My guest for this episode is Mitch Webb, a nervous system coach and holistic healing guide who helps people heal from chronic stress and trauma by reconnecting with their bodies. He blends science, somatics, and personal experience to help others feel safe, grounded, and alive.

The conversation centres around the importance of being connected to your physical and emotional experience as a man, the benefits of that connection and how we can do that, as well as the negative impacts on our overall health when we try to force the more traditional, stoic approach of pushing through the pain and pushing down the emotions. There is no denying that our physical health is intricately connected to our mental and spiritual health, and this episode will introduce you to several ideas and practical steps for renewing that connection and working towards a more holistic approach to overall health.

Find Mitch Webb Here:

Website: mitchwebb.com

Facebook: facebook.com/mitch.webb.503

Instagram: instagram.com/kmitchwebb/

Find The Akkeri Here:

Website: TheAkkeri.com

Facebook: Facebook.com/theakkeri

Instagram: Instagram.com/the.akkeri

YouTube: YouTube.com/theakkeri

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;23;02

Mitch Webb

We just don't get taught how to listen to our body and take care of our self. It will suck it up and keep going and push through and push through and suck it up and I get it. Well, you know, I had all these protective patterns that kept me feeling safe by putting these mask on and overriding what was really going on underneath.

00;00;23;05 - 00;00;34;00

Mitch Webb

One of my favorite jokes is trauma is like farts, because if you hold it in, it hurts. And if you let it out too quick, it'll clear, right? We want to do a little bit at a time.

00;00;34;03 - 00;00;55;05

Matt Howlett

You were listening to the podcast, a show about men and masculinities, the challenges that modern men face and how to chart a better way forward. I'm your host, Matt Howlett, mental health coach and founder of The Akkeri. My guest for this episode is Mitch Webb, a nervous system coach and holistic healing guide who helps people heal from chronic stress and trauma by reconnecting with their bodies.

00;00;55;07 - 00;01;17;21

Matt Howlett

He blends science, somatics and personal experience to help others feel safe, grounded, and alive. The conversation centers around the importance of being connected to your physical and emotional experience as a man. The benefits of that connection and how we can do that, as well as the negative impacts on our overall health. And we try to force the more traditional, stoic approach of pushing through the pain and pushing down the emotions.

00;01;17;24 - 00;01;40;16

Matt Howlett

There's no denying that our physical health is intricately connected to our mental and spiritual health, and this episode will introduce you to several ideas and practical steps for renewing that connection and working towards a more holistic approach to overall health. Now here is the conversation with Mitch Weber. All right. We got Mitch Webb on the podcast today. Thank you so much, Mitch, for joining us.

00;01;40;18 - 00;02;05;06

Mitch Webb

There, man. Thank you so much for having me, man. And I appreciate the opportunity to share and talk about mental wellness and how, you know, we can apply that to, spaces that that men are in. So yeah, man my journey, I'm a health and wellness and nervous system coach, and, you know, it started with my own health journey, and, I was more of a corporate sales guy there for a while.

00;02;05;08 - 00;02;25;07

Mitch Webb

But let me take you back even further than that. When I was, 20 years old, I was traveling in Europe. I had a, I fell out of a second story window. It was the World Cup. We were partying. Traumatic brain injury. Not too much longer. Concussion, you know? So, I started having panic attacks.

00;02;25;07 - 00;02;47;05

Mitch Webb

Started having insomnia. I don't even know what the panic attack was like. It was just not who I was. It's very, dysregulated. And so they gave me some medication. They sent me on my way. You know, I'm in college at the time, the medication got me through college. So I broke out in autoimmune disease, so I had.

00;02;47;05 - 00;03;09;21

Mitch Webb

That's a very common post. Post-traumatic stress kind of thing. Plaque psoriasis over my entire body. So, along with the medication, I got a, I mean, suppressant. And, you know, I just kind of went about my way and, out of college, started working with, my family business, working in the corporate world. Lots more stress. We moved into a house that had black mold in it.

