Today we're talking about what the fourth trimester looks like and how our expectations of motherhood are sometimes different than reality. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's harder. But we're not given a manual to life and we're not given a manual to motherhood.

Our guest today is Erin Schlozman, who is a Licensed Professional Counselor based in Kansas City mom of two and the wife behind the fourth-trimester wellness, Erin runs a private practice that focuses on perinatal mental health, the transition to motherhood, and supporting new moms as they navigate their career goals.

Our conversation is so good and so relatable. We talk all about the transition to motherhood and how this doesn't end just in the postpartum season. Even if you're beyond this fourth trimester, parenting and motherhood is always full of transitions and we are always working through some postpartum or motherhood expectations that come and each new season.

How do we navigate it? How do we stand up for ourselves when we maybe aren't confident in our way of parenting, but we need support communicating that to others? What are some of the ways that we move through anxiety, depression, and struggles? How do we support those in our circle, even if we're not navigating these things? And how do we show up for ourselves as well? So from her own experience, as well as her licensed professional work, I am so excited for you to listen to this conversation with Erin.

What you'll hear in this episode:

[0:30] Episode Introduction

[2:35] Guest Introduction 

[5:15] What is the first step for mothers who do not know what to do?

[7:30] How do you know you're talking to the right people for support?

[9:20] What can people do to help someone who needs support? 

[11:35] Dads can also go through tough times as well

[13:10] Good one-liners for people who want to help someone who is struggling 

[16:05] Breakdown of postpartum

[17:30] Recommended habits to put into your routine 

[21:25] What are some ways you can find yourself again?

[24:35] How the different seasons will have different answers for your needs at that time

[26:35] What are the resources that you recommend people use?

[30:30] How do you stay strong in your choices instead of falling to others' opinions 

[36:10] What are the right ways to find the right people for you?

[39:05] What are the ways to help someone out when it's something factual and not opinionated?

[40:25] What should you do to just reset?

[42:30] What is one way you can connect with your partner while having a baby?

[43:55] Is there the best system to communicate with your partner effectively?

[45:35] How to connect with Erin

CONNECT WITH ERIN

Follow Erin on IG: @4th.trimester.wellness

Check out her website for more information on her services

https://erinlevincounseling.com/

CONNECT WITH KELSEY

Follow Kelsey: @thisiskelseysmith

Follow Momma Has Goals: @mommahasgoals

Download the app for Apple or Android

Learn more at https://thisiskelseysmith.com/

Join our text list. Text "Goals" to (707) 347-0319

Erin Schlozman 0:00

I'm so glad that that is what worked for you and your baby. My baby and I are

Kelsey Smith 0:07

the best. Let's reimagine mom life together. Mama has goals is your hub for relatable support and helpful resources that helped you fuel yourself alongside motherhood, your identity is bigger than mom. And whatever your goals are, together, we're making them a reality. You move on into something with an expectation or you thought you were going to show up to a conversation or a life journey in one way, and it actually goes really different. I feel like this happens in motherhood a lot. There's always that one thing that you're like, hey, what's the one thing you said you would never do as a mom and then you end up doing? If you can relate, please send me a message and let me know what it is for you. I love knowing. But today we're talking about really what that fourth trimester looks like and how expectation from motherhood is sometimes different than reality. Sometimes it's better and sometimes it's harder. But we're not giving a manual to life and we're not giving a manual to motherhood and that's where mama has goals came from. But our guest today Aaron Levin Schwartzman, who is a ma LPC Licensed Professional Counselor based in Kansas City mom of two and the wife behind the fourth trimester wellness, Aaron runs a private practice that focuses on perinatal mental health and the transition to motherhood and supporting new moms as they navigate their career goals. Erin is excited to launch her new podcast coming soon. I love my baby and, and is currently writing her first book, this conversation with Erin was so good and so relatable. We talk all about the transition to motherhood and how this doesn't end just in the postpartum season. So definitely guilt. So give it a listen, even if you're beyond this fourth trimester season, because it's always transitioning. And we are always working through some of the postpartum and motherhood expectations that come and each of those seasons, what's been normalized by society? How do we navigate it? How do we stand up for ourselves when we maybe are confident in our way of parenting, but we need support communicating that to others? What are some of the ways that we move through anxiety and depression and struggles? How do we support those in our circle, even if we're not navigating these things? And how do we show up for ourselves as well. So from her own experience, as well as for licensed professional work, I am so excited for you to listen to this conversation with Aaron. It was so good. Aaron, I'm so excited to have you here today. I know you focus on fourth trimester wellness, and really supporting women in that. And I'd love to just jump in and hear how did you get started and share a little bit about your postpartum experiences?

