Interracial marriage has become increasingly common, representing over 10% of all marriages in the US. But do spouses in interracial marriages perceive and navigate the world in the same way as their partner? Join TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective as we delve into the complexities of interracial love and shared experiences.

👥 Featured Guest: In this enlightening episode, Brian Stern shares his unique perspective on interracial marriages, discussing the challenges, triumphs, and the power of love to transcend racial boundaries.

Key Takeaways :

• Love Knows No Bounds: Explore how love has evolved to embrace diversity, uniting people across racial lines.
• Shared Worlds, Unique Experiences: Discover whether spouses in interracial marriages perceive their shared world similarly or differently.
• Eliminating Bias: Witness how these discussions can break down stereotypes, fostering a society that celebrates love in all its forms.

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Join us in shaping the conversation about race and diversity in Corporate America. Your voice is essential on this transformative journey! 🌟🗣️

#InterracialMarriage #Love #TonyTidbit #BEPpodcast #Diversity #Inclusion #Equity #SharedWorld #NavigatingLife #RacialBoundaries

🎙️ TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective "TonyTidbit: A Black Executive Perspective" - Elevating Conversations on Race, Leadership, and Diversity in Corporate America 🌟

a black executive perspective whether you're aware 

of it or not it's a topic that is often avoided

we'll discuss race and how it plays a factor and 

how we didn't even talk about this topic cuz we

were afraid a black executive perspective that's 

where I struggle like I don't know like how am

I how am I supposed to navigate this without 

diminishing her without calling attention to

her in a negative way but resolving the issue 

and and hopefully making some progress so that

there's a lesson learned here welcome to a 

black executive perspective podcast a safe

space where we discuss all matters related to 

race especially race in Corporate America I'm

your host Tony tidbit in July 12th 1967 the US 

Supreme Court unanimously interracial marriage

legal in the United States prior to the ruling 

interracial marriage was still against the law in

16 States if you believe that or not only 1% of 

newlyweds were interracial couples at that time

today almost 20% of all Newly Weds differ from 

one another when it comes to race or ethnicity

today 94% of Americans approve of interracial 

made tremendous strides in marriage have the 

same strides been made in couples navigating

And discussing their differences regarding race 

in their marriage Brian Stern welcome to a black

executive perspective podcast no thank you for 

having me I'm excited to be here buddy we're so

glad that you came this is awesome this is a very 

um I don't want to say unique topic but it is a

topic that is very important you know especially 

it was illegal to uh for interracial marriage in 

that state and as I talked about 3% of that time

approved of interracial marriage now 94% 20% 

of all newlyweds of new of Newly Weds are now

interracial couples so we've made tremendous 

strides from an external standpoint however

and you're here to help us navigate in terms of 

internally um you know how the couples uh work

together in terms of communicating about their 

racial differences so exactly I'm very excited

for you to be here for us to to dive into this 

but before we get started tell us a little bit

about yourself what do you do where do you live at 

sure so uh I'm a career ownership coach um I help

people that are primarily in career transition 

maybe looking for something a little bit different

um I do specialize in helping people navigate the 

world of entering entrepreneurship um and this is

a recent change for me but I'm having a lot of 

fun doing it um I do live down on the uh the

Jersey Shore uh with my wife as you mentioned in 

an interracial marriage and I do have a daughter

uh 12 years old um that uh we share a lovely home 

with so in all transparency uh Brian and I have

known each other for 23 years and we met in the 

advertising industry and uh you've thus have made

a transition over to you know uh coaching future 

entrepreneurs so what made you you know want to

make that change in your life at this time frame 

I think a lot of it was uh getting to a point in

my career where I realized I was turning 50 years 

old and still didn't know what I wanted to do when

I grew up um and because of that I actually went 

and got a coach myself and in figuring out what I

wanted to do I actually just enjoyed the process 

of the figuring out piece so instead of moving on

to something else I actually asked my coach can I 

just do what you do I love helping people figure

out what they want to do because I've enjoyed 

the process myself so much that's how I fell

into it and well that is awesome man and and so 

dovet telling on that tell us a little bit about

why you wanted to appear on this podcast and talk 

about this subject yeah so uh I got to be honest

with you I'm I'm a loyal listener and I and the 

thought of being on the podcast was actually kind

of intimidating um I just listening to the the the 

like the expertise the credentials of the people

you've had on and I'm just a middle-aged white guy 

from New Jersey you know so um it is a little bit

intimidating but I I have to say like I've I've 

gotten so much value out of listening and I love

the Mantra making uncomfortable conversations 

comfortable because there's a conversation I've

wanted to have for over 15 years and I've tried 

to have it and I've just not been successful I've

stumbled through it a couple of times it's just 

you know something that I've struggled with and

knowing that you've created this safe space um 

I'm here for ulterior motives I'm here to learn

how to have this conversation I'm here to get your 

perspective on how to have this conversation about

being in an interracial relationship and how to 

navigate it and the issues that we face I know

what the issues are and I have a perspective on 

it I can't say that I'm an expert can't say I have

it figured out that's why I wanted to be here to 

talk about it out yeah I mean that is awesome and

I gotta say this to you too right I mean number 

one I'm you know I'm glad that you're a loyal

listener to a black executive perspective podcast 

that is great I'm glad you like what we're putting

out there um here's the kicker though and look 

I I'm not an expert either but I can share with

you my experience um in terms of what I dealt 

with when it comes to interracial marriage and

some of my friends and family that are in racial 

uh uh uh uh relationships um but you you're kind

of lucking out a little bit I got to say that 

right because you know you get to come on the

platform and and and talk about this and and ask 

me question and if I didn't have this podcast I

would be charging your ass all right just to be 

clear all right you there would be a feet all

right but guess what we have the platform that's 

what this is about it's for us to be able to learn

and share and hear other people's stories so more 

importantly I am uh ecstatic that you you know are

willing to come on this is not an easy thing to 

do to come on and and talk and share your story

to you know who knows thousands maybe millions 

of individuals who may hear this right I know

we're not at Millions uh in terms of subscribers 

yet but you know I'm I'm being optimistic yeah

so so so that is awesome so you ready to have 

this conversation my friend I've been waiting

for 15 plus years to have this conversation okay 

let's talk about it so when you say you've been

waiting for 15 plus years to have a conversation 

tell us give us some background in terms of what

you mean specifically so I've been married for 

