In this episode, we talk with Anne Sena, Director of Operations and Technology at St. David’s School. Anne shares her compelling journey from a fast-paced corporate career at Cisco to impactful leadership in an independent school, offering key insights on managing institutional change, building trust with faculty, and navigating an expanding technology role.

• St. David’s School
• Anne’s LinkedIn Profile
• ATLIS / NAIS AI Collaboration Resources
• Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle, book by sisters Emily and Amelia Nagoski
• Over Work: Transforming the Daily Grind in the Quest for a Better Life, book by Bridget Schultz
• ATLIS Leadership Institute, education and networking program designed to prepare and support technology leaders in independent schools as they grow into their positions and expand their influence.
• Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included), by Pooja Lakshmin, M.D.
• Overwhelmed: Work, Love, and Play When No One Has the Time, by Brigid Schulte
• The Secret of My Success, 80’s film with strong female character in corporate environment

Nick, welcome to Talking technology with Atlas,

the show that plugs you into the important topics and trends for

technology leaders all through a unique Independent School lens.

We'll hear stories from technology directors and other

special guests from the Independent School community,

and provide you with focused learning and deep dive topics.

And now please welcome your host. Kristina llewellen,

Hello, and welcome back to talking technology with

Atlas. I'm Kristina llewellen, the president and CEO of the

Association of technology leaders in independent schools.

And I'm Hiram Cuevas, the Director of

Information Systems and Academic Technology at St Christopher

school in Richmond, Virginia.

And I am Peter Frank, the Senior Director of

certification and operations for the Association of technology

leaders in independent schools.

Peter, thank you for pinch hitting. Bill's not here

today. No, this is interesting because you've helped me out a

few times recording a couple of podcasts without me, and usually

when I'm recording, you're kind of in the background as a

producer. And now we come face to face on the pod, that's

right, I'm excited. You're here,

me too. And you know what we've learned? What

did we learn? It's always easier without bill,

oh,

coming in hot on Bill

just out of the gate.

Oh, Bill, we love you. We love you. Bill, we love

bill. We hope you're surfing.

You know what? We should probably do a little edit

right here where we allow bill to, like, pop in and give a

little comment. Since he's not here to defend himself.

I don't know, you guys were pretty rich when I

wasn't there, so there was no opportunity for Hiram to come

back. It was just bam, bam. No mas. This is

what happens when you miss a meeting. I mean, we are

the quintessential don't miss a pod, because you don't know

what's about to go public. If you miss a recording, that's

what happens. That's right. Are you having a good summer so far?

Peter,

I am. It's been busy. Things at Atlas are busy

behind the scenes. Yeah, we're looking forward to announcing

some new things coming down the

pipeline. Yeah, Hiram, we're in the middle of a

technology transition, dude, so we're all a little frazzled.

Yeah, I mean, I can see a couple of extra gray hairs in Peter's

beard, but so far, he's still smiling. So that's good,

which is, yeah, remarkable, because my beard has

been great since I was 30, I think. Yeah, tech stuff and T

list certification things going on. So, yeah, there's been a lot

going on. It's been good. I'm

looking forward to going to Columbus, that's for

sure.

Oh, right, we're about to gear up for our board

retreat, welcoming some new members to the Atlas board and

the Atlas certification Council, so that'll be fun, and it's

always a good opportunity when we get our entire board together

in person. Okay, technology is great. We all know that. But

when we get the board together to do some looking ahead and

some strategy. It's always really powerful. So I definitely

look forward to that. So I'll see you in person in a couple

weeks.

I can't wait Absolutely.

Yeah, it's gonna be great, guys, we have a really

special guest with us today. Ann Senna is joining us on the pod,

and thank you so much for being here with us today. How are you?

I'm great, very happy to be here and you are the Director of

Operations and Technology at St David's School, which is a pre K

through 12th grade school, Independent School in Raleigh.

One of our staffers, Kelsea Watson, also lives in Raleigh,

and our founding director, Sarah hannewald, lives in Raleigh. So

lots of cool stuff happening in Raleigh, but thank you for

joining us and tell us a little bit about your school.

St David. School is located in the center of

Raleigh, and we have 680 students, pre K through 12, and

we also have 140 547

faculty and staff, and what's kind of a dynamic of what

students come to St David's, as opposed to some of the other

great options in your area.

