In this powerful conversation, Kate has a powerful conversation with her dear friend and Women’s Empowerment Coach, Amy Pamensky to unpack something so many women don’t even realize they’re trapped inside:

Good Girl Programming.

The invisible conditioning that taught us to be agreeable, accommodating, impressive, self-sacrificing, desirable, and “easy to love.”

The part of us that learned early on that approval equals safety.

That being chosen equals worth.

That keeping the peace matters more than telling the truth.

In this episode, Kate and Amy explore how “good girl” conditioning shows up in dating, marriage, career, money, friendships - and even in the way we relate to our own desires.

Because most women aren’t actually struggling with love.

They’re struggling with the fear of being “too much.”

Too emotional.

Too ambitious.

Too sexual.

Too honest.

Too powerful.

In This Episode, We Explore:

1. What “Good Girl Programming” actually is and how it gets formed
2. How people-pleasing disconnects you from your intuition
3. The subtle ways women abandon themselves to stay chosen
4. Why resentment is often a sign you’re betraying your truth
5. The difference between kindness and self-erasure
6. How to stop outsourcing approval and start building internal safety
7. What it actually takes to become an “Unscripted Woman”

This conversation is not about blaming men or burning your life down.

It’s about reclaiming your voice.

Your no.

Your standards.

Your desire.

Your sovereignty.

Because the truth is - the version of you who is deeply loved, met, and respected?

She is not performing.

She is not shrinking.

She is not managing everyone else’s comfort.

She is rooted in herself.

If you’ve ever felt exhausted from being “the good one,”

If you’ve ever swallowed your truth to avoid conflict,

If you’ve ever built a life that looks good on paper but feels quietly misaligned…

This episode is for you.

It’s time to break the script.

About the Guest:

Amy Natalie is an author, podcast host, and a Feminine leadership coach with over a decade of coaching experience. She specializes in helping women emerge as their most authentic, confident, and fully-expressed selves. Her mission is to ignite women into their feminine power so they can live a life of freedom, pleasure, and fulfillment. Amy is the author of The Feminine Way and the host of the Feminine Frequency Podcast, which has over 400 episodes reaching women all around the globe.

Links

Website: www.amynatalieco.com

Instagram: www.instagram.com/amynatalieco

Free Morning Ritual: https://amynatalieco.mykajabi.com/morningritual

Free Truth Telling Ritual: https://amynatalieco.mykajabi.com/reveal-your-truth

The Feminine Way Book: https://a.co/d/0awxV5ty

Feminine Frequency Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/feminine-frequency-podcast/id1494698607

About the Host:

Kate Harlow is the founder of The Unscriptd Woman, the creator of The Expanded Love Coaching Method, and host of The New Truth podcast - ranked in the top 1.5% globally. With over 15 years of experience teaching, coaching and facilitating transformational retreats worldwide, Kate has helped hundreds of thousands of women break free from outdated relational patterns, old patriarchal ways of thinking and unspoken rules to live by. 

Her infallible methods guide women to release the deeply ingrained scripts that keep them stuck- empowering women to step into their highest, most magnetic, and fully expressed selves. Through her coaching, retreats, podcast and upcoming book The Unscriptd Woman, Kate is redefining what it means to be an empowered woman in today's world, showing women how to stop waiting for permission and start creating a life and love that aligns with their deepest truth. 

Known for her rare ability to see exactly where women are out of alignment with themselves, Kate offers a path back to unwavering self- trust, meaningful joy and true fulfillment. Her work is a revolution - one that liberates women from societal expectations and invites them into a life of radical authenticity, thriving relationships and unshakable self-worth.  

Website:  https://www.theunscriptdwoman.com/

The Immersion in Corfu, Greece April 26- May 3, 2026 https://www.theunscriptdwoman.com/the-immersion

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I think just starting by naming some of the

patterns that come along with good girl conditioning, so that

women can really see if they are currently playing that role in

their life, either to a large degree or to a smaller degree.

