Upcoming Event!

How Can Mindfulness Help You Reach Financial Independence?

Do you want to reduce money anxiety, but don’t know who to trust?

Would you like to learn how to set up and manage your own retirement plan?

Do you want to know how we create a passive income stream you can’t outlive?

If yes, join us and learn how to answer the 4 critical financial independence questions:

• Am I on track for financial independence?
• What do I need to do to get on track?
• How do I design a mindful investing portfolio?
• How do I manage that portfolio and my income over time through changing markets?

Learn more: https://courses.mindful.money/financial-independence-bootcamp

Hanna Bier is an energy healer, a family constellation expert, and a certified life coach. She works with ambitious women all over the world to recreate their relationship with money in a life-affirming, positive, and loving way. Hanna spent seven years on the question, ‘Is it possible to create wealth without compromising health, wellness, or happiness?’ And the answer, she has found, is ‘Yes.’

Today, Hanna joins the show to talk about the generational shift of money mindsets, the importance of energy, intuition and quietness of mind, and how she helps her clients transform their relationship with money from the inside out.

📺 Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/kiAux6b97FY

Key Takeaways

00:47 – Jonathan introduces today’s guest, Hanna Bier, who joins the show to share her experience growing up in Germany, overcoming depression and financial lessons she learned early on

07:41 – Generational differences in money mindset

11:15 – Hanna explains her roles as energy healer, family constellation expert, and life coach

16:13 – The importance of slowing down and asking deep questions

25:21 – Hanna reflects on her mother’s experience and what she learned from it

28:53 – Family constellation therapy explained

34:33 – Money bliss and ‘money magic’

40:36 – Why it’s ok to let money matter

48:05 – Lies about money

52:39 – One piece of financial advice to heed and one thing to completely ignore

57:04 – The last thing Hanna changed her mind about and one thing she wishes others knew about her

1:00:22 – Jonathan thanks Hanna for joining the show today and lets listeners know where to connect with her

Tweetable Quotes

“One of the things that I now explore with my clients is the idea of making choices based on money versus making choices based on soul. Without being able to put words, that was what I was seeking when I was younger.” (06:11) (Hanna)

“I don’t think we’d be able to dream these gigantic, outrageous dreams if it weren’t for the comfort and the stability that the previous generations have built. That’s kind of how I see it. We’re building upon the amazingness that we already have, because if not we would be in the same boat.” (10:19) (Hanna)

“It always starts with ourselves. As we begin to clear our own debris, we can then also teach the people in our lives. And we can notice, ‘Oh, the dirt is accumulating with my kids, with my spouse, with my parents, with whoever is open to hearing about it’ And so we pass on the tools. That is the world we dream of.” (20:28) (Hanna)

“In my experience, life coaching brings you an ability to work with life and to effectively move through the seasons and cycles of life and to extract the good stuff so you can grow, and be stronger, and better, and healthier as a result of it.” (24:49) (Hanna)

“So, in family constellation therapy, we work in the energy field of your family system. And so all of the souls of your family are present. This is great news for those of us who have parents who are deceased, incarcerated, institutionalized, who may be crazy or violent and we can’t be in the room with them.” (29:52) (Hanna)

“Money is a life force energy on this planet. It’s also a means of expressing appreciation to one another. This is why I’m so passionate about having conversations around money and weaving those truths into those conversations.” (43:14) (Hanna)

“Money is something that is man made. It is a structure that we’ve created. The origins of money can be traced back and yet it is an expression of appreciation, it is a means of exchange of value. And I do believe that money is a natural resource - something that we use to nourish and support ourselves and each other.” (48:15) (Hanna)

Guest Resources

Hanna’s Website

Hanna’s Email

Hanna’s Instagram

Mindful Money Resources

For all the free stuff at Mindful Money: https://mindful.money/resources

To buy Jonathan’s first book - Mindful Money: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Money-Practices-Financial-Increasing/dp/1608684369

To buy Jonathan’s second book – Mindful Investing: https://www.amazon.com/Mindful-Investing-Outcome-Greater-Well-Being/dp/1608688763

Subscribe to Jonathan’s Weekly Newsletter: https://courses.mindful.money/email-opt-in

Capture the most important benefit of an advisor – behavioral support – without the 1% fee: https://courses.mindful.money/membership

For more complex, one on one financial planning and investing support with Jonathan or a member of Jonathan’s team: https://www.epwealth.com/our-team/berkeley/jonathan-deyoe/

Website: https://mindful.money

Jonathan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathandeyoe

🎙️

Podcast Production & Marketing by FullCast

Back to Podcast Homepage

Jonathan DeYoe: Hi there. Welcome back. On this episode of the Mindful Money Podcast, I’m chatting with Hannah Bier Hannah is an energy healer, a, uh, family constellation expert, and a certified life coach. She works with ambitious women all over the world to recreate their relationship with money in a life affirming, positive, and loving way. Hannah spent seven years on the question, and I love this, is it possible to create wealth without compromising health, wellness, or happiness? Can we create abundance while living in joy? I mean, just that sentence is probably critical for us to all think about. Her answer is yes. And she shows her clients how, by transforming their relationship with money from the inside out. Hannah, uh, welcome to the Mindful Money podcast.

Hanna Bier: I’m so excited to be here, Jonathan. Thanks for having me.

Jonathan DeYoe: I’m happy to have you. Where do you call home, and where are you connecting from now?

Hanna Bier: I’m calling in from Germany.

Jonathan DeYoe: And is it you’re calling in? Is that where you live as well?

Hanna Bier: Yes, I’m originally from Pittsburgh, grew up in Germany, spent summers in Pittsburgh and Christmas in Pittsburgh, and then went to school in Germany, graduated from high school here. And then I just kind of lived in many different places, lived in Indonesia and Amsterdam and London. And then we decided as a little family to move to Germany just recently, and it’s been awesome.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. So Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Hanna Bier: That’s right.

Jonathan DeYoe: Okay, so when you’re growing up in Germany, and this may be different than some of the lessons that kids might learn in the US, but what did you learn about money and entrepreneurship growing up?

