We were so thrilled to be joined by Lara Baker, Senior Partner and Head of the Criminal Litigation Practice Group at Foster Graham Milstein and Calisher. She's a legal powerhouse with vast experience in criminal, juvenile, and Title IX litigation. Lara's credentials speak for themselves - serving on boards, accolades, and recognitions like Best Lawyers in America, 5280 Magazine's 'Top Lawyers,' and Colorado Super Lawyers.

Questions we discussed:

📱 Should we keep an eye on our kids' cell phones and how?

👧🧒 When is the right age for kids to have a cell phone?

😬 How can kids run into trouble with cell phones?

🍻 We know kids may experiment with drinking - how should we handle it?

🙈 How do we broach conversations about sex offenses with our kids?

🚓 What if law enforcement or the school contacts us about allegations involving our child? What steps should we take?

And more!!

All right.

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Welcome.

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Welcome to my podcast,

Growing Good Humans.

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My name is Laura Barr.

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I'm the owner and founder of

Emerging Educational Consulting.

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We provide one to one mentorships for

students from the beginning to the end

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of the college application process.

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my mantra is we're in the business

of raising good humans and what.

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better way to do that than providing

families with education and information.

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So today we are so lucky

to have Laura Baker here.

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She already knows that I am a huge fan.

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I've been following Laura's boot camps

and anything I can get my hands on

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that she writes or talks about in the

raising of good humans specifically

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around raising kids in the context

of a very litigious society that we

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live in and one that doesn't always

protect our kids, interestingly enough.

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Laura, will you take a second to just

introduce yourself and then we're

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just gonna dive in with questions?

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Sure.

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Hello everybody.

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So I am Laura Baker.

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I am a private practice

criminal trial lawyer.

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Over the years, Classically, criminal

defense practice has morphed into a

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juvenile defense practice, which includes

criminal allegations as well as Title

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IX cases and a variety of things.

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, I practice at Foster Graham, Milstein,

and Kalischer, and so we are busy

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all the time with cases involving

kids who've gotten in trouble.

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I'm so happy that You are here.

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I'm so sorry that you have to be so busy.

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Why are you so busy?

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Let's start with that.

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Sure.

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Well, times are different

than they used to be.

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I think when I was growing up, we

didn't see kids charged criminally.

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The way they are now, we live

in a society where social media

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has taken on a life of its own.

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Kids have cell phones.

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There's a lot more access to information

that kids didn't used to have.

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And we also have a school system that

is required in many cases to report

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instances of sexual misconduct and child

abuse and also an 9 investigations.

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So it is busy.

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We have way too many kids involved

in the legal process and parents

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who grew up as I did, not really

understanding or naive to the fact that

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your kid could get in trouble and you

really need help when that happens.

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Some people in my audience might.

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I feel like it's a little extreme, like

why is Laura Barr bringing in Laura Baker

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criminal defense lawyer, to talk about

like raising good humans to go to college.

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And I think what is, what you and

I have in common is this desire to

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really spread the news that these,

these situations aren't happening

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to like, really evil bad kids.

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This, some of this stuff, that's

not to say there aren't some

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situations that are pretty drastic.

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And I want to honor that in

all of these conversations.

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But what we're here today is

talk about just everyday, regular

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families whose kids get into what

we used to call mischief, but ends

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up being something pretty drastic.

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And there is a place on the common

app that says, have you ever.

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been suspended?

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Do you have a felony?

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You know, those are questions

that I really don't want

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students to have to or the box.

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I don't want them to have to mark.

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So let's go back to the cell phones.

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Um, I think that really is

the biggest game changer.

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And when I was raising kids

even compared till now.

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So what is your stand on

monitoring kids cell phones?

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What age is the right age

to give a kid a phone?

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And how, in your experience,

have kids gotten in trouble?

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Keep in mind, um, our audience is

going to be middle to high school.

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Okay, so that's the perfect age.

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And some people have already made a

decision to give kids a cell phone and

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some are still on the fence about it.

