at us and look, look how it's like if you had a glass of milk and you spilled it, and you said, Look at me, everyone. And what a great job of doing cleaning up this glass of milk that you spilled. Yeah, it's not anything revolutionary. It's your responsibility. So from that moment, I left that event feeling really dismayed and just thinking, like, I have to do something about this.

Incredible. And then look at what you did. You created a movement. Yeah. Okay. So then what were the next steps? What happened? You wanted to create something? And then,

Yeah, then I remember, I was like, Okay, well, you know, in like, the industry spaces, young people are not represented. Maybe in the youth spaces at COP in these conferences, young people are talking about fashion and circular economy. So I did some digging. I went to several different meetings and events, and, you know, there was, like, youth working groups for renewable energy come adaptation, nothing on fashion, nothing on circular economy. So I was like, Okay, there's a gap there as well. So when I came back, I had this thought in my mind, and start to kind of do some research, because I'm a huge um proponent of collaboration instead of competition. I do not want to reinvent the wheel. I want to be collaborative, and also just bring in allies and see the further change we can bring together. Did a lot of research, and I could not find a youth led ethical fashion organization. I just, I just couldn't. I did a lot of research. I talked to over 100 practitioners in Vancouver, Canada. Went around the globe that didn't exist. The closest thing was Fashion Revolution and Remake. That are amazing fashion NGOs. They work a lot in the intersectionality, fashion sustainability and human rights components as well. But it's not necessarily youth led, right? There's young people in the network, but they're not It's not youth focused. And I'll say one of the other reasons that I really thought it's very important to engage young people is that in the US alone, like age 12 to 25 I think the statistic is there's a $490 billion purchasing power is what young people have. And young people are some of the biggest consumers of micro trends, right and driving all of this fashion consumption with the growth of TikTok and Instagram and social media. But when it comes to engaging young people in fashion, all that brands ever care about is like, how can we market to Gen Z? Like, how can we, how we market to you to sell more product? But we have so much more to contribute than just with our money, right? Young people are innovators. We're visionaries, and we're going to be the leaders and regulators of not just tomorrow, but today of right now. And if you don't engage us, then how are we ever going to have a seat at the table to really think about all these important decisions going to affect our lives right now in the future? So I was thinking about all this and doing my research, and then COVID hit, and my job that was, I was working at an organization where I was leading a lot of social innovation labs. So it was how, like social innovation and purpose built into my DNA, and all the labs were in person. Okay? So because of COVID, my work hours got significantly reduced because everything moved to zoom right now, I had all this free time, and I was like, Okay, this almost feels like it's an opportunity here. So I was just, I did a lot of research, and I was like, okay, there actually isn't really a youth led fashion NGO was my experience. And the one day, I thought, what if I started one? And that's how I got here. Started it, yeah, yeah. I had a lot of experience from, like, working social innovation labs, and I've been a climate activist since I was 12, since David Suzuki inspired me. So I had a lot of background, and been a lot of in youth climate spaces, where I hadresources and people I could talk to to really figure out how to do it. Had some good mentors as well. But I really will say that event in Madrid really lit a fire under me to really change incredible the way that the industry is going.

Okay. So what exactly does Threading Change do? Because I believe there's three major ways that you, you contribute, I believe I'm not remembering all of it, but one was about innovation, and then there's also consultation, consultation, right? Yeah, and

education, education, yeah, we call the shins, yeah, yes, that's a good question. So our tri impact model is the is education, innovations through storytelling and also consultation legislation. Education through storytelling. Education innovation through storytelling. Oh, gotcha. Education innovation through storytelling. And then consultation legislation, yeah, legislation. So tell me about the education piece. What kinds of things do you do in that space? Yeah. So this was kind of like the first arm that we really dove hard into. So we do a lot of online programming and webinars, because COVID, right? Everything was online, yeah, we also do in person workshops to schools. We've taught students as young as six to seniors as old as 98/90 plus, because we used to work with Suzuki elders in person and online. And we also have our one of our premier programs, a launch this year that's grown globally, which I'm so proud of, which is called the Fair Fashion Festival.

