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Top 5 Circuit Magazine Podcast Episodes - 2021
Episode 16th January 2022 • The Circuit Magazine Podcast • BBA Corporate Ltd
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Welcome to a special episode of the circuit podcast where we reveal the top 5 podcast episodes of 2021. 

As we move the podcast into season two, we decided to do a quick recap and go back through the archives of our first 50 episodes and put out the top 5 as decided by most listens.

In this condensed awards ceremony-esque episode, not only are we bringing you the best interviews, but we’re also bringing you the best bits of each of those episodes squeezed into one mega episode! 

So, maybe you’re a long-time circuit podcast listener, and perhaps you already have your own internal list of what you thought were the best interviews of season 1. Now it’s time to pull out your notepad and compare lists… there promises to be a few surprises!

Finally, the whole Circuit team would like to thank all our listeners for all your support, it got us through 50 episodes of season one and we're excited to be back with some amazing guests planned for the new season.

More about the Circuit:

The Circuit Magazine is written and produced by volunteers, most of who are operationally active, working full time in the security industry. The magazine is a product of their combined passion and desire to give something back to the industry. By subscribing to the magazine you are helping to keep it going into the future. Find out more >

If you liked this podcast, we have an accompanying weekly newsletter called 'On the Circuit' where we take a deeper dive into the wider industry. Opt in here >


The Circuit team is:

  • Elijah Shaw
  • Jon Moss
  • Shaun West
  • Phelim Rowe


Connect with Us: 

Circuit Magazine

BBA Connect

NABA Protector

British Bodyguard Association



Transcripts

Elijah:

Welcome to the circuit podcast.

Elijah:

And this one, we've got a special episode.

Elijah:

This is our best stuff where we're going to talk about the best of 2021.

Elijah:

As we move the podcast into season two, which is in 2022.

Elijah:

And one of the things we decided to do was to go back through the archives.

Elijah:

What are we 50 episodes now?

Jon:

50 episodes in.

Jon:

Can you.

Elijah:

That's amazing.

Elijah:

So we're going to go back through the archives.

Elijah:

We're going to pull the top episode, right?

Elijah:

Five.

Jon:

Five.

Jon:

Yep.

Jon:

So 10% of season one.

Elijah:

Okay.

Elijah:

So top five episodes.

Elijah:

Uh, we're going to pull them together into one mega episode in order to

Elijah:

set the stage for the new year.

Elijah:

Hopefully you have some favorites there, but just in case you

Elijah:

missed an episode, uh, you know, you're going to get the best of.

Jon:

It's awesome.

Jon:

Right?

Jon:

What a concept.

Jon:

And I think there's going to be a few surprises in here.

Jon:

This is a, this, this is a solid top five, but, uh, the, like I say, I think

Jon:

there's still going to be a few surprises.

Elijah:

Okay, well, so speaking of surprises, I think we should

Elijah:

let people know about the behind the scenes discussions that we

Elijah:

had, so the question was, are we going to tell everybody upfront.

Elijah:

What the top five, not only would the top five work, but in which order, right?

Elijah:

Or were we going to keep it a surprise?

Elijah:

So maybe if you are a longtime circuit podcast listener, you already have your

Elijah:

own internal list of what you think.

Elijah:

Uh, but like you said, it could be a few surprises.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

You know what I'm thinking?

Jon:

There's even people going to be making this into a drinking game.

Jon:

Right.

Jon:

You know, if we were setting it up perfectly, you know, maybe

Jon:

we should have brought this out in time for new year's Eve.

Elijah:

W w what are the things I hate is that because I I'm traveling

Elijah:

so much, sometimes I miss some of the episodes being able to participate.

Elijah:

And so I'm going to be really disappointed here.

Elijah:

If I'm not in any of the top five episodes,

Jon:

Here's another thing that the listeners don't know

Jon:

is that you don't know also.

Jon:

I know I, I know what the, uh, the five are in order.

Jon:

And so I'm going to, I'm going to give you one little spoiler and

Jon:

that is out of the three co-hosts alongside our main anchor Pelham.

Jon:

One of us.

Jon:

Doesn't feature on any of the five podcasts.

Elijah:

Oh man.

Elijah:

If that's me, I'm going to Blake hot.

Elijah:

You know,

Jon:

So,

Elijah:

this episode might not see the light of day.

Jon:

so what do you think you you're ready to jump in?

Elijah:

Uh, I am ready.

Elijah:

So the one thing I do just want to say though, is I would like to thank

Elijah:

everybody for supporting us, um, both, uh, the north American bodyguard

Elijah:

association, the British bodyguard association and the circuit magazine

Elijah:

and it's, uh, uh, and its podcast.

Elijah:

We appreciate all the support.

Elijah:

It got us through 50 episodes of season one, but we've got some really, really

Elijah:

exciting things planned for season two.

Jon:

Yeah, well said, well said, and you know, if you're listening to this

Jon:

and if you think you've got something to offer on the podcast and you

Jon:

want to jump on, then drop us alone.

Jon:

We want to hear from you.

Jon:

I'm not going to read the email address.

Jon:

I'll never get

Elijah:

So without further ado, let's jump into the top five episodes of 2021.

Jon:

Here we go.

Jon:

Okay, so starting with number five, going through them in reverse order.

Jon:

First up we've got essential or send skills for the executive

Jon:

protection specialist.

Jon:

This episode was with Pete Jenkins, came out back in October of last year.

Jon:

Do you remember Elijah?

Elijah:

I do.

Elijah:

And here's what I like to say is that Pete has been a long time

Elijah:

contributed to the circuit magazine.

Elijah:

So it was great having them on the pocket.

Elijah:

He definitely delivered a couple of jewels.

Elijah:

So, uh, that was a good episode.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

You know, uh, poems line is, you know, friend of the industry,

Jon:

friend of the circuit magazine.

Jon:

Right.

Jon:

But in this case, Pete, really, as Pete's

Elijah:

qualify for.

Jon:

you know, contributing to the magazine almost from day one,

Jon:

uh, you know, 13 plus years ago.

Jon:

So, you know, definitely big advocate and this was a great episode.

Jon:

Um, Sean was in this episode.

Jon:

So we know that's down to it's either me or you.

Jon:

That's not even going to feature and this.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

So, okay.

Jon:

Without further ado, let's get into it.

Jon:

Let's hear from Pete.

Phelim:

Open

Phelim:

source intelligence for the EP professional.

Phelim:

Is it something that everyone has to do or is it only for a few select specialists?

Phelim:

We're going to be talking with Pete Jenkins of ISS training, and we're going

Phelim:

to be looking at its applicability, not just in an academic sense.

Phelim:

In every day, operations,

Phelim:

what about the people out there that know nothing about this topic?

Phelim:

Be completely uninitiated.

Phelim:

What, what, what should they know?

Pete Jenkins:

A lot of people will Google something.

Pete Jenkins:

They'll look at a person, but then now I was just put in the

Pete Jenkins:

first lane and the second name,

Pete Jenkins:

and I think this is what people lack.

Pete Jenkins:

They just go straight to Google.

Pete Jenkins:

Bang something and hoping they're gonna come out with the results and they'll get

Pete Jenkins:

43 million hits when we don't want that.

Pete Jenkins:

We want five or six hits on that subject.

Pete Jenkins:

So it's knowing how to minimize those hits and be a bit more

Pete Jenkins:

accurate with our, with our research.

Shaun:

As long as you can work a computer or a search engine.

Shaun:

And you've got an inquisitive mind, you don't stop as soon as

Shaun:

one door closes, you look at it and you think I'll check the box.

Shaun:

What else could I use?

Shaun:

What other tools do I help to find that information, the information you require?

Pete Jenkins:

The other thing to add to that, and Sean's correct.

Pete Jenkins:

You won't find everything on the internet about a place or about a person.

Pete Jenkins:

So it's getting that background and then actually putting your boots on the ground

Pete Jenkins:

and possibly corroborating that with it.

Pete Jenkins:

A lot of people think open source is great.

Pete Jenkins:

It will tell you everything.

Pete Jenkins:

You need to know it doesn't, you've got.

Pete Jenkins:

Well, the other half out yourself, um, by the maze.

Phelim:

so, uh, is it possible to be searching for open source

Phelim:

intelligence and suddenly stumble across non open source sources?

Phelim:

Um, which, which are perhaps not allowed, is that a likely scenario?

Pete Jenkins:

Well, if you find that.

Pete Jenkins:

I would say by virtue of that fact it's open, but, um, on a recent exercise,

Pete Jenkins:

we did, we had, so identifying the, um, the captain of a certain vessel,

Pete Jenkins:

we found a spreadsheet in Denmark.

Pete Jenkins:

So listed all this personal private information about a lot of boats owners

Pete Jenkins:

that own vessels in the UK, um, which was totally unexpected and actually probably

Pete Jenkins:

a breach of the data protection act.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, because this, this document that you could learn, um, download

Pete Jenkins:

a spreadsheet, contained a lot of personal private information from

Pete Jenkins:

people's names that addresses telephone numbers and their email addresses,

Pete Jenkins:

um, which was quite a surprise, but it was there, it was on the internet, but

Pete Jenkins:

it was puts out by another country.

