Areli Barrera Grodski from Little Waves Coffee

Artwork for podcast Beans Without Boundaries

Episode 17 • 21st December 2023 • Beans Without Boundaries • Elena Mahmood

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, how are you?

Elena: Good. It's been a long time coming for this one. Yes, it I know that we were trying to schedule a while out in advance and now we're here.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yes. Uh, on my calendar and then the trips happened.

Elena: Yeah, I can't wait to dive into that.

Areli barrela went to a roasters guild retreat this month

Elena: It go ahead and take a second to introduce yourself, if you don't mind.

Areli Barrera Grodski: So yes. Hello. My name is Areli or Areli Barrera Grodski. Um, and I am the co owner, green coffee buyer, and a roaster at, uh, Little Ways Coffee Roasters in Durham, North Carolina. Woo.

Elena: Welcome to the um, me, you and I had met through last year's roasters guild retreat.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yes.

Elena: How was your experience?

Areli Barrera Grodski: It was good. Um, it was my second one. Um, and it was my first time going with someone from the team. Um, I went with Mari Gutterman, who's now our head rooster and director of Roasting and quality. Um, yeah, it's interesting. I feel like the rooster retreat is kind of like it can feel intimidating, I think, sometimes. Um, and I feel like the roasting tent is meant for you to kind of explore, but I also feel like it's kind of scary because it's like, how much do you want to reveal that you don't know about something?

Elena: That's exactly how I kind of felt wandering the roasting tents.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Um, kind of having that conversation with my husband and partner. But just in terms of, uh, um, I'm mostly over the, um, we have in Durham, we have a rooster and three cafes and he kind of looks oversees the cafes with our amazing management team. But in the like, we're a predominantly woman of color roastery.

Elena: That's so cool.

Areli Barrera Grodski: It feels really cool. Um, and it's also something that I always remind myself how unique that is right now.

Elena: I was going to say for sure.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Hopefully that changes but um, yeah, I feel like Val is maybe the tallest person in here, but otherwise we're all like five, three or less. Um, yeah, it's just, it's interesting to think about, um, working in that environment is really different. And then you go to a risk guild retreat and then you're like, how do you, uh, adjust to the different dynamics of existing in spaces that aren't predominantly women?

Elena: Yeah, I was going to say I feel like in general, a lot of the women that were there probably had the same feeling, especially because I didn't go this year because one, I can't afford those. Um, I won the Dietrich scholarship last year, so that's why I went. Um, but I remember being in that tent and it feeling so kind of like not communal, you know what I mean? It just feels like you have a really hard time interrupting or joining in or some people will hog the machines and it's just like not inviting of an atmosphere. Um, and I found myself many of times just sticking towards the corner and not really putting myself in there, uh, which I'm kind of sad about. I probably could have been a little bit more pushing myself, but I didn't feel comfortable kind of like, being around a lot of the male dominant, uh, personalities that had a lot of those conversations with the reps for the roasters.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. It makes me sad to think about that, too, just because I feel like it's really all in our heads. It's not all in our heads, but I think for the most part, we overthink it way more than they do.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I think for sure it's doing us more of a disservice than them. Uh, I feel like it almost feels like you have to go even more prepared than other people.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: And again, that's like a self inflicting thing that we put on ourselves.

Elena: I will say, too, sorry, go ahead.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh, no. Just to kind of prove ourselves and kind of just send that message that we belong there just as much as anyone else is there. Um, but yeah, it was really nice to connect with all the other folks at the she's, the Rooster meeting.

Elena: Yeah. I loved everybody that I met there. I loved how the dynamic kind of shifted immediately when all of us were in the same space. Um, and it kind of, like, inspired me to continue on going and roasting and doing what I'm doing, because, uh, it gets a little bit harder when you're away from that kind of support to continue on in that part of the industry, at least for me.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. No, for sure. Yeah. It's almost like your shoulder strap and your ability to ask questions and be curious all over again is allowed. You get this pathway of, like, uh, now I can actually be curious and ask questions about how, uh, does this machine work? I don't know. It's interesting. I think some people have a good knack of allowing that, uh, space, but not everyone does. And I think it's just one of those things that you learn to navigate, but yeah, it's just different when you're around, um, your peers, where you feel seen and you feel like your shoulders drop and you can breathe.

Elena: Yeah. I had only been roasting for a couple of months at that point.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh, wow.

Elena: So when I got into that tent, and when I saw everybody there, it was really intimidating. And it was even more so intimidating because it seemed like people were going there reoccurringly years after year. So I remember the beginning social, right? Like, as soon as you get there, they had the drinks out. I just remember not talking to anybody, and then eventually I talked to, um, a few other people, and I just remember I'm like, man, m. I didn't expect it to be like this.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I think over the days, though, you start to kind of like, I don't know, the doors start to open for those conversations. Yeah, I feel like a lot of the people in the coffee industry are super shy, like introverted people. Um, I feel like it's rare to find an extroverted coffee person, but I don't know, am I wrong?

Elena: I've met a lot of, uh, men that don't have a hard time doing that, actually.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I don't know that they're extroverted, though. True.

Elena: I feel like everybody's naturally, like, a huge nerd in the coffee industry that have some part of it that they keep to themselves.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, I would say that overall, though, my experience, um, at the retreat was a pretty positive one. I really enjoyed, um, the class where we tasted for phenol and for defects and that was, um I think it's, uh, Camila, right?

Elena: Are you talking about Camila? Calife?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Camila. Okay, good.

Elena: Yeah, she came on the show.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh good.

Elena: She was a fucking great episode, too.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I loved talking to her. She's so fascinating and yeah, I love following her journey. Mhm. Um, yeah, I felt like that class really stuck with me, that one. And then there was Profiling for Espresso Solubility, um, which was like a really interesting one. Um, yeah, I don't know, I tried to challenge myself this year or that year to get out of my shell a little bit more, but still, it is hard, especially in the wristing tent, to just go and try something, mhm, kind of blindly without really knowing how a machine works. It just feels out of control and I don't like the feeling.

Elena: I would have definitely done it different if I had a second wave, uh, of going back.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, I think that having the she's, the Rister meet up at that thing I think really helped, um, kind of put everyone at ease in a way.