00;03;09;23 - 00;03;29;23

Mitch Webb

And without me knowing, obviously. And, you know, you were talking about a 200 year old house before we got on. This was probably a 100 year old house, something we were renting. And, developed Lyme disease because of that. Wow. And, yeah. Very debilitating. The symptoms are very similar. But to give you an idea, I would have joint pain all the time.

00;03;29;23 - 00;03;47;12

Mitch Webb

Brain fog. I'd get lost driving in my home town and, didn't know what was going on. It was very slow. I met a doctor that, luckily, is functional medicine, and they took a full history on me. I thought I had a drug problem because I was looking for things to help me sleep, like Xanax.

00;03;47;12 - 00;04;08;27

Mitch Webb

That kind of thing. And, you know, they they we eventually found the mold. We found the, the Lyme disease, found out that I was some metabolic issues, like borderline diabetes going on work with the really great doctor and and reversed all that, and I just I fell in love with, you know, health and wellness at the time, it was kind of more of a biohacking approach.

00;04;08;27 - 00;04;38;04

Mitch Webb

I was finding ways to hack my health and do these little shortcuts. And, I thought I was cracking the code, two in that, eventually that came back to bite me, but, left the corporate world, started, health coaching, and, one of my, one of my first coaches, clients. And I was going to go see, I got hit by a dump truck, so it totaled my car and, killed my dogs.

00;04;38;07 - 00;04;57;11

Mitch Webb

It was horrible. Post-concussion syndrome for, like, a year. After after going through all that shit and getting my life back and ready to help people, you know, had to go right back into, the dark night of the soul, which I've had many of those. And so, a year goes by, I'm finally feeling better.

00;04;57;13 - 00;05;20;08

Mitch Webb

00;05;20;08 - 00;05;51;13

Mitch Webb

00;05;51;15 - 00;06;14;01

Mitch Webb

But the big improvement came when we had a men's group here that had a couple of guys and I started and, I was reading, you know, the Body keeps the score. Learning a little bit about trauma. I flip past the childhood trauma part. I'm like, there's no way I can even look at that stuff. Like, I felt shame for even considering that my childhood could have been traumatic.

00;06;14;03 - 00;06;29;00

Mitch Webb

And, the way I answer the question in the group, one of the guys pulled me aside and said, hey, man, you're reading that book. But if you score, guys in trauma, I'm like, yeah. He's like, that's you, dude. The way you answered that question about your dad, like, ding ding ding, you know, you you win the golden prize.

00;06;29;00 - 00;06;52;00

Mitch Webb

Let me let me help you out. And so found my way to some therapists, found my my mentor that I was seeing Erin Lyon. Yeah. Started just devoured it. That information. And, within, like, the first three months, I went from eating one meal a day to multiple meals a day. I started reversing my food sensitivities, got my energy back.

00;06;52;00 - 00;07;13;20

Mitch Webb

I got back in the gym, sleeping better, feeling better. I mean, it changed my life now. Yeah. I'm three years at this point doing this work, working one on one. Starting to work with clients and, just embodying this work as much as I can, making it a lifestyle like I do. And, I mean, it's it's the the greatest thing that I ever.

00;07;13;23 - 00;07;24;17

Mitch Webb

It's the glue that brings everything else together. Because now I'm doing it my way. I'm listening to my body instead of relying on everybody else to heal me or fix me or whatever.

00;07;24;19 - 00;07;55;25

Matt Howlett

Yeah, I'm curious what, it will in in the reflection, in the work that you've done to get to where you're at. What did you recognize about yourself that kept you from getting to the place where you are now? And that might sound a little bit confusing, but what I'm trying to get at is the barriers that we have in place in our, that we put in place as men in our lives to keep us from feeling, to keep us from being connected to our bodies, to keep us from, you know, kind of reflecting on the past.

