We’re here to discuss the first episode of Mayfair Witches, the new tv series from Anne Rice’s Immortal Universe, AMC and AMC+.

In this episode we discuss questionable CGI and good casting choices, creepy bosses and creepier uncles.

If you like Anne Rice and her vampires or witches enough to read this, then you like them enough to join our cult...I mean Discord: https://articulatecoven.com/discord

If Discord isn’t your thing, we also have a Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/articulatecoven/ or follow us on Twitter @articulatecoven

Join us for Dorian Discussion Club Premier Party January 9th at 5pm CST on the Dorian app: https://dorian.app.link/TKxxd3AVrwb

Until you hear from us again, watch the second episode of Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+ and join us again for our next episode.

The House is too Hot for Long-sleeve Nightgowns! - Ashley and Joel Discuss S1E01 of Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to

Joel: the Articulate Cove, and we're your hosts. I'm Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the Articulate Cove. Ashley, you know, my favorite thing about the Mayfair Witches series being on the air right now and I was talking about that right now.

Ashley: What is it?

Joel: My favorite thing of all is the fact that I do not live or die by other people's opinion of this show in the same way that I did in YouTube of IWTV. You know, whenever I read criticism of interview with the vampire, whether I agreed with it even a little bit or not, I

Ashley: took it very personally. Circles

Joel: and I immediately sort of jumped back in the show. I did. I took it very personally. Very, very personally. Like someone's talking about your mama. I there have been there's been some strong criticism of this show, especially for I would say, especially from our group. I think, generally, the the reviews, I think, at have been largely positive, but did not as overwhelmingly in love as the reviews for interview, but still largely positive. However, from our own group, I've seen several different voices that have said, man, this is way off track at differing levels of whether they're gonna be able to continue to enjoy it or not. But it seems like our little corner of the Internet at least is much less happy with this adaptation than the previous one. And thankfully, I really don't care. Actually, it turns out I've seen in the first episode now. I've listened to a lot of that feedback. And it doesn't affect me when way or the other. So so that's my overarching thoughts about this. How do you feel now that we bask in the glow of of the first episode's release?

Ashley: Okay. I've loved it. I was I was really skeptical of this one, and I don't know why I was a little nervous about it. I was just I don't know. I I I didn't feel as, like, as prepared for it, I guess. I don't and and maybe that it. I don't know. Hell, I really liked it. And I really like the changes they've made, the way they've adapted it, I think that we're gonna get this, like, kind of, flashback and flash forward kind of storytelling throughout this I feel like we're still gonna get our, you know, still gonna get our backstory of all of our very cool beloved witches. I really think that the way that the changes they've made and a lot of the things I've done is really clever. And I've there were a couple of things I found myself really grossed out and creeped out by, which I was super excited by, you know, and just my initially, my initial on this first watch, I gotta say, I'm way more into it than I thought I was gonna be.

Joel: I am not. I'm not into I'm not more into it than I thought I was going to be. I I will say, I didn't expect this one to grab me in the same way that interview does. I've never loved the mafia, which is in the same way that I loved the Vampire Chronicles. We just finished talking about this first book. And I told you, I told everybody, I hold these main characters Rowan and Michael in particular, I hold them at a remove for as characters. I I do not fall in love with them. I do not connect with them in the same way. And I got to thinking about it today. Is it just the Vampire Chronicles? No. It's not, in particular, the mummy series. Ramsay is the damned, which if I recall correctly, is also not written in first person. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong there. But I don't believe it is. I love I love all of those characters, honestly.

Ashley: No. I think you're right. I don't think it is. Yeah. I love the mummy.

Joel: And then if you go one step further serving of the bones. One of her --

Ashley: Standalone. -- one

Joel: of her single book, you know, adventures. I really, really loved that when I work I now have it read it since the very beginning, since I since it came out, but I loved it when it came out. I'm I'm looking forward to revisiting it. Anyway, It's not just the vampires that I love, but I don't connect with Rowan and Michael as much as I do later with Mona. I I've always liked Mona more in Lascher. When she really comes into her own, then I liked Rowan.

Ashley: Right. And

Joel: then later, Mona reappears in the VC, and I I enjoy her appearances there. Whereas Rowan in her appearances in crossover sort of felt a little weird to me. Anyway, I was I was okay with this just being a show. And I think it's gonna be a better than average show. Overall, the the feeling that I'm getting, the sense that I'm getting from folks that don't live and breathe the Mayfair's and Anise in general is that they might like this one more. The one comment that that Kelly really had And I mentioned this in our group, but, you know, my wife, she's not an An Rice reader. She doesn't know this world. She is a reader. She wanted I said this one's Right. She doesn't She she's not a reader. I meant she doesn't read these books. She knows how to read and she does read for fun. Anyway, She doesn't read these books though, and she doesn't, you know, have this deep abiding historical nostalgia or love for the Mayfair or for any of An Rice's characters. And to her, this series, at least in its pilot episode, feels as she put it more straightforward than interview did. It felt less insular or like a world that's, you know, you have to really unlock to be able to enjoy, which is kind of the way that she described interview. She she's thankfully got a translator and me sitting beside her anytime she

Ashley: gets -- Right. --

Joel: you know, confused or wants something expounded upon. But here's she didn't really need it. She was as a matter of fact leading our discussion when we were talking about the things that happened in the first episode because she felt like she got it all, understood they were driving at and and overall enjoyed it. Both of us had a few comments that were negative, but generally, she's into it. And I think think a lot

Ashley: of people like her are gonna be end of this, Ashley. Well, and I think that a lot of that has to do with the way that they've fleshed out the store and it's, you know, you're we're seeing most of this in a in our modern day. We're we're getting some flashbacks with Dior dress so far and and those are fantastic. But for the most part, we've got a story about a woman whose tough, smart, ambitious, afraid and alone. And and she's trying to figure out what and something fucked up is going on in her life, and she's trying to figure out what is going on, and what she is, and who she is. And I think that that's something that almost everyone can relate to, you know, that that journey of self every that so many of us go on and have to, you know, that all of us go on, figure out figuring out who we are at the core of ourselves, figuring out who we want to be And also, you know, when you have something that feels so aberrant happening to you to need answers. And I think that that's such a great way to set this set this her going home up so well. They explained why they didn't, you know, why she didn't have the Mayfair name, and it's all things that wouldn't matter to a a person just watching it. It makes sense. It's like, hey, you can't. You gotta give these things up to have this baby. You know, that make all makes sense. It doesn't feel like it feels like you're gonna learn the lore as you go along, not that you already have to be in on the secret if that makes sense.

