Shownotes
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Description
Wendi Park is joined by Ellen Graf-Martin, who brings a wealth of experience from her missionary background to her expertise in marketing and communications. Ellen opens up about the pivotal role of evangelism in her life, illustrating how her passion for storytelling informed her journey to founding Graf-Martin Communications, a company dedicated to enhancing the voice and impact of organizations promoting hope and justice.
We go into the theology of evangelism, the transformative power of personal stories, and the strategic importance of crisis communication plans for charities. Ellen shares insights drawn from working with The Chosen in Canada, challenges traditional perceptions around the relevance of Jesus in contemporary society, and underscores the significance of contextualizing messages to genuinely connect with diverse audiences.
Throughout the discussion, humility, practicality, and the ability to truly listen emerge as critical themes when sharing one's spiritual journey.
Time Stamps
[06:17] Passion, skill, communication, branding, fundraising, visual identity.
[08:05] Charities face increasing crisis communication challenges.
[13:27] Share message to all, starting close by.
[15:29] Write for the audience, not yourself
[20:41] Connecting and sharing, inspiring through natural expression.
[22:13] Personal responsibility to support community and charities.
[26:44] Evangelism starts from within
[29:03] Self-reflection, transformation, and journey through life.
Guest Links
Graf-Martin Communications: https://www.grafmartin.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/grafmartincommunications/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GrafMartinCommunications/
Linkedin: https://ca.linkedin.com/in/ellen-graf-martin-1857999
Other Links
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Editing and production by Johan Heinrichs: arkpodcasts.ca
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcripts
We weren't learning the theology of evangelism. We weren't learning all
Speaker:of the theological
Speaker:experience with Jesus. People may argue with
Speaker:the church or argue with the Bible, but they can't argue
Speaker:with your personal experience. What does loving your
Speaker:neighbor actually look like? This is
Speaker:Journey with Care, where curious Canadians get inspired to love
Speaker:others well through real life stories and honest conversations.
Speaker:Hey, curious sojourners. We're continuing in our series Leading Differently
Speaker:Together. I'm so glad you're on this journey with me. Have you been following
Speaker:along? I'd love to hear what you think. Just click on the link in the
Speaker:show notes or go to journey with care dot ca. We'd really love to hear
Speaker:from you. Ephesians 41112 says, God gives
Speaker:some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds,
Speaker:teachers to equip the saints for the work of the ministry for
Speaker:building up the body of Christ. But what does this look like in
Speaker:Canada? Keep listening to find out. Today, we're gonna get curious
Speaker:about evangelism. Now before you tune out with triggers of angry
Speaker:preachers or feeling that pressure to create awkward conversations,
Speaker:today's guest may give you a new take on evangelism altogether.
Speaker:I'm your host, Wendy Park, joined by producer, Johan Hinrichs. And
Speaker:in studio today, we have a special guest from Elmira, Ontario.
Speaker:She's a marketing extraordinaire, founder and CEO of Graf
Speaker:Martin Communications, and personal friend of Care Impact, Ellen
Speaker:Graf Martin. Ellen, welcome to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker:It's so fun to join you in studio from
Speaker:afar. This is so fun to have you because we've gone
Speaker:back a few years through the pandemic, actually. We came
Speaker:in contact with you. You've been helping us as Care Impact
Speaker:tell our story. So it's it's nice to have you on our our
Speaker:podcast. It's fun. I know so much about Care
Speaker:Impact. I mean, we knew you as forever families, and we made the
Speaker:journey with you to becoming Care Impact. So it's exciting. That's
Speaker:right. Yeah. And you've really helped us clarify our message,
Speaker:clarify our branding, and what we are about to communicate. But
Speaker:I I'm curious about your own story, Ellen. So what
Speaker:put you on this path to starting Graf Martin Communication? I'm just
Speaker:curious a little bit if you could dig into your story a bit. What brought
Speaker:you here? Yeah. I actually was a missionary before
Speaker:I was a marketer, which is really fun. It's kind
Speaker:of a jump. People think, okay. How did that happen? But after university,
Speaker:I grew up on Vancouver Island. I went to university on Vancouver Island. I
Speaker:actually studied criminology. I thought that I would be working
Speaker:with the rehabilitation of female offenders or
Speaker:young offenders. That's what I thought I would do. Had a passion for that. Thought
Speaker:that's what God's gonna call me to. Graduated, and I was too young for
Speaker:anyone to take me seriously, to be honest. And,
Speaker:that's not why this happened, but it was how God then used that
Speaker:time was that I, after that, ended up with
Speaker:Operation Mobilization in Latin America on their ship,