I think parents want to bring their students to St

David's because it's a mix of a really great education,

classical education, coupled with a faith based education. So

there is biblical integration throughout the classrooms and

throughout the different courses of study, and you also have

sports and fine art, so that whole experience. But I really

do feel like it's the coupling of a faith based educational

journey

that's really cool. Now your title is Director of

Operations and Technology. Can you help us pick that apart a

little bit? We've come to learn that all schools have different

titles when it comes to their technology teams, and they mean

different things. So what does it mean to be the Director of

ops and technology?

Well, actually, this title is really hot off the

press. It's as of July 1.

So I. Oh, nice. So you may not know.

Well, I know, but I don't know if you know what I

mean. So I know what I'm responsible for, but what that

all means will be revealed over time. But I've been at the

school for 10 years, so I have a good handle on it. Many of the

people who I'm working more closely with I worked with in

the past, they just haven't reported into me. So I was

director of technology my entire time, past 10 plus years. And

then this new role of operations being added is oversight of the

facilities management as well as safety and security.

And those things are increasingly connected.

Absolutely, in fact, we just drove the implementation

of ricotta security cameras, access control, guest management

over the past three years, and so certainly, hand in hand,

technology enables our Director of Safety and Security the

insights that he needs to actually be the presence that we

need him to be throughout the school days.

Yeah, I'm so glad that you actually have that

title now, because so many tech directors are actually moving in

this direction where the physical security is now layered

into the technical side and the data side. Because often those

two things are intertwined, indeed. And to mention the

facilities. Our head of school, for example, likes to be able to

turn off the sprinkler systems from his phone. And so we're

like, Okay, we got to get that on the network and figure out

how to get that and put that in the things of the internet,

because it's not the most secure of appliances that we're trying

to install.

Yeah, absolutely, it makes a lot of sense. And you

know, certainly there's a lot more to school operations than

those two areas, and so I have a sense that my purview will

expand over time, but it really, as you mentioned, Kristina,

really depends on each individual school, but I do

believe that there is more of an inclination to include

operations with Technology and have that led as a group

function.

So Ann, who actually will be reporting to

you now,

Director of Facilities and Veracross, has

reported to me. So all the systems, Si, S and LMS, as well

as infrastructure network devices, classroom technology,

you name it. So basically CIO type functions. And then,

addition to the director of facilities, will be the director

of safety and security, so adding two functions to my

existing function for the time being. And then I think with a

new head of school coming in, who just started in June, I

think there'll be that year at least, of rationalization,

listening, understanding what he's bringing with him from his

experience, and what we have going, and then those

opportunities to shuffle things around, because we have dining

services that are at St David's, and we have like, you know, you

could think about carpool, you could think about field trips.

Could also be operations. So I also think it's co designing,

what that looks like. And I'm looking forward to that. I

love it. I really do love what I'm hearing. This

is a new venture for, I think, everybody in the audience to

hear what you're going to step into here. Yeah,

yeah. We'll have to keep tabs on this as it unfolds.

So Anne, let's take a step back and talk a little bit about your

path. Part of why we wanted to invite you on the pod. You've

been an active contributor to the Atlas community, and I know

a lot of folks know of you, but what I find really interesting

is that you've made this transition from a corporate

space to the independent school space. So let's start by helping

everybody understand, sort of, your trajectory, your journey,

if you will,

sure, absolutely so. When I was a young teenager, I

saw the movie secret of my success. Michael J Fox, I don't

know if any of you saw it, but I remember seeing that and the

woman, the lead character in that movie, she was one of the

only female executives in that movie. She was strong, she was

powerful, she was smart, and that sparked an interest with

me. My parents also owned their own businesses. They were

entrepreneurs, so I grew up with business so I knew I was going

to be a business major. When I decided what major I wanted to

be within business administration, I chose it for

the only reason that I knew I was going to get a good job.

Other than that, that was all I had thought about. So then once

I was in school, I realized, Oh, well, not only is it an exciting

space, but I'm really good at system design and analysis

coding. Boy, I had to do it, but not my cup of tea. But when it

came to design and analysis and project management, that was my

sweet spot. I also added production operations management

to that. So I double majored. The summer before my senior

year, there was a small company called Cisco Systems in the Bay

Area, and I went to an info session and asked them if they

had internships. They didn't, but I gave them my resume

anyway. Long story short, they said, Sure, show. Up at this

address in San Jose and do a summer internship. Went there

was actually in manufacturing, IT, which was ironic, because

how many people start their jobs matching their majors entirely.