Joel: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. That makes sense. And I think that's exactly what Kelly was getting at. It it is it is interesting. It occurred to me, Ashley, we never really set the table for who we are and what this is if somebody's joining us for the first time. Oh, yeah. We just ripped into it. We are the unofficial podcast for AndRise's immortal universe. And all the shows from AMC and AMC Plus, in particular, tonight, we're gonna be covering the Mayfair, which is episode one, season one, the witching

Ashley: episode. The premier of

Joel: this episode. And Ashley, that's right there is what I wanna start with as far as our discussion of this episode specifically. You you've got a a great take on Rowan that I wanna get back to.

Joel: But

Joel: right from the start, something struck me as a little off about this show In comparison to interview with the Vampire which came before, we've covered that previously in episodes if you haven't watched that show or haven't listened to our coverage. Please go back and check it out. There's a lot of good stuff there. But this title, I think, was one of the things that irked me. The first time I watched it, I didn't really understand why the second time I'm sitting there watching the creator's discussion at the end of the insider episode piece after the the episode is over with

Ashley: Love Thank

Joel: you AMC for doing those. HBO's been doing those for several years. I love them.

Joel: Me

Ashley: too. All

Joel: the streaming services did them simple. Doesn't have to be you know, three minutes long, that's plenty, you know, whatever. But give me a little something about this episode specific.

Ashley: Little insight.

Joel: Some of the creative team AMC continues to do that. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But on this one, it finally struck me why I didn't like it. The titles all of the titles of interview with the Vampire episode came from Anne's poetry directly. They come from her dialogue, from her lines within the original book. Not all of them are in the quote unquote right place or even from the right character, but many of them are mentioned directly in the episode as well as in the title. Sort of a cool way to tie things together. And every time you you read it, you get a little glimpse forward into what that episode is gonna be about if you're a book reader and, you know, it's a nice moment when it comes up in conversation from the characters themselves. Here, they're not doing that. They they call this episode, the witching hour and the I forget her name to the creator that was speaking at the end, says that they wanted to use that title because they wanted to, you know, call out from the beginning that they're really telling specifically the story of the first book here. And I took that to mean honestly, and at the end of this episode, I take it even more so to mean, they're really telling Rowan's story here. I don't think we're gonna get a whole lot of depth this season on the family at large. And I think that's one of the reasons why we have it, Courtland, for instance, as a living character here instead of someone in recent --

Ashley: Right. -- you know,

Joel: dead memory before the story itself in modern day. I think he's going to be our tie to a little bit of the historical. I think we are gonna continue to get maybe some more young dedra, but that'll be the extent. And it'll be season two before we go into the depths of the files of the Tallamaska, which I guess makes sense based on the way that they're setting this up. And again, this is all me reading into a lot of this one comment with the title of the witching hour. Here's my here's my problem though. Ashley, I guess that makes sense if that's what they're gonna do. But the witching hour is a title of one section of the book. Already, and it's a section that comes much much later effectively at the, you know, the the climax of the book. There's nothing in this episode that calls to mind that title or or says to me that this is the witching hour. In fact, you know, this is a a very spooky setting. It very much reminded me of early seasons of American horror story, you know, or something like that. I think they're very much going for a similar vibe. And hey, that's a big audience that's already out there and probably, you know, maybe didn't watch interview with the vampire. So kudos to all of that, but it just it struck me as wrong, and I think it boils down to this. This is the difference. I think for interviewed of the Empire, they found they found people creatives at, you know, in the writing room, the directors, the actors, etcetera, that are in love with the source material. And I think here, they found people who are very competent television creatives. And there's I don't know that that this one might not work better as far as like a success on TV than giving it to people who are in love with the source material I think

Joel: there's

Ashley: something to be said for the fact that this source material is not as poetic as interview as a vampire. We don't I mean, it's not it's not nearly the language is not remotely the same to me at all. I think it's a lot harder to like, drum up some, you know, beautiful romance and some of and some of the language in this in in this particular book. It's just not it's not at as as it's not as flowery. It's not as poetic. It's not as, you know, imagery evoking. It's kind of more meant to evoke emotion instead of, you know, this, like, this this this beautiful lush imagery, just a very different so very different books to me, very different styles of writing within them as well. And I think it could be just as simple as, like, this is, you know, we're we're calling at the witching hour because that's the name of the first book and this is where we're starting Boom, chapter one, off we go. You know what I mean? I don't I I think that it's a lot easier to to write in a lot of that poetry when it comes to the vampire chronicles. And maybe that's again, maybe that has so much to do with our preference for it, you know. But I will say, I do love these books a lot. I do enjoy them, and I think I'm probably a little feel a little more connected them than you do. And maybe that's more like just me connecting a little bit more with some of the characters, you know. But Yeah. I think that, you know, it's just not it's just not the same. It's just not as flowery and, you know, I don't I don't smell I don't smell things I smell the mustiness of that house and I smell the dust. I don't smell like the night blooming jasmine. You know what I mean? It's just not is easy to fall in love with the words.

Joel: That's very fair. Yeah. No. That is that is a hundred percent fair. You were talking before I so rudely interrupted and reset the table on this episode. But

Ashley: Oh, no. We got it. About

Joel: our protagonist here, Rowan. Yeah. You're right. I mean, we gotta we gotta start from the beginning, so to speak. But I wanna get back to Rowan here and hear your take on Alexandria Deario. We we talked a lot about her in the lead up to this in our discussions on Dorian and and in our discussion of the witching hour novel itself. But what did you think in this first episode? How how has Alexander said the table for you for Rowan.