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Let me say this.

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cell phones, probably

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I have more cell phones that are

the vehicle to the commission

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of a crime where a juvenile is

concerned than the vehicle is.

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We spend all this time teaching our kids

how to drive and safely drive and teaching

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them, you know, who to be in the car and

how to interact with people in the car.

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And yet we have so many

cases involving a cell phone.

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It's hard for me because I can't Yeah.

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Tell parents how to parent.

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I'm conservative because I'm biased based

on the work that I do, but the best piece

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of advice I can give to parents is cell

phones are not just evidence in a criminal

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case or a way for kids to commit a crime,

but we all know the perils about the

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social emotional problems that come with

the constant pinging of a cell phone.

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So the two pieces of advice

that I give parents is.

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Don't give your kids a cell phone until

you are prepared to monitor it completely.

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And I get asked the question all the time.

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Are you kidding me?

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I need to monitor everything my 13

year old does on the cell phone.

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The answer is yes, you do because

they could be getting bullied.

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they could be being targeted.

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I've had cases where kids have been

victimized through their cell phone.

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They've received fraud alerts.

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I received a fraud alert

on my cell phone yesterday.

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Had I not known what I was doing, I would

have fallen prey to this sort of fraud

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scheme that came to me on my cell phone.

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But more importantly, kids are using

their cell phones to commit crimes,

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to bully each other, it becomes

evidence in a case where your kid

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could become a witness to the case.

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I could spend the next five

hours talking about it.

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So I think the best piece of advice, and

that was, that was number one, monitor it.

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And number two is when you think

your child has the maturity and

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judgment to separate themselves.

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from something they may receive.

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Not all kids are at the

same level of maturity.

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And I understand their social

interaction that needs to occur

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via cell phone for some kids.

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But if, if your kid is still

susceptible to influence or to

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depression or to other conditions

where your kids might get pulled in

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and you don't have control of it, it's

probably not time for a cell phone.

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You can call them on a watch.

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They can call you on their watch.

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Do you have a suggestion

of an actual device?

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Like, what would be a watch

that someone could go buy today?

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I, well, I have little kids,

so we use the gizmo watch.

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This is not an advertisement for

Verizon, but we use the gizmo watch.

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I think, you know, kids

can have an Apple watch.

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I think the key for me and the role

for, for my family when they get a

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cell phone is a cell phone doesn't have

to have smart access during the day.

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There really is no reason a kid

needs to be on TikTok or Snapchat.

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Or Instagram while they're in

school during their school day.

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And so set limits and parameters

around how they're using it.

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Believe me, it's terribly important.

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I get asked all the time, what kind

of monitoring application can you use?

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Talk to your service provider in

terms of the types of phone you have.

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My, forensic technical guy, who I rely

on, uses a program called BARC, which

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many people have now heard of, that

allows you to flag and signal certain

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words so that, you know, you can be

monitoring the nature of the discussions.

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That's great.

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I use Bark for my stepdaughters because

of that very reason and that was

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advice that you had given a while back.

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And obviously we're not

promoting any one thing, but

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sometimes it's hard for families.

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I don't like to give them advice

without saying try this because

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it's hard to navigate when

you're searching all of that.

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Let's talk about Snapchat for a second.

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One of the first things I say to families

or students when I start working with

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them is I say, You do understand that

things don't disappear on Snapchat.

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And, I want you to support me in that

because people are often shocked.

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I, I will say this, and you know,

this is my personal opinion about

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Snapchat, but Snapchat is the

bane of my existence as a lawyer.

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I think kids really believe

that Snapchat deletes itself.

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In every juvenile case I've had

that has Really gone the distance,

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or we've ended up in a courtroom.

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There's a program called Celebrate

that can pull back everything

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a kid discussed by a Snapchat.

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And that almost inevitably becomes

evidence that makes or breaks the case.

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But it's not just that.

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I mean, the purpose of Snapchat

is to hide things from people.