But I worked throughout my senior year, part time, and then

upon graduation, went to Cisco. So I was employee number 10,169

I still remember that. Wow.

So it was very early in the Cisco days, for sure. So

essentially, I was all in you name, and I did it. I loved

manufacturing. I loved walking down the board build lines and

the box build lines and all of the shipping everything. I would

travel around the world and implement remote contract

manufacturing sites for Cisco. So did all of that. And I had a

lot of different jobs in Cisco. So my first 10 years, I was

basically leaning in to the nth degree, you name it. I did it.

My senior leadership caught the eye of a couple of them, and so

they moved me around to be the problem fixer. So that's what I

made my name for and my mark for. And then, after the first

decade, two big things happened. I married my husband, Bill, and

then at that same year, my stepfather died of cancer, and I

took care of him, along with my sister and my mom, and seeing

him, this man who I likened to John Wayne, deteriorate and pass

away, was just really crystallized for me, that life

is precious. So on the day of his funeral, my husband and I

were getting ready, and I said, You know what, I don't want to

wait. I want to start trying to have a family now, and so that

decision, and then the path forward, really shifted how I

ultimately needed to think about my career, because I still tried

all of the leaning in. I had a global job with an infant and a

four year old, and I would still work 13 hour days, starting at

5am got them to daycare, worked all day, got them home, settled

in bed, and then worked until midnight, almost. So I tried to

do that for a very, very long time, but ultimately it became

very clear to me that I had to make a choice because it was not

sustainable for health and mental health reasons. I had my

family that was growing, and I could not be what the business

at Cisco needed me to be and still be sane and loving and

lovable at home. And so finally, at close to my 18th year at

Cisco, it became very clear that my spirit and body was unwilling

and could not continue. So I resigned my position at Cisco

and didn't know where I would land, other than I'd been doing

the global technology and operations role all those years,

and so working through a platform like this, I've been

doing WebEx calls since 2000 so I was very used to everything

being virtual. However, what I wanted, what I had a craving

for, was seeing the direct impact of my work on people and

being in a place physically with people that I was working

closely with, and so that was my criteria. I thought I would land

at a smaller corporate business, either in Raleigh or for North

Carolina. But what ended up happening was up popped this

position for Director of Technology at St David school.

And I read it, and I thought, oh my gosh, this seems so

interesting. It would be in service of education, which one

of my core values is to be in service of my community in

whatever ways I am called. And so that was so appealing to me.

And then it also gave me the opportunity to develop the CIO

role because I'd had very targeted, broad but targeted

areas of Cisco that I was a steward of the systems and the

development for. But I didn't have that whole thing. I also

didn't have infrastructure devices. All of that I had the

system side completely understood, but all of those

reasons encouraged me to apply. And then through all the stars

aligned, things lined up beautifully. And I started my

position here at St David's in February 2015 when I resigned my

position at Cisco, December 2014

pretty impressive journey, and now you've found

yourself in a school just by happenstance. It's in your area,

and you're gonna meet that need that you have to serve a higher

order, right, like do something with impact. You've been there

now 10 years, so I'm sure you have some perspective looking

back on that transition. Is it hard to go from Cisco and

corporate to an independent school? There has to be some

culture shock there?

Yes, absolutely. I was so excited to be in a new

environment that that really carried me through I was in. I

naturally am an observer. That's why I think I am a good analyst.