Elena: It felt more like familial, in a sense. Eventually, once we all got comfortable with each other, it just felt like a good, comfy group of women just like, talking about stuff.

d was in Atlanta, Georgia, in: 2018

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, I think had we done that at the very beginning, it probably would have been a better experience for people just to kind of break that barrier of like, uh, that imposter syndrome or also just like, how do you navigate this space while taking up space and feeling certain in yourself. Um, but yeah, I think overall, I feel like both my experiences the first Roosters guild that I went to, I met a lot of people from Mexico I was super excited about. Um, and it was like, in Atlanta, so I live in North Carolina, so I drove down to it. Mhm. Um, so it was a little bit know, it was just like the cost of the thing, which is still very expensive. But I think I had a similar experience, though, in the roasting tent. Um, but yeah, I think that's just one of those things where it's like learning how to overcome. Um, but the classes and everything. I feel like the second time around, I got more out of it because I think also I went in 2019, I think is when it was, um, and then again when I met you, mhm, um, but yeah, I think both me and Mari Gunman kind of got a lot out of Camila's class. Um, I think Mari Gunman also felt a little affirmed in some of her team things, but she also was kind of like, realizing, uh, some of the things that, um, we don't see on a day to day basis here, because we are a predominantly woman forward company. So it's just interesting to hear her. And it's also interesting when we as a team have gone to expo and it's like, oh, wow, we really are a unique team.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Because I think we just feel so accustomed to it on a day to day basis.

What got you started in coffee? Um, what's your origin story

Elena: But anywho, what got you started in coffee? Um, what's your origin story? Did you want to do coffee?

lly a coffee shop. And around: 2004

Leon and his partner started Little Waves Cafe right after they got married

Elena: So from that perspective, at what point were you like, well, I'm going to start investing in this now?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Honestly, um, it was like a decision that me and my partner made, right when we got married. We were like, let's start our own business. Um, so we kind of started just dreaming it and we wrote our business plan and we had no money and we were just like, let's just see what happens and just keep pushing forward. Even though we at this point, it's like, what do we have to lose? We literally have nothing. So we just kept pushing forward. And um, Leon has a little bit of a film background where he helped make things out of nothing. Yeah. So with his help and his experience in that and then me being like an immigrant kid and watching my dad open up shops, I feel like we had a little bit of that gusto to just kind of keep pushing forward and definitely a lot of help from the community and putting ourselves out there. And, um, we started on a bike, um, and the bike kind of helped us really, um, because we moved from Western Carolina to Durham, um, which is kind of like a four and a half, five hour drive. Um, and yeah, we moved here and I had graduated from UNC, so that I kind of knew the area. And Leon had worked in Durham, uh, for a few months at one point with his friend David, who's an artist. And David is actually the person who kind of made us not made us, but wrote us this beautiful email basically saying why he thought Durham would be the perfect place for us to open our, um yeah, he wasn't wrong.

Elena: Yeah. I think at this point you're doing pretty well for.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um I don't, I don't know that our business would thrive in any other setting the way that it has here.

Elena: I will say you've got me curious now uh yeah. About the cafe experience. You saying that you don't think it would have done well anywhere else?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, I just think that our approach to business is a very socially minded perspective and it takes customers who are willing to be a part of that journey with you. Um, in Cherokee, like, for instance, uh, it took Leon and his partner at least seven years to feel like a current and an inkling of trust from the community. It's a little bit different of a scenario because it's a native land and that already comes with its own traumas and history. And M leon is from New York and a very foreign person. Um, so yeah, I feel know Durham is a very special place. Um and the community here is very, uh there are other communities in the nation that I feel like are similar. But, yeah, I think people really do care about supporting local and supporting local businesses that actually care and give back and are about livable wages and, um, just thinking about putting intention into every single decision, I guess, which not every, because sometimes that also ends up costing more money. Right? I think that's part of it is like how do you balance doing business in that way, having a community that supports doing business in that way and also give back to the community in ways that is equitable um, which sounds nice but it's really hard.

Elena: Oh yeah, I'd imagine. Where did you get the name little waves.

Areli Barrera Grodski: That came, uh, through mine and leon's love story.

Elena: You can't see me, but I'm excited to hear it.

Areli Barrera Grodski: So in: 2010

Elena: That is so cute.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, but it is definitely something that we imbue in our decision making and how we create relationships with our sourcing partners. And even in hiring again, all of those things are like, when you're trying to do it intentionally, um, it takes more time and energy. And sometimes it takes, uh, I guess more dedication to training. Right. And so you can't easily just hire somebody and expect them to move into that role. It takes us longer to get out of that role as owners. So I like it, but it's also like, work life balance is off balance. But we're working on it. We're working on it. But I feel like I think it's also like, when I look around myself and around the roastery, I'm like, um, I'm fucking glad we did it this way.

Elena: Yeah. It has more meaning. There substance, and it's like you're staying true to yourself versus, um, easily. Kind of like going full capitalist mindset.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. I mean, it's nice to hire professionals within our industry, but it's also like, they have to fit our culture. Not just fit, but be a good addition to it and lead in a way that is mindful of the fact that we are predominantly women of color right. Which can also be hard sometimes to find that perfect fit. So it's also nice to hire from within and to train people to get to that level. Mhm. But like I said, that takes a longer time to get me out of the role of doing both jobs.

Elena: Yeah, that makes sense.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah.

Camilla took two origin trips to Brazil this year

Elena: So how were your two trips you took? Where has that left you off coming back? And how do you feel like it's kind of, like, helped bring you back?

Areli Barrera Grodski: The, um, two trips I took were phenomenal. I, um, went to Brazil with, uh, Phyllis Johnson, who is maybe like one of two black women importers in the US. Um, possibly. Yeah, I'll stick to the US. Because that's what I know. Um, but, um, I'm really glad that I did this origin trip with her. Um, it was like, her and Giciani Katrim, who helped start the IWCA in Brazil. Um, and then Miriam, who I purchased coffee from in Brazil through Phyllis. Um, but the three of them, they're like, amazing go getters that are going to make things happen and make things happen in a beautiful and equitable and mindful way. Um, and so the trip was kind of focused on, um, meeting partners and potential new partners, um, in Brazil specifically, who are interested in being a part of the Black Brazilian producer program, um, that Miriam and Phyllis are working on. Um, so I get two coffees from Phyllis, currently from BD Imports. Um, Miriam's coffee is one of them from Fajenda cachoira. And then, um from the familia pesoto, um from Sito Santo Antonio. Both are within a similar area in, um, Brazil. Um, our trip focused on going to Matase Minas, and the producers from Antonio, like, came with us on this trip. So it was also their first time visiting this area. And they got to meet some of the producers there. Um, and just got to share knowledge of practices and the way that their farms are set up. So we got to experience that as buyers, but also got to meet the people that we buy our coffee from, got to meet new people, got to experience Brazil's universities, um, that focus resources and time and forces, um, into coffee and new coffee plants to think about climate change and resistance to all the things. And, um, Katiwa was like, one of the varieties that kept coming up on our trip. I'm sorry, my nose is really stuffy.