The Fair Fashion Festival, yes, I want to go to this fair fashion festival. Yeah. So what is this?

Yeah. So it's FFF for short, and it's really looking at how we can examine intersectionality of fashion, of both, you know, social doing social good and environmental components. So talking about, talks about was diversion, emissions reduction, but also human rights, fair pay and living conditions and engaging young people and intergenerationally process. Where is this health so? So I love this question, because something about Threading Change is we started in Vancouver and but now we're very global, but when cool will always be home, we actually incubate a lot of our initial programs in Vancouver, using it as a testing ground. Yeah, when it goes really well, then we do it in other cities. So

She's brilliant. Isn't Sophia brilliant? You are brilliant. Oh my gosh, powerhouse woman, all the things that you've said in the last like seven minutes, you know, I've just in my mind is blown. So I'm like, how is she putting all this together? And you're just brilliant. Okay, sorry to interrupt. So Vancouver is going to be the incubator. I just think that idea is so brilliant as well, to incubate and test before you launch on a global scale. Because I think people fail very fast when they go too far, too quick, without first testing in a smaller way. This particular I'm gonna guess the festival is gonna be here?

Yeah. So we, we did our first one in Vancouver this April as part of Fashion Revolution week. We did it at Slice of Life gallery. So it's on Commercial and Venables and I wanted to do it there, because my journey started from walking up and down Commercial and people saying, I like your outfit, and that just led me.

Do you want to do one event here? You should, oh, my God, to remind some of the listeners. I don't know if you know how you're watching this or listening to this, but this podcast is is actually an extension of All Purpose, our our creative agency. We're a design agency, and we do a website and media and all of this stuff, and we have this beautiful space, very beautiful in the heart of downtown. Yeah, it's 100 year old building. It's a heritage building, and we're filming inside an actual bank vault. The reason being that, you know what, there's some secrets to good business. It's time to share. Plus the audio is really good in the vault. So yeah, there's that. But, I mean, let's talk about this after you think, well, this would be a great place to host a powerful and purposeful and beautiful event like this.

Yeah, let's chat. That would be amazing.

So I feel like, I feel like, you know, the more we do things in community and collaboratively and together, like the bigger, stronger impact we can we can make of people. I mean, how valuable for you, is it to partner and really like, do you find that that's also a valuable way, or do you feel like, you know, people don't understand your vision? You want to go at this alone? What do you think?

Yeah, no, I think collaboration is definitely extremely important, and it's very vital to our organization. I think we've really gotten where we are today because of collaboration. So I was highlighting one of the key components of the fair fashion festival is we always have a collaborator for every event. So for the Vancouver one that was this April, the collaborator was connecting environmental professionals Vancouver chapter. So there was a really rich discussion about fashion careers and also change makers journey. And then that event went really well that we then brought the festival to Toronto in August, and we did a full fledged fair fashion festival in Toronto in mid August. We had about over 400 attendees come. And that event the collaborator was Oxfam Canada, which was an amazing collaborator, and that event, because with Oxfam, the big focus was on garment workers rights and also human rights. It was always a theme for every FFF, yeah. And then after that, we had FFF. In Halifax. It was at Dalhousie University, so a lot of young people went. And we also had speakers and panelists from the National Association for charitable textile recycling, Nectar, and then people from environment, Climate Change Canada. So there was a huge focus on youth policy.

Beautiful. And so what will be for this year, for January? Yeah.

So the next fair fashion festival is next Saturday, and it's in Nairobi, Kenya. What? Yeah. Oh, wow, yeah.

Oh, wow. I've been to Nairobi. That's why I'm like, freaking out and is that? Isn't that where there's those giant markets of the used clothing and, oh,

yeah. So we have an entire Africa team. We do a lot of engagement in Kenya, all around Nairobi area. And a lot of the work that Africa team focuses on is on textile waste and diversion.