Erin Schlozman 2:44

Sure, what Thank you for having me. So I'm a licensed therapist, while I was pregnant with my first baby, I was working in a hospital doing pending work over the hospital. But that was my first exposure to working with women who were pregnant, new moms. And then when I had my son, I was looking for additional support for myself. And I was a therapist in the community working with psychiatrists and didn't know where to start. And I was like, if I don't know where to start, and this is my professional community, then I can't even imagine how a mom who doesn't have any connection with a therapeutic community can get connected. And that was really the first piece of wanting to be see that community be part of that community. So I went and I was still working as a licensed therapist. But at that point, I went and got additional training and Perinatal mental health and really narrowed down the focus of my own practice to working with new parents. So at the beginning, it was very highly focused on perinatal mental health and now over the years, it's just transitioned into working with working with new parents as you don't need to be in a mental health crisis to need support and you don't need to be suffering from panic attacks to need support. That transition into motherhood is a big transition. And Access to care is important to me. So like with Instagram, being ensuring that I'm providing resources for people who may not be able to access resources in a different way is sort of at the heart of what my goal is.

Kelsey Smith 4:42

Yeah, and that your Instagram is amazing as so many resources and so we'll just you know, start there for anyone listening. You can pop over or send a friend fourth dot trimester dot wellness is Aaron's Instagram, and that is, you know, we're going to talk about how to support people but I love that you have it First thing on there, that's such an easy way to say, Hey, I saw this account, you might find it supportive or helpful and being able to just send because the hard part is even when we put free resources out there, people have to find them, and people have to know about them. So definitely sharing that. So let's say a mom, you know, maybe hasn't found your page. And let's say that they're really, in the places where they're feeling challenged into motherhood, they're, they're struggling, but they're not really sure how much and they don't really know what to do. What is like the first step that you recommend to the mom in that situation?

Erin Schlozman 5:34

Yeah, so I think loneliness or feeling alone can be a very triggering experience. Maybe a strong word, but it'd be a really provocative experience for a lot of new moms in terms of, I have perfectionist tendencies, or like, I don't know what I'm doing, or I've never done this before. And now I'm alone with a small person who can't communicate with me. So I always say, like, make to the clients that I see at least, like make a phone plan, just once a day, make sure you're talking to another adult, or texting with another adult or connecting with another adult. And that can usually, at least from what I've seen, that usually can help calm that like the very high intensity of feeling challenged. So like, Okay, I do have connections with relationships, we hurt in relationships, we deal in relationships. So making sure to maintain some relationships during that postpartum period, I think is really important. And then in terms of more serious mental health concerns. Well, we can talk we can get into that, but just just making sure you're staying connected in those really early days.

Kelsey Smith 6:52

Yeah. And you know, and I think that this really applies for anyone that's listening. It's like, oh, I'm past the postpartum phase. Like, I believe that this really continues all throughout motherhood, but you're just like just getting started at the beginning. But even if your kids are, you know, 12, a woman in our community just went through a really challenging time with her 17 year old daughter, like, you still need to have a phone plan, you still need to reach out to other adults to be able to have conversations because you're not having the same conversation with your 17 Year 12 year old, your four year old or your brand new baby. So even if you're having sentences, they're different types of sentences, and you need to have the right people to support you. But there's also the people that can be like, not helpful, right? So if you're reaching out to the wrong people, I'd love for you to talk about that. How do you how do you know you're calling the right people?

Erin Schlozman 7:36

Sure. So for me, the right people were friends who were having babies who had babies, like a little bit older than mine. So like one of my best friends had had a baby, kind of like eight months before I did. And using that sounding board is like, oh, okay, so because a lot of it is like, and I've recognized this before, with the Instagram page as well, a lot of it is like, am I the only one I thought I was the only one feeling this way. I thought I was convinced I was the only one feeling this way like to hear this repeated back to me has been really meaningful. So I think being able to connect with someone who was close to that experience of early motherhood, as well can be very normalizing of the experience of early postpartum. And it's easy to have any baby and not leave your house and not talk to anyone and not shower and not make plans. And I'm not saying like go on marathon, just even if it's your own mom or a work colleague, or just someone that you know, can relate to the experience, again, will really change what that experience.

Kelsey Smith 8:44

Yeah, I know. For me, one of the things that I would notice when I was in a season and still to this day, if I'm in a season where I'm feeling overwhelmed, the first thing I do is take a shower, and I'm like, Okay, I like when was the last time I wash my hair, like not just showered, but like got my whole hair wet. And then the other thing was going outside those were like the two things that I found, like, so helpful to like reset my nervous system. I would love to know, like, maybe someone is in the state where they're not really recognizing they're in survival mode, right? So they haven't even recognized or maybe they have they haven't spoken it, they haven't taken action. So it's great to take action, but what can what can the people that are maybe witnessing someone that needs support? How can they step in?