00;07;55;26 - 00;08;28;07

Matt Howlett

Because sometimes, you know, we have to do that. We don't always have to be, you know, reflecting on some past incident. But like you just mentioned, there are parts of our lives that our traumatic whether we admit to them or not, whether we realize it in the moment or not, but we tend to stay away from that. I would say the majority of men, that's at least the the rhetoric that I see online, especially when I'm posting content or dealing with other clients in the same space, you get a lot of feedback from just people online saying that, you know, guy that's not manly, don't do that.

00;08;28;10 - 00;08;40;08

Matt Howlett

What what did you see about yourself that was active? You know what, like, I guess, ways of thinking, ways of living, ways of being that kept you away from that type of work.

00;08;40;10 - 00;09;01;17

Mitch Webb

It was a language that I was not familiar with. At all. There was no emotional wellness in my family. It was, the exact opposite. Very not a lot of narcissism, a lot of emotional immaturity, a lot of, you know, suck it up and don't be a bitch and don't tell anybody about that. And you're weak and you're going to make us look bad.

00;09;01;20 - 00;09;31;04

Mitch Webb

A lot of perfectionism, a lot of people pleasing, a lot of black or white thinking all or nothing. You know, I had all these protective patterns that kept me feeling safe by, you know, controlling a situation by putting these masks on and, and, overriding what was really going on underneath. And, it got to a point where I had so much sensation and emotion in my body, that I didn't know what the hell it meant.

00;09;31;06 - 00;09;58;12

Mitch Webb

And I really had this belief that something was wrong with me. And that comes from childhood, that that's toxic shame. Says, know what's the difference between guilt and shame? And guilt is I did something bad. Shame is I am bad. Something's wrong with me. Right. That underlying dysregulation and lack of attunement, lack of emotional intelligence, or how to even communicate or listen to my body communicate with other people, say how I'm feeling.

00;09;58;15 - 00;10;17;29

Mitch Webb

I was a mess. You know, I just I thought I was broken, I thought something was wrong with me. And I've been sick for so long and had lots of evidence, but I didn't understand, you know, this, this foundation that that, didn't have. And I think, you know, my parents, it's not like my parents have overtly abusive.

00;10;17;29 - 00;10;36;26

Mitch Webb

It was just, it's a language that that we didn't speak, you know, and, and, I think so many of us in today's culture, we just don't get taught how to listen to our body and take care of myself and especially the the emotional and the, you know, the softer side of things. It was, suck it up and keep going and push through.

00;10;36;26 - 00;10;59;01

Mitch Webb

And brother, pushed through and sucked it up and overrode and forced myself to feel good because I thought I was broken for so long that I couldn't do it anymore, and I, I hit a wall. Oftentimes when you're, you're used to running through walls, you know, that's when burnout happens. So. And like me and the, the men that I work with.

00;10;59;03 - 00;11;27;10

Mitch Webb

Yeah. A lot of men don't come to this work unless they have hit a rock bottom. Yeah. And I hit the rock bottom and bounce a couple times or. Yeah, yeah. Before I was willing to look at it. And, it was, I, I've been through everything. I feel like in health and wellness, I tried everything. There's some things that brought great value to my life, but this was so out of my awareness that it was like, I feel like a little baby at almost 40 years old learning this stuff.

00;11;27;12 - 00;11;37;25

Matt Howlett

So what has been the most impactful thing for you in the can you say this stuff? Like what? What is the most impactful thing that has, well, it stands out to you right now.

00;11;37;27 - 00;12;01;14

Mitch Webb

Let me tell this story. So after a year of doing this, I remember, telling my wife, like, hey, you know, once you can once you especially as a coach, you can only meet someone as far as you at the depth that you've met in yourself. Yep. And I'm sure you get that. And so now that I can see these things, I say I like the same.

00;12;01;19 - 00;12;17;23

Mitch Webb

If I can see and I don't have to be it. Right. So now I've been seeing it and I've been working through it, and then I can see it on everybody else. It's like it's like going to a, rave with glow paint and somebody turns the blue light on, like, oh, yeah, I can see everybody's stuff now, right?

