When you think of turn of the Twentieth Century writer Jack London, you immediately think about of the Yukon and his most famous works like White Fang or Call Of The Wild. And in fact, Harrison Ford returns to the screen next week with the latest version of the classic novel (written from the dog’s perspective, there are few works like it!)

Jack London led a tumultous and adventurous life, just like his characters. And he didn’t just write stories about the Gold Rush to Alaska, but also wrote plenty of ghost stories and science fiction. And even though he was an avowed atheist, that didn’t mean that the rest of his family was. And that doesn’t mean that the people around him didn’t experience paranormal activity like:

• His mother was a spiritualist , who was would channel the spirit of Indian leader, Black Hawk
• His father was a famous astrologer
• His second wife, Charmian claimed she saw the ghost of Jack London shortly after he died
• People say her ghost haunts the home she built on their ranch after his death
• One of the most common themes in his work, atavism (or genetic memory) actually has a basis in science!

So whether it was the rejection of his real father or the fact that his mother famously attempted suicide twice after she found out she was pregnant, Jack London wasted little time in his life. In fact, two months before he died he said this quote to his friends that would later be known as his credo:

I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time.

Jack London

Welcome to See You on the Other Mike, where the world of

the mysterious collides with the world of entertainment.

A discussion of art, music, movies, spirituality, the

weird and self discovery. And now,

your hosts, musicians and entertainers who have their

own weakness for the weird, Mike and Wendy from

the band Sunspot. Episode 283,

The Call of the Wild, the paranormal world of

Jack London. Wendy, when you think

of turn of 19th so, actually, turn of 20th century author,

Jack London, what do you think of? Well, of course, I always think of dogs.

Yeah. That's the first thing you think of. Because I think we read White

Fang, Mike, in middle school or something like that. Oh, yeah. So and then, of

course, the Call of the Wild which is gonna be a movie soon,

I understand. Right. Coming out. My favorite meme so far

is with, Harrison Ford and the dog from the Call of the

Wild. Buck. Buck. And but you see it's like a

picture from the set of Harrison Ford, like, hugging the dog. And

the meme says, when the shrooms wear off and realize that you're

not like an intergalactic space pirate with a wookie. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah.

That was hilarious. Yeah. I thought that was a good one. Pretty good.

Thinking, the old man. Anyway So oh, well, that

that clarifies my question about which character was Harrison Ford gonna play?

Because I was wondering if he was gonna portray Buck. Right. He just runs around

in all sorts of ways. Like Mike new cats movie. Oh, yeah. You know, they

have the people all dressed up like cats. Yeah. But no. Sounds like

he's actually gonna be human. Okay. Well, he's gonna be the I mean, there's one

character in Call of the Wild that's not completely cruel to animals. Right. Right.

But, you know, every time you think about Jack London, you think about the

Yukon. You think about the Gold Rush,

which seems like a very unique part of American history, at least,

because it's I mean, now when people I guess I

guess there's a gold rush in technology, everybody moving out to Silicon Valley

or whatever. Right? You know, there's gold rushes in there, but you need some

kind of brains to do that. Right. I mean, for

the the Yukon Gold Rush, you just had to know how to survive,

basically. Mhmm. And, like, enough to get up there and then, of course, how to

pan for gold or whatever. Right. Find the right spots. But it didn't take a

special I mean, I guess, survival is a skill in those days. But, you know,

it's not like you're just hopping on the highway and cruising on up there. But

Right. But, yeah, you didn't need to know how to program a to code an

app or something like that. No. You just go there. You have to know how

to do a pan, and you probably have to be able to eat and figure

out what you do in the cold, which is my favorite Jack London story, which

is to build a fire. Oh, yeah. And if you so

spoilers for the ending of this one. The guy,

he's, an arrogant person that thinks that he knows how to handle that

Alaskan cold. He thinks. He thinks. And then all of a

sudden, things go wrong and he's desperate to build a fire

and it doesn't work out well for him. So his arrogance backfires

and then, right. And then he freezes to

death. But I I did not realize that we were, you know, researching Jack

London because the upcoming movie, Call of the Wild and, like, I wonder if

anything paranormal happened in Jack London's time or anything

he was interested in stuff like that. Yeah. But looking into it,

find out that the original version of To Build A Fire was a children's story,

and he pulls out in the end. He builds the fire, and he's saved. And

he rewrote it with an unhappier ending.

A more adult ending. Yeah. So something it's Mike like a warning. You

know, the kid and the kid finally, the guy pulls through. So the thing is

if you want a happy ending to build a fire, it's actually there. You can

find it. Like, the version we read in grades or in junior high or whatever,

is is a downer. But if you want a happy version of Tabula of Fire,

he made one. And you don't realize how,

prolific these guys were Yeah. When they were being paid by the

word. It's amazing. Yeah. I mean, Jack London, I just

thought he wrote a few books about the Yukon and stuff like that. But

when you find out that he's written, you know, hundreds of

stories and all different kinds of stories, not just adventure stories

with Charlton Heston or Harrison Ford or things, but, even

science fiction. And we'll talk about that more in a second. Yeah. It was

fun actually learning more about him as a person and,

because he was, like, one of the literary rock stars.

And he actually was able to get wealthy while he was still alive. Right.

So that didn't happen for a lot of people. No. As compared to someone like

H. P. Lovecraft who lived at around the same Mike, except H. P.

Lovecraft was a little bit later, a few years later. Mhmm.

And Poe was similar too. Right? Mike, he didn't Oh, Poe didn't have any

Yeah. He was he was Poe. Right. Poe was Poe.

And Poe was back in the 18 forties. Mhmm. But,

Poe had to make most of his money as a literary critic. So the

person, as we think of, is one of the most famous write famous American

writers of all time. Right. Just wasting his time reading other people's

stuff. Right. In his life, he was reading other people's stuff, critiquing it, and

drinking himself to death, While Jack London was

at least writing his own stuff And drinking himself. Himself to death. Well,

as well. So the thing is, he does have some interesting,

paranormal connections. But, Wendy, what do you think is the most interesting

nonparanormal part of his life? Well, I think,

to me, just I was shocked to see what a short life

he had Sure. And how much he did in that short life.

Because his biography just goes on and on and on, and it's almost like

he's lived the adventurous lives of 3 people. Tight men. You know?