15 plus years uh met my wife obviously before

that and honestly race was never really something 

that was top of mind for me growing up it just I

I would have said if you had asked me when I was 

a kid how much does race impact your life I would

have said it doesn't impact it at all right my 

perspective has changed dramatically I realize

now it impacts 100% of my life and it always has 

and it always so hold on right there real quick

right so you you just got finish saying hey if you 

I would asked you 15 years ago and how this race

impact your life you have said it doesn't impact 

my life why would you have said that at that time

frame I think it's because I I took for granted 

that it wasn't something that impacted me because

I felt free to go almost anywhere I'd like to go 

I felt like I could um play in any Arena that I

wanted to play in um now I know the reason I felt 

that way is because of my race right so now I know

that that that was actually a privilege that I had 

um and it just didn't really occur to me until you

become more sensitive to it and you become more 

sensitive to it by being exposed to more diversity

I mean I grew up in a very homogeneous rural 

area in New Jersey so until you get exposed to

those things and you start to realize and become 

more sensitive to it you know you don't recognize

that race does impact you no matter who you are 

no matter where you are so and and you're 100%

correct what changed though in terms of now I see 

the world totally different than you did you know

prior to 15 years ago I mean I did start to see a 

little bit of a difference when I went to college

naturally you get exposed to to to more people to 

more environments to more experiences but I will

say I became extraordinarily sensitive to it when 

I met my my wife right because you start to notice

things that impact you on a on a deeper level than 

would if you just see them out in the wild so to

speak things like walking into a store and know 

noticing how the the the uh the retail reps in the

store don't talk to your wife or the way that they 

do talk to her right and then the way that that

I'm used to them talking to me or treating me and 

when you see the disparity there and you get hyper

sensitive to it um it's it's it kind of disrupts 

your entire way of thinking your entire reality

gets adjusted by that I mean we've had incidents 

in stores like I mentioned we had had an incident

with um once my child was born you have different 

difference experiences I think a big turning point

for me was when I realized how much is this going 

to impact my child so my my wife took my daughter

to a daycare to just explore it see if this would 

be a good fit for us and as soon as she walked in

they told her that she couldn't afford it they 

told her that this wasn't the right environment

for her the child and she came home upset and she 

she knew at this time this is a racial issue it

was clearly racial cuz she looked around the 

room it was entirely white you know there was

no diversity there and you know my my inclination 

is I'm driving right back to this place and I'm

going to raise hell I'm going to go give him a 

piece of my mind but my daugh my wife her her

her initial reaction was just let it go don't 

don't worry about it just let it go we'll just

move on and that's been the the the the the course 

of action in almost every incident that I've that

I've experienced with her whether it's in a store 

and somebody I I feel is not treating her right

or anytime I I I get a sense that something might 

be related to race I want to you know stand at the

top of the mountain and start screaming my lungs 

out you know this isn't right um her reaction is

always don't worry about it just let it slide 

it's not a big deal or I don't think this has

anything to do with race I don't think it does 

or you see it differently you you definitely

think it hasn't and I am I'm hyper sensitive to 

it now and I always have been and and it's been

exaggerated since I've had a child because that's 

where you know you of course you know you don't

want your child to have to face these things so 

my wife is from the Philippines she was born and

raised there she came here after she's completed 

high school and was this the first time you ever

dated somebody outside of your race yes seriously 

yes you you hesitated a little bit like you you

well I I I had but it was really like you know a 

one first date kind of one date thing and then you

know but this was the first relationship okay all 

right and then you know growing up in South Jersey

did you ever see yourself being with somebody 

outside of your race at that time frame I don't

know that I ever considered it either way it just 

it it just wasn't part of the thought process to

me it it when I met her it really wasn't part 

of my thought process even when I met her it

really wasn't like it just wasn't something I 

had considered that she is a different culture

A different race it's just she's a cool person 

I'd like to hang out with so it really wasn't

an issue for me there I think meeting her family 

um you know I wanted to see how I'd be perceived

as an outsider similar with my family I I was 

curious to see how she'd be perceived and both

of our families were very welcoming we're very 

thankful for that and I think that's part of what

made me so hyper sensitive to when I'd see things 

externally because if my family could could could

approve of her and love her I don't understand 

why everybody else has right let me ask you this

did um did you guys ever talk about race at all 

before you got married did you talk about the

differences did you you just said hey I wanted to 

meet her parents and wonder if there was going to

be an issue and was there I mean did any of that 

come up did you guys talk about any differences

how the world you would have to deal with the 

world did you any of that stuff come up I'll

tell you the one time something came up I met her 

stepfather he was an African-American man Alabama

so her mother had come here uh before Ruby had 

come here her mother had been here and had gotten

remarried and so that added another Dynamic he 

was actually the one person who brought it up

what did he say what's this white boy doing in 

my he said what what's this white boy doing in

my apartment was he joking he and I were great or 

was he really serious it was hard to tell with him

it was hard to tell with him but I think there 

was something behind that but it was interesting

because he himself was in an interracial marriage 

being African-American his wife was Filipina but

uh you know that he it took a while for me to 

win him over U but uh but in general it was very

accepting and there really wasn't a a tremendous 

strain or tension in the fact that we were coming

from different races okay so that's great there's 

yeah everybody's you know singing kumaya they all

for it back to my question though did you two 

do you and Ruby ever when you're dating I mean

I would imagine imine before you got married you 

went to a restaurant or you went to a store so

I would imagine and you tell us did you see these 

type things back then before you even got married

did you guys ever talk about absolutely you know 

how it is that she the world that she deals with

versus the world that you deal with I I tried 

many times and this is what I wanted to talk

to you about in part because the conversation is 

extremely labored right we tried when I would see

something that she not getting serviced in a in a 

store or or you know somebody would kind of push

her out of the way in the subway station right 

like when I see little things like that or you

know I'd have to jump out and call the taxi right 

like there are little things like that um and I'd

want to talk about it but the response I would 

constantly get is don't worry about it don't make