Speaker:Logos 2. And I did a cross cultural
Speaker:communications internship with Prairie Bible Institute while I
Speaker:was in Latin America doing that and realized, you
Speaker:know, I was a word person and communication. It was no
Speaker:mistake that I was, you know, in criminology learning
Speaker:about how people think. So did you see this thread
Speaker:throughout kind of looking back as our hindsight is Wendi, but could you
Speaker:see this thread of communication and the love for telling
Speaker:stories throughout your life? Yeah. You know, when I was
Speaker:a kid, I so I was an early reader. I was a very early
Speaker:reader. When I was in grade 4, they tested me and said, well,
Speaker:you've graduated English. Wow. And so I no longer had to
Speaker:take English as of grade 4. So that was, like, an area of
Speaker:gifting for me, but it was also an area of interest. So my mom
Speaker:and I would go to garage sales, and my favorite thing to buy was a
Speaker:typewriter. And this was I mean, you and I are of the same vintage,
Speaker:and so typewriters were a thing. And people were selling them, and they were selling
Speaker:their manual typewriters and replacing them with electric typewriters. So I
Speaker:don't know how many manual typewriters I had. And I would
Speaker:write stories. That's what I would use them for. And I basically would
Speaker:replace them when the the ink ribbon ran out. I'd have to buy another one
Speaker:at a garage sale, and I was always writing. That is so
Speaker:fascinating, that that early interest in how you your
Speaker:mom even helped channel that. I'm just curious. What
Speaker:about storytelling was so intriguing to you? Was it the
Speaker:creativity? Was it helping people down this
Speaker:path, this imagination? Or what was it about storytelling?
Speaker:I think it was just that the stories brought me to life. I was
Speaker:always very empathetic, and I had a big
Speaker:imagination and just loved crafting words
Speaker:together in a way that drew emotion and drew
Speaker:response and drew people into a story where I think that they could
Speaker:escape a little bit. That's just what I loved, and I still love
Speaker:that. Today, I just get to do it in a different way. Well and I
Speaker:was gonna say too with the Graf Martin Communication, and you have a full team
Speaker:and and it's growing and and you just can't keep up, but you
Speaker:really look like you are enjoying what you do. It doesn't
Speaker:feel like a job to you. At least it doesn't seem like a job when
Speaker:I'm interacting with you. You're just infectious about what you're doing. Can you tell us
Speaker:a little bit about Graf Martin Communication and sort
Speaker:of the area that you work in? Yeah. So we
Speaker:exist to strengthen organizations that are
Speaker:championing hope, generosity, and justice. That's really
Speaker:what we do. Or if an organization is a hope organization, a
Speaker:generosity organization, or a justice organization,
Speaker:that's where we land. And so we support those organizations
Speaker:to get clarity around their messaging because most of them really
Speaker:struggle. They know what they wanna do, but they don't know how to say
Speaker:what they are doing. That that was us. That
Speaker:yeah. It was. It was. There was this enormous passion and
Speaker:enormous skill Wendi I saw you and Harold and the
Speaker:team around you. You had this dream and a passion and a
Speaker:calling, but didn't know how to tell people clearly what
Speaker:that was so that they could be invited to participate with you in it.
Speaker:And that's really, at the end of the day, what we do, whether that is
Speaker:via brand or public relations, or if it is
Speaker:through thinking through fundraising, planning, and
Speaker:revising monthly donor programs. And just even the language
Speaker:around that, we're all about language. And and then what does that look like
Speaker:even when it turns into so if you've got a brand language, what does that
Speaker:look like when it turns into a logo? So, you know, are you a
Speaker:cheerful brand? And do you pick bright colors like a CareImpact? Or are
Speaker:you, really serious in picking
Speaker:navy blues and bank colors, if that makes sense. And
Speaker:so, we kind of run the gamut on that. And then what does it look
Speaker:like when you reach out to media? What does it look like for
Speaker:public perception? All the way down to crisis communications. Because
Speaker:crisis communications is reputation and brand management,
Speaker:and the words you use in a crisis really matter. And
Speaker:we learn that when we read the news or watch the news, that
Speaker:the words that people choose in a moment of crisis are really
Speaker:critical. And most charitable organizations
Speaker:or the organizations we work with don't have a crisis comms plan
Speaker:and don't even know where to start with that. So that's another example
Speaker:of how we bring words to life. Can you give me an example
Speaker:of a crisis management, like, maybe a organization you're working
Speaker:with that that does this or that you've been working with
Speaker:to get that message out? Because it's critical. It is critical. So we've
Speaker:actually written a number of crisis comms plans
Speaker:for charities in the last year because there are
Speaker:more landmines in the space than there used to be.
