Episode 7: Truth

Speaker: 00:00:00

Truth Truth

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Ready, go.

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Just be, like, as awkward as possible.

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Truth.

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Mm.

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We like this one.

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Stacey, you're, you're up, right?

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Yep.

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By the way.

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Hello.

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I meant Sloane.

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Fine.

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It's both.

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I've been feeling very

Stacey lately, so it's fine.

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Oh, good.

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Sloane might go away, or she's

some future version of myself

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Oh, nice There we go.

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Welcome back to Three Rebel Souls.

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What's up?

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Here we go.

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Hello.

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We're back.

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How's everybody doing today?

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I'm good, I guess.

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I don't know.

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Real answers only here.

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Yeah.

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Um, well, uh, one, I'm tired,

and two, my throat is killing me.

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Mm-hmm.

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So I don't know.

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I don't usually get, um,

allergies, but I mean, you know,

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I am older now, so who knows?

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You know.

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But- Mm … everything is blooming.

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I think that's why.

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There's a lot going on

in the air right now.

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Yeah.

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I'm feeling the same.

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I've been feeling like kinda

stuffy and- Mm … cough,

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cough and, uh, bleh all week.

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So I'm, I'm feeling the same.

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A little bit run down today,

but we're gonna make it work

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How about you, Sloane?

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Um, it's been an

interesting couple weeks, so

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some old patterns coming up that

I- Yeah … haven't seen in a while

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Not exactly happy to see

them, but understanding

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that- Yeah … I, they needed, I think, um

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real-world reflection to

understand some internal

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struggles I've been going through.

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So yeah.

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Uh, it was very effective,

let's put it that way.

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Yeah.

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You're right.

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Especially with that Mercury

retrograde in Pisces.

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Crap.

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Full moon.

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Oh, that's over now, so.

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Yeah, thank God.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I feel like the full moon

was really intense last week.

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I, that I think was another

reason I've been tired all week.

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I think it just absolutely kicked my ass.

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Yeah.

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We're recovering.

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I slept till 7:00 yesterday.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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That's long for you.

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I, you know.

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You know.

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That's really late for you.

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Last, I didn't even sleep that late last

weekend when we stayed up extra late.

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That's right.

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Exactly.

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All right.

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Well, today we're diving

into our value of truth.

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Yes.

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So let me read our definition of that.

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Um, truth, we speak it even

when it shakes the room.

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We believe that truth and integrity

are acts of love, especially with

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the people we care about most.

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We hold each other and

ourselves accountable.

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There's no pretending here,

just real talk, real hearts, and

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the courage to say the thing.

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Yeah.

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And that's a little preview

there 'cause courage is up next.

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So- Yeah.

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But for now, truth.

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So- They're all intertwined.

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Yeah.

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Uh, uh, always.

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Values are always intertwined.

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Mm-hmm.

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Um, so what does truth mean to you?

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I think this one is interesting.

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Um, when I think back to like

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conditioning and like

what we're told, right?

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Like we're told- Mm-hmm

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to

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Like, we, we were raised on these

little things, like honesty is the

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best policy and blah, blah, blah.

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But I don't feel like honesty

was ever really modeled, right?

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Because- Yeah

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there was all these social niceties

that we were also conditioned to.

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Like- Mm-hmm … even just

how we started this episode.

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How are you feeling today?

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Good, I guess.

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Like, no, no, no, don't give me that shit.

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How are you really feeling today?

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Right.

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Real answers only.

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I only want the truth.

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I don't want your canned response.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I think there's, there's

that, but then there's also, like,

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we could go, we could pull on a

lot of different threads here.

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But I think the way that, like,

I experienced friendship growing

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up was always, you know, always

having your friend's back and

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telling them what they wanna hear.

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When, you know, my experience of

friendship now is the people I value most

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are the people who tell me the truth.

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I don't wanna hear, I

don't wanna hear, like…

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I don't need you to

puff me up if I'm wrong.

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Tell me I'm wrong.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Like, so it's, I think, I think

that we used to, we were sort of,

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like, taught contradicting things,

and that's been a lot to unlearn

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and try to figure out, like-

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that

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Truth is what I, I guess maybe, maybe

the amount of times that I've been, I

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felt like I've been lied to or deceived

is what made me value truth so much

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Deceived I'll, I'll get off

my soapbox for the moment.

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Let someone else speak.

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Well, I mean, that's what you just

said, like being deceived, but we

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were deceived as children too, right?

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By being told, like, you tell the

truth, but then lie here or there.

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You know?

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Like, so- Little white lies … right.

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So what, which I can't fucking stand.

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Like, I can't stand little white lies

because what's the fucking point?

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What's the fucking point?

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Just fucking say it.

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If it's something so minor, just

fucking say it, 'cause if you're-

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Yeah … willing to lie about something

so stupid, like, I get really…

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I mean, I, I'm already going

off the rails here 'cause I-

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can't fucking stand lies.

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Like, I can't fucking stand lying.

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And I'm not gonna say that I

haven't lied myself, right?

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Like, we all have, but

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I don't know.

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I just feel like just

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being truthful, then you're able to

deal with things in the moment and

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with what they are than having to deal

with a lie and then the truth later on.

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Mm-hmm.

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That, that makes it so much worse.

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Mm-hmm.

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So, um, yeah.

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Yeah For me, I like, I, I feel like I had

to suppress truth so much my whole life.

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Mm-hmm.

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It's, it's also, um, a part of why I was

so angry when I was- Hmm … younger,

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'cause always having to suppress that, to

suppress it, and I'm like, "I'm gonna…"

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And then I would explode is the problem.

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Then I would explode, and then

y- I just let you have it,

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and it was not pretty, right?

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Because then I was telling you

all the truth and everything that

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you probably didn't wanna hear.

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Um, but- All at once.

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All at once.

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Exactly.

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Everything you told me to keep

in, I just let you have it.

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Um, and then, yeah, it didn't,

it did not come out, it did

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not come out so, uh, tactful.