Hanna Bier: Yeah. Germany is a very interesting place because, especially where I grew up in the south of Germany, there’s these gigantic companies like Boeing is based here, IBM are based here. The city where I come from, Stutgart, uh, Porsche is based here. Mercedesbenz is ten minutes down the road. Of course, I drive a Benz as well, because when you live here, that’s what you do. And so I had all these examples of huge companies, and then there were people who were contractors and traders, but there is not really a self employment or small business culture here. It’s very uncommon. Usually people study engineering or something like that, and then they go and work in the big companies. So growing up, I didn’t even think that I could ever just be a one person business or a one person plus subcontractors business. That’s something that I discovered through my connection to the United States, where that’s a lot more common. But I remember growing up was feeling really depressed and anxious. And I’m very introverted. I’m very sensitive. And the idea of having to work for 40 years for one big company and not having any, uh, choice or any freedom in terms of how I wanted to live my life felt impossible for me. It felt very daunting and something I didn’t want to do. But I also didn’t really see another possibility. And so that’s where I’m really grateful for the Internet and the fact that we can connect to all these different people around the world that give us new ideas on how we can make a living.

Jonathan DeYoe: So you talked about the small contractors. I’m imagining that, uh, in a town that’s surrounded by large industry, there’s also things like restaurants, small mon pa, retail shops, the person that lays the tile, somebody that does brickwork, contractors, these kinds of things. Were they also larger, or were they kind of smaller local businesses?

Hanna Bier: Smaller local businesses. Uh, yeah. But I knew that that wasn’t the path I wanted to go down. Ever since I can imagine, I’ve always been a traveler and someone who’s very adventurous. And that’s the question that was on my mind. Like, how do I integrate my need to take care of myself with this extreme depression that I was in, with my desire to want to explore the world, with my desire to want to spend as much time as, uh, I wanted to with my. Now I have a little daughter. One of my biggest accomplishments in life was to be able to work from home and to be able to spend as much time with her as we both need and want. And so from an early age, that was kind of what I was pondering, and I didn’t think that there was a solution. I thought that was like a crazy goal to set for yourself, to integrate all those different aspects that are important to me, but I thought I’d give it a try anyway. And so thinking that so being based in one place also felt something that I just was not willing or able to do. And so what do you do? Right. If you have parents who work for big companies their entire lives, if you’ve got the idea that you could be somebody who lays child or somebody who fixes cars, but then you’re so location dependent, and again, you have the nat nine to five. And so, yeah, I think I’ve been trying to find my place from an early age.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. Do you have any early memories of. It sounds like your parents both work for big companies, but do you have any early memories of conversations about money or issues with money when you were a kid?

Hanna Bier: Yeah. My mom definitely felt trapped for most of her life needing to make money. And both my brother and I, we always had to stay after school. And in the after school program, somebody would have to do her, because my mom was at work, and sometimes we would spend time at our grandparents. But my mom very much shared saying, I have to make money. This isn’t a choice. I have to go to work, whether I like it or not. And therefore, my life is very limited. One of the things that I now explore with my clients is the idea of making choices based on money versus making choices based on soul, without being able to put words. That’s what I was seeking when I was younger. I was never the person who thought, I want to have a big house or a big car or a big this or a big that. For me, it was the freedom to choose, the freedom to be congruent, the freedom to live an honest, truthful life, the freedom to not need to compromise my deepest core values in the name of money. And I saw the adults in my life make decisions solely on money, have to go to work because of money, can’t go on vacation because of money, have to do this. And money was the decision maker. And so, in my youthful naivete, I thought, I don’t ever want to have to make money the big decision maker in my life. I want to find a way where I can live in a way that feels good. Now, the language that really clicks with me is making decisions based on soul. That’s one of the goals that I have with my clients, is to reorganize our finances on the inside and on the outside so that we can make decisions based on soul. So that the question like, what do I eat? Where do I go on vacation? How do I spend my time and my day are not based on money. And that’s something I feel very strongly about now.

Jonathan DeYoe: So every time I do a, uh, podcast interview, I prepare some questions and people that are on. The people that are interviewees send me some questions, and every time I go off script because there’s something interesting I want to ask. So I wonder if you’re unique or if you sense that same frustration among your peer group about, I can’t be locked in. I don’t want to have a nine to five. I don’t want to have to check in and check out. And is it something that’s generational? Because I think that what’s called the greatest generation, I think they laid that groundwork, that nine to five big company retire in 30, 40 years. I think they laid that groundwork, and I think Gen X kind of. My Generation kind of followed suit. I think the next two generations are breaking that down. So you see that kind of generationally.

Hanna Bier: I think it’s human evolution. I am so grateful for the previous generations, and exactly how you said it, they laid the groundwork in all aspects of life. I am now able to thrive because of all the feminists that came before me. I’m now able to thrive because of both of my grandparents on my mom’s side, were refugees during World War II. They came to Germany, rebuilt a country that was rubble, rebuilt a country that to this day is riddled with shamefully so right. We all know I’m, um, so, so grateful for all the groundwork that was laid. And our generation also often or I used to feel like that the previous generations want us to be more grateful for what we have. But the way I see it is that we’re building on everything that they’ve built, and we’re now in such a comfortable place that we can explore greater questions, like morality. When it comes to money, we can say, we understand that money needs to be made. We understand that the bills need to be paid. We understand that foods needs to be on the table. And we’re now in such a good place that we can now explore, how do we make a living without breaking ourselves down completely and then try to build ourselves back up again in our retirement? We can ponder these greater questions because we’re not a post war generation. We’re not a generation that has just. That’s like a big. What’s it called? Like, the birth boom, when all of a sudden, there were gazillions of babies, and all those buildings needed to be put up really quickly. Our generation, and I love that so much. We can ponder these very big questions, and I, um, also hope that our big pondering and our crazy thinking that the previous generations also understand that we’re trying to benefit everyone that we try to break everything apart. Like, how about a four hour work week? Or how about working from home? Or how about hybrid working? Or how about being a digital nomad? Or how about all of these things? Because we’ve seen our parents struggle and suffer so much, and we don’t want to be depleted parents for our children. And so I don’t think that we would be able to dream these gigantic, outrageous dreams if it weren’t for the comfort and the stability that the previous generations have built. That’s kind of how I see it. We’re building upon the amazingness that we already have, because if not, we would be in the same boat of, like, just have to get to work, have to get any job, just have to do what needs to be done.

