On this episode we talk to Harriet Burrows, a manager at GateOne, who was recently awarded the Most Influential Woman in Executive Coaching. In this podcast episode, she shares her journey into executive coaching and her passion for making a difference in the field.

Join us as Harriet explores the way coaches can support leadership initiatives within organisations. She shares a process she uses that involves mastering coaching skills and self-awareness, listening actively to clients, and understanding your own reactions as a coach. On this episode she emphasises the importance of active listening and understanding both the client's context and one's own internal dialogue during coaching sessions.

Harriet's future goals include making GateOne the go-to partner for coaching during transformational change and influencing FTSE 100 companies to lead impactful change programs. She also plans to continue her journey of learning and exposure to different coaching approaches and perspectives.

Hi everyone, and welcome on today's episode of Coaching in Focus.

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I'm your host, Joseph Reck, and

I am joined by Harriet Burrows,

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who is a manager at GateOne.

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How are you doing,

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Harriet Burrows: Harriet?

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Hi, Joe, I'm well, thanks.

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How are you?

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Good.

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Joseph Grech: I'm doing really

well and excited for our

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conversation today as well.

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Me too.

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So a little bit about Harriet, uh,

and the type of work that you do.

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So first of all, GateOne is

an award winning digital and

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business transformational.

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Consultancy.

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And talking about awards, we're here

to celebrate your very recent award

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as well, winning the Most Influential

Woman in Executive Coaching and the

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Annual Influential Businesswoman Awards.

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So first things first,

congratulations, Ariadne.

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Harriet Burrows: Thank you.

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I'm conscious it's a bit of a mouthful.

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Joseph Grech: I know, I know, I

had to look at it to make sure

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that I get every single word right.

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How does it feel, you know, winning that

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Harriet Burrows: award?

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Honestly, I am so humbled to

have, to have won the award.

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I got into coaching by working with

some absolutely brilliant coaches

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and to now be considered one of

those influential coaches is a

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real pinch myself moment for me.

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I do this role because I love to see the

difference that it makes for other people

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and being recognized for that is amazing.

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So no, really proud, really

humble and I'm really happy.

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It's

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Joseph Grech: brilliant and

it's inspirational as well.

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I think for individuals who are

entering into coaching or people who

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perhaps are thinking about coaching

as a career, it's great to see that

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there are awards like this out there.

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How did you find out about it?

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Was it, was it a surprise?

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What

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Harriet Burrows: happened?

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Yeah, so I got an email basically saying

you've been nominated for this award.

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Um, can you pull together

a bit of a submission?

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So I pulled together a submission, some

sort of some client testimonials, et

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cetera, but to this day, I still do not

know who nominated me in the first place.

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So thank you to whoever

that person or people were.

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And then there was an awards panel

who sort of judged the nomination.

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And then I found out, and yeah, it was.

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It was over the means,

surprised, but over the means.

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Joseph Grech: Well, very well

deserved, very well deserved.

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So let's find out a little bit more

about you, and a little bit more

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about the type of work that you do

in executive and leadership coaching.

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That has led also to

you winning this award.

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Maybe you mentioned that

you work with other coaches.

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Tell us a bit more about your

development as an executive coach.

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How did that come about?

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Harriet Burrows: Yeah, absolutely.

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So I sort of came into the exec

coaching world by working with some

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executive coaches, and I was actually

having some coaching myself, and we

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were really exploring, um, what is my

purpose and what are my, my values?

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And for me, I've got three core

values, and that is Influence,

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exposure, and making a difference.

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So influence is all about the ability

to influence people, influence

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projects, programs, outcomes.

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Exposure is about having exposure to

different types of people, different ways

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of thinking, different organizations,

and just feeling like every day.

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I'm learning something new and making

a difference is really feeling that

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what I do has a positive impact

on people or outcomes around me.

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And as I was explore, exploring

this with my coach, I was sort

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of looking at the conversation.

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I was thinking.

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I want to do what you do.

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How do I, how do I do this?

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And it was a bit of a light bulb moment.

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And I started to engage in network

with other coaches and really

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thought, you know, this is my passion.