Erin Schlozman 9:26

Yeah, so for me, red flags of like studying xiety, postpartum depression, postpartum OCD, if you are witnessing a new parent who is having a physically challenging time being close to their baby, that's always a great place to start the conversation. So like, why are you feeling scared? Like this is what I'm observing. Tell me what you're what you are feeling and let's see how we can get you You that support. So for myself, I'm a therapist, and I know what behavioral, I know what behavior to look for in new parents. But as a peer, I think the thing that you can look for as a peer in terms of think this person might need additional support, and my mind is usually a detachment. So they're not connecting, they're not responding. They're not keeping up like regularly. And also, the one not wanting to be super close to the baby. So let's say my husband works I've observed like, I'm noticing you're extra nervous around the baby like, can you tell me what, what is that? What is it? What are you thinking? What are you feeling, and then exploring from there, because there's a lot of nuance with perinatal mental health. And there is a lot of, oh, this is just what moms go through. But also you want to make sure that you're getting the support you need, and you're helping someone else get the support that they need.

Yeah, and I think with anything in life, and especially this, like vocalizing how you're feeling, and really starting there, and saying, like, you know, I'm feeling this way. And that can be hard, because then there's all this, like, guilt and shame that comes in, like, why am I feeling this way? Am I not equipped to be a mother? Am I not, you know, going to do it the right way? Are they going to judge me all of these things. And I think it's just like knowing the people that are the get it right, and they are going to support you. And there are people out there that might not. But if you see that, then you just try to find the next person that will. The other thing that I would love for you to talk about is how this doesn't only happen to moms like this is also something to look out for. For dads, will you talk a little bit about that

work? Sure. So dads experience and experience of the non caring partner can also experience postpartum anxiety and depression. There have been clinical studies that have shown that I think a great resource for most parents or peers, if parents that you're concerned about is Postpartum Support International, they have wonderful resources on our website. They also have a, I share this with females all the time, they have a great toll like a 24/7 hotline that new moms can use, but also support people for new moms can use. So if you are concerned about your partner, that they're not seeing that something isn't seeming. I mean, nobody in the first month of having a newborn is like

something feels off though, and you want to check

you want to check in that's a great place to start, because you can at least feel the support for yourself to help start building a support for your partner, your friend.

Yeah. And I think sometimes we see these things and people that we love, and we want to say something, but we don't know what to say. And we don't want to say the wrong thing, either. And I think often people say the wrong thing if they haven't experienced something. And so I'd love for you to maybe give us like a couple one liners of good things to say like you said the one like, Hey, I think you're feeling scared. But are there some other like one liners for people to say towards someone that may be experiencing something? And maybe anything that you're like, This is something not to say?

So don't diagnose someone. Okay, leading up. And I think it seems to me that you have such and such. But, um, I mean, you know, in key hitting I statements, so I'm observing, these are the things that I'm observing, I just want to make sure that I am providing you with the best support that I can during this transition. So anything that's like, I own it, i How can I help? How can I help is great. Don't go in with a diagnosis, don't show up at people's houses unex unexpected. I think, texting, don't assume there's a problem. If someone doesn't have a new parent doesn't respond to your text, just basically not making assumptions about behavior. So opening the lines of communication, as opposed to coming in and being like, these are all the things that I'm seeing until you have this, do this. And this is what's going on and this is what you need, and this is what needs to happen. But opening the door for the person who may not even know what to share with you.

Yeah, cuz I think so often, from the research that I've done, how I've seen others experience this and even you know, I didn't I had a pretty good postpartum experience. But everyone after postpartum you're just trying to keep the baby live, check the boxes, make sure you're showing up in the way that you're supposed to. And you're not putting maybe a ton of thought into everything else. And so there There's, you know, times where they may not be like looking at the bird's eye view, they're just in it right? And so being able to, you know, gently say, hey, you know, I noticed this or something that I think is helpful, and it has helped me with a couple of friends is to be able to be like, Hey, would you want to go do this? Or would this be helpful? Offering things? Like, would it be helpful? If I dropped off groceries? Would it be helpful if I came over and we went for a walk? And the response may not even be the response I was looking for in a couple of those situations? wasn't actually yes, come and do this. It was the how they responded, so then I could kind of see, okay, you know, do I need to maybe ask a different question, or do I need to show up a different way and, and I, that seems helpful in those those experiences, but like you said, at the beginning, everyone could be exploring something completely different, right? How one person showing up with postpartum depression, anxiety, OCD, any of the things that you're handling, or they're just a new parent, or they're just a parent going through a hard time, you know, there are so many different things to take into consideration. And so I think, you know, the other thing that's really important to understand and correct me and give some context to this pleases the postpartum phase isn't like the first six weeks, right? It's like, really forever, but especially those first like, is it two years, I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. So the fourth trimester is the first 12 weeks. And that now unfortunately, kind of gets worse with like moms who are returning to work and postpartum. So postpartum actually means afterwards, after birth, I am totally of the camp that like postpartum is forever. There are changes that happen for women after they have babies that lasts forever. There's like Gene swaps that happen and not just on a very cellular level, we actually change when we've carried in birds. So yes, depending on who you ask as part of two years, or as long or longer. I think people think of postpartum too, in terms of just having small kids. And then it's like, but once they're older, you don't you you go back to normal, but that's the whole balance that,