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Sagittarius, not very tactful.

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Um, but I'm learning.

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Um, yeah, I don't know.

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I just-

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And, you know, I admit that.

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As much as I love truth,

it's not always easy to hear.

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Mm.

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Right?

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Like, it's not- No, it's

almost never easy to hear.

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Right.

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It's really, it's really not.

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But I, I'd rather, I'd rather

be uncomfortable for a minute

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with the truth than, um, I- Than

have to hear comfortable lies.

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Yeah.

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I li- being lied to angers me.

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It angers me, like, when I'm lied to.

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So just tell me the truth, 'cause I feel

like I might be angry for a minute, but

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it's gonna go away much quicker than if

it's just, if you just keep lying to me.

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Yeah, there's a compound effect- Yeah.

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Mm … of, like, repeated

lies or time that passes.

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Well, just like even when you- Mm

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even when you ask someone,

like, something silly and-

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They just give you a

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What they think you wanna hear Mm.

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Yeah Versus the truth.

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And it's something stupid, and I'm

like, "Oh my God," like, I know

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you're lying to me because I feel it.

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Mm.

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Right.

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I feel the lie.

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And so yeah, it's, it's frustrating.

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It's very frustrating for me.

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Um-

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But it's, like, again, it's difficult

for me to want to tell someone the truth

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as well because of that conditioning,

of being told not to, not to say

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anything, because it's another way of

hush, keep the peace, you know, that

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stupid bullshit that we were told.

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The performative stuff that-

Yeah … we've been talking about.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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So.

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Keep everybody comfortable.

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Right.

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But the performance

is, is in itself a lie.

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Correct.

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Mm.

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I think which is probably why it

feels like such a rub for me now,

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because you feel like you have

to, like, live this performance

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or put on a show for optics, and

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It's that much more

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I don't know, jarring now to be,

like, 'cause now I'm, like, I

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can see through it to your point.

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Like, why are you…

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Like, I can see that you're lying.

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Why are we lying about it, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Sloane, what about you?

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We know you like truth too.

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Oh, yeah.

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Well, honesty is one of my core value-

There you go … my personal core values.

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So, um, because, I mean, very similar to

what you've both already shared, right?

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Like, um

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people not being honest, and then it just

culminates in something painful usually.

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So I'm laughing because though I think

the flip side of that is my face is

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very expressive, so- Right … it's

almost impossible for me to lie

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because it's- Right … when I try

to lie, it's like written all over my

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face that, uh- Or, or not react when

someone's lying to me and I know it.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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Well, I have a, I have

a look for that too.

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Right.

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Well, we have a look for everything.

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Yeah.

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That's interesting.

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That's not true.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Are we gonna s- they'll do that or…

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I mean, I'm gonna let you show me

whatever you wanna show me, but, um,

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you're breaking something

when you're lying to me.

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Mm.

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And I've been thinking a lot about

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Simon Sinek and the difference

between being nice and being kind.

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Mm.

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Um, and being nice is

that performance, right?

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And being kind is being honest.

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But it's- Yeah … it's such…

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It's a…

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That's how we build…

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Oh my gosh, this is still Simon Sinek.

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That's how we build relationships, right?

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Like through conflict, through, um-

Yeah … honesty and building that trust.

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Like, if I can't trust you to be

honest with me, and vice versa,

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if I don't trust you enough to

be honest, that speaks volumes.

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Yeah.

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I love, I love that you say,

like, the whole, um, facing…

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I'm, I, I'm the same way.

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Like, I have a face.

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Like, I, I, I can't lie.

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Like, I have such a hard time lying

because I w- I give myself away.

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And the other part too is I don't wanna…

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I don't…

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Like, it's hard for me

to keep up with lies.

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Like, I can't keep it all straight.

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I can keep the truth straight- … but

the lies I can't keep straight.

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Yep.

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So that's why I'm not a good liar.

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Oh, yeah.

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So I'm just gonna tell you the truth.

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Yeah.

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For sure.

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I don't have to remember the truth.

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Exactly.

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It, it just is.

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Exactly, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's too much work

trying to remember lies.

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Well, 'cause you're just compound it.

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That's…

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And that's the one thing I

could never maintain anyway.

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It's like a, even a simple lie,

like, then you have to lie about

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the lie, and then you're lying

about the lying about the lying.

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And it's just like, oh, fuck this shit.

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Like, Right.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's a miracle I got

through the first one.

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I'm never gonna get

through the fourth one.

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Like, you're just gonna be like,

"When did you start lying?"

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You know?

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And then how damaging is

that to relationships, right?

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Like, so it's not just one lie.

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You've actually been lying

for h- this long about- Right.

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Mm-hmm … and it's just like, ugh.

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Even if it's- Nobody wants to feel that.

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Yeah.

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Even if, like, the, the initial lie

was something, like, really minor,

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but it turns- Exactly … into

something so much bigger.

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Yep.

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Like, like, totally unnecessary.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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I…

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We talk about this in some of the training

that I facilitate, because especially,

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like, in the realm of, like, leadership

or coaching, trust is the foundation

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of any, like, positive relationship.

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Regardless of whether it's a professional

relationship or a personal relationship-

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Mm-hmm … there has to be trust.

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And, um, and we talk all the time

about how trust is difficult to earn.

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Like, it's…

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Like, we say that it's gained

in inches and lost in miles.

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So it's like the compound effect of

lies or time that has passed since a

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lie before the truth is uncovered is

where you lose trust in miles, and

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then it's so hard to regain trust.

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And for me, it's like, uh, like we've

said this, Adriana, it's like once I've

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seen it, it's hard for me to unsee it.

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Yeah.

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Um, but what I, like, what I

still am practicing is that, like-

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Uh

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Being able to, like, set the right

boundaries that, like, preserve my

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peace and still give the other person

space to change if my trust has been

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betrayed, because that's, that's hard.

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Like, I would kind of want

that same, but it's hard.