And what I'll share is that we are all exposed to the same

conditioning from media, from our culture, from our society,

and we internalize that conditioning in our current

modern day. I mean, I even see this for like my maternal

lineage, like this is how women have been programmed up until

now. And I see us right here, right now, as change makers, as

women who are breaking the chains of our maternal lineage

to come back into our power. And it's really beautiful that we're

in a time that we're able to do that.

My love, I am so excited for you to hear this

episode with a very special person in my life, Amy Natalie,

who is a dear friend, soul sister, who I actually met right

before we launched the new truth in January 2020, and she was

about to launch her podcast, feminine frequency podcast,

which you might already listen to if you don't go check it out.

But Amy and I connected at this business event, and we just like

instantly connected, and it's been so beautiful because I have

had her on the new truth. We have had her on the new truth

several times over the years, and she's had me on her podcast,

the feminine frequency, several times over the years. She just

had me on on Valentine's Day. And it's so beautiful because

both of us have evolved and grown so much through our work

and as we're both really just walking the talk, walking the

embodiment of what we teach. So she is a magical soul. She's an

author, a podcast host, a feminine leadership coach with

over a decade of coaching experience. She specializes in

helping women emerge as their most authentic, confident, fully

expressed selves. Her mission is to ignite women into their

feminine power so they can live a life of freedom, pleasure and

fulfillment. And she is the author of the feminine way, a

book that I think she wrote last year, and is the host of the

feminine frequency podcast, which has over 400 episodes. So

she, at one point, was doing two episodes a week. So she has more

episodes than the new truth. She is amazing, such a magical soul,

and there's just so many nuggets of gold in this episode of

learning how to break free from being a good girl and how to

really liberate yourself to live from the essence of your soul.

And Amy is really the embodiment of that. So enjoy her magic and

her medicine. And as always, spread the spread the episode to

all the women you know who need to hear this message. Lots of

love. Hello, my loves. I am so excited for this conversation.

Welcome back. Amy Natalie,

thank you. I'm excited to be here with you as

this version of myself in this timeline, yeah, and

in the solo or the new truth with just being mine.

This is actually the one year anniversary yesterday of the new

truth just being mine. So you've never been on this version of

the new truth, but I think this is your third or fourth time. Do

you know how many times you've been on

I don't I love the new truth. I love it as a guest

and as a teacher, and I also love it as a listener. So I'm

really excited about what's unfolding for you, and also for

all of these incredible women to get to receive your wisdom and

your magic and your love. And, yeah, to get to be a part of

this incredible community

and your wisdom and your magic and your love, yeah,

it's, it's kind of cool that you've I think I feel like this

is at least the third time, but maybe the fourth. And I know

I've been on feminine frequency. If you don't know the feminine

frequency podcast, go follow it now. But I've been on that

several times, once with Catherine, but many times on my

own. And I think it's so cool because you and I met. The

divine timing of our meeting was literally the month that, or

like, I think days before both of us were launching our

podcasts in January 2020,

yeah, I feel like we've had such parallel

timelines in so many different facets of our lives, and I just

love that our souls get to keep weaving. And I feel like you and

I have such similar missions with just different flavors and

different teachings that really support women to ultimately live

in their power, in love, in purpose, in friendship, in their

life choices. And yeah, I'm just such a fan of your work and our

shared mission in the world.

Okay, I just got goosebumps because I was just

thinking how this is the new paradigm of female

relationships. There's no shortage of. Women on planet

earth who need help. And, you know, some women will be

actually, I've had clients who've worked with you and me,

and I've worked ahead clients. I've worked with Catherine and

me, and you know, it and, or, you know, just benefit from both

podcasts. And it's so beautiful that there is no shortage, you

know, we've been trained in in especially as women to compete,

to be separate, to be comparing and jealous and threatened, and

yet it's so beautiful how our work is so similar and how we

deliver it, and like our magic and medicine, is different. So

even one woman can work with both of us and get so much value

and from both perspectives and and both practices and both, you

know, experiences, even though, yeah, like similarities, but

different, because we're all unique, and when we're living

from our souls, there's no competition. Like we all have a

different magic that we bring, even if it's almost the same

thing.