yeah, but there's so many transitions with every age with every, you know, different things that are thrown at you and that you're navigating as a parent. What are some of the things that you recommend that people kind of put into their routine as, as parents in general, but maybe especially first parents, whichever one you want to speak to?

daily walks outside, until the baby up if it's really cold, it's very good for everybody's mental health. It's good for babies. visual stimulation, it's also good for moms mental health being outside. So I think like, non negotiable go for a walk every day, even if you're crying the whole time? Or like, what was it perfect ACB go for a walk, get some fresh air and some vitamin D every day, I think it's like a must have. And I also think, having conversations with your partner about what happens at the end of the workday. So a lot of times a partner comes home to mom who's been with the baby all day is like, take the baby like I need a break. And the partners like I just worked all day and often need a break. And that can turn into a whole source of conflict. So having really clear and direct communication at the beginning, like we're both working really hard. We are team, how can we help support each other? Because I do think taking a long shower. I mean, I've talked about this before, like in any other circumstance do we call hygiene self care? Not usually. But when you're a new parent, and that that luxury of taking, like a really nice hot shower that feels like the best self care that exists. So just making sure that you're carving out time, even small doses to do small things for yourself that remind you that like you are more than just to like milkmaid, and it tushy wiper, and you know, the more than the duties that come along?

Yeah, you know, and I think like when we talk about our goals and life in business, and whatever it is that you're looking to achieve, there's like the mentality standpoint, and then there's like the strategy behind it right? And there's both and when I think back to like, the early stages of motherhood, for me, I think about how I would try to subconsciously bring in both and when you're talking about the showers, I'm thinking about how I used to get with one of those little bouncers and I put it on the floor of my bathroom and put the baby in that so I could see the baby Be and know that I can enjoy my shower because I knew the baby was fine. The baby was right there if I was alone. And those are some of the things where it's like, okay, where's the mental standpoint that I'm at? And what do I need mentally? And then what is the strategy that's going to support that, and that might be putting a bouncer in the bathroom and figuring that out. Or it might be making sure you have someone come over. So you can take a long shower, or whatever it is. But I think it's sitting down and saying, like, okay, what are the things I need for me today? And how can I make those things happen, but when you're in that hard place, and you're in that survival mode, that's hard. So I think like, what you said, is those, those kind of routine things. So you say, Okay, have I showered, have I been outside, and those can kind of become subconscious, like cycles that you're kind of going through. So I really love that. Now, when we have a new human that we're caring for, or even as we go through transitions, as they're older, one of the things that I'm sure you hear a lot about in your community to is kind of the loss of identity, right? And really trying to find yourself some say outside of motherhood. And I say alongside because you're doing both together. So alongside motherhood, what are some of the ways that you recommend like when you're fully in it, right? You're fully caring for these humans, you have to really be there for them in, especially before you're maybe going back to work, or you're really home, maybe it's even when your body isn't really able to do much still? What are some ways that you can really find you again, in those early stages?

That's a great question. So I think this is what I've observed. I think if we scrapped this whole idea of like, you are going to feel like a former version of yourself, we do all of us a favor. Because I don't necessarily think I don't feel, I don't even remember what life felt like before I had kids. And so I surely am the same person. But not, there's no goal to be who I was, before I had kids. So I think be able to recognize that in this transition, just like in all major transitions, you're, you are going to grow new parts of yourself. And you're going to leave behind some of the older parts of yourself, I think about this a lot in terms of careers. Because I've worked with a lot of moms who are like, I just had a baby, I have a career I've worked really hard for now who like, I don't know if I care about my career anymore, or I feel guilty for not wanting to be with my baby all the time. And it's like, understanding that those two things can exist together. So like, you can really miss parts of your life from before you had kids, and really love your kids. At the same time, you can still be focused on your career and feel kind of guilty that you're dropping your kids off at daycare, those can exist at the same time. I don't personally do anyone any favor, when parents when new moms completely neglect themselves. And then 80 years later, they're like, No, that my kids aren't at home. So recognizing that that duality exists and that it's okay. And it's okay to wrestle with yourself in who you are, who you want to be what you want motherhood to look like for you. And just accepting that as part of the process, I think is a really beautiful thing.