Jonathan DeYoe: So something happened while you were speaking that has only happened, like, twice since I’ve been doing interviews like this. I had shivers. The idea that it’s not portrayed this way in press. What’s portrayed in press is this new generation is taking advantage of or is lazy. And you’ve just said, hey, we are so grateful for everything that came before, and it’s given us the ability to ask these questions we’re asking now. That feels like agitation. It feels painful to those generations that came before, but it’s really building on it. And I think that it’s a beautiful, beautiful way to think about it. So I just want to say thank you for that. Can you tell us how those three diverse skill sets, energy healer, family constellation expert, life coach, how do those things come together? And first, tell us what they are. Some people don’t know what some of those things are.

Jonathan DeYoe: So there’s a lot there to unpack. You said something really early that I want to tease out a little bit. We’ve had a couple of guests kind of touch on this, but you said, and this is in reference to people not seeing the energy that you see, but you said something to the effect. These people, it’s unbelievable that they can’t see what I see. They can’t see it. They can’t see it, right. I wonder. I’ve experienced the same thing where early on, there’s stress, there’s trouble, there’s difficulty. But I’ve meditated for 25 years for a long, long, long time. Not 8 hours a day, every day, but substantial amount of time. And I think that I’m more intuitive because of that. I think that I have a better sense of what’s going on. So whether you call it aura, uh, or energy or intuition or, I think the quieting of the mind just gives us better ability to see and I think we’ve lost that largely in the west. We’re sort of a, uh, non religious. We call ourselves spiritual. But I talk to people that don’t want to do the work. They don’t want to actually sit. They call their in the flow time meditation, where it’s not really meditation. Right? So how important is it that we slow down? How important is it that we ask those really critical questions to recapture our ability to manage our own lives?

Hanna Bier: Yeah. It always feels to me like when somebody first comes to me and they’re all the way at the very beginning, and they say, my life isn’t working, like my money isn’t working, I feel terrible. It feels like I’m completely lost. I don’t even know where to start. To me, the situation that they’re in and that I used to be in, it’s like you’re sitting in a car that is caked with mud and the windshield wipers don’t work. And you know that you want to get to a really great destination, but you can’t even see out the window, right? Like you don’t know. Are you on a path? Are you not on a path? You don’t know, how far should I go? Where should I go? You might have a map, but that’s useless to you because you can’t see. And so what you’re talking about to me is like the wiping away of the mud. And all of us go through life and we accumulate mud. Mud from our parents, mud from society, mud from confidence wobbles that we picked up in school, and those stupid things that we say. And then we feel so embarrassed and then we think, oh, stupid me. And all that self berating that starts to trickle in, right? Like all that mud. And we learn that we can take an outer shower to wipe away with the dirt from our day, but we don’t learn how to take an inner shower. And so it’s a matter of time. Do we have our breakdown moment in our twenty s, in our thirty s, in our forty s, in our fifty s, in our 60s? That’s how much dirt and mud we accumulate. Until we hopefully find meditation, or we find energy clearing tools, or we find something to begin to clean our car. Once the car is clean, that is the very first thing. Because if you can’t see, don’t even bother driving, you’re just going to hit a tree. It’s useless. Once that’s clear, my clients always say, but teach me the way, teach me the way. But once the mud is clear, you’ll see the way you can see oh, here’s the path. These are the signs. This is my map. Okay? So this is the velocity that I can go. These are the resources available on the way. And we haven’t even really started strategizing yet. So it is essential without clearing the mud and getting clear on the inside. Don’t even bother. Right. That was my starting point. I needed to clear and clear and clear. And then the scary world didn’t look so scary anymore because I could see it more clearly.

Jonathan DeYoe: I’m wondering if it requires that you called it a breakdown moment. Do you have to have a breakdown moment? Or can you kind of come to this when you’re 18 and you find yoga and a great teacher, and you read a great book, and it turns you right on and you don’t ever have to, you avoid all the mud. Can you avoid the mud or is the mud a guarantee?

Hanna Bier: That’s, uh, the work you and I are trying to do, right? Like, we’re trying to teach people how to take the inner shower before the breakdown moment happens. But if you’ve never even encountered the idea that you could ever clean your car and nobody cleans their car, and that’s just. It never rains. I just didn’t come across it. I never came across meditation. I never came across energy clearing tools. And now my clients’children, like, all of my clients that have children, are like. And my kids are doing my meditation with me every day, and my kids are doing these things in school when they’re bored, and all of them use the tools. And so I think one thing is that it always starts with ourselves as we begin to clear our own debris. We can then also teach the people in our lives. And we can kind of notice, oh, the dirt is accumulating with my kids, with my spouse, with my parents, with whoever is open to hearing about it. And so we pass on the tools. That is the world we dream of. Like, if I may be so bold, to kind of assume about your mission, isn’t that the world we dream of, where people get these tools much earlier on and that becomes a normal thing? We brush our teeth, we take a shower, we eat healthy food, and we cleanse our inner world over and over and over again so we can see the world clearly and keep moving forward with an open heart.

Jonathan DeYoe: So my last couple of interviews, this quote came up, and I never get the quote right, but it’s the Marianne Williamson quote. And the second half of it is something to the effect, when you let your light shine, you give others around you, the permission to let their light shine. Right? So by having the tools, by doing the clearing, by whatever it is, meditation, prayer, whatever your process is, because I do think they’re all very similar and they all sort of lead to the same place, but if you do it, then you’re brighter, you’re shinier, and people will go, hey, what are you doing? And that’s how you pass that on. So it’s fantastic work. I’m curious how you got all three of those things. Because they’re different things and different career paths. How did you get them all to come together? How did you sort of congeal this threesome into something that works?