Because I think, from my understanding, I don't know for sure, some of the locals told me that it's a lot of textile waste resold, yes, and, and from I don't even remember, I'm gonna have to this is many, many, many years ago, and I don't know if we actually went to that particular market, or if I was just told about it, and I would have a vision in my head about this market, but I'm seeing, like, like, a huge array of of clothing, yeah? But it's all waste, it's all waste from North America more than Europe,

Yeah. And sometimes, like, I because my Africa regional lead, Janet, she's amazing. We went to Dubai last year together for the COPconference, she sent me pictures of the waste picking, and a lot of times the tag is still attached, brand new in a bag, brand new in a box. Never been worn. So, you know. So sometimes it could be possible that brands, they have unsold inventory and they want to get rid of it, so they just throw it away. We actually did a textile waste site tour last month where we brought 15 African youth and we did a tour of the dump site. Yeah, and you need to be wearing gum boots and protective goggles, because a lot of the clothing is on fire. What? Yeah, it's on fire, yeah, because it's very, very hot in Kenya, and it overheats. And a lot of clothing now is plastic. Well, there's plastics in clothing, right? Like polyester, microplastics and clothing, it catches on fire. There's like, toxic fumes. Like, it is a horrid site to behold. We really have made Africa and also Chile fashion's wasteland.

Oh. Yeah, okay. My understanding was that in those markets, I understood that it was sort of like the waste but I didn't know, are people going into garbage dumps and pulling out the clothes that they want to sell, or is it donated? Well, yes,

that's a good question. So if you went to one, near Nairobi, it's the Gikomba market, okay? And then there's also one in Ghana as well, the Kantamanto Market. So typically, what people do is they get huge shipment of, like, huge bales. So these are just clothing that's been compressed and taken air out and this, like, huge, like, I don't even know the size, the size of a bale is probably the size of this vault right here. Okay, that's how big it is. Like, probably, like, three meters high by, like five meters wide of just, like, clothes. And they just drop it off a dump site, or they will take it to the market first, and then people can, like, dig through, find what's new, hasn't been worn, and then maybe that could be resold. But the majority of it just goes to the waste site directly, and when they drop the bales, there's all these plastic knots that tie the bales together. They're made out of plastic, and they're not recyclable, right? And when you go around the market, you just see and the dump site, you just see so much plastic lying around, because that was what's used to hold the clothes. And this always leeches into the waterways and the water systems, like there's clothing in the rivers. The rivers are like red it's it's a sight to behold, like we are really polluting so many components of of the global south because of our fashion consumption and greed. Yeah.

Has there ever been a documentary really explaining this and going deep into this space? Yeah.

So our, our first of, our first, I said, our second webinar season. What we did was called Clothes Busters in 2021 kind of like a whole watch, like Mythbusters, but like busting myths about clothing. We had the director of this film, I would highly recommend it, called True Blue, and is really talking about the impacts of the fashion industry on waterways. And they have footage from India, footage from different parts of Africa, like Ghana and also Kenya and also Bangladesh, talking about the effects of dyes, toxic dyes, in river systems. And it's called River Blue, sorry not True Blue, I'm confused with another documentary called True Cost, which a lot of people have seen, and that's a fashion documentary that it's a lot of people's first foray into, like understanding the fashion industry. So those two are really great places to start, and we've gotten the filmmakers of both of those documentaries to like, come to our events, which has been really good. But I would to turn this into a positive note, because I think you know something about the climate movement is it can get so depressing when we just focus on the issue, right, right? And that's also something that I feel like sometimes it's hard for, you know, it's hard for young people to. Access some of these spaces, because they're not always properly engaged.

Part of our mandate at All Purpose. It's also infusing positivity when and how we can that there is also, in addition to the fact there's a lot of ills happening in society, the way people are being taken advantage of, and the way the world and the planet is being taken advantage of but, you know, hurt people cause hurt too. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of souls and deep in people's hearts that are hurting. And so where we can also make change, but also have positivity and really kindness is so important. So in Threading Change, it feels like there's a lot of kindness in your organization as well. Can you comment on that and positivity actually?