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It's hard to practice because

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I don't know, I think trust is,

like, s- our most valuable currency.

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Yeah.

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And it's been a hard- All

right, before we go…

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Yeah.

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Oh, go ahead.

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And to trust, right?

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'Cause we're talking about honesty.

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So true.

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So, or truth, sorry.

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Not my core value.

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The Three Ripple Souls

value on, uh, truth.

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Oh my gosh, it's just,

like, stuck in my head now.

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Um, we'll make a note to

come back to trust- Yeah

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'cause that's huge.

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Um, so but speaking about truth,

like, when is it, like, easy?

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When it, when is truth easy?

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: 00:16:50

And when is it still- When there's

trust … really difficult?

361

: 00:16:55

Yeah.

362

: 00:16:58

Tell me more.

363

: 00:16:59

So it's, here's the thing.

364

: 00:17:00

I don't, I don't know if

it's, like, ever truly easy.

365

: 00:17:05

I think it gets easier with practice,

and it's easier in a relationship that

366

: 00:17:13

does have a good foundation of trust.

367

: 00:17:16

Um, or, like, in any dynamic that

does have a good foundation of trust.

368

: 00:17:21

But it's still not easy.

369

: 00:17:24

Like, it's a simple concept to

just tell the truth, but it's

370

: 00:17:28

not always easy to do, right?

371

: 00:17:33

Like, it's…

372

: 00:17:34

But I think I've, I think a big…

373

: 00:17:38

You talked about, like, the Simon

Sinek idea, like there's a difference

374

: 00:17:42

between being kind and being nice,

and nice is what we were taught.

375

: 00:17:47

Yeah.

376

: 00:17:47

But truth is always kind.

377

: 00:17:49

Yes.

378

: 00:17:49

And that's also, like,

a Brene Brown thing.

379

: 00:17:51

Like, the truth is always kind.

380

: 00:17:53

Uh, clear is kind, right?

381

: 00:17:54

Like, um, that's been a hard…

382

: 00:18:01

It's been a hard practice after a

lifetime of being conditioned to be nice.

383

: 00:18:05

Mm-hmm.

384

: 00:18:07

It's a hard thing to unlearn,

that, like, auto response or

385

: 00:18:11

that, like, fluffy version.

386

: 00:18:15

Yeah.

387

: 00:18:16

Yeah, 'cause it feels so unsafe, right?

388

: 00:18:18

Like, it's, uh, it's

always what we were taught-

389

: 00:18:22

That, right?

390

: 00:18:23

Like, it's not safe- Yeah … to be, to

be truthful, whether it's about- Yeah,

391

: 00:18:30

like we can't s- you can't say that.

392

: 00:18:31

Right.

393

: 00:18:32

You don't say that.

394

: 00:18:33

Right.

395

: 00:18:34

You don't talk- Yeah, yeah.

396

: 00:18:35

There's, like, a lot of niceties, again

397

: 00:18:42

But I can't, I can't, like, that sort

of like the disingenuous niceties give

398

: 00:18:49

me like a visceral reaction now Right.

399

: 00:18:51

Yeah Like, I, it gives me the ick.

400

: 00:18:53

Mm-hmm.

401

: 00:18:56

I'd rather feel

402

: 00:18:58

Like you said, the discomfort for a

minute of truth than like the ick of the

403

: 00:19:07

Inauthentic

404

: 00:19:09

Yeah.

405

: 00:19:10

I still feel like so many people

are not opening, opened, open to,

406

: 00:19:14

like, hearing- Oh, yeah … truth,

to having real truthful conversations

407

: 00:19:22

Because it's, it's hard Right, because

it requires, right, because someone

408

: 00:19:26

tells you- It requires vulnerability,

and that's hard And discomfort.

409

: 00:19:31

Yeah.

410

: 00:19:32

Totally, yeah.

411

: 00:19:32

And, and to be willing to look

at yourself when someone tells

412

: 00:19:35

you whatever's true for them.

413

: 00:19:38

But I also feel like it's, like, truth

is also a word that gets, maybe not truth

414

: 00:19:46

itself, but what people consider to be

truthful gets thrown around a lot, where,

415

: 00:19:53

like, um, let's say, uh, in a relationship

and someone's mad at you for whatever

416

: 00:20:01

reason, and they just wanna say, "Well, y-

you're a mean person," and whatever, just

417

: 00:20:08

because they didn't like something that

you said or whatever the situation was.

418

: 00:20:13

But it doesn't mean you actually

are a mean person, right?

419

: 00:20:17

But to them, well, it's

true and you're mean.

420

: 00:20:21

But is it true?

421

: 00:20:23

Are they really mean or you just

didn't like what the person said?

422

: 00:20:26

You know, because people say,

"Well, it's the truth" about so

423

: 00:20:29

many things that aren't really…

424

: 00:20:32

You know what I mean?

425

: 00:20:32

Do, am I getting my point across?

426

: 00:20:34

Great point, yes.

427

: 00:20:34

You're talking about opinion versus truth.

428

: 00:20:36

Yeah.

429

: 00:20:36

Right, yes.

430

: 00:20:37

Right.

431

: 00:20:37

Exactly.

432

: 00:20:38

Yes.

433

: 00:20:39

You know?

434

: 00:20:39

And so many people, it's like,

"Well, I'm telling you the truth.

435

: 00:20:41

I'm telling you the truth."

436

: 00:20:42

And it's like, but that's not really true.

437

: 00:20:43

As you see it.

438

: 00:20:44

Right.

439

: 00:20:44

Right.

440

: 00:20:45

That's an opinion or a belief.

441

: 00:20:48

Right.

442

: 00:20:49

Right.

443

: 00:20:50

Which is- Or it's connected to some

other, yeah, like it's connected

444

: 00:20:52

to some other underlying thing.

445

: 00:20:55

Just different than truth.

446

: 00:20:56

And you're filtering the

experience through your perception.

447

: 00:21:00

Yeah.

448

: 00:21:01

Exactly.