a big deal about it just move on like let's just 

yeah go go go somewhere else let's do something

else there really wasn't the ability to talk about 

it like I I mentioned in my you know when we were

first talking about why I want to come on the 

podcast I tried I stumbled you know through it

and it was difficult it's a hard conversation 

to have and the problem is we could talk about

anything we can talk about finances we can talk 

about our kid we can talk about vacations we're

equal footing when we talk about all those things 

this is the one area where we are not equal the

the the way that she walks through the world is 

always going to be different than the way I walk

through the world and because I can I see these 

things now and I'm hyp sensitive to them I can

sympathize with her I cannot empathize and that's 

a big issue and because of that I struggle having

those conversations so you know you you beat me to 

the punch and you but you answered the question I

was going to ask you right away like do you guys 

talk about other stuff and you just said hey we're

Partners in everything but you know finances our 

our child's education vacation just regular how's

your day you guys talk about everything but when 

it comes to race it doesn't she's just always very

you know no big deal let's leave it alone um so 

let let me ask you this how about your daughter

tell us to tell us a little bit about the dynamic 

there does Race come up her based on her being

biracial do is it a different Dynamic is does that 

conversation come up so with her it comes up often

and she's open to talk about it so my daughter's 

interesting in that she can fit in almost anywhere

I've had people walk up to her and start speaking 

Spanish I've had people walk up to her and start

speaking Arabic you know she she can fit in to 

to almost any culture she has this that you know

this deep Olive complexion she's got this this 

really like I don't know how you would say it

but it's just like this face of like you know 

everybody that's in every commercial now where

you can't tell what race they are right that's 

the kind of face she has right so for her she is

just as hyp sensitive as I am and she's willing 

to talk about it and she's willing to make a big

deal about it which is so interesting because she 

takes after her mother in so many ways except for

this one way in that she will you know want want 

to take the mantle and she'll stand up for people

when she sees things she'll want to talk about 

it she'll she'll want to call people out um it's

just a very different Dynamic and I don't know 

how much of that is because she can like walk

between Both Worlds or is it a generational thing 

you know that's what I wonder you know so have you

you so backing up a little bit you said when you 

met her father and first thing he said is who's

this white dude why he in my house all right so 

for him to say that I would imagine race came up

at some point in their relationship um just for 

him to say that right right he's her father he's

black his her Mo you know her mother is Filipino 

I would I would imagine that came up so I mean

have you chatted with her parents in terms of this 

issue and that she won't speak on it and cuz what

I'm thinking is there an issue that happened when 

she was a kid that you know could been traumatic

and and she just don't want to talk about it 

and so when this comes up she's just like I

don't even want to deal with it so I'm just trying 

to I'm just I'm in Pro here any conversation with

the family on any history anything like that 

so I never really got in depth with her her

stepfather on it he was very standoffish and stuff 

and he didn't even meet her until like got so yeah

he don't know you know but her mother I've had 

conversations with and she interestingly she was

a school teacher in Manhattan for about 30 years 

um and so she dealt with the Dynamics of you know

a very diverse classroom and had a lot of those 

conversations over time she had actually even

been called in front of the board of education 

for a student claiming that she was a racist at

one time and so she brought me her son-in-law 

she brought her her husband who happened to be

African-American and we went and sat with her and 

they were like who's this and she's like that's

my family right so I've had some conversations 

with her about it um and she's very much in that

similar vein of I you know I'll talk to you about 

it but she's not going to really give me what she

really feels or what she really believes or or the 

depth of of of what her experience is because it's

very much a um we just deal with it so it's not a 

big deal and to me it is a big deal and I I this

is why I wanted to talk to you too because I know 

that you you you're in an interracial marriage as

well and I'm curious I'm so curious if your wife 

brings stuff up the way I bring stuff up with my

wife does she bring stuff up and how do you react 

to it yeah you know so that's a good one right so

so I answer your question specifically yes was it 

that way in the beginning no okay so so and the

reason I'm I'm asking the questions I can I can 

relate to your wife a little bit I think a lot of

people who are listening to uh uh this this this 

episode who are people of color um they can relate

a little bit in terms of you know the um not 

just let it go right just let it go you know what

forget about it and you know here's the kicker 

well there's a lot you I don't know if we got

enough time double A is this an hour episode or 

we is this a 247 you know what I'm saying is this

uh you know what I'm saying this is one of those 

bin series and stuff that nature right we'll see

what people's attention span is nowadays cuz I can 

take a long long time right so there's a lot right

there there there's historical issues there's 

self-esteem issues there's uh there's there

there there there are you cultural issues there 

there's a lot to it right I for me I I can speak

specifically for me for me it was a self-esteem 

issue okay and so when things like that happened

to me I didn't say a whole lot I didn't like 

now you kidding me I I you know don't even try

it right but yeah there was times when I was a kid 

was called every and this wasn't and just be clear

this wasn't by white kids this was by black kids I 

was called every you know black name under the sun

um because of colorism okay because colorism in 

terms of you know groups every group I don't care

if you're Hispanic you're you're you're you're 

you're Cuban you're you're African-American you're

Italian uh darker people are are are are are done 

and lighter people are better they're smarter

they're so that that that is for real right and 

I dealt with that and then more importantly you

know my I had a different father than my my um 

my siblings I was the oldest my father I was dark

skinned and my my sister my brother and my two 

sisters were light-skinned okay and so even with

them when I get in fights with them remember one 

time my sister called me a black blah blah blah

my mother heard and she went off on her and don't 

you ever do that so so so so just when you hear

that and you're a young kid it be for me it was 

a self-esteem issue okay and then as I got older

I was just I hate to say it just trying to stay 

out of the way I mean I didn't because you know if

somebody did something or whatever I didn't even 

want to deal with the confrontation where does

that go how am I by me being uh uh uh combative 

you know how do that make that situation better

I should have been but at that time frame I wasn't 

trying to make no wavs all right so so there's a

lot to it in terms of you know why people just 

say Let It Go why people um don't really push

back and and there's things I'm not even thinking 

about I remember when you know I go to Martha's

Vineyard every year right for vacation and we had 

