Welcome to this week’s episode of Thyroid Strong where Sarah Kneebone, a Holistic Hashimoto’s Health Coach, explores the emotional side of healing with Hashimoto’s. Many women on their Hashimoto’s journey have key triggers that kickstart their symptoms. Sarah is taking the chronic stress and the Type A personality for a loop and breaking down several strategies you can do right now to get your hormones back on track.
The physical symptoms of Hashimoto’s and the tangible testing to understand your specific ratio of hormones is extremely important. But what about the emotional side of Hashimoto’s? The underlying reality we create for ourselves that ultimately supported the physical symptoms that led us to endless doctor visits. How do we heal our chronic stress and trauma responses? How do we get back to our sense of self and our zest for life? Sarah is teaching us how to regulate our hormones instantaneously to get us feeling better today.
About Sarah Kneebone
Sarah Kneebone is a Certified Integrative Nutrition Health Coach and Breathwork Facilitator. Her mission is for women with Hashimoto’s to live a vibrant, thriving lifestyle and to ultimately get their mojo back!
Stress Triggers and Trauma Responses
Sarah’s turning point was experiencing her stress triggers still in her pregnancy after already in remission with Hashimoto’s. She sought out to identify the fight or flight mode and how to train your brain to counteract it and return to rest, digest, and heal mode. Trauma responses also contribute to your stress triggers and often, with various types of therapy, it’s possible to push through the ‘Big T’ or ‘Little t’ trauma and begin healing on the emotional side of Hashimoto’s.
The Missing Puzzle Piece in your Hashimoto’s Healing Journey
The often overlooked factor in your Hasimoto’s healing journey is the nervous system believing it’s safe, and safe enough to function properly. Once we are aware of our triggers and trauma responses, we can take control of our nervous system with practiced breathwork, ear messages, and working through trauma with a licensed professional.
In This Episode
Sarah Kneebone”s Hashimoto’s journey [2:07]
How pregnancy has the potential to alter your healing journey with Hashimoto’s [7:31]
Trauma responses and how to cope with them [10:12]
The missing puzzle piece in the Hashimoto’s healing journey [12:23]
Exercises to integrate to help relieve a stress response [14:54]
Connecting with your past trauma to move past it [17:50]
Feeling present and what it means [19:49]
The importance of Hashimoto’s being very interconnected throughout the body [21:20]
Where the holistic approach fits into the Hashimoto’s hierarchy [23:34]
“I've always been a person that needs to know why. And I think that's been a big part of being able to heal. And that's what I try and teach other people.” [5:13]
“...Your thoughts literally create your reality, your cells respond to what you're thinking, believing, and the emotions that are running through your body.” [12:23]
“But without that missing piece of a nervous system that believes it's safe and safe enough to thrive and to function properly, you're never going to experience deep healing, balance, joy, playfulness–those emotions that come from being in a calm, grounded state.” [13:42]
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When you're not in that state, your body can't digest food properly, your functions and your systems aren't operating properly. If you bought you feel burnt out from stress, you know, you get adrenal fatigue or your stress hormones are off, you're not absorbing your foods, you've got nutrient depletions your mind is going bonkers. You literally can't heal from that state. And so I realized that the missing puzzle piece for a lot of people is they're doing all the things you know, they're taking all the tests and the supplements and, and that might be all well and good. But without that missing piece of a nervous system that believes it's safe and safe enough to strive and to function properly. You're never going to experience deep healing, balance, joy, playfulness, those emotions that come from being in a calm, grounded state.Emily Kiberd:
Sara and me Kneebone is a certified holistic health coach and breath work facilitator. She is the founder of mojo health space and she combines dietary and lifestyle optimization with deep emotional healing practices to help busy, tired women Hello, uncover the root causes of their symptoms, reignite their energy and get their zest for life back her motto, I help you heal and unleash the vibrant, thriving woman within who does not want that. Her podcast is more Mojo. And her signature online course is I've got Hashimotos now what? Sarah Kneebone Welcome to thyroid strong podcast. And it's so wonderful to have you here. You're a mama. I'm a mama. We both have crazy toddlers running around the house. And we both have Hashimotos. Welcome. Yes.Sarah Kneebone:
Thank you for having me. I'm excited.Emily Kiberd:
Can you share your hace journey as practitioners we typically get on this path because we either had Hashimotos, and we got to the other side. Or we've helped women get through their Hashimotos journey. So can you share your journey? Yeah,Sarah Kneebone:
so I'll try and keep it relatively brief because as you know, with how she may Tez, usually all these different factors, I was relatively healthy when I was younger, but then in my teenage years, I started going out a lot, I really put my body through a lot, I was a bit of a party girl. And then I went into a corporate career. And basically just like work myself to the bone, I was like a slave to my boss, essentially, I ended up not noticing that I had a kidney infection, because I was just so disconnected from my body. And basically to spread to my blood, I ended up in hospital with sepsis, septicemia blood poisoning, and I was on a drip for a week. I didn't even know what it was, but I Googled it. And it was like one in three people with this die. And like most people will get like organ failure. And it can happen within hours. And so that was like a really big wake up call to me. Like there's stuff going on with my body. And I have no idea. Like, I'm just completely ignoring it after I go to the hospital. Well, so my first call when I was in the hospital was to my boss, so that was that wake up are like, okay, my priorities are all wrong. Something needs to change. And then when I got out of the hospital, I just kept getting ill like I think a lot of people have hashes will relate to this, just getting ill so easily getting so many infections, sinus infections, cold, blue, just rundown. And I kept getting UTIs every single month. And I would go back to the doctor, and they put me on more antibiotics. And they would say, you know, it's just what women, this was what happens with women like this is normal. And obviously I was like, this isn't normal. Come on. Somebody we'll talk about later, as has emerged his personality traits. So whether they are trade or not, is up for discussion. But you know, I've always been very type a very, like, I'm gonna make it happen a very hard worker. And so I was not going to take that as an answer. And so I knew nothing about holistic health before, but I ended up kind of getting into it, listening to different podcasts, reading different books, and basically listen to a podcast with somebody with Hashimotos and was like, This sounds exactly like me. So I just went to my doctor and requested the antibodies test. Fortunately, they explained about the antibodies test. So it wasn't that whole journey of like just TSH and not getting the diagnosis. So I was fortunate with that. And they didn't want to test me because I wasn't old enough. I wasn't overweight, and all these other factors that they assumed I must be, but they did it. And it came back that I had antibodies. So that was the start really, you know, getting that diagnosis. I remember just riding out the doctors and bursting into tears in front of all these construction workers. He knew I was bonkers. And, you know, I had to go through a grieving process because I had all the typical things said to me, like, you know, you gotta have this forever. It's just gonna get worse. There's nothing you can do. You just got to take more of more medication. And as I mentioned being type A I was like, not not going to accept that. So after I kind of was angry and sad and shocked and all of that I started working with a naturopath that was my first step. I started working on my gut health and my diet, I learned about that autoimmune protocol diet, and basically just realized that I needed to take ownership of my own house. And I needed to figure out why this is happening. Like I've always been a person that needs to know why. And I think that's been a big part of being able to heal. And that's what I try and teach other people. I know you do, too, about the root cause approach and being like, why is this autoimmunity happening? And what can I do to stop it? So I just went on this big root cause as a functional medicine doctor, I did detoxing protocols and tested for different infections and Candida and all of the things that I know you also talk about to just got rid of some of those things that were causing problems. I got Hashi motors, intermission, I studied to be a health coach along the way, because I was I hate corporate. I don't want to do something I'm passionate about. And then I got into remission. And then the problem was, I had my baby, and it kicked everything back out. Again, my TSH went crazy. I also had COVID, twice, I had postpartum depression, it was COVID. It was locked down. I just had a lot of family issues. And so that was when I started learning about the emotional side of healing, which I will probably go on to talk about later. But yeah, that's the majority of my hashy story.Emily Kiberd:
You think back to the original diagnosis, because I have a theory for myself, like, Okay, this is what was the top two triggers? Do you have in your mind, it was a stressor of the corporate job. And something else that maybe were the main triggers, because there's, there's so many triggers that kind of the cup overflow with but in your mind, because you and I both believe in like a holistic root cause approach? Is there something that comes to mind? Like, oh, yes, this was definitely one of the main triggers. Yeah,Sarah Kneebone:
I think there were a lot, you know, like, what I go through the list of things, I know, our root causes now like, right, so I had parasites and it you know, all these things. I do think what set the stage largely was the way I used to eat and drink and push myself. So it was like the stress the gut health. That's what allowed me to kind of start, that's what caused nutrient depletions. That's what caused the chronic stress is what caused my adrenals to be struggling. And you know, it becomes a bit of a cycle. But I think the thing that kind of just pushed it over the edge was getting so sick and being on so many antibiotics to the point where I remember my naturopath being like you don't have any bacteria full stop. You have no good. I think she said it was the worst got like stool test she'd ever see. But I did have one last year and they said this was a different naturopath, but it was the best one they'd ever seen. So I feel like we've made some progress.Emily Kiberd:
There is light at the end on the other side. Yeah. So I think it's interesting because a lot of women who go through pregnancy first year, postpartum thyroiditis is very common for her usually, medically, it resolves after a year, but a lot of women still experience symptoms don't get diagnosed with Hashimotos, maybe as soon as they could. And a lot of women don't know that pregnancy is a stressor on the body. Yeah. And then hormones get thrown off the stressor or taxing on our thyroid, just the energy to create another being. And I think you talked about personality traits, as Type A the perfectionist hard on yourself, the over worker, and I am saying how I think of those traits. And I think the process of pregnancy and afterwards is like the ultimate letting go like there is no amount of type A in your child that's going to get them to do what you want to do. If they don't want to do it. There's no more okay, I want to work harder and push harder to like, get this pregnancy to the finish line. You know what I mean? And it's really the ultimate letting go.Sarah Kneebone:
Yeah, it's like the best self development you could ever have. I think, like the bestEmily Kiberd:
and the hardest. Yeah, amazing. That'sSarah Kneebone:
the problem is like when you're younger, you can not be you should push yourself to these extremes, because your body can cope with it at age 20. You know, I was diagnosed at age 24. But like all of these things, adding up over time, and then having a baby. It's like you said, you know, the hormonal shift, huge, you know, the mental, especially with COVID and isolations and lock downs and depression and anxiety. And then you're dealing you've had all these physical shirts, and then you're dealing with this child that is so loud and won't get off you and you can't figure out what's wrong with them. And so like emotionally, that it's so draining and taxing and overstimulating and then mom guilt comes into it that is strong. It's so intense. And I think the other factor is that moms are so focused on their kids, that they're not thinking about their own health. And even being a health coach. I was not practicing what I preached for that first year, I was just pure survival mode, and did kind of none of the things are not enough of the things that I would usually do and kind of have in my toolbox to support myself. And so things just got more and more out of balance. And then you add in things like breastfeeding and how that depletes your energy and your nutrients and things like that. So it's just coming at me from all angles.Emily Kiberd:
I know especially raising that child through COVID, where the idea of it takes a village to raise a child but the village is not congregating because it's COVID It is like a next next level, you talk about those personality traits, the perfectionist a type A are actually trauma responses are patterns that things that we haven't worked through, can you speak to that?Sarah Kneebone:
Well, the work I was doing on myself because I really dove deep with Holistic Health beyond kind of food and diet and everything into the more spiritual side of things and emotional side of things. But also, just when I was seeing one to one clients, I noticed that every single woman I was speaking to you with hash tomatoes, all had those traits, every single and it's always a light bulb, like, that's me. And I used to actually be like, it's a Hashimotos personality. And then, through the work I did learning about learning about trauma, big T, little t. So for those of you don't know, like B T trauma can be like, sexual abuse, or like something really physical abuse, and like a one off event. And then little T trauma. Everybody has this in different ways. But it can be bullying or infidelity or divorce, it can be moving country, it could be even things from your childhood, that don't seem as bad. Or maybe you didn't pick up on our register as traumatic. But it can be things like a parent who was inconsistent, or wasn't there for you emotionally, or you use kind of old school disciplining techniques. So you often felt shamed or ignored, or even just parents who were really focused on performance and academic achievement. And that made you feel like you need to be better all the time. And your self worth doesn't come from just being you, it comes from what you can do and achieve. And all of these things add up to you having those traits because you're like, right, well, I've got to do better, and I'm not good enough as I am. And that leads to the perfectionism. And because you don't feel good enough about yourself, you will become a people pleaser, because you're trying to just keep everybody else happy, so that they'll like you, and they'll love you. And I realized that a lot of people with Hashimotos have been through some of this stuff that has formed them in this way, you know, potentially they have an insecure attachment style, more anxious attachment style. And so that's why they're doing these things. And then when I learned about all of that, and its connection with the nervous system, I realized, you know, even if you're not going to look at this from a spiritual perspective, which would be that mental attack that you're doing on yourself every day that prorating of yourself that you're doing is it's happening through autoimmunity to like your body is attacking