Yeah, I love that and that they both just coexist. And I know I saw on your Instagram recently that the constant in motherhood has changed, right. And that's a phrase that's used in all different aspects of life. But I think that's really similar to what you're saying is like, you shouldn't necessarily have the goal of going back to who you were before. But maybe it's bringing out parts of it, where it's like, hey, you know, before motherhood, I really enjoyed hiking. So how can I hike and be a mom, before motherhood? I really enjoyed this, you know, activity, this thing that I used to do, how can I bring parts of that back into my life, but you're an evolving changing person. So you're going to change, you know, I'm going to be a different person when I'm done parenting teenagers as I am parenting toddlers, and you're going to be a different person through each season. And that's, that's life that's beautiful to be able to take both parts and say, How can I do both? And the season? So I'd love for you to talk about how that shows up in your community and your clients where, you know, in one season, you may say is my kids are going to daycare full time in this season, and I'm really invested in work and then maybe in the next season, you say you know what, I'm actually going to push back to part time and I'm going to really be home more and you don't have to pick one thing forever. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about that.

Yes, absolutely. So what works for you today may not work for you tomorrow and what's working for you This year may not work for you or your family a year from now. And I, at least in my own experience, I feel like part of what makes parenting fulfilling is when you find that space where you're able to surrender. So it's like, this is what's working right now. It may not, and may not work be working two months from now, but this is working right now. And also, I think, I know that I personally encourage the new moms that I work with, to like, own their own identity outside of I'm

gonna keep like, I'm Sofia's mom, but like, I'm Sophie as mom. And I'm also, you know, exploring new areas of the career that I want to explore finding new hobbies that I enjoy doing.

Yeah, definitely. And, you know, I'm, I'm just thinking through all the different ways that we transition in life and through this, and it's so easy to say these things, right? Like, it's so easy, like, you can be a mom and more and you are a mom and more. But when you're really just trying to figure out how you're getting your lunches packed for the next day, and how you're getting caught up on laundry, and you have that maybe work, you know, deliverable that needs to be done. And you and your partner are trying to, you know, find a way to connect again, and all the different things that you're trying to balance, it can be hard, it can be hard to figure out how to balance it all. So I would love for you to talk about what are some resources that you support your community with? Like, there's ways for them to connect with people in each of these chapters. But sometimes you need to find those other new moms and something that I've noticed with myself and community members, is it's not always people you already know, right? Because you carry some of this judgment when you go into those spaces and those rooms and those conversations where you're like, Oh, well, they know my husband, or they know my boss, or they know, my mother in law or whatever else. So sometimes finding brand new people can be really good for the seasons of life. So other than finding information through like Instagram and whatnot, what are some, either online, or maybe like I know, there's peanut app and things like that. What are some ways for women to connect with other women that you really recommend? You know, of course, we have the mama has schools community, which I love people tapping into. But I'd love to know what other communities or sources work really well for your followers.

So outside of the inner this is something that I've heard a lot. Lactation groups, whether you are breastfeeding, or formula feeding, are generally really supportive environments, where you will meet other parents who had at the same time or around the same time. But you, you had no idea each other existed. So I know plenty of women who have been like, Okay, I don't want to go, I'm nervous to go, I don't want to go and then they go. And they end up building really, really great and wonderful relationships. I the first time I was pregnant, became really good friends with two of the doctors at the hospital that I had not had relationships with prior, but they're pregnant at the same time. So it's sort of like seeking out pregnant people in your actual, real physical life, not on your virtual. I like I think that building relationships is one of the keys to making motherhood, a really awful experience. What are other ways because there's a million I mean, there's a million online users, Facebook groups, really great Instagram accounts, and wellness communities for moms. But I think that face to face can be really great too. Because if you can go for a walk with someone and they also have a baby, and you're going through the healing process together and you're going through the learning process together. Whether that friendship left 25 years or not, it's still really meaningful in the moment.

Yeah, and right before we pitch play, we were talking about the power of relationships and we were talking about how sometimes that relationship leads you to another relationship right? So just because you meet up with a mom and it might not be like your forever best friend mom, that may lead you to someone else. And so while you're talking with people, you know, say like, Hey, you know, I'm really looking for someone that can connect with me on this like, do you know anyone that also likes to do these things or anything like that? I think that can be huge.