Elena: No, you're fine.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, so, yeah, it was interesting because I recently just became acute grader certified. Um, and it was like an arduous testing. Like I had that happened back in April and then I've been cupping here and then cupping in Brazil in front of producers was like a completely different experience.

Elena: What was it like?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, I would say that my scoring definitely went a lot higher up.

Elena: Really.

Areli Barrera Grodski: It was just like, I mean, like, I want to give good feedback, but, uh, at the same time, I'm in their territory. I want to be fair, but I also am also mindful that what kind of work it takes to get this coffee to this table. And I want to give good feedback, but at the same time, I want you to get money that is worth for this labor. Um, it was just an interesting experience to kind of get a little bit it felt a little bit like the rug was kind of like, ygged from underneath my feet without really realizing that that was going to happen for myself. It was something that happened to me for me. Nobody forced me to do that. It was just like my own reaction to it. After a few times of cupping, I started to recalibrate myself. But it was interesting to, uh, think about it from that perspective. And um, just thinking about it from I understand Calibrating with Q and Calibrating globally, but also, how do you be a good guest as well?

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, and how do you have honest conversations about I mean, some of the producers that were on the cupping table I knew, and some of them I didn't know. And I'm sure they wanted real feedback, so I wanted to give them real feedback. And it's like, just kind of focusing on the positive attributes of the coffee. I feel like sometimes that also gives enough feedback when there's a lacking of something. You know what I mean?

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, and then just, like, scoring things. But I don't know, it just kind of reminded me too, that scores are.

Elena: Um no, it's really interesting because, uh, me and Camilla have talked a lot about this idea of grading in general. I kind of honestly agree with her at this point about how it's kind of like bullshit. Really?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. I feel like it's a metric. It's a metric that you can use to calibrate it's a metric that you can use to see if something is wrong or different, I guess. Um, but I personally feel like producers should still be getting paid at least a profitable amount for their profit. And it's like if something is scoring a lot higher, then they should get rewarded for that. But also, I feel like if something's scoring in 80 by the way, I didn't score anything in 80.

Rachel went to Brazil to taste coffees from local black producers

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, in Brazil. I tasted a lot of really beautiful coffees in Brazil. So much so that I was like, where have all these coffees been?

Elena: Right?

Areli Barrera Grodski: I feel like we get so accustomed to a certain flavor profile from Brazil. Mhm, but it was really a, uh, really beautiful experience to be in Brazil and taste all these coffees from all these women and specifically black women in Brazil. And, um, black producers. And just to hear their stories and like, their origin stories and how they got into like, you know, growing coffee and their, their freaking farms were all like these, like, paradise cities. I was just like, oh my God, you live here. How lucky. Um, yeah, I didn't want to go home. I was just like, please adopt me. It felt like home. I was like, I feel like I'm back in Mexico, in my dad's hometown. I don't know, there was just a lot that felt really nice and just really homelike. Mhm. Um, and just connecting with everyone and hearing the realities of the day to day. These people are really talented, really well skilled. And I was just kind of, um, asking them, how can we be better partners in the future? What things besides just buying your coffee time and time again? What do you all need? How can we keep offering our resources and vice versa? I'm sure our team would love to meet you all and know more about cost farming. Um, I think for me, I was really hesitant at the very beginning of my sourcing career to go to Origin, um, because I wanted to learn more about my role in that. And I don't know, it felt OD. I kept seeing pictures that felt like photo ops and it just felt very disingenuous. And I wanted to create at least a track record in a way, like a relationship. I'm here and I'm purchasing from you year after year and then showing up to kind of affirm that.

Elena: What was the answer they gave you?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, so some of them, which is really cool, they're a lot younger, and they started, um, a youth program in a way. Um, and some of them were like, we would love to learn more barista skills. I was like, cool, let's do a zoom when I get back. Um, which I need to follow up on. Uh, but we'll have our baristas chat with you all and we can have, I don't know, just an exchange of information. Um, we could also I don't know, I think that's really cool because I'm very invested in the youth wanting to be invested in growing coffee, um, as we all should. Um, yeah, I think it kind of threw them m off. Like what?

Elena: Like that you were so willing?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Or just even that question, what are you talking about? Buy our coffee? I'm like, yeah, but what goes beyond that? This is a relationship for me. The way I kind of see it is we're creating kind of local farmers market vibes, um, because you get to know the people that you're working with, and you don't need to necessarily know the ins and outs of their lives, but it's kind of nice to be able to support them beyond just coffee.

Elena: So how did you source when you weren't mass producing coffee, did that not change the relationship on how frequent you were purchasing from them?

Areli Barrera Grodski: And I mean, just in general, we're not huge. I would say that we're still a micro rister. Um, we're kind of teetering the line, but I'd say we're a medium sized register. Um, and so for me, it's more of like kind of doubling down and being able to purchase more. That's our whole goal is if we grow as a company, then everyone kind of rises with us. We have the ability to purchase more coffee this year because we have where to put it. Um, but the thing is, these producers are also small scale and so I don't always have that capacity. I sometimes just get three bags from the Rachel family or if I'm lucky, I'll get 20 bags from Vajenda Kachuira. Um, so it's one of those things where it's just kind of like which is cool though, because that also means that other people are purchasing their coffees and excited about it. So I'm not mad about it, as long as they're getting paid what it's worth, like a valuable price that is helping them create that livelihood within coffee.

We visited four farms in Brazil and purchased ten bags of coffees

Elena: Mhm, how did the second trip go? So was that the first trip or was that a combination of the two?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, that was the first trip. We visited like, four farms or so in Brazil. Um, and one thing that did come out of that that was really valuable as well was learning that the purchase of ten bags from one farm allowed them to buy this machine that helps them sort out the floaters and the sinkers. To me, I felt like that machine would have cost a lot more, but the fact that it was ten bags, I was like, that's very. Doable for small roasters. That's a data point that is super valuable to feel like if I purchase ten bags, this can have a huge impact on this producer's life or their ability to keep moving forward and keep pushing their quality program. Um, which I feel like sometimes as smaller roasters, it feels like we're not really making a difference because we're purchasing, like, five bags or whatever. Um, so I feel like I went away feeling very affirmed that even the purchase of those ten bags at the price of them making a profit that is still, like, a reasonable price for a rooster, um, does make a huge impact. So it's like, if you're doing that year after year, I don't know, I think for me, that's where I want to be spending my money. Right. Those are the coffees I want to be bringing in. Those are the relationships I want to invest in. Um, and all of these coffees are phenomenal. And we're also getting good feedback from our customers who are enjoying these coffees.

Elena: So it's a win win.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Exactly.