449

: 00:21:01

And so again, it's like, I think

there's, there's also, like, this

450

: 00:21:07

kind of therapy speak that's also

being potentially weaponized.

451

: 00:21:13

Like, "Well, this is my truth."

452

: 00:21:14

Mm.

453

: 00:21:15

Like, right?

454

: 00:21:16

Right.

455

: 00:21:17

And, and that's like the my truth is

this, and it's being kind of used as

456

: 00:21:22

an excuse in some- Right … cases.

457

: 00:21:27

Which is, I mean, that's connected

to what you just said too, Solana,

458

: 00:21:30

that, like, the opinion, the belief.

459

: 00:21:33

Mm-hmm.

460

: 00:21:33

Right?

461

: 00:21:33

It's your experience of it.

462

: 00:21:36

There may be some validity to the

experience or to the feelings you have or

463

: 00:21:39

to, you know, whatever, but in, in most

cases the truth is not that polarized.

464

: 00:21:47

It's always, it's usually

somewhere in the middle of the

465

: 00:21:50

two- … people's experiences, right?

466

: 00:21:51

Yeah.

467

: 00:21:51

Like, it's not, like- Yeah … your

experience and my experience, and the

468

: 00:21:54

truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

469

: 00:21:56

But- Yeah … I think people weaponize,

be like, "This is my truth," and they want

470

: 00:22:01

kind of validation in that even though- Mm

471

: 00:22:05

they're not willing to

acknowledge your truth.

472

: 00:22:08

That's where it feels shitty.

473

: 00:22:10

That's it.

474

: 00:22:10

Yeah.

475

: 00:22:11

It's also used to manipulate others.

476

: 00:22:13

Yes.

477

: 00:22:17

I like that distinction.

478

: 00:22:19

I don't know if I'm gonna

say my truth anymore.

479

: 00:22:23

Mm-hmm.

480

: 00:22:24

I don't know if I use that all that much.

481

: 00:22:26

I usually say, "In my experience,"

because- Mm-hmm … that's what it is.

482

: 00:22:29

It's my experience.

483

: 00:22:32

Right.

484

: 00:22:32

It's not somebody else's,

everybody's is different.

485

: 00:22:34

And I'm, and by saying my

experience, I'm not suggesting that

486

: 00:22:37

it should also be your experience.

487

: 00:22:39

Right.

488

: 00:22:39

Right.

489

: 00:22:39

Right.

490

: 00:22:40

Or that it could, or that my experience

could be taken from me either.

491

: 00:22:43

Yeah.

492

: 00:22:44

Right.

493

: 00:22:45

Because the truth is just-

Yeah … a universal fact, right?

494

: 00:22:51

Mm-hmm.

495

: 00:22:52

I like the sentence starter

that Brené teaches us to use.

496

: 00:22:56

Um, like the story I'm telling myself

or the story that- Mm-hmm … like

497

: 00:23:00

is, is coming up for me in this

situation, because that's what it is.

498

: 00:23:04

It's like- Yeah … it's the

narrative that we fill in

499

: 00:23:07

based on our past experiences

500

: 00:23:12

that can kind of color what that is.

501

: 00:23:16

But I, but I think, I think

at the heart of this or at the

502

: 00:23:21

root of this, it's that like I-

503

: 00:23:27

I don't think that people

504

: 00:23:31

Have, uh, I think we're getting there,

but I don't think we're there yet,

505

: 00:23:37

like kind of culturally or as a society

that like, that the uncomfortable

506

: 00:23:43

truth is always the best path.

507

: 00:23:46

There's still so many folks that

have a hard time having difficult

508

: 00:23:50

conversations or providing like critical

feedback or holding people accountable

509

: 00:23:56

with, again, in, in any and all

relationship dynamics and environments.

510

: 00:24:01

Right.

511

: 00:24:01

But our inability to have hard

conversations or to lean into like

512

: 00:24:08

those things is holding us back.

513

: 00:24:12

I mean, like the truth

is always kind, right?

514

: 00:24:16

Just keep saying that.

515

: 00:24:17

Feel like a broken record,

but it's always kind.

516

: 00:24:19

Even if it's hard, it's kind.

517

: 00:24:21

Yes.

518

: 00:24:22

Adriana, as a truth speaker, is there

anywhere that you struggle with it?

519

: 00:24:29

Oh, yeah.

520

: 00:24:30

I mean, in, in relationships I do.

521

: 00:24:32

You know, it's always really hard

because of being told, you know,

522

: 00:24:36

again, be nice, be, you know,

523

: 00:24:41

like put everybody else's feelings

before your own so don't- Mm

524

: 00:24:45

you know, don't tell the truth.

525

: 00:24:48

So that's really, still really

difficult for me in relationships.

526

: 00:24:53

Uh, you know, specifically

when there's, um-

527

: 00:24:59

When there is like, um, an

issue in, with the relationship.

528

: 00:25:02

Like it's hard for me to

529

: 00:25:06

open up and say what I, what I'm

feeling about the relationship.

530

: 00:25:14

That's, that's hard for me.

531

: 00:25:16

Because again, it's, oh, well,

how are they gonna take it?

532

: 00:25:19

How are they gonna feel?

533

: 00:25:21

You know, the people pleasing.

534

: 00:25:23

Managing other people's reactions.

535

: 00:25:25

Right.

536

: 00:25:26

Which is manipulation.

537

: 00:25:27

Exactly.

538

: 00:25:27

Right?

539

: 00:25:28

Um, but yeah, so I, I find that I-

540

: 00:25:33

I feel like I'm way better than I've

ever been in that department, but I

541

: 00:25:38

definitely still struggle with, um

542

: 00:25:43

Telling people that at some point

543

: 00:25:46

I

544

: 00:25:47

I think it, yeah, trust is huge, right?

545

: 00:25:50

In this context, right?

546

: 00:25:52

Like, I feel like I could

tell you guys anything.

547

: 00:25:56

Mm-hmm.

548

: 00:26:01

Yeah.