There's a lot of there's a lot of mom friend pressure that happens. And I think a lot of times people are new moms feel like? Well, I have the same, you have babies at the same time. So that means that we are bound to be best friends. And then that comes into a lot of disappointment when it doesn't feel natural, or it's just not a good fit. So that's okay. Like, it's not, it's not for everybody, everybody's not for me, that's gonna happen in every season of life. And that's, you know, you'll find you will find your people, we all find people. So don't get discouraged. If it doesn't happen.

That's a great transition, though, I'd love for you to talk about when you're in motherhood, and I, again, I think this is something that applies to any season. But the first time you deal with it is typically not postpartum phase. And you choose something for your way of motherhood that maybe someone else doesn't agree with, whether it's a mom, friend, or a parent, a grandparent, what are some ways that you navigate that as an individual to stay kind of like strong in your choices? How do you recommend that

this comes out? I mean, there's a lot of infighting with moms when it comes to working at home, working from home working out of the house, postponing your career for a little bit nursing versus formula feeding, co sleeping verse, not perceiving different sleeping methods, I don't think you ever have to explain away your parenting decisions to make somebody else happy, you are informed and making a decision that you know are the healthiest for you and for your baby, then you don't need to explain away the reason, the reasons why you're doing it. I get asked a lot about my own personal experience in terms of Did you miss? Did you do this? Did you do? Did you close, you know all of the different things. And it's like, these are this, I'll tell you the things that I did. But what I did for me does not mean that it's right for you. And I think becoming empowered in early parenthood. Part of that is learning how to rely on your own your own gut and your own instincts and your own parenting, the ways you leave in parenting. I mean, I, I never felt that I needed to defend any of the decisions that I was making. Because I was making them knowing that they were what was right for my family and my baby and myself.

And let's say someone does start like second guessing that right? Like, do you feel confident in your decision? And then all of a sudden, someone like gives you a new piece of information? And then you're like, oh my gosh, I don't even know what I'm doing. Like I don't? Did I make the wrong decision? What do you recommend for the mom in that kind of like mini spiral before it gets too deep? What what is the action that you kind of go? Whoa, hold on?

What was it like to use as the example?

Let's see, let's use let's use like, either like baby led weaning or cry it out method or something like that as an example.

So we can do baby led weaning, I took my son, my husband and I were friends who had a baby accent like four days apart room or baby. And we went to a baby led weaning class and you're like, oh my god, so cute. You can like grab an avocado, and wonderful. And then we went home. And I gave him some stick of something and damned and I was like, Nope, this is not for me. And from that day on I period. I wasn't making him purees. And when he was more comfortable eating solids, the transition to solid love to the idea that I know people have great success with it as slipped me out. And it wasn't going to work. And I was the one that was feeding him most of his meals during the day when he stopped nursing once he was a you know, he could eat solids. And so and I'm pretty sure the family we went with they did baby led weaning with all of their kids. And it was great for a baby led feeding sorry for both of their kids. And it worked. And that's wonderful. Did not for us. Yeah.

So let's play this out, though. Let's say this is a different mom and she's in this scenario, she goes to that class, the baby chokes, then another mom comes in and goes, well, you know, they're going to choke more if they just have periods, like they're going to learn how to eat if it's the baby lead, because I've heard both these conversations, right? So then they're having this conversation, then you're sitting on the other end and you're like, oh my gosh, did I make the wrong decision? Should I have kept it going? Should I have kept it out? How do you stop the mom in that scenario to go? Nope, you made the right decision for you just just stay strong with what's the right decision for you.

So you are feeling pressured? So there's another mom who's like, No, these are all the reasons why you need to do it. And you're like, I just watched me gag and it was terrifying. And then she comes back to you and he's like, Well, no, but really you need to try again because they say that you need to try it however many times If you are a mom, and you are uncomfortable with the method, you don't have to do it anymore. And you don't have to defend yourself to anybody. As simple as I'm so glad that this is what worked for you and your baby. That's great. My Baby and I are figuring out what's going to work for us. Oh,

can you say that one more time version need to like put on repeat that was,

I'm so glad that that is what worked for you and your baby. That's wonderful. My Baby and I are still figuring out what works the best for us.

That is so good. And again, I just think that all of this, I think postpartum gets a really strong attention because it's your new mom, right? You're figuring it out for the first time. But this is all applicable to every age, every thing that you go through, something happens in your family, something happens with your older kids, same thing, someone's like, oh, we really should have taken their cell phone away. Whatever you get to say, You know what, I'm so happy that worked for you and your kid. This is we're working this out here. And it's okay to get feedback, right? It's okay to ask for feedback. And that's what I'd love to talk about next is now let's say you really need help you really need support, you don't know what to do, then what are some of the right ways to find the right people to give you the right advice. Like they're professionals like you.