Is I like to observe situations, people, environments, see what's

spoken, what's not spoken. I read people, I think, pretty

well. So that enthusiasm for being in such a new space was

really wonderful. And I knew from the very beginning that I

was in another situation where I was not the subject matter

expert. In fact, most times at Cisco, I was not so I was thrown

into a situation where I had to learn from experts. I had to

listen a lot, I had to earn their trust and their respect,

and so I used that skill set to really be open to learning and

diffuse any very likely and very real concerns that people had

around, uh oh, she came from corporate. Is she going to be

hard and difficult to work with, and what is she going to be

about? So I would say, certainly over these past 10 years, my

approach has softened, because there isn't that drive for the

bottom line that makes things hard for a corporate

perspective. At the same time, though, with an independent

school, all of those business norms and realities are really

important. They might not be talked about as much as I think

they probably should be at the leadership team level around

return investment, expense management, people development,

all of those things that make the school function as a very

well functioning organization and a business really. However,

I also know that that is a quick way to repel educators is to

start talking about business stuff, because to me, what I

have learned is that education is an art that you do have to

understand so it can be repeated, can be improved, but

there's just such an art form to being a great teacher in a

classroom that I think needs to be retained. But my ability to

bring all of my systems and IT expertise has really helped

completely transform the technology and the systems here

at St David's. So for that, I feel like that's been a big gift

that I have given the school because we had disparate systems

that duplicate data. We did not have enterprise class

infrastructure, you name it, and I overhauled all of it. And I

did a lot of it myself, because all tech teams, generally

speaking, run lean, and so I had the ability to manage those

projects myself. I did not have to hire consultants, because I

knew how to do that work and work really well with partners

like

Veracross. I'd like to dig in a little bit with the

rapport with teachers, especially many times in the

podcast, we have people who were teachers first and then came

into this role. So it's great to have someone who was in

technology first. You mentioned developing skills, like the

skills you learned in your former career to earn others

trust when you're not the expert. I'm wondering what you

could share, any specific examples, or anything you could

cite to help if someone has come into the tech leader role in an

independent school from the IT side, as opposed to the teacher

side. I'm just curious some positive experiences you've had,

or any advice you have, or things you've learned along that

that has helped you when it comes to working with teachers

and the ed tech side,

I guess I would say that my approach is one of

wanting to learn from people like I mentioned. I acknowledge

when I'm not a subject matter expert. And I would, I guess,

the word that came up to me, Peter was I like to think of

myself as pretty humble. In fact, probably humble to a

fault, because I do like to be in the background, which makes

it perfect for me, and operations perfect for me. But

one example that helps articulate this or my approach,

is that when we were looking at determining what system provider

we were going to partner with, back in 2016 I created sub teams

looking at the core sis function. We had a sub team also

looking at what I would say, External Affairs, so marketing

communications and admissions and advancement. And then I had

a different sub team for faculty. There were two faculty

from every division, and I let them go. I said, go look at all

of the LMSs that you can look at, including the three that we

were evaluating as a part of the Sais evaluation too. But I said,

make your own rubrics. Have your conversations. I wasn't involved

in those conversations. I trusted them in their

evaluations, and they. Came back with the recommendation of

Veracross, and so that ultimately helped inform greatly

our decision to go with Veracruz for the SIS site too. But I

think by my inclination to listen first, I usually have a

sense of where I want to go, I hope as a director, but I also,

overall am not holding that fast. Now, there's some times

where there's like, when it comes to security of student

data or our constituents data, I don't really negotiate that at

all. I'm pretty fired up about it and pretty adamant about it,

but, you know, other things, I'm happy to collaborate and figure

out and CO design. I use that phrase a lot. CO design, what

that outcome needs to look like with people. That's my

inclination always.

And I love the fact that you're also

illustrating and modeling to the other senior members of the

team, what it's like to be an exceptional leader in trusting

your people. Because oftentimes, for a leader to kind of let go,

which is what you have to do, you have to let go and trust the

judgment of those that are working for you to develop,

essentially, the roadmap that is needed for whatever project that

you're trying to deploy. You have to trust them and not

micromanage. And it's really tempting to get in there and

jump in with a solution when there are other things that you

need to be strategic about, and you need to let your folks have

that agency, but also give them the opportunity to grow

themselves

exactly. Yeah, I really like that articulation.

So Anne, my understanding is that you have

seen some leadership changes in your time at St David's. You've

had some heads of school come and go, quite a few in the last

10 years. You're on your fifth head. That must take a certain

amount of change management in your realm, and that's a lot of

leadership shifting. Do you have any advice for people who might

be welcoming a new head into the school year this year? Yeah,

I would say that because I worked closely for and

with executives at Cisco. I understand what executive

leaders are looking for. So for each new interim or head of

school that I've had over the past 10 years, I have asked

myself and answered through meetings, but also just sending

some PowerPoint slides over to them, what is important for them

to know that they could tuck away that could be foundational

information about why we made, decisions we made, or where we

are today, what has been teed up as potentials for the future. So

for each of our new head of schools, I do that in the first

month that they are there. I also know that hopefully

technology is running so smoothly that that should not be

in their top five things that they need to understand, assess

and fix if it needs to be fixed. So knowing that I give space and

really allow them to come to me, I make them aware of here, I

have this diagram that shows all of the technology stack all the

way down from the baseline of our infrastructure network, all

the way up to various systems and technology devices. I have a

one page slide that articulates that so they know what it is

that I have understanding of, or knowledge of or ownership of,

and when something comes up in conversation, I'm only a stop by

a way or a email or a phone call or a text, and I would just say,

knowing that I feel like life has given me the experience and

expertise around change management and change

leadership, I know that humans go through change in an

organization's day too, as well. I mentioned earlier that I'm an

observer, so you can kind of see how people feel around the

change curve, where they are in that change curve. And I make it

a point to be a safe harbor for people to come and work through

their thoughts concerns about changes. Because whether it's a

new head of school or not. There's always some, I hope,

strategic set of priorities for each school each academic year.