Pete Jenkins:

so yeah, you can find things, that you probably shouldn't be able to.

Phelim:

why don't you think that today's EP professional.

Phelim:

Needs this surely it's going to be one person in the team.

Phelim:

Uh, is, is it that everyone will be faced with needing to conduct

Phelim:

some ocean research at some stage, but w Y E P and Y O said

Pete Jenkins:

various reasons.

Pete Jenkins:

So if you've got pressure groups or, um, activists sites, you can

Pete Jenkins:

monitor those for anything that might go against your principal.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, if you're looking at life, some areas, um, some towns, some cities you

Pete Jenkins:

can actually go on their website and you can dial into their CCTV so you can see

Pete Jenkins:

what the street, um, cameras are looking at and actually get an updated view.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, there's.

Pete Jenkins:

Tweet maps where you can, let's say you've got an incident

Pete Jenkins:

in, let's say a Regent's park.

Pete Jenkins:

You could then go on to tweet, map or snap map and various other

Pete Jenkins:

sites and actually look to see who's, who's tweeting and who's

Pete Jenkins:

Snap-chatting from that exact, um, site.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, and it may give you a heads up or some of any incidents or

Pete Jenkins:

anything that's taking place there.

Pete Jenkins:

It might be a March.

Pete Jenkins:

It could be, um, a conference.

Pete Jenkins:

What have you, so it can give you things like.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, another good example is we conducted a surveillance on

Pete Jenkins:

two characters in the summer.

Pete Jenkins:

They came from abroad on a ferry and by monitoring their social media, we knew

Pete Jenkins:

exactly where they were on their journey throughout that drive on the ferry.

Pete Jenkins:

When they got off the ferry, we also knew what vehicle they were driving.

Pete Jenkins:

And when they attended this, um, this events, we knew exactly

Pete Jenkins:

what we were looking for.

Pete Jenkins:

We knew exactly what they looked like and what they were dressed in.

Pete Jenkins:

We knew the vehicle and when they talked to various people at risk events, we

Pete Jenkins:

were able to photograph those people that they're connected to and then turned it

Pete Jenkins:

back on its head and search social media.

Pete Jenkins:

And we actually found out the identities of all the people

Pete Jenkins:

that were connected with.

Pete Jenkins:

At this particular event.

Pete Jenkins:

So in conjunction with, um, conventional surveillance, we're also using open

Pete Jenkins:

source at the same time to back up the team really, and gather more intelligence

Shaun:

alongside that as well.

Shaun:

what I can find out.

Shaun:

You had initiated with a little bit of trading can find out if someone's

Shaun:

targeting you, it's pretty scary.

Shaun:

What, so what we do for today of course, to professional.

Shaun:

And I think that makes you look bad and think Jesus.

Shaun:

Yes, I do look at my security and stop posting my things all over the place.

Shaun:

I don't use the same username passwords, wherever it is.

Shaun:

You can be a bit more thought to what you're putting out there.

Shaun:

Your footprint, I guess.

Shaun:

Hmm.

Pete Jenkins:

Yeah, I agree.

Pete Jenkins:

I mean, early, earlier this year, we had to trace an individual only near

Pete Jenkins:

his Facebook details has instant.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, and Snapchat and it was quite good really for us because he likes to take

Pete Jenkins:

selfies and we demonstrate this on the course that this, this character,

Pete Jenkins:

we have to find out where he was.

Pete Jenkins:

And we established, he was in London and by taking the selfies, we took five or six

Pete Jenkins:

different selfies and family photos with.

Pete Jenkins:

Establish what parts of London it was.

Pete Jenkins:

And then literally I spent five hours on Google earth, walking the streets,

Pete Jenkins:

digitally, walking the streets of this, um, this postcode area looking for

Pete Jenkins:

these five or six different properties were, which were in the background.

Pete Jenkins:

And they established the four of them were all on the same.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, and that gave us a great heads-up because over a four year period he'd

Pete Jenkins:

been photographed on that same street.

Pete Jenkins:

So then we could go back to the client and said, this is where he is.

Pete Jenkins:

This is what we're up to.

Pete Jenkins:

Now we know exactly that he's in London.

Pete Jenkins:

We know he's on this street.

Pete Jenkins:

Do you want to go further and actually locate exactly where he is?

Pete Jenkins:

So, um, yeah, just purely by people putting pictures up, but

Pete Jenkins:

they think it's quite innocent.

Pete Jenkins:

They're actually telling us quite a lot of, um, giving us a lot of intelligence.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, although it's a selfie it's, what's in the back.

Pete Jenkins:

Yes, this was in the foreground and everything else.

Pete Jenkins:

it's a simple hack to find out when somebody's birthday is with Facebook,

Pete Jenkins:

you go onto their profile, you search within that profile for the word birthday.

Pete Jenkins:

And then all of a sudden you've got all these people going happy

Pete Jenkins:

birthday, happy birthday beat.

Pete Jenkins:

And it's like, the whole world knows my birth date now.

Pete Jenkins:

Um, not that I use it as a password or anything, but, um,

Pete Jenkins:

but it's just one little pivot point to take us somewhere else.

Pete Jenkins:

If we do not see.

Pete Jenkins:

I think for CPOs and, and what.

Pete Jenkins:

They should be Googling themselves.

Pete Jenkins:

I should say, doing research on them selves.

Pete Jenkins:

And unlike Sean said, finding out where they'd been mentioned on the internet,

Pete Jenkins:

whether it's, um, a social media handle or they've been named or their photograph,

Pete Jenkins:

um, because the main reason is recruits.

Pete Jenkins:

Also carry out open source research.

Pete Jenkins:

So if I, if, if I'm recruiting for a surveillance operator or an instructor or

Pete Jenkins:

an investigator, um, and I get 20, 30 CVS, what's the first thing I'm going to do.

Pete Jenkins:

I'm going to put their name into a search engine, the date of birth,

Pete Jenkins:

or the company that they worked for.

Pete Jenkins:

And I'm doing a quick sift first.

Pete Jenkins:

And if I see somebody dancing naked on a table in the pub, um,

Pete Jenkins:

then they're not going to be the person because I mean, in the CPS.

Pete Jenkins:

But if your principal does that search is one of the, um, the

Pete Jenkins:

security team, it just backfires.

Pete Jenkins:

So yeah, you need to clean up the, your presence on the internet for the

Pete Jenkins:

benefit of recruiters that don't, that won't dismiss you or for the benefit

Pete Jenkins:

of your, um, uh, your principal that might decide to do a quick search.

Pete Jenkins:

Cause they bought

Shaun:

it's a great point that Peter, if you are working in the industry, you

Shaun:

have to sell yourself as a professional.

Shaun:

So what is that?

Shaun:

Whatever is on your social pages and also needs to speak like you're a

Shaun:

professional and I have actually seen people, um, Lose jobs as well from

Shaun:

things that they've posted you on.

Shaun:

Principal's Yeltsin posting your pictures of the.

Shaun:

Doing whatever they're doing.

Shaun:

And people have actually lost positions because of this.

Shaun:

So yeah, for sure.

Shaun:

You need to keep an eye on what you're putting out

Phelim:

there.

Jon:

Okay, that was number five that set the scene now in, at number four.

Jon:

And this is going to answer the other big question of which cohost doesn't feature

Jon:

at all in this podcast in at number four, it was the celebrity protection deep

Jon:

dive with Anton collegian and the one and

Elijah:

Oh,

Jon:

Elijah Shaw.

Elijah:

I made

Jon:

That's right.

Jon:

You did.

Elijah:

Well, John, you got eliminated from the island, huh?

Jon:

I know.

Jon:

So, you know what, season two, I'm going to up my game.

Jon:

I've got to get into the end of the year.

Jon:

Wrap-up right.

Elijah:

But, but, but I do have to say this though.

Elijah:

None of this is really going to be possible in terms of the circuit

Elijah:

podcast, hitting the air waves without the work that you do behind the.

Jon:

Oh, well, thanks.

Jon:

You got me blushing.

Elijah:

No, right.

Elijah:

It's a sentimental moment into the year kind of

Jon:

Yeah.

Elijah:

But in terms of this episode, though, this was a really good one.

Elijah:

I enjoy talking to Anton.

Elijah:

He really has a ton of experience in the industry, but what I love it is

Elijah:

that his delivery is, is very matter of fact, it doesn't have a lot of the

Elijah:

fluff and the Hocus Pocus that, you know, some kind of put on there, exploits.

Elijah:

And, and what the craft is.

Elijah:

And so I really just liked the fact that he could talk about the realities of it.

Elijah:

Of course, it's a wonderful segment of the industry.

Elijah:

Speaking about celebrity protectionists and exciting things.

Elijah:

But, you know, there's a reality of it that if you're going to do this business.

Elijah:

You're going to have to take it seriously.

Elijah:

Uh, and you're going to have to put the work in, and I think he

Elijah:

did a great job of illustrate.

Jon:

Yeah, totally.

Jon:

You know, and one of, one of the things we're joking now, about me not

Jon:

appearing on any of these podcasts, but truly, uh, you know, when I'm not on,

Jon:

obviously it takes a lot of pressure off and I just get to listen to it.

