Episode Summary: In this episode of CarbonSessions, hosts Leekei, Jenn, and Kristina dive into the fascinating world of ancient low-tech solutions being reimagined for modern environmental challenges. They explore how businesses are harnessing time-tested technologies to create sustainable solutions for today's world.

Key discussion points include:

• Reviving Ancient Maritime Techniques: The hosts discuss the innovative use of "wind wings" on cargo ships, a modern twist on traditional sails, to reduce reliance on fossil fuels.
• Simple Pleasures of Snail Mail: The conversation shifts to the joys of traditional letter writing, specifically a service that sends story chapters via snail mail, fostering connections and sparking imaginations in a low-tech manner.
• Sustainable Milling Practices: They explore the revival of water-powered mills with stone grinders in the Czech Republic, celebrating the unique taste and nutritional value of traditionally milled flour.
• Solar-Powered Bakeries: Highlighting a bakery in Normandy that bakes bread using solar energy, the hosts discuss how this eco-friendly approach is spreading across France.
• Baby-Led Weaning: The discussion turns to the trend of baby-led weaning, where infants transition directly from breast milk or formula to real food, bypassing the need for processed baby food.

Through these examples, the episode showcases how blending ancient wisdom with modern innovation can lead to environmentally friendly and sustainable business practices.

For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac, visit thecarbonalmanac.org

Want to join in the conversation?

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives.

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up!

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Jenn Swanson and Kristina Horning.

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert and podcaster from Paris, France. 

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater.

Hi, I'm Christina.

2

I'm from Prague.

3

Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

4

Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

5

Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

6

Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

7

Welcome to Carbon Sessions.

8

A podcast with Carbon Conversations

for every day with everyone

9

from everywhere in the world.

10

In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

11

can actually do to make a difference.

12

So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions because it's not too late.

13

Hi, it's Nikki.

14

Hi, it's Kristina.

15

Hi, it's Jen.

16

. Today we're going to talk about something.

17

Wow.

18

I think it's fascinating.

19

, the other day I was listening to the

radio and I heard someone, some, some

20

journalist talking about hydrogen

and , the journalist seemed to be

21

very, very excited about hydrogen.

22

But then.

23

Then someone said, yeah, but you

know, it's not that we don't have the

24

technology to solve climate change

or to be better with the environment.

25

Almost everything is here.

26

And it's just that we don't have the

will or we don't want to transform the

27

way we've been living up until now.

28

And so that's why I suggested this

conversation on businesses that are based

29

on an ancient technology, uh, something

like low tech or like something that, that

30

is so obvious that has been used for ages.

31

It doesn't pollute a lot and that

we could do incredible things.

32

And we're going to talk about

these incredible businesses that

33

have based their business on this

ancient low tech technologies.

34

Who wants to start?

35

I can start.

36

Great.

37

Okay.

38

So, I have two.

39

One of them is really big, and

one of them is really little,

40

in all senses of the words.

41

The first one is that I just found out

about recently is that cargo ships.

42

are playing with, experimenting with,

going back to putting sails, S A I L

43

S, on their ships, and they're calling

them wind wings, and they don't look

44

like the, the cloth sails, they're

kind of like an inverted airplane wing

45

with the flaps, they're, they're metal.

46

But instead of using coal and,

and fuel, fossil fuels, they're

47

going back to the ancient way that

ships used to sail across the sea.

48

And 90 percent of the stuff that's

sent overseas is sent by ship.

49

And so this is amazing.

50

And there are actually companies that

have been testing this and thinking

51

about this since 2010, I found out.

52

But next year, there are, uh, some

things in place regulation wise,

53

and they're going to be measuring

the fuel use, et cetera, and they're

54

going to be testing with these wings.

55

So it's pretty cool and exciting.

56

And if you look it up online, um, NPR

and BBC and a whole bunch of places have

57

photographs of these ships with these

vertical, uh, wings, like, um, uh, sort

58

of like big steel panels with flaps.

59

That act as sails so that they

can use less power or no power at

60

some points and, and pick up the

wind, uh, the way it used to be.

61

So that's really cool.

62

That, that's really cool, but I find it

very weird to call it to sail cargo ship

63

because when you mentioned sail, you

know, what I picture is the big, big, big.