And people really need time to wrestle with it, figure out how

it resonates with them, how they can be a part of it, or what

scares them about it. So I like to help support new Heads of

schools when I can just in the background, talking with people,

allowing people to be honest, and then I also help encourage

them through that change curve so they get to an acceptance

place. Do

you feel like the technology philosophy changes

with new leadership, or does that stay pretty stable? Like.

Terms of just the general approach for how tech supports

the education you're trying to deliver.

Certainly, there's been some heads of school that

have taken some steps back from technology integration in the

classroom. It made me sad, but then we were able to shift back

to where we needed to be after that head of school left.

There's also right now, safety and security, the technology

integration into buildings and into facial recognition and all

of that that is a key theme, because parents are looking for

that, and they want to know that their children are as safe as

they can be, given the unfortunate reality that our

society is in right now. But certainly they either have a hot

button or not, and if they don't, because I've worked hard

at the technology being enterprise class, it does fall

to the foundational into the background. It's just always

working, and it's always there. And so in that way, if they

aren't big tech folks, then they don't even need to worry about

it. They just know it works.

So do you have people on your team that focus on the

Ed Tech side of things? Is that in your purview and your

responsibility? What does that look like at your school?

Well, it's interesting that you say that,

because whenever I talk with Atlas, I know that we're unique,

or one of the unique schools, I think because we have

specifically not been chartered with that, I think that's a

missed opportunity. I think that it's so natural, which is why

there's so many Atlas member schools and schools who attend

your conferences that have ed tech a part of the technology

department. It just makes sense. It's not something that we have

been staffed to or chartered to do. We dabble a bit when it

comes to hey, we have clear touch interactive panels. So my

team knows how they fundamentally work, but that's

just, to me, foundational. It's not the how to apply it. Here's

interesting way of taking your lesson plans and elevating it.

That's not a space in which we operate. But in my conversations

with the past couple head of schools, I have said, you know,

it's certainly a space that is an opportunity. It just really

depends on what the priorities are for the school. In absence

of that, the responsibility falls on some faculty who are

naturally good at technology, or are really just rock stars and

comfortable with it, which is fine, but I think when you're

looking at making consistency and scalability, having a team

chartered with that makes a lot of sense.

So I'd like to tease that out just a little

bit, because I know one of the challenges schools will often

encounter is when you have that lead teacher who is outstanding

at ed tech, you have a different student experience, potentially,

yes, between teacher a and teacher B. Are you all engaged

in those conversations to avoid a disparate student experience?

We are not invited into those conversations. So No,

but I as a parent of a student here, and just being an employee

here, I would hope those conversations are happening,

because I think consistency is important. Like I said,

Education is an art. However, there is a need for a consistent

experience, especially when you're talking about the use of

an investment like a clear touch panel in lower school

classrooms, all of our lower school classrooms have one, and

then our middle school science classrooms have them. So how

teachers are using them consistently would make a big

impact on the student experience, for sure. So I am

not privy to those conversations, but I hope

they're happening.

I'm curious. Yeah, if you suddenly found yourself

in a position where the Head of School listen to you talk about

this concern about Ed Tech and how the school manages ed tech,

if the Head of School was suddenly completely responsive

and said, Anne, knock yourself out. Do whatever you want to do,

where do you think you would start or where are the areas

that you would immediately begin to focus in on

my first inclination would be try to measure where we

are from a consistency standpoint of using the

technology that we have today, whether that be systems or

devices. My second stop would be within the Atlas community and

all of my colleagues I've gathered over the 10 plus years

and say, help me. You've been leading ed tech for a long time.