Sourcing coffee from Brazil to Colombia was an interesting experience

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, and then, um, I went to Columbia. I met up with Leon there. Um, in Colombia. We met up with our producing partner, um, Edwin Norenia, who, um, goes by El Alchemista.

Elena: The Alchemist?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Um, it's the name that his dad gave him. He's been producing coffee since he was 14 years old.

Elena: Wow.

m, but he's been, I think, in: 2017

Elena: It's like just straight incline.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Really?

Elena: How do they do it? Do they just build up the ability.

Areli Barrera Grodski: To I think that they have little hooks that they hook onto the trees that are a little bit more mature. I don't know. It is crazy. It's just like, again, a reminder of how hard it is for the seed to crop or the seed to uh like I ended up sneaking a quick little detour on my way to Colombia, to Panama, and I went to the Panama Canal just to close in that supply stream. It was pretty cool. Um, yeah. Sourcing coffee. I feel like it's an ongoing learning experience of how to show up, how to move coffees. I think last year it was with all of the delays in freight and all of the delays, I think pretty much almost every rooster that I've talked to bought extra coffee. And so it's like this year, it's kind of learning how to, I don't know, create. I think it's learning the art of creating a menu that you are excited about. And, um, Leon tries to talk about it from a perspective of, um, know, DJing your menu a little bit. Like, when are you going to release these? It's like it's super hard to know that you're going to actually get it on this date because reality of life. Um, but I think it's hard for me to visualize that in that way. I just know we get these coffees around this time and this coffee around this time. But creating a menu with some showstoppers and then also defining what a showstopper is for you as a business because.

Elena: Everyone'S going to have a different opinion on that.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh, 100%.

Do you have a big crew that do cup together and have a lot of evaluations

Elena: Do you have a big crew that do cup together and have a lot of evaluations together?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, we don't have a big crew right now, but we have slowly since the Pandemic, we just started launching our pro development sessions again.

Elena: Mhm.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, but right now it's mostly just me and Mari Carmen and um, Leon joins us from time to time. Um, and sometimes our wholesale director will join us as well. Um, but our team is pretty small. We're like five people, um, in the roastery and then like, 35 of us in the cafes.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, but yeah, I feel like when we do want that feedback though, we do send coffees out to the shops and we have this feedback loop a little bit with the team.

Elena: That's cool though, because I don't know how much of the baristas are knowledgeable on cupping, but having more of, like, a blind opinion on a coffee, too, will probably speak a lot more and on a consumer level.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. And sometimes you also have to kind of decipher that feedback sometimes to kind of correlate it to how does really apply to a roast profile?

Elena: Yes. I feel hardcore because I woke up mostly alone because I'm a one man show at the place I work at. So I do all of our sourcing, all of our roasting profiling, um, packaging and fulfilling and barista.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh, wow.

Elena: So the owner, um, is not as well versed in cupping. So I'll have all of these ideas and thoughts, and then he'll just be like, yeah, I'm getting something. But, um, um, I don't know how to describe it. And I'm just, like, yanking, yanking, trying to navigate these conversations. And I'm just like, woo, this is difficult.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, do you all do, like, public cuppings and stuff?

Elena: We used to. A lot. A lot's happened with where I worked, um, last year versus what it used to be before I started working. So there's been a lot of transition from the place that I've worked, not even just on a larger scale of, like, we had a retail store in a really public space, and we were doing really well and had a really good production team. Um, to when the pandemic hit, we kind of closed the shop. And then we were just doing wholesale and ecommerce. And that went from a whole team to one other person. So, um, since then, it kind of, like, changed management. The person who was originally leading the operations in the roastery also moved to a new place. And I kind of got grandfathered into this role after only roasting for, like, maybe six months. So it was a lot trying to learn. I kind of use this podcast as a way to learn. Uh, it's awesome, but it's hard to navigate this world with no mentors, especially because I talk to so many amazing people like yourself or other people that I've met along the way, that I feel like, well, they're doing this job, right? They're definitely doing this job, uh, with good ethics and morals. And I just feel like I stepped into a role where I never know what I'm doing.

Areli Barrera Grodski: You're flailing like the little yeah, I'm.

Elena: The noodle arm, blow up thing outside of a car dealership.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I love that noodle arm, blow up dealership doll. I feel like sometimes that is life in a nutshell right there.

Elena: Um, yeah, except sometimes I never inflate again and I'm just on the ground.

Areli Barrera Grodski: That's also true. Um, interesting. Well, first of all, I'm always happy to if you want to send me coffee, I'm happy to cup it and send you feedback. Um, and vice versa, if you don't mind.

Elena: I love being able to make connections and learn more about roasting in general, um, because I've kind of had to learn by constant levels of application. I'm, at this point, very familiar with my roasting machine, but if you throw me on, like, a loring, like the one behind you, I'm like, I have no idea.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah.

Elena: Um, but yeah, I will say I don't really talk enough about where I work and what I do because it's a little bit ambiguous and my mental space with it isn't always the best. But, um, once I started this journey of roasting and getting into this part of the industry because I was a barista for like five, six years before that, um, the person who I was mentoring under actually is the head roaster of the person at Barista parlor in Nashville. He, um, kind of showed me a lot of different things, and I had an opportunity to learn a lot about origin and just learn about coffee in general. And then when I went to the retreat, I kept seeing these signs and then I met, like, amazing women there. But I came back with this idea that I'm like, if I ever had my own shop, because I feel like every roaster at this point kind of goes through that they have this, like, well, if I had my own shop.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um.

Elena: I'd try my best to source women owned or women produced.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah.

Elena: And I kind of pushed that incentive onto the new management. Uh, and then it took a while to get there. Um, but now that's what we're doing. Our newest coffee that's coming out, we transitioned through many trials and lack of resources for me, particularly, um, to be able to kind of source a really good flavor combo for our espresso and.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Drip blend that's also an art blending.

Elena: Yeah, because, um, how do I say this? We're not high volume at all. So when I was asking you, how did you start sourcing in the beginning? Like, I I wouldn't see us being even able to do, like, purchasing ten bags. Um, I've only ever known how to do blending versus having standalone coffees. So then when we do have single origin, I try my best to keep the minimal amount of manipulation that I can do, because a lot of the time, the coffees are just delicious as they are. They don't need much, versus I feel like it is an art form to try and do the blend.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Mhm. And do you do, like, post roast blending or pre roast?