64

Close white cell, like sailboat, . But

yeah, I saw, yeah, I saw a picture of it.

65

They actually look like, uh,

like smokestacks or something?

66

, yeah.

67

Like only the, you know

the, it's a sailboat.

68

Yeah.

69

Without the cell.

70

Only with the mask, you know,

with the st, yeah, yeah, yeah.

71

But wide.

72

So really cool.

73

So that's my first thing.

74

And the second thing I came across

recently that I would love to do

75

with my grandson, but he's not big

enough yet, so I have to wait till.

76

He can read, which he's, you know, he's

two and he's already knows his numbers

77

and letters backwards and forwards.

78

But anyway, I have to wait

for a little bit longer.

79

I discovered a company that you

can sign up for and they will

80

send, uh, a letter twice a month,

I think, to whoever you desire.

81

And the letter is part of a story.

82

And you open the letter, it's

paper, and it's beautifully

83

illustrated, and there's a story.

84

And the idea is that you can then connect

with the person who bought this for you.

85

You could be miles and miles apart.

86

and talk about the story and

wonder what's going to happen next.

87

And every couple of weeks,

a letter comes in the mail,

88

like old fashioned snail mail.

89

And, uh, and it's just a delightful,

simple, old fashioned way.

90

Um, inspiring imagination and, um,

and it's an activity for a child

91

that doesn't require batteries.

92

It isn't plastic, you know, and I thought

this is wonderful because we often don't

93

get things in the mail anymore and how fun

for a child to get something like that.

94

So I love this idea and I can't wait.

95

So how does it work?

96

Because you say that enables

, the kid to connect with the

97

person who send the snail mail.

98

So does it mean that you're going

to do it for your grandson?

99

And then it's a way for your

grandson to connect with you?

100

Yeah, it's just that the company

is the one like you buy it and then

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tell them the person's name and

everything else, the child's name.

102

And then the company sends.

103

This basically like a

dripped out story, right?

104

You get a little chapter of the

story sent and it gets mailed in a

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beautiful envelope that the envelope

is beautiful, the paper is beautiful.

106

And it has the child's name on it.

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And then every time they get

one, you can read it together.

108

You can talk about it on the phone

if you're not nearby, you know,

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like there's just a way to connect.

110

And then, you know, you can talk

about the characters and wonder

111

what's going to happen next.

112

It's almost like reading a book together,

only it's over, I think, a year.

113

It's, it's like a long

time that the person.

114

Uh, that gets an envelope in the mail.

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I mean, you could do

it for any age, right?

116

But it's just kind of a fun thing.

117

I love this idea.

118

It is actually something I

did for my nieces and nephews.

119

What I try to do every time I go

on holiday on the place that is not

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very well known, like no, no, that

is not very well known, but not a

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lot of people go on holiday too.

122

What I try to do is to buy postcards.

123

, with a stamp and send it to my

nieces and nephews, because as

124

you said, we don't receive a lot

of letters and things through the

125

traditional snail mail anymore.

126

And I, I love to do it.

127

I mean, this summer I went to Latvia

and you probably , guess that not

128

many people go on holiday in Latvia.

129

So that was the perfect excuse

for me to send in a postcard.

130

And I did for my niece's and nephew

and think it's very beautiful

131

because my six year old niece

thought it was a great idea.

132

And so, so then she started

writing postcards as well to all

133

of us when she went on holiday.

134

And so I think it's, it's, it's,

uh, it's a very nice circle.

135

It's, uh, it's starting a new

tradition, which I think is beautiful.

136

And it's another way of, you know,

having this conversation and connecting.

137

Great.

138

I have one, uh, story

about, uh, food, food story.

139

They started in Czech

Republic restoring mills.

140

That run on water and they have the

old stones instead of, um, metal

141

grinders, they have stone grinders

and they can make flour from basically

142

anything, wheat, corn, all of it.

143

It's getting popular because it tastes

different and all the nutrients are

144

there and they cannot melt too much.

145

So they don't have much storage.

146

And so shelf life of these

flowers are, uh, very short, but

147

the flowers are delicious and

you don't use any electricity.