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But to be honest with you, Joe, I thought

it was a sort of thing that I needed to

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have been a director or an executive in

order to be taken seriously in the field.

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But I had some brilliant mentors

that went, no, Harry, you've

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got the skillset, you've got the

relevant experience, just go for it.

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I'm not going to say it was a super

easy ride and if it's all right, I'll

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share a bit of a story because I think

it's really powerful for people as

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they're embarking on this journey.

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So I was about three months into

my coaching qualification and I was

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studying in every sort of spare minute

I had and I went to a coffee shop with

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my coaching book and it was Excellence

in Coaching by Jonathan Passmore.

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And I was just sat there having my coffee

and this gentleman came over to me and he

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said, Oh, what's that book you're reading?

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And I said, Oh, it's,

um, it's a coaching book.

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I'm studying to be an executive coach.

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And he turned around to me and

he said, my friend's an executive

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coach, but he's a managing director.

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Why would anybody listen to you?

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And in that moment, I had a real sort of.

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Life direction of travel, shall we say,

and I thought I can either listen to

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this person and say, right, you know,

all those initial thoughts I had a

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true, and I shouldn't go down this path.

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Or I can say, do you know what?

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One day, hopefully I'll bump into you

in a coffee shop again, having been

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an executive coach and be able to

say, actually, no, do you know what?

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I knew that this was the

direction I wanted to go on and

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I know that it was right for me.

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So I think to, to people listening,

just stick with your gut.

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Like there will be people that say,

you know, do you have the experience?

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But it's not about

necessarily your experience.

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It's about how you approach coaching

and how you create that really powerful

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coachy experience for our clients.

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Joseph Grech: And thanks for

sharing that, because I think that

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is such a powerful story, and it

resonates with a lot of people.

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Myself, I still remember when I first

started coaching, I was fairly young.

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I was, I think, 26, uh, 27.

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I was quite a young coach

as well, and this is...

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Quite some time ago.

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I'm a little bit older than that now

I hate to admit but I remember people

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used to ask me all the time How old are

you and at the beginning I used to lie

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and I used to say I was 35 or 36 And

they'd look at me and they say Oh, okay.

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I didn't realize.

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Um, and there was a shift in me

at the point where I thought I

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need to stop trying to pretend to

be older or a different person.

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And I still remember the moment when

I, I, I started, when people asked

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me, I would just say my real age

and it was much more comforting.

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And like you, I thought, well.

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Like modestly, I was like, I'm good at

what I do if, you know, if I'm not the

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right coach for you, if this partnership

is not there, then it's not there.

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That's how you're viewing

this relationship.

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And there is sadly this overall

kind of more broader understanding

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of coaching as being a more senior

person giving advice to a more junior

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person, which is, which is much

more mentoring rather than coaching.

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And actually, you know, we've got.

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All different types of coaching, parallel

coaching, reverse coaching, like, and the

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experience can get in the way of great

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Harriet Burrows: coaching.

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Yeah.

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And, and it's really interesting

because I've explored this, um, with

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some of my clients when we sort of

finished our, our coaching partnerships.

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And a few of them have said, actually,

I think it's really powerful that

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you're not a director or you're not an

executive because I don't feel that I'm

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competing with you or you're comparing

your experience to mine in I know

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that you are fully here to serve me.

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as the client.

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And there isn't that voice in the back

of their head saying, Oh, well, what

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does Harriet do when she did this?

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It is purely there centered on them.

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And that's not disrespecting anyone

that is an executive or director at all.

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It's just different styles and approaches.

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And like you said, it

works for some clients.

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And it doesn't work for others, but

that's the nature of coaching anyway.

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So

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Joseph Grech: were you already

working in leadership at that time?

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How did you, you know, become part

of that leadership development

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team and coaching team?

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Yeah,

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Harriet Burrows: absolutely.

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So when I started my coaching

qualification, I was the head

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of leadership and culture

for rail infrastructure in

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the Department of Transport.

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And I was, I was doing a lot of leadership

coaching really without realizing.

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So I was doing a lot of the

facilitation of their strategic.

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board meetings, but also looking

at where are the team today?

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Where do they need to be tomorrow and

how do I help them on that journey?