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I mean, otherwise your kid

would be text messaging.

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So.

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Just as a fundamental sort of

as a threshold matter, you have

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to think about why do they need

Snapchat and for what purpose.

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I will not allow my

children to have Snapchat.

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When I have conversations like this,

I'm just sometimes grateful I missed

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all this raising four kids because

I'm not sure I could have handled it.

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I mean, it's just kind

of, it is stressful.

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And I know there's a lot of

families whose kids are using chat.

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So it's, it's hard because then

you'd like, how do you take it away?

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And those are questions we

can continue to talk about.

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Let's, let's keep diving into

this hard, difficult stuff.

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I want to talk about alcohol, use

of alcohol and marijuana drugs.

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I think most of us who have been

around parenting for a long time,

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I raised four kids and they're

all in their twenties stories.

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I hear now is that everybody

was drinking back then.

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Everybody was trying pot back then.

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And so like, if everybody's doing

it, number one, is that accurate?

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What are parents supposed to do?

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I often hear parents say things like,

well, I let my kids drink in our house.

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And I'm like, good luck with that

because you might end up in jail, but

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get my back on that too that scares

the daylights out of me because

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I've had so many cases where parents

have been charged with contributing

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to the delinquency of a minor.

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Where a child has a circumstance,

everybody's drinking in the basement.

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The parents provided the alcohol

or at least closed their eyes

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to the fact that the kids...

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And suddenly you have a child who

gets injured in your home because

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they were intoxicated or a crime

is committed against the child.

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I tried a case not long ago where a

young woman was sexually assaulted

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in the home and the parents were sued

civilly in addition to criminal liability

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for having provided the alcohol.

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I understand that it's a dilemma and.

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It would be easy for me to stand here

and say, don't let your kids drink.

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But the idea that you're going to keep

your kids safe by facilitating alcohol

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usage is, is simply not the case.

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You're exposing yourself, your family,

your kids, and other people's kids.

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I mean, you can think about it in

terms of how would you feel if your

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child went to somebody else's house?

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And that other person provided them

alcohol and your child was injured

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because somebody else made a decision

to provide alcohol to your child.

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We see those cases far too often.

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You know, you have to make a

decision as a parent how you're

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going to help your kids navigate.

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Drinking.

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I happen to be raised by parents who

were very strict when it came to that.

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They always said we don't

have situational ethics.

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We don't condone you stealing

or otherwise breaking the law.

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And if you're under the age of 21.

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And you're drinking alcohol,

you're breaking the law, so

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we can't tell you that's okay.

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I understand the other side of it.

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Parents are concerned kids are

going to drink, and if we give them

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a hard line, they're not going to

talk to us about it, and they're

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not going to come to us about it.

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I can't weigh into some of those parenting

decisions, but we don't have very

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many criminal cases that don't involve

alcohol, and kids just are not ready.

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To manage and navigate, whether it's

social media and alcohol, bullying, a

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vehicle, and most predominantly sexual

relationships, when they've been drinking.

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And the combination of those two

things is a recipe for disaster.

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At least in where I'm concerned, a big,

busy, full time practice with seven

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lawyers who full time do this work.

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So.

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That's my cautionary note

and you're in Denver right?

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So it's not like this is just in

the city that we're talking about.

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So imagine we serve families

all over the country.

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So it's crazy how much it makes my

heart stop and just, these ideas

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of like, what can we do to support?

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And your advice is so valuable.

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I want to talk for a second about, I know

that often law enforcement gets involved

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sometimes before parents even know.

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Is there advice whether a student, say,

is at school and law enforcement come,

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like, what are the rules around that?

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Or say they're at a party

and law enforcement comes, or

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they're at a park drinking.

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Like, is it best, this

is going to sound...

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Silly, but is it best

for them to drop and run?

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Is it best for them to stay?

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Is it best for them to be

polite to the police officer?

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Should they call their parents?

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Should they talk?