Hanna Bier: Yeah, I remember having a conversation with my coach all the way in the beginning, and I kept saying, I’m not good enough. I can’t give my clients the results that I want them to have. And she was like, oh, you have to believe in yourself and do these confidence affirmations. And I was like, you don’t understand. I’m not good enough. My work isn’t good enough. It’s not helping, it’s not good enough. I’m not good enough. And so to me, it wasn’t, ah, a block that I had. To me, it was the actual truth. If my clients aren’t getting the results that they need to get, then just, it’s like if I’m selling tomatoes or cucumbers and the person isn’t getting the tomato that they want or it’s moldy, I’m at fault. And so I admitted to myself that the tools that I had just weren’t working to the extent that I wanted them to work. I realized that my clients weren’t feeling significantly better in a reasonable amount of time. My clients weren’t feeling like they had their money situation figured out for the rest of their lives. They didn’t have that big full body release and just sleeping better and feeling healthier and happier and all of those things that I was dreaming for them. And so I needed to explore all of these avenues, to piece it all together. That’s what it takes. In my experience, I believe that the family constellation therapy is essential because all of our stuff comes from our families and we all know it. And then we go out into the world and we’re like, oh, I’m just going to go read this book. I’m just going to go do these meditations. Just going to completely ignore that I’m actually a part of a greater system, which is my family of origin. And so again, it’s the western society that likes to pretend that we’re these individuals that are unaffected by anyone around us, but our family matters so much without I can’t help somebody heal their relationship with money or even anything else without taking the family into account. It’s like we’re trying to grow this beautiful, healthy garden that is your life. But the soil is toxic. And so I realized that was one of the big things that I discovered was we’re trying to plant different seeds and restructure everything and trim the bushes and hang up a swing on the beautiful tree. But the soil was so toxic in the sense the family system that I needed to begin teaching to my clients that if you want to work with me, if we’re going to do healing together, we’re going to start with your family. We’re going to resolve the big traumas with mom, with dad, the big traumas in your family system. It’s going to not only be a huge release for you, but also for everybody else involved. Love and energy is going to flow so much better through your family system, and that’s when we can begin planting the seeds. So my short answer is, I believe that it takes all of this. I believe that it takes the personal wiping of the windshield. It takes the preparing of the soil, in the sense the healing of the family system. It also takes the life coaching, which is, in my experience, life coaching brings you an ability to work with life and to effectively move through the seasons and cycles of life and to extract the good stuff so you can grow and be stronger and better and healthier as a result of it versus life just beating you down. And I believe that if I didn’t integrate all of those things, I would be lying. I would be trying to sell my clients something that is not complete and that is not going to work. And I could not be doing this work. I would just crawl into bed and hide.

Jonathan DeYoe: Wow. I want to bring it back. I don’t know if listeners caught this, but you’re talking about family constellation therapy. And you said just in a snippet right at the beginning of the program, you said, my mom was trapped. So I’m curious if you could just. So we have an example, pull that thread through. My mom was trapped. I grew up in a household where my mom felt trapped. That created what for you? And then how did you resolve that?

Hanna Bier: Yeah, so that was my mom’s experience. I have to. There is no choice. I feel completely trapped. For me, something that I learned was that money is more important than love and that love comes second love comes after all the boring adulty stuff is taken care of. Love is always in second place. And I think that is another theme of my life that I fought for to reverse. I believe that love needs to come first and I believe that it can all be integrated. So a big thing that really frustrated me was that it always felt like I was learning these amazing, helpful new concepts. And in my head I thought, oh, I don’t want to be like my family. So I’m going to go do these amazing new concepts, implement them, and then I’m going to go have success. But it felt like invisible hands were guiding me in the direction of my family. And it was infuriating because I knew what to do, but somehow it was like there was a poltergeist in my life. I just couldn’t get myself to move in the right direction and to feel safe there and to trust it. Until I discovered family constellation therapy that teaches that our family of origin are the most important people in our lives. They gave us the greatest gift anybody could have given us, which is the gift of life. Without our family, we would not be here. We are half mom, half dad. And if they’re anything like my parents, they’re somewhere on a spectrum of psychotic to flawed, probably not perfect people. Just like I’m a parent myself. I’m on that spectrum, too. So anybody listening who’s got kids, who’s like, yeah, just know I’m with you. And there’s this just so beautiful. There’s this first need as human beings is to belong to our family. That need is more important than to be rich, than to be skinny, than to be liked, than to be famous, than to be like all of those wonderful goals that we set for ourselves. Belonging to our family is paramount, comes first. It trumps willpower. It trumps anything that you decide in your mind if you feel in your life, oh, my God, yes. I keep saying, I’m going to go save that money, I’m going to go work with Jonathan, I’m going to go do all of those things, and you just don’t freaking ever get there. I’m going to go make 30,000 a month, or I’m going to go increase my profits, or I’m going to go, whatever it is, finally start investing, not be such a scaredy cat, whatever it is. And you just can’t seem to get there and you’re calling it self sabotage. The family constellation therapy perspective is that it’s not sabotage out of love and loyalty to your family. You’re bonding with them in unconscious ways. And so that’s the work that we do in family constellation therapy. We help you bond with your family in healthy ways, in ways that move, uh, you forward in life versus keep you trapped in the same patterns that they’re trapped in. That was a big moment for me where I realized I could honor and love my family and be hugely successful and have a career that is nothing like what my parents do. And so. And to still have that loving connection that just grows deeper was something I didn’t know was available to me. But, yeah, it’s cool. It’s amazing.

Jonathan DeYoe: So, uh, you’re going to give me some therapy here real quick as a family consultation therapist. Okay. So I’m going to ask you a very specific question. My father, while I was growing up, he has an MBA. He really tried to be a successful businessman. He was never really successful. The first ten years, maybe 15 years of my career, I struggled and struggled and struggled and struggled and struggled. And then I got a coach, and that coach gave me two, three things that I had to do. And then from that moment on, I started getting really successful. So I don’t think I’ve ever dealt with. And I today feel a little guilt. Honestly, I feel a little guilt about my success relative to my family of origin, my dad specifically. And I’m just wondering, how do we eliminate that? I mean, you must have a process. What is the process to eliminate some of those feelings that still pull on us from our family?