So give me your wisdom. I'm a big one for leveraging my

network. And the third thing would be, if I was asked to do

this, I would absolutely ask to open up at least one recs, to

hire someone and a set of folks. In who are experts, because

that's a unique expertise. To be able to have that teaching

background and the technology background, earn that trust with

teachers. So you have to have enough credibility that you've

done what they're doing. Because no one likes to have someone

come in and say, well, as a consultant, I'm the expert in

what you should be doing. I think it's way easier when you

have someone say, I've been in your shoes. I know as a lower

school teacher, here are the things that you need to

consider. Let's partner through that. So I think I would hire

folks as well with that as expertise and background, and

then co design. And there's my phrase, again, co design the

future with the principals and with the faculty and the

divisions like after we assess and measure, how can we help

enable them to educate our kids easier? What are the barriers

and roadblocks? Because I don't want technology to be a barrier

or a roadblock at all. In fact, I see those circle it and figure

out how I can get rid of that. So it would be those kind of

conversations.

And what is the appetite for technology use by

the parents out of curiosity, given the nature of this

conversation, you know, there's a lot of negative publicity out

there in terms of trying to keep students off of screens, and to

embark on something like this would be counter intuitive to

where the direction of tech use is in schools.

I mean, I would say, when I look at my budget and the

number of devices we have, we have a lot of school owned

devices, iPads and laptops in the Lower School. We have iPads

and laptops for student use in the middle school. So we have a

lot of devices. How often they're used to support

learning? I think it varies. But from a parent perspective, I

mean, I'm one. I have a 13 year old in screen time, and he has

ADHD, so oh my gosh, that iPad and the constant streams of

watching something on TV and then researching something on

YouTube. And I tell him, how on earth can you do that? He's

like, I just do it, mom. It's just how my brain works. I'm

like, Oh, okay. Anyway, so from a parent perspective, it kind of

depends. Some parents are like, Hey, let's lean in. Let's lead

with technology. You aren't integrating it enough. And then

there's other parents who do not want their students to be having

like we have as part of our enrollment, seventh grade

through 12th, family owned devices, either a MacBook or a

Windows laptop. There are some parents who are a little

resistant to that, but overall, I think our parent community

understands that technology and having technology skills is a

very important way to prepare their children for college in

life. So it

sounds like you have quite a year on your hands in

terms of adjusting to your new title and some new

responsibilities at your school. Are there any big summer

projects or things that you anticipate tackling in this

first year with this expanded

role this year, steady state. So on the

technology space, I have done all of the big projects that I

believe could be done up into this point. So we've moved all

of our infrastructure to the cloud. We've implemented ricotta

like all of the cameras and access control and guest

management, we implemented Veracross Eight years ago. So

this summer is some device refreshes, but not huge amount.

So I would say I also am entering into this academic year

waiting to hear what the priorities are that the board

has given our new head of school, and how I can help

enable those and get us there faster. I don't know if any of

those priorities are technology. Again, my sense is that with

technology being stable and scalable, it's probably not high

on the list, because I think it's fulfilling the needs of the

school needs it to do. But who knows? Really? So open to

learning more about what it is I can do to enable it, because

that's what I think technology is as the head of school gets

his feet underneath him, and the other piece too is the data side

of the systems that I'm steward of can help enable and inform a

lot of those priorities. So I'm adamant that we have one sis,

one LMS, and they all share the same data. So there's a lot of

data that can be looked at, can be leveraged to identify

opportunities that maybe the board hasn't given the head of

school or the head of schools identified, it could also help

support that with actual hard and fast data, as opposed to

kind of senses which you know the sense of an issue comes with

experience, so I don't discount that, but anytime you can really

look and say, Okay, but what does the data show us? And. Then

overlay AI into that, where AI can be that tool that helps us

humans to see things that maybe, after looking at a spreadsheet

for three hours, we've glossed over and we've missed something

really obvious. So that's also exciting to me.

You mentioned ever so briefly, AI. Has there been

any additional conversations with your team and leadership

about the use of AI. Is that a potential project for your

school with this new head?