148

For milling the flour.

149

And so I thought that was a wonderful

way to do something old ways.

150

Oh, that's beautiful.

151

That's wonderful.

152

I bet the bread tastes so

good made with that flour.

153

Yeah.

154

And it rises different than works

with the yeast much easier, faster,

155

because it's real flour with all

the little microbes and everybody

156

that are good for rising the bread.

157

Yeah.

158

You know what's funny?

159

That makes me think of, um, that we

were given, uh, as a hand me down,

160

a big machine that makes coffee and

cappuccinos and I can't remember what

161

they're called, but this thing was the

size of the old computer stack, you know,

162

the big, like it's a giant thing and

they, they handed it down because they

163

had gotten a new one and gave it to us.

164

Not something we ever would

have gone out and bought.

165

And honest to goodness, it

was so difficult to use.

166

You had to take it apart, you had

to decalcify it, you had to clean

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it, and it wasted so much coffee

because you ground the coffee and

168

then it would, it would do its thing

and it would make you a cup, right?

169

And this thing, it took up so

much space, it took up so much

170

bandwidth because we would be so

frustrated trying to make coffee.

171

And you know, we have one cup of

coffee a day and our usual way of

172

making coffee is a French press,

which is very old fashioned.

173

You put the coffee in and you let

it sit and then you push it, plunge

174

her down and there's your coffee.

175

Right?

176

So we ended up actually giving this

thing to somebody else because we

177

just couldn't handle it anymore.

178

It was too fancy and it had too

many parts that didn't work every

179

once in a while and it might break.

180

And, uh, and it took up so much

space instead of this little bodum

181

that we have that you can tuck away,

you know, and sometimes simpler and

182

old fashioned is just dang easy.

183

Amazing on these mills.

184

Some of them are made out of wood

instead of metal, all those wheels.

185

And everything is made out of wood.

186

It makes me laugh when, uh, you go into

restaurants now, like we have a big coffee

187

culture in my corner of the world, and

it makes me laugh when they talk about

188

pour overs, they have this fancy new name

for what used to be the Melita, you know,

189

used to put the thing in the top of the.

190

And just pour stuff in or pour

it into a pot with boiling water,

191

which is like the old fashioned way.

192

And now they call it a pour over, which

is exactly the same thing from the

193

1960s and 70s that they've gone back to.

194

And now it's very she she in the

coffee shops to have a pour over,

195

which is like old technology.

196

I looked at it and I'm like,

they're not doing anything different

197

than my mother used to do before

automatic coffee maker drip machines.

198

Right?

199

It's really fun.

200

Yeah, I still remember my grandmother

just grinding coffee in a small hand,

201

uh, grinder for coffee and then putting

it in a cup, pouring hot water over

202

it, let it settle and then drinking it.

203

No filters, nothing, just

pure coffee and water.

204

And it did settle, surprisingly.

205

And if plus the timing was

perfect because it was too hot

206

when you pour it and Mixed it in.

207

And when it settled, it

was perfect temperature.

208

Exactly.

209

Exactly.

210

They were so smart.

211

And it's kind of like old

fashioned bread making.

212

You know, I had a bread maker for years

when my kids were growing up and yes, it

213

was convenient and all the rest of it.

214

But.

215

Um, I started making bread when I was

11 and baked beautiful braided egg

216

loaves and sour dough and stuff that

looked gorgeous cause it was fun.

217

And it didn't take anything

other than, you know, salt,

218

water, flour, and, and yeast.

219

And it was so simple.

220

And, and so, you know, I don't

have a bread maker anymore, but

221

if I'm going to make bread, I want

to do it the old fashioned way

222

because it always tastes good.

223

Yeah.

224

Oh, that's wonderful.

225

Yeah.

226

With bread making for me, I

couldn't bake bread that tasted

227

good and had good crust in the oven.

228

And finally, my friend showed it to me and

she baked it in a pot with a lid first.

229

And then at the end opened the pot, it's

like, Oh my God, that's so brilliant.

230

Finally, perfect bread.

231

Ah, so nice.

232

Well, and I can't eat gluten

anymore because of the bread here,

233

but I can eat properly fermented

sourdough, which is not easy to find.