00;12;17;23 - 00;12;37;18

Mitch Webb

It's I can see patterns in my wife that same patterns that I had. And I'm like, hey, let's, let's go to therapy together. Like let's or you go to therapy however you want to do it, I'll do it with you. You do it on your own. Like I really want to grow together. I want to do this work together, you know, like we've done with learning about nutrition, like we've done with exercise, like we've done with with other mental approaches.

00;12;37;20 - 00;12;55;15

Mitch Webb

And, and she looks at me and she goes, you are offending me. And I was like, what? I thought I'm being like the fucking the best husband on the planet right now. Like, all women want this. Like this man who's really to be in their emotions. And I'm trying to get you to do this with me. But what?

00;12;55;19 - 00;13;15;27

Mitch Webb

I realized she wasn't ready, you know? And so a couple months later, she was. And and this is something that changed. That's big for me. And, I read it to her and and sidebar, what I'm saying here is you can't make anybody do this work. Yeah, I get that question all the time. If somebody is resistant, what do you do?

00;13;15;27 - 00;13;35;05

Mitch Webb

You you you show them. If you demonstrate what wellness is and you hold space for women and be compassionate and who knows, maybe one day they'll do their they have the impulse to do it themselves. So my wife we're having a conversation. I remember I came home from a hockey game and and she's like, hey, I'm going to therapy tomorrow.

00;13;35;05 - 00;13;56;09

Mitch Webb

And I was like, what? And I mean, I'm getting like emotional thinking about it because she said, you know, I can tell when we get in arguments, you don't blow up as much and, you're able to calmly tell me what you're feeling. Where are you feeling it, what the emotion is and what you need. And at the time, for her.

00;13;56;11 - 00;14;17;09

Mitch Webb

And she's hearing that. Sorry, I'm talking about you, but, Yeah, you know, at her, the time, she would get very emotional and she wouldn't be able to express herself. Kind of like that. Like Cat got your tongue thing, like, I can't interpret it and I can't. And so I just get overwhelmed and I shut down and, you know, we're kind of stuck.

00;14;17;11 - 00;14;27;12

Mitch Webb

And so she said, hey, I want that for myself. And I was like, wow, that's awesome. You know? So there's a million of those. So that's just the first one that came on.

00;14;27;14 - 00;14;47;08

Matt Howlett

What comes up with your, clients specifically, like, obviously we just well, you just mentioned that they probably are hitting rock bottom. That's maybe what's bringing them to you. But what has been the most impactful thing in your work with with clients?

00;14;47;10 - 00;15;09;13

Mitch Webb

Yeah, it's really just teaching them to be here now, teaching them to be aware and to especially like the, the guy that's, an entrepreneur or, a business owner or, you know, the guy I'm thinking about right now is a, like a hedge fund guy, right? Sure. Good. My boy. Made a bunch of money quick.

00;15;09;16 - 00;15;32;03

Mitch Webb

When I say good old boy. Just great character in a business developing land with a bunch of hawks. Right? To to get into this world. You earn it, and you got a bunch of power and money, right? Right. But this is a good guy, right? He's not this power hungry. You know. Feisty dude, but he's around a bunch of sharks and doesn't know it.

00;15;32;05 - 00;15;56;23

Mitch Webb

And so, it started differently. People come to me because of pain, because of symptoms, because of something that is nagging. And they've done everything and nothing's working, right. They've done the the detoxes, they've done the diets, they've gone to therapy potentially. Right. And they just have this thing in this guy's thing was more mental. But but what showed up on the first day we work together was this pain in his neck.

00;15;56;25 - 00;16;14;12

Mitch Webb

And, I'm like, you know, we did bench press or something, but I have clients that I work with locally, mostly remote, but some locally, and we'll meet and do little things like that. And, he couldn't lift a dumbbell over his head, and I'm like, you know, you just winced in pain. I'm like, what is that?