549

: 00:26:01

And it would be met with openness and

curiosity, and I wouldn't have to worry

550

: 00:26:03

about trying to manage your reaction.

551

: 00:26:06

Right.

552

: 00:26:07

Right?

553

: 00:26:07

Mm-hmm.

554

: 00:26:11

But it still feels like a struggle

in most other areas for me.

555

: 00:26:18

Um

556

: 00:26:21

One of the things I try to

keep in my mind to help me with

557

: 00:26:28

it is that kindness, right?

558

: 00:26:31

In, in the cost associated with- Mm

559

: 00:26:38

Not addressing things because the cost

just grows and grows and grows, um

560

: 00:26:47

Yeah, you just put so much more

distance in between it, right?

561

: 00:26:51

When you don't, you know, speak up.

562

: 00:26:51

And it's, I mean, it's

a weight that you carry.

563

: 00:26:54

Right.

564

: 00:26:55

That's true.

565

: 00:26:55

Well, so let me just make up an example.

566

: 00:27:00

Or no, I'll use something from my past.

567

: 00:27:02

Um, working with somebody that

568

: 00:27:08

was new, and I'm highly efficient, very

confident, or con- uh, uh, confident.

569

: 00:27:16

Um, I'm a very dedicated,

hardworking, I wanna do things well.

570

: 00:27:24

I like to be the best at

anything I put my mind to.

571

: 00:27:28

Not better than others.

572

: 00:27:30

Right.

573

: 00:27:30

Same.

574

: 00:27:30

The best that I can do-

Right … to be clear.

575

: 00:27:34

It's taken me a long time to figure

this out, but I finally figured it out.

576

: 00:27:36

Okay, so, um, this other person was not

like that, and, um, trying to train,

577

: 00:27:46

trying to train, trying to train.

578

: 00:27:48

Like, going over and over and over

things, which is a huge pet peeve of mine.

579

: 00:27:52

I hate repeating myself.

580

: 00:27:54

My brain works really fast, and,

uh, I get super frustrated when

581

: 00:27:58

I have to repeat simple things.

582

: 00:28:01

Um, and you know, like, eventually just

giving up because nothing ever changed,

583

: 00:28:09

and I really hate repeating myself.

584

: 00:28:11

And so the cost to me in the long run

was I was doing all the work- Oh, yeah

585

: 00:28:17

… until I got another job, and the person

they hired to replace me now had to deal

586

: 00:28:24

with this other person's incompetence.

587

: 00:28:28

And let me say, the person that they hired

to replace me doesn't work there anymore.

588

: 00:28:34

The person who was

incompetent still works there.

589

: 00:28:37

So that's a huge cost.

590

: 00:28:40

Like, uh, and that's

detrimental to everybody.

591

: 00:28:43

So not escalating things or

really, like, making it known how

592

: 00:28:55

Costly it was, not just

to me, but to everybody.

593

: 00:29:00

'Cause it wasn't just affecting

me, it was affecting every per-

594

: 00:29:04

everyone that this person interacted

with or did not interact with.

595

: 00:29:08

You know what I mean?

596

: 00:29:09

Yes.

597

: 00:29:09

So that's what I try to keep in mind

to help me, so I feel like it takes

598

: 00:29:15

a lot of courage for me to speak

the truth in some situations, so

599

: 00:29:22

It's not just for me

600

: 00:29:25

Yeah.

601

: 00:29:26

I think for the- Is that-

Like, I'll say the same as you.

602

: 00:29:30

Like, in certain situations, like with

the two of you- Mm-hmm … there's

603

: 00:29:35

no hesitancy- Right … for truth,

'cause we've built so much trust.

604

: 00:29:43

And like you said, it's

always met with curiosity.

605

: 00:29:48

Right.

606

: 00:29:52

There are times when it's way

harder because there's uncertainty

607

: 00:29:58

on the other side, right?

608

: 00:30:00

Mm-hmm.

609

: 00:30:00

Like, you know, like we have, we all have

people in our life who are, like, not

610

: 00:30:03

sure which version we're gonna get today.

611

: 00:30:05

Like, what are we…

612

: 00:30:07

Which, and, and it's hard not to

manage other people's responses.

613

: 00:30:13

That's a thing that, like, I'm

continuing to work on is that, like,

614

: 00:30:15

I have no control over it anyway.

615

: 00:30:18

So, like, I can't, it's just, you

know, like, if the truth is the

616

: 00:30:25

truth, it just needs to be said.

617

: 00:30:29

Um-

618

: 00:30:32

And I'm not responsible for what happens

on the other side, but it's hard to

619

: 00:30:35

not be responsible after a lifetime

of feeling responsible- Mm-hmm … for

620

: 00:30:38

everyone else's shit, right?

621

: 00:30:40

Mm-hmm.

622

: 00:30:40

Um,

623

: 00:30:43

but then there's also

like, I feel like I've-

624

: 00:30:48

I feel like the hardest truth

625

: 00:30:52

I ever had to vocalize was like

leading up to my divorce Mm … of like

626

: 00:31:01

the, the realization of like I don't

actually want to have children, and

627

: 00:31:06

then know that you do and therefore

628

: 00:31:11

I need you, like, I

need you to go do that.

629

: 00:31:14

And, and like being able to kind of

like say the truth, um, was like without

630

: 00:31:22

a doubt the heaviest and hardest.

631

: 00:31:25

But then

632

: 00:31:30

I can't even say that, like, every

truth after that has been easy.

633

: 00:31:33

Like, it's still not always easy, even

if it's a much smaller truth, right?

634

: 00:31:39

Like, it's still a lot of unlearning

635

: 00:31:44

Yep

636

: 00:31:44

Yeah, it's hard.

637

: 00:31:46

I, I feel like, you know, talk about

courage and vulnerability, right?

638

: 00:31:51

Like, you need those to be truthful, and

I find it really difficult to do when I

639

: 00:31:58

know the other person is in a safe space.

640

: 00:32:00

Mm.