brought my my uh my wife's sister and her husband

they came and stayed a week with us and we were 

walking around and then my nephew um who who uh

my my sister's son he came we we flew him up and 

he's like 6'5 um and he and he was like 18 at the

time last year in high school and he's tall black 

guy right and then uh he was holding hand to hand

with my my my wife's um my nephew from my wife's 

side who's Lily White right and we're walking

down Martha we walking in edger toown I think it 

was we're walking around and we're having a good

time and I'm just minding my business and then 

later that day her husband said to me he was

no it wasn't even later that day I think it was 

it was that around not I think it was around the

same time frame he was like I don't get it how do 

you take what these people are looking at you the

way you know he said something like how do you and 

and I didn't even he because he was like where you

are he was like I couldn't take this look how they 

looking at you how do you take it and I was just

like what are you talking about because I was at a 

point where I don't even pay attention to that no

longer it's so prevalent it's been so part of who 

I am everywhere I've been at and especially since

you know I married my wife or we started dating 

you you just become uh what's the word I want to

use um I'm not even sensitive it just becomes like 

a callous you don't even think about it because if

I had to think about that all the time Brian I 

could not be who I am I couldn't Prosper cuz I

would always think everything is they're doing 

this to me because I'm black they're they're and

nobody wants to be in that your wife doesn't 

want to be in that nobody that's an area and

I know I got friends of mine people I know who 

are talented who could be anything but because

that is their mindset they don't go far because 

now every the leaf blew down my street cuz I was

black all right so so and again I'm I'm I'm I'm 

I'm I'm embellishing a little bit but what I'm

saying is that has a lot to do with it right and 

and so back to your question um when when me and

my wife who I met when I worked up in Boston we 

worked at the same company okay and she was our

marketing person I was a sales account executive 

selling television advertising um and it was it

wasn't love at first sight we just we started 

working together and then we you know started

all as an office we all hung out and we went 

drinking and you know then her and I started

chatting and the next year you know we went to 

the movies and you know then it became you know

we started you know taking it seriously um and so 

I'll be honest with you so for me I was like cuz

my this is my second marriage my first marriage 

I was married to a black lady all right loved her

to death we loved her just didn't work out right 

so did I ever say that I would marry um somebody

outside of my raise no but I wasn't opposed to it 

my mother always was you know she always you know

taught us about you know whoever loves you who all 

I care about is they take care of you I don't care

what color they are I don't care where they come 

from long as they love you for you and they take

care of you that's all that matters right so that 

was always our mindset however so but when me and

my my wife got together you know and she grew 

up in a small town outside of Boston I'm from

Detroit Michigan you know I was like wow this 

is great you know and I was I was thinking oh

she must know what black people go through okay 

because she's willing to to to to to date a black

guy right no she ain't had no clue okay she a had 

no clue right that was me being naive that was me

being like oh this must be right and so you know 

we had our own issues in the beginning right she

noticed a few things when we first started dating 

going to restaurants and stuff to that nature she

would see my face change when I'm waiting for 

the waiter you know I'm like I said when I was

a kid and I was younger I really didn't push 

back or same thing and then finally a button

went off and I was like no I'm not doing that no 

longer so you know I I hold people accountable I

call things out as I see them um when it comes 

to disrespecting me in my face if I'm walking

down the street and people looking at me fny I 

don't care about that that's your problem right

but when I go to the store or I'm in a restaurant 

or you know people just like just SHO sh me away

or don't give me the respect that I deserve as a 

human being then I'm going to call him out right

so so but in the beginning she saw a couple of 

things um but the big thing happened is when we

had kids and then she saw how our kids the na the 

world they had to navigate how the school system

you know same things that you were talking about 

with your um your daughter right and then so my

wife became more sensitive she it wasn't that she 

wasn't sensitive she was sensitive to overt racism

like the disrespect stuff in restaurants but she 

wasn't you know uh um sensitive to all the issues

and all the microaggressions and all the misnomers 

and stereotypes and all that type stuff she just

wasn't so so that was stuff and to be honest that 

we sit down and have a conversation and I say well

look you know you can't do this you know or this 

is no I read I can give you a million examples I

remember I don't know what case this was I can't 

remember what it was but it was a police brutality

case uh the police said they did this and the 

black dude or was a woman I can't remember exactly

what it was and they said no that didn't happened 

okay and then my wife I mean we were watching the

news and she was like why would the police make 

something up okay that because because the bottom

line she's like where she grew up the police 

they're your friend right they they're they're

they're there to protect you right where I grew 

up that ain't the case all right and that so so

right then this is my point here she was like 

why would the police lie and I'm like because

they lie because here's a a person of color 

and they treated this person any way and they

know that this person who's telling them who's 

who's basically uh making an accusation a lot

of people won't believe that person because they 

are the police right but I and and I had a million

experiences with this so is a lot of people of 

color who's listening to this friends and stuff

that nature but this is my point so there was 

still even though we fell in love even though

we had kids even all that there still was uh what 

you was is it unconscious and conscious issues um

because of where she grew up what she saw her 

experiences and what I grew where I grew up and

what I saw in my experiences and to be fair going 

back to your situation with your wife I didn't sit

her down and say let me tell you everything that's 

going on I I didn't even want to talk about it I

didn't why and that's what I struggle with want 

to talk about right because it's just one you

use the word I I think I'm I'm sorry to interrupt 

but you know you use the word callous that you've

developed this over time so when you're a newborn 

baby and you're skin is Super Fresh right and

Hyper sensitive to everything well that's what 

I feel like I was like when I first got together

with my wife I don't have the callus and and your 

wife didn't have the callus either right so when

these things happen we are not equipped in any way 

to to to to process it in in the right ways or the

wrong ways I don't know but we're not equipped to 

process it in any way right so what happens is I I

get hyper sensitive I want to talk about it and I 

want to I want to do something and take some sort

of action right and there's this imbalance because 

my wife has the callus and wants to just you know

let it slide or move past it because she doesn't 

want to focus on it I don't know how to get to