Jon:

Uh, you know, like the rest of the listeners and, and I enjoy it a lot.

Jon:

And in particular, this.

Jon:

Is one of my own personal favorites.

Jon:

I really enjoyed this one.

Jon:

And I think the fact that you were there along with Pelham, uh, to interview Anton

Jon:

meant it just had such a great flow.

Jon:

We pulled out so many gems and I, somebody, you know, who's

Jon:

been in the industry a long time, but never worked in celebrity.

Jon:

This, this was eyeopening, and I really loved the debate in here

Jon:

about whether or not, and I think there's a kind of a unintentional, uh,

Jon:

conversation, but whether or not EAP is easier than celebrity protection.

Jon:

Yeah.

Elijah:

We, maybe we should devote an entire episode on about just that and

Elijah:

we really get some traction there.

Jon:

Yeah, this is

Elijah:

The views will go up, buddy.

Jon:

All right.

Jon:

Let's, let's jump into it.

Jon:

Then.

Jon:

Let's hear from Anton on the subject of celebrity protection.

Phelim:

Celebrity protection and EP.

Phelim:

Everybody is in the public eye.

Phelim:

We're here with Anton Kalaydjian, CEO and founder of guardian security and

Phelim:

We're going to be exploring this topic because.

Phelim:

Obviously, even for the people not in EP, we have con preconceptions

Phelim:

about what a body guard is.

Phelim:

It's evidently someone looking after a celebrity, um, what we know of course,

Phelim:

EP is much, much broader than that.

Phelim:

But Anton, what is.

Phelim:

With the way the industry is at the moment with regards to protecting

Anton Kalaydjian:

celebrities.

Anton Kalaydjian:

How long do we have on this podcast?

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean, uh, you know, Elijah and me, we both, you know, been doing

Anton Kalaydjian:

this for a very long time and we, I think we both can agree.

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's just changed dramatically with the impact on social media.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, that's been a big thing.

Anton Kalaydjian:

That's been wrong with celeb celebrity protection.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean, the way we were taught.

Anton Kalaydjian:

We'll stay out of the frame, stay out of the public guy.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Um, you know, uh, don't make it about you.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, you gotta be, if now, you know, with the social media, Everybody's a celebrity.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So I think that with that, well, we have seen a rise of new types of,

Anton Kalaydjian:

uh, Insta guards that are out there,

Anton Kalaydjian:

Social media is allowing fans to become.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And, uh, you know, and it's allowing access to clients that no one had before,

Anton Kalaydjian:

So there are a lot more accessible.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And, um, you know, you got a lot of people that are in it for

Anton Kalaydjian:

the wrong reasons instead of.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Stay in the shadows or trying to really not make a name for yourself

Anton Kalaydjian:

based on your artist's name, let them be who they are, don't ride their

Anton Kalaydjian:

coattails, uh, be your own man or woman.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Um, I think that that's a big issue with the bodyguard role, uh, right now,

Phelim:

specifically in the world of celebrity buggy for regarding what do you

Phelim:

want the uninitiated out there to know?

Phelim:

Even the people that think they know, but they don't

Anton Kalaydjian:

actually know.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I think in the, in the security world in general, I don't, I think

Anton Kalaydjian:

celebrity protection gets a black eye.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Um, I think that they have, they get a bad rap.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, I think they should know.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Um, as far as the security world should know how much really goes into

Anton Kalaydjian:

celebrity protection, they'd be amazed.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I've done.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I do both.

Anton Kalaydjian:

We do both here, guardian EPN, CP, um, and other divisions as well.

Anton Kalaydjian:

But when we walk into an EP.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, I don't want to say it's easier because that's that

Anton Kalaydjian:

discredits the EP world.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I don't, I don't want to do that, but, but it is easier because you know, most

Anton Kalaydjian:

of the time these guys are not noticeable.

Elijah:

You make some excellent points and with celebrity protection, we

Elijah:

ended up getting a black eye, but it's a blackout we give ourselves.

Elijah:

So it takes a very specialized skill.

Elijah:

The problem is, I think is that sometimes protectors have a hard

Elijah:

time communicating that to others.

Elijah:

And so they go about it the wrong way, because, because they.

Elijah:

For marketing wise, you know, for me to get the next opportunity, the

Elijah:

next job, the next business, I've got to put this image out there.

Elijah:

So

Elijah:

what

Anton Kalaydjian:

would you say to that?

Anton Kalaydjian:

Yeah, I think that image is BS right now.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean, I think you could put up anything you want, uh, and put

Anton Kalaydjian:

anything you want out there and there's no, there's no spill checks.

Anton Kalaydjian:

There's no fact checkers.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Well, I talked about this with my cousin.

Anton Kalaydjian:

He's a veteran, he's a purple heart recipient.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, and we were having a cigar by the fire at his house in Tampa.

Anton Kalaydjian:

We're just talking about.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, I was talking about, I was talking to exactly what we're talking about,

Anton Kalaydjian:

Elijah, and it's still him about why, why this angers me, why people

Anton Kalaydjian:

are just putting up smoke, smoke, smoke signals, and getting jobs.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And really they're not qualified.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And there should be some kind of fact checking system.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And he was talking about stolen valor.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And he said that there's websites that handle that for them.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I thought that's brilliant that that needs to happen.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And.

Anton Kalaydjian:

The same needs to happen in our industry would be great if we

Anton Kalaydjian:

had fact checkers out there.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And so when a guy is pushing out content or pushing his name out

Anton Kalaydjian:

really, did you really do that?

Anton Kalaydjian:

Let's let's find out.

Elijah:

you know, with corporate protection, they've got some layers,

Elijah:

they've got an HR department, you know, they, they've got people that, you know,

Elijah:

have some established business practices that know, okay, we need to, like I said,

Elijah:

to fact, check this, we need to call these references, et cetera, on our, in because

Elijah:

so many people are in the entertainment industry and maybe they're more creative.

Elijah:

Then they are, you know, businessmen and women.

Elijah:

What they'll do is they'll see a visual, like you said, you know, this 15, second

Elijah:

Instagram clip or, you know, five or six Facebook photos of, of someone standing

Elijah:

next to someone famous and they'll go yep.

Elijah:

Works for me.

Elijah:

Uh, and so, yeah, so that does become a challenge for sure.

Elijah:

It's

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's all BS, man.

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's all smoke and mirrors.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I do feel.

Anton Kalaydjian:

people need to do some more background checking on the EAP side.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean, just today, uh, you know, I, I, at sometimes I get upset

Anton Kalaydjian:

and I'm like, oh, I need his bio.

Anton Kalaydjian:

He's my guy.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I'm telling you.

Anton Kalaydjian:

He's good.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Right.

Anton Kalaydjian:

But can't be like that.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I understand, uh, the upper brass wants to see who this is and they're going to

Anton Kalaydjian:

do some background checks on the EAP side.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And, and, and, and I've learned to appreciate that and not look at it.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Like, why, why are you questioning me more?

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's like, yeah, let's show you who we got show you our cards where the CP world.

Elijah:

I want to dig in to one other piece there.

Elijah:

Well, you were talking about earlier when you said, you know, because

Elijah:

you're so immersed with these celebrity clients and the challenges that it

Elijah:

presented with them, and then you also work in a corporate environment

Elijah:

and to a degree that's easier.

Elijah:

And I can relate to what you were saying, and I knew what you were

Elijah:

getting at, but can I get you to, you know, for the listeners to

Elijah:

kind of expand on that a little bit

Anton Kalaydjian:

Yeah, definitely allows you when I, when I say easier, I don't,

Anton Kalaydjian:

you know, I don't mean, uh, it doesn't sound like what it, what it sounds like.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I'm not saying, oh, it's a piece of cake.

Anton Kalaydjian:

That's why I prefer, I said, when I, when I mentioned it, I want to say, and

Anton Kalaydjian:

the re uh, I think EAP is difficult.

Anton Kalaydjian:

It was difficult for me in the beginning.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I only got a DEP about four years ago.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, I got a C peek on my inventory.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Um, but I learned that there's so much similar though.

Anton Kalaydjian:

There's so many similarities in EPA and CB.

Anton Kalaydjian:

EPA is difficult to in its own way.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You got to do, uh, you know, the way you dress, the way you speak, your, your soft

Anton Kalaydjian:

skills need to improve, uh, where I was on a CP side, maybe your soft skills.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Weren't so clean.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, you know, you gotta, you gotta cover up your tattoos.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You gotta, you gotta, you know, put lipstick on a pig.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, you gotta do things.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You gotta do things a little more, uh, professionally, I'm not saying

Anton Kalaydjian:

that CP is not professional, but you got to step it up on the AP side.

Elijah:

In the celebrity protection area,

Elijah:

you get this kind of stress tests, you know,

Elijah:

the plan changes and they've got to make an adjustment and we thought the

Elijah:

detail's going to run for three days.

Elijah:

Now it's going to run for three weeks, you know?

Elijah:

So, and so if the agent's personality can deal with.

Elijah:

When they shift over to get an assignment in the corporate sector,

Elijah:

it does feel less stressful because there's less spinning plates.

Elijah:

And so for those that have the right temperament, they can really

Elijah:

shine in that area because again, they've been kind of battle-tested.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Yeah, I agree.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Yeah.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So I think that's a good way to put it and you, you, you nailed it.