Hanna Bier: Yeah. In family constellation therapy, we use something that’s the language of love, and it’s a conversation between souls. So in family constellation therapy, we work in the energy field of your family system. And so we put, like, all of the souls of your family are present. This is great news for those of us who have parents who are deceased, who are incarcerated, who are institutionalized, who are just straight up crazy, who are violent, who we can’t be in a room with. Right. Like, all of my clients have these things. Some of my clients are adopted. How do we start there? Don’t even know who my parents are. Good news is you’re connected to an energy field of your family of origin. All the souls are present, and so we can do healing work between the souls, which is lovely. Nobody ever has to know that you’re doing family constellation therapy, and you can still get all the benefits. And so when we do accounts to constellation, we do, uh, a language of love. And one of my favorite things to say between souls is it’s usually what I do as a therapist. Where I just point out certain truths. And one of those truths that we believe in, in family constellation therapy, is that the best parts of your dad would want you to build on, um, everything that he has worked so hard to build. And he would want you to be happy. He would want you to be well. And the purpose of the younger generations is to do life a little better and a little differently than our parents did. That’s our job, that’s our goal. And you’ve got some things in common with your dad that you’re probably really proud of, just, like, some traits that you have in common that you’re so glad you have, or maybe he’s amazing at something and you really want to be like him. So my encouragement is to focus on that, because you have to be connected with your family. There is no other way around it. But the more you consciously connect, like with my mom, we don’t connect through money because she’s hella broke. I’m not going down that path. We connect because she’s an adventurous spirit. She is strong. She loves to ski. I snowboard. We go ski and snowboard together. We go climb mountains together. We go have crazy ideas, do those together. And when you bond through the good that you have in common, there’s less pressure on you to need to bond through the other things. And so that’s just a little approach in family constellation therapy that I believe is so beautiful.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah, it literally brought. I had to. I got vocamp. I have tears in my eyes thinking about it. Some of the words you said there.

Hanna Bier: May I say just one more thing for anyone listening who’s like, if you want to make me very happy and be a teacher’s pet, for many people, it feels very good. If your relationship with your parent allows to go up to the parent and say, hey, dad, I know that you’ve had this dream of being an entrepreneur for a long time in your life. As a son. I watched you. I felt so inspired, so amazed. To me, you were the greatest hero, so intelligent, so amazing. I wanted nothing for you than for you to succeed. Now I’m stepping into your footsteps. I want to build, um, on everything that you’ve built and everything that you’ve given me. And I’m so grateful for the groundwork that you’ve laid for me. But sometimes I wonder if I’m moving a little too far away from you. Are you proud of me? And most sane parents would say, of course I’m proud of. I’m so happy that you’re so successful. There is always a part of us that kind of craves for parents to give us the blessing and the permission to surpass them. And so sometimes the relationship allows for us to have this conversation, real life. And I cannot tell you the healing that brings for both parent and child. And it’s like the people just, they fly. Like my clients just, they go off and they ten times their income that year and they go home to tell the parent because the biggest wall was broken down. Anyway, I love it for anyone listening who feels that is helpful.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah, that was incredible. That is the last time I asked to be the guinea pig on the show because I can’t handle it, it turns out. That’s fantastic. I will go, uh, listen to this, and then I will go and share that with my dad. My dad is actually always. He’s always know. Jonathan, I’m so proud of you. You’ve done everything I could hope for. All the things you’ve said, he’s actually said to me. It’s a beautiful thing, but I think that I still hold on a little bit to the guilt, which know it’s in me, it’s not in him. Right. It’s a beautiful thing.

Hanna Bier: You’re designed to, um, Bond.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. You’ve been on a lot of podcasts. You have an audience. I wasn’t convinced prior to talking to you here for a few minutes, but I want to level with you a little bit. When I started using mindfulness and money in the same sentence over a decade ago, I was really afraid that people would look at me cross eyed. And some people did look at me cross eyed. They were like, this is ridiculous. Mindfulness, money don’t go together. So I’m really wondering what kinds of looks or words you get when you use words like clairvoyance, magical, abundance, money, bliss, it all sounds like it’s not real. So what kind of words and responses do you get?

Hanna Bier: Yeah, I can’t help but agree, because absolutely, it’s completely wacky. Uh, for most people, it feels absolutely removed from reality. Ah. How does this even work? Are you just sitting there with a crystal ball? Right. Because the current paradigm that most of us experience with money is the complete opposite of what I embody and what I teach. So, for most people, when they first come across my work, or even me in everyday life, there is a canyon between those two worlds. But I believe that in our bodies, we feel that the current paradigm with money is wrong because it feels painful. It feels painful to need to drag yourself to a job every day. It feels painful to hope for a retirement, it feels painful to constantly defer your happiness or to compromise your deepest values in the name of money. And so my approach is that I just think about, like, if they’re curious, if they’re asking questions, even if they tell me, well, this is strange. So stupid. This is so silly. This is so, uh, right. I’m just like, okay, but they’re curious. They’re asking something. Inside of them knows that their current approach to money isn’t working. And even if it’s not me that they end up working with, maybe they find you, Jonathan. Maybe they more connect with your line of work. But that glimmer of truth inside of them, I’m just so happy about. Like, they can insult me all day long and make fun of my work, but I’m just so happy for them because something started moving.

Jonathan DeYoe: So sort of a related question. Do you use those words as shock value or do you actually mean them? Um, and tell us how they fit.

Hanna Bier: I have to say, sometimes I do adjust how I talk about myself. Like, if I sit next to somebody on an airplane, I might ease into it. I might say I work with people on money. And then they’re like, oh, are you an accountant? No. And so I just kind of see, who is it that I’m talking to? How much can they handle? It really depends on the person. Sometimes it is nice to shock somebody, but that’s just for my sense of joy and fulfillment. I do mean the words that I use. To me, it is clairvoyance to be able to see. I haven’t found a better word to be able to see energy. But also, after doing some meditation, like you said, pretty much everyone becomes more sensitive again, and they are able to perceive it. And then they realize, just like in physics class, that’s what Hannah’s talking about. And I remember when I first started my life coach training, I came across this term psychic, and I thought, well, that’s not me, because that’s, like, magical. And you have to wear calf tans all day. That’s not me. To this day, I don’t believe that I have a special gift. I also don’t believe that it’s anything that only I have. I just believe that my senses are very open. I don’t know, but I believe that just like some people have great eyesight or great hearing, I have great sensing with my body. I believe that if we pay attention and we meditate, that opens up in every person. So, yeah, I don’t believe it’s anything magical, really. It’s just the ability to sense subtle energy.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. So, magic aside, there’s still nuts and bolts stuff we have to do, right? You clear the mud off the car, then there’s action. So explain some of that to us.