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But I really wanted the qualification

behind me to add the credibility, but

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also to add to my sort of suite of tools.

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I worked on Crossrail,

which is now the Elizabeth.

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Um, line to the underground network

in London for any, for anyone that

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doesn't know London, um, too well.

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And I had a really great experience

there, um, where I was heading up their

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supplier engagement, which was basically

working with managing directors and

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CEOs of all of our key supply chains,

and it just gave me great exposure to

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individual and team leadership, and

especially in the infrastructure world,

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the importance of bringing leaders

together to collaborate, to actually

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make that meaningful difference.

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which pulls me back to my

values and why it really aligned

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to me in the first place.

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Joseph Grech: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So you've really held on to your values

to support yourself and identifying

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what type of work you want to do,

how you want to shape your career.

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Exactly.

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And is that part of, I know you co

founded the Women and Friends group.

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Was that in the rail industry?

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Did that come about from an

exploration of your values?

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Harriet Burrows: Yeah.

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So probably a bit of both, to be honest.

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So like I've sort of alluded

to, a lot of my career has been

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spent in the rail industry.

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So I started my career at TFL.

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I then went for a company called Arup,

which are architecture and engineering,

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um, moved to cross rail and most recently,

um, for the department of transport

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and within rail, only 16 are women.

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And that decreases to 1

percent at the C suite level.

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And therefore for me, what was

really important, especially earlier

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on in my career was the ability to

look at and go, that could be me.

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And there was a real shortfall

of the ability to do that.

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And as a result, there wasn't the

sort of the questions, the corridor

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conversations around how can we

make it possible to challenge this

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statistic and make this change.

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So alongside my colleague Hannah

Cowick, we set up women and

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friends to basically create a safe.

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space and a supportive network

for women to come together to

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have those conversations, but also

to see the art of the possible.

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So we had people like Wendy Morton,

who was the rail minister at the time,

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come and speak to us about her journey.

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We'd hear from other inspirational

women, but also go out on site because

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typically women in the rail industry

are in the sort of the office.

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roles rather than actually

experiencing the vast majority of the

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workforce that are actually out on

the track, out at the depots, etc.

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So providing women with the

opportunity to see what else is

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possible was also really, really

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Joseph Grech: powerful.

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Yeah, I can hear that in your voice,

even as you're telling me about it.

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I can, I can even see

you get excited about it.

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And how was that received?

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Harriet Burrows: Really well.

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Honestly, the Buzz that we created

in that room is something that I will

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never forget and is something that I

want to carry with me no matter what

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role I'm in, what company I'm in.

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Because I think giving people the power

to have a voice in a safe space, it's,

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I mean, it's like coaching, isn't it?

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It's feeling that you're listened

to and feeling that, you know, you

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can ask the silly question, you can

suggest the outrageous idea, but

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actually no one's going to judge you.

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We're just going to be there to support

you and help you on that journey.

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Yeah,

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Joseph Grech: it's very

similar to coaching, right?

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The idea of you creating the space and

seeing what happens within that space.

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Exactly, exactly.

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And what other leadership coaching

work have you, have you done or are you

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Harriet Burrows: doing now?

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Yeah, so I currently work for

an organisation called Gate One,

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who, as you said, sort of focus on

complex transformation programmes.

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And I help to lead their leadership

development and coaching service, which

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essentially derives from the fact that.

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Often in big transformational change

programs, we focus on, you know, the

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digital transformation, the program

management, you know, mergers and

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acquisitions, the marketing, but actually

leaders have such a disproportionate

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impact on the success of change programs

based on how they lead themselves, they

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lead others and they lead the change.

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So at GateOne we operate in a framework

which is leading self, leading others,

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leading change to really support leaders

as they lead the transformation journeys.

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From a change perspective, we can't

lead change without being influenced

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from our past experiences, who we

are, whether we fundamentally agree

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with the change, you know, even at the

leadership level, it can be done to you.

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You might not, it might not,

you know, be derived from your.

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ideas, et cetera.

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So part of the role that I do at the

moment is working with individuals and

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teams to really help them navigate that

complex transformational change journey.

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And often with leaders, given the

environment that we currently operate

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in changes, the constant changes

happening every day, and it's a

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core part of who and how they lead.