00;16;14;14 - 00;16;36;10

Mitch Webb

He's like, I gotta show it. Can remember shutting his neck. And I said, how long you been dealing with that? He's like 5 or 6 years. And I'm like, what? I'm like to go see this chiropractor, go see this body worker. Tell him, tell them this, this and this. And I get that straightened out. And this is this is right when I started doing more nervous system and emotional wellness stuff.

00;16;36;12 - 00;16;53;06

Mitch Webb

So I sent him on his way. Six months later, I'd say we're we're hanging out by his pool. We're hanging, we're talking. We became really good buddies. And, he's like, man, my shoulder, my shoulder. He's like, I'm not going to the chiropractor anymore. It sucks. It hurts worse than it when I started. It doesn't help me at all.

00;16;53;08 - 00;17;12;27

Mitch Webb

And I'm like, shocked, right? And I go, well, tell me more. And so we're we're talking. And he's like, man, I get home and I'm just so damn tired. At the end of the day, I don't have time to do these walks that you want me to do. I'm like, I get that. But when he said that, he said, when I get hungry and then people that are watching, not watching, I'm hiking my shoulders up to my ear like I'm carrying a bunch of weight.

00;17;12;28 - 00;17;28;06

Mitch Webb

Yeah. Okay. How many men are carrying a bunch of Bush at home at the end of the day? Right. So it's the perfect it's textbook. Yeah. And so. So how often are you doing this thing, you know, with your shoulders up. He's like, I don't know. I'm like, well, can you feel that you're doing it right now? He's like, yeah.

00;17;28;07 - 00;17;48;11

Mitch Webb

I was like, all right. So feel that tension that you're holding in your shoulders. They might listen, I can do this right now to feel that tension. And yeah, you can let it go really quick. But what I want you to do is I want you to really feel that you're holding this tension, and I want you to let it go so slow that I can't see it.

00;17;48;14 - 00;18;06;10

Mitch Webb

Right. If I was watching you, I want you to teach your body what it feels like to let go of that tension. And so we did that a couple of times. And, you know, obviously he knew how to do that. And so do your homework this week. I want you to be aware of when those shoulders climb up your neck and tell me about it.

00;18;06;13 - 00;18;19;26

Mitch Webb

You know, I want you to get to know that like it's a friend. I want you to tell me every detail you can about it. Right? And he comes back and he's all excited. You know, he's like, oh, man, I'm doing it all the time. I'm doing it in these meetings. And I got to get to these freaking meetings and I'm like, what's going on?

00;18;19;26 - 00;18;33;06

Mitch Webb

I mean, he's like, God, it's freaking assholes in there. And I'm just coming out here and they last. They can last 2 or 3 hours and it's just not productive and blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, where are you in the meeting? He's like, I'm putting my head down. I'm trying to get through it.

00;18;33;06 - 00;18;51;15

Mitch Webb

And again, for those are listen, my shoulders are up on my ears again. And so, you know, and then he would let it go, okay. And I'm like okay great. So you've learned you've got some awareness of what's going on in the moment now. And so I said, are you ready for your next step? And he's like, yeah.

00;18;51;18 - 00;19;09;18

Mitch Webb

So I said in these meetings I want you to really feel your butt interior. I want you to stay there. I want you to stay in the room by feeling your button chair. I want you to feel your back, up against the the backrest. And I want you to look around you to feel your feet on the ground.

00;19;09;21 - 00;19;27;03

Mitch Webb

I want you to notice what's going on with your breath. What's it doing? I don't want you to change it. I just want you to observe it. And then I want you to look around the room and find things that are interesting. Constantly use your senses. What are five things you can, you can point out with your vision?

00;19;27;03 - 00;19;44;25

Mitch Webb

What are two things that you can hear? Can you feel different textures right? Can you can you bring awareness into the moment? I didn't hear back from me from two weeks. He comes back and he's like, I'm like, how'd it go? And I didn't really this is a guy that I said, hey, have you ever been to therapy?