Speaker:And people who started out with Goodwill and, you know, a few
Speaker:donors and creating something incredible, now, the
Speaker:words that they use are being measured in different ways. Like, when you have a
Speaker:you're using more words, not necessarily thinking intentionally about every
Speaker:single word that you would choose like you would in an appeal or a newsletter.
Speaker:Right. And so, the more words we have, the more opportunity we have
Speaker:to be exposed or to be picked apart.
Speaker:And, like, we have seen a lot over the last,
Speaker:not just few years, but the last decade, even with things that have come out
Speaker:around residential schools and around church and
Speaker:abuse. I mean, there's just so many, like it, unfortunately, it
Speaker:is a There are countless ways, even financial
Speaker:mismanagement. These are some of the areas that we
Speaker:plan for. If it happens, what will we do?
Speaker:What will we say? Who will say it? And how will we respond?
Speaker:So I think every organization really should have a plan in hand for
Speaker:that. So if they have a crisis comms plan and a brand, they've actually got
Speaker:a lot of the pieces that they need for a really solid foundation for years
Speaker:to come. And recently, we met together in
Speaker:Winnipeg. We got to hang out for for a day, which is really a lot
Speaker:of fun, and you were here releasing something with The Chosen. You've
Speaker:been working with them, and and that's another form of communication, getting the
Speaker:word out there, working closely with Dallas in that. Can you tell us
Speaker:a little bit about that and what that journey has been like in Canada?
Speaker:Yeah. It's been amazing. I've actually never seen anything like
Speaker:it as a brand focused or brand engagement focused
Speaker:agency, and that's how we use our communications. Seeing the
Speaker:brand engagement for The Chosen is remarkable.
Speaker:And, like I said, I've just never seen anything like this. And,
Speaker:frankly, I think that The Chosen has been my most impactful
Speaker:evangelism method over the last 20
Speaker:years of work. Even though I was a missionary for 5 years before I
Speaker:started this, I think, oh, I have actually told more people about Jesus
Speaker:through my work supporting The Chosen in Canada than I did when I was a
Speaker:missionary for 5 years. So it's been really exciting. And I think we have a
Speaker:lot to learn from the response that people have had to The
Speaker:Chosen, and we we did some research with them in the fall.
Speaker:And one of the things that was most exciting is that of
Speaker:the non Christian or non church audience that we
Speaker:surveyed, over half of them were had either watched an
Speaker:episode or were open to watching an episode of The
Speaker:Chosen and interested in the story. That tells us something.
Speaker:I mean, we think nobody cares about Jesus, but it's not true
Speaker:from the research we did. Well, I'm hoping we can have a bit of a
Speaker:conversation on evangelism and what that means today in
Speaker:the here and now and demystify some of the misconceptions sometimes
Speaker:we have. Because sometimes, for me, it it's felt like, well, we
Speaker:need to have these awkward conversations and force conversations that people
Speaker:don't want, and yet Wendi we look at the good news and evangelism
Speaker:is the spreading of good news, it's infectious. There's something. It's
Speaker:good for all people, and and the message might change with the
Speaker:audience and and what we're we're speaking of may
Speaker:be different for different people. But let's talk a bit
Speaker:about that word evangelism. You have
Speaker:this gift of evangelism simply by the way
Speaker:you are infectious about getting the communication out there. You were out there with
Speaker:your typewriter telling stories. You've been living in this,
Speaker:built a business around sharing good
Speaker:news. When you think of evangelism, even from a
Speaker:biblical context, is there some passage that comes to mind or
Speaker:or things that that inspire you? Yeah. You
Speaker:know, I am inspired by the book of acts because when you
Speaker:even asked me to, you know, talk about evangelism, I thought, I
Speaker:think she has the wrong person. I'm not the evangelist. And
Speaker:so I really had to think about this. And one of the things that
Speaker:has driven decision making for me is at the very
Speaker:beginning of the book of Acts. And it's when Jesus
Speaker:was, you know, giving, not commands, but his
Speaker:marching orders to his disciples or meeting with them.