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Like what's the, what's

the 4 1 1 or whatever yeah.

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So the first piece of advice I would

give parents is to empower your kids to

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understand their constitutional rights.

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What that means is you have a

constitutional right to remain

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silent and to ask for a lawyer.

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So if your kids are out, they're

not in your home, they're in a

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park, they're at the mall, they're

at a party, they do have a right to

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remain silent, and that's important.

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It's not to counsel your kids to be snarky

or to pick a fight with a police officer

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on the street or to be obstructive.

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The last thing you want is your

kid getting into an argument with

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a police officer on the street.

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Their job is hard.

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The last thing they want to be doing

is dealing with a snarky teenager.

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But, they can be taught how to be strong

enough and empowered to ask for a lawyer.

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Sometimes kids want to

ask for their parents.

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Those aren't the magic words.

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The magic words are, I would

like to speak to a lawyer.

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Thank you so much for your contact.

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Now, I will tell you in a school setting,

the advice is slightly different.

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So often we see kids who have

marijuana in their car at school or

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get in trouble because they posted

something on social media and now

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they're being contacted by the school.

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The advice there is slightly different.

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Schools have an obligation to protect.

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the campus and the student body.

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And so they may bring your child

in without your knowledge and want

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to start talking to your child.

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At that point, your kid, when the hair is

on the back of his or her neck, stand up.

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They need to be empowered to say,

you know, I'd like to talk to my

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parents before I talk with you.

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I want to listen to what you're telling

me, but I'm not prepared to give you any

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statement until I talk to my parents.

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Just remember schools

have school officers.

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And so sometimes that questioning

Even though it should be advised and

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you should have some sense that your

kids are giving a statement, it is

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often used by law enforcement in the

prosecution of a criminal case when

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it's gathered inside the school.

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So is my advice on that topic, don't be,

you don't have to be a jerk about it.

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I love that.

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And you gave us love and a really great

tip on how to respond in a way that is

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teach your kid to respond with grace and

to simply say, I need my parents with me.

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Or I'd like to talk to my parents,

use my right to not speak and to have

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a lawyer, and then I'm happy to speak

with you in a nice, respectful way.

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let's dig into sexual

behavior accusations.

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What are you seeing today and

what do you think would be

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helpful for our families to know?

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Oh, gosh, how much time do we have?

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It has taken over my practice in

terms of dealing with sex offenses.

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So I'll start first with sexting, which

has been so extraordinary in the last

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decade in terms of how much time and not.

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Not just criminal activity,

but victimization comes

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as a result of sexting.

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I had a principal in in the Denver public

school system say to me he estimates

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that 80 to 90 percent of kids in high

school age kids between 9th and 12th

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grade have sent received or viewed.

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An inappropriate sex message, which

means it's a nude image of a child.

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We have to name that that's child

pornography, and it includes the showing

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of private parts without boring everybody

with the recitation of the statute.

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And those are being used, not just.

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Um, voluntarily between kids, but

also used to bully kids in Colorado,

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and I'm only licensed in Colorado.

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So I'm talking just about Colorado

law, although I know that other

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states have similar circumstances,

if you're convicted of a sex offense.

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You are required to register as a

sex offender, and there are a whole

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host of things that come with that.

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So, even just the sending, the

distribution of a message like that could

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result in a conviction as a sex offender.

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It seems extraordinary because these

kids are not generally predatory.

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Usually, it's exploratory in

some way, but it's almost always

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victimizing another child.

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When you are.

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Taking it or sending it, and in Colorado,

it's a strict liability offense.

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There's no legal justification to be in

possession of any sort of explicit image.

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As we talk about bigger sex offenses,

and that tends to be where I spend the

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bulk of the focus of my practice , we

have kids accusing one another of sexual

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assault, which is also the term we know

is Rape and consent is really gray.

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When you look at the statute,

the legal statute in Colorado

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around what does consent mean?

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Consent is based on act or

attitude that appears to be in

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cooperation with the person who's

initiating the sexual activity.