Yeah, I feel like this is the new paradigm, which

is really about collaboration over competition and celebration

of other women, because in our culture, women are actually

taught how to connect over gossip, over judgment and about

other women. And the new paradigm is, how big can I

actually celebrate another woman's light? How big can I

support her and celebrate like her fullness? And I think that

we each individually, benefit so much from that and are able to

rise and shine brighter together. And I write about this

in my book, The feminine way, because sisterhood has been such

a mirror for me of my own growth and evolution, because

sisterhood was not something that came easily to me when I

was younger. I had a lot of insecurities. I had a lot of

self judgment around my body, around being too much, too

sensitive, all these things, and it was reflected in my

friendships. I would get triggered very easily. I would

shut down. I would create distance. I would want more from

friends that they couldn't give to me. And I often felt left

out, like very left out. And I didn't have that experience of

being part of like a group or part of a sorority, and I just

didn't feel like I belonged with a lot of women. And once I went

through my own the initial spiritual awakening that I went

through in my late 20s and started on my personal

development path, and really started to do this work around

self love and self worth and authenticity and not having to

be someone in order to fit in. That's when I got to experience

the magic of sisterhood and of women who really see me, who I

feel like I have genuine connections with, who I'm not

afraid are going to like go talk behind my back or think I'm too

much, but really, those that can actually hold all of me, right?

And I'm, I'm a Scorpio. I go really deep. I love the deep

stuff, and I also have a lot of joy and play and sensuality and

pleasure inside of me, and that can be intimidating for women

too. And yeah, I'll just share one, one example from recently,

like, last week, one of my girlfriends, she was in late

luteal, and she was having, like, a really hard day, and she

was asking me about my life, and I was sharing about some new

experiences that I'm having and love that I'm experiencing. And

she was able to, even in like, the challenging place that she's

in. Like, be really celebratory of me, and be like, Wow. Like,

thanks for sharing this energy with me. Thanks for for bringing

this yummy energy to my life right now, because I'm having a

little bit of a hard time, you know,

takes her out, instead of it being this thing

that makes her feel bad about herself. Because it's just like

relating from our patterns, and building relationship from our

patterns, where you're the perfect little match to whatever

their patterns are. And then it's always a painful,

unsupportive relationship, even if it might look supportive on

the surface, versus the like you have transformed your

relationship with yourself, right? Of celebrating yourself,

loving yourself, honoring yourself. And so then you become

a magnet to that like that is exactly. It's just a mirror of

where you're at, what you said at the beginning, where you're

at in yourself, how fucking beautiful. And I imagine so many

women listening are in the other type of relationships, still and

longing for a deep, meaningful sisterhood. And I just think,

like, I mean, even in Africa, it's like everything is

community oriented here. Every my friend said the other day,

it's like everyone parents, everyone's kids. It's not like

my kid and your kid and your daughter did something my

daughter. It's not this separation consciousness. It's

like everyone's doing it together. All the kids are in

like everyone's in community together. And how, you know,

going back ancestrally women, we. We, we were only in

community. You know, men weren't even there. Like we've made men

the center of our worlds now. And yet, it used to be women

with women and men off on their individual hunting, you know,

journeys.

Yeah, last night, I got together with what I call

my soul family here in Asheville. And most of my

friends are, you know, have kids that are under one years old or

between one and two years old, and I created this monthly

gathering called the soul fam supper club to get everyone

together at least once a month. We see each other more often

than that, but to have this regular touch point where we get

to watch these kids grow and we get to celebrate our expansion

together and be there for each other. And yeah, just being

there last night, it felt like that. You know, people were

holding each other's kids, and the kids were playing together,

and we all got to connect in different ways. And yeah, I

definitely feel like that community element is something

that is missing and that is possible for for everyone when

you're on this path of soul evolution and surrounding

yourself with people who who really get it. Yes, I love it.