Speaker:And before he ascended into heaven, the apostles were with Jesus and
Speaker:they were saying, so, you know, has the time come now
Speaker:for you to restore our kingdom and free
Speaker:Israel? And, Jesus said, the father alone has
Speaker:the authority to set those dates and times, and they are not for you to
Speaker:know. Mhmm. And I think so many of us think, okay, that God's gonna bring
Speaker:his kingdom now. We have to do these things and push.
Speaker:And I think he says, I'm building my kingdom when you pray.
Speaker:May your kingdom come and your will be done on earth as it is in
Speaker:heaven. This is God's will, let it happen. But there
Speaker:is a job still for us because Jesus said to his apostles, but you
Speaker:will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you. And you will be
Speaker:my witnesses telling people about me everywhere in
Speaker:Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the
Speaker:earth. And I think we, I think we make
Speaker:our call out to be too big. I think we need to reach everyone.
Speaker:And what I hear from this is that, okay, it's important for you to
Speaker:talk to the people in your Jerusalem. And I see this as, okay, who
Speaker:are the people in my direct circle? Who are the people right around me in
Speaker:my neighborhood? And who are the people in my Judea? So that kind of
Speaker:next circle of people. And who are the people in my Samaria? Like, the
Speaker:place I wouldn't normally go and is outside that boundary, and
Speaker:then to the ends of the earth. And what is my responsibility to each of
Speaker:those groups? And so, it actually has taken some of the pressure off. I'm
Speaker:like, okay, the Holy Spirit is gonna come upon me, make me a witness.
Speaker:And then, I just have to ask God, like, where do you want me
Speaker:to be sharing right now? What is my Judea? What is my Jerusalem? What
Speaker:is my Samaria? And what does to the end of the earth look like for
Speaker:me? And so that has helped me figure out where I work.
Speaker:And I was actually really disappointed when God was like, Jerusalem and
Speaker:Judea is where I'm sending you, because I wanted to be a very exciting missionary
Speaker:going to I had great plans for, like, working in a Muslim
Speaker:slum in Indonesia, and God was like, you're going to
Speaker:Ontario. And, I'm like, what? That was
Speaker:kinda my Samaria, I'm not gonna lie. As a West Coast kid, it was
Speaker:kinda my Samaria. Well, I was planning to be overseas too. I had
Speaker:planned it. I was doing my undergrad overseas, and then,
Speaker:finished my master's thinking I had some great jobs lined up that I
Speaker:was gonna do, and God said, you're gonna be in Winnipeg. But
Speaker:something that what you said there, I love, is that it's like you have to
Speaker:know your Jerusalem, though. You have to know your audience. Communication isn't just
Speaker:like barfing it out there on the street and it's like, blah, like, here it
Speaker:is. Like, take it or leave it. It's understanding your audience. Understanding
Speaker:communication is who is receiving that, having that emotional
Speaker:intelligence, that communication intelligence to know,
Speaker:what it is you're sharing, that it is good news in a way that
Speaker:is contextualized. It's not changing the good news. It's
Speaker:understanding who you're talking with that is natural, like connection,
Speaker:really. One of my good friends is
Speaker:a very well established writer, and she
Speaker:said to me this is her name is Holly Girth, and she said to
Speaker:me, when she writes a book, she doesn't write a
Speaker:book because she has something to say. She writes a book
Speaker:because there is something someone needs to hear. And that's a
Speaker:very, I mean, it might seem like a small difference, but it's a huge
Speaker:difference. And I think what And so, when we're even working on
Speaker:communications with a client, we think, know your audience
Speaker:and then also don't just know them, don't just have an avatar and a persona,
Speaker:but understand what they're experiencing right now.
Speaker:What are they thinking about? What is keeping them up at night? What are they
Speaker:feeling? What are they doing right now? Are they so busy that they
Speaker:don't even have time to hear what you're saying? Or are they so busy that
Speaker:just offering a cup of tea to your neighbor and a break for
Speaker:half an hour is actually the best message that you can give and an
Speaker:opportunity to connect? So we need to know what
Speaker:people need to hear, not what we just wanna say.
Speaker:Right. Yeah. No. It it takes some humility to pay attention
Speaker:and to listen to people. I I think of if
Speaker:we're wanting to work with people that are
Speaker:finding themselves homeless, just giving them a track and
Speaker:telling them, like, fire insurance, this is the way to heaven,
Speaker:and yet we're not extending a blanket or a housing plan
Speaker:or asking them, what does good news sound like to you today?