Elena: Uh, I mean, I've done that for fun, actually. Um, I just was like, fuck it. I'm just going to throw everything into the roaster and see what comes out. I threw, like, maybe seven different samples of Costa Rica processed varietals into the blender, into the roaster. And I was just like, well, we'll put it on this profile and see what comes out. And it was phenomenal. I was like, this is delicious. But, um, for the most part, we do post roast blend. So it's like, we'll put everything on a different roast and then blend it together with a different yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. I feel like one thing, so we connected with Rob hosts when we first started risking, especially because of the Loring, and just get some mentorship and, uh, advice from him and guidance in getting started with it. Um, one of the things that he kind of recommended was with blending coffees, not to do more than three at a time. Mhm, just because that just kind of gets muddled and you don't really taste much of something and not doing anything below 20%, I will say, um, I.

Elena: Had a three blend for a limited time where it was mostly like, we need to get out of this coffee. Like, we've had it for too long, so we're just going to throw it all. It was, I don't remember the ratio, but it was a three blend ratio of a Kenya and then two Ethiopias, and one of them was an Anaerobic and it was fucking wild. It was crazy. So I feel like for the most part, uh, a three blend could work, but you'd have to have really pronounced characters in profile for that to kind of have that differentiation versus everything does get eventually muddled.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, it's wild too, because with blends, sometimes, depending on how it's being brewed, the 20% will show up the most. Depending on the brew.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: And obviously the majority of the blend will show up if it's brewed in a different way. To me, those things excite me.

Elena: Yeah.

Sumran: We just bought a building for the roastery

Areli Barrera Grodski: Just thought about our holiday blend for we always create something very similar each year, but the components are always just like, depending on what we have available.

Elena: We do the same.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Um, but back to your question about how we started. Um, I think we had created a minimum of maybe five, no more than seven coffees, including a decaf that we would buy. Um, and so what I was doing is I was purchasing coffees that were a little bit higher grade so that I could use them both as like, a single origin and for blending, um, which is a little bit more expensive. But it worked for us at the time because our space, we barely had any space. We're still in the same space, but we ended up putting these pallet racks. Mhm, that really helped us out. Um, during the pandemic, we were able to move up to that, but, um yeah, now it's like I'm, um, purchasing a lot more knowing what coffees we use for blenders. And we're definitely saving money on that just because we're getting it at a higher volume discount. Um, but we don't really have the space to warehouse at all, so we are also warehousing. So it's like, I don't know, I'm excited. We just bought a building, um, and we'll be moving into that building for the roastery. Yeah.

Elena: That's awesome. Congratulations.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Thank you. Um, very excited, um, very excited to have the space and to be able to store a lot of our not just be able to have shipment after shipment because that's also expensive. Mhm yeah. It's a tricky situation of learning how to knowing when to stop. worsting coffee. I'm just like, it's so good.

Elena: But I want honestly, it's a lot of fun. You're going on this exploration of an adventure, trying to find a coffee, and, um, then cupping is so much fun. I love cupping too.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. And it's like new relationships and you end up really liking the person. You're like, I want that coffee. And so then you end up getting like five bags. And so now you have to figure out where to put those five bags. So I don't know, I'm still learning that art having space. Um, but yeah, I think with the ten bags right. Using that as the main blender or something. Mhm and then veering off with other coffee offerings. Um yeah. You learn how to be creative with what you have, I think. Um, and the fun part too, is like, being able to roast one coffee in multiple ways and see what you can know. That's been, like, our journey right now. We just sourced a coffee from Myanmar and we used a Thai coffee that we had in the past.

Elena: Like the profile.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, we used that profile just to start off.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: And it's a natural. Mhm and I was like, I feel like this coffee wants to be lighter. And so we went lighter. And I had a feeling I knew that it needed more development, but I just wanted to try just a lighter roast. And I really liked it. And now it's just a matter of like, I really liked it and it needs more development, but now it's just a matter of like, well, shit, which one's going to sell the best? It's like, my preference doesn't really m matter, what are we going to sell? Because one of them is almost like Roy Bush honey bush tea with raspberry and mango and brown sugar and vanilla. And that's on the medium side. And then the lighter side is like raspberry, mango, but really prominent. It tastes like a natural it's very floral. It's very tea, like, almost like a black tea. Um, the thing I really like about it is that it has this earthiness that isn't a nasty earthiness. It doesn't taste like dirt. You know what I mean? It's almost like a fun mushroom tea in a way. Yeah. It's a fascinating coffee. And to me, those are the coffees that excite me. It's like coffees that I've never really tried before.

Elena: I was going to say, I don't think I've also had a coffee from that region. I had only really negative experiences with Sumatran coffees. And then I had a good lighter roast Sumatra, and I was like, oh my God, it still sticks with me to this day.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. I love when coffees prove me wrong. Yeah.

Elena: And I love a coffee that'll be memorable like that. Like, there was a coffee that, um I love I love her too. That's how I met Macarena Too from Tioconeo when she was working there.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Nice.

Elena: And then, um, there was a coffee that had, like, an anaerobic process, and it tasted straight up, like, just fresh strawberries. And I'm, like, still one of my favorite coffees. So it's cool, like, how much coffee can also be impressionable once you really enjoy the art form of yeah.

There's a lot to learn about fermentation in coffee, too

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. For think, I think that's kind of what I left with in both Brazil and, like, just seeing Edwin's processing methods and the way that he approaches things, it's so, like, his name, El Guinista, is very well given and deserved. Mhm. Everything is like he's kind of measured it to perfection. He's really dialed it in, and it's.

Elena: Just, like, dedicated to the science.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, for real. He's gotten to the point where he's like, my next steps are learning more about the health benefits of fermentation.

Elena: That's cool.

Areli Barrera Grodski: You think about kimchi and you think about fermented foods. Uh, right, right. The same benefits go into coffee. I'm like that's. Never really thought about that from that perspective. Yeah, there's a lot to learn in coffee. And that's another really cool thing I like about it. You think you know everything, but you don't at all.

Elena: And then it keeps evolving, too.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Uh, it keeps evolving, and then it keeps going back to the basics. Everything you poo pooed is now cool again. I love how coffee just proves this wrong time and time again.

Do you have, um, any memorable points in this journey with little waves

Elena: Do you have, um, any extremely memorable points in this journey with little waves or just, like, in your personal coffee journey that's kind of, like, stuck with you till this time?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Hmm? Mhm. Yeah, I feel like one of those things was like I feel like before we started roasting, um, we would purchase coffees from, like, we were a multi roaster account. So we would purchase coffees from different roasters. And almost all of the Guatemalan coffees that we would get were just a little too tart for me. Mhm. And so that was my impression of Guatemalan coffees. And so when I started sourcing coffees, I was like, I don't know that I care too much about Guatemalan coffee. And my first cupping with caravella, it was like, Guatemalan coffees on the table. And I think I did know, but I was like, all right, keep an open mind. I tasted it. I was like, oh my God. These are some of my favorite companies. I think maybe they just were being roasted in a way that just really heightened the, uh, acidity in ways that just didn't taste very balanced to me.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: But yeah, that and then just really learning that. I love really dense coffees, like couturas and peaburries. I love challenges. I feel like the denser.