641

: 00:32:03

That's why I struggle with it now

is because I don't, if I don't feel

642

: 00:32:08

safe with that person, it, it's

hard for me to find the courage to

643

: 00:32:16

be vulnerable, to tell the truth

644

: 00:32:21

Interesting

645

: 00:32:24

And I also think that's true of even,

like, the simplest things, right?

646

: 00:32:29

Like, if someone-- If I'm, if I'm

interacting with someone that I haven't

647

: 00:32:33

seen in a while or who I don't have,

like, a very deep relationship with

648

: 00:32:37

and they say, "How are you feeling?"

649

: 00:32:38

My answer's gonna be much different.

650

: 00:32:40

Right.

651

: 00:32:40

'Cause you haven't earned my truth.

652

: 00:32:44

You haven't earned the right to, like,

the real answer to that question.

653

: 00:32:47

Oof.

654

: 00:32:47

Right, yeah.

655

: 00:32:47

Whereas, like, the way I answer

that question with the two of you is

656

: 00:32:50

actually with a pause and to really

think about the response instead

657

: 00:32:54

of just being like, "I'm good.

658

: 00:32:56

Everything's great.

659

: 00:32:57

Fine, fine, fine."

660

: 00:32:58

Like, not gonna do that, but I

do auto-reply people who haven't

661

: 00:33:04

earned the right to understand

662

: 00:33:09

All of my inner world Yeah Or to

experience all of my inner world

663

: 00:33:15

Great distinction.

664

: 00:33:17

Thanks for bringing that up

665

: 00:33:19

Not everybody is permitted.

666

: 00:33:23

Not everybody needs to know.

667

: 00:33:24

Yeah.

668

: 00:33:26

Right.

669

: 00:33:26

That's the other part, right?

670

: 00:33:27

Like, you don't have to

tell the truth to everybody

671

: 00:33:32

Yeah.

672

: 00:33:33

As someone who has a history of

chronically oversharing it as an

673

: 00:33:36

attempt for connection- I'm with

you … I have learned that not

674

: 00:33:41

everyone is worthy of my truth.

675

: 00:33:43

My truth, like my true stories, right?

676

: 00:33:46

Yeah.

677

: 00:33:46

Like whatever, whatever lies in my depths.

678

: 00:33:51

Mm-hmm.

679

: 00:33:54

All right.

680

: 00:33:55

What about truth makes it rebellious?

681

: 00:33:59

Oh.

682

: 00:34:00

Back to the beginning where we

talk about the conditioning.

683

: 00:34:03

Yeah.

684

: 00:34:04

And the societal norms of niceties.

685

: 00:34:07

Do you know what I think is very funny?

686

: 00:34:09

Um, the, that I live in Massachusetts,

and for those of you listening who are not

687

: 00:34:14

familiar, many of the people who reside in

Massachusetts are often called Massholes.

688

: 00:34:20

Um, it's…

689

: 00:34:23

People in Massachusetts are not nice.

690

: 00:34:26

Uh, they are however very

kind, but they are not nice.

691

: 00:34:31

So there will be, like,

no social niceties.

692

: 00:34:34

Everything sounds harsh and direct,

but they will also give you the

693

: 00:34:39

shirt off their back, right?

694

: 00:34:40

Like, that's- Yeah … and I feel

like that's actually a whole vibe.

695

: 00:34:44

Mm-hmm.

696

: 00:34:45

It's one of the things I very

much appreciate about living here.

697

: 00:34:47

Mm-hmm.

698

: 00:34:48

That it might be a little rough

around the edges, but you will

699

: 00:34:50

absolutely always get the truth.

700

: 00:34:52

Um- Mm-hmm … you won't…

701

: 00:34:55

Yeah.

702

: 00:34:57

But I don't think that's the norm.

703

: 00:34:59

Like, that's not the norm, right?

704

: 00:35:01

Like, we still hear there's a lot of,

like, pockets of our society that are

705

: 00:35:07

still obsessed with social niceties,

and that's why it feels rebellious.

706

: 00:35:12

Hmm.

707

: 00:35:12

That's why giving a true answer to

the question, "How are you feeling?"

708

: 00:35:15

feels like even the tiniest little

rebellion in your day-to-day, right?

709

: 00:35:19

Like-

710

: 00:35:24

That's why it feels rebellious for me

711

: 00:35:29

Yeah, I'm not really

sure how to answer that

712

: 00:35:32

' Cause I feel like

713

: 00:35:35

In some sense, I just don't give a

fuck, and I'm just gonna tell you.

714

: 00:35:39

You know what I mean?

715

: 00:35:40

Like, you know, obviously

depending on the scenario, but,

716

: 00:35:46

I mean, I, uh, I'm thinking like

public, like being in public.

717

: 00:35:49

Like, I don't fucking care, 'cause I don't

care who you are, I'm just gonna tell you.

718

: 00:35:53

You know?

719

: 00:35:53

'Cause I don't have any

attachment to you- Mm-hmm

720

: 00:35:56

in any, in any way.

721

: 00:35:58

Um- So I feel like in that sense

I'm rebellious, but I'm, I'm, I'm

722

: 00:36:05

I don't know.

723

: 00:36:05

I guess, um,

724

: 00:36:09

I'm trying to think, like with my

mom, um, I would always just be honest

725

: 00:36:14

with her, and she didn't like it.

726

: 00:36:17

She didn't like it, and then sh-

to her it was like a respect thing.

727

: 00:36:20

Like, "Don't be…

728

: 00:36:21

That's disrespectful."

729

: 00:36:22

And I'm like, "Well, respect

goes both ways," you know?

730

: 00:36:25

Um, but yeah, usually-

Actually the most respectful.

731

: 00:36:28

Isn't that funny?

732

: 00:36:29

Yeah.

733

: 00:36:29

Mm-hmm.

734

: 00:36:30

And, uh, yeah, like I would just say

whatever, and she didn't like it,

735

: 00:36:36

and I was just like, I, you know.