Speaker:And coming alongside in those ways, really
Speaker:isn't going to be effective. Not to to lose that
Speaker:eternal perspective, but sometimes
Speaker:that journey towards that full understanding of of the
Speaker:gospel and the redemption that God has for us
Speaker:starts with that cup of water. And and it says in Matthew
Speaker:25, like, when did we see you hungry and and thirsty? When did we see
Speaker:you in prison? But that was good news in those moments.
Speaker:Being in those spaces, even Jesus wasn't saying, you better preach them
Speaker:in. It was so tangible, so
Speaker:simple, and that's one of the experiences that I had working with you
Speaker:and your team as we were working on some rebranding for Care
Speaker:Impact. And how do we break it down to the smallest thing,
Speaker:something tangible, something easy to understand? Yes. We're
Speaker:doing some complex things behind the scenes, but, really, it breaks down to something
Speaker:so simple. We're just helping strangers become good neighbors. And,
Speaker:and I see you doing that with so many organizations, faith
Speaker:based organizations. How do we bring that into context
Speaker:in something that is tangible? Yeah. I think
Speaker:we've all been on the receiving side of someone
Speaker:telling us something that might be true, but isn't necessarily
Speaker:very helpful in that moment. And I mean, if you're married or have a spouse,
Speaker:you know this really well. Because sometimes our spouse will say something to us and
Speaker:we're like, that you are not being very helpful right now. Like, especially for me
Speaker:if my husband gives me advice when I'm upset or if she if he
Speaker:said, calm down when I am upset. I mean, is it
Speaker:true? Yes, I need to calm down. Is he wrong? No. But is it
Speaker:helpful helpful in that moment? Not whatsoever, and it will probably not turn out
Speaker:well for either one of us. And so I think knowing where your person
Speaker:is at and meeting them where they are at, what would be more helpful
Speaker:in that moment is to ask the question, what do you need right
Speaker:now? Like, how are you feeling and what do you need? And And I think
Speaker:we can all learn that because I do the same thing to him. So I'm
Speaker:not picking on him. We wanna solve a problem fast, and we just wanna
Speaker:tell people what we think they need to know. And we don't wanna ask
Speaker:for clarity from them, and we don't want to listen
Speaker:necessarily. And so, communicating is more about listening
Speaker:than about talking or sharing words. It's about
Speaker:responding. And in order to respond, you need to listen and you need
Speaker:to hear your audience and you need to know them. And so,
Speaker:yes, if my husband listens to this podcast episode, just want him
Speaker:to know I'm not picking on him. I've got the same problem. It's a common
Speaker:problem, especially in our culture. We're so busy. We don't wanna have to take
Speaker:the time to listen to someone. We wanna just tell them what we think they
Speaker:need to know. Well, I have a silly example, but a true
Speaker:example Wendi visited you at your house, and we
Speaker:we communed over our love for coffee. And I expressed my
Speaker:enjoyment for a good bean and a good cup of coffee as did you,
Speaker:and so we got on to we were just passionate about it, and then you
Speaker:introduced me to your coffee machine. And it just, like,
Speaker:was an epiphany. It was just this, like, good news to
Speaker:all mankind kind of a moment. I know this is silly. This
Speaker:isn't gospel, so don't people don't get too hung up on this.
Speaker:But it was easy for you to tell me about this beautiful coffee
Speaker:machine that just pours out this beautiful
Speaker:blend of of beans. And just like that,
Speaker:when somebody has good news to share in a gospel sense,
Speaker:maybe they've been set free from addiction or maybe it's just
Speaker:that they've learned to meditate and breathe when
Speaker:they were feeling anxious, something very practical. But I think in
Speaker:our community, we have things like that where somebody is
Speaker:expressing to us, just like I expressed to you my love for coffee,
Speaker:somebody's expressing to us, I'm anxious or I'm,
Speaker:working through this difficult situation or in parenting
Speaker:or I'm unsure and I and I'm feeling
Speaker:uneasy, to be able to identify with each other and point
Speaker:them to something, Maybe it's breathing, maybe it's a prayer, or maybe it's, like
Speaker:whatever it is, it there's a natural expression and a connection that
Speaker:happens, and those with the gift of evangelism
Speaker:are more attuned to it. And I think, honestly, all of us
Speaker:should mature in these things. It's not like we just leave it all to Ellen
Speaker:and and send everybody to Graf Martin Communications to get
Speaker:fixed. But people with the gift of evangelism are part
Speaker:of the 5 fold ministry of the church so that they can
Speaker:inspire us. How do we share our story? Because we all have different
Speaker:gifts as you mentioned. And how do we help connect with
Speaker:people in very meaningful ways that it really is good
Speaker:news? So, yeah, it may start with a cup of coffee.