234

But when I find it, I love it

because I can actually eat that.

235

But if it's not properly

fermented sourdough.

236

Um, and there's a lot of

pretend sourdough out there.

237

They put vinegar in it or

something to make it taste sour,

238

but it's not actually sourdough.

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Then I'm sick.

240

I like the old tile stoves.

241

You can see them in Europe in castles and

big buildings, but they used to be in all

242

the apartments and they would be about

two meters high, six, seven feet high.

243

And very massive, it's a massive

structure, um, brick structure

244

with tiles on the outside.

245

And so you make a fire and it heats up.

246

And so this whole mass holds

the heater and you don't have

247

to feed it and heat it up.

248

And then at night, and it keeps the

house really warm, the apartment.

249

I like that.

250

You can, in old buildings in the

countryside, they made beds on top of it

251

so people even could sleep on top of it.

252

The tile stuff were amazing.

253

That's cool.

254

We discussed coffee, we discussed

flow, and so I would like to

255

shed a light on a solar bakery.

256

A bakery that bakes bread, makes

bread only with solar energy.

257

And this is a bakery that

is located in Normandy.

258

So on the West Coast in France, not

the sunniest part of France, but

259

you'll be surprised because we don't

need so much sun to bake bread.

260

The way it works is that you

have this, a big, big, big, what

261

they call a solar concentrator.

262

The job of this device.

263

Is to collect the sun and

then reflect it into an oven.

264

So the way this thing is made is that it's

a big panel of, um, not so big actually.

265

It's, um, uh, the, the size of it is 11

meters square and it has 69 small mirrors.

266

And that all collects the energy from

the sun and reflected into an oven.

267

And it takes one hour to heat the oven.

268

And when the sun is very, very strong.

269

The temperature goes up to 900 degrees,

but you don't need 900 degrees to bake.

270

Wow.

271

Yeah.

272

Yeah.

273

I mean, you, you don't need 900

degrees, but when the sun is very

274

bright, it can go up to 900 degrees.

275

So in the video that I've seen that.

276

On the day, like, you know, on a

day with some clouds, there's still

277

sun, they can make up to four hours

of use of the, um, of the oven.

278

And, uh, one hour of the use of oven

is you can make 40 kilos of bread.

279

So, on a not so sunny day, like on

a cloudy day, you can make about,

280

you know, 120, 160 kilos of bread.

281

That is bread.

282

And just imagine, uh, in the

summer, you know, how much bread

283

you can make just with solar energy.

284

And this business is inspired by solar

bakeries in Kenya and in Tanzania.

285

It's something that they use over there.

286

And so I think this is, uh,

this is really, really cool.

287

But there's more, because sometimes they

don't have enough sun, um, because there's

288

some days that there's just, you know,

it, it rains because it's in Normandy.

289

So the weather is not always sunny.

290

But what they do is because they want

to be energy frugal, if there's such a

291

word, , when there's not enough sun for

the solar oven, what they do is they use

292

this wood fire oven to, to bake bread.

293

So that way they can provide

bread to their customers.

294

And because they have this idea of

being very, uh, frugal with energy,

295

um, everything they do is, I mean, when

they can do it, they do it manually.

296

Like when you make bread,

you have to, um, knead it.

297

You know, you need it when you need it.

298

And so they do it by hand.

299

There's no fridge and because

it's a business, so they do all

300

the delivery on the bike, e bike.

301

So I think this is, um, this is great.

302

, and , this bakery, this is the

first bakery in France, but they

303

want to transform the sector.

304

What they want to do is

to make things better.

305

And so they provide training.

306

And as of.

307

This year in, I think it was in

April, they have converted 10 bakeries

308

in France to use the solar oven.

309

Wow.

310

That's fantastic.

311

That really is.

312

That really is.

313

I bet it tastes good too.

314

Now I'm hungry.

315

I'm sure it's good, yeah.

316

Yeah, but I'm actually doing more than

just making bread because they also

317

use, when there's a lot of sun, they

also use the energy , from the sun

318

and the heat from the oven to roast

beans because they were trying , to

319

offer an alternative sources of beans.

320

To peanuts, spices,

chocolate, and coffees.