Anton Kalaydjian:

but not knowing what tomorrow brings is what I've been doing my

Anton Kalaydjian:

whole career with the EP thing.

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's great.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, you have a detailed list on a roster of bullet sheets.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You're going to pick up the vehicle here.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You're going to go there.

Anton Kalaydjian:

This is, you know, this is when you, they're going to go to church

Anton Kalaydjian:

or they're going to go to school.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You got it all lined up.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I want to see people.

Anton Kalaydjian:

World is just like, you're a Renegade.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And you know, you just got to roll with the punches.

Phelim:

if I'm a post protection and executive protection,

Phelim:

uh, colleague out there from.

Phelim:

Th the listenership on thinking, how on earth could I start?

Phelim:

so how did you get into it?

Phelim:

Is, is there a concerted effort you can make.

Phelim:

Are you just going to be plucked from the ranks of our community?

Anton Kalaydjian:

You know, I can only speak for myself.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, I, it was a little bit of the right place at the right time for me.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You know, growing up, down here in south Florida, you know, south beach to Palm

Anton Kalaydjian:

beach, it's all club, life is a big thing.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So I was a bouncer in my young years, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old bouncing.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And, um, I, and I would, they would take me from club to club and I

Anton Kalaydjian:

would kind of clean up the club.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You know, if the club was bad at a bad rep, I'd go there and I'd fix it.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And then I'd go from club to club to the club and, uh,

Anton Kalaydjian:

the next club would pay more.

Anton Kalaydjian:

The next, it will be more.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Um, I had an artist come in, come into town and one of the clubs

Anton Kalaydjian:

that was a concert venue, and this artist was a very high risk guy.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And, and, you know, he's, he's been through a bunch of, you

Anton Kalaydjian:

know, it was very tough crowd.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You had a gang unit there, you had a helicopters yet

Anton Kalaydjian:

you had to close streets off.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And, uh, that's the kind of element this artist brought.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And this was not talking about 2003,

Anton Kalaydjian:

did, I did the job.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I executed, well, our team executed perfectly your night club.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean,

Anton Kalaydjian:

we just kept the club very clean.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And then the, and then the artist's manager is roadmap.

Anton Kalaydjian:

was like, Hey, I gotta let you know.

Anton Kalaydjian:

This is the first venue we've been to in a long time where we've had zero problems.

Anton Kalaydjian:

There's usually fights break out this, that like you go, I got to tell

Anton Kalaydjian:

you, you got a good security team.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And my boss who was running the company, the concert, uh, Pointed at me.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And he goes, oh, that's because of this guy.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So they're not.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So my story started so that the road manager is like, Hey, we're shooting

Anton Kalaydjian:

a music video down here in Miami.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Could you help us out?

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I was like, if it's cool with my boss, I'll go.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So he's like, yeah, that's cool.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So then I ended up going and that parlayed into we're going on tour.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And then we did a tour and then that's how I started.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So it was the right place at the right time, but it's not

Anton Kalaydjian:

just that it's everything, all my spirits that led up to that.

Anton Kalaydjian:

and it comes from many years of working hard and that's why every job I have,

Anton Kalaydjian:

I, I, I try to be the best at it because you never know who's looking and anybody

Anton Kalaydjian:

is trying to get into the industry.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I would give that advice, you know, whether you're protecting some rich guy

Anton Kalaydjian:

that wants to take his, uh, girlfriend's at south beach for what it doesn't matter.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Uh, treat everybody like they're.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Treat them all, uh, you know, with a knit glove and work your ass off.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I think that's, what's going to get you noticed sooner than later.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean that's my story

Elijah:

though as your role as a business owner, you know, just to kind

Elijah:

of drill down a little bit, you're making decisions off of who you're

Elijah:

going to bring in your company, who you're going to recommend on the detail

Elijah:

or, or just refer it to somebody.

Elijah:

Um, are you basing this off a skill or if it's something that you

Elijah:

see in their character, and then you're saying I can teach them.

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's character to me, it's character to me.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I mean, you know, we've got almost 400 people here and, and, uh,

Anton Kalaydjian:

on the DPCP side, there's only about 40 of us and, and, uh, we

Anton Kalaydjian:

keep that table 37 to be exact.

Anton Kalaydjian:

We keep that table.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Very close to our chest.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You know, the seat at that table is a big deal.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So, you know, oftentimes I'll get asked, uh, by random people.

Anton Kalaydjian:

They won't work and I'm like, nah, you know, you got to start with our

Anton Kalaydjian:

event division work as an event, security guard work your way up.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And it takes about a year and a half, two years for you to get really, to

Anton Kalaydjian:

the point to where we trust you here to go out and represent us and do well.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And with our clients, But, uh, I can train them if they've got

Anton Kalaydjian:

what it takes, I can train them.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And if they, if I feel like they don't have the right character, correct.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I defer to my guys, what do you guys think about.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Oh, yeah.

Anton Kalaydjian:

They'll tell me.

Anton Kalaydjian:

I like the kid, you know, he does got everything in common, but he does do this

Anton Kalaydjian:

and we'll work on whatever he does wrong.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And as a team, as a team, it takes a village to raise a child.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Right.

Anton Kalaydjian:

So that's a reality that we

Phelim:

have,

Elijah:

Yeah, I think you nailed that.

Elijah:

you know, one of the things that I think people should do

Elijah:

is identify where they want.

Elijah:

More than just saying, Hey, I want to be successful.

Elijah:

Or I want to make a lot of money, you know, say, you know, in five years I want

Elijah:

to be doing this and then take a realistic assessment and say, can I do this?

Elijah:

You know, I'm sure it's so many people look at you and they go,

Elijah:

oh, I want to do what he's doing.

Elijah:

And they don't think about the two decades you've spent getting to that point.

Elijah:

And you know, and so one of the challenges is, is that when,

Elijah:

when they see someone who.

Elijah:

Who's at the top of the game, you know, operating well, you know, working full

Elijah:

time, they try and skip steps and a lot of times, and I'm sure you, you

Elijah:

know, you know, this is that when you skip steps, you start making choices

Elijah:

that you wouldn't normally make.

Elijah:

And some of those are less than honorable choices.

Elijah:

And.

Elijah:

And then you end up putting yourself in a position where people

Elijah:

can't trust you or you get a bad reputation and then you're forced to

Elijah:

take whatever job comes their way.

Elijah:

So it's kind of this self-defeating cycle.

Elijah:

You put yourself in by trying to

Anton Kalaydjian:

jump ahead.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Yeah, yeah, no, that's a good point.

Anton Kalaydjian:

No, no shortcuts in life.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Right.

Anton Kalaydjian:

And I agree with that.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Totally.

Anton Kalaydjian:

You are having a shortcut, which might end up in not only ruining your

Anton Kalaydjian:

reputation, but somebody getting killed,

Anton Kalaydjian:

I feel like if I have any advice to give anybody getting in, is this is

Anton Kalaydjian:

exactly what you just said as well.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Don't skip steps.

Anton Kalaydjian:

Don't take shortcuts.

Anton Kalaydjian:

It's it's going to potentially ruin your career or get somebody to.

Elijah:

And that was amazing, bro.

Elijah:

Uh, I'm in agreement.

Elijah:

So thank you brother, man.

Elijah:

I really appreciate you coming on.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

So I know the great episode they are from Anton, Elijah and Pelham

Jon:

are next up at number three.

Jon:

We've got the tactical medic and their place in the CP team

Jon:

back from October last year.

Jon:

And this one is with Christine . Do you remember this one, Elijah?

Elijah:

I do one because I really enjoyed the topic.

Elijah:

Uh, I think, you know, when we get into the, the, um, the area of like

Elijah:

medic is not as sexy and in terms of our industry, but it's, it's so needed

Elijah:

and it was important to kind of.

Elijah:

Touch on a lot of those pieces that we did in the, in the episode.

Elijah:

Uh, and this is one of those where I wasn't on it.

Elijah:

So I got to listen, like you just mentioned from behind the scenes here.

Elijah:

And, and I did, I learned quite a bit as well.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

You know, and, uh, Chris is so passionate about this subject.

Jon:

I mean, we've, uh, we've had him on a few events and workshops and so on

Jon:

and it was essential that we got them on the podcast just to get, somebody

Jon:

who knows the subject, but, enthuses so much passion for it as well.

Jon:

And he, and his own story that brought him.

Jon:

To becoming, at a tactical medic and, uh, to be in such a big advocate of it.

Jon:

I mean, I think it's such a great story.

Jon:

And we're going to hear a little bit of that now in this

Jon:

short clip from the episode.

Elijah:

Yeah, this is definitely deserve to be on the list.

Elijah:

So good stuff.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

Let's hear from Chris.

Phelim:

Embedding a tactical paramedic, why it matters and why perhaps not

Phelim:

enough teams take it seriously enough.

Phelim:

We're very fortunate to be joined by Kristian, Zerkowitz and embedded

Phelim:

tactical paramedic at Amarones academy.

Phelim:

What do you think is the problem as it stands in the industry with the

Phelim:

grant Institute, tactical medicine?