Yeah. And when he was a young boy, he was really inspired by

the reading that he did. So he went to the library and just read

everything possible. And he was totally enamored by the adventurous

romantic lifestyle of, like, leaving town and

living on the sea or or, you know, heading up north or just he

was just obsessed with that. And then he went ahead. And when he was old

enough, he did it. Right. So I guess, yeah, I think that that was just

the biggest thing that I learned about was just how much he packed in because

he only lived to 40. Right. At age 40. So if he was our

age, he'd be he'd be dead. Done. Yeah. Like, that's it. We

have 3 years on him, and I have never been an oyster pirate. Right. And

I've never fought in a war or spent a month in prison. Or Right.

Okay. Number 1, if you guys don't know what an oyster pirate is,

it's one of my favorite new kinds of pirates. So weird.

And so what's a little I mean, because the thing is, there were

oyster poachers in San Francisco Bay. Right? And what would

they do? Like, what how could you how could you poach oysters? It sounds really

weird. But, apparently, the oysters that were native to San Francisco Bay

Mhmm. Like, weren't super tasty. They were kinda small and, you know, puny

compared to, like, the ones that would be brought in from other areas.

So up towards Seattle or, like, even they'd even bring them in from the East

Coast once the, like, the railroads were in and stuff. Sure. So people

started taking these other oysters from out of the area and

then, like, farming them in San Francisco Bay. Okay. And at night,

these oyster pirates would sweep through and just steal the good oysters.

And then they'd sell them at the market the next day for a fraction of

the price of their value or whatever because we stole them. So Right.

That is fair. No investment there. But yeah. So because the the San Francisco Bay

is a public area Mhmm. It was just a lot less Sure. Nobody's

gonna shoot you for just Right. Going and finding oysters in the bay in the

middle of the night. And it was a lot of work for law enforcement to

go and try to, you know, keep an eye on these things. So they kinda

Mike. They're the speedboats. They didn't really yeah. They didn't you know, it sounded like

they didn't actually care that much because it was like a trade that

made the common people really happy because they kept affordable oysters.

Right. But, you know, I what I think but interesting about this is that that's

his first job. He's 15 years old. Yeah. You know, when I think about my

first job, you know, it was Mike a bus boy at a restaurant or

whatever and just, like, like, making sure that people had water and

stuff. Yeah. His first so when you say a life of adventure, his

first job is a pirate. Yeah. Like, he doesn't even he's not a pirate

apprentice. He's not Mike a pirate, like, not like an introductory pirate. He didn't go

to pirate school. He's just Mike, screw it. I'm gonna find some oysters, and I'm

gonna do that. And he was on this ship with these rough, rough men

that were, like, you know Right. They were just brutal.

And and he was exposed to lots and lots of, like,

drinking and, you know, the pirate's life, basically. And you

and speaking of drinking, and when you said that, you were working on his

autobiography, John Barleycorn, He mentions that the first time he actually

got drunk was when? Yeah. He was 5 years old. So this book is actually

and I'm just partway through it, but it's very interesting. It's a memoir

of all of his history with alcohol. Okay. So it starts, you know, and he

just tells all the experiences of his first experience. And he was bringing

a bucket of beer to his dad or something like that. And He just had

some? He he just well, you know, he as a 5 year old, he said,

well, this stuff must be really good because the adults love it so much, but

they won't let us have it. So it's really valuable. And

he just, you know, sat and drank. And he hated the taste of it.

But he said his little 5 year old mind was, like, well, the

good taste must come later because Oh. Grown ups love it so much.

Right. I know. It's super sad. And it gets worse from there. But

but it's interesting because he just That happened to me as a freshman in college.

I was, like, I was gonna make myself like beer. Yeah. And to

acquire a taste you really do have to. Through sucking it down,

like So he talks throughout the thing about how he really despised

alcohol and the taste of it. But what he loved was hanging out with these

characters that were sailors and pirates and hearing their stories of

adventure. So he found that hanging out in the tavern was,

like, the place to get all those great stories. Well, sure.

And so he would drink just because he wanted to, you know, feel

included. And Right. But he he just said how he hated it and he

preferred candy. So that's his peer that's his peer pressure or

whatever. Basically. Yeah. And beat that his new peers. Like, he's going down

it's Mike his pressure is to actually go down in social classes. That I

know. It's really sad. So John Boleycorn, the term comes

from a British folk song. John Barleycorn is a personification

of, barley and the alcohol beverages made from it,

beer, whiskey, things like that. And then he

suffers indignities, and and the whole point is John the song about John Barley

Barleycorn is that if it's a guy that's being put through the

process of being made into alcohol Mike the like

barley is. Right. Anyway, it's a funny song. Fermented. A lot of people

have done renditions of it. 1970 album by

Ben Traffic. That's Steve Wynwood. That was his band. Their album was

called, John Barleycorn Must Die.

Jethro Tull has done a version of it, Fairport Convention,

and a whole bunch of people. Yeah. And a whole oh, even Joe Walsh performed

a song live. And you know that, Joe

Walsh has probably been John Balichore on occasion, at least back in

the day before he went through his his 12 steps. But Yeah.

So, anyway, so Jacklyn has this adventurous life starting out. Yes. You know,

he's 15. He's an he's by the time he's 18, he goes to jail.

Yeah. Well and he started off Mike he was working in you know, he's a

paperboy or or a newsboy, I guess. And then he was in a cannery,

and he just hated the cannery so much. He was just Mike, I don't

care. I'm you know, he literally just saved enough to buy

a boat because the second he had enough, he went. And he said, I don't

care if I'm an, an oyster pirate if I get

caught and I go to jail. Well, hey, those prisoners don't

work as many hours as I do. They're not trapped in this, like, you know

Right. Well, they are, I guess, in a way. But they're not trapped and

treated like animals, you know, having to work and just do the assembly Mike stuff

that he was doing. So to him, it was Mike the cannery

job was Mike The ultimate worst thing in the world. Absolute worst thing. He would

rather be in prison than work in that area. Yeah. Or take a risk, you

know. And he just said, like, screw this. I'm out. Mike Alright. And he was

only, like, 14 or something when he did that. So Well, what I think is

interesting here is when you think about how he feels about the cannery

and then you think about the writings that he did, because in addition to his

fiction, he was also an activist for socialism. Mhmm. And so

not wanting to work is kind of the socialist thing to do.

And so, it's it's just an interesting thing that you see these early

experiences later shape his writings and his beliefs.

And he had some very, very 19th century beliefs that we'll talk about in a

little bit. But he's born in 18/76. He dies in

1916. And so in 40 years, he packs a lot

of living and a lot of writing. And that's why we're still reading him

today. Yeah. Going to see a movie with Harrison Ford coming out of the grave

or whatever. It's how old is Harrison Ford? I don't know. I

wanna say, like, 70? I think he's I think he's, like, 77.