Ashley: She feels tougher than I expected her to. Now, I expect that from Rowan. But I wasn't sure. To me, Alexandria Gidario has this very kind of delicate sort of fragile quality to her. And it was really cool to see her kind of push past that and change my mind about her. Her voice is perfect. Her voice is so great. That's something that's really very pointed out in the book very specifically Rowan's voice. She's got like a whiskey voice. It's a lower lower kind of purring sort of voice. And I love that that she she sounds so good. I was I was She I'm interested to see how how how it goes on, but to see her kinda kinda flex her bad ass when she went off on that doctor. You know, both times, she went off on the doctors. It just it was I was nice to see that side of that character that I was afraid wasn't gonna be there a hundred percent. And then also, Rowan likes to fuck. Like Rowan wants to fuck, and I'm glad they we got a taste of that in there too. Like, there's they're showing her as this as a well rounded character because she and she truly is as far as the way she's written, she's got a lot of complexity to her. And and I think that it's really great that we're, like, right off the bat, episode one, you're showing me a lot of different facets of her.

Joel: Yes. Absolutely. And you know what? I agree with you on her toughness. I do think that that in particular, I love the scene where she is washing up after the surgery with the I don't know what the other woman's position is, but the, you know, the the woman attending that was with her and she runs into the room and is immediately, like, god. That guy's such a menace. Thank god you were there. And Rowan's like, hey, lower your voice. This is our jobs. And then even as they're having a real discussion about it, kind of on a lowered tone, Rowan's like, yeah, but listen, I was there. It worked out fine. And if I would have just outright called him on it, it would have been way worse for everybody. And she's like, yeah, maybe for but not for you, you know, etcetera, etcetera. And and I love the fact that she is navigate in that one scene. I think that was one of the best scenes in the whole episode in my opinion as far as Rowan's character because it did a great job of short standing the way that she's been able to navigate the politics of a male dominated industry where she's clearly

Ashley: -- Absolutely. -- very high at

Joel: a very young age. Which by the way I

Joel: will

Joel: say. Absolutely. Alexandria does a great job of displaying Rowan's youth in a way that the novel does not. Rowan is very young, much younger than Michael. And yet in the novel, they always feel like contemporaries, whereas

Ashley: They really do. That's really true. Appropriate

Joel: for Rowan's age.

Ashley: Yeah. She does. I totally agree with that. I love the relationship with Ellie with her mother. It was lovely to see them being so close. They ditched the stepfather that she killed, which was, you know, not a bad loss. You can kinda move the story along that way. I think they did a really good job of of getting this story off to the races. You know what I mean? Like, we're not fucking around. Here we go. And I think it's gonna be interesting to see how the next couple of episodes go as far as how long we're gonna let Deirdre live. You know, like, it's it's gonna be very interesting to see how the next few episodes go.

Joel: So I I won't mention it here. We'll mention it at the end of the episode when we're talking about some spec inflation, but there's

Ashley: Oh, that was the total spoiler speculation too. Sorry.

Joel: No. No. No. Not at all. A couple there there have been a couple of a post on our Facebook group though that mentioned some I IMDB listings for characters appearances that that will sort of give you a hand at how long this might So we'll talk about some of that at the end of the episode, speculation on how this one fold. I'll tell you, I'm I'm pleased because I genuinely thought Rowan would be in New Orleans by the end of episode one based on the trailer, based on the way that I thought this was gonna play out, also based on the fact that I assumed it was a six or seven episode first season, like interview with the vampire. I think it's actually a full eight episodes for this. So I think they're gonna have a little bit more time to breathe than I thought they were going to. The other thing that you have to realize is we don't really know anything about Ciprian yet. So they haven't had to develop at all the character of, you know, Michael, quote unquote, or Aaron from the novels that Ciprian Grieve is replacing. So you had a full hour for Rowan's growth basically altogether.

Ashley: Right. Let me

Joel: insert here something that I didn't think about in watch watching it at all. But I realized in retrospect, when I talked to Kelly, she thought that this was happening. And several of our our listeners said so in either our discord group or our Facebook, which by the way, we've got a great discord community and a great Facebook group depending upon which one you'd prefer or maybe join both if you're just up for it. Those links were in the show notes, check them out. But in one of those places, someone brought up the the idea that the and first they're not a mayfair reader. They had not read these books even though they're a an rights fan. So they went into this thinking until very late in the episode actually. That what we were seeing was the story of Rowan as both a young woman and an old woman. They thought the character of Deidre on the porch in the catatonic state. It was Rowan. It's really Rowan as an old

Ashley: one. Oh.

Joel: Yes. And in retrospect, watching it the second time, knowing that Kelly read it that way too, I watched it with that eye, and I gotta tell you, I think they vary specifically. And I didn't realize this at the time because I knew when that scene when the doctor comes to the porch, to see Deidra. I know that's the present. And then I knew that we were looking at Deidra's because I've I've read the novels. Right? And then I know we're looking at Deidra's youth there. And so I know, you know, okay. Well, we've gotta go back at least twenty some odd years. So this is what the seventies, maybe. They're the eighties. And when she's that young, And I guess, in retrospect, let's see. Rowan's younger than I am. So it would actually be more like the nineties or the or the early two

Ashley: thousand season. Right. This

Joel: is real modern day. Boy, that's that's head screwing to think about the fact that Rowan's probably, like, twenty years younger than you and I are. Actually, yeah.

Ashley: A hundred percent. Absolutely. Quite twenty but close. Not quite twenty. Anyway, because

Joel: she did

Ashley: go she did go to med school.