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So whether that's, you know,

individual coaching, team coaching,

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or really embedding myself as

part of these, wider programs.

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Being that support network and

that challenging critical friend

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to leaders to help think about

how much is my past influencing

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how much I'm leading this change?

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Do I have the right toolkits to manage

myself first to effectively lead others?

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And how do I create a collective

high performing leadership team?

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Because, you know, often these

people are managing, you know,

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000 people, and there's a lot of

people looking up for that guidance.

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And we, like, really strongly believe that

you need to lead yourself first before you

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can lead others and lead organisations.

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Joseph Grech: Yeah, the importance of

role modelling those values and attitudes

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that you want other people to see, right?

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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So what does a typical day to

day look like for you at work?

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Harriet Burrows: It completely depends.

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Like I said, we differ from one

to one team programs, but just

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yesterday, if I use that example,

um, we were supporting a leadership

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team of around seven individuals

and we just had a 90 minute session.

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And when I asked individuals to check

into the room, They were nervous,

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they were overwhelmed, they felt

really uncomfortable about the change.

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It was the first time that we'd come

together as a collective leadership group.

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And what we really focused on is within

this change that you're operating in,

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what excites you, what worries you and

what is everything that's on your mind.

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And then over the next 90 minutes using

really simple tools like, you know, the

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circle of influence, control and concern,

helping leaders to really navigate, okay,

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What can I control and influence and

how do I as an individual need to manage

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what's in my circle of concern based on

my responses, what I need to manage my

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resilience, how I need to manage myself.

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So when we have people checking out.

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They come in with, you know, so much

in their mind about all these different

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complex elements of the change.

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And then by the time they leave the

room, they say, right, these are my

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clear steps about what I can control.

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These are my networks that I can

influence to help to navigate the

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change and steer it in the direction.

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And actually, do you know what?

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This really concerns me and it does have

an emotional impact on me, but I now know

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the steps I need to take to manage that.

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to be able to be that role model that

can stand up at a plenary in front of,

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you know, 10, 000 people and really

believe in the change that I'm, I'm

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trying to see in the organization.

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Joseph Grech: So there seems to be quite

a lot of actual coaching work as part of

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your day to day job as well, I'm hearing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And is that like, you mentioned like team

coaching, is there also one to one work?

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How is that balanced?

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How does that work for you?

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Harriet Burrows: Yeah, one to one as well.

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So often, um, GateOne partner with,

you know, big change programs.

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So there might be, you know, 20 people

supporting a big client, but actually...

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We are part of what the leadership

development and coaching team do is offer

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executive coaching to the executives,

to the senior leadership team one

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to one, because often navigating and

leading change can be really lonely.

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I mean, I'm sure people on this podcast

before have said it's really lonely

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at the top, and actually, when you're

making some of these really challenging

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decisions, when you're paving the future

of the organization, Having that critical

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friend in that safe space to do that one

to one coaching with to sense check your

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ideas, to make sure that it sticks true

to your values, but also the strategic

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context of the organization is a really

powerful differentiator for how we help

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clients to actually deliver programs.

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And selfishly for me.

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I love coaching, so it's sort

of the best part of what I do.

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Joseph Grech: Did you know that at Become,

we offer a number of different coach

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training programs to people just like you?

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If you're new to coaching, there is a

Level 1 Diploma in Integrative Coaching.

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If you've been coaching for a while,

or perhaps you're already an ACC coach,

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then we have the Advanced Diploma

in Integrative Coaching, which leads

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all the way to the PCC credential.

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We also have a number of CPD

programs and certificates,

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including mentoring and supervision.

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To find out more, go to tubicam.

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org or just check the show notes.

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Tell us a bit about your

coaching style, maybe.

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What sets your coaching style

apart perhaps from other coaches?

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Harriet Burrows: Yeah.

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So it's a bit of an interesting one, and

I probably won't answer your question

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directly in the respect that I'm

going to say, I don't have one style.

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The core thing that flows throughout

all of my coaching conversations

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is a very conversational style.

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And the reason for that is I really

want to make sure that my clients

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feel in a safe supportive environment.