We've all scrolled through Instagram and seen us early parenting as an example. We've all scrolled through Instagram and see pediatricians and D therapists and seeing feeding experts, sleeping experts. And we usually have like a very initial gut reaction to them, either like this feels good to me, or this does not feel good to me at all. Listen to that. So if you're scrolling through Instagram, looking for different types of sleep, sleep methods, training, sleep, whatever we want to, people call it different things. And you find one that's like, we would do not like this at all. Listen to that. Or if you find one that's like, this is I should try this is something I can see myself doing. I can see this being something that works for our family. Listen to that. And then usually, because I know a lot of moms, new moms, new parents are on Instagram. And that's sort of where we find our experts in different areas. Just because somebody has a lot of hours does not mean you have to be one of them. Just because one method is very popular does not mean that you did participate in that method, you need to really find what works for you and what feels right. Because motherhood is hard enough, there's enough pressure on us being our own worst enemies is not going to make it any easier. So allowing yourself to lean into the things that feel right, and then explore that. So let's say you find a pediatrician, let's talk back to you and you find a pediatrician. And they're talking about whatever schedule they use for their patients who are like, intrigued by it, you can go to their website, usually they will talk about what methodologies they follow. And then you can do some research on your own and see if that's if that's something that you agree with, or don't agree with or want to follow or don't want to. I really think like learning how to listen to your own needs as a parent. And hopes, because then you can advocate for yourself, you can advocate for your kid, and you like don't have to crush your confidence. Because the way that you're doing it is different from the way that other people are doing it. Because you know that you're doing it in a way that's best for you. Yeah, that intuition

piece is huge. So there's so many things that there's no right answer, right? There's sleep feeding all of that, like as long as it's happening, there isn't necessarily one method that is proven to be the best for everyone. But there are certain things that are, you know, really strongly suggested that most parents should follow. And let's use like car seat safety and positioning as an example, right? Most people can align on like car seat safety and what that looks like. Now let's say you're a new mom, and you see a friend maybe not having their car seat put in correctly or not positioned correctly. What are the right ways to help someone out with something that is less opinionated, but more like strong like factual information? How do you present that to a new mom to not be like, Oh, you're doing this wrong and you should you question your abilities and all of that but maybe help someone out what are the right ways to have those conversations?

So I would say I just saw this whole thing on Carsey Can I help you to make sure that your car seat is in the car? The way it's recommended? Perfect, and you're just you're not making any accusation? You're not making any assumptions you're just offering. I mean, I know if someone would have said that, to me would have been like this. Absolutely. Please. If it didn't, they're wrong. I want I want to know that I think always coming from that place of like, not learned this too. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just learned this and I'm excited about it. And I just got the car seat in my grandma's car setup, right? Can I like I would love to inspect yours and see if I can help. I love that.

Amazing. So let's say someone is still just like, man, mom, life is hard. You know, I've had a couple of women in our community recently struggling and navigating some really tough things. What is something that you maybe personally do or that your clients do to just kind of like, reset, like, if you're like, it has been a tough season, we have been doing difficult things, we're trying to navigate this, what is maybe like a day experience, one small action, maybe it's like a date night or something like that, that you're like, hey, prioritize this.

So owning the hard is number one for me, like allowing yourself to say I'm in a really hard place, and that's okay. Instead of trying to change it or trying to make a difference or trying like, in the immediate right now we're trying to push down or deny the fact that you're having a hard time. So allow yourself to have challenges. That's okay. That's okay. And also, when you set a really good example for your kids, when you are able to be honest about this is hard for me right now, I know it's not only are forever and I'm gonna get through it like that. Our kids see everything. And then one actionable, what's one actionable step? Okay. Like, go outside, just go up, like, go outside. If you can, like put your baby in a stroller put on some headphones. Listen to like the guilty to guilty pleasure podcast, we don't always recommend you crying even though I know it's so good, but it can be slipped out a new mom. Um, I think those are two actionable like affirming that it's okay, if it's hard, it's okay. If it's hard, it doesn't mean you're failing. There is no fear if you're trying to have no pain and get outside.