Elena: So how do you handle Kenyans and Congolese coffee then? Those are my two struggle bus regions when it comes to roasting.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Never roasted a Congolese coffee before. Um, but I love Kenyans. Um, Kenyans are so polarizing.

Elena: I love the dynamic that is in a cup of coffee with a Kenyan coffee. Like, Kenyans and Congolese coffees are some of my favorite.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Pour over or just do you have one right now? Like a Congolese coffee?

Elena: That's one of the components that we use for our blend.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I'm going to have to buy a bag because that sounds really cool. I want to try it.

Elena: It's a blend of Congo and, um, Mexico.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Cool.

Elena: So it's kind of wild. Like, it's a really interesting blend.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Nice. Um, yeah, I think for me, it's just keep trying it. I feel like in the very beginning, when I first started wristing, I was trying to get to these points in the drying phase and the myrrh I m think I was trying to speed through the drying phase. I don't know why. I was just like in my head, I was like, you wanted to hit.

Elena: That Meyer time, right?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, exactly.

Elena: I'm saying that because I know exactly what you're talking about.

Areli Barrera Grodski: That's exactly what it is.

Elena: It's like, it's got to hit four minutes to the dot. Four minutes and 30 seconds. It can't be because you're, like, over here detrimental. Like, oh, my God. If I'm, like, 5 seconds off, it's going to completely change what I wanted to build.

Areli Barrera Grodski: That's exactly what it is. That's so funny. But then I learned to let go of that, and the coffee started tasting sweeter and more balanced. I was like, oh, this is nice. Um, but yeah, just kind of learning each coffee wanting its own intemps and some coffees wanting a lot of development and not feeling weird about it, because I just feel like I feel like all the coffee brews looking at me like, why is this an 18% development? Um I don't know. It's interesting just to see the journey.

Elena: I was going to say this is just random piggybacking off of what you just said is, like, it's really interesting watching how each coffee changes after first crack. Like, you can't tame it. You're just like, all right, so you're on a great road, and sometimes after first crack, it'll just completely change the pathway that it would set.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, yeah. I heard, um, somebody in Brazil a, ah, female roaster say, I try to always just give it a minute and 30 seconds of development at least. I was like, oh, interesting. I'm going to try that. And so I've been trying that and some Ethiopian coffees. Definitely just want, like, 50 seconds. Um, but you go to the cupping table, that's really where the proof is. Yeah. You just keep adjusting.

Elena: I love all of the things over time, I've kind of learned from trial and error. I really do enjoy profile roasting over production roasting. Yeah, I just love the manipulative aspects of, like, okay, so if I just change this, maybe if I change this, let's see how this comes out. And then if I change this, let's see how this comes out. It's just a lot more of the actual you feel, like scientist of some sort.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yes. That's like where you learn the components of the roasting process of what does each part do to the coffee? Where do I get body? Where do I get sweetness? Where do I get more acidity? Where do I mute it down? Um, and I think learning your roaster, I think, is one of the biggest things. And I think that's probably why I felt so intimidating.

Learning a new roaster is like going from automatic to standard

Areli Barrera Grodski: Just because I'm like, I'm so used to the lowering. That's where I feel like I can shine.

Elena: But I was in the same way. I was the same way, though, because I use a US roaster. So mine is a manual. So, like, when I stepped up and we had the opportunity to do that blending challenge, um, and I was just like, everyone wanted to go to the Loring. And I'm like, I don't know anything about this. And I watched it, and I'm like, this is the future. I don't know. I think the only manual gas was that probot, right?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah.

Elena: Or it was the Korean one. I don't remember which one it was.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, but for the most part, right?

Elena: But for the most part, uh, all the other ones weren't. And I was just like, how am I supposed to I don't know. I feel very comfortable on my machine, but if you threw me on even a diedrich, I'm like, I don't know how I could that would just take time. But yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I think that's why manipulating the profile is an important skill set, because that's where you can kind of start once you get over the fact that this isn't your machine and you have to learn it, it's kind of like going from automatic to standard. You know how to drive. You just need to figure out the mechanics of the standard. Now, I don't know.

Elena: That's a really interesting analogy, because in my head, I'm like, well, if I fuck up, stick, I'll just crash or ruin the car. It's fine. Casualties, it's okay. I always have this fear when I'm messing around with coffee, especially if it's like a new one. I'm like, Man, I'm going to just waste a whole batch if I don't do well on it.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, that's the other thing. It's like, uh, what do you do with that coffee when you're profiling it?

Elena: Yeah, I was going to say sometimes throw it in a cold brew or put it I'll take a bag and I'll donate somewhere. Just isn't solvable.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, we usually blend it or we'll throw it on espresso, and it's usually really good.

Elena: I was going to say, how does it pull?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, yeah, I think profiling is my favorite thing to do as well. It's like getting to learn a coffee. And I think putting your knowledge to the test of reading the moisture level, the density, where it's from, what's the variety, how high was it grown? Mhm, all of those data points, but also just kind of like trusting yourself and trusting your gut. And then past experiences with other coffees that are similar. Just like, how hot do you charge it? How fast do you add gas?

Elena: Can I just say this is a really random thing, but I really fucking hate the word soaked. I really don't. When I walked in, I was just like, what the fuck? Soaked. I don't like the way that we're just casually throwing this into terminology. Yeah, I soaked. Um, the real strip before I dropped the beans. We couldn't have figured a better word. It's like preheated or something. I don't know.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, I don't know about that one.

Elena: It's like using the word moist. I'm like, I moistened my roaster.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh my no. Stop it.

Where do you see little waves trying to go now in your coffee business

Elena: So at this point then, with everything you have going on and a lot of good gradual growth, where do you see little waves trying to go now? Like, what's the trajectory you're trying to keep going on?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, for me, I feel like growth for the sake of growth has never been for us, um, just trying to think about coffee careers and livable wages and livelihoods, but through the entire supply stream. How do we just keep enhancing these relationships? How do we keep finding that work life balance, keep doing the things that we love and are passionate about and just keep creating, I don't know, a net positive experience for everyone.

Elena: Um, livable wages is really a great thing to try and uplift.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. And it's not just livable wages, it's like career oriented salaries. Right. Ah, that takes growth to be able to provide that. Um, we're not currently offering, um, health insurance just because as the size of the business that we are, it costs our team less money to get insurance by themselves than through us.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um I don't know. Just really kind of imagining I don't know.