itself. But if you look at epigenetics, Bruce Lipton has a great resource on this, your thoughts literally create your reality, your cells respond to what you're thinking, believing, and the emotions that are running through your body, even if it's subconscious, and you're not aware of it, because it's little things that have added up and it's chronic stress, and you're used to it. That's another problem like you just running around. I think Dr. Libby Weaver describes it as the rushing woman's syndrome, where you're just running through your day trying to take everything off the to do list trying to keep the family happy, like you take no time for yourself. And if you do you feel guilty about it, you literally running around in fight or flight mode all the time. And then you get to with hashes, your body can't cope. So then you get a Slayer and you get burnout and exhaustion and your prose and you're not able to access the parasympathetic state of the nervous system, which is rest, digest and heal mode. And so when you're not in that state, your body can't digest food properly, your functions and your systems aren't operating properly. If you bought you feel burnt out from stress, you know, you get adrenal fatigue, or your stress hormones are off, you're not absorbing your foods, you've got nutrient depletions, your mind is going bonkers, you literally can't heal from that state. And so I realized that the missing puzzle piece for a lot of people is that doing all the things you know, they're taking all the tests and the supplements and, and that might be all well and good. But without that missing piece of a nervous system that believes it's safe and safe enough to thrive and to function properly. You're never going to experience deep healing, balance, joy, playfulness, those emotions that come from being in a calm, grounded state. And I just realized that to so many of us, including myself, like the nervous system piece is really the missing piece of the puzzle. And becoming a mother is what made me realize that because I just couldn't do any more that I had to fix that to come back to balance forEmily Kiberd:
the Hashimotos moms who are listening to this podcast who, you know that first year of life, I just remember, don't kill the kid like just just like don't like just keep the child alive, right? Because you're worrying about SIDS and they're in the carrier. Can they breathe in your chest? Everything is such a heightened response. Yeah, moms who are like, Okay, I just got to keep the baby alive, putting aside probably what they could prioritize and are really thinking about maybe their nervous system health. What is one thing they could do that would be super simple, accessible to take care of themselves? Well,Sarah Kneebone:
there's a couple of things actually are mentioned. But first of all, breathwork so I'm a facilitator and I actually learned breathwork after having my son Jackson, because like I said, it just couldn't cope. And I ended up training to become a facilitator because it was so powerful, like everybody has access to their breath. And that's what I love about it, I find that really empowering, even stuff like doing breathing patterns where the exhale is longer. So if you're the kind of person that's just running around in firefight, you'll probably notice you're actually holding your breath a lot, you're just breathing from your chest a lot. And it's so important to breathe into the belly and through the diaphragm, and then do long exhales because that activates that parasympathetic state couple of techniques, you could try our box breathing. And this is good because you do breath holds at the top and the bottom. So you count for me inhale, hold for four, four, on the exhale hold for. And this is really calming to the nervous system. And easy to remember, because you just picture a box, and the rhythmic breathing calms your system. Another one that's really good is 478. Breathing. So in for for hold for seven out for eight. So obviously with that one, you've got the extended exhale. And this is really good for anxiety, this is really good for helping you sleep. Because again, it just slows your system down. And it also gives you something to focus on. So if you are that kind of person that has a really busy brain, then often meditation can be hard. And then you just beat yourself up because you're like, I can't make my brain be quiet. Whereas it breathwork, but something to concentrate on. And it helps you drop into the body. And out of those kind of chaotic thoughts. Another one that's really good that you can Google as well is you can do different vagal nerve massages, so you can actually massage the inner bit of your ear, if you just rub the inner bit of your air in slow circles, you probably quite quickly notice that it relaxes your system. And if you just do that with deep breaths for a couple of minutes, it's really, really calming. So those types of practices can be good if you're about to go into a big meeting, or if you're trying to sleep, or just anytime you notice or you know that you're going to be in that kind of fight flight state. And really, it's like exercise, like I'm sure you advise your clients that it needs to be like little and often to really train the muscle. It's almost like training a muscle working on your vagus nerve. And over time, you can build your nervous systems capacity to tolerate stress and recover from stress faster.Emily Kiberd:
So the goal is not to not experience stress, right? Because it's inevitable. I think there's a narrative in our culture of like stress, less, do more stress, less de stress. And I always thought it, it felt very confusing. I'm like, well, stress is going to happen, like, yeah, train de stress all day, but I'm walking down the street and almost get hit by a car like that cortisol is our motivation hormone. So instead of the thought process of don't stress or distress, what would you encourage someone how to wrap their mind around stressors?Sarah Kneebone:
Yeah, I think it's quite freeing, even just the way you've described that, you know, like you can't avoid stress. And if you've spent all your life trying to avoid is actually probably going to stress you out more. Because a lot of this is external, like things happen to you. So it's about having practices that first of all, it's about dealing with any trauma or stressors in your life, being able to process them and move through them. So not numbing out from emotions or pushing them away. Maybe that would be through therapy. But I found what helps me as somatic practices in the body. So you don't actually have to revisit that trauma verbally. And just keep talking about it. A lot of people don't even know that they've got trauma because it's been buried as a protection from your body. So things like EFT tapping can help EMDR the rapid eye movement. breathwork is also really powerful as a body based technique to move through emotion. And I do sessions like that, which are more activating to process emotion. And then you've got the daily tools like the parasympathetic activating tools, when you do them consistently. It trains your nervous system to be able to switch between those modes. So if something stressful happens to you, you will react to it. But you then have the tools to bring yourself back to calm quicker, it's easier, it's like a less painful process. And so life just becomes more joyful and more balanced. And you end up feeling more grounded, and happier. Because it almost becomes like an addiction to the drama, like an addiction to the adrenaline that you're running through life with. But at the end of the day, we all want more joy and more peace and it will help you with that.Emily Kiberd:
How do you know when you've gotten to the other side of processing trauma, because coming back to that baseline of rest, digest the calmness can maybe sometimes feel similar to a numbing feeling. How do you know if you've done the work? You're thinking, Okay, I've processed the trauma. What does it feel like on the other side? No, like I processed the traumaSarah Kneebone:
with numbing it's like an avoidant energy whereas with healing and was out the other side as you're fed to it. I mean, no one's perfect. Everyone's still gonna have triggers. Everyone is still going to have new stuff. that's happening to them that they've got a face. So it's never like a try to get to an end goal situation, you actually feel more presence. Whereas with avoidance and shutting down, you're actually pushing away any feelings. So you won't have the positive feelings either. If you're not willing to face grief, and those quote unquote negative emotions and anger, for example, a lot of women don't feel safe to express anger, because society has told us, that's not what we should do. And if we do it, then we're acting crazy. When actually, if you get on your bed and scream into a pillow, because you're angry, you will feel so much better. But the result is that you feel present lot of people who are have PTSD or complex PTSD, so that's with small t trauma, they will find that they can go for a walk, but they're not present by John are noticing the birds singing, you're not noticing the sound of the leaves rustling, you're just like on your phone, or thinking about something else. Whereas when you can use these tools to come back to that balance that rest, digest and heal mode, and your body starts operating properly, you'll find that you notice those small things, and you have more joy in the small moments, which is at the end of the day, what life is all about?Emily Kiberd:
Yeah. Why is this so important with someone with Hashimotos? Right, like, everyone should be doing this work? Yeah. But especially with an autoimmune condition.Sarah Kneebone:
Yeah, I think the reason why it's such a big deal is firstly, because a lot of us are these type of people that have been through this type of stuff. So we've got these issues they need addressing. And secondly, because obviously with autoimmunity, and thyroid issues, it's so connected to other systems in your body. And so you might be aware that you need to work on your adrenal house, you need to work on your gut health, all these different aspects, but none of it will slot into place properly until you've addressed the nervous system. And so that's why I like to think of it as like this missing puzzle piece, a lot of people will find that they reach healing plateaus, you know, they went gluten free. And that's made them feel a bit better, like a less bloated, whatever. But then they're just like, I don't feel great, though, it's still hard, I'm still tired, you're stuck in these cycles, like I said, of like chronic stress, chronic stress, push, push, okay, now I'm exhausted, and I can't do anything. And I feel really guilty about that. Okay, so I'm gonna, like, work really hard and beat myself up. And like, if you're in that loop, then that's a sign that you need to do this work. So it's like, you've got a fragile system anyway, and you've got generally a few different issues going on. And so in order to enable all this other amazing work you're doing like was what you do with exercise, in order to enable all this to happen and work better, you need to be in this rest, digest and heal mode. Because otherwise, this work is not going to have the same impact the other work you're doing, and it's not going to have the same effect, you know, you could be varying 1000s of dollars down the drain on a functional medicine doctor, but your heightened stress response is not allowing any of those supplements that you've just paid all this money for, to actually be absorbed and work. So it's kind of just like, it's a really key puzzle piece. And so I advise it to anybody who is I just can't feel bad no matter what I'm trying. Or anyone who just can see themselves in this pattern of like the Russian woman obsessed with the to do list, drained, angry, irritable, bear the signs.Emily Kiberd:
So where does this feeling come in, in the Hashimotos? Hierarchy? Would this be applicable for someone who maybe just started thyroid medication? is living in a moldy house has brain fog? Like, would they benefit from this kind of work? Or should they clean up some of the things that might feel more tangible, and then do the work?Sarah Kneebone:
I think that's a good way of putting it honestly, you will benefit from doing this from the beginning. And it will support everything else, as I mentioned, but I think sometimes when you're in the thick of it, and like I remember this feeling of desperation, I don't think it's somebody has said to me, do you want to go process your trauma? I'd have been like, yeah, it's that kind of stuff. Like, Am I cool? It's the last module. It's like, Let's attack some low hanging fruit first, like, Let's go gluten free, for example, the stuff that is more tangible and easier to kind of wrap your head around now that it's easy to give up bread. I mean, that was hard. But I do advise to maybe not tackle it right? The beginning because it it can be heavy. But in terms of the simple practices, like breath work to calm your system. I mean, that's that's an easy win. That is a low hanging fruit. So it depends what part of it talking about. And it also depends on the person. Everyone's open to these things at different stages. And you know, I had a look one to one clients who come to me and they just want to focus on food. But then by the end of the program, they're doing the trauma work. So it depends how open to it you are, you know how much you can reflect on yourself. And yeah, so it's really by individual, I think, yeah, you don't have to do it first if it feels really overwhelming, and you can do it in small amounts as wellEmily Kiberd:
feel like especially the breath work very easily. integratable especially you know a lot of Hashi ladies we lay down especially if we have adrenal insufficiency and we're tired we're exhausted. We been dragging all day but well wired that tired, you're using that breath work. You're literally laying down. You're trying to go to sleep. You could do box breathing or something along those lines to not only calm the brain but to help put yourself to sleep. Definitely such good information. Where can people find you?Sarah Kneebone:
Yeah, so my Instagram is the main place I hang out. So it's at Mojo health space. And I have like Mr. Lincoln bio, I have links to freebies, like I have an AIP budgeting and meal planning guide. I also have a podcast called The more Mojo podcast. So you probably understand from my name that like I'm all about getting your mojo back. So it's interviews with women who somehow she's somewhere out that have overcome obstacles in their life to thrive. And my company is basically all about getting your zest for life back, stepping into that woman that you once were that you lost, and an even better version and just paying your energy back getting your like, happiness, excitement, passion back. And I think that's what so many of us with Ashley motors, feel like we're missing out on Yeah, I'm usually over there. I also have a course, an online course. And this is like a six week course that takes you through a whole blueprint of how she made his intermission how I helped my one to one clients do it. And it goes through from the beginning, going through the grieving process, and all of that, to like diet practitioners, medication, testing, career, lifestyle, everything outside of food, as well as optimizing your relationships, detoxing, and then in the last module, we go into all of the emotional healing, the nervous system, breath, work, and all of that. So it really is kind of the whole package. That's the main place where I'm working with women at the moment with caches and all those links are on my Instagram, I have started a tech talk, but I just think I'm not Gen Z enough for it.Emily Kiberd:
Just dive right in. I love it spin. And we'll include all those links in the show notes. But I love that spin up more Mojo because I think sometimes getting diagnosed can feel so heavy and then the journey of testing and stool tests and more stool tests and urine and blood draws and all the things and then protocols and binders and saunas can feel really heavy. And so sometimes I think women being type a perfectionist kind of like put our head down and charged through when really the goal is to feel more joy to feel lighter, a breath of fresh air to feel like ourselves again. So I love that more Mojo spend on it. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. It was so wonderful having you on thyroid strong podcast.Sarah Kneebone:
Thank you so much for having me. It's been brilliant.Emily Kiberd:
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