Kris Zerkowitz:

I believe that today, um, people think that tactical medicine.

Kris Zerkowitz:

It's just a catch phrase and people tend to take off the tactical part

Kris Zerkowitz:

when going to, to study this type of medicine and they go straight into the

Kris Zerkowitz:

medicine because it's much easier to teach medicine to non tacticians than

Kris Zerkowitz:

it is to teach the technical part.

Kris Zerkowitz:

So we'll have a lot of people that believe that their tactical medics,

Kris Zerkowitz:

well, in the end, they are just medics and this causes a problem

Kris Zerkowitz:

when things actually go and hit the.

Phelim:

And, and what about you, um, you know, where does your

Phelim:

passion for this skillset come from?

Kris Zerkowitz:

somebody wants to ask me that question.

Kris Zerkowitz:

He said, Kris, if something goes bad, you know, w what can you do to have.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And I said, well, you know, I can rush you to a hospital

Kris Zerkowitz:

and tell you to stop bleeding.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Um, and then of course, I'm quick on the draw, so nothing will happen.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And then there's this colleague of mine said, well, Chris, all of that

Kris Zerkowitz:

is great, but I'm a tactical medic.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And if you get shot in the ass, excuse my French, then you know, I will be

Kris Zerkowitz:

able to help you right here right now while still keeping the bad guys away.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And that, that put me started to make me.

Kris Zerkowitz:

How I could be in the industry for, at that time.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Well, over 10 years and not know anything about medicine.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And I realized that I, I just had been very lucky and I, I wanted to stop

Kris Zerkowitz:

pushing my luck and become professional.

Shaun:

I see a lot of people on different teams, they have.

Shaun:

bag of all sorts of fancy things, but they don't know how to use them.

Shaun:

You know, if you don't have to use it, can't get it out,

Shaun:

then have to do the basics.

Shaun:

Well, you know, get the kid that you're going to use and make sure

Shaun:

you can use it when that call

Kris Zerkowitz:

comes.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Definitely.

Kris Zerkowitz:

I mean, w you know, having a carrying a lot of kit is really good, but in the

Kris Zerkowitz:

end, are you going to be able to use that kit in the S in the setting that you're

Kris Zerkowitz:

working in, and the paramedic is going to be reluctant to leave with a lot of

Kris Zerkowitz:

kit, because, well, they will say, well, I need all this to stabilize my patient.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And he is absolutely right.

Kris Zerkowitz:

What that is, because the paramedic is working under the ideal

Kris Zerkowitz:

conditions that are provided to him.

Kris Zerkowitz:

This is also the reason why a.

Kris Zerkowitz:

We'll not go into a building that is burning.

Kris Zerkowitz:

He will wait for the patients to get out.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Now as a tactical paramedic, of course we will not make technical

Kris Zerkowitz:

mistakes and we will not do things, put our own lives at risk.

Kris Zerkowitz:

However, we will be a better judge of how far we can go

Kris Zerkowitz:

before our lives get into a risk.

Kris Zerkowitz:

If you look at the tech protocol today, that's being taught to everybody.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Anything that's medical needs to stay way outside in the cold zone,

Kris Zerkowitz:

or it may be that, uh, the warm zone.

Kris Zerkowitz:

But if I have bleeding patients and I, I have people pinned

Kris Zerkowitz:

down, they need me there.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And then otherwise I am going to be a coroner and not a paramedic.

Shaun:

Yeah, totally agree.

Shaun:

So do you think everyone within an AP TMC, PTM, they should all

Shaun:

have tactical medical skills?

Shaun:

Or do you think.

Shaun:

Dilute their primary purpose and CP rules.

Shaun:

Well,

Kris Zerkowitz:

I believe that every executive protection agent should

Kris Zerkowitz:

have the basics of tactical medicine, um, that the basic T triple C skills,

Kris Zerkowitz:

something that they, um, well, the U S military, when they rolled out the T

Kris Zerkowitz:

triple C program said, we need a program that we can teach to every soldier.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Well, because we cannot make everybody into paramedics.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Not everybody needs to be a paramedic, but everybody needs the basics.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Everybody needs to be able to keep the paramedic as far away as possible.

Kris Zerkowitz:

From the actual action, but keep them alive.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Keep the patients alive long enough for them to get them there.

Kris Zerkowitz:

we need more medical knowledge, um, within the teams and professional teams,

Kris Zerkowitz:

I believe should invest in that and not just a five yearly course, but if, if

Kris Zerkowitz:

you go shooting every single day, Why not add a medical drill into your, in, in the

Kris Zerkowitz:

end of your shooting class, just as well.

Kris Zerkowitz:

It'll take you five minutes, but it will keep your skills sharp.

Shaun:

Yeah, for sure.

Shaun:

I agree with everything you've just said there, I mean, medical skills

Shaun:

is one of the main skills that you still have a skill fade from.

Shaun:

If you're not practicing it, if you're not going through your drills and

Shaun:

carrying out further training, um, and you see a lot of people they'll

Shaun:

do their, that course and the expiry date will be in three years time.

Shaun:

But if you don't do any.

Shaun:

No further on training during that, you're going to lose a lot of that.

Shaun:

You don't lose the skill set, but it's not as fresh as what it would be if

Shaun:

you're carrying out regular training.

Shaun:

are you seeing an emergence of tactical mental health medicine with the

Shaun:

medic technology medic can provide guidance, advice to these guys who

Shaun:

are maybe suffering from PTSD or.

Shaun:

Giving some advice, post incidents to help them with deal with trauma.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Well, w what I have noticed is that, um, fortunately things

Kris Zerkowitz:

are changing a little bit and, um, having a, somebody who is considered

Kris Zerkowitz:

very versatile in medicine, on the team, people will trust that person more.

Kris Zerkowitz:

So, you know, you can have an EPT and everybody did their teacher C training.

Kris Zerkowitz:

They went through the three days and everything is all good and TJ, but

Kris Zerkowitz:

you have somebody that they call.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Because, well, the guy, you know, has done six weeks of

Kris Zerkowitz:

study or six months of studying.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Um, and when something happens, so post-incident, um, if this person

Kris Zerkowitz:

is open to it, he will at least recognize the signs of, of somebody

Kris Zerkowitz:

needing help and needing support.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And I believe it's a big role, um, because if you are a technical

Kris Zerkowitz:

paramedic, then you have been running.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Through these trainings with your guys.

Kris Zerkowitz:

So, you know, you understand, you know, the, the alpha male dominance in, in our

Kris Zerkowitz:

industry, and you understand that nobody wants to cry about what just happened, or

Kris Zerkowitz:

nobody wants to talk about the fact that, you know, they peed themselves when they

Kris Zerkowitz:

got shot at, um, however, because you ran through with them and they know that

Kris Zerkowitz:

that, that you have been there, done that.

Kris Zerkowitz:

You are the same kind of person they will open up to you more.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And that I think Dan is a medic and the team is going to be your

Kris Zerkowitz:

responsibility to go and, and, you know, raise the flag when necessary.

Shaun:

Yeah, no, I totally agree with us.

Shaun:

I mean, every, any incident that happens, you know, everyone deals

Shaun:

with it differently and it's not about being, you know, the big

Shaun:

mountain, you know, I think everyone.

Shaun:

August the tolerance of how many incidents you can, how many close

Shaun:

calls you can have before you start.

Shaun:

You look starts running out and you start, you know, you realize, you think you're

Shaun:

pretty lucky to get through these things.

Phelim:

so Chris let's, um, I mean, this is, this is fascinating, right?

Phelim:

This is, this is fascinating testimony from you both.

Phelim:

And, and I think it really brings everything to life.

Phelim:

Uh, pardon the pun.

Phelim:

But what I'd be interested in is just maybe in conclusion,

Phelim:

what does the right skill set.

Phelim:

Look like, and where can you attain it?

Phelim:

sure.

Phelim:

We can increase people's medical skills, but what if they want to

Phelim:

become a tactical medic within EP?

Kris Zerkowitz:

what we need.

Kris Zerkowitz:

So, you know, be basic life support is not enough.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Being a full paramedic for the whole team is too much.

Kris Zerkowitz:

We need to be in between.

Kris Zerkowitz:

And there is very nice, um, courses.

Kris Zerkowitz:

The teacher will see course ITLs international trauma, life support or PHC,

Kris Zerkowitz:

prehospital, trauma, life support courses.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Like those will give more information to them, but not too

Kris Zerkowitz:

much because giving them too much information, giving them too much.

Kris Zerkowitz:

We'll lead to them.

Kris Zerkowitz:

One thing to become paramedics and then the focus shifts of protection and goes

Kris Zerkowitz:

to para-medicine like it did with me.

Kris Zerkowitz:

So we don't want that.

Kris Zerkowitz:

We just want to give them enough in which they say with this

Kris Zerkowitz:

skillset, I am confident I can do.

Kris Zerkowitz:

Basically, we, we, we want the executive protection agent to be able to look at

Kris Zerkowitz:

Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet executed by Leonardo DiCaprio and understand it.

Kris Zerkowitz:

But I don't want them to be able to read Shakespeare because if they can

Kris Zerkowitz:

read Shakespeare, they will look too much into it and they will miss skill.