736

: 00:36:38

I guess to, like I, to me that, that,

that w- that always felt rebellious.

737

: 00:36:42

Like I, I didn't care if, um,

she didn't like something.

738

: 00:36:47

I was just gonna tell her the truth, and,

you know, she found it disrespectful,

739

: 00:36:53

but to me I was just being honest, right?

740

: 00:36:56

So, um

741

: 00:37:00

Yeah, I don't know.

742

: 00:37:01

I, I guess, I don't know.

743

: 00:37:02

I f- I feel like in some, in some cases

it just comes so natural to me to just

744

: 00:37:06

say things, like, to, like, say things

that other people w- think about but would

745

: 00:37:11

never say, and I just, like, let it flow.

746

: 00:37:14

And so people are always like,

"Oh my God, Adriana," you know?

747

: 00:37:18

And I laugh because, uh, I, I mean, I

748

: 00:37:21

Even when I worked in the office,

and I would just say whatever, and

749

: 00:37:27

I remember, um, one of my teammates

would be like, "Adriana, no, really.

750

: 00:37:30

Tell us how y- tell us how you feel."

751

: 00:37:33

And I would always laugh.

752

: 00:37:35

I would always laugh.

753

: 00:37:36

I'm like, "I can't help myself.

754

: 00:37:37

I don't know."

755

: 00:37:38

I, like, I … It's not even

like I'm trying to, like, tell

756

: 00:37:42

you the truth in the moment.

757

: 00:37:43

I'm just, this is how I see

it and I'm just telling you.

758

: 00:37:46

Like, it's just a conversation.

759

: 00:37:47

So- It's a default setting.

760

: 00:37:48

Yeah.

761

: 00:37:49

I guess that's … I, I don't know.

762

: 00:37:50

I guess- Okay.

763

: 00:37:51

Cool, cool, cool … to me that's

rebellious without being rebellious.

764

: 00:37:53

She's been a rebel her whole life.

765

: 00:37:54

Yeah.

766

: 00:37:54

Yeah.

767

: 00:37:55

Like, but without intentionally

thinking that I'm being rebellious.

768

: 00:37:57

I just can't help myself.

769

: 00:37:59

That's what I hear, is

that's your personality.

770

: 00:38:03

That's why I called you a truth speaker.

771

: 00:38:04

Yeah.

772

: 00:38:05

Um, what about … So maybe if we put

it in the context of this podcast.

773

: 00:38:09

Yeah.

774

: 00:38:09

What about being truthful in

this podcast makes it rebellious?

775

: 00:38:17

Is these are the things…

776

: 00:38:19

Our plan is to talk about the things

that we were told not to talk about.

777

: 00:38:23

Like, the things that we don't…

778

: 00:38:24

I don't know.

779

: 00:38:27

I think the value, the value that we've

780

: 00:38:33

felt or the impact that we felt from

the types of conversations we have is

781

: 00:38:39

something that we decided to share because

782

: 00:38:44

The sort of like it's, it's the

last piece of the value, right?

783

: 00:38:49

Like the real talk, raw hearts,

the courage to say the thing.

784

: 00:38:54

It's like this is our plan is to

talk, is to speak about our, like

785

: 00:39:02

the truth of our experiences, the,

the things that were, that we were

786

: 00:39:07

told should kind of stay in the dark.

787

: 00:39:10

Mm.

788

: 00:39:12

That's maybe what feels

rebellious about this.

789

: 00:39:15

It's like some of those truths

790

: 00:39:19

need to be normalized.

791

: 00:39:22

Yeah.

792

: 00:39:23

Maybe so that this step

doesn't feel so hard

793

: 00:39:27

Yeah, I feel like it's, um

794

: 00:39:31

Having these conversations to

795

: 00:39:35

So, so like that others can

see that they can have it too.

796

: 00:39:38

Like, like to me that's what feels

like rebellious, that they…

797

: 00:39:43

Not that they have to go and get

permission from, from someone, but

798

: 00:39:46

sometimes we do need that permission

of like, "Shit, I can do this too.

799

: 00:39:49

Oh."

800

: 00:39:49

You know?

801

: 00:39:50

Or just that they see something

that they didn't see before.

802

: 00:39:51

So I feel like the rebellious part

about this is giving others permission

803

: 00:39:56

to have the conversations as well,

to be truthful, to do your thing.

804

: 00:40:02

You don't have to go by

soci- the societal norm.

805

: 00:40:04

You don't have to follow that anymore.

806

: 00:40:06

You can pave your own path.

807

: 00:40:09

Mm-hmm.

808

: 00:40:10

There's no pretending here.

809

: 00:40:12

Yeah.

810

: 00:40:13

So- … that's what, like to

me that's what's rebellious.

811

: 00:40:15

Like, you don't have to listen to them.

812

: 00:40:18

You can do your own thing.

813

: 00:40:20

You don't have to listen to us.

814

: 00:40:22

Right.

815

: 00:40:22

Do your own thing.

816

: 00:40:22

Right, exactly.

817

: 00:40:23

Yeah.

818

: 00:40:23

No.

819

: 00:40:24

Exactly.

820

: 00:40:24

But what we want to model

is that truth is love.

821

: 00:40:28

Yes.

822

: 00:40:29

Yep.

823

: 00:40:30

Because lies are not love.

824

: 00:40:34

Mm-mm.

825

: 00:40:35

And sooner or later you see that.

826

: 00:40:37

Even well-intentioned or white lies.

827

: 00:40:39

Yeah.

828

: 00:40:39

Not love.

829

: 00:40:40

Yep.

830

: 00:40:41

There's no, there's no protection in that.

831

: 00:40:45

We love the flaws that

we see in each other.

832

: 00:40:49

Yeah.

833

: 00:40:50

And hopefully ourselves.

834

: 00:40:53

And also that like, I think there's

maybe also something in that like we,

835

: 00:41:00

we don't have plans to do a whole lot

of editing these conversations either.

836

: 00:41:05

Yeah.