Joel: Right. So, yeah, realistically, I guess, guess, Rowan's probably got to be twenty nine or thirty at this point based on, like, the the level of med school and then she's already full she's a she's a full doctor at this point. She's a surgeon. So Anyway, I'm slightly off track. That concept came with timelines and sort of setting up people's expectation and and being like, oh, we're telling one story, but no, we're telling two. And it's, you know, we're telling the story from both ends to meet the middle kind of thing. I hadn't read it that way at the first since I know this novel so well and we just talked about it. But I do think that's the way it's gonna play for mainstream audiences, which to me, I immediately go oh, are are they maybe gonna continue to play with timelines in this way so that we see, like, mirrors of moments for instance, I'll skip ahead slightly. The final scene or the basically the final the the climax of this episode, which is is Rowan's birth. We see in the past with Deidre and we see Ellie's death in the present day with Rowan. And the the mirror of Ellie's death and Rowan's birth is a beautiful moment. And immediately flash forward to some moments in the book. I won't spoil and mention here, but there are a couple of

Ashley: moments at

Joel: least I can think of that you could see new scenes, extra scenes that would mirror that would do that same thing and mirror either a birth and a death or maybe a wedding and a death or something, you know. So Anyway, I I got

Ashley: Yeah. Wedding and funeral.

Joel: And

Ashley: Yeah. Absolutely.

Joel: I think yeah. Those Converging stores converging timeline kind of ideas is first of all, that's a trope that I think, you know, quote unquote, normal audiences understand even from something like lost. Where eventually

Joel: that

Joel: had, like, a sci fi explanation that this show won't have. But the idea of that we're gonna tell stories, or this is us, you know, which tells like a modern storyline with the kids and then the storyline of mom and dad in the seventies or whatever or eighties, you're raising them.

Ashley: Right. Absolutely. I mean, we're all used to that kind of that kind of structure within within a television show for sure. I mean, that's I mean, it's very common, and I think it's a great way to kinda delve into such a, you know, such a giant giant source material. I mean, this book is fucking huge. It's like almost a thousand pages long. So I think they're being very judicious with what they're cutting and snipping and and and just getting to the meat of the story so far has been really great. And I'm with everybody that's like, I feel your concerns about, you know, losing some really great characters, but already I'm I feel like better about it than I did, you know. And I'm, you know, I'm very very I'm a very positive member of any fandom. I'm like, I even liked the prequels and Star Wars. So, you know, maybe not the best judge of everything, but I am I'm looking forward to seeing, like, how how how much of this we get kind of part of it for me too is like how much of the story do we get? And how much of it are they gonna hold off and maybe we don't get that that part of the history until season two. And maybe it gets delved out in little bits and pieces of the history of the Mayfair, which is over the entire course of the series as as opposed to, like, this is part of how we're gonna introduce this first in this first book. Because the action of the first book is Rowan. It is Rowan's experience. It's Rowan finding out who she is. Finding out her family, finding out her, like, her place in the world, and then it's her moving the ball forward. From then on, it's her, like, she went needed to start the hospital. She wants to do all these great things. She wants to use her powers to save lives. You know?

Joel: Yes, absolutely. And and she and she will do all of those things at least or or would if not for a certain floaty invisible man sometimes that that has his own way. Let's let's talk for a That invisible devil penis. Listen. Talk for a let's talk for a moment about that invisible devil penis. Yes. My wife was unimpressed with Jack Houston. I kind of wondered if she would be swept off his feet. She was not familiar with the actor Jack Houston playing Lasher here. I know him from Boardwalk Empire. And I all day, I've been trying to think of the name. I don't know why I haven't Googled it yet. I forget his character's name, but he was a good friend of the the sort of the main character in season one. Tommy, they had been to war together. He's got a bad injuries. You know, half of his face is missing, and he's got a a mask, a prosthetic, you know, portion of his face that that covers this up and he wears it with like glasses that that hold it onto his face, his character has the most satisfying arc of the higher show, and it's a great show from top to bottom. I'm pretty sure I've praised him already on this on this podcast when his casting was announced. But I was ready to love his character before this this show premiered. I wondered if Kelly would fall in love with him like I was sure I was going to. She came away very unimpressed. Doesn't like his haircut. Doesn't really like his hair.

Ashley: I'm a little man.

Joel: And she's like, what?

Ashley: I'm a little man myself.

Joel: If he's if he's like, this super sexy ghost that's haunted this family for a thousand years or whatever, like, you that's the you couldn't find a better looking dude. And she likes,

Ashley: you know Oh, why does the suit jacket not fit? I mean, like, why does this costume not fit? That's not

Joel: last year's fault. That's cost of me.

Ashley: No. But that's, like, seriously. Like, that's part of part of it because I'm with her. I was kinda like, he didn't really have me until he got scary, you know? Until it was that scene with Young Deidre, and he was very scary. Like, that that was when I was like, okay, maybe this is why they cast him. So I'm not giving up on him as being grand yet, but I'm not sold. I'm not sold at all. I don't know who else I would have cast though. I

Joel: I agree with you that that's a great scene from him. Yeah. I mean, well, yeah, who you it's it's almost like and we talked about this with LaSotte before we got Sam Reed. It's like, who do you cast? We don't know. We don't know the person. Honestly. We we want somebody who can fill the role and casting directors generally know better than we do. And God knows the casting director and director in this case, have spent much more time with with Jack and lots of other options than you and I have. I'm sure they know what they're doing. And Jack's a very fine actor. I'm sure that this is gonna come off fine in the end. Here's the one that I had in in the first episode. I did enjoy his performance generally. I love his vocal delivery. And the way that they make him appear and disappear and come around the room and he's sort of ever present I think all of that is very good. Here's what I

Ashley: I do like that. I just

Joel: think it's totally unnecessary. So it wasn't executed well and it wasn't necessary, and the combination of that really bumps me out. That same scene where he's sort of, you know and it's interesting. It's you know, there's the scene in Job where God, Job is is sort of appealing to God towards the end, and God is questioning him. It's one of the greatest lines in the whole bible. It's one of my favorites. He says, where were you and I laid the foundations of the earth? And I anytime I I think about, like, Grandios, you know, egotistical human beings. I think of that line Where are you and I lay the foundations of the earth? I think it's just one of those humbling moments. Right? Yeah. But but here, Lascher has that moment sort of where he swells his grandiosti, you know, what's the line from Aladdin, you know, great cosmic power in any middle living space. That's sort of Lascher's still here. He swells himself up and he's sort of, like, puffing himself up for Deidra. But they go and show it in this, like, weird morphing transformational thing where he's I'm

Ashley: a celebrity.