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Yes, I will challenge my clients to

get to the goals that we're trying to

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achieve, but actually making sure that

we create this conversational approach

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that feels like a partnership is where

I believe the best outcomes can come.

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I think the other thing that sort of.

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I guess differentiates or tailors

my style is I spend a lot of time

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researching the context in which

executives in particular operate.

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Cause I think specifically the exec level,

you need to understand their context,

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their challenges, the culture of the

organization that they're working with.

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To make sure, you know, these people

are time poor, so they really need

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to maximize the benefits of coaching.

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So how can you ensure that you understand

their context and you can bring yourself

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up to that level so that when you enter

that partnership, there isn't that

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perception that they need to upskill

you or educate you within their world.

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Nor have you got that background

conversation going on going.

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What does that mean?

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I'm not really sure what

they're talking about there.

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It puts you on the front foot

to really having a productive,

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meaningful conversation.

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Joseph Grech: Yeah.

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So you kind of go into the room

already speaking their language,

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understanding some of the wider

concerns, organizational pressures.

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Harriet Burrows: Exactly.

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But I think a key, and this was a

massive part of my learning journey,

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and the real important thing that

you've got to think about going into

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the session is understand their context.

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But don't have a guide for where

the conversation is going to go.

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Because that's where as a coach

we stop operating as a coach.

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So, you know, if I was going, Oh, I know

this is happening in their environment.

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I think we should speak about that.

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No, that's not what we are

there to do as a coach.

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But it's having that understanding

to help guide them on that journey.

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Um, based on the journey that they

want to go on in that session.

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Joseph Grech: It's so refreshing to

hear that because we do get as a.

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coach training provider.

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We, we train coaches and we get a

lot of questions around, um, what

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techniques, what models do you use?

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Uh, what would you train me on?

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It's quite difficult to explain the

new ones that there are the models and

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techniques, but actually holding them

too close or just kind of thinking

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this is what needs to happen in the

coaching session actually takes you away.

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from being the

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Harriet Burrows: coach.

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And I think there's a comfort thing

early doors when you're training

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to be a coach because you have

all those thoughts in your head

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going, you know, am I good at this?

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Am I serving the client?

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And having a model that you can stick

to provides you with that confidence

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that it's been done before, it's been

written about, I've been taught it.

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And actually putting the model down

can be really scary in the first couple

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of, um, client scenarios that you have.

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You're on your own, but actually that's

where the most powerful conversation

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happens because the client you're

truly actively listening rather than

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thinking, when can I embed the model

or when can I ask this question

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that I've thought of in advance?

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It's a really great question.

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Yeah.

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Joseph Grech: Yeah.

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It's similar, I suppose, to, I like

sometimes thinking about coaching

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conversations and when they're at best.

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When there are natural,

they flow, they're simple.

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It's like having a conversation.

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I'm not saying they're exactly the

same, but it's like when you're

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having a conversation with a good

friend and that time kind of, you kind

397

of think, where has the hour gone?

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Because you're so in the conversation,

you're collaborating, working

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together rather than thinking.

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I've got the next question to ask.

401

I need to bring in this model,

which then makes it quite clunky.

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Exactly.

403

So thinking actually in relation to, we

mentioned new coaches now, is there any

404

advice that you would like to share with

perhaps aspiring coaches and even leaders

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who, who might want to use more coaching

in their work or develop as executive

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Harriet Burrows: coaches?

407

Yeah, of course.

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So I was reflecting on this in

advance and I thought, you know,

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what would I tell myself if I

was starting this journey again?

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And I think there's,

there's three things for me.

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There's learn, listen, and learn again.

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Learn in the first instance is

sort of broken up into two parts.

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So yes, there's learn the models,

there's learning how to be a coach,

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learning, as we said, the difference

between coaching and mentoring.

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Really understanding, you know,

what is coaching and what does

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good coaching look like, but really

importantly, learn about yourself.

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So learn who you are, learn your

values, learn your approach and, and

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what feels right to you, because that

is going to be really prevalent when

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you start that practical coaching.

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And that takes me into listen.

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So, the most important thing, I think,

when you coach someone is about listening.

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So, actively listening.