Speaker:It might start with a cup of coffee. And I think starting where you're at,
Speaker:people think evangelism, they think too big for me and too scary for
Speaker:me. I think that's really what people think. But I think evangelism
Speaker:starts with an enthusiasm and a willingness to share that. And the
Speaker:enthusiasm, like, I even think of the, the root of that. Like, this is God
Speaker:in me. We've been given the gift of the holy spirit. Each one of us
Speaker:who know Jesus have been given the gift of the holy spirit. And it
Speaker:is our responsibility to use that
Speaker:enthusiasm to bring life to the people around us.
Speaker:And personally, how I see this as well is I
Speaker:am not in Indonesia, but I'm not also released from
Speaker:that responsibility. I do what I do in my neighborhood,
Speaker:and I do what I do in our community, in our province, but I
Speaker:also see this as my responsibility in my own personal giving and
Speaker:in my family's giving. So we give in our Jerusalem,
Speaker:our Judea, our Samaria, and to the end of the earth.
Speaker:And so we choose what charities we give to locally
Speaker:and the things that we believe that God is calling us to
Speaker:care about. And, I mean, you and I share a passion for
Speaker:child welfare and ensuring, like, family resilience.
Speaker:And so what are the groups that are doing that? That you've got us uniquely
Speaker:impassioned me for that. And it is life giving to
Speaker:me as well as life giving to the organizations that are already doing that. We
Speaker:don't need to do all the things. Others are already doing that. And so that's
Speaker:what I'm trying to say. So who is doing that internationally and to the end
Speaker:of the earth? Who is doing that across Canada? Who is doing that in the
Speaker:places that I would rather not go? Like, I am probably not a person to
Speaker:do I am way too fussy and proceed to do,
Speaker:like, deep street ministry. I am just not that
Speaker:person. It's just not me. But it doesn't mean that I don't care about
Speaker:it. And it doesn't mean that I am absolved from all responsibility.
Speaker:And you are getting the messaging down to a a great point so
Speaker:that those people who are called into those ministries can
Speaker:really get donors and partners behind them and other
Speaker:people who are called into that to hear about it and and
Speaker:grow that ministry in that way. So that is a huge part that
Speaker:you you play. I'm curious I'm curious in
Speaker:Canada, in our current context, what does evangelism,
Speaker:good communication of good news look like in Canada? Is it
Speaker:a a harder audience to convince in the
Speaker:more in the religious sense, the spirituality sense of the
Speaker:word? Is it a harder hill to climb in communicating
Speaker:good news in a Canadian audience, or is that a misconception?
Speaker:I think it's a misconception. And, you know, when I joined
Speaker:Operation Mobilization many, many years ago, I
Speaker:remember them teaching us. The first thing we learned to do was
Speaker:to share our testimony, our personal testimony, and to identify
Speaker:it and to share it in 3 minutes. And, yeah, I thought,
Speaker:okay, this is seems kinda weird. Maybe, like, why is this the first thing we're
Speaker:learning? We weren't learning the theology of evangelism. We weren't
Speaker:learning all of the the big, you know, well, I
Speaker:guess, theological terms for God to explain him
Speaker:well. But we were learning to explain what he had done in our life and
Speaker:our experience with Jesus. And
Speaker:one of the things they told us in that time was
Speaker:people may argue with the church or argue with
Speaker:the Bible, but they can't argue with your personal experience.
Speaker:And we all have that experience.
Speaker:And so learning how to articulate it, even if we don't
Speaker:think it's very exciting, because there are a lot of us who our
Speaker:conversion or our transformation isn't, doesn't look that remarkable.
Speaker:But when I look back, I think, wow, like, I can see what God has
Speaker:done in my life and the things that he has walked through with
Speaker:me and carried me through and
Speaker:carried me from and released me from or saved me from.
Speaker:And I just think of the hope I have, you know, even when I when
Speaker:I lost my dad 8 years ago, I didn't understand the
Speaker:reality of heaven until then. And I, when
Speaker:I lost my realize, I read something, a book called Imagine
Speaker:Heaven. And I realized my dad didn't wanna come back.