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So, when you think about how

those scenarios come up in our

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practice, almost all we have 1 kid.

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who thinks, well, the other person

was engaged, they were kissing me,

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they didn't say no, they were, they

seemed to be welcoming the conduct.

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And the other person, for whatever

reason, may describe themselves as being

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scared or frozen or consenting only to

part of the act, not all of the act.

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And so once two kids, particularly where

alcohol is on board, and they They can't

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register consent because they're impaired

by alcohol or because they're new to sex

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and they don't understand the signals and

signs or they think, well, he or she came

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on to me and they're interested in me

and we've exchanged a million snapchats.

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So we're good to go.

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It is a recipe for disaster.

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And it's such a gray area.

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I think now.

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In my opinion, where the law is concerned,

we just have way too many kids that

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don't even understand what consent means.

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And we have way too many kids now that

are influenced by what they hear on

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social media about what sex assault.

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is sex assault is not something

that you look back and regret.

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It's not something that you wish you

wouldn't have done if you had been sober.

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It's not something that maybe

just hurt or felt uncomfortable

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or something you want to hide.

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And so I've had a number of cases

where people have come to me and said,

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you know, six months ago, my daughter

wouldn't have had sex with that guy.

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If she knew what a bad guy that

he was, that's not sex assault.

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so there's just a lot of confusion

for kids around sex offenses, but the

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consequences can be extraordinary.

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I know I could talk forever

about that, Laura, but I don't

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want to drone on unless there's.

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I mean, I think, we could build on

that a little bit as far as, um, I

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like how you said, like a parent called

me, where do you or a lawyer, where

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does a lawyer come in and how can

they be helpful in situations and what

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situations are you the most helpful in?

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Oh, that's a great question.

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So.

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I think there's a tendency by

parents to believe they can

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handle these things themselves.

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And so you want to just explain away,

look, it's just a misunderstanding.

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But what happens is, we see sex offenses

reported in a lot of different ways.

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Often it comes through safe to tell.

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At school, so one kid tells another kid,

hey, I think I was sexually assaulted

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and that gets reported to the school.

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The school then must make a

mandatory report, but sometimes

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the parents don't know that.

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Right?

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So you get a call from the school or you

get a call from another parent saying,

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hey, I'm hearing this is going on.

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You can't presume.

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That you know exactly what's happening,

or that you can explain it away by

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saying, well, he or she came on to my kid.

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This was an equal, uh, sort of opportunity

for both of them, because almost always

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there is somebody on the other side

of this equation who is ahead of you

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in the process, who has started the

investigation and is likely to presume.

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Lack of consent based on the victim's

story and so my advice is don't wait

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to call a lawyer, whether it's me or

anybody else who does this work, call

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at the first sign of an allegation,

because the minute you walk in

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and start staying to the school.

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No, no, that's not how it happened.

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Or you start saying

that to law enforcement.

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Those statements become part of

a case in a way that could really

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hurt you because you don't really

know yet what the allegations.

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So I'd say the first thing to do before

you call the parents of the other

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kid or anything else, call a lawyer.

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It reminds me of something we, um,

interviewed, I did a podcast with

376

Hannah Stotland and she is a lawyer

in Boston, educational consultant.

377

And one of the advice, one of

the tips that she said is build

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relationships with your kids.

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So if they're in trouble,

they come to you first.

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That it is so helpful when students

don't hide from their parents because

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just like you said all these things

happened and then suddenly parents

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get involved and they're way behind

the game because the students

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were afraid of getting in trouble.

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And I remember just raising my teens.

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I used to say, and actually

my mom did this for me.

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This is just how I learned about it.

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She said, no matter what I love you.

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And no matter what trouble you're in.

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or whatever happens, please call me first.

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I will always pick you up.

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And so it's kind of the

metaphorical, like I have your back.

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I love you.