So beautiful. What a great place to start. Because

when we're trapped in the good girl program, we that was me,

like the goody goody best friend to everyone, like, big because

I'm a people person. So when I was little, I was, like,

literally best friends with fucking everyone. But like, it

felt horrible to be in most of those relationships, because it

was at the expense of everything that everything that I was

feeling. It was just like I would contort myself in every

possible way to belong in any group, but that I never belonged

to myself, and I never felt good inside. And I remember even like

after I would leave gatherings with even my very best friends,

I would my saboteur mind would be like, you did something

wrong. They're judging you. They probably hate you. They'll never

gonna call you again like I was tortured in my friendships, even

though I was friends with everyone so and I was definitely

the good girl to the nth degree. So I'm really excited to have

this conversation with you and unpack breaking free from good

girl programming and everything that comes with that. So where

do you want to start?

Yeah, I think just starting by naming some of the

patterns that come along with with good girl conditioning, so

that women can really see if they are currently playing that

role in their life, either to a large degree or to a smaller

degree. And what I'll share is that we are all exposed to the

same conditioning from media, from our culture, from our

society, and we internalize that conditioning and in in our

current, modern day. I mean, I even see this for like my

maternal lineage, like this is how women have been programmed

up until now. And I see us right here, right now, as change

makers, as women who are breaking the chains of our

maternal lineage to come back into our power. And it's really

beautiful that we're in a time that we're able to do that so

similar to you, I was very much in what you would call good girl

conditioning. And good girl conditioning is a way of being.

It's a conditioning that is rooted in wanting to be liked

and wanting to be accepted. So I think it's important for us to

recognize where it comes from. It's from our attachment system

of I want people to like me and love me so that I feel like I

belong and I feel like I'm safe, right?

Where do you think we learned it like, where do you

think it comes from?

Oh, we watch. We watch our mothers do this. We

watch men and like society place us in these gender roles of how

women should behave and how men should behave. And so I think

it's deeply ingrained, even in movies. I think it's ingrained

in how we see our mothers and grandmothers performing or

behaving, right? I see it coming from religion, from patriarchal

conditioning. It's it's everywhere. That's just how

we've been molded of mean, this is what it means to be good. And

if I'm good, then I'm liked and I'm accepted. If I'm quote,

unquote bad because I'm not following the rules and I'm not

playing small or demure or polite or kind all the time, or

if I'm not saying yes to everything and everyone, then I

am good. And if I'm saying doing the opposite of that, I'm being

myself, I'm using my voice, I'm being true and honest, and I'm

being expressed, then I'm quote, unquote bad, or in a.

Appropriate, right?

So which, of course, we all were those things

when we were little, and then we got put in the go sit in the

corner. You're grounded, go to your room at school, shamed for

it publicly, like the having a voice gets shut down so early

for girls. And then, of course, like as adults in the corporate

world, and it's still, isn't it crazy to think it still happens?

How much women, Yeah, shut down for using, oh, you're emotional.

Oh, you're that. And like a man can say the exact same thing and

gets a completely different response.

Yeah, it's wild. I mean, some of my clients have

shared with me, when we start to unpack some of the deeper layers

of this conditioning, is they will share things that they

heard when they're younger, that women are meant to be seen, not

heard. Don't be so dramatic. You're being too much. You know,

you go to your bedroom until you can can pull it together, right?

These are things that were taught directly and indirectly.

So this leads to some of the patterns, primarily like people

pleasing, which is something that I used to do all the time,

and was a huge, huge reason why I ended up being depressed, why

I ended up having being feeling disconnected for myself and

where I was like performing but I didn't feel like the real me.