Woah. What? No. Harrison Ford is 77. I

caught it. July 13, 1942. I thought the thing

is he's supposed to make another Indiana Jones movie out there. Gosh. They better get

on that. Yeah. They better get on it before he's in.

So yeah. So Harrison Ford cut like, kinda come yeah. He's 70 7. He was

30 when Star Wars came out. Star Wars now came out 40 43 years

ago, everybody. Yeah. Okay.

So, why did Jack London pack so much into

his life? And we could start out with his mother there,

Flora Wellman. Mhmm. Okay. Flora Wellman was described

as a exceptionally attractive child. Okay.

She's not so so Flora Wellman, she grew up in Ohio.

She's born, in the early part of 19th century.

And, you know, so she's an exceptionally attractive

child, but yet she has a strange fever when she's 5

years old. And the strange fever stunts her

growth. So she never even hits 5 feet tall,

which I mean, short women run-in my family. So it's not like, I think

women like, 5 feet tall, women, like, well, that's pretty tall for the women in

my Mike. Never hits 5 feet tall, and she goes

bald. So she has to wear a wig for most of her

life. Now she comes from a well-to-do family that has a

belief in spiritualism. Oh, okay. Now we're getting getting

warm. Right. So, I mean, Flora is interested in

all of the things when you think about a well-to-do woman

in the 19th century. She's interested in women's suffrage, women's rights,

abolition. And what comes with all these, what we think of

as being on whatever right side of history or whatever, is

also spiritualism. So that that kinda comes with the package.

The people that believe in all of those women's things that in

suffrage and women's rights were also spiritualists.

And Flora Wellman is, no

different. In fact, she's not just a spiritualist that goes to seances.

Flora holds seances. Wow. And she does this

when she gets out to San Francisco. She runs away from Ohio,

eventually, you know, makes it out to the West Coast.

And there, she meets William Cheney,

who just so happens to be, like, the

father of American astrology. Oh, man. It's a match made in

the heavens. Hey. Hey. So what's

interesting about this is that he also was somebody that served some time in

jail. William Cheney is an interesting character in his own right.

He learns astrology in New York City from this guy named Luke

Broughton. And Luke kinda built the

astrological community in the United States, and he built it in New York. But there's

even an anti astrology crusade in New York Woah. Where

people are probably like, this stuff is crazy. Yeah. It's devil work probably. Right? Devil

I mean, the same kind of thing. It's it's fortune telling. But also,

it's I mean, besides that, it might be they might think it's

satanic in nature. It's all it's also fooling people. It's also saying, Mike,

because we look at the, our horoscope and the horoscopes are written

so broadly Yeah. That you can read any day any horoscope.

Something good is gonna happen to you later today, Mike?

Yes. And even if something bad happens, I'll look back and be Mike, well, but

I did get that free burrito or something like that. You know, I did

stop by the restaurant and it was my name on the business card day or

whatever. And so I got a free lunch. So, like, even a bad

thing. Even when something happens, you can always find something

in your horoscope that you can relate to. And that's kinda how they're written. But

if you were going to see a personal astrologer as what these guys were

doing and they were using the stars to kind of answer your

questions, much like people go see a psychic Right. That's

a different A palm reader or, you know, any kind of So you go see

an astrologer and you say Mike, William Chaney. And you go say, like,

okay. What's you know, what kind of decision should I make?

Or they're like, oh, on this day, you will get a large fortune. What do

the stars say about this? Right. And then the stars tell you the wrong thing.

Then what happens is so then even the New York newspaper then decides to

have a crusade against astrology, and William Shady spent

6 months in jail. And after that, he gets out of town. So

after he gets released from jail, he moves to the West Coast, and

that's where, he meets Flora Wellman. But

the thing is is that he was already married in New

York. Yeah. So he he this by the time he meets Flora Wellman, he's on

his 4th wife. Woah, William. Right.

And the thing is is that he gets married to Flora Wellman, but

then he does get divorced from her and he gets

divorced from her and leaves her while she is pregnant with who

would become Jack London. Oh, Mike guy. Right. And the thing

is is that he leaves her, and she tries to kill

herself. Aw. And right. Not just tries to kill herself,

but, she first tries to, take

laudanum. She overdoses on laudanum, which is Mike a pain killer kind of

thing. And when that fails, she tries to shoot herself in the

head, but the gun malfunctions. Oh, man.

So immediately I mean, this is in the San Francisco Chronicle. Mhmm.

And it's in the June 4th 18 74 edition of the San through Chronicle. And

the headline is a discarded wife. Oh my

gosh. Right. That is so sad. And then so what

happens is because the thing is because William Cheney leaves her, and he goes, I've

never been able to get my other wives pregnant. So I

am I am not me. Yeah. So he's like he's like, I'm sterile. There's

no chance it can be my kid. That's rough. And then that's why she and

he leaves her. She tries to kill himself. And then, because this

is in the newspaper, everybody starts hating William Cheney

because, obviously, they think he's a bastard. He sounds like a jerk. Right. He totally

sounds like a jerk. And then he runs away and moves to

Chicago. And when people contact and ask him about it in the

future, he's like, I am not, I

am not Jack London's father. You know? He's like, she had other

lovers than I did. Even though I mean, I don't know. She's just this little

lady. This little if his little bald lady is getting around. I mean Well, we

don't we don't know. That's true. We're making judgments. But But he was married to

her. Absolutely. And, you know, he

writes a very well known text called Cheney's Primer of Astrology in

American Urania. And Urania refers to the

study of the stars. Urania was, like, the goddess of astronomy

in Greece. So, you know, it's, like, where it's, like, what's Urania?

It's got nothing to do with what it sounds like. It's like a it's not

Urania the urologist or anything like that. It's Urania has

to do with the study of astronomy. And then,

he gets married again to a woman named Daisy, and he begins a

magazine he calls the Daisy Jane Oh my gosh. After his

wife. She didn't have any kids, did she? I well, I you know what? I

really hope not. But, his he he's a

famous astrologer, and he also was a fairly

scandalous person because he left, Jack London's mother,

Flora Wellman. And so, you know, Flora

Wellman, then proceeds to,

like, give Jack to a foster mother for a while, a Virginia Prentiss

Mhmm. Who is a former slave. And she becomes Mike Jack's foster

mother while, like, Flora Wellman

is kinda going crazy. Some recovery. Yeah.