Yeah, I feel so lucky to work with my best friends. I've built the most amazing team of young women and also very wise women in our board of advisors. And you know, we are. We talk about every it's amazing to be able to, I don't even say, is it going to work every day, it's we're changing the world every day. It's amazing to work with change makers and globe shakers. And you can talk about fashion and, you know, dismantling certain systems and sustainable investing in philanthropy, but then just be like, how was your day? Like, what's going on, right? Like, what are your partner doing? Like, it's just been so incredible to grow alongside these women. And we're very much at a horizontal organization. Everyone has a say in decisions. And we work across teams. We have most of the teams is like our education team, our development team, and then also a communications team, and then the Africa team, and we all collaborate to collaborate so incredibly well together. So that's been the best part about that. And I think also with fashion, um, no, we're working to keep a very corrupt industry accountable, right? And the reason why we founded our organization is we don't often see people that look like us represented in fashion, right? We don't, we don't see that many bipoc women represented that are from Asian countries where most of the clothing is produced. It's a lot of Eurocentric beauty standards. We're also here to dismantle that and show that it's possible to have this incredible cohort of women create this change. And that's why I'm so excited for the fair fashion festivals to go to more global places like in Nairobi, like here we are. We're doing this, and all the partners are African led and African based, and really honing in the importance of diversity. And then we're also taking the festival to other regions next year, to New York and also London, UK. So I'm just really excited to

I'm going to be following you. I'm gonna be in a few things. You shouldcome to one. You should either be a speaker, or I would love to, if you were doing what, especially anything in India. I mean, that's actually my, my heritage, you know, I guess, a child of an immigrant family that came from India, yeah, didn't, they didn't come my, my father especially, didn't come from much. But really, you know, it's very, it's a very, I guess, classic immigrant story, coming here and struggling and, you know, making a life for themselves here and for their five kids. Yeah, they just kept having children. And yeah, I'm one of them. And but we went back quite often, as much as we could. And I did more as an adult, because I love the language and the culture and the fashion, yeah, and the food. And then you also see the other side of it, where the influence of the West has affected and, you know, European standards, etc, has affected everything, yeah? And such a region that's so rich with beautiful cultural heritage has been, it's been diluted, yeah? And it's, it's kind of heartbreaking, yeah.

We actually have a chapter in Bangalore, and we've done events there, and I was actually invited to speak at a conference in Mumbai next week. What? But I had to turn it down just because of other work obligations that I'm going to another conference in LA.

So if you do want to go to Mumbai, I'll come with you. Okay, go. I haven't been there in such a long time I love it. Yeah, you know, everyone there speaks English now, but if you did need some Hindi help, I'd help.

Yeah, it felt amazing to do a fair fashion festival in Mumbai. Yeah, we do have a lot of volunteers in India, so that'd be amazing. Yeah, wow. Yeah.

Okay, so let's talk about even some of the material. Because I think the fashion industry is, is, is it wrong for me to say it's a bit of a dirty industry? It's always very dirty. It is very dirty. Yes, I don't think I like, I feel like people just don't know. Yeah, you know. Well, we're at a place now where people should know. There, if people are buying things online, I'm not gonna say which online company, okay, I think we all know. We know. Yes, oh, is the sheen of my outfit a little bit, bright?

I see it gleaming.

No, we know. I did not say any names. I did not say anything to get us in trouble, but we'll just say there are some fashion online stores where you can buy things for dirt cheap. Know that if you're buying something for dirt cheap, you're paying a huge human cost in that, an environmental cost and a human cost. Because nothing can be made that cheap, you know? And it's just, I don't know. I guess when people don't really, it's kind of out of sight, out of mind, and yeah, these times it's also very expensive for people because of inflation and cost of living, that there's this desire to buy something quick and cheap, yeah? But can, can you share how that's actually more expensive in the long run?