Kris Zerkowitz:

I will read Shakespeare.

Kris Zerkowitz:

You just tell me what Leonardo just told, like Juliet, and then we'll be fine.

Jon:

All right.

Jon:

So we're getting closer to that.

Jon:

Number one, this, this feels like the Christmas countdown for

Jon:

the top of the charts, you know?

Jon:

Uh, yeah.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

So in number two, this was the second most listened to podcasts

Jon:

that we put out from last year.

Jon:

And bearing in mind that this came out only in October, you might see a

Jon:

trend we've got, she's got quite a few October podcasts in here and this one.

Jon:

It's a big one it's industry standards and regulation with the one and only

Jon:

Richard H did you hear this one, Elijah?

Elijah:

I missed that someone, um, uh, in person, but I got a chance to catch it.

Elijah:

Of course, when, when we got it ready for production.

Elijah:

Uh, and I think if we're talking about topics that match up with, you know, uh,

Elijah:

uh, with the interviewee, uh, that would be Richard with this one because you know,

Elijah:

the guy's opinionated, but he knows this stuff and, and he'll, he'll, he'll tell

Elijah:

you, um, he'll back up, his thoughts.

Elijah:

You know, he'll, he'll, he'll deliver the facts.

Elijah:

It'll give you his opinion, but he'll, he'll say this is why I feel like this.

Elijah:

And so, uh, so I think that always makes for a really good guest on the

Elijah:

show, because you can get a sense of it.

Elijah:

You can get a feel for them, uh, and their experiences at any conveys it, you

Elijah:

know, you know, over, over the airwaves,

Jon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jon:

Couldn't have described.

Jon:

Good.

Jon:

Better.

Jon:

He's very

Elijah:

it better, but, you know, I mean,

Jon:

No, no, no, no.

Jon:

But listen, a little tidbit here.

Jon:

There's another, um, another reward that this podcast picks up,

Jon:

Have you any idea what that is?

Elijah:

this the

Jon:

something something well it's close very, very close.

Jon:

Actually.

Jon:

I'm impressed with that.

Jon:

It's actually, we receive the longest answer to one of quickfire

Jon:

questions of all 50 podcasts.

Elijah:

Well, let me tell you, I have a feeling I'm give you a little hit.

Elijah:

I have a feeling on one of our early episodes of 2022 that we

Elijah:

already have in the can here.

Elijah:

We got that beat.

Elijah:

Yeah.

Elijah:

I don't know what the runtime is, but I'm pretty.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

I love it because you know, in 2021, there was no competition.

Jon:

So this is really got the stakes.

Elijah:

It's amazing.

Elijah:

When you can, you can be your own competition.

Elijah:

Uh huh.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

Well, you know, without further ado, let's have a recap on this fantastic

Jon:

episode from rich H and the team on industry standards and regulation.

Phelim:

does the EP industry need more regulation or less regulation?

Phelim:

We're here with Richard Aitch we're going to be looking at licensing.

Phelim:

What do you think is sort of wrong with the current.

Phelim:

Landscape.

Phelim:

What, what problem do you think needs to be solved?

Rich Aitch:

That question I could, I could answer.

Rich Aitch:

Oh, how long have you got really, basically is the answer to that one.

Rich Aitch:

I could it on and bore you to tears for eternity, the industry as a whole, I

Rich Aitch:

think in order to look at the future, you need to look at the past, um,

Rich Aitch:

specifically in the last week decades.

Rich Aitch:

In answering the question, is the industry in a better place

Rich Aitch:

now than what it was pre SIA?

Rich Aitch:

The answer has to be, yes, it is.

Rich Aitch:

And the answer is yes, because, um, the two limits of the SIA one was to

Rich Aitch:

remove the criminality of the industry.

Rich Aitch:

And the second was to raise standards.

Rich Aitch:

So in terms of answering your question, um, I mean the industry is annoying to me.

Rich Aitch:

It is, it actually gets me frustrated because, um, the various, uh, excuses

Rich Aitch:

now concerning the level of the training, there's, there's a certain level of

Rich Aitch:

acceptance that this is our lot in life.

Rich Aitch:

We have to deal with it and get on with it.

Rich Aitch:

Stop the negativity, stop whinging about the training.

Rich Aitch:

Stop whinging about, um, the standards Alba.

Rich Aitch:

And yet if we don't whinge, nothing will happen.

Rich Aitch:

so in terms of where we are with the industry, Um, yes,

Rich Aitch:

we're in a better place, but is the actually fit for purpose?

Rich Aitch:

And the answer is no, it's not, and it's not fit for purpose because

Rich Aitch:

anyone can enter the industry.

Rich Aitch:

The training is poor and there's no oversight.

Rich Aitch:

And so what, where where's the industry left with the industry is left with a

Rich Aitch:

watered down service that is for the most part unfit for purpose for the end

Rich Aitch:

user, who is acquiring that service.

Rich Aitch:

That may be serious.

Shaun:

Yeah.

Shaun:

The passion coming up with your voice, you know, it really frustrates you, the SIA,

Shaun:

how it's all being rolled out, flipping back, what do you thinks been positive?

Shaun:

What have they done?

Shaun:

Right?

Shaun:

Are they done anything right?

Shaun:

That you think you, you mentioned?

Shaun:

I think one positive was getting rid of the criminal.

Shaun:

From many years ago.

Shaun:

So that was a positive thing.

Shaun:

Bringing in licensing.

Shaun:

What else do you think the SIA has done?

Shaun:

Right.

Shaun:

If anything in your eyes,

Rich Aitch:

nothing, they haven't done anything like that.

Rich Aitch:

they all have sloppy shoulders and say that, um, that's my lovely remit.

Rich Aitch:

That's the responsibility of the employer.

Shaun:

So they they're allowing a relationship to take place

Shaun:

at the minimum standard.

Shaun:

And then the pushing the book to the employer.

Rich Aitch:

Absolutely.

Rich Aitch:

So SIA, why isn't there to have your license required.

Rich Aitch:

You're basically telling me that a school leaver without a driver's

Rich Aitch:

license who is half blind, half deaf, who gets out of breath, walking up a

Rich Aitch:

couple of flights of stairs can attend a two week course and performing.

Rich Aitch:

Service serious service to an end user who actually may have,

Rich Aitch:

let's say respect to life.

Rich Aitch:

When you actually look at other countries, whether you agree with the

Rich Aitch:

SIA level or not, and you look at other countries, let's take the us, for example.

Rich Aitch:

So making a comparison between the SIA and the us, there's almost an argument

Rich Aitch:

of saying there isn't a company.

Rich Aitch:

Yes.

Rich Aitch:

I ate a lot up here.

Rich Aitch:

The U S the down here, and that's basic that's basically, um, because

Rich Aitch:

yes I have is a government body.

Rich Aitch:

The U S doesn't have long.

Rich Aitch:

There's nothing at federal federal level that impose a set of standards.

Rich Aitch:

Some states don't even recognize close protection.

Rich Aitch:

Some states say all you need is a concealed carry weapons permit.

Rich Aitch:

Some states actually impose, uh, I think it is, um, uh, Vegas or maybe

Rich Aitch:

incorrect impose a minimum standard of a, uh, personal protection specialist.

Rich Aitch:

I think they call it, but we, I think we're talking two states out of the

Rich Aitch:

over 50 states that have a set of standards they need to pass, but

Rich Aitch:

those standards are still very low.

Rich Aitch:

What's the private sector do about that in the United States?

Rich Aitch:

Well, I mean this whole discussion thing that the industry on a

Rich Aitch:

global scale now is fantastic.

Rich Aitch:

People are talking about close protection.

Rich Aitch:

People are talking about, uh, how to raise standards out there.

Rich Aitch:

But for me, it's what, what is the end result of this talk is talk.

Rich Aitch:

Yes, there are seminars, there are courses and so on and all the rest of

Rich Aitch:

it, but there's no, there's nothing that imposes that bottom line standard.

Shaun:

when I joined the industry, it might have what your background was and

Shaun:

it mattered what course you've done.

Shaun:

You know, people looked at you with the, the provider you're trained with,

Shaun:

and you've got a bit of kudos because you invested in yourself and you'd went

Shaun:

to this provider to do that course.

Shaun:

And I think that's been lost now with the rollout of the SIA and the license

Shaun:

requirement because now absolutely tick box or entering the industry.

Rich Aitch:

So it's it's, unfortunately you can have people that will actually

Rich Aitch:

go out their way and look for that best trading possible and spend longer on the

Rich Aitch:

trading, spend more of that harder and money on the training and end up with

Rich Aitch:

exactly the same license as someone else.

Rich Aitch:

The whole thing is, uh, is, um, then are say it's it's, uh, the whole thing is

Rich Aitch:

shrouded in a, uh, a smoke and mirrors effect where, um, you have training

Rich Aitch:

providers and operational companies.

Rich Aitch:

Providing a service, the training or place or service done under the

Rich Aitch:

banner of, um, we provide the highest standards we go above and beyond the SIA.

Rich Aitch:

We, we know what you need.

Rich Aitch:

We can provide it in reality as far from the truth.

Rich Aitch:

Um, companies will say we've got strategic partners in reality, they don't.