Yeah, and if you are navigating your motherhood journey with a partner, it can be hard to keep that partnership strong and healthy, especially in the early stages. And getting away from home is great when you're able but I always like to focus on kind of those failsafes. Like, if you can't get a babysitter, you can't get out, you have to do something at home, what is one way you can connect with your partner at home with new little humans, or book humans, either our

baby with our first baby with us used to have like, movie nights that the baby was just there with us for the movie night sleeping or wages, whatever the case, but it was just like devoted time that we had been i because what we were like I miss hanging out with you and miss hanging out with you too. Okay, I'll see you in like six years. And so like finding ways to incorporate, like, do the things you used to do, but bring, bring the baby into it also, and, you know, small babies, unless you have a baby who have colic, most of the time, they're very sleepy. And so that, that allows you that time to reconnect. And also, because you're not quick, because we're usually not cleared to have sexy times until the baby six weeks, if you even are ready and want to do it, then those first six weeks really allow you the opportunity to like, dive in together and figure it out together and be team instead of like, both you it's like we are taking this on together. And we can do it. Connected connection.

I love that. Okay, last question I have for you. And then I'd love for you to add anything else is through all of this communication of needs is so important, right? That's really where we started. That's where I run around this out, is there like a system or a way to communicate like, these are the things that I'm holding in my mind early on. Because people talk about this a lot. Maybe it's like, at five, when the kids go to school, they talk about the invisible load of motherhood and the mental load that you're carrying. And like, you know, getting ready for the football game doesn't mean just getting ready. It means washing the Jersey having the jersey getting signed up all of those things. Now, rather than realizing that at a older age, what are some of the ways that very beginning that you can help communicate with your partner some of the things that are going on in your head that you're worried about or you're carrying? Are there any good like sheets or worksheets or systems that can kind of help when you're on overload?

I say this too, for new parents to do a sound approach so that when people come over and they're like, What can I do? How can I help you can just sort of like direct them to all the things that need to get done. I think it's really important to establish that you A team. And this is not real, but you're doing it together and then shared to do this, I think are great because it isn't just like football on Sunday, but it's like, before football on Sunday, this needs to be done. And this needs to be done. And this needs to be done. And you can kind of divide and conquer, and you're looking at the same thing. That can be really helpful. And it's simple.

Yeah, I love that so much. Well, Erin, thank you so much for your time today, I could talk to you forever. This conversation is so important. And it's so important to just like normalize how these things are going with yourself or anyone in your circle. I'd love to know if there's anything you want to add to our listeners, and then also just how they can connect with you and how they can be supported by you.

Yes, you can find me on Instagram, fourth trimester wellness team is on Facebook, I run a like a workbook of the Month Club for new parents. And it's basically every month my audience picks a topic and then I create like a wellness workbook around that topic. And he gets delivered right to your inbox every month. So the links to that is an Instagram. And I really like I still personally respond to all of the DM that I get on Instagram. So if you have any questions, or hesitation and doubt I will be answering for good or bad it will be

walk us through those workbooks a little bit more like give me an example of one of the ones that has come out in the last few months. And then like what they can expect to find in there.

Yes, so the one that is this month or February. Next month, it's an anxiety journal. So kind of similar to some of the things we talked about. And there's all different types of activities. So there's journaling prompts, there's scripts for different scenarios. There's looking at your chart, there's looking at your triggers, like what happened, why did this happen? How come I responded the way he responded, what could I have done differently to prevent that from turning into a really like, high anxiety moment, there is like a crisis plan. It's not really crisis plan. But there's one whole sheet that's like this is who I can call them feeling this, this is who I can reach out to them going feeling this way, if I get nervous about this, this is why I can reach out to you. So there's really, they're very, very full of lots of skills you can walk away with also a lot of education that you can walk away with. And there it's self paced. So if it's like this is applicable for me now this isn't this past month was last month was five steps to healthy boundary setting. So there was a lot of like how to say no without feeling like an asshole, and how to reaffirm what your boundaries are. So those sorts of those sorts of topics are very prevalent in early motherhood, but also very prevalent. Always. Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. I'd love to check it out. As you leave us today, what is one thing that you're really excited about a goal that you have that you're working towards this year or in this season of motherhood?

With a friend getting ready to launch a podcast, and also writing so those are two new endeavors for me that I've not done before, so you can keep an eye out for that the podcast is called I love my baby and, and the premise is really simple. We feel phone calls and emails, where it's like, I love my baby and, and then we talk about it. I'm a licensed therapist, she's a family therapist, so we can kind of we can kind of examine those early motherhood pieces from

that's so cool. I can't wait to check it out. Thank you so much, Erin. Everyone who leaves go follow Erin on Instagram connect with her check out her workbooks can't wait to work with you more, have you back. And on that topic if there was something that Aaron and I touched on today, that you would love for us to come back and go deeper on go ahead and send either of us a message on Instagram or leave a review and rating on Apple podcast telling us what that is and we would love to dive deep on anything that we talked about. See you guys next week. You your story and what you have to offer this world builds me up. I want to meet you join me on Instagram at this is Kelsey Smith. And let's create a ripple effect for mamas with goals together is better