Yeah. So I would say for us, we want to make our programs very accessible, and because we're for youth by youth organization, you know, especially working a lot of students, young people, don't have the capability to shell out, like, $1,000 on this new bag or new jeans, right? Right? So I think one of the first things to say is, the most sustainable thing you can do is wear what you already have in your closet, but if you have to get something quote, unquote, new, think about shopping secondhand, because it's still new to you, right? It's not like a new item, but it's still new to use secondhand, clothing swaps, vintage shopping, different methods. And the third thing you can do, and you should always do this, is really take time to understand the materiality and the fabric composition of your clothes. What does it mean when it's cotton, when it's polyester, when it's a like nylon? Is it made with a manmade cellulosic fiber? With a what? So manmade cellulosic fiber, MMCFs, so MMCFs manmade cellulosic fibers. They're fibers made from cellulosic from trees, from trees, fibers from plants. Yeah, wow. And this is where my background and forestry linked together with my passion for fashion. Oh my gosh. So I actually, right now work with some of the world's largest companies, yes, helping them source better manmade cellulosic fibers, so ensuring that the materials in their supply chain that are coming from trees are not coming from ancient and endangered forests, right? Yeah, oh, yeah. So the material composition is huge, and as a consumer, once you better understand, a huge part of understanding is knowing how to read the label. So it's beyond just knowing to read. Like sometimes I feel like, before I got into fashion sustainably, I will really look at the wash and care instructions. But look beyond that. Where is it produced? Most of the time it's going to be made in China, Vietnam, Turkey, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, like an Asian country. Where is itproduced? The wash and care instructions? But where is the composition? If it's polyester, which it's honestly just micro plastics. Every time you wash that in the washing machine, micro plastics leech into the washing machine.

Oh, yes, yeah. Oh, please, please, number one takeaway, stop with polyester. Yeah. Please, please, please, if you care about the planet and the water our water systems, we've so, so little fresh water actually, in this whole world, and these microplastics are going in there. So the fact that these plastics are not just in the water system, but they're in our bodies now, yes, too, because we're drinking them and eating and breathing. So number one, one of the there's a lot of takeaways. Please just stop with the polyester. We should go on a worldwide boycott of polyester. We have enough of it. Yeah, right?

There's a campaign that Fashion Revolution did that's called No More Polyester. So that's an engagement piece. Polyester is also like a very cheap it's a synthetic fiber, right? So it's cheaper to produce. So a lot of brands use it. And sometimes, you know, when it's polyester fabric and you wear it, it's, I always tell people, if you care so much about what goes in your body, with what you eat, what chemicals are in your makeup, you know, also like the people, because always like quality over quantity, right? You want good quality people around you. Why wouldn't you want the same for your say for your clothing? Because it touches the biggest organ we have, which is our skin, right? So that we need to think more about the material composition. So the way that we got around this fact that threading change is thinking again, was saying about how we're so focused on the problem instead of the solution. So I can spend all this time talking about how this brand is bad, that brand is bad, but it gets to a point where people want to they don't. It gets very depressing, right? It's really a hard world we live in. So we launched this initiative. This is really touching on the innovation arm of our work, called the Global Innovation Story Map, the GISM and what it is, it's taking the world's most ethical, sustainable brands from the perspective of, do they uphold climate, racial, labor and gender justice, so abiding by our mission statement of the six F's, and building out this culture of transparency, authenticity and vulnerability in the industry, and spotlighting the small to medium sized designers that are changing the world. I love it, yeah, and that's so important to us, because I was, I've been on so many talks and, you know, panels where people were like, okay, so I now I don't want to buy any new clothes. Now, I don't want to, you know, like, I want to shop more sustainably, but I don't want to shop at all, but I'm going to a wedding, or I'm going to this really big event where I do need a new piece, um, where can I go? So I recommend we do a lot of clothing swaps. That's one avenue. But you're not always going to find like a wedding or a cocktail dress at a swap, right? You might like I have before. So we asked, we created this story map to showcase all the brands around the world that are doing it correctly.