Joel: No person. You know? I thought it was a celebrity. Scared. I understand. It was a little gross. I get especially the three headed version at the end. I like, that's I I guess maybe a little bit, yeah, body horror. We talked about body horror last week in the the episode about the novel? And are we gonna get some of that? I definitely think we are, by the way, based on this first episode. I just didn't love those effects. I thought they were a little cheap. And in particular, It was one of the moments that really showed in my guesstimation. I haven't looked up the hard numbers. I bet they spent less money on this show than they did interview with the vampire. And that's one of the places where I felt like it showed.

Ashley: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I think that I think that last year is a is tricky character. He's like so I love the stand by Steven King is probably it's my it's my favorite book. It is the the the the villain in that book, flag, has been horror probably miscast every time anyone's done anything to do with this character. And I don't understand why they can't get right. And I've seen people get cast in it that I thought would kill it and then proceeded to be not grant. So I think that it's tricky. These kind of these kind of supernatural characters that are supposed to be in in one way terribly horrifyingly frightening, and in another way, completely attractive and seductive. It's just a tricky, tricky casting call. You know, it is. It's it's gonna that's why I'm not giving up on him yet. I'm gonna give him a chance because I do like his voice. I do like, but I really I hope his suit. I just I'm real mad about that costume. I'm real mad about takes takes me right out of it. Feel like those buttons are just clinging to life and that is not a large man. Give him a half inch in the back of that for Christ's sake.

Joel: Maybe in maybe in AMC's cost cutting maneuvers. What they'll do is they'll combine the costume They

Ashley: got rid of their tailor.

Joel: Of the witching hour and interview with the vampires. So the interview with the vampire folks would just get to make the costumes for everybody since these worlds

Ashley: And he's wearing a tiny suit.

Joel: Okay. So yeah. Yeah. He's wearing it. Well, no. That's what I'm saying. Maybe they'll give him a real suit that fits. I mean, all the Sam Reed's fits were excellent. Right? We talked about the fashion there. Surely, somebody can just send some notes over. We can get Houston sized up properly.

Ashley: Oh my god. Well, no. That's what I'm confused about. Okay. Also, I have to bitch about this. What's with the fucking long sleeved nightgowns in New Orleans? It is hot. It's so hot. It's so hot. Like, the cost that's another thing that I was a little like, Jesus. Jesus switches. Like, my god, can we have a a tank top in here at all. No long sleeves. Bless. Poor Deidre.

Joel: Man, that house that house feels smoldering if nothing --

Ashley: Right. -- hate it. You I love how sweaty the doctor was.

Joel: Like, boy, it's hot in that house. Yes.

Ashley: Yeah. You could feel like the heat waves on those.

Joel: He looks like the guy that comes out of the house enforced gump and he's like white If I got after a guess Your mama

Joel: showed

Joel: us care about your education. Care about your okay. So

Ashley: Yes. He's literally like, I loved it. That was one of those touches that I was like, oh, hell, yeah. It's hot in that house. And they're making sure we know it. It's uncomfortable there. It is not a warm happy home. It is a stifling place of Hellish, miss

Joel: Jeff. I am really, really hopeful that we are going to get a scene wear Carlotta either as a young woman or as an old woman. I don't care. Either one will work fine. Maybe

Ashley: both of them.

Joel: Give us both. I wanna see her I wanna see her attempt to burn the house down. You know, like either a lasher, stopper.

Ashley: Right. Oh, me too. Yes. I'm Yes.

Joel: This Carlotta has absolutely tried to burn that house down before.

Ashley: This actress is such a badass. I love her so much. She's always fantastic. And whatever she's in, she's such a great character her. And I've heard there were a couple people in our Facebook group that were like, I'm not sure she's mean enough. Oh, I guarantee you. This bitch is gonna be mean enough. I could feel it just simmering in her?

Joel: Yeah. We just haven't. So we honestly, we didn't get we only got, you know, a couple of moments with her. With dragging Didra out of the car, you know, and scolding her on the way up to the room before the party scene at Cortland's. And then

Ashley: at the

Joel: end when she's given the baby away, that's that's about it.

Ashley: Yeah. And I'm telling So that's

Joel: where

Joel: I wanted to go next. I wanted to talk about Harry Hamlin. I wanted to talk about Harry Hamlin here for a minute. So -- What a creep? -- you mentioned earlier the the oh, boy. Boy. What a creep. What a a tremendous creep. Tremendous creep.

Ashley: I've I'm so glad he's such a creep. Like, first of all, they've done this very well.

Joel: No. They did. They did. They absolutely did. We mentioned in last week's episode about the novel, the lack of Julian's appearance in any of the IMDB listings or casting announcements and and everybody kinda panic him panicking about that end that they've written him out. I don't think that they've written him out. I get a sense that Harry may not be around for, like, the long haul of this series. And the idea is that they were gonna go really over the top with Cortland in the modern day And because of that, Julian would feel like an echo or Cortland would feel like a bad echo. And now you get to do that across seasons. Right? You get to have Julian right, perhaps, in the second season, and it won't be in Cortland Shadow. It'll feel like, oh, this was where Cortland got it from.

Joel: Right.

Ashley: Right. It's like every generation it gets well, not only that's not accurate. It's not accurate at all, but it's like what it's something interesting about this is that It's courtland. It seems like court courtland knows what Lascher wants in a way. You know what I mean? Like, he's like luring Dear Dragon to, you know, deliver a child. For last year. So I'm wondering if, like, he's gonna we're gonna see some some of that that Julian had that familiarity with last year, Julian, was the only I think the only male in the family that saw that saw last year and that was considered a witch along with this along with the all the the lady witches. So I don't know. I think it's gonna be I'm I'm I'm interested to see how much of how much how far they're willing to go with how awful Portland is. Because I also think Portland's, like, worse than Julie, and I feel like that just from reading it, but I also just think, inevitably, Julian is a little bit more likable of a character because he's more fun than Cortlandt. And he's, you know I don't know, but they're all terrible.