I think so. I think we're just at the formulation

stage. Our new head of school asked me my opinion about it,

and I said, it's a new frontier that I'm interested in learning

more about. I've had conversations with our Academic

Dean just to start partnering on what it is, what it isn't, what

it could be. We are a Microsoft school, so copilot is a part of

our operating system, and I just bought the additional add on

licensing for more integration across the Microsoft

applications. So I would say we're very early stages of

identifying the opportunity. But to me, when I think about AI and

I think about what skills students ultimately, if I

distill it down, what AI can be leveraged to teach them is

critical thinking and logic, because writing a powerful AI

prompt and knowing the art of that and the science behind it

helps you get powerful information out of AI, similar

as I tell people that teaching Students coding is really

important because it teaches them critical thinking and

logic, because as fancy and wonderful as computer systems

are and computer devices are, they're essentially dumb now AI

is not, but they are essentially do what they're coded to do. So

I think that as a school, we'll have to get over the education,

the wrestling with our faculty about what is it? Do they need

be concerned about it. It's way bigger than faculty helping to

write report card comments, which I hope they're all using

it to write report card comments and beyond academic integrity

questions, it can be bigger than that. So it'll be a delicate

balance, and the beginning of a conversation. I would not say

that St David's has faculty that, really, across the board,

lean into technology, and how can we incorporate the latest

and greatest right away. They're more deliberate than other

schools in this area, so it'll be a nuanced conversation at

first, and I also want to be intentional about identifying

what's a good first step and think about the next steps after

that. So we have a bit of a roadmap with lots of

flexibility, but we don't get too invested without making sure

we bring people along.

How about your team or the admin using it at all for

your needs? Are you playing with it?

I am. I just started playing with it more heavily,

certainly now that I just bought the additional licensing for

integration in Excel. So that's been great. I love Excel.

Between Excel and Visio, is how my brain works. So trying to

dabble in that, you know, in my side time, I'll try to read up

on things. I was just on the NAIS website and ATLAS website.

I came across the collaboration that you all did. So I have that

on my list of reading to do. So I too am trying to come up to

speed on all of it. But I am the type that loves to give things a

try, and so my team and I absolutely are looking at using

it every day, really, as much as we can

love that. So if we were to talk to somebody who is

coming into the Independent School community, regardless of

whether it's from corporate or from some other type of

background, maybe even including higher ed or other public

settings. Is there any advice that you would offer somebody

for coming into it and hitting the ground running in an

independent school setting?

So if they're coming from higher ed, they already

understand the structure of an academic institution. Because if

you don't have that idea. Meet with the CFO, meet with each of

the principals, meet with admissions, advancement, all

these different functions, if you're coming at it from a

business perspective, they all are rooted in business processes

as well. They're just named different and have different

workflows. But ultimately, you know, advancement development is

about income generation and revenue.

Yeah, those relationships are really

important.

Yeah. So I would say going through and figuring out

with a stakeholder map, if you want to be super intentional

around who are the people that I'm going to talk with and just

listen and learn. And then I would recommend. And if the

faculty are supportive, sitting in classes and seeing in lower

school, middle school and Upper School, observing a class and

really understanding what's happening in that space, because

technology is there, even for you know, a humanities class

where they're talking about US history, you may not, at first

glance, see technology, but it's there in observing the class,

you can likely see it, and then afterwards, talking with the

faculty around how they use it, how they manage what their jobs

and what they need to do through it. So would be that, I think,

going back to listening a lot, you know what your experience

and your expertise has to offer the school, but I wouldn't lead

with that. My style is to listen and observe, and once I've heard

enough offer some opportunities for me to support them. I think

servant leadership and being a enabler function, which is

technology and operations, can really help with that and really

offer that opportunity for people to feel more supported

and hopefully less frustrated. I'm

curious saying because just along those lines,

like you talk a lot about, well, this is me, and this is, you

know, how I will do this. Well, was it always like that? I think

there are attributes that fit the role really well, but you

found what really works for you. Like, was there a time before

that? Or how did you get to know yourself, and then a

professional setting with the interpersonal relationships, and

figure out, Oh, I'm an observer, and you didn't know that before,

though, and so, and then, once you realized that it helped. Can

you talk about that journey a little bit, maybe, and how you

went on that?

Yeah, absolutely. The first thing that made me smile

was I was thinking, well, therapy, of course. But beyond

that, I would say, one of my hobbies, which cracks me up, I'm

sure crack you all up too, is I really enjoy reading non fiction

books around life well lived like I've just started reading

real self care. I read books like the burnout book written by

the nagoski sisters. Overwork is another one from Bridget

Schultz. I read a lot of those type of books to provide

perspective on working environments and dynamics, but

also allows me the chance to reflect on who I am. But I would

say, generally speaking, I'm a pretty reflective person. The

older I get, the more I realize my strengths and my challenge

areas. Doing podcasts like this allowed me to reflect. I've gone

back to my alma mater several times and spoke at women in

business conferences so they understand what it's like. It's

not usually as simple as Sheryl Sandberg saying just lean in all

the time, because I did that my first 10 years, and then I had a

family, and I tried to lean in, and then I crashed and burned

because I lost balance, right? That's what's coming up for me.