Hanna Bier: Yeah. This is where I still hold people by the hand a little bit, but this is also where my work ends. There is a lot that I don’t do. My intention with my clients is to help clear the mud and is to help get them into a really confident, stable place where they feel confident looking at all of their money, where they have chosen a money making vehicle, whether that’s a career or business or several businesses that fits them. Um, so they have something to grow, something to start from. That’s a really good place to start. And my other hope is that we have shifted them from the old paradigm with money into the money bliss way of life, where they feel hopeful and excited and capable with money. And part of feeling capable with money is to. Able to find solutions that I cannot provide. My clients are, um, in all sorts of countries around the planet. I’m currently in Germany. A lot of the financial advice does not apply to me because it’s american financial advice. It just doesn’t apply in Germany. In the same sense, I can’t help somebody in Peru with their finances. That is just not something that I can do. But my work helps people lose the fear or the trepidation to begin to seek out resources and to trust that they can find the right resource, choose the right person to help them with, and to navigate money for the rest of their lives. So the question that you just asked, like, that’s kind of where I start to step off and other people begin to step in.

Jonathan DeYoe: It’s such an interesting thing because I gave a presentation at an entrepreneurial conference for black and brown business owners in Oakland, California. And at the end of the presentation, someone asked me a question. Jonathan, do you have anything that helps people overcome trauma so that they can benefit from what you say? So everything you just said just ties perfectly with what she. It’s. There’s stuff that holds us back. You have to get rid of that stuff. Once you get rid of that stuff, then you can move on to advice and tools and nuts and bolts. But if you don’t get rid of the stuff, you may end up with money, but you end up with money and happiness. Right. You can be very successful financially, but you can’t be successfully and happy unless you get rid of this stuff. It’s like, we all have to process this stuff. Wow. I’m on board now. I was questioning, and now I’m m kind of on board. So I want to read something I got from your website, and I want the audience to kind of just think of this as a whisper in your ear. And then I got a couple of questions from the website. It says, money touches every aspect of our life. It’s really important. So let’s stop pretending that it doesn’t, shouldn’t, or hasn’t. It’s okay to let money matter, I promise. So, in a way, you attract us with all this possibility, and then you whisper that it’s okay to talk about money. Tell us why it’s so important to admit and be okay with the fact that money matters.

Hanna Bier: Yeah. Money is so important because when we were little, our parents were the source of having our needs met. Our parents, ideally, would have given us shelter and food and love, and they would have played with us and helped us how the world works and allowed us to make little mistakes, and they would have absorbed the big repercussions and just let us kind of figure out, like, if I do this, that happens. Okay. Right. That would have been our parents. As we grow up, money, to a large extent, replaces the role of our parents in the sense that we now use money to provide a home. We now use money to buy food. We now use money to bring enjoyment into our lives in the form of a vacation or festival. We use money to clothe ourselves. It’s not our parents anymore who provide those things. So money matters hugely because this is how we provide our most basic necessities. This is also why money brings up all of these complicated feelings. Even those of us who’ve read all the financial books, we’ve done everything right, and we’ve got the great job, um, and we’ve got everything, like you said. But people can often still feel so scared. So my millionaire clients feel like it’s never enough. And so there was this statistic, I think the APA did, American psychologist association did this survey that said that 92% of Americans would say that money is their main stressor in life. Money brings up a lot of emotion. I hope this is correct. But money brings up a lot of emotion for all of us because it touches the deepest aspects of us. But then it’s also still such a taboo to really talk about it honestly. Yeah. So money is so important, right? Uh, every one of us feels it, and I still believe that there is not an honest enough conversation that brings the emotional and the actual nuts and bolts of money together, and that allows us to talk about how savings for many of us feel like safety or our income level feels like significance. These two things, like the emotions and the physical nuts and bolts, they need to be in conversation together, because money is life force energy on this planet. It’s also a means of, uh, expressing appreciation to one another. This is why I’m so passionate about having conversations around money and weaving those truths into those conversations.

Jonathan DeYoe: It’s kind of amazing to have this conversation. When you think about your clients, is there a demographic that you specifically work with? It sounds to me like you’d be the most attractive to younger women. And I’m wondering if you have older women or men that actually come to you for this conversations. And I’m asking because I have a lot of clients who are set. I mean, they have plenty. I tell them this every time we talk, and they are still terrified. And I’m wondering if this message resonates with an older generation.

Hanna Bier: Hardly resonates with all of us. I have clients in their. My oldest are in their. Used to have clients in their. Like you said, they are just as terrified as the rest of us. One of the things I teach in money bliss is to source our sense of safety from within versus without. And this is what most of us have been taught. Like, this is the big lie, that if only I can have this amount of money, if only I can have this, if only I can have that. But then the cryptocurrency banks collapse, and then a pandemic happens. And so we notice that we’ve been trying to source our safety from the outside world, when the only reasonable place to source it from is from within. And those are the emotional resources that we just haven’t developed, and many of us never develop them. Some of us try and seek these tools when we’re in our seventy s and eighty s, and even then, it’s still worthwhile work, because any moment I believe that you can get that you’re not in, like, a deep seated sense of panic around money is a very good moment to be in. So I would say it applies to all of us.

Jonathan DeYoe: Is there a subset, I think, on your website, you say you work mostly with women. Is that fair to say?

Hanna Bier: Mostly women, yes.

Jonathan DeYoe: And then somewhere I read you talked about, or heard you talked about the biggest lies or half truths that women come to believe about money or are taught about money. Can you kind of lay that out? Uh, what are some of those lies?