Joel: You're okay. Both of those things are a hundred percent true. They are terrible. First and that goes for literally all of the Mayfair's. But then also but then also Julian is in the book written to be more sympathetic and likable than courtland. I think it basically comes down to this. We see inside Julian both in the witching hour and and, again, even in more depth, you see some more stuff in the lasher novel. You kinda see inside Julian, you get a glimpse through his diaries and through, you know, his contemporaries, their reports through the Tallamaskafiles, you get a

Ashley: sense of

Joel: what he was like in his day to day life and, like, you know, the convivial parts of it, not just his, you know, dark schemes.

Ashley: Deep poverty. Yeah. Deep poverty.

Joel: Right. But, Cortland, in the novels at least, we don't really see Cortland's in our life. We only see the sort of depraved events that he was connected to, and I don't

Ashley: wanna follow

Joel: that exactly for readers. But, yeah, you see

Ashley: Well, and also for the show. I mean, that could be coming up.

Joel: Here in this well, let's talk about it. Because

Ashley: Well, it already did. It came up. Well, it looks like it's in the

Joel: show. I do see. Yeah. So they bring so he Cortland clearly has brought her on purpose. Like, he expected her to come he's baited her with these, you know, he brings in the handsome mitt, which by the way, I assume that those men were for Cortland at first, and then no, they're bait for his niece. Okay.

Joel: Great.

Ashley: Well, isn't it does it Lasher tell basically send her? Loose.

Joel: Yes. Yes. No Lasher absolutely says. What's your mother?

Ashley: Because Lasher basically he sends her to Cortland. Right. So he sends her to Cortland knowing full well what's about to happen. Yeah.

Joel: What does your mother would do on a night like this is put on a fancy dress and go on down to Cortland's house. There's always a party there. You'll

Ashley: get fucked by your

Joel: uncle.

Joel: Yeah. You're right. Okay. So that's the thing. In the novels, it has never explicitly said it's heavily hinted and implied and a couple of characters guessed at it. That Cortland is actually the father, the biological father of Rowan.

Ashley: Yes.

Joel: Even though he's in the book, he is also Deidre's biological father. Okay. Yeah. So that is not clear in this episode. Did you read like, not yet implied this? No. Nobody's behind that mask. But

Ashley: I watched it twice.

Joel: I watched it close. There's no hint that that's hairy.

Joel: No.

Ashley: You're very right. You're very, very right. You were one hundred percent correct. I at first, I was like, did he did he drug her obviously, he drug to her when he gave her the the fancy family wine And and that makes me feel like I mean, who else who else would it be? He set he set this whole thing up. And last year, can't do it yet. Lacer can't be in a body like that yet. Exactly. Not like that. Exactly. You know, so it it had to have been Portland. But, I mean, I also think that that was a really that's a because I'm pretty sure I feel like there was a very strong implication that he had raped her in the book at some point. But I could have made that up in my head as being like what obviously in my brain happened to do your

Joel: job. I think I think it's I think it's hinted at much like this that, like, there's a party and she gets drugged and she's not sure what happened exactly, but there was somebody in a mask. I think it's literally that. But then when Michael and Aaron are talking about it, Aaron says, of course, we believe that Courtland is not only the father of x and y and z, you know. But

Ashley: Right. Right. Right.

Joel: And and that's but it's never I don't think it's I don't think we see it play out for, like, for sure in the novels anywhere. Anyway, that scene, I think it's interesting that they kept the ambiguity. It also lets them play a little fast and loose with the whole incest of it all. At least for now, leave that up to a mystery potentially.

Ashley: Exactly. You don't have to, like, look at in the eye. You don't have to look the incest in the face.

Joel: Yeah. Also, Harry Hamlin didn't have to climb on top of that poor little actress either, so that's

Joel: good.

Ashley: Please and thank you. That's a uncomfortable age difference.

Joel: Especially this Harry Hamlet God, he's so sweaty. Again, his house was so hot too. Carlotta's I get because, like, she doesn't believe in air conditioning. I'm sure and she's, you know,

Ashley: trying to

Joel: let the house burn down. And in the novels, that's even

Ashley: a thing that she

Joel: would never allow them to install AC and and, you know, proper ventilation. They have to modernize the whole house when they move in. But, like, what's Cortland's excuse use. Like, he should have the finest I see. He

Ashley: lives in the dead suburbs. Are you fucking kidding me? Why is this how steamy? Oh, he just likes to be sweaty, that's fucking gross. Oh, I'm glad I'm glad he felt as creepy as he did though. And

Joel: and listen, I thought the snake was too much.

Ashley: The snake was a lot. The snake was a lot. So

Joel: from based on the trailers, I thought that this was gonna be either, like, a scene where somebody is being induced by Lascher and, you know, he appears to them in the form of a snake at one moment or something, or it was gonna be, like, drug induced you know, nonsense, but I think it's just two really fucking rich

Ashley: people laying their cuddle in a snake. Yeah. It is. I really think it is. It's just fucking weirdos. Fucking weird rich people with too much time and money on their hands that now have a pet snake. Jesus.

Joel: I wanna I wanna point out one line earlier. I missed this when we were just talking about Rowan. I had it written here. She quotes to her tech in that surgery scene that I mentioned that I like so much. She turns as she's walking out of the room. They're talking about the best approach for this shitty doctor that they have to deal with. And she says, just remember, the slow blade penetrates the shield and the tech doesn't get it, and she says, what does that mean? And Rowan goes, I have something, you know, boyfriend, you know, this guy told me at a bar one time or something like that. And my wife was like, what does that come from? I immediately got it and got all excited. Rowan fucked a dude that likes dune one time. That's that's from dune.

Ashley: Oh my god. That's hilarious. I from dune. Excellent. Excellent. Well, here's the thing that's so great about that scene. And it's that every woman that I know that has been in any sort of position where they're jockeying for for power or or or in any sort of management capacity, there's so many times you work with men that in order to get them to agree to anything you have to convince them that what you wanted to do was their idea in the fucking first place. And this shows that so well. I really appreciate how and also how fucking creepy the second the the stem cell research doctor was. Like, that those are two dudes that women have to fucking deal with all the time. That asshole that you have to convince it's it's his idea and the dickhead that wants to try to fuck you or pulls this dick out to pee in front of you. Who does that? So many men.