She goes a little crazy for a while. It's the quote is she lost

her mind. Oh, man. And and the thing

is, now Flora Wellman, she was not only conducting seances

and said that she could talk to the dead. She was also doing spirit possession.

So Jack London's mother believed that she was possessed

by the spirit of Blackhawk. I mean and Blackhawk is

a very famous Indian. I mean, a lot of people probably heard of

Blackhawk because they had the whole, like, Blackhawk wars. Right.

And, Abe Lincoln fought in the Blackhawk

war. And Blackhawk is he's not

necessarily an Indian chief because he never was, like, a proper, like, hereditary

chief. Oh, okay. But he just became a leader in

when the Indians were rebelling against all of the European

settlers coming into the Midwest Mhmm. Coming into Illinois and coming into

Wisconsin. And so he's fighting

in the, the early 1800 against

the American settlers. And the thing is is that just like

their sides of things today, where their sides of political

battles, there were people in the United States that thought what we were doing to

the Indians wasn't a great thing. Yeah. And there were people who thought it, you

know, manifest destiny. You know? Let's go all the way we push America all

the way to the sea. And in 18/33, Blackhawk tells

his life story, to, like, a government interpreter, and they put out

this autobiography, the autobiography of Mike

Taimi

That is the longest book title I've ever heard about. That's a very long title.

That is one book title there.

And, you know, it's funny. So they have this so this book comes out,

and this is what makes people fascinated with Blackhawk because he's

somebody who fought against, the

American settlers, and then people found a,

inspiration in that. Mhmm. So, you know, Blackhawk becomes this famous chief. They

named a ton of things after Blackhawk. The Chicago Blackhawks

Right. Obviously. There's a Blackhawk helicopter.

Right? They Mike the leap Blackhawk down. Four US Navy vessels

are named the USS Blackhawk. There's a college. There's a middle school.

Right. The Blackhawk stuff is everywhere. And Yeah. It's because people had

this great respect for this, Indian chief or this

Indian leader Mhmm. Not necessarily a like, we think of somebody as a traditional chief.

And I'm trying to get that stuff right there. But what's interesting is

Flora Wellman is not the only one who, like, channels the spirit

of Blackhawk. Uh-huh. And in fact,

our friend, Ursula Bilski from Chicago Hauntings, just

wrote a whole article about Blackhawk last year. And

so to link that. So what happened I'll let me quote her here. In New

Orleans, members of local black churches have for a century been calling in the spirit

of chief Blackhawk for aid, for advice, for money in troubled times. He has

become an essential patron saint of the Crescent City Desperate, with votive

candles, oils, and other sacramentals sold to help along the prayers of his

faithful. They will say things like the chant, Blackhawk is a watchman.

He will fight your battles. And so there even ends up

being another medium named Leafy Anderson

from Chicago. And Leafy Anderson is actually born in

Baraboo, Wisconsin Oh, wow. Which is maybe a half an

hour from where we are right now. So I feel the spirit of Leafy Anderson

in me. But, you know, she would tell people so she has a spiritualist

church, and she mainly has, like, black congregants.

But she starts getting white congregants too. But it's they're

saying that, Blackhawk will fight your battles. Blackhawk's a saint. She would

say, he will fight your battles. He's on the wall. And you're like,

okay. That's an that's an interesting thing. Like, why are we all of a sudden

praying to Blackhawk? But this becomes a

you know, she starts a spiritualist church that even gets led

on after her

death, the temple of the innocent blood. Woah. That's kind

of a Yeah. Strange name. Right. And

so, she's born in Wisconsin. She lives in Illinois for a while

and then moves the, to the the temple of the innocent blood

down to New Orleans in the 19 twenties. And they have spirit

guides in their worship services and everything that that conjure and get possessed by

the spirit of Blackhawk. So Flora Wellman's Flora Wellman's doing this 50 years

beforehand. Oh, man. So there is this tradition

of, being possessed by the spirit of

Blackhawk. And I think that's a that's a pretty that that's something I'd never heard

of before Mhmm. That, you know, that that was something.

And Jack London's mother did it. Now Jack London, in his writing and

talking to people, he's a very I mean, he's an atheist. He's a very famous

atheist, and he writes a lot about his philosophy. And he's

influenced by a lot of atheist writers.

And it's just interesting that he came from 2 people that are just about

as far from atheists as you can be. Yeah. Really. For sure.

So Interesting. I mean, what happens after she starts feeling

a little better, She marries John London,

who's a Civil War veteran. And, he's got

2 young daughters. He's a widower. And so he's a

widower. She's a spurned woman, a famously spurned

woman. Right. And, when Jack is a couple of years

old, she marries John London, where Jack took his

name. And so they struggle. They're poor.

Flora, who's you know, who had a well-to-do life back in Ohio,

she's gotta teach piano and bake bread in order to make

money. And, she does

her seances and stuff sometimes to also earn a

little extra. And it's funny because Jack is very embarrassed by her

seances. So So you can see when you talk about rebellion, that's the first thing

you rebel against, your parents' crazy jobs. Uh-huh.

Especially your dad that hates you and never, even acknowledges that

you're his son. Yeah. So, I

mean, starting off, Jack London has a, you know, a very

interesting, he's raised by a couple of very

interesting people. And And didn't he, like, try to reach out

to his his birth father? Yes. He tries to get he he tries to reach

out to William Chaney. Yeah. And William Chaney even still disowns

him at that point. And just breaks his heart. Mhmm. It says, like

right. It says, like, he never really recovered from the fact that his father because

Jack London I mean, he's a sensitive guy, but he's almost

even though he's not the picture of macho that we think of, like, Ernest Hemingway,

you know, somebody in that same kind of thing, writing adventure stories, going and living

the adventure yourself. Mhmm. I mean, that's Jack London. He went to he not just

write about the Yukon. Right. You know, he went to the Yukon. He did it.

Obsessed with the adventure, and he's also, you know, in that John Barley corn

book. Like, as a child, he's very

fascinated by the rights of passage, like, oh, men hang out

together in a bar and drink together. And that that's a man thing to do.

And so I'm gonna go and do that, and I'm gonna show them that I

am a man. You know, like, he's very, obsessed with that those

rituals and things like that. And you can kinda see why. And I know we're

psychoanalyzing someone a 100 years after they're dead. It's true. I mean, but

that's what a podcast is for, right, about talking about these things. But when

you think about so Jack London, his real father

abandons him. His stepfather is

lame from the war and can't work. And

so he's looking for examples of masculinity, and

he finds it in these rites of passage. Well, where do the men hang out?