321

So they use the, the heat when

they have baked too many breads.

322

And when the oven is still hot,

they use it to roast beans.

323

So they're not wasting the

heat at all, which is great.

324

No.

325

Yeah.

326

And, um, yeah.

327

And so they're trying to promote other

like spices or way of making beverages.

328

Very cool.

329

Yeah.

330

People are smart.

331

They figure out things.

332

Well, and I wonder too, if there's

trends, like there's, you know, trends

333

with ideas and ways of doing things that

come in and out of fashion too, you know?

334

Yes.

335

Because last week you talk

about cardboard cameras.

336

Yeah.

337

Paper cameras.

338

Yeah.

339

Paper cameras.

340

They're very, they're very trendy.

341

Um, yeah.

342

Yeah.

343

Um, another thing that's trendy.

344

Lately, that makes a lot of sense,

saves a lot of money, saves a lot

345

of, um, everything, is a new thing.

346

Well, it's a new thing.

347

It's a new thing now.

348

It's called baby lead weaning.

349

Have you heard of it?

350

And so it's not using

baby food in jars anymore.

351

I used to make my baby food,

but now a lot of parents are not

352

even giving their kids baby food.

353

They're giving them regular food,

just in little pieces, and there's

354

a whole way of thinking that.

355

Children need to learn how to chew and

swallow and not choke, and that they can

356

do it from a really, really young age.

357

Part of what they need is a foot panel

on the high chair, because if you

358

choke, your natural thing is to push.

359

And so they want to make sure there's a

place to put their feet so they can push.

360

And then the parents take first

aid so they know, you know, what

361

to do if a child starts choking.

362

Think of very tiny babies.

363

are going now straight from breast milk

or a formula to actually eating real food.

364

And there's no more of this feeding

with the baby food jars of food.

365

And I thought, wow, this is old

again, going back to how it used

366

to be, but it eliminates that whole

section of time where you need to

367

buy jarred processed pre manufactured

baby food that has to, you know, be

368

shipped on trucks and all this stuff.

369

And I thought, wow, that like.

370

Everything old is new again.

371

And it's so healthy for kids to touch

it with their hands because that

372

way they get all the information

from the reflexes and putting in

373

their mouths instead of being fed.

374

That's brilliant.

375

Yeah.

376

Yeah.

377

They call it baby led weaning and

it's little pieces of things and

378

there's particular things that they

recommend not doing until they're.

379

You know, a bit older, but I

watched it happen and thought,

380

wow, we never did this.

381

We had jars of baby food or

we made our own baby food.

382

That's great.

383

So much smarter.

384

That's so great.

385

Yeah.

386

I, I'm, I'm curious, Jen and Christina,

when you started this conversation,

387

you say that there's something that

is big and something that is smaller.

388

What is the big thing?

389

What is a small thing?

390

Oh, for me, the big thing was

the big ships and a big, big

391

companies and an entire industry.

392

And.

393

The little thing for me, because

that's a big global thing and,

394

and a manufacturing thing.

395

And it's, it's a big, big, big, big thing.

396

And the small thing was the sending

of letters and we can all do that.

397

We can all, you could write your own

stories and send them or send postcards

398

like you do Leakey and just do something

that's delightful and low tech because.

399

Children don't necessarily need

everything to be computerized

400

or done for them, right?

401

To be able to have something in

your hand that you can hold, that

402

you can look forward to getting.

403

That you can read yourself or with

help and that's, you know, there's so

404

much room for delight and imagination

in something so simple and so small.

405

So that's what I was thinking.

406

Yeah.

407

But that's precisely why I think

that the, this letter thing is the

408

much bigger thing than this ship with

boat, because you don't need to wait,

409

you can do it right away and anybody

can do it and you can do it with.

410

The new generation, you know,

the generation of the future.

411

So that's, that's very,

very, very big to me.

412

Well played.

413

Well played.

414

Okay.

415

That was fun.

416

That was wonderful.

417

That was fun.

418

Now we're all going to run out and

write letters and go eat bread.

419

Get the yeast going, the farther going.

420

That's right.

421

Yeah.

422

You've been listening to Carbon

Sessions, a podcast with carbon

423

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424

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