Joel: Let let's talk about the guy who builds an open wall urinal in the middle of his office. Like, what the fuck homie? What the fuck? What the

Ashley: sad alpha male do you think you're doing? What a piece of trash, man. Yuck. That as an HR nightmare. His poor lawyers.

Joel: I also I would bet money that that guy can't spell Rodan, by the way. He was like, there's a Rodan. I got got a good doing it in an open auction. I'm like, yeah, I bet you can't I bet you can't fucking spell right in. Quickly, because we've we've we've we've talked long enough about this. Let's call it a masterpiece of it of a first episode. I do want to quickly cover though. They come up a couple of times to during the episode. I don't think did we actually get a name drop of the organization here? Did we hear the

Ashley: words? Yeah.

Joel: Or was it just

Ashley: We did not.

Joel: Just the agent see sort

Ashley: of New Orleans office.

Joel: We know that they're yes. We know that they're gonna call them the Tallamaska because the the promotion has used it and, you know, there's the number there. They've said, the New Orleans office of the Tallamaska, etcetera, etcetera. The cards have it on it that we've seen previously. But this card in the show didn't. It was just a a t, I think. A logo. But okay. I'm fine with them building the Tallamask up to be a little bit more Spy Agency E than they are in the novel because very frankly there are a bunch of old librarians in the novel in the novels, I should say. And that's not super exciting to see on, you know, TV. I get that. But it's weird to me that they they make a big production of this, like, huge office building and she goes and cranks the wall on the files, etcetera, etcetera. But then it's that same clerk that comes later in person to grab Ciprian Grieve wherever he is and tell him that Lascher's on the move. So I'm like, there's just the one the one old half blind, half lame clerk, hobblend down the hallways of this giant building. Like, that's a little weird. So and then the lady, what do we do? Jack. Yeah. Right. Like, what is going on there? I mean, good on you, but I don't anyway, that's that was interesting casting. And then secondly, this is the big thing. How the fuck do they know lashers on the move? Like immediately, theoretically. Like like they take the necklace off a daedra, the doctor takes the necklace off puts it down and Puts it in her pocket. Goes to see Rowan. Yeah. It puts it in her in her pocket and then last year goes to see Rowan. And immediately, she comes to see Ciprian and says Lashers on the move. In what manner is the Tallamasko checking Lashers She could she could be psychic. Well, you'll But even if she is, like

Ashley: Like, it's the telemasks.

Joel: That's not the way that's not the way he works in the book. That's not the way that's the way any of this works in the book.

Ashley: Look, I'm gonna give them a cheat on this. This is your cheat code. Old lady with the lazy eye can tell what last year's up to.

Joel: She's like, she's like cerebral for this for the telemasca, I guess, all by her lonesome?

Ashley: Yeah. Or like a or like the or like the the the the lady in poltergeist that clears the house. Magic. Oh,

Joel: yeah. Yeah. That's it. That's it. Anyway, I'm I'm willing to roll out the punches with it. I'm excited. I just

Ashley: The unexpected heroes, the unexpected psychic heroes.

Joel: You know, this organization is very important to our series as well. I say our series like we don't like this one. We're going to love this one. We're going to watch this one. We're gonna watch all the series they bring us. But Yo, I'm excited about this movie. Fires are gonna be directly impacted by the Tallamaska. So that is the

Ashley: that

Joel: is the biggest aspect of this series that I'm still on pins and needles about how they're gonna continue to unfold it. I will say the one thing that we I haven't really thought about, Ciprian Grieve no matter what his history with the Tallamasca, you know, unlike Michael who had just been introduced when we get to know him in the books. SIPRIAN clearly is already a member at least, but he might not he he's clearly much younger than Aaron Leitner. He's definitely not been with them as long. He may not know the history of the Mayfair witches. He may not know the stories of the origin. And so that may all be revealed to us as it's revealed to the characters directly. And so that's kind of exciting to me, I think. The

Joel: evolution

Ashley: of the series

Joel: as they get past the introduction of Rowan and and SIPRIAN, and we sort of get them all stewing together in New Orleans. I don't know. I'm sort of excited for where this one might go. It was a rocky start, and I don't think it's gonna be my favorite TV show of twenty twenty three, like interview was probably of twenty twenty two. But still, I'm excited for how this one started. What do you think overall?

Ashley: Oh, I I'm jazzed. I'm really, really excited. I I I was really impressed with the adaptation. I've gotta be really honest Like, that's the thing that that has hooked me because I was just I know what a beast this book is and and to figure out how to nip and tuck and and and get it into a forum that could be delivered in an episodic kind of way. I was really, really interested to see how they were going to do it because I don't think it's as clearly on the table as interview was, like the approach to it. So I think that after seeing how they've started and seeing Alexander Didario's performance. I am pretty excited to see how it goes, you know, to see to see how these characters meet and how they interact. Like, when I'm excited for her to get to New Orleans. I'm excited to see how she gets to New Orleans because we don't have the the link with Michael, which is one of the things that drove her there. She was like, oh, I've met you and you're from there at all feels very meant to be kind of a thing. So I'm very interested to see, you know, how she finds out about herself and how she, you know, makes that move south.

Joel: I think that segues us perfectly into the speculation arena, which I wanna dive into now. So if you are not a book reader, and you don't want to hear any potential spoilers for where this might could go based on our knowledge of the novels, then now's the time to dip out. We appreciate you join our Facebook group. Join our discord community if you'd like to, and make sure you follow the show and your favorite podcast app so that you can get every episode as we drop them. We'll try to drop them by Sunday evening when the episode drops on AMC proper. Alright. Let's dive into some speculation now, Ashley.

Ashley: You right there at that

Joel: very point. How is she gonna get to New Orleans? Think we know at the end of this episode how she's gonna get to New Orleans. Deja's not dying. She's coming out of her coma. No. I think Deja's gonna bring her back New Orleans.