Rich Aitch:

What is an end-user a client actually receiving on the ground and when

Rich Aitch:

someone says, oh, I've got 10 years experience in close protection, what

Rich Aitch:

exactly does that experience involve?

Rich Aitch:

I can be following someone.

Rich Aitch:

I can be following someone around.

Rich Aitch:

I can be starting vehicles sat in hotel lobbies for 10 years.

Rich Aitch:

Is that the experience is that really experienced of close protection?

Rich Aitch:

Now it's not, anyone can follow someone around.

Rich Aitch:

Anyone can, can be sat in the car or hotel lobby, but it's actually

Rich Aitch:

what you're doing with your head.

Rich Aitch:

What are you actually looking out for?

Rich Aitch:

Are you being proactive in your, uh, threatened risk mitigate.

Rich Aitch:

It's the client actually receiving a service.

Rich Aitch:

He thinks he has bought from a company.

Rich Aitch:

Going back to your question Pelham, there are digressing slightly.

Rich Aitch:

Yes.

Rich Aitch:

There are huge positives taken from the industry.

Rich Aitch:

The industry has, um, increased.

Rich Aitch:

For the better over the years, without a doubt, it has, but let's

Rich Aitch:

not forget what was the start point to start pointing with?

Rich Aitch:

So low, you're talking about courses and gouges at the bottom of a garden to

Rich Aitch:

now you have a, a licensed post-tests.

Rich Aitch:

You have a somewhat vetted process in terms of criminality, you have a

Rich Aitch:

proper regulated and licensed industry.

Rich Aitch:

You have an imposed set of standards for a course, and you have an industry

Rich Aitch:

where more knowledge about the service is now present than it was decades ago,

Rich Aitch:

but it should be actually stay there.

Rich Aitch:

Should we actually say wow, pat ourselves on the back, we've done a great job.

Rich Aitch:

No.

Elijah:

Okay, let me start with this.

Elijah:

I don't know what the number one spot is.

Elijah:

So this is going to be a surprise to me as well.

Elijah:

Okay.

Elijah:

So I just, I just want to key up the audience, let them know we're getting

Elijah:

this reveal at the exact same time.

Elijah:

It's like the Grammys, you know, when you go to the award shows and you open up the

Elijah:

envelope, but the presenter learns this at the exact same time as the audience now.

Jon:

It's true.

Jon:

This, this, this is going to, this is going to be live for a fact.

Jon:

So listen, I'm going to try to tease this out of you though.

Jon:

I'm going to make you work for this.

Jon:

So first of all, I'm going to give you a clue and that is it's one of the

Jon:

podcasts that you co interviewed on.

Elijah:

Uh, I don't know if that narrows it down though, bro.

Jon:

well, it does narrow it down.

Jon:

That's the whole thing it's just with.

Elijah:

Yeah.

Elijah:

Not by much.

Elijah:

Alright.

Elijah:

Um, okay.

Elijah:

Let's let's can I, can I get a genders or the male or female guests?

Jon:

no, I'm not going to tell you that right yet.

Jon:

However, what I will tell you is that this, as an early

Jon:

podcast, it came back in March.

Elijah:

No bro.

Elijah:

I'm John a blank.

Elijah:

I mean, I can't remember what happened last week.

Elijah:

Definitely.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

When this podcast came out within its first week, it shot to the

Jon:

top of listening to favorites and it's remained there since.

Jon:

So all the way from March of last year through to today, it is still

Jon:

the number one most listened to listen to his favorite podcast.

Elijah:

So, so two things, one that's amazing.

Elijah:

And to.

Elijah:

I'm drawing a mental blank because I see these lists, you know, I know what our,

Elijah:

uh, our subscriber, uh, listening, uh, ratio is in terms of our charts, but I

Elijah:

can't remember exactly which one is this.

Elijah:

So I think that kind of speaks more to me and, um, uh, my, my

Elijah:

lack of room in my brain and it's hard drive than anything else.

Elijah:

So I'm excited, man.

Elijah:

You, you got me waiting.

Jon:

Yeah, I, and you know, I take my hat off to you because I did offer to tell

Jon:

you this before we went live with the recording, but you wanted to do this live.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

Guest is one of our female guests.

Jon:

Does that help?

Jon:

You were on it, you spoke to, uh, you asked the questions.

Jon:

It was the one I know only Miranda, Coupole say on behavioral

Jon:

analysis and human trafficking.

Jon:

You remember

Elijah:

a, oh, sure, sure.

Elijah:

It's a great episode.

Elijah:

I mean, I interviewed a few female guests, so I was, I was, you know,

Elijah:

I didn't want to just jump right out and say it was, it was her.

Elijah:

Uh, but that was a great episode again.

Elijah:

Um, another practitioner that really knows her craft well, she's very artistic.

Elijah:

She can explain that things, you know, I get, it was just a really good episode

Elijah:

and she's a wonderful individual.

Elijah:

Like just our interactions and stuff have been great.

Elijah:

Uh, she's been a wonderful supporter of the podcast and the circuit in general.

Elijah:

So, uh, I'm really happy.

Elijah:

She made the, the number one spot, the pole.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

And what do you think it is about this podcast?

Jon:

Made it so popular with.

Elijah:

Um, again, I just think she did a great job of conveying the subject.

Elijah:

Uh, what I think the topic two was a little bit underserved.

Elijah:

Uh, so I think it was prime, uh, just to be talking about something like that.

Elijah:

When people think about the protection industry, they just

Elijah:

thinking about guns and drop kicks.

Elijah:

And I do think patting ourselves on the back that the circuit podcast

Elijah:

does a wonderful job of exploring the, the wider realms of protection

Elijah:

and the different nooks and crannies that you can find yourself into the

Elijah:

industry and what Miranda she's, you know, she's, she operates in a segment

Elijah:

that's very valuable, but maybe.

Elijah:

A little under-serviced, uh, it doesn't get as much exposure and she did a

Elijah:

great job of kind of bringing that, that part to life, to light maybe

Elijah:

to life, both, both are appropriate

Jon:

Yeah, she definitely shown light on it and she put a lot of life into it.

Jon:

That's for sure.

Jon:

I

Elijah:

the banks, but to say bro, that's, that's why we got you, man.

Jon:

I really enjoyed this one and you know, I, I think, uh, I

Jon:

even said this, I think I did.

Jon:

I actually think I got the, in the intro to do on this one.

Jon:

And I remember at the time, listening to this interview and thinking.

Jon:

How amazing it is that, you know, we're putting this podcast together, you know,

Jon:

for the listeners, but also for ourselves.

Jon:

I mean, like, this is so self-serving, but I took so much away from this.

Elijah:

No bro, that I, this is what I was trying to convey.

Elijah:

And sometimes I don't have the right words to say it, uh, which is weird

Elijah:

because, um, you know, hosting a podcast.

Elijah:

But, uh, one of the greatest things that I love about the circuit

Elijah:

podcast is the guests that we have.

Elijah:

Our guests that I would want to listen to, that I would, would want to just

Elijah:

sit back in the car or be at the gym on the treadmill, hit the play button.

Elijah:

And so, you know, to your point, even though it's unfortunate because

Elijah:

of our operational schedules, we missed the recording sometime it's

Elijah:

still fun to play, catch up and be, you know, just a fly on the wall.

Jon:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jon:

Okay.

Jon:

Well, should we let the listeners hear?

Jon:

It's the number one?

Jon:

Most listened to podcast of 2021 of season, one of the circuit podcast,

Jon:

Miranda coupled say behavioral analysis and human trafficking.

Elijah:

Good stuff.

Phelim:

Behavioral analysis and the executive protection

Phelim:

professional of tomorrow.

Phelim:

What a big topic, but what an important topic we're going to be joined by

Phelim:

Miranda Kaposi director MC global consultants, big friend of the industry.

Phelim:

Excellent speaker.

Phelim:

You've probably seen her on many, many stages as a keynote,

Phelim:

giving us an insight into.

Phelim:

Not just human behavior, but it's applicability to the security industry.

Phelim:

So Miranda behavioral analysis.

Phelim:

What is your biggest gripe with the industry as it stands

Miranda:

as it stands?

Miranda:

Um, well, I, I believe that it's really a necessary need for the industry

Miranda:

right now, especially because the world is so evolving and so much also

Miranda:

online evolving that we are almost confused in what is emotion and what

Miranda:

is not, what is the right behavior and what is not all the cultures almost.

Miranda:

Getting mixed up in the online world.

Miranda:

And we now see what, although that this year traveling, but with all the travel

Miranda:

and all the cultures that we experience and all the different groups of people.

Miranda:

That's at that it's really time to understand their way of thinking.

Miranda:

We don't live in our little villages anymore.

Miranda:

We have to go out and especially in this industry of security.

Miranda:

Um, and as Elijah knows with, uh, with AP and CP and you travel with your

Miranda:

clients, you coming, you know, you step into the lives of different families

Miranda:

and you just have to know who they are, how they think, what they feel

Miranda:

and what is normal observable behavior.

Miranda:

one

Elijah:

of the reasons why I think this topic is so fascinating is because in

Elijah:

our industry, Sometimes the mindset is we're here to kind of clean up the mess.