837

: 00:41:05

We want them to be quite raw, and

that might mean they're a little

838

: 00:41:10

choppy in parts or a little weird in

parts, and that's just- Uncomfortable.

839

: 00:41:14

Right?

840

: 00:41:15

Yeah.

841

: 00:41:15

That's what you're gonna get because we're

not trying to be perfectly polished, put a

842

: 00:41:20

bow on it, because that's not fucking real

843

: 00:41:25

So…

844

: 00:41:25

So like that.

845

: 00:41:29

Yeah.

846

: 00:41:31

That feels so far away from where I am.

847

: 00:41:33

Yeah.

848

: 00:41:33

That I don't even, I don't think

I could fake it if I wanted to.

849

: 00:41:43

Yeah

850

: 00:41:45

Any other final thoughts on truth?

851

: 00:41:46

I just have a question for you guys.

852

: 00:41:48

Like, as we do this, since we're

talking about truth, like, how do

853

: 00:41:52

you feel as you're recording this?

854

: 00:41:53

Like, any podcast, like when, since

we started recording, like, how do you

855

: 00:41:58

feel in your body when you're doing it?

856

: 00:42:04

I felt different for the

first few than I do today Okay

857

: 00:42:12

I felt a little more nervous.

858

: 00:42:14

Mm.

859

: 00:42:15

I agree.

860

: 00:42:16

I don't- I think … feel nervous

today, but I'm also not really

861

: 00:42:21

in the hot seat today, so.

862

: 00:42:26

I, I think on the first one, or the…

863

: 00:42:31

Yeah, the first one that y'all will never

hear, 'cause we're not gonna use it.

864

: 00:42:35

But, um- … the first one about me, I was

nervous when we started, and then it just

865

: 00:42:45

went, and then I was like, "Yeah,

I didn't like how that went."

866

: 00:42:49

Mm.

867

: 00:42:49

I don't feel like it conveyed

anything useful, if that makes sense.

868

: 00:42:55

Mm.

869

: 00:42:55

Like, um, and realizing, well,

this is our thing, and so we can

870

: 00:43:02

just do whatever we want with it.

871

: 00:43:04

Right, yeah.

872

: 00:43:04

It's just, like, so different

from other experiences.

873

: 00:43:11

So ever since then, literally, like,

it's just like, this is awesome.

874

: 00:43:16

I'm excited every single time.

875

: 00:43:18

I look forward to the

conversations, and that's it.

876

: 00:43:24

I love it.

877

: 00:43:25

Yeah.

878

: 00:43:26

Me too.

879

: 00:43:26

I, I definitely was more nervous at

first, and I still, I still get nervous.

880

: 00:43:32

I get nervous because, you

know, I get in my head.

881

: 00:43:35

Um, but once I'm…

882

: 00:43:37

once, like, we get going, like, I'm good.

883

: 00:43:39

You know, it's, it's like I get nervous

because of those awkward moments

884

: 00:43:42

where we haven't really, like…

885

: 00:43:46

We just started doing this, right?

886

: 00:43:47

So we're, there's points where

we're kinda like not sure where to

887

: 00:43:51

go, how to start, or how to end.

888

: 00:43:53

Mm-hmm.

889

: 00:43:53

You know?

890

: 00:43:54

Um, and so that's when I like s- when

the, that's like when I start bracing.

891

: 00:43:58

But other than that, I feel so good

doing it because of why we're doing it.

892

: 00:44:06

And, um, I feel amazing afterwards.

893

: 00:44:08

Like, I'm like on this high- Yes, for sure

894

: 00:44:10

after we're done, 'cause

it's, it's just great.

895

: 00:44:13

I love having these conversations.

896

: 00:44:14

To be fair, the awkwardness is that

we talk for an hour before this.

897

: 00:44:19

Right.

898

: 00:44:20

Because we can't possibly be in a virtual

meeting without just- … getting chatty.

899

: 00:44:27

Right And then we have to have

this, like, weird, "Well, like,

900

: 00:44:29

we should probably press record

and, like, do something today."

901

: 00:44:32

Right.

902

: 00:44:32

So we're just like, then we have

to have this awkward transition

903

: 00:44:35

over to, like, "Okay, hey."

904

: 00:44:37

Like, like we're just- Right … seeing

each other for the first time- Yes,

905

: 00:44:40

yes … and we've been here for an hour.

906

: 00:44:41

Like, that's the weird part.

907

: 00:44:43

Yeah.

908

: 00:44:43

That's what makes it feel awkward.

909

: 00:44:45

Yeah, we have to find our

way to transition over.

910

: 00:44:48

But we will, and I'm, again,

we're not- And the, and the

911

: 00:44:50

wrap-up … trying to be perfect.

912

: 00:44:51

Yeah.

913

: 00:44:51

Yeah.

914

: 00:44:51

We'll, we'll get there.

915

: 00:44:53

Yeah, exactly.

916

: 00:44:53

But yes, welcome to our mess.

917

: 00:44:54

Yes, exactly.

918

: 00:44:55

We are messily figuring

this out, and- It's the

919

: 00:44:58

truth … thank you for being here.

920

: 00:45:00

I love it.

921

: 00:45:03

I love you guys so much.

922

: 00:45:05

This is, this is also a

preview of general fuckery.

923

: 00:45:10

Right, exactly.

924

: 00:45:11

For today.

925

: 00:45:12

Exactly.

926

: 00:45:14

Yay.

927

: 00:45:14

Which is- Okay, but next up

is courage … yeah, good.

928

: 00:45:18

So.

929

: 00:45:18

Yeah.

930

: 00:45:18

But we'll talk courage next, 'cause

that's- Yeah … the nice, that's

931

: 00:45:21

a nice progression from truth.

932

: 00:45:24

For sure.

933

: 00:45:25

So.

934

: 00:45:26

All right.

935

: 00:45:26

We'll see you there.

936

: 00:45:27

Thank you all so much.

937

: 00:45:27

See you next time.

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