Yes, yeah. Oh, I love that. Um, let's talk about, um. Uh, globally, writing change is doing a lot globally. Can you expand more on what you guys are doing? Yeah, the initiatives,

yeah. So we definitely, um, weave the tri impact model of education, innovation, consultation into all of our global work. So we have hubs around the world that we're working in, and there's kind of a different theme of how we engage in each continent. So for North America, a lot of is focused on education and also on policy, right? So there's more policies coming through that talk about textile waste diversion and recovery in the US, but Canada is really lagging behind. So we're engaging a lot of young people, you know, local governments and municipalities on better extended producer responsibility policy, EPR in Canada and the US, and then for Africa, our work is very much focused on textile waste diversion, because, like I said before, a lot of it has been being used global north is dumping ground in Asia. Most of the work that we do is focus on garment workers rights and also pay and living conditions fairly. Because most of our clothing is produced in India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Vietnam, China, all Asian countries and the government workers need to be fairly represented and have a voice in Latin America. We do a lot of work around engaging young people around many different topics. But because COP30, the next UN conference that's in 2025 next year, one of the biggest ones today, it's going to be in Brazil, so deforestation and Amazon protection, right? And conservation is a huge focus in Latin America, yeah. And then in Europe, here's the thing with Europe, I'm going to tell you, in fashion, Europe has a lot of haute couture and right with like Milan and Prada and France, so a lot of the trends are produced in Europe, and then they're mass marketed, right? Because a lot of like, Eurocentric people want to be seen as, like the European fashion style. So that's one thing, but the other thing is, in policy, Europe is leading in a lot of ways, other than because they have a lot of the textile waste. The EU is doing a lot, and France is very well engaged. Like in France, you could even have tax incentives for mending your clothes, right? So they're like ahead and in some regards, yes, but what we're trying to engage in Europe is like, now that we have the policies that EU is doing, how can we ensure that these policies are not just a one blanket solution? You cannot take what's working in the EU and put it in the US or put it in Brazil and call it a day, right? Because different jurisdictions need different types of policies and different mechanisms, different players to enact it. So it's really important that we're engaging policymakers, educational institutions and schools in Europe, so that we can take the positives of the policy they're enacting and then see how it works in other contexts. So to kind of summarize, Asia is all about fair pay and garment workers. Africa is all about textile waste. South America is all about conservation, forest protection. North America is all about education and also policy. And the Europe is looking at what's currently working and then seeing how we can apply in different contexts, but making it very localized to that continent.

I am amazed that you can keep all that in your head inthat one sentence. Wow.

Yeah I live, work and breathe this every day.

So so my takeaway is that each, each specific sort of geo is hyper focused, maybe on one or two themes. Yes, okay, that's great. That's fantastic. As opposed to it being sort of a blanket thing that everyone's doing, I think that you can go a lot faster, a lot further, when you are focused on your particular geo and work in a way that is not siloed. Yeah, right, for sure. So there is constant, continued communication between these three geos and collaboration?

Yeah. So the collaboration piece is on this program we're launching next January, which is called the SDG um Fashion Ambassadors Program, and what it is, it's a policy program that takes 17 young ambassadors from around the world, all from each different geographical regions, and pairing them with a mentorship organization and a policy maker to really enact a policy that relates to textile, textiles and fashion in their jurisdiction. So if it's a young person from Africa, is going to be on waste. This young person in North America, is going to be on policy. Be on policy and education for developing this program with the UN and with lots of different fashion and environmental NGOs, a lot of brand partners as well. I'm excited to share about some of the brands are working with as well. And we're launching the cohort next year, officially at COP30 in Brazil. Maybe this is one of our premier programs that I'm so excited for it. So

yeah, how does the average person sort of get involved? Yeah,

that's a good question. I would say, engage with us online, but also engage in any of the different try impact model solutions. So come to an event, whether it's in person or online, attend a webinar. We host global clothing swaps. I think since 2022 we started doing them. We hosted over 50 swaps in over 18 countries, in over sorry, 50 swaps in over eight countries, in over 18 cities, and we've diverted over 10,000 pounds of textile waste from the landfill. Amazing. Yeah.

So threadingchange.org is your website and more information that can be found on our our website as well, and we'll make sure that people have access to that information. And oh, what would love to know? What are your hopes and dreams with Threading Change? What would you like to do? What is your next sort of steps here?