393

And knowing that that's something and

just saying it, saying that, like,

394

and what I'm so curious about is how

our schools, parents, doctors, Like,

395

how are we getting this information

to parents on how to parent in a

396

way that builds that kind of trust?

397

And I think that also includes being able

to have difficult conversations about

398

sex and consent and alcohol and really

drawing a line in the sand around family

399

values and, And I feel like there's

just still so much information out there

400

that it's hard for parents to know what

to do and how to do it, how to do it.

401

Yeah, I agree with you.

402

And you know what, Laura, you

may see this as much as I do.

403

I worry more about our kids who

go to college, who now at 18

404

years old think they can handle

everything that comes to them.

405

You know, when you have

a kid inside your home.

406

You have a better ability

to monitor their messages.

407

You set them down in the

kitchen table at night.

408

I see way too many kids who

come to me at 18, 19 years old.

409

And now, by the way, they're they're

considered adults in the judicial

410

system, and they're trying to handle

an allegation at the university.

411

That's going to.

412

initiate a huge Title IX process, as well

as prospectively a criminal process, and

413

they're going to be treated like an adult.

414

So you have to empower your

kids exactly as you're saying,

415

I will always come help you.

416

But if I don't know the answer,

I'm going to find somebody who

417

can help us with the answer.

418

Right.

419

I know in our practice, when I do my

parent intake, I go through a checklist.

420

And then when when we say goodbye to our

students, we are like, do, you know, the

421

law title 9, do, you know, what happened?

422

Do you know what to do?

423

And we're really try to talk them through,

understanding what their rights are,

424

because unfortunately, You know, we

always say your kids gonna get to college.

425

Our goal is to have them stay there.

426

And these are the things that if we're

not having these conversations, there

427

are more and more kids not staying there.

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And they're good people, right?

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And in confusing circumstances in

my world, it often does involve

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alcohol, which is why having

these kinds of conversations

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and knowing where to turn to.

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What I'm going to do when we post this

podcast is I'm going to make sure We

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put any of our resources that we have.

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And Laura, if you have any that

you use, you can send them and

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I can post them to the summary.

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we only have 30 minutes, which I told

you at the start, I'm like, this is

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going to be rough because I could

talk to you about this for hours

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because I care so much about it.

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Is there anything else you feel like

you have to say that would help?

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Our parents in the next 2 minutes, well,

I will say to your last point that the

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reason we started doing the boot camp that

we do in our office and I started speaking

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to schools was for exactly this reason

it's hard to encapsulate in 30 minutes.

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All that a parent should know about

the perils of raising kids now, but

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there are resources available to you

through you, through, through our

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boot camp and through other places

that I'm very happy to consolidate.

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The thing I would say to parents

is don't presume that you know

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how to handle it yourself.

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Just ask for help before you

walk your kid into a circumstance

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that feels treacherous.

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They have constitutional rights.

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And you as their parent need to

help them protect those rights.

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I love that.

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. I think one of the biggest mistakes that

I've seen with parents is they think their

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children are too sweet or too kind or

raised in such a good family that their

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children would never do such a thing.

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And I just want to say,

I mean, that was me.

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I have and raised four kids.

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They're all in their twenties, but

I was surprised over and over again,

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how not great my kids could behave.

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They were still good.

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humans, but they did

things that weren't okay.

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And it surprised me.

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And I just , if you are one of those

parents, just do yourself a favor

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and pick up the cell phone tonight

when your child is in bed and take

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a look at what's going on and, and

see if you still feel the same way.

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You know what I would say on that

point, it's the really good kids.

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I worry about the most.

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It's the street smart kids who

know how to duck and dodge.

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It's the really sweet, trusting kids who

often find themselves in these messes

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because they don't believe it can happen

to them or they couldn't see it coming.

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So yes, we're all raising wonderful kids.

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But they're going to find trouble at work.

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Laura, thank you so much for everything.

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This has been so valuable, so wonderful.

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And, I can't wait to put

this out to the world.

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Thank you for having me.

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Thank you.

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See you later.

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Bye.