Elijah:

But, but in theory, if we understood the motivations about why people do

Elijah:

it, thing that helps us prevent it.

Elijah:

I can already tell that you're approaching it from like a mindset

Elijah:

of let's, you know, let's, let's figure out why a person is doing it.

Elijah:

Uh, and it gives us some extra tools though.

Elijah:

Do I have that

Miranda:

right?

Miranda:

Yes, absolutely.

Miranda:

I, I, I really believe because people make it look like rocket

Miranda:

science and I want to show you guys, it's all, not that complicated.

Miranda:

We all who we are.

Miranda:

We are all humans.

Miranda:

We all have the same kind of brain.

Miranda:

It just works a little bit different sometimes because of

Miranda:

our upbringing and our, you know, culture that we, that we came from.

Miranda:

But in essence, we can all understand it if.

Miranda:

Don't you just listen.

Elijah:

So when we're talking about, you know, detecting specific behavioral

Elijah:

anomalies and trying to figure out why a person does a thing, are you saying

Elijah:

that that's something that anyone can.

Miranda:

Anyone can learn the basics.

Miranda:

Anyone can learn to understand the basics.

Miranda:

just stand still for a minute and just ask, like, what

Miranda:

is really the problem here?

Miranda:

Is there a problem here?

Miranda:

And.

Miranda:

What do I need to do?

Miranda:

If a problem occurs here, just look around, ask yourself questions and why is

Miranda:

a certain person behaving a certain way?

Miranda:

Is it normal that I do it that way?

Miranda:

I learned to look at yourself.

Miranda:

So, uh, when you feel like you're getting stressed at that point, really just take

Miranda:

a breath and, and think of your thing, like with yourself and about yourself.

Miranda:

What am I doing here?

Miranda:

What am I for?

Miranda:

Usually when you're under stress, you immediately react.

Miranda:

That's neurologically.

Miranda:

That's how we are, you know, but you can learn to.

Miranda:

Step back for a little bit, especially for instance, a lot

Miranda:

of people have those triggers.

Miranda:

It's just a little snap, what the reality and that normally we all,

Miranda:

you know, need that, but sometimes we don't and that's because we have

Miranda:

just wired that way when we need it.

Phelim:

you also work in the human trafficking space, or at least you

Phelim:

support charities and initiatives, what parallels and lessons can

Phelim:

be drawn between the two sectors.

Miranda:

So it's all about questioning.

Miranda:

If you see something that seems normal because we were all in the

Miranda:

train and yes, sometimes somebody has to go to the toilet on the train.

Miranda:

But if that behavior seems off, always listen to your gut feeling,

Miranda:

take a breath, look around you.

Miranda:

What are where's that person coming from?

Miranda:

How is he come?

Miranda:

Or she coming out?

Miranda:

Usually, unfortunately still the heat, but also the victims in human trafficking.

Miranda:

How can you recognize a person because of victim is not walking

Miranda:

around with a sign helped me.

Miranda:

I'm a victim.

Miranda:

But they have certain personality traits.

Miranda:

Like they don't dare to look up or to other people.

Miranda:

They are kind of nervous or they're really quiet.

Miranda:

They're sitting by themselves, or they are watching at a certain

Miranda:

person all the time while the person is not standing with them.

Miranda:

But on the other side, for instance, at the gate as a narrative, If you just learn

Miranda:

about just normal human behavior, really?

Miranda:

What is normal human behavior?

Miranda:

We all in essence, no debt.

Miranda:

And we all in essence know a little bit about what's off.

Miranda:

And if you don't know that you can ask and learn about it

Miranda:

you'd never know what the, what are you?

Miranda:

Attention, intention.

Miranda:

Sorry off the person in.

Miranda:

So always, that's why I always teach people, be curious,

Miranda:

ask yourself questions.

Miranda:

So,

Phelim:

so I think you've written about this virtual DNA.

Phelim:

You talk about your footprint, virtual DNA.

Phelim:

It sounds like a cool or scary term.

Phelim:

Depends how you look at it.

Phelim:

Can you tell us a bit about.

Phelim:

Is

Miranda:

that this really every click you do on your computer, wherever

Miranda:

you are on whatever, whatever website online, you leave a trace.

Miranda:

And there are companies that are following that trace and

Miranda:

they are buying the information.

Miranda:

Also, there is sort of brokers, almost death, collect information and sell it.

Miranda:

So from everyone, no one accepted, there is an Iranian profile.

Miranda:

Online.

Miranda:

So there is another you, it's not you, but it's the digital

Miranda:

you, it's what you do online.

Miranda:

And it doesn't mean an issue because

Miranda:

that's the same as when you talk about something, all of a sudden you see export.

Miranda:

On Facebook or, and you're like, that's a coincidence.

Miranda:

I just recently spoke to someone about this and that is your DNA

Miranda:

footsteps really, uh, that you make.

Miranda:

Although, it's not totally you, there are companies that really

Miranda:

want that stuff and targeting it same with specially criminals.

Miranda:

Yes.

Elijah:

So if I'm already doing cost protection work and maybe I work

Elijah:

full-time or I'm looking at transitioning.

Elijah:

You know, how is it, what would you do and what you teach

Elijah:

that helps someone's skills?

Miranda:

Well, for instance, if we stayed to, to your profession, um,

Miranda:

how do you, you know, if you do an advance, you already want to know,

Miranda:

for instance, at a hotel, who do you get cooperating when, when your client

Miranda:

and you arrive and something happens who opens the back door, um, who has

Miranda:

a certain room for you available?

Miranda:

So you try to.

Miranda:

Recognized the right people for your project.

Miranda:

So

Miranda:

the little tricks.

Miranda:

That, that you can learn because usually if you don't train them, And

Miranda:

if you hear them one time, you just go back to your old default setting.

Miranda:

And once you were under stress and you have to arrange things, you go back

Miranda:

to what you know, but if you repeat things and learn things, you make new

Miranda:

neural pathways and it becomes easy.

Elijah:

I, I agree.

Elijah:

Um,

Elijah:

we might think we know something, but we're looking at it through

Elijah:

our own lens as opposed to the environment or the culture that was.

Miranda:

Yes, it's always good to learn a little bit about the

Miranda:

country that you're going through

Miranda:

And what is.

Miranda:

Their normal daily routine of those people, what are they doing?

Miranda:

What is the way they communicate with each other?

Miranda:

So especially with NEP, when you just start traveling really.

Miranda:

Educate yourself.

Miranda:

You know what?

Miranda:

Some movies watch some documentaries as people in your surroundings.

Miranda:

I always say, create that steady group of peers that you can consult.

Phelim:

Just ask.

Phelim:

I love it.

Phelim:

It's so simple yet.

Phelim:

Why don't we do.

Miranda:

It's also because a lot of people who dare to ask, right.

Miranda:

It's uh, some people think they should know it all.

Miranda:

I think that's also a barrier we need to break.

Miranda:

We cannot be all knowing and that's okay.

Miranda:

That's why,

Phelim:

and that's why we invite people like you onto the podcast

Phelim:

so that we can know a bit more.

Phelim:

Well, Miranda, it's been a pleasure.

Phelim:

Um, I know you're very active on the BBA connect app.

Phelim:

Uh, thank you for that support and you're very active in the whole

Phelim:

community, so it's nice to bring the pages of all of that to life.

Phelim:

So from a leader and myself, thank you very much for joining us.

Miranda:

You're so welcome.

Miranda:

That was so fun.

Jon:

All right.

Jon:

So though we have it.

Jon:

That's the number one most listened to podcast.

Jon:

And your top five of 2021.

Jon:

I hope you enjoy the recapitalize.

Jon:

Your

Elijah:

Well, I definitely enjoyed it.

Elijah:

I believe this is it too, but I'm also really excited.

Elijah:

In, particularly for the longtime listeners, if their

Elijah:

lists matched our list.

Elijah:

And if not, you know, I would dig it.

Elijah:

If they kind of messaged us, they can use the, uh, NAB a protector app or,

Elijah:

uh, the BBA connect app, let us know or find a sort of socials and say, Hey,

Elijah:

your list is BS compared to my list.

Elijah:

My favorite episode was such it's like, I know if I had to speak personally,

Elijah:

I would say my favorite episodes are just the ones that you appear on John.

Jon:

Yeah, no.

Jon:

I knew that we knew that.

Elijah:

I left you speechless.

Elijah:

I love that.

Jon:

The outtakes, right.

Jon:

We, we probably could have put out a longer outtake episode.

Elijah:

Oh, that would be hilarious.

Elijah:

I think that's what we should do for sure.

Elijah:

Uh, but I think the great thing is though we had a really good 20, 21 in

Elijah:

terms of listener engagement, but we definitely have plans to do much more.

Elijah:

Um, in 2022, we've got some great guests already lined up.

Elijah:

We've got some episodes in the can, uh, and, and we've got some big plans.

Elijah:

So I hope everybody sticks around and, and joins us for season two of the circuit.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

Tell us what you want to hear, tell us who you want to get on as guests,

Jon:

you know, and we'll do our best.

Jon:

I'm really

Elijah:

John

Jon:

it.

Jon:

Yeah.

Jon:

More John, definitely

Elijah:

good stuff, man.

Jon:

All right.