that point where we are on the same page and 

how to manage these things and it's a particular

concern as you mentioned once you have a child 

once there are children in the mix because do

you want to let these things slide what kind of 

example is that setting for my kid right my kid

wants to talk about it but my wife tells her don't 

worry about it and I'm like no no what happened we

got to we got to fix this who can I talk to who do 

who do I got to go smack on the butt right like so

we're coming at it from a very different way I 

feel like after 15 years I'm starting to learn

how to process it I'm starting to I wouldn't call 

them calluses but my Skin's getting a little bit

tougher but I still don't know the right way 

to address these situations right if we are in

a store and my wife is waiting to be helped and 

three other people who've come in after her are

getting helped before her what's my role right 

what I mean what what would you expect of an

ally in that situation should they come forward 

and say hey why aren't you helping my wife and

bringing up that maybe it's racial or is it just 

yeah I I don't know the right thing to do here

because if my daughter's there do I want to make 

it a different conversation or I just want to you

know wait patiently for her to be so so so again 

dou way is this a B series because that's I I can

go a million ways I can go a million ways with 

your question right um's nod and say no it's not

a business Series so we got to stay on point okay 

so so here's here's the thing right number one so

let's be clear here and I'm going to be clear and 

I know you love your wife and I'm going to use me

in this example and I said earlier I didn't say a 

lot that was a mistake nothing changes unless you

hold people accountable okay you have to speak 

out on it that doesn't mean you got to bring a

club back and like or you know but you have to 

speak on it you have to okay you you you have to

do that right so and let me give you an example 

give you a and again I I just told you earlier

I just let it go cuz it was more of a self-esteem 

issue okay but then once I got past that you know

when I moved out here to Connecticut um I used 

to drive to Detroit uh from Connecticut all the

time visit family it was I was doing business 

out there so it was just a regular thing I was

driving I would you know at a certain way I go 

84 80 I go through Pennsylvania so I remember

this one time I was going through Pennsylvania I 

had to pull over and get some gas small town in

Pennsylvania I don't remember and as I pulled up 

and this was back in the '90s uh early '90s where

you had to go inside to pay for the gas okay so 

I remember uh I pulled up and as I pulled up this

white guy on this Harley motorcycle he pulled up 

the same time okay and big dude I mean and he had

the U was was what's the Hell's Angels right he 

had the Hell's Angels uh jacket on you know tats

whole n yards I'm like look at this dude right so 

I'm like automatically I'm on my Spidey senses are

going off right so I I was like look let me get 

the gas and get up out of here right so I walk in

he walked in right behind me in the store we get 

to the counter there's a lady right in front of me

I'm right behind the lady and then this big dude 

is right behind me okay the lady gets whatever

she wants she leaves I step up to the counter 

the dude looks around look I'm I'm getting away

from the mic so cuz I'm getting hyped let me stay 

in the mic cuz you're not going to hear me cuz I

still get mad at this right the Dude Looks around 

me and says to the big motorcycle dude can I help

you and the Motorcycle Dude this I mean this 

dude was like 65 200 he he started to take a

step up and said yeah and I was like hold on I I 

mean immediately I was like hold on man I looked

at this dude I was like I was next and the dude 

was like oh I didn't see you I was like what do

you mean you didn't see me I was standing right 

here there's only three of us in the store I you

can see how I buddy I was so mad right and then 

I looked at this dude for he was like trying to

back up a little bit and then I looked at him 

from like 30 minutes 30 seconds I was Furious

right so I said he said what do you want I was 

like fill it up on whatever number it was right

then immediately after I started comaling down 

if I got this big dude this big har motorcycle

dude was behind me I was like oh man now this is 

going to be so I turned around I said sorry about

that man you know what he said he said no man you 

were right okay so you got to call it out you have

to call it out right he didn't see me you kidding 

me here okay so so so but I had to get up to that

level of being able to hold people accountable 

same thing with my wife okay my wife now is you

know it's funny because in the beginning she had 

no clue you know uh there was some difficulties

just be clear here because she grew up different 

and it's not her fault she grew up in a way her

experience was just different than mine okay 

it was naive for me to think oh she likes me

so she'll be okay with all the black experence no 

because what she heard and what she saw and her

friends and family and what they said or didn't 

say about black people people of color you know

it it just didn't fit that narrative however now 

she's the white Angela Davis okay and I I I I mean

that I'm not even flat out my wife is she's 

like you Brian she is very sensitive she sees

everything right I'll tell you another quick story 

and this is Martha venard thing okay we this was

back our daughters were we went we go to Martha Z 

every year so this was our daughters maybe three

or four and typically when the the the the ferry 

we take the ferry home it stops off in Woods Hole

and then you drive and there used to be this IHOP 

um you know and we were like we going we we call

6 o'clock in the morning FY we're like we'll just 

get breakfast at IHOP so we drive to IHOP it's on

the way home right we get there place is packed 

we put our names in it tooks a while they look we

finally get in we sit at the table right we're 

hungry the kids are hungry and they just don't

come by to ask us for anything how can we help you 

hey just so you know it's really crowded we'll be

with you short nothing all right they just kept 

walking past us serving everybody else my wife and

and again she sees it she sees it right and I'm 

getting mad and to be honest I'm trying to stay

calm because I know me but she's getting becoming 

Furious right and then all of a sudden she uh the

waitress was walking past her and she grabbed the 

waitress arm and said are you going to effing come

and serve us what's the issue and the waitress 

was like you know trying to play oh I'm sorry I'm

sorry and then the waitress went into the kitchen 

my wife followed her in the kitchen and then start

saying where's the manager at I want her fired all 

I mean everybody in the whole IHOP is looking and

and and she's like I want her fired I want her 

fired so I'm trying to calm her down I'm like

Gail Gail calm down she's like look don't take 

up for them you know what I'm saying and I'm like

I'm not taking up for them I'm just trying to calm 

you down right hold them see when you see it when

you see it and you're not used to that you become 

Furious and this is what people of color deal with

all the time so now here's here's my my thoughts 

on that because I've had this same experience and

i' I don't get I didn't go into the kitchen but 

similarly in a in a restaurant you know we we got

served but then they never came to check on us you 

know we're eating spicy food they wouldn't give

us water like it was one of those things where I 

was like what's going on here like I'm dying but

uh you know finally I just grabbed somebody and 

I was like where can I go to get my own water for

for me and my family right like I'll go get it 