The men hang out at the bar after they're done getting off the ship kind

of thing. Right. And so that's what he seeks for himself. And,

I mean, that's what he does. I mean, he isn't just an author

of fiction. He also is a reporter. He goes to

he goes to Japan. You know, he goes to Japan to report on the the

Russo Japanese war. That's wild. And then so he's in Japan for a while and

he reports on the Japanese side. And then he wants to go and then he

goes to Russia and reports on the Russian side. And so

he goes off into war zones. He goes off into the Yukon. And

then, Mike, in his personal life, you know, he never

up until a certain point, he doesn't find a soul Mike

kind of thing. And even says, like, he, you know, doesn't believe in romance or

whatever. And he decides to get married to his friend

not because he It's a practical Not because he loves her because but he thought

they could make robust children. I believe We can make us some

strong kids. We can make us some strong children. And so,

he does that, and they get married for a little while. But

then He meets a woman who is as

adventurous as he is. Jackie falls in love. Yes.

Charmian Levin is, that's who it is. And

she joins Jack on his adventures. And it starts in 1905 is when

they meet. And he And so he drops the wife of convenience. Right.

Right? Right. But the thing is, by this point, he's already fairly wealthy. Yeah. So

when you talk about Jack London as a rock star Yeah. Yeah. He's and he

wasn't penniless like Edgar Allan Poe, Mike, dying in a

gutter. He wasn't, like, living off inheritances, things like that, like h p

Lovecraft. Or when we think of more modern writers, you think of

guys, like, who's the writer that did Blade Runner?

And has so many so many of his books have been

adapted after his death. Oh, we had a whole episode about him. Oh, yeah.

Philip k Dick. Thank you. Yes. So Philip k Dick, like,

now he'd be a millionaire. You know? It's it's kinda like how George

r Martin. So until George r like, George r Martin's, like,

70 now. Right? Yeah. But he lived a long life just making a kinda regular

living. Yeah. Just being a writer. Not through you know, cranking

out books. And then all of a sudden in his sixties, he becomes world I

mean, he already was famous and stuff. And he already had worked in Hollywood as

a script editor and things. But it took until he wasn't a

superstar writer until Game of Thrones happened. And then all of a sudden in his

sixties, he has all the money he wants. Right. And so you think about that.

I mean, Jack London was not that old when he started making a good

deal of money. Right. And isn't it something Mike he was at the right place

at the right time? Because that's when they finally were able to, like, mass print

books. Right. The journals, Mike, the monthly or whatever periodical

type journals where they would hire writers to do, you know, either continuing

series or short stories or that kind of thing. And he was just

determined to make money off of writing. Sure. Because he didn't wanna work in a

cannery, you know. Right. And so the the I'm sure

his hard work and dedication toward that, but timed with that aspect of the

publishing world of that becoming a popular thing, Mike, the regular journals with

that original writing in it. Like, he was just in the perfect

place to succeed. And then it happens. And then, like so he makes the

equivalent. Like, I mean, in his twenties or something, he

makes the equivalent of writing, like, $70,000 $77,000

for a story or something like that. So it's something silly. Like, he sells a

story, and it's a whole year worth of his life paid for. Right.

And this then becomes his life. And so he gets actually rich while

he's alive off of Mike young. Right. And so you can

see getting rich while young. I mean, even Justin Bieber was just

talking about how he had to deal with his demons. But,

unfortunately, we still have Justin Bieber, and we don't have Jack Wolf. No. So

the thing is he had built this ranch called,

like, the wolf house. And so, he did have a

thing for wolves, didn't he? He damn, man. He loved wolves. And so he's building

this, like, this mansion he's gonna call the wolf

house. And he's it's in 1913, and him and Charmian were

gonna move into it. And, like, right before they're

about to move into it, it burns to the ground. Oh,

tragedy. Right. And so he's got, like, a little house on the

ranch, but it's not, like, the the mansion that he dream house. It

wasn't the wolf house that he was going to build. And,

so what happens is by 1916, Jack

London, his health is kinda failing. And then,

he's just he's hanging out on his own, you know, on his

own little house in the ranch and then passes away as he's 40 years

old. Aw. And so Jack dies. And it's

not super clear what he died on because Yeah. You can say that he

drank himself to death because he he, obviously, he has struggles with alcohol in his

life. But so it could have been some kind of liver failure. But also, didn't

he have a bunch of crazy diseases when he was younger? Yeah. Well, when he

went up to the Yukon in the in the gold hunt,

he, well, for one thing, he got scurvy. Alright. So It's hard

to come back from scurvy. Yeah. Well, it it affects you because you you get,

like, your gums recede and then that opens you up to all kinds of

infection and And if you guys wanna see what scurvy looks like, a

really good demonstration of what scurvy looks like, watch The Terror. Oh,

gosh. That was from Dan Simmons' book about

the, Franklin, the doomed Franklin expedition of

1842. And it's a very good and

horrifying visual. So you in a week just

heard, oh, he gets the scurvy. And you think they're just bowlegged or whatever. Turn

him yellow or whatever. Right? Mike. No. You're I mean, it's it's horrific. Oh,

my gosh. Well, it's in in addition to that, it said that he, picked

up unspecified tropical infections and diseases including yaws.

And Oh, man. Yaws is the worst. Yeah. I don't Yaws. I think I think

I saw that band. That sounds nasty. A

tropical infection of the skin, bones, and joints caused by a bacteria.

Anyway, gross. Like, skin wounds and all that kind of

stuff. The world is terrifying. It is. But then he it just said when he

was at the time of his death, he was suffering from all kinds of things,

Mike, including various symptoms from diseases he had and said he

was on morphine. So, I mean, it could have been, like, a self induced just

from too much Right. The thing is he's probably drinking. Relief. And, you

know, if he's drinking if he's taking morphine, if he's all these

kind of things, then maybe his body just shuts down. Or, like, when you're on

morphine, like, sometimes your body forgets to keep

working. Yeah. I mean That's the whole opiate problem.

It's said that he, he suffered from dysentery, late stage

alcoholism, and uremia. Oh, god. So I mean

Dysentery. So he's crapping his pants. His liver hurts. Poor

guy. Whatever uremia is, if it's anything like uranium, it's

either in the stars. If it's anything like urologist, it's into Johnson.

So forget. I'm sorry. Sorry about that, Jacqueline. It sounds like Mike had a bad

end. But yeah. And he they buried his ashes right there on-site by

the wolf pack I mean, the wolf house. By the wolf house.