423

And this can be verbal to what

they need from that session and

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tying it back to their goals.

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So, listening to what they

need and responding to that.

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Just as importantly,

listening to yourself.

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So what is that background conversation

that's going on in your mind as

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you're coaching a client or what does

your gut say and try and park it in

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that session to make sure that it's

not influencing the conversation

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and you're not serving yourself.

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But then circle back to learn.

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So then you learn about why did

I feel like that in that session?

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What drove that from my own personal

experiences and learn about yourself

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to make sure that you've got the right

tools and approaches and use supervision

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to make sure that in that room you

are fully present for the client.

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I think one of the best things

about coaching is it's not static.

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It will always change.

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You will always be learning.

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So.

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Often, um, you know, you can hear

people and I think there's an article on

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your website about it that is coaching

is so much more than the grow model.

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You can't just learn the grow

model and then be a coach.

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It is constant learning over time

about yourself, about others, about

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what's happening in the field.

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And I think, as I said, you

learn at the beginning, you get

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your core skills, you listen.

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You understand how you feel,

what's happening with the

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client, and then you learn again.

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And I think that is a continuous cycle.

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So we can never get too comfortable

as coaches that we know at all,

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because I'm a firm believer that

that just will never be the case.

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Joseph Grech: Yeah, that's so nicely,

I've never thought about, about

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this from that kind of lens of, you

know, learn, listen, learn again.

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It's new in your

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Harriet Burrows: program, Joe.

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It's,

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Joseph Grech: it's, it's very much.

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So as we're talking about it, I thought,

well, people go on to the diploma and

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we learn the different ways of coaching,

the ethics of coaching, how to coach.

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Then we do the individual

feedback and mentoring where we're

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developing your self awareness.

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You're listening, not just to, uh,

the client and the sessions, but also

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to yourself and we support with that.

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And then we learn again because it's

further mentoring along the road

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where you, you're where you kind of

go back to it and refine and develop

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yourself and continue that process.

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So, um, I might have to

steal that, uh, or borrow it.

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So as we're reaching the end of our

podcast today, I'm excited to find

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out a bit more about your future

as well and what kind of goals and

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aspirations that you have for yourself.

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Harriet Burrows: Yeah, absolutely.

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So I think it's, it's a common thread

through this whole conversation to me,

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what really rings true and what I really

need to align to is making a difference.

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And in terms of what that looks like for

coaching, where I am at the moment, I

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want gate one to be the go to partner for

coaching through transformational change.

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I want to be able to influence, you know,

FTSE 100 companies to make sure that.

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You know, let's be honest, the impact

that these companies have on society

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and the way in which we live is huge.

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So to be able to have a part in

leading and helping leaders to

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actually lead those change programs

is a massive ambition of mine to help

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to be seen as that sort of partner.

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for those organizations.

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The other big thing is

just to keep learning.

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I love conversations like this.

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I love meeting other coaches.

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I like to be, and it goes back to

my exposure point at the beginning.

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I like to be exposed to different ways

of thinking, different approaches.

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So in terms of what's, what's next

for Harriette, I'm really conscious,

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you know, this is, it's just the

start and to be awarded influential,

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you know, executive coaches.

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Amazing.

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And it has just given me the springboard

to go, this is really what I want to do.

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And this is what I want to

continue doing in my career.

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So continue to have exposure to different

people, different clients, hopefully

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help get one to be the partner for,

you know, these big transformational

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change programs that change the way in

which we live as, as consumers as well.

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And who knows in the future, but yeah,

just really keen to continue this

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journey and keep learning and keep

speaking to people like you as well.

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I'm

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Joseph Grech: sure, I'm sure you will.

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I'm sure you will.

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I mean, this is just the start.

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It's a celebration of the start.

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Exactly.

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And I, and I very much look

forward to seeing how you develop

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in the profession, you know.

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Um, so once again, well done and

huge celebrations for the award

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and, and thank you for sparing half

an hour of your, of your time to

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be, to be on the podcast with me.

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Harriet Burrows: No problem.

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It was great to be here.

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Thanks, Joe.

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Joseph Grech: Thanks,

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Harriet Burrows: Harriet.