Elena: How do you take care of your team and yourself?

ally just been hustling since: 2010

Elena: Yeah, I could see that.

we won Rooster of the Year in: 2022

Elena: Yeah. Because you're looking at it face front.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. And it's not just about your coffee, it's about your methods and your practices. And, um, it's a holistic approach. Um, so even if you don't make it to the finalist stage, I feel like the process itself is very rewarding. And it helps kind of pinpoint areas that you might want to keep working at or towards, and then just keep applying. Um, it did help us. It helped us as a team, one, to feel motivated and affirmed, but two, to get our name out there. Um, I think it's like going back to our experience at the Richter Guild Retreat. It's like being Latina led women forward is like it's fun, but it's also like it feels like we have to prove ourselves a little bit more sometimes.

Elena: Yeah, I get that 100%.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, and so things like that really feel great when we get them. I talked to, um, Daniel from, uh, he works at Cropster now. Um, he used to work at Spirit Tea. And one of our conversations that we had, he has a podcast as well.

M: It's interesting because having Q grader certification feels nice

Areli Barrera Grodski: Was it just around is it worth spending money on these courses and classes, mhm, or is it better to learn that on your own and spend that money on your team or on things that are going to push your business forward? Right. It's interesting because feeling it's almost like it feels really nice to have the Q grader certification because I know I worked really hard for that and mhm yet it's also kind of sad that it takes that certification to be taken seriously sometimes. And it's like again, it's one of those things that it's like no one's actually told me that, but I think having it just kind of feels I.

Elena: Mean, what's really interesting is, um, when I first started learning about cupping. I remember my mentor at the time was explaining to me about q grading because he was also q graded certified at that time. And I remember how it sounded super lavish. And the idea of doing that made me feel like the sense of empowerment towards the cause of what I was trying to do, which is understand coffee more. But I remember when we had the conversation and I asked him, is it worth it? And I loved his answer because he said no. He said, you will learn so much more actually cupping and experiencing coffee in a way where it's applicable to normal daily life. Than the tests they'll run you through. And I think that at the end of the day, um, I don't know, I guess this is just subjective, right? Like it's just open to whatever anyone else's personal perspective on it is. But you can still enjoy wine. You can still enjoy wine without being a sommelier. You can still try to educate and try to understand wine on a level where you drink it enough, you talk about it enough, you read about it enough. There's still not that much of a differentiation besides terminology, understanding, placement. But it's like a lot of this can be self taught. A lot of it can be taught through exploration and experience versus, uh, it's crazy how expensive it is too. I think for me, cost efficiency is a big factor on how I kind of live my life. And that's why a lot of the time it sucks how I feel so distant from the coffee community because so much of it is like, I can't afford to attend these things. And I know that I've talked about this on the show before and I've had guests who also vocalize that too. It's just like, you probably really won't see me at SCA events unless there's an option for somebody like myself to apply for another scholarship. But for the most of just, it's really hard to kind of put yourself in these categories when there's not much opportunity for people who have lower income lifestyles that just can't participate. M, but I mean, that shouldn't belittle someone's talent for being able to understand profiles on flavor and food. Because at the same time, it's just like, that's all that is once you're able to kind of identify it, it's applicable to literally everything. I applied my wine knowledge to coffee. There's differences in actual, like what the product is, but for the most part, your mouth is an experience that will trial everything connected with food. Which is why a lot of the time we use food tasting notes.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, well that's no, I agree. I think I do find that the queue was valuable to me just because, um, I was really nervous about it, honestly. But I was like, I do this on a day to day basis. In theory, I should be able to pass this knowing how hard it is, but it's kind of putting what I'm doing on a day to day basis to the test. Um, so the fact that I passed it on my first try, I did some prep work, I knew what I was walking into, but not fully. It was really intense. Uh, and it's like a really intense it's like training and then you take the exams. Um, and yeah, it's really expensive and then you have to keep it updated every three years. But I guess for me, what I find valuable is being able to take that experience and bring it back to work and then share that experience with the team and get them to that level of being able to detect defects and quality control. Honestly, it's more useful for green buyers than really baristas, but I think it's still, like, good pallet development. Uh, there's a lot that you already know that you don't need that certification for mhm, but it does kind of put that stamp of M. Like, I've gone through the wringer and you can trust my palate kind of thing, especially globally when you're trying to think about that. But it's also fun to just when I was in Brazil, learning to hear other people other people's tasting notes and other people talk about the coffees and learn from them. This isn't like, just because I got this certification doesn't mean I'm no longer learning or no longer speaking how to taste. Doesn't mean I'm the best taster ever. It's still a learning process, but it does give me a little bit more relief of being able to say what I'm scoring is based off of my experience with these things. But I had that before the Q grader, too, though. It's just like a stamp of Affirmation, I guess. Mhm a really expensive one. Um, but it's also know, just like seeing Camila be a like, if we ever wanted to go down that route, this is the first step to it.

Elena: I don't know.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Pros and cons, I guess. Um, but, yeah, I wish that there were more opportunities for, uh, the ability to I don't know, it's almost like we need, uh, pro developments that we do internally, but for everyone, like, things that you would technically do at the queue and just, like, I don't know, share that knowledge so you don't have the course. Yeah.

Elena: So I'm going to transition the topic. You ready?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Do it.

On the show, we have a little segment called Hot Takes

Elena: So, on the show, we have a little segment called Hot Takes. Uh, I love how your reaction was that. So it gives you the opportunity to vocalize a hot take that you have towards the industry.

Areli Barrera Grodski: I feel like you already have one.

Elena: It's basically uncensored. Unfiltered. It's basically the opportunity to kind of vocalize something that frustrates you or something you would love to be brought to awareness. So what is your hot take?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Oh, God. Come on. Um oh, God. Okay, so mine, I feel like the one that I've been always thinking about is, um, competitions.

Elena: What about them?

Areli Barrera Grodski: Competitions. And honestly, I feel like I still feel very passionate about this view. But then I always convince myself out of it. I talk myself out of it because I'm like, Fuck. I see the aspects that benefit this side of it, but for the most part, I just get really peeved about the idea that it's all, like, high end coffees, like geisha's. Yes. And what are we pushing here as an industry? What are we telling the rest of the world about coffee production?

Elena: Um, because, honestly, what is the likelihood of a normal coffee shop you walk into to be serving a geisha on espresso.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. I mean, there are a few that do it, but you have to be in the right neighborhood. Right. You have to know who your audience is for that. Who's going to pay $30 or so for a pour over of this coffee? Um damn, I don't know. Um, one thing that I love is that our head is round so we can change our mind. This might be my hot take now, but I might, like I said, convince myself out of it later.