But I do spend a lot of time reflecting, even if I have a

tough conversation with someone here at work, because things

aren't always kumbaya with your acoustic guitar. Sometimes

things are. You're coming at it from different angles, or

someone's having a bad day, or whatever it may be. But I do

naturally reflect and say, Okay, how did that go? Am I okay with

how I handled myself? How do I repair if it was a conflict

situation, how do I repair? Because harmony is important to

me. We spend so much time at work, and I want to do good

work, but I want to do it in a way that brings harmony to me

and to the environment I'm working in. So that also

motivates me to make sure that I'm doing the best that I can

right. I think that's so common that taking

that extra step of reflecting, it's so easy to skip, taking any

time to sit back and say, Now what happened, as opposed to

just go on to the next thing. I don't know. I've done this

podcast a long time, but I don't feel like it's helped me with

therapy that much.

No, does it require therapy from being a part of it?

Definitely not. He rolls with it.

I was going to give bill an out here, and you

need bill here to kind of provide the levity,

nice. I think we do all right. He is always very good

for that. I'll tell you what, yeah. So Ann, as we start to

wrap all of this up, I know that you've been involved in the

Atlas community, and in particular the former ECAD now

Ali Atlas Leadership Institute program. You've been a great

mentor and supporter of that program, and here we are

starting up yet another cohort this summer. We're so excited.

We'll be welcoming them very soon. Can you tell everybody a

little bit about your perspective on that particular

program?

I think it's great. I think it is so needed. I can't

imagine Atlas without it. But because we need more, not less,

technology leaders at independent schools, however,

goodness, it's a big job, and if they don't have a background

like me, or they don't have someone at their school that has

been in the position for a while and is acting as a mentor, and

they magically step into that role. It can be daunting and

scary. So this program, and the iterations of the program that

Atlas has hosted, empowers people who are interested in

understanding what what's involved. And more often than

not, they graduate, and eventually, I love seeing on

LinkedIn that they land, you know, Director of Technology

role, but sometimes they decide, hey, you know what? Maybe that's

not for me yet, or I can take this in a different way. And so

that's also really wonderful. I think that it's been a great

evolution, and it changes too and shifts what we talked about

in ECAD. There's overlap, but new and relevant things are

coming up as well, because the faculty change all the time, and

so with each faculty member that comes in, they bring their own

expertise and experience. So it's just a great offering that

Atlas has for the independent school community. So really

happy that it's there.

Yeah, me too. I mean, I think that the community of it,

the network of it, because so many of you are doing your jobs

in isolation, that having a cohort of peers that you can

call on just regularly to get a gut check on something or to

deal with something you've never dealt with before, that's the

most rewarding part of it, I think, for us on the staff side,

is that it creates this network so that maybe you guys don't

feel quite as alone in the monumental job that you're

tackling. So yeah,

absolutely, it's important. It is, and I've

always been inclined to do webinars or be a part of those

cohorts as a faculty member or a guest speaker, because I

acknowledge that my background is unique and I have something

to share to help bring other people along who might have a

different background. So if I can help them, start figuring

out, well, my gosh, how do I implement a new sis and LMS? How

do I manage that type of project? What do I need to think

about, or how do I handle change management, all of those things

I'm happy, happy to share with people, because it's going back

to my, one of my core values, giving back. And I feel like I'm

in the unique opportunity to do that. So thank you for allowing

me this new opportunity to give back in a different way.

Yeah, I feel like your LinkedIn requests are going to

go through the roof once this podcast drops. You heard it

here, folks, Ann is ready to coach you through it and to help

you out. That's right. Happy to Well, thank you, Ann, so much

for spending time with us today and for walking us down the path

of your journey. It's been really interesting to learn

about this transition that you've managed so well. I wish

you the best of luck in the upcoming school year and stay in

very close touch. Let us know if there's anything that we can do

for you, because certainly we owe you 10 times over at Atlas.

Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

This has been talking technology with Atlas

produced by the Association of technology leaders in

independent schools. For more information about Atlas and

Atlas membership, please visit theatlas.org if you enjoyed this

discussion, please subscribe, leave a review and share this

podcast with your colleagues in the independent school

community. Thank you for listening. You