Yeah, so I think our North Star is really placing young people at the epicenter of change making in the fashion industry, from the perspective of youth education, global innovation, and really spotlighting the brands that are doing the right thing, and then consultation legislation to ensure that young people are not laggingbehind. We're not lagging behind in policies, and that we are effectively um being engaged when speaking with brands and industries and governments, but also that to help push more legislation forward that's going to right the harmful fashion industry. Because this whole conversation we're having is because a lot of us, I said before, taught to treat our clothing as commodities and not as stories, right? So it's about this collective mind shift that also needs to change so many young people already working to engage in extended producer responsibility policies, circular economy policies, fashion policies, but there's no spotlight on us, because a big focus always on brands and driving these mass marketed trends. So placing young people at the epicenter of this change and really spotlighting all the amazing initiatives, whether it's from a sustainability or human rights perspective is really what we're here to do, and I'm so proud of all the work we've done the last four years, because when I started, no one know when you knew what a fashion NGO was. No one even recognized why it's important to have young people working in fashion. But I feel that it's definitely changing, like since our inception. Now there's always a youth representative in every fashion conference. We're increasingly being invited to more boardrooms. Now we want to be in helping to engage and enact the policies as well. So that's the next step.

So Threading Change is very much youth centered. However, can anyone of any age get involved? Yeah,

absolutely. So we're for youth and by youth, but we definitely acknowledge that intergenerational collaboration is what's going to take to write the harmful fashion industry and accomplish a feminist, fossil fuel free fashion future. So like I said, we do work with Suzuki elders, and we have taught workshops to people of all ages. I will say, um, for those that are you know, above the age 30 ways that you can engage is, um, actually, the studies have shown a lot of people that are buying the cheap clothing, are people over the age 30. It's not always young people, yeah, so continue to be engaged, continue to choose your clothing wisely, to educate yourself, but also make um talking about ethical fashion a topic with your kids, with your friends, with your family. It doesn't stop at any age, right? We actually did a clothing swap into June. That was a family swap, because kids and toddlers grow out of their clothes so fast, and it's always buying new clothes, right? You could, like, swap those clothes and find alternatives. So engage with families that way. Yeah. But we work with a lot of policy makers that are not youth, that are amazing champions of youth. So be a youth champion and see if you can, you know, enact a change and help inspire the generation.

Beautiful. Thank you for that. Well, clearly your organization, Threading Change is up to so good, and it's just such a pleasure and an honor to meet you. We need more change makers of any age, but in particular, I agree with you the youth, because they're inheriting this world and to feel empowered, because they are so powerful. Their voices are so powerful. So what you're doing is really amazing. We're big fans here at All Purpose. Thank you so much for being on the Up to So Good podcast. Yeah, any, any final thoughts, any final words,

um, I would say, you know, that we are all in this collectively. Definitely don't feel that. Because you're one person, you can't make a difference. Your purchasing decisions, educating yourself about the components of your clothing shopping list, but also just going to an event and talking to your friends and neighbors is a huge component of what you can do. So don't be dismayed and think that individual actions aren't important, it's definitely very important. And if you have an idea, definitely engage with others and try to collaborate, to go further together, because you'll never know how far you'll go. And for me, I'm testing that every day, like the more that we're changing, the more that we're doing, the more global people bring on board. It's been an amazing journey, so and the

response has been really incredible. I suspect Yes, people are thirsty for this, for this, yeah, and I don't think anyone wants to harm intentionally, wants to harm. Most people, it's that sort of not being aware, not knowing. So I love the three pillars, education, innovation, the consultation, yes. Well, yes, awesome. It's wonderful. All Purpose as as a company, we very much support you. We love you. You are, you know your family now, and you know, let's not keep Threading Change a secret in the vault. It's time to bring it out. And yeah, we wish you all the best. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, that's all the time we have for today's show. Thank you so much for joining us, and if you enjoyed the show, please subscribe. Hit the like button or share an episode, and if you have any feedback, questions or comments or show ideas, you can email us directly at Hello@all purpose.io, thank you once again for joining us. We'll see you next time.

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