Another pattern that we see is conflict avoidance, where we

don't want to ruffle any feathers, we don't want other

people to be upset with us, so we just swallow what's bothering

us, or we swallow when something doesn't feel right. Another part

of good girl conditioning is deriving your worth like feeling

like you need to prove yourself in order to receive love and

acceptance and emotional suppression, which is something

that we just talked about, is like, oh, I need to be put

together perfect, like, have this fake smile on my face and

pretend everything's fine and Everything's good, and then

behind the scenes, you feel like the people that you're

surrounding yourself by don't value you, or you feel upset

about something, and you never say something, and it just

creates a lot of in inauthenticity in your

relationships. And shape shifting is another one. Is like

being who other people, who you think you need to be in

different situations, like adapting to the world around

you. So those are just a few of them. There's a lot of different

components to good girl conditioning, but essentially, I

really love this, this philosophy that Dr Gabor Mate

teaches, which is about the difference between authenticity

and attachment, and essentially, what he says is that we all have

both of those needs. We have the need for attachment when we're

younger. We need our parents in order to survive, so we're going

to modify and do whatever we can in order to receive that love,

nourishment and safety. We also have a need for authenticity, of

expressing who we really are in the world, of following our own

path, of being who we came here to be. And oftentimes there's an

inner conflict of those two pieces. If I am who I really am

meant to be, if I follow my soul, if I listen to my heart,

then am I going to be rejected? Am I going to be cast out from

the tribe? Are other people going to be upset with me? Am I

going to disappoint people and everyone who's on a path of

growth and evolution at some point is going to experience

this, this inner war, this inner battle between these two needs,

and ultimately, a lot of people will choose attachment, which is

why they will stay in relationships that aren't

working. They will stay in jobs that are sucking their soul dry.

They will not wear the clothes that they want to wear, because

they're afraid of what other people will think. And so they

end up living this life that is very vanilla, that is very

small, that is not fulfilling or enlivening. And it is those who

have the courage to live from authenticity and be true to

themselves that end up experiencing that radiance, that

aliveness, the deep connection, the deep intimacy, the deep love

and the freedom to be themselves. And that's I think

what you and I teach very much for women, is to operate from

that place of of truth, which doesn't mean that you need to be

a pitch or you need to be like, never like. It doesn't mean that

you can't be in loving connection with your family or

the people in your life. It's just that some people are not

going to be able to handle that, and so there will be some people

who fall away, but the people who really love you and care

about you are going to actually feel inspired by you living in

your light, and you living on your own path.

Yes, totally, yeah. I mean, look at my parents. They

just came to Africa. They never were going to come to Africa. It

was like, not on their list. They were not planning on it. My

dad just turned 79k he looks like he's like, 30, he acts like

he's 30, but he crazily, just turned 79 and like, they travel

to Greece every year because they lived in Greece. You know,

do these have this like crazy relationship with Greeks and

Greece and the culture and the people because of all the four

years that they've come to visit me, and now they came to Kenya,

and they fell in love with Kenyan people, and they're

probably coming back next year, like It's so wild to think how

much their world has opened up because I followed my truth.

Yeah, I've loved watching you follow your truth

and inspire other people to do that. And so beautiful to hear

how your parents have opened up and expanded because of your

path. And I feel very similarly, you know, I grew up in a pretty

traditional religious upbringing and very conservative. And what

was your religion? I didn't know that. What was your religion?

Yeah, so my family's Jewish, and I went to a private Jewish

school from kindergarten to 12th grade. There were 45 people in

my graduating class, and that is a very, very core value of my

family, and that's ultimately what led me to marrying the man

that I did in my early 20s, because it was very, very, very

important for my family for me to date and marry someone

Jewish. And that's ultimately how I felt like I would be fully

accepted by my family. Because when I did date non Jewish men,

that was a huge point of conflict in my relationship with

my parents, and then when I did marry someone that fit the mold

of who they wanted me to marry, who, by the way, was a really

nice person. Was a lovely man. He treated me well, like there

wasn't anything blatantly, quote, unquote wrong, but

internally, it didn't feel true for me, and because it was the

script, it was like, who you were. Like, here

we've handed you. We've decided what your religion is, we've

decided what your path is. We've decided who you're meant to be

with. Of course, that's going to be conflicting, yeah.