And interestingly enough, his widow, Charmian, she

sees his ghost just a few months after,

Oh, in the house? Yeah. In the cabin or whatever? So she

writes in her memoirs, as clearly as I had ever looked upon the man, I

saw Jack stepping blithely in the green domain that they call that

the field in front of the ranch house was a green domain, whistling

comradely to the unmistakable friend shadowing his heel, Peggy the

beloved, our small canine Irish saint. So

she had visions of Jack and his dog after he had

passed away. And you can all go see it at the Jack

London State Historic Park. And you can see the ruins of Wolf House. Cool.

Cool. I'm definitely gonna visit that. Oh, yeah. I totally wanna see

it. And people have seen, Jack's

spirit. They've I mean, they've seen a ghost there that they think is Jack

London, and in the ruins of the wolf house.

It says on this, in the that Jeff Dwyer's ghost

hunter's guide to California's Mike country, which sounds pleasant. Last time I

went to California's Wine Country, I just drank a ton of wine. I

didn't, just went up the highway and just,

and and went from winery to winery. Did you do the wine train? I didn't

think about I wanted to do the wine train. Actually, funny enough,

last time I was in wine country, we stayed in, the Jack

London Suite at the hotel we were in. Nice. Yeah. You

didn't see him, though? I did not see him. But I I did there there

was a spirit there. There was a bottle of wine that was in the fridge.

There was Right. Someone had left. So The the spirit of Jack London was there

because you got uremia. Oh. But

people have heard voices calling out, the sound of metal hammer striking

rock, footsteps, and even apparitions in the foyer in the great hall of

the ruins. Cool. What I think is super interesting about the wolf house,

though, is it's a it's a place he never lived. So in real life

So So if you think it's some kind of Yeah. If you if you think

it's a recording, if you would say it's a residual

haunting, Jack London never lived there. Although it was something that he

was working hard on. Right? You know, it's kinda like his dream house. Mhmm. So

people pour a lot of energy and passion into that. And who knows? He maybe

while they were building it, he would Walk through shit. You're right. I mean, if

you hear the sound of metal hammer striking rock, that sounds like

Klondike. I mean oh, I didn't even think of it. I thought it was people

working on the house. Oh. But if people people hear the sound of the

Klondike, oh, that's great. People hear the gold rush. Yeah. It's like

all of his little various chapters of his life kinda happening

as apparitions. And that would be an interesting thing because he was

very, atheistic even though he wrote

some of his, stories. If you go to,

Mike, some of the philosophy and the things that he believes in now

the people that Jack London are inspired by,

some of them are problematic today. Yeah. You could say Herbert Spencer.

He's the guy that, gave us the phrase survival of the fit.

Ah, okay. You know, Herbert Spencer

is very influenced by Charles

Darwin and evolution. And so when you think of this idea as

evolution, I mean, Charles Darwin is studying

how, animals adapt to the environment, and then

the adaptation happens in their children and things like that. But

Herbert Spencer goes on. And they do more things

like social evolution, you know, natural selection

of not just, humans in general.

Properties. Right. But natural selection of, like, races. Right. So

Herbert Spencer is kind of like a eugenics guy Really? Where, you know,

eugenics is that idea that there is a quote unquote

science of, you try to weed

out the weak or you Wendy out, you know, you weed out Intentionally. The

weaker races Yeah. Or you weed out people with, any

kind of, you know, mental disease or

disabled people. And, you know, you think that eugenics is a thing of the

past. Right? And then you see that Iceland

has eliminated Down syndrome. Wow. And you're Mike, well, that

did they find a cure? No. No. So it's little

thing these, Mike, so eugenics is still with us today in certain

kind of things, but nobody would talk about it like that. But Jack London is

a eugenicist. He's like, yes. They're gonna be all manly manly.

He's like, we gotta weed out the weaker people and things like that because they

gotta be strong. Even though I mean, would he consider himself strong because

he was prone to diseases and all that kind of stuff? Yeah. But, I mean,

this is all when we think about the world of the Victorian

age, he's also influenced by, Friedrich Nietzsche.

In fact, he says that, Nietzsche I've been more

stimulated by Nietzsche than by any other writer in the world. He

considered himself an admirer, but also, I quote, intellectual

enemy, unquote. Because,

Nietzsche is this idea of the Ubermensch Oh, yeah. The

Superman who is and, you know, all of this is eventually

taken by the Nazis and used as propaganda, whether it's eugenics

and, you know, how the Nazis killed other races

in addition to killing people who had disabilities and all that kind of

thing. And also this idea of they're trying to create the Ubermensch,

the Superman that is intellectually strong and physically

strong. Right. So this this in the past would be

considered a Greek ideal of the man who was

brilliant as well as powerful. Mhmm. I mean, Nietzsche

writes that, about one of his books. And it's

it's funny that, you know, Jack London considers that because all

this kind of matches together, things that he's interested in. He's interested in evolution.

He's interested in, you know, becoming super intelligent, super

strong, all these kind of things. Like, Jack London wants to be an

Ubermensch. But instead of being Mike the the Ubermensch that's

cruel towards other people, he believes that he can be the socialist

Superman is something that he talks about. In that, you can

achieve these kind of things and you can be a

superior intellect and a superior physicality while also,

not having to go to work. Yeah. So, I mean, he's very

influenced. I mean, this is also something that's popular, though, if you take, like,

HG Wells is the same kind of thing.

And, it's it's this idea that I

mean, they've witnessed people be taken advantage of by

corporations. They've witnessed people be worked to the bone. I mean, Jack London worked in

the cannery and he's like, I'd rather go to jail than do that again. Mhmm.

And you have these horrific kind of

work environments that are happening at the turn of Wendy century. I mean, think about

the people working the mines. Think about when they you know, when they started working

on unions and they would go on strike, there would be strike breakers coming up.

And it wouldn't just be, like, push through this break the crap out of them.

Like, people would die in, when it was battles. In

labor battles. And so he's seen this stuff kinda happen,

and it's influencing his ideas. And so,

he's a a socialist, Nietzschian,

kinda racist even though he doesn't Mike, h b Lovecraft has

always taken the task for saying horrible things. Right. Jack London does

talk about the difference between races, Mike, in one of

his, one of his stories, the eyes of Asia.

He's Mike, nor white, nor Asiatic, nor European,

blended misfits of outcrossed bloods. It would be awful. We

couldn't forgive ourselves. He's talking about people mixing racist there.