Speaker:He was in heaven and he didn't wanna come back. He was just waiting for
Speaker:us to be there. And even that piece of my testimony is a
Speaker:is it's a testimony, and no one can argue with my
Speaker:understanding with that. I mean, they could try, but it's not gonna get anywhere. But
Speaker:they they can hear it, and they can hear it a lot more than if
Speaker:I was quoting scripture, rescriptor, rescriptor to them. They may
Speaker:not realize that I've actually woven the words of scripture all into my testimony,
Speaker:but it's my story. And it's the story God has given me uniquely, and I
Speaker:can share it. I think that's very profound and and
Speaker:very practical, actually, because it it begins within
Speaker:ourselves. Yes. We wanna listen to our audience, but before we even just
Speaker:scan our audience and who who God has brought in our
Speaker:midst, what is God doing in our hearts? What is good news in our own
Speaker:life that we can celebrate? Are we even
Speaker:focused on those things? Are we allowing the Holy Spirit to work in our
Speaker:lives and recognizing his presence in ours so that we have something to
Speaker:share, not just a doctrine to pass
Speaker:on? It it's not just a religion to to spread,
Speaker:but what has God actually done in my life that is
Speaker:truly joyful? Because when when there's joy in a person's life,
Speaker:when there's life, like, oozing out of them, I naturally
Speaker:wanna know, hey. What gets you up in the morning? Right? And and and,
Speaker:wow. Like, I'm seeing something or even in their grief, but there's a
Speaker:tenacity. There's something just grounding them that
Speaker:I want to know. There's there's something almost magnetic that
Speaker:I want to know, but you've given us something practical formulate. What is
Speaker:it that God has done in my life? What is it within me? And being
Speaker:able to communicate that is evangelism
Speaker:at its core, which is just so beautiful. Is
Speaker:there anything else practical that you would give other people? Perhaps
Speaker:they're awakened saying, hey. Maybe I love marketing. I love telling
Speaker:stories. I I identify with your childhood story. Maybe there's something
Speaker:within me that I do have the gift of evangelism that I need to be
Speaker:offering that to the the broader church and community or
Speaker:ones that are learning from you. Are there some practical things that we
Speaker:can do to grow in evangelism
Speaker:right in our own Jerusalem? I think, number
Speaker:1, specific to evangelism is to know
Speaker:your story, know your personal story. I think so many of us are just moving
Speaker:so fast, and we discount, what happened before.
Speaker:And it's funny. This morning and forgive me for this, but this is a strange
Speaker:reference. But this morning, I was listening to music with my daughter on the way
Speaker:to school, and then Miley Cyrus' song, Wendi I Was Young,
Speaker:came on. And I thought, we all have that story, you know?
Speaker:You say that I was this, but I say that I was young. You know?
Speaker:You say that I was wild. You say that I was crazy. You say that
Speaker:I was fun, but I say I used to be young. And,
Speaker:like, in that, she's actually recognizing like, I think this is Miley Cyrus,
Speaker:and she's able to recognize her own personal transformation and journey.
Speaker:That song actually makes me reflect and stop in my
Speaker:tracks and say, what was my used to be young?
Speaker:And what are the ways that I think people or even myself, I would have
Speaker:characterized myself in those young days? And now, what
Speaker:has got done in me? And so, knowing our story and just being able
Speaker:to articulate it. An easy way to do that is,
Speaker:this is a coaching exercise that I do with people,
Speaker:is I get them to write a timeline of their life. And on one side
Speaker:of the timeline, I get them to put in their major life events. So,
Speaker:like, born, moved, graduated high
Speaker:school, married, first child, like, whatever those look like. And then
Speaker:on the other side of the timeline, so top side is your is your life
Speaker:event. So those are kinda like the what's above the water of the iceberg. And
Speaker:then on the bottom, I get them to write in a map of what are
Speaker:the things that God has really done in their life. And then compare
Speaker:that and take a look at that because often I see, now, that I
Speaker:was being confirmed in my faith at 13, and I also realized
Speaker:I was going through a really hard time. Personally, like, this is core
Speaker:puberty time, so awful for all of us and also
Speaker:so awful for self image as girls, 13 year old girls. Like, poor, I
Speaker:just, oh, that 11 to 13. But I see that God was
Speaker:really grabbing hold of me at that same time. And it reframes
Speaker:my memory to say, yeah, I was really struggling with that,
Speaker:but God was so present there. And so learning how to articulate our own
Speaker:story and identify what God has done through us, I think
Speaker:is a massive first step in being able to
Speaker:share the gospel and what God has done in your life
Speaker:with others. So that would be one really, really practical
Speaker:tool that I would give. And the second would be, what are the unique gifts
Speaker:that God has given me? Identifying what is your uniqueness. And we did this with
Speaker:Care Impact. So we do this with organizations, so I think I may have
Speaker:even said this to you. So if all these things that you say are great,
Speaker:other people are doing, but what is unique about you? And if there's nothing
Speaker:unique, why don't you just go merge with another organization because there's nothing
Speaker:unique? And that gets people's back up, you know? Like, well, you know, if
Speaker:there's nothing unique, there's something unique about you. And identify what that
Speaker:you uniqueness is, that gifting, and ask god to
Speaker:equip you in that area as well. That's really good.