Ashley: Okay. That'll be very interesting. Yeah. And his doctor the doctor's thrown a huge wrench in everything, and he clearly feels like the doctor that Aaron has the conversation with. In the book, in the very very beginning, like, the very first thing that happens in the book. He feels like that doctor to me, like, immediately. I was opening scene. Oh, I saw a ghost in New Orleans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel: It's absolutely that opening scene except this doctor is going to at least theoretically based on the end of this continued. Now, I mentioned earlier the IMDB listings, the actress that is playing Deidre, whose name is case me suddenly, She is listed in the IMDB listings for four total episodes. Well, she's listed for three, but the pilot is not among them. So she was actually uncredited in this one apparently. So that would lead me to believe. And also, I had forgotten this, but her that that character appears in one of the trailers, in one of the witch circles that we see in one of the trailers. So -- Oh, I missed that. -- it's gonna be around at least for a while. I think Dietra is going to be the the one who brings Rowan back into the family proper. The interesting thing about that though is that that then kicks down the road a little bit for I mean, she can't be the designee in the center of the family if she if Deidre's still alive. She can't be in control withasher, really theoretically, at least. Right. Deidre's still alive. So it'll be interesting to see how they play that. But I I think Dieter is gonna stick around longer than she does in the novels.

Ashley: Howard Bauchner: Oh, for sure, I think that I mean, she she should she should be dead before Lascher shows up on on on Rowan's doorstep. So this is really like, that part's really interesting to me. Did you notice in the opening credits, the names in the, like, in the fading in and out of the wallpaper of the previous witches So there was Angelique. I caught Angelique. I caught Deb Deb deb I catch Debra's name. Like, there was just like Deborah? They would flash in. See those. They they would flash in and out, and it was the names of of some of the, like, classic or switches, those first the first switches. So I think if you've seen I'm trying to open IMDB right now to see how many of those kind of characters if any of those they've cast in roles yet. Because I thought that was really really interesting. It caught my eye because there's sixty five people damn cast. Cut my eye almost immediately. Like, we do have Suzanne who is listed that an old witch, but I don't know if that's the case here. You know what I mean? And we've got some We got it. We got it. We

Joel: got it. Susan Susan's not the first Suzanne's

Ashley: Suzanne is the first. Suzanne's the first. She's the one that Lascher calls dumb. Okay. He's like the dumb like, they call her simple. Like, she was just, like, playing around and accidentally summoned summoned him. Right.

Joel: It's

Ashley: kind of how they sort of imply or she was upset. But there's, like yeah. There's There's some of them. I'm very

Joel: And her and her daughter's

Ashley: Deborah.

Joel: Her daughter's the one that then goes with Peter von Abel's to the Tallahasca in

Ashley: a row. Yes. Yes. And we have Deborah Mayfair listed in an IMDB character role for one episode. So that was just something I caught personally and it made

Joel: So we will at least get the origins of the film.

Ashley: Yeah. It looks like at least a little bit. I think we should all pay attention to the the opening credits of the show because they might change as we go along. I love those things when you get little clues and hints in the in the opening credits.

Joel: That would be interesting. I strongly agree. I like anything that makes that like, worthwhile watching every time, not just repetitive. Like, the the Game of Thrones thing I think is the best example ever because it

Joel: literally

Ashley: Oh my god. Yes.

Joel: What locations you were gonna be expecting in this episode? Episode to episode. It's great. Did you know Have you been watching House of Dragons? Did they do a set other thing?

Ashley: I haven't yet. I started it, and I wasn't in the right mood for it. So I was like, no. I'm not ready for this right now. And I haven't really gone back to it yet. So I know I will eventually, but, yeah, that was one of my freaking favorite things about that show. It was so awesome.

Joel: Yeah. I haven't. To

Ashley: get those little hints that it was also beautiful and the music was great.

Joel: Oh, the music is fantastic for that show, man. I haven't gotten into Game of Thrones into House of Dragon yet either for that exact same reason. I just gotta be in the right mindset. Speaking of mindset, I I just did finish the first season of the White Lotus.

Ashley: Oh, yes.

Joel: And I I don't know that I was in the right mindset for it honestly. It's a good show. It's incredibly well done, but I don't know that I liked it. I mentioned when I you and I talked about it in the last episode, I think, because I mentioned Alexandria's performance, but she she obviously is at the center of that first season. The whole show though is a level of like cringe and I think I mean, it's purposeful. It's clearly purposely done, but it's just not the kind of thing that I enjoy. So I don't know. Everybody tells me the second season's even better. I am imagining I'm gonna watch because I wanted to watch it honestly. Because it's great TV and everybody says so. It is really well done. It's not gonna be in one of my favorite list though. So I'm hoping that this performance from Alexandria will rise above. I think

Ashley: you're, like, the second season better. Well,

Joel: the second season takes place in Italy, I believe.

Ashley: Yes, it does. And it's very it's it it it it has a yeah. It's super fun. I really loved it. It's it's wild. It's a wild ride. It's about horrible rich people. I mean, what what more do we wanna laugh at?

Joel: Indeed. Indeed. Alright. Hey, before we get out of here, tonight. I do wanna remind you if you're listening to this Monday morning right after it launches or late Sunday night wherever you may be. Check us out Monday night on Dorian, the Dorian app. It's an interactive storyteller. We've done a couple of discussion clubs there for interview with the vampire. They are officially partnered with AMC again for the Mayfair Witches series. There's going to be new content dropping based on the Mayfair Witches soon in the Dorian app. And they've also partnered with Arkana, which is a different IP entirely, but does have a witchy feel to it. We're going to be talking about witchcraft. We're gonna be talking about Mayfair witches specifically. We're gonna be doing a taro reading, I think, tomorrow night? A taro reading. Yeah. I'm so excited. It's gonna be a little a little premier party. Yeah.

Joel: It's

Joel: gonna be a lot of fun. So join us for that. There will be a link for that in the show notes as well. And we look forward to speaking with you again about the second episode of the Mayfair which is on AMC and AMC Plus. It's all part of AMC's and Rice's immortal universe, and we will be here to

Ashley: come home.

Joel: Until the next time that we talk to you, we've been your hosts I'm Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the articulate cover.

Joel: Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coveen. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your AmRise loving friends.