And ultimately, that led to chronic depression,

a lot of anxiety, constantly questioning myself, getting my

experience and for I was in that relationship for five years, and

three out of those five years, even before I got married, I was

questioning if this was the right path for me, and I kept

like at that point, I didn't know how to trust my intuition.

I didn't know how to listen to my inner voice. I just knew that

something felt really off, and I thought there was something

wrong with me. Like, why can't I just be happy with this? I have

everything that I should have, like, I've checked all the

boxes. Like, why am I so unhappy? What's wrong with me?

Oh, my God, can we pause here? Because I feel like

so many women are gonna relate. Like, chronic depression,

chronic anxiety. I think you had, like, autoimmune diseases

on time,

autoimmune diseases. I had digestive

issues. I had eczema and skin issues. Yes, our body is my body

was holding on. My body couldn't lose weight, even though I was

eating really healthy and working out.

Yeah, this is so important, because I know that

so many women listening struggle with all of these things and

like, you go to the doctor and they're like, here's some

medication just numb your pain and your pleasure, rather than

like, Wait, what are you doing? What are you saying yes to

that's actually so out of alignment. We're not taught.

We're just taught to suck it up, push it down and and move

forward anyways. And all of these symptoms were a result of

you going against your own truth without knowing it. That's so

important.

And I didn't have language for it. I didn't have

words for it. And ultimately, the only places that I was

really telling the truth was in my therapy sessions and in my

journal and whenever I would go on a yoga retreat, I got

certified as a yoga instructor back in 2014 which was around

the time that I was in this inner turmoil. And anytime that

I would get on my mat or get away from like my day to day

life, I would just cry, and I would just feel all the pain

that I was feeling inside, because I didn't feel like I

could be honest. Being honest meant I would be hurting the

people that I loved and that I cared about, and that was my

biggest fear, and that was my priority at the time, was making

sure that I didn't hurt or disappoint the people that I

cared about, and that was a higher priority for me, until

the pain became so loud and my body and my soul were speaking

to me and screaming at me to the point where I was like, I cannot

keep going this direction. If I keep going this direction, I'm

not going to be happy, and it's going to keep getting worse, and

I'm going to end up being married with kids and feel

trapped in this life. That's not true for me, and eventually I.

Had to get to that point, and this was through a lot of

introspection, a lot of meditation, journaling, therapy,

coaching, doing all the things where eventually I sat with

myself and was like, okay, am I willing to choose myself? Am I

willing to listen to the part of me that's trying to get my

attention, that knows that this isn't right for me, and am I

willing to do that at any cost, like, even if it feels like I'm

dying because I'm afraid that I'm going to be cast out from

the tribe, like, can I be okay with that? And it took me

building a lot of resilience, a lot of sovereignty, a lot of

self trust, a lot of self love, to be like no matter what, I'm

going to be okay and I'm going to be better off. My life is

going to be more magical. My life is going to be more

expansive. I'm going to get to receive the type of love and

connection that my soul is craving. And the only way to do

that is by listening to this inner voice.

Yeah, that's so true. And as you're sharing your

story and talking, I'm just seeing like the good girl's

entire existence is for everybody else and not so she's

living everyone else's life, meanwhile they got their own

life. Like, isn't it crazy how deep that programming runs, and

how many women make massive life choices to not let down other

people. Meanwhile, other people do not care like they care for a

minute, they care for a day, a week, a month, or your family,

I'm sure. And I would love to hear more about their their

journey of shifting as you shifted. But it's like other

people are. They're slaying their own dragons. They're

dealing with their own sacrificing, in their own

projections, in their own pain. They got their own life. Like,

if we each get one, and it's so wild that, you know, we're so

deeply programmed to to put everyone else first, and to make

our choices based on not wanting to let anyone else down, which

is impossible anyways.

And the conclusion that I got to was like, even if

I try and make everyone else happy like I can't, and it's

actually not my responsibility to hold that for everyone else.