Hanna Bier: Yeah. One is that abundance is a destination. One is, when I first started my business, it was like six figures a year, and then you’re set. And then it’s multiple. Six figures, seven figures, eight figures. But that’s the fun thing. You’re never set. You’re never done, because money is a natural resource. And as such, it flows, flows in and out, just like the seasons, just like the tides. Money is always flowing, even when you’re in a job. Some months, you make more of a profit at the end of the month. Some months you don’t. Some months, inflation goes up. Some months, um, interest rates, right? Like most of my clients, when they first come to me, they would already be hyperventilating, even just me saying those things, because it would induce so much fear in them. Just the sense of flux with money. But we don’t freak out when winter comes around. We don’t freak out when it’s time for spring to happen, right? It’s the same with money. But one of the lies is that your money should always be increasing. You should always be making more money. And the more money you have, the safer you will feel. And that is just not the reality. And so a lot of it is the building of the inner resources to be able to withstand the movement of money and to be comfortable with it. My investments are going up and down. Income goes up and down. As an entrepreneur, right, we all know what that feels like. Clients come, clients go. My saving goes up, goes down a little bit, up again. Overall, we do want growth, just like we want a garden to grow, but you have to trim it back sometimes. And sometimes a tree falls over because it’s been infested with buds. That’s normal, too. And so we see it in nature so clearly. And then with money, we white knuckle, and we’re like, I just have to make it be like this one certain way, and then I’ll feel safe, and that will just never happen. And I remember when I first awoke to these lies, I was like, oh, my God, it’s everywhere. Everybody believes it. There’s not even an alternative. That’s what we’re being taught. Make more money. But for most of us, making more money is like filling more water into a bucket that has holes in it. That’s not the solution for many of us. And then the example that you brought, where you said many of your clients are set, like they have a lot of wealth, and it still doesn’t feel enough, right?

Jonathan DeYoe: So, um, just for the local audience here in the Bay area, and actually probably for the United States, the idea, know in your garden, there’s a big tree infested with bugs, that crashes to the ground. That’s Silicon Valley bank right now. And that caused this issue in the US, uh, most recently. So that tree was infested with bugs and it fell down, and there we are. I love the analogy. It’s great. So who tells us the lies? Like, where are these lies coming from?

Hanna Bier: I think it’s a lack of awareness of, uh, the fact that money is still connected to the natural world. Money is something that is man made. It is a structure that we’ve created. The origins of money can be traced back, and yet it is an expression of appreciation. It is a means of exchange, of value. And I do believe that money is a natural resource. It is something that we use to nourish and to support ourselves and each other. And so I think when that connection isn’t there, that’s when a lot of these lies creep in, and most of us don’t know any better. For the longest time in my life, I was perpetuating the same lies because I just didn’t know any better. I thought the solution was to just earn more, more and, and more and more is to just climb my way to the top at the expense of other people, if you have to. Because that’s what capitalism gives us permission to do, right? Or we’re trapped between these two, like capitalism, communism. But I think that’s why people like you and I, that’s why we want to join in the conversation, because we feel like we have things to add that hopefully create a more complete picture, rather than just these generalized ideas about money. So I don’t have any one specific person to blame. I think it’s all of us who are co creating this mess and hopefully fixing, uh, it.

Jonathan DeYoe: So is it fair to say it’s culture? And then perhaps. See, I always profess this idea that culturally we think money is the new God, right? And I think we all admit that. But then, because money is the new God, then it’s the chase of the money that becomes the thing we all have to do. And the chase of the money means media. Everyone that sells a financial product, they all have something to say, and they’re all trying to move us to act in a certain way. And if we don’t awaken, then the culture and media will push us to do the things that are in their benefit instead of in our benefit. So that awakening is critical for both our financial success and our happiness. Yes.

Hanna Bier: And the point that you’re making is that the two go hand in hand. We can’t have a conversation that is disjointed, where we pretend that money is one thing and mindfulness is the other. This is what we’ve been trying to do for all these years, and it’s just not working. So I love the point that you’re making. It needs to go hand in hand.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. Is there anything that makes this more difficult or uncomfortable for women, especially this day and age? Maybe.

Hanna Bier: That is hard for me to tell. I’ve only ever been a woman. This is why I work on. I love to work with women, because I understand what it’s like to be socialized as a woman. There are some specific messages that all of us inherit to this day. Even if we say, I don’t believe in it, even though we say, I’m not going to go down that path, ideas like, if I can get married to man, I’ll feel safer. Right. All those lifeboats that we’re trying to hold on to. And I’m a big feminist. I believe that it’s important for us to, as women, to claim our financial capability. I believe that it’s important to not shy away from money and shy away from. It is a form of agency. It is a form of power. It is a form of being able to make the right choice. I want to be in a relationship because I choose it, not because I am trapped because of money. And I don’t want to shy away from working on my relationship with money and facing the discomfort and instead just. Yeah, I think that’s something that I’m pondering right now, like, kind of how my generation was raised. Like, you can do everything and get a job and get an education. You can do. But then there is still sometimes this feeling, and many of us have, like, but of course, men would have an easier time advancing their careers because we have to stop and get pregnant and give birth to babies. It’s actually what I’m working on in my business. Behind the scenes. I was working on things for years before I even bring it into my work. But something that I’m really pondering and researching right now is the historical and cultural influence of the previous two feminist ways. On money, on all of the. Yeah, sometimes my clients come in and they’ll say, I have so many blocks, but then many of those blocks are cultural. Many of those blocks are not even. They’re just the socialization of women that we’ve inherited. So that’s something that I’m pondering and learning about right now. Can’t teach on it yet, though. I’m still, uh, full of questions?

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah, that’s great. So hopefully post your research, you come back on and we do this again on that topic. I think it’s a really important topic. I think it was great.

Hanna Bier: We’ll talk in ten years.

Jonathan DeYoe: You think it’ll be ten years? I love it. That’s how I write a book. It takes me seven years too, so I totally get it. So I think it’s an interesting question because I lost my train of thought. There’s a ton of noise out there. So what’s something really simple that listeners can do today that brings them more personal and financial success?

Hanna Bier: Source your safety from within versus without the capital structures that we live in. And the media want you to be dissatisfied because then they can sell you stuff that you don’t really want or need. Source your safety from within. When you feel secure in your own abilities to manage money, weather any storms that life will bring you, and there will be more storms, you’re not exempt from life like, all of us have to deal with the same ups and downs and movements, right? That’s just the truth of what it’s like. And if you can resource yourself, source your safety from within, then you won’t be so vulnerable to society always telling you, like, buy this thing, become that. Uh, and you’ll actually have the inner space to ponder and explore. What are my values? What do I really want? What do I stand for? What would make me feel really fulfilled to pass on to my children or to pass on to younger generations? But none of this can happen if you don’t begin to source your safety from within. It is crucial and essential.

Jonathan DeYoe: So whether you’re 18 and just starting out, go within. Or whether you’re 50 and you’re just driving headlong, you’ve never done it. Stop and go within. Source that safety from within. I love it. Is there anything out there in the soup? And I kind of already know what your answer is going to be, but I want to ask it anyways. Is there anything out there in the soup advice that we get that is just dumb and we should ignore so.