Speaker:Yeah. I think sometimes we feel very unequipped to be able to
Speaker:share our story. I could even think of examples, though, where we
Speaker:sometimes overthink it possibly, that we just need to allow
Speaker:God to work through us. I think of the shepherds. They got the the good
Speaker:news, given to us. They just, like, stormed into the
Speaker:town to say the Messiah has been born. But when we
Speaker:feel ill equipped, like, what would you say to people who feel
Speaker:unequipped? I would say it's not our job
Speaker:to do the transformation of a person. It is our job to make a
Speaker:space for a person to meet Jesus because I don't feel
Speaker:equipped most days, to be honest. I think, oh, you know, God, what have you
Speaker:asked me to do? I did not prepare for this. You know, I started
Speaker:out in criminology and as a missionary. And now for 15 years, I've run a
Speaker:communications agency. And what has
Speaker:he has brought back to me over and over is from Exodus. It's a story
Speaker:in Exodus of a man named Bezalel,
Speaker:who God specifically equipped to
Speaker:build the tabernacle. So this is a place where people would meet
Speaker:God. And in Exodus 31,
Speaker:I'll start with first one. The Lord said to Moses, look, I have specifically
Speaker:chosen Bezalel son of Uri, grandson of Hur, of
Speaker:the tribe of Judah, which would be Jesus' tribe eventually.
Speaker:I have filled him with the spirit of God, giving him great
Speaker:wisdom, ability and expertise in all kinds of crafts.
Speaker:He is a master craftsman expert in working in gold, silver and bronze.
Speaker:He is skilled in engraving and mounting gemstones and in carving
Speaker:wood. He is a master at every craft. I think of this
Speaker:as probably Bezalel is like, I'm a carver. I
Speaker:build things out of wood. I like art. I He said he's a
Speaker:master craftsman. He probably wasn't thinking, I have the gift of
Speaker:evangelism. That Bezalel was being given the gifts that
Speaker:God had for him in order so that he could build a place
Speaker:where people could meet God. And I think that is what we are called
Speaker:to do. Look at your gifts. What has God equipped you to do? What are
Speaker:the experiences that you carry? What is unique about you? And how can
Speaker:you use that to create a place where people can meet Jesus, sometimes
Speaker:for the very first time? Beautiful. So whatever God
Speaker:has entrusted within you, poured through you, share it.
Speaker:Don't hold on to it. Give it out. That is the work of the evangelist.
Speaker:Thanks so much, Ellen, for taking the time to have this conversation.
Speaker:You've really encouraged me and challenged me to really share what God has
Speaker:put in my heart, and I hope many people have been encouraged today.
Speaker:Thanks so much, Wendy. And be sure to stay tuned for the rest of the
Speaker:series. Thank you for joining
Speaker:another conversation on Journey with Care, where we inspire
Speaker:curious Canadians on their path of faith and living life with
Speaker:purpose in community. Journey with Care is an initiative of Care
Speaker:Impact, a Canadian charity dedicated to connecting and equipping
Speaker:the whole church to journey well in community. You can visit their
Speaker:website at careimpact. Ca or visit journeywithcare. Ca
Speaker:to get more information on weekly episodes, Journey With Prayer, and
Speaker:details about our upcoming events and meetups. You can also leave
Speaker:us a message, share your thoughts, and connect with like minded
Speaker:individuals who are on their own journeys of faith and purpose.
Speaker:Thank you for sharing this podcast and helping these stories reach the
Speaker:community. Together, we can explore ways to journey in a good way.
Speaker:And always remember to stay curious.