No, because then who's living your life like it's

just like abandoned ship. We just abandon our own ship to

not, like, have anyone else be sail it alone. Meanwhile, our

ship is just like floating out in the sea by itself.

Like, yeah, yeah. And another thing that was

really potent at that time that I remember, like talking to my

therapist about, was this, this truth that me not being honest

is actually harming people more than it's helping them. And me

being in a marriage where I was halfway out the door and not

fully able to show up and adore this person and love this person

in the way that he deserved to be loved that was actually more

hurtful, like it was selfish, like I'm gonna abandon myself

and I'm going to pretend that I'm this person, because I want

to receive your love. I don't want upset with me. I don't want

you to be mad at me. I don't want to lose you, so I'm gonna

do this. But that's not that's not love, that's not true.

Meanwhile, the guy gets the woman who doesn't want

to have sex with him, or isn't attracted or isn't, you know,

like it when he could actually be with someone who's aligned

and, oh, my God, it's it's so crazy to think one of my

favorite memes I've ever seen was people pleasers are the

biggest liars of all.

Like we straight up lie constantly, lie, we

withhold our truth, we pretend everything's fine, and it's like

people can actually feel that that's not the case. Yeah, you

don't even have to say it. Like people can feel it totally Yeah.

And so yeah, to come back to, like, my how my parents

responded to it. I mean, ultimately, they went through

their own grieving process. And, like, it was really hard for

them. They were really good friends with my ex husband's

parents. They would go to movies together without us. We would

all have dinner together, almost, you know, definitely on

the holidays, but sometimes more often than not, and they were

very invested in this picture perfect marriage that their

daughter had created. And it meant something to them, in

society, in their community, to be proud of their daughter in

this way. And so it was definitely a really challenging

process, but I will give so much credit to my parents that no

matter how hard it was, like they really did show up for me

with unconditional support, and they loved me through that

process, and ultimately, like they don't want me to be in pain

and they want me to be happy. And so that, to me, was like the

deeper underlying truth that it came out of it was like, yeah,

they could have disowned me, and they could have been so

embarrassed that they didn't want to, like be associated with

me, but they're my parents, and they love me, and I think the

maybe even the next challenging conversation that I had to have

with them, and this is like a framework that I teach is for.

First, it's about like being honest with self and revealing

your own truth, and actually have like, a free ritual that I

can share with your your listeners on like, how do you

actually excavate and connect with your own inner truth? And

then the next thing is speaking your truth and sharing your

truth with others, which means that you have to have courageous

conversations. And then the third is expressing your truth

in the world. And so the story that I'm going to tell you is

about speaking your truth. And so it was about a year after I

got divorced, and I had kind of started dating again, and it was

actually my 30th birthday, and I went out to dinner with my

parents, and I knew I wanted to have this conversation with them

that was probably going to be the hardest conversation that I

would ever have with them. And the conversation was and I

literally waited the entire evening. I felt super nervous. I

waited until the server brought the check to the table to be

able to say, hey, there's something I want to talk to you

about. And I sat across from my parents, these people who have

supported me my entire life, who have dedicated their lives to

like me, living on the path that they thought was best for me.

And I sat across from them and I said, you know, I'm going to

start dating again. And the truth is that I don't know if

I'm going to marry someone who's Jewish, and my values are around

personal growth, my values are around spirituality. My values

are around kindness, around health and wellness, like these

are things that are deeply important to me that I've

discovered. And you know, it's likely, or it's possible, that I

won't marry or date someone Jewish, and I know that this

feels really hard for you to hear because that's really

important to you, but I'm asking for your support like I get that

this is not what you want from me, and I'm asking for your

support because I don't want this to stand in the way of our

family, and I don't want this stand in the way of me having a

relationship with you, and it was really hard. I mean, my dad

was pretty much, like, silent for the rest of the time, and I

could see he was like, in pain and processing. And my mom was

like, Well, can you Why can't you be with someone who's Jewish

and also values those things and like, why don't you want to be

with someone who's Jewish? And.