since you're obviously too busy for us right and

I clearly expressed that I thought this was like 

you know a racial thing now my wife was furious

with me for doing that right for calling attention 

to it now so my perspective is I'm standing up and

trying to do the right thing and her perspective 

is that I somehow called more attention to her

and my daughter unwanted attention because of 

the situation so in my in my view I thought I

was doing the right thing by standing up for but 

in her perspective I was in some way I don't I

don't know if this is the right word but like 

diminishing her in a way right because I was

calling attention to this inequity and making a 

bigger deal out of it than my wife wanted me to

make so in that situation I mean your wife's 

going into the kitchen and demanding someone

be fired like she's doing that with all the right 

intentions as I would and I have but what is your

experience and that situation when your spouse and 

like me for my my wife when we're going and trying

to you know right or wrong and with all the right 

intentions but we may be doing it in a way that's

insensitive to your experience and I don't that's 

where I struggle like I don't know like how am

I how am I supposed to navigate this without 

diminishing her without calling attention to

her in a negative way but resolving the issue and 

hopefully making some progress so that there's a

lesson learned here yeah I mean so look my friend 

and and again can't speak for your wife right I

don't know if there's something that happened you 

know when she was a kid and this is just a a a

you know uh a PS demo I don't know right there's 

something there right so and and if she doesn't

communicate that way to you it's hard for you to 

your point to be able to to know the right thing

to do but here's the kicker this is what I think 

and I I wrote this down when you were asking this

question I think you have to do you and you 

got to let her be her you can't make somebody

who doesn't want to deal with something deal with 

it and and who knows maybe it's uncomfortableness

maybe to your point maybe she sees it as a a a a 

diminishing her as a human being to bring it up

because you know she wants to walk her head with 

dignity and no matter what somebody does that's

not going to stop her from you know seeing herself 

as being you know a full human being with all the

respect so and it could be that I I I don't know 

right however I think as you being her husband you

know that you know you ever read the book um the 

five love languages buddy you should pick that up

it's a good book yeah sounds like I should right 

and uh you know and just to give you an example of

the book maybe some body in the audience read it 

I would recommend that every couple read it I re

be honest with you I would recommend that uh even 

if you're not in a relationship you read it okay

because every human being has a different love 

language okay everyone and N nine times out of 10

we struggle is because we don't understand their 

love language and they don't understand our love

language right and in the book there's this five 

love languages and just to give you an example you

know this couple goes to therapy and um you know 

the the therapist says what's the issue and the

wife says he don't love me and my man was like 

that's a lie I tell her I love her all the time

right I mean from from a a a bird's eye view you 

be like well the dude's telling me he love her so

maybe she she ain't listening or whatever case 

beat no that wasn't the case her love language

is not by affirmations her love language is by 

what he does for her he can tell her all day

long he love her but he ain't taking the garbage 

out okay he not doing this he not that's her love

that language by him doing stuff like that says 

he loves me okay and then some other people you

know are you know affir Masia the dude never says 

oh she don't never say she love me how do I know

she love me well I cook for you I do this That 

Ain't My love language I want to hear you love

me right I mean so so that's to be honest nine 

times of 10 those are big issues that we don't

even know because we don't understand each other's 

love language like I'm a physical touch anybody

know me I'm a touchy Huggy person okay flat out 

okay you ain't hugging me you ain't you don't

love me okay that's just how I am right my wife 

is time okay spending time okay that's how I show

that I love her by spending time so everybody's 

got different languages okay so I would recommend

you pick that up because that would be just in 

general okay however back to the point at the

end of the day you can't make somebody want to 

chat about something um and they don't want to I

always believe there's a root issue to everything 

always all in every circumstance there's a roote

issue also I would add it's a cultural thing 

too you know bu even though people of color

you know we're all different cultures and to my 

knowledge you know I Asian friends and stuff very

very Reserve culturally generally speaking would 

you would you agree right so like you know you

know the the the I I would say you know the 

African American Experience or you know the

black experience here even the Latino latinx 

experience you know we're we've been fighting

here you know like we you know up put your hands 

up we scrap like know we're generally Scrappers

right like you know civil rights you know we have 

these examples of just people just just not going

to take it anymore you know and then there's a lot 

of that in our culture in American culture so I I

would say there something there's something I you 

know maybe there's something to that you know just

I'm not a psychologist but that just my two cents 

and and and so double way thanks for that and

that's an excellent point and that's where I was 

talking about a little bit about you know at the

end of the day she may feel like this is beneath 

her okay and you know what that's fine but she

has her husband who's her protector all right she 

has her husband who's making sure that she's not

disrespected when he's around she has her husband 

that's going to speak on their behalf as a family

as well as his daughter that is awesome and if you 

were tell the the the the key is I mean there's

a lot of couples where somebody ain't saying you 

know not even speaking up and and and their wife

or husband is being disrespected they say nothing 

right so so it's it's a tough thing man so back to

doublea's point you know the it could be cultural 

it's really what is the there's a root issue right

and let's just say if it was cultural let's let's 

go by what da says let's say it's a cultural issue

how would you how would you deal with that how 

would would things change from your standpoint

I don't know that they would I think that I still 

am going to because the way that I react to these

things I haven't developed that callous yet right 

I'm still hyp sensitive to it and because of my

daughter I'm also hyper sensitive and it's really 

difficult for me to to watch and and see these

things and react in the way that may be more 

appropriate for her culturally for example if

she is more reserved which she is I admit that her 

culture they're very reserved they're not ones to

to to cause a stir and and push back um in the 

face of inequity at any great length they will

behind closed doors but not in the moment right um 

so I don't know that it would change dramatically

the way that I would act in a situation or the way 

that I would um want to address it with her either

because I haven't processed there I haven't had 

enough time to process the world that she walks

through and I don't know I ever will because I 

I'm white you you know and it's not something

I'm going to be able to to again empathize with 

experiencing those can I so I just want to push

back a little bit on what you just got finished 