Hanna Bier: Much I’m going to try and pull up some.

Jonathan DeYoe: So much. That’s the best answer. So much we should ignore.

Hanna Bier: Jonathan, I could just rant for hours and days and weeks with you, but let me see. I think the elephant in the room for me is that we don’t take our family of origin into account. It’s all this stupid advice of like, just do this, just do that, just do blah, just do blank. If any of this does not involve your family of origin, at some point, it’s missing. Like all of us know, our biggest issues come from our families. Our families of origin are so important. So if you have been trying to follow advice for a long time and you’ve been banging your head into the wall and you’ve been trying to do it harder and more, whether that’s more meditation or more affirmations and more and more and more, and it feels like you’ve hit a wall, it’s time to go to your family of origin, because this is probably where you need to go. This is the thing that shocked me once I awoke to it, that hardly anybody does this, who really brings their family into these very important conversations, and that is the place to start.

Jonathan DeYoe: So I think, uh, Freud did a lot know, tell me about your family. That was, like, the core of everything, but I’ve never heard of family constellation therapy. Know, I started researching what you do, so there’s room for that grow. I mean, there’s room out there in the world for that to take a bigger place. So I just want to know, is there anything you’re working on right now? I mean, are you working on a book? Are you working on a course? Is there something you’re building?

Hanna Bier: Currently, I’m usually the type of person who keeps it completely under wraps, and then when it’s done, I go, tada. Because if I talk about my process, sometimes I procrastinate more than I usually do. So that’s more like trying to keep myself in check. If I talk about what I do, I sometimes feel a sense of accomplishment, and I celebrate myself too soon. Like, I get the positive reinforcement without actually having done the work to complete it. So I can tell you about something that I’m m doing in my personal life, in my business. Yes, there’s exciting things coming. Just stay tuned, because I always surprise people. I’m like Beyonce who just launches something and people go, oh, she did this. In my personal life, I’m learning to play the guitar. Yes, it hurts very much. Yes, it’s worth it. And, no, I can’t play a song just yet.

Jonathan DeYoe: So my son, when he started doing this when he was, like, six years old, we bought two guitars, one for him, one for me. At six years old, your brain is just absorbing stuff so much quicker than a 45 year old. I must have been 40 at the time. And so he, like, he launched and took off so well, now he’s, like, headed off to UCLA, uh, to study music, and he’s great. You should check him out. Eli dio he’s awesome. Anyway, that’s a quick aside, but I gave up. It took me three months and I was like, I can’t keep up with my son. Go ahead. So I never learned how. I’ll come back to it, though. It’s probably my own money stories or my own stories that I’m keeping me from doing it. Just before we wrap, what was the last thing you changed your mind about?

Hanna Bier: I was a vegan for eleven years and then started eating eggs and I feel better for it. I know in some communities this is like lighting an atomic bomb. It’s like a very controversial conversation, but I changed my mind on something as deeply seeded as veganism. Do without what you will.

Jonathan DeYoe: Yeah. So you’re in good company, though, because the person that runs my courses, my course manager did that also. She’s been a vegan for a long time, and I think it was about a year and a half ago she stopped and started eating because she met a german man who ate a lot of meat and so they have meat at home now, so she ate some anyway. Is there anything people don’t know about you or maybe you’ve told them they don’t remember that’s really important to you?

Hanna Bier: That they know that I don’t matter, uh, at all. Uh, that people. There is a feeling of truth in your own body that I’m trying to tune into to direct you back to yourself. Like, you’re the hero, you know, you’re everything. I’m just a guide. I’m just the person who’s, like, trying to direct you back to yourself, and I’m trying to encourage you to follow the glimmer of truth that is already trying to guide you. So I really don’t matter. That’s also a weird thing in the coaching industry where people are like, I’m so great and I did all these things and I’m like, I really don’t matter at all. Like, you’re the hero. I’m just here so honored and grateful that I get to be by my clients aside as they make these amazing transformations and as they just go out into the world and find home in themselves. But, yeah, uh, that’s just something to remember. Don’t idolize anyone. You’re the hero. You’re everything that you need.

Jonathan DeYoe: So I want to actually paraphrase that a little bit. So you don’t matter in our lives, but you matter in your life. You matter. I want to make sure you know that you matter. Even though you said you didn’t matter, you matter okay.

Hanna Bier: Thank you, Jonathan. Yes, we all completely have worth and we’re whole and complete beings. But I feel like in the coaching world, one of my pet peeves is when coaches kind of become these superstars and source their need for significance or their work, and it becomes like this show pony thing. And I always feel like it’s often quite distracting from what the clients really need. And so sometimes when my clients focus on me too much, I’m like, this is not tv. I’m not here to entertain. Just let’s keep directing you back to you because it’s so easy to listen to these podcasts and be like, jonathan is so great. He knows so much. I want to be like him. He’s so amazing. He made these choices. And so before we know it, we’re like, in Jonathan’s world. But it’s really important to take what resonates and to leave the rest from all of these conversations, there’s a feeling of truth inside of you. That is the real guidance that I believe a good coach taps into. And a good coach puts the well being of the client before their own needs that they’re trying to receive through their work. Also, like a little thing to think about if you’re in the process of hiring a coach, that’s something that I feel is very important for sure.

Jonathan DeYoe: So tell us how people can connect with you. Where do they find you?

Hanna Bier: Yeah, my website is hannahbeer.com hannabier.com. So Hannah is spelled without an h at the end. You’re welcome to, uh, check out my website, read my blog. You’re welcome to contact me. My email is hello@hannahbeer.com sometimes people like to reach out with personal family stories and just get my opinion. So if you want to email me, I answer all of my emails. I may not be able to help you through email, but I’m always here, always open, always excited to hear and connect. My instagram is Hannah Moneybliss. You’re welcome to message me there as well, and I hope you enjoyed this episode.

Jonathan DeYoe: Hannah, thanks very much for coming on. I’ll make sure everything’s in the show notes as you’ve written it out here, but I really appreciate your time.

Hanna Bier: Thank you for having me.

Jonathan DeYoe: You bet.