Elena: Like what you've been doing.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, pretty much just being in a fucking loop of yes no, yes no. What? Um, I think in the very beginning and I think I also went to The Queue very skeptical about the value of coffees and grading coffees and why certain coffees got higher scores rather than blenders or whatever. Uh, um, I think I learned a lot. I learned a lot at the Queue regarding that stuff. Um, but I feel like with competitions, it's like this is our first year entering competition world, and it's very daunting, to be honest. It's, um, very broy still. Um, yeah. Uh, I think the biggest thing that has gotten me is trying to understand the reasoning behind the competition committee not putting limits on a coffee. I know, like preliminaries, you just are given a coffee and you have to do what you can with that coffee and learn it within a few whatever a day. Um, but then when it comes to qualifiers and nationals or whatever, um, and then world. Yeah. Um, I guess that's my question. It's like, what are we trying to push as an industry in these things? And it's like, if it's more equity for producers, then why not use coffees that are everyday coffees?

Elena: Yeah, I agree with that.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah.

Elena: I think it's also harder as a barista to kind of make a craft beverage off of a I don't want to say how do I word this? It's really easy to make an extremely well pronounced coffee taste good. I think it takes a lot more of an art form as a competitor and as a, um, barista to make a coffee. That takes a lot of understanding of using the product well and making it a pronounced yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. No, I agree. I feel like I had this conversation with Edwin, actually. Um, and one of his things was like, a lot of the competitors talk a lot about the producer, but don't actually I don't know, it was interesting to hear his perspective, um, because not everyone has access to go to Origin mhm. Um, but in his mind, he was like, why don't all competitors go to Origin and actually get to meet the producer? I think in his mind, it was probably more about highlighting the producer, um, and getting to know the fruits of the areas and using those highlight the coffee which I feel like I read recently, like, an article from Morgan who talked about using rulo and stuff. I, um, think she used Colombian coffee. Um, but I also would love to see more people from origin in competition.

Elena: That'd be really cool, actually. That makes also so much sense that it doesn't need to be explained why.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, exactly. I know some, um, producers have competed in brewers and, um, some barista competitions, but I don't know, we need to see more of that. And I know that there are limitations to that just in terms of getting a visa to compete in worlds and in other places.

Elena: Yeah, international travel sucks.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Mhm mhm. But that would be, I don't know, just really cool to see.

Elena: I feel like it'd be really special, too.

I think competition can be very off putting in coffee industry, sometimes

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah, I think so. I feel like to me, that's, like, kind of pushing the envelope. I don't know, I think I'm still finding my legs in understanding the value of competition. Yeah, I think that as an individual, you probably learn a lot more about where you are with your skills and how you can keep learning and growing if you're really interested in coffee as a career. Um, overall, I feel like the vibes are pretty cute. Um, people are really nice, but there are definitely moments of broiness that can feel very off putting and uninviting.

Elena: Yeah.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Um, but I think that also just kind of comes back to understanding humanity. And again, we're such a nerdy crew, like coffee industry people. Okay. I kind of get it. And yet it's still off putting. I don't know. That's not a very hot take.

Elena: No, I actually really liked that one. We've had some really interesting, um, Answers throughout the past few episodes on this. Um, but no, I liked that one. I feel like it's probably something everyone else also thinks, but as I'm vocalized that if I went up to different people, they probably would have been like, yeah, I'm kind of tired of seeing a geisha win every time. Um, I feel that way towards cup of Excellence too, whenever I see the results. Um, yeah, but, um yes, I really appreciated our chats.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yes.

Elena: I loved having the talk about roasting stuff with somebody for a change. I always feel like I'm like, talking to myself, trying to figure shit out, and it's just nice that the mutual issues and the mutual struggles are there and I can just geek about it with somebody.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yes. And let's start exchanging coffees.

Elena: Uh, I'm actually super curious to what you'll think about this too.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Yeah. Um, I do want to get that Carnival East coffee, though. That sounds really exciting.

Elena: It's delicious, too.

Well, I will let you go. Was there anything else you'd like to say before we clock off

Elena: Well, I will let you go. Was there anything else you'd like to say before we clock off?

Areli Barrera Grodski: No. Thank you so much. Keep doing. You, um you're doing great. Um, I really appreciate you creating this platform and continue to be curious and continue to take up space and yeah, let's keep in touch.

Elena: Yes, please. If I'm ever in north carolina, I said, yeah, I will definitely stop by.

Areli Barrera Grodski: All right. Yeah. If I'm ever in Ohio. Is that right?

Elena: Yeah. I'm like, yeah, hopefully you don't really find many reasons to come up north. Save yourself.

Areli Barrera Grodski: No, my dad used to go to, um, columbus, ohio a lot because, um, uh, his craft shops that he had in, like, the wintertime was really slow mhm and would go to columbus to go to the mall, which is like soul sucking, but great for him.

Elena: Yeah, the mall.

Areli Barrera Grodski: A shop in the mall in columbus, ohio. I don't know why there, but who knows? My dad just yeah, I don't know. It worked for him. Well.

Elena: I appreciate you for being open to come on the show for your thoughts and your hot take. It was great talking to you.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Likewise.

Elena: I'll definitely catch you on the flip side.

Areli Barrera Grodski: Sounds good. Okay, see you then. Bye.

This was a really good, informative episode about roasting coffee

Elena: I liked how the listeners are definitely going to learn a lot more about roasting and the intricacies in this episode. I feel like this was a really good, informative episode, and it felt really nice and cathartic for me to finally have someone to kind of vocalize these frustrations or see if it's ah a is it just me? And the fact that it isn't just me is actually really nice. Um, but yeah, I really liked her story. I think it's like every time I talk to somebody who started their own business in the coffee industry, seems to always find a way to intricately make it a part of their life. Every person we've kind of talked to has made really deep connections with what they do, and it's like, from her partnership to creating the name, to how she wants to source, how she wants to create an atmosphere and a work culture, to even like, the idea of growth for her is the betterment of what she's building. Not even just like, I want to continue my chain, or I want to do this. It's like, well, how can I continue to grow? How can I continue to take care of myself, my partner, and my work and my like, I love that. That was the answer to that. Here's the thing. Camilla also. I like the fact that she brought up Camilla, because Camilla's episode is something that I kind of have never kind of let go where camilla also talked about how much pressure it puts on the producers to make coffee. At a level that's just constantly beating this grading system versus being satisfied with coffee and accepting that there is going to be a limitation and there are going to be defects. It my whole perception honestly changed after that episode when it came to grading. Like, she's very powerful with how she explained that, too. To me,

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