Fancy it. The Anglo Saxons staring at me from Almond. The Japanese

staring at you from Anglo Saxon eyes. Inscrutable, foreign,

utterly, abysmally alien.

Yeah. So, I mean, little things like that.

They don't tell you about that in junior high. But, I mean, these are, obviously,

these are some indefensible things. But at the same time, you have I mean,

you are a victim of your time Yeah. And you're going along with the beliefs.

Well, another thing related to that that's kinda interesting is that his

mom, when he was a little kid, like, warned him

that people with dark eyes Mhmm. You had to

comply with their wishes or they would kill you. So anytime

he'd run into somebody Italian or, you know, the dark haired, dark eyed people, he

would, and when he was a little kid, one of them handed him a glass

of wine and he didn't wanna drink it. But he was so so afraid

of dying. He's he he was Mike, if I don't drink it, that guy's gonna

kill me. Oh, man. So that was part of That's my thing. Yeah. It was

Mike like, she ingrained that into him to the point where he was just

terrified of certain ethnicities of people. And so right. And

that's inflicted on him Right. To where, of course, he's gonna see that not only

do you have the social Darwinism of the time, but you also have, his

mother who's who's putting that on him. So that's interesting. And, you

know, that even gets into as he when he thinks about

these different themes as he's going into his science fiction work. So, I mean,

we don't read any science fiction work in school, but it sounds like we should.

But That surprised me hearing about that. He's got stories like the rejuvenation of

major Rathbone, where it's a youth serum Mike somebody

smarter, planchette. Ouija board story.

A Ouija board sends ominous messages that come to fruition.

Cool. The man with the gash, a dream

band that haunts a Yukon Mike and cheat and materializes to murder

him. There's stories about social he's got several stories

about socialist revolution. The Iron Heel, a dystopian novel predicting the

rise of fascism and the obstacles to an easy socialist revolution.

The Scarlet Plague, a worldwide pandemic is experienced in the San

Francisco Bay Area, otherwise known as the coronavirus. Dun

dun dun. When the world was young, a young man is haunted

by a Teutonic barbarian atavism that struggles to dominate

his personality. Now he goes back to this idea

of atavism more than once. And so what I think is

interesting here is that so what is atavism?

That's this idea of you can have traits from your ancestry

that emerge in yourself. Oh, okay. So atavism is like genetic

memory. Oh, yeah. He's in Call of the Wild. That's a very

strong theme. Right. With with the dogs, you know, of course. Yeah.

But And the thing is, you know, Call of the Wild, particularly because we think

of dogs as maybe not having a genetic memory, but they have something we

don't, instinct. Right. Exactly. And we've always

recognized instinct because a cat does not need to be

taught. I don't know why you just put a box of sand in your

house. Know how to go there. The hat will drop a deuce in it. Like,

why does the cat know how to do why does the cat know how to

go to the bathroom in the sand? Yeah. That's weird. You the only, like, the

how to here's how you house train your cat. You really just show them. You

put them in the litter box. And you might have to do that a couple

of times when they're kittens, but within a week, it's done. Wow. That's amazing. And

you're Mike Only kids were that easy. Oh Mike god.

Right. But just this idea that, you

know, animals have this instinct. Birds make a nest. Nobody ever shows a bird how

to make a nest. That's amazing. Or or bees

making a beehive. Right. There's all these things that animals do that they

require absolutely no, training for. Whereas

humans, we require training for everything. And I mean, which is why

we have culture. And it's interesting that we didn't think that other animals

actually had any kind of learned culture. They only had instinct. They only had

atavism and genetic memory until there were

these monkeys on these in this Japanese island.

And, the monkeys

like, somebody showed 1 monkey

how to, like, rub his sweet potato in the salt

water. Okay. Right? So the monkey would take it so the monkey would take the

sweet potato to the beach. He would put the sweet potato in salt water, and

then it would taste better. Yeah. Yeah. A little sweet and savory. And so the

monkey took that back to, like, the monkey community. Uh-huh. And then they all

Taught them. Started going to the water and,

Mike, salting their potatoes. Yeah. And so that was Mike I

remember, this is just something in the late 20th century where they were

teaching us a psychology class that, well, we now have seen that not only

humans have culture, but an animal can have learned culture too. And

so what's the reverse? I mean, he's got this in his story before

Adam where this guy starts having memories of, like, the

Neanderthal times. His character is like, I shall never forget the

first time I saw blueberries served on the table. I had never seen

blueberries before, and yet at the sight of them, there leapt

up in my mind memories of dreams wherein I'd wandered through swampy

land eating my fill.

But it's, you know, it's not just that. It's in John

Barleycorn. He says it too. He goes, all my austere nights

of midnight oil, all the book I had read, all the wisdom I had gathered

Wendy glimmering before the ape and tiger in me. They crawled up from the

abysm of my heredity, atavistic, competitive, and brutal,

lustful with strength and desire to out swine the

swine. Man. So he feels that

his desire to drink even comes from some kind of genetic

memory. And, you know, this idea of genetic memory, they have it in

games all the time. They have it in movies all the Mike, in science fiction.

And is there any kind of scientific evidence for genetic

memory where something could happen to you and

then your children or children's children will then

remember it? And the answer is yes.

Yeah. There is evidence that something can happen to you,

and it will create some kind of genetic memory in your children.

And this they haven't done this in humans yet. But, back

in 2013, you get a couple of researchers

at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, and they start

becoming interested in, epigenetic inheritance

is what they call it. We call it genetic memory. Back in Jack London's day,

they called atavism. And, today, you would

call it epigenetic inheritance. So can any of these things

can mental illness be passed down through genes? Can you know?

Because they were seeing cycles of drug addiction and psychiatric illness that if

they occurred in the parent, they might have often occurred in the children. And there

was only anecdotal evidence. So how do you the first person, of course

or the first group, obviously, you go to

study when it comes to needing to study humans is mice. Oh, yeah.

So what do they do? They start, training mice

to fear the smell of acetophenan.

And that's a chemical which has the scent of cherries or

almonds. Mhmm. So what they were doing to male mice

is they were putting the scent in a small chamber. So they kind of release

the scent in the chamber. There's a mouse in the chamber, and then they're giving

the mouse shocks, electric shocks.

So eventually, the mice start associating the scent

with pain. They start shuddering

even when there is no electrical shock. Oh, wow. So it's kinda

like Pavlov's dog Sure. Where he hears the bell, he starts

salivating even when he doesn't smell the food. Before they ever had the

food, though. In this case, it would be Mike they had never experienced that.