saying right I I think you can empathize right I

I really do because you see it you see the world 

that she deals with your daughter deals with and

it's a different world than than you've dealt with 

so you can you in other words I'm not saying that

you're going to know everything of course not so 

I hear your point but that's part of the change

that's part of people learning is to be able to 

empathize is to be able to put themselves in the

other person's uh shoes or see their own uh their 

point of view and like wow I never understood

that wow now I got a better understanding so I 

think the empathy is there go ahead yeah I had

a buddy of mine who um um he's from he's from the 

Connecticut from you know from Daran and he lived

in Hawaii you know you know white affluent young 

man um and you know lived out there was living his

you know living the dream you know was out there 

with his brother Ren in a house and he told me

stories of how you know he was discriminated 

against you know by the locals because he was

white you know he his house got robbed several 

times because he was white you know and they told

him that was the reason so you know he ended up 

realiz you know that he he learned it that way I

mean it wasn't fun but that's how he got empathy 

you know he told me he's like wow you know I

experienced it personally you know as a as a white 

person like I was discriminated against because it

happens right you know so sometimes until it 

happens to you you know what I mean or or you

really see you know like I think you know until 

it happens to you you won't really you know nobody

really has that ability to always have you know 

get into other people's you know shoes and feel

that empathy it's not it's not an easy thing to 

do you and speaking and and even taking it to the

next level this is where we as a as a uh as human 

beings this is where we struggle is because when

and again I'm going to I'm going to I'll use me as 

an example right let's say I met my wife and let's

say I wasn't there wasn't a self-esteem issues or 

I didn't you know I was more you know proactive

and said you know these things happened and these 

always watch when we go to this restaurant watch

and see what happen watch watch watch watch oh you 

know what this because of this this and that well

guess what because she hasn't experienced that 

there is no empathy so she's they could be looking

back saying he's making excuses okay because this 

stuff ain't happening you know and that's what

that's real people they're today like oh they're 

always complaining or they're always that ain't

true or this there it's no it's not a cultural 

issue when it comes to people of color in the

police department is a few bad apples right so at 

the end of the day there is you can't have empathy

like that because you haven't experienced it right 

so now people just making it up or they trying to

get a buck or you know and that unfortunately 

that's a narrative that people push out to say

this stuff is all people crying okay and so you 

do have empathy my friend because you're taking

up for your family you see it right and you're 

like I can't believe this and it's nothing wrong

with being hyper sensitive to it and to be fair 

if more people were hyper sensitive to this this

podcast wouldn't even exist right there'll be 

more uh uh uh uh people of color and uh in in

seite positions there'll be anything you can name 

it would be better because people was sensitive to

it because they experienced it and theyve seen it 

for themselves what's your thoughts on that I mean

I I agree I I I think I'm struggling with the word 

empathy tell tell us why I still think of I still

feel like because I haven't experienced what dou 

was saying about his friend going to why I haven't

had that level of of discriminatory action against 

me um so I still struggle with with with really

believing that I can empathize I still think I'm 

more on that that sympathize I'm on that I will

say I am on the the far end of the spectrum now in 

terms of awareness which is I think that's big for

me because growing up that just it just wasn't an 

issue that I that I was ever talked about I mean

my family was very open to everybody and you 

know we we you know my my parents have always

been very open-minded and we were you know taught 

that everybody's equal but when you grow up in a

homogeneous neighborhood you don't really see 

the reasons why that's so important to believe

those things um so I still struggle with that 

that I haven't really felt the Thousand Paper

cuts that you may have gone through that my wife 

may have gone through right like I just i' I've

I've seen a few Beast thingss here and there right 

and that's enough to get me riled up but the the

Thousand Paper Cuts over time that you develop the 

calluses like that's where I struggle with with

believing that I can truly empath yeah so look 

we may just have a different um definition of

the empathy because you will never to be honest my 

friend you'll never get the million Cuts okay it

just ain't going to happen right so I I I think 

and and and you consider your wife you and her

as one right when your wife hurts when your wife 

hurts do you hurt so there you go absolutely and

I think in this instance what I what I believe 

is that many times I feel like I'm hurting more

than she is and and and I don't know I can't say 

it is I can't say it's not but maybe maybe maybe

that could be and but that's part of the empathy 

part you are hurting you are those experiences

do hurt you because they're hurting your wife 

they're hurting your daughter right so but I

I I hear your point if you're look at the end of 

the day you're not it's just unless to like double

AES gave example unless you move somewhere and 

you're the minority and you're getting stomped

on and and and and and and and and talked about 

and and and disparaged over and over again then

absolutely absolutely cuz ultimately you know the 

empathy has to come from you know acknowledging

that hey this is fundamentally wrong exact it's 

real number one it's real all right and like you

said it's fund so that and you see that right now 

and you've seen it let's be fair I'm backing up

because you said 15 years okay since you guys been 

together right and you've been taking up for her

in these situations for 15 years okay I mean buddy 

I you know it may not be the same cuts that I go

through but those are Cuts because if your wife 

was white you wouldn't been dealing with those

cuts okay so so I think you definitely empathize 

and I think I just think my friend number one I

want to thank you for coming on and sharing this 

story I think that's I take it back I know there's

a ton of people who black white uh Native American 

Indian uh Hispanic Uh Russian Jewish that are in

interracial interracial relationships and they 

still struggle they they have a united front but

they don't communicate together not some of them 

do right some of them I'm not gonna say everybody

but for me and my wife it was a struggle until 

until we were able to get past that I I didn't

want to have that conversation because I got to 

now educ I got to have this conversation with you

why I got to go out in the world and have the 

conversation too you know I want to come home

and just chill and you know you know we arguing 

about the grocery money okay and I got to talk

about this right I don't want to deal with that 

right but at some point it has to and look I put

this way I think as a as a you said earlier that 

you guys talk about everything finances everything

which is great I think you got to talk about this 

too and you got to and and and and and to double

a point you could cultural issues whatever but I 

think a good healthy partner um they would talk

about these things the differences what this 

person sees and what the other person doesn't