Right. So all of a sudden, this smell starts they

they start associating with pain. And so

they go to the next generation of these mice because mice reproduce

quickly. Right. Obviously, you don't have to wait till, like, the kids are 6 or

something like that. They can, you know, Mike have kids real quick and they can

check them. And interestingly enough, in the journal they report,

Nature Neuroscience is a journal. And despite never having

encountered, Cetaphenon in their lives, the offspring exhibit

increased sensitivity when introduced to its smell, shuddering more markedly in its

presence, compared with the descendants of mice who had been conditioned

to be startled by a different smell or gone through no such conditioning.

A third generation of mice, the grandkids, also inherited this reaction

as did mice conceive through in vitro fertilization with sperm from the males who were

sensitized. Similar experiments show that the response can also be transmitted

down from the mother. But what's interesting here is that they're even

Mike test tube babying mice, and those mice are still having

that fear associated with the smell. So

this fear, ends up

going through their genes. And they haven't figured out the, you know, the

entire kind of thing yet as to why.

And, obviously, some people are like, how does this happen? That's

all crazy talk. But, they're doing further research on it

to see how certain things can pass from the parent to the child that you

would think Mike so, I mean, if I really hate broccoli, and let's say I

eat some broccoli and somebody kicks my butt. What is broccoli was that?

What are you doing eating some broccoli? I'll be here. I'm gonna kill you. And

so it happens to get my butt kicked. And all of a sudden, every time

I see broccoli or smell broccoli, I start being afraid. I'd hate for

my grandchildren to them. Yeah. Right? Never want broccoli. What's also

interesting though is now so this isn't past. Like, we think of

genetic stuff as my kids will get it no matter what. But let's say you

have a child and then 10 years later, you get your butt kicked while you're

eating broccoli. The next child will have that fear and not your orig no.

What? So it's stuff being added to your genes. That's messed up.

Right. So, what a lot of people

considered silly after the 20th century into the mid 20th

century, nobody believes in atavism anymore. And that's just something it's kinda

like after World War 2, nobody's, like, eugenics.

Nobody, like, high fives. Great idea. It becomes a horrific thing. In fact, even,

Star Trek has this whole thing about the Eugenics Wars, and that's

where Khan comes from. In Wrath of Khan in the late nineties, we had the

Eugenics Wars with the Ubermensch, the, Kahn and his buddies

fighting fighting the rest of humanity. And so,

atavism, it becomes like this idea of, well, this is just a, you

know, a 19th century idea. But, we find

out that there may be something to genetic memory. And that's an interesting

thing that Jack London often featured in his work, books like John Bonicorn

and Before Adam. Yeah. And, it was just interesting to learn so many

things, about an author that,

I only thought of as a kind of adventure guy. Yeah. And a fiction

writer, you know. And you never thought of him as such as rich interesting person.

Well, actually, to tell you the truth, if I'm like, okay, he's an adventure guy

that drank himself to death, and he only could write Mike you didn't

think him as Mike a deep thinker. Right. But yeah. And now you see

So much depth. That even if you don't agree with a lot of the things

he thought, which is He was definitely thinking. He was definitely thinking.

And I I think we'd all be hard pressed to find somebody

from the late 19th century where we'd be like, you know what, that

guy? Yeah. He's he's right on. Well, especially at at such a young age

too. Right. You know? Oh, yeah. Most people do their their more

serious works Mike in the seems like in the later years, you know? Sure.

Well, in in the interesting thing though is I did read about musicians, Wendy, so

I think we might be screwed Oh, no. That musicians have all of their hits

whenever before the 35 or they write all their best work before the 35.

Sometimes. Every time. But they also it was with authors and

musicians and even Bill Gates. Wow. They were saying, like, he

kind of achieved as far as his, to Microsoft,

his contribution, stuff like that. It was all done before 35. It's Mike to

march to the grave. Yeah. All downhill from here is all I'm saying. But he

I don't care. I'm still having a good time just like Jack London.

And some of his best quotes, and this goes into the song

for this week, is he writes it's known as

London's credo. And he says these words to his friends,

2 months before his death. I would rather be ashes than

dust. I would rather than my spark should burn out in a brilliant

blaze than it should be stifled by dry rot. I would rather be a superb

meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a

sleepy and permanent planet. The proper function of man is to

live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong

them. I shall use my time. And that's the idea behind

this week's song, I'd Rather Be Ashes Than Dust.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. You can find us

online at othersidepodcast.com. Until next

Mike. See you on the other side. You

know who I'd like to talk about Jake London with, Wendy? Who? Our Patreons.

Oh, yeah. Actually, I was thinking, you know, he's got a a list of titles

that would be perfect for a paranormal book club of some sort. And, you know,

and they're all free too because everything is, because everything is old. You

know, everything Yeah. He's been dead since 1916, so everything

he's written is in the public domain. Project Gutenberg. Right. Jump to project

Gutenberg, and then you can look at all of Jack London's stories. But we'd love

to talk to you Mike. Yeah. If you're interested in any of the topics we

talked about today Mhmm. We're gonna go over them with our Patreons, and we're gonna

do our February hangout in just a couple weeks. Yes.

So for you Patreons, please look out on the Patreon website or the app,

and we'll let you know when that's gonna happen. And we have a shout out

to our newest Patreon member. Oh, how could I be remixed?

Gosh. Bart. Bart. That's right. Bart

is our newest Patreon member. And, Bart, your support, we appreciate it. Thank you

so much. Percent. I don't know how many shows that we've seen Bart where we

know he's given at least, like, an hour and a half to 2 hours to

get there. And he rocks out. Right. And Bart's ready to party. He's ready

to rock. And, one of his kids is a

sweet bass player. Yes. And Lisa loves to rock too, and

it's just an awesome family. And Bart, thank you very much for joining our Patreon

community. Thanks, Bart. We super appreciate it. Yeah. And I'm excited for everybody

to get to know Bart. That's right. So we'll see you on the Hangout there.

And, speaking of Patreons, we can't forget doctor

Ned. Ned. Doctor Ned's at the level of Patreon sponsorship where he

gets a shout out in every single episode. To doctor Ned, new Patreon

Bart, and all of our Patreons, thank you very much. Anybody else out

there interested in joining this awesome community of brilliant people,

then you should check out otherside podcast.com/ donate, and we

would love to get to know you. Please join us.

Yes. And even if something bad happens, I'll look back and be like, well, but

I did get that free burrito.