see right and it's not about well you don't get 

it or it's just more of like you said awareness

right and eventually eventually you know the 

other partner I'm just being honest I and maybe

I'm being naive but I think eventually the other 

partner will we'll see especially when you have

kids man when you have kids it changes the whole 

dynamic changes the whole dynamic right and so now

does me and my wife talk about race all the time 

no right she talk to be honest she talks about

it more than I do it's like you right we go you 

know I you know they they chose her because of you

know blah blah blah I just listen okay and I'm not 

disagreeing with her but I just listen because you

know she she now is running with the Mano so it's 

all but when when you're when your spouses can be

on the same page when it comes to something like 

this it makes life a lot better and listen I've

chatted with friends of mine who are now going 

through some hard times from a you know um divorce

um because of the issue that you brought up Brian 

is that one is uh African-American one is Hispanic

and uh one person sees this and the other person 

doesn't see it and they don't want to the the the

uh the the husband don't want to talk about it 

it and and nothing nothing can get solved that

way right so I think it's very important that at 

least you try that's what you've been trying to

do and but net net you got to do you and you got 

to let your wife your partner be them that's fair

and I I I just want to thank you for having me 

on because I do think this was actually inform

and actually I I will use the term therapeutic for 

me because I do think this I've been waiting for

15 years to have this conversation actually 

longer than 15 years I've known my wife for

about 18 years so I've been waiting for for that 

long to have a good honest conversation about

this so I I absolutely appreciate you and I just 

thank you for having me on to have if I had have

known that we could have started a black executive 

perspective 15 years ago I would matter of fact by

now we would been you know D way and I would be 

you know we'd be talking we would have invented

I mean flat out right but all jokes aside my man 

uh love you a lot I more important look this is

not easy to do especially come on a podcast and 

talk about something and so I really appreciate

you sharing we want to have you back uh talk about 

some other topics um but final thoughts that you

have you want to share with the audience my friend 

well um I think couple things number one in taking

your advice you know it doesn't mean we have to 

talk about it all the time but as as part of this

this husband and wife team when my wife's ready 

when she's able when she's willing I'm going to

be there for her to talk about it in any way shap 

or form I think that's critical important and and

to to be the listener not necessarily to like try 

and you know solve everything but just be there to

listen uh to get a better understanding because 

I do think you're right I probably do empathize

a little more than I than I realize but I want 

to be there more completely um the other thing

I I I think that's really important to me is 

this is going to sound like a weird analogy

maybe but there's a reason that TVs aren't black 

and white anymore right there's a reason that we

evolve to see things in color right movies are in 

color because they're better they're better and I

think just recognizing that there is a world out 

there that's not just black and white and that

everyone has that different experience and the 

different View and and being hyp sensitive to

it while it can be painful at times honestly it's 

just made me a better person it's definitely made

me a better husband and and I hope a much better 

father as well that is awesome my friend that is

great that's great stuff that you sharing here um 

how can a black executive perspective help you Bri

well uh Shameless self-plug um I can be found at 

b. eSource coach.com um I love talking to people

about where they are in their careers and how I 

might be able to help them if they're looking to

make a change um I love talking to people from all 

shapes forums careers any any any perspective that

they come from CU it's all about an education 

for me as well well that's awesome so so if you

guys are looking to change careers you want to 

do something different reach out to my man Brian

Stern at the email excuse me at the website he 

just announced thank you for sharing this story

I is is is is really uh you know something that 

really touched my heart and I'm pretty sure you're

going to you're going to touch a lot of other 

people's uh heart as well I hope you enjoy uh

today's episode on a black executive perspective 

podcast interracial marriage the conscious and

unconscious ways we relate to each other and the 

world around us so you heard from Brian Stern he's

been with his wife for 15 years uh grew up uh 

homogenous area all of a sudden now he's in an

interracial relationship very uh hyper sensitive 

see how things are being how his wife is being

disrespected treated just in her daily walk and 

you know loves it takes up for her but also at

the same time she does want to communicate about 

it and then obviously you know they're not the

only ones that do that so A couple quick little 

thoughts I have um you know look at the end of the

day we all grow at different time frames we don't 

know what um somebody else goes through why they

do why they don't do so nine times out a 10 if a 

person doesn't want to talk about something uh you

got to let them just be themselves right and it 

doesn't stop you from doing the things that you

feel is the right thing to do for your family um 

seeds all seeds grow at different times and um a

lot of times we're planting seeds and if they're 

in Fertile ground at some point they'll grow so we

got to recognize that number two it is important 

if you can for interracial couples to talk about

you know their racial differences when they're 

together yes you guys came together the whole

world was against you it's you versus the world 

you going to have kids you showed that you know

we could be together but there are differences 

there are issues not everybody's educated on

the same things that you know like I said my 

wife wasn't educated on everything that I've

been through um so it's important at some point 

that you guys people can sit down and have these

conversations and then N Net push come to shove 

you take care of your family and the one thing the

only way we're going to change things is we have 

to hold people accountable we can't brush stuff

under the rug like I've did for years and other 

people do and just let it go no you have to hold

them accountable you have to call it out right 

you don't have to beat nobody up you don't have

to attack anybody but you have to call it out okay 

because the more you call it out the more things

will change so that's a a very very important 

thing to do so you know what time it is it's time

for Tony's tidbit it's time for Tony's tidbit all 

right so based on what we talked about today with

Brian today's tidbit is by David M world and it 

goes a great marriage is not when a perfect couple

comes together it's when a imperfect couple learns 

to enjoy their differences okay and that's what we

spoke to Brian today about as well so again I 

hope you enjoyed I'm glad you tuned in to this

episode of a black executive perspective podcast 

please come to our website at a black executive

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Brian Stern my executive producer doublea I'm Tony

tidbit we talked about it I love you a lot and 

we're out thank you for tuning in to this episode

of Tony tidbit a black executive perspective 

and for joining in today's conversation with

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