00;19;44;25 - 00;20;03;27

Mitch Webb

You ever thought about that? He's like, hell no, I'm not doing that. I'll talk to you. And I'm like, all right. So I said, how'd it go? And I'm expecting crickets. And he's like, oh, dude, I fired five people. Two of those people are no longer my friends. I got him out of my life. He's like, I got a new trajectory with my business.

00;20;03;27 - 00;20;28;18

Mitch Webb

We're doing this. He's like, they were all owned a piece of me. So what's going on? There is this man pain is is trapped. Survival energy. That's trauma. That's something that was overwhelming that we could not respond to. Fight flight for three or fight flight. Run away or fight. Right. We didn't have the resources to deal with it, so we freeze.

00;20;28;25 - 00;20;54;12

Mitch Webb

Yep. That is collapse. That stays in our system. And so this this pain is repressed emotions. And so this lack of awareness is coming from avoiding the pain and avoiding this, these shitty people these around. But we bring awareness in. And now the pain went away. And he's responding to the environment instead of dragging himself through it. Yeah.

00;20;54;12 - 00;20;55;22

Mitch Webb

Coming up and everything.

00;20;55;25 - 00;21;16;18

Matt Howlett

Yeah. So we've we've got guys well specifically that's generally what I try and talk to is, you know, fight flight, freeze or fawn. But that's why you're rooting for there. And if you if you're doing that over an extended period of time, then yeah, that's something that's going to be ingrained. It's going to be habitual. And it's going to be exactly what you just described.

00;21;16;18 - 00;21;39;07

Matt Howlett

And the guy that you're working with, what, what has been the feedback that you've received from these guys has has it been generally like that where it's like eye opening and, you know, something that they once thought maybe less of want to shy away from, didn't want to talk about, especially didn't want to go to therapy. But now they're like, oh my goodness, this is life changing.

00;21;39;09 - 00;21;59;02

Mitch Webb

Oh yeah. And here's the thing with guys. We get you. I was talking to another person in my group this morning. Like we get a bad rap for not doing the therapy, but what I say about men when they do decide to do it, that it is a little bit ambiguous. We like things in like sequential orders and like very specific.

00;21;59;05 - 00;22;19;29

Mitch Webb

So we've got to learn that a little bit. But man, if they're committed and they do the work, they excel extremely fast. And it blows my mind. You know, for someone doing this for two years and learning this language, and seeing the thing is that it took me two years, I didn't have a coach like this.

00;22;19;29 - 00;22;31;10

Mitch Webb

And that's the benefit of a coach, is it's just you got more feedback. It's like instead of trying to figure this thing out on my own, this language, it's like, I mean, can you imagine learning Spanish without a teacher?

00;22;31;12 - 00;22;38;22

Matt Howlett

I yeah, I'm doing it right now at Duolingo. And he's, Duolingo. The little, the little character is very upset with me because I haven't been there in a week.

00;22;38;24 - 00;23;02;04

Mitch Webb

Oh, but but yeah, I mean, you got guys that, you know, show up on day one and they're so checked out and disconnected from their body, you know, their, their, their, vocal prosody, the way that they're the voice can go up and down, you know, they're talking very monotone. And you're looking over here and within like a month, you know, digestive stuff is a big one.

00;23;02;07 - 00;23;21;24

Mitch Webb

For me, because we have so much activation, of course, your your body body's under threat, you know, and and so it's just it's just contorted. Contracted. Yeah. And that gets into your stomach. And so for me, you know, just like a lot of my clients, you never could you could have diagnosed me with a different gut thing every week.

00;23;21;26 - 00;23;45;08

Mitch Webb

You know that. But. And when if you tried to treat me with supplements and treatments and it backfired, you know, my system couldn't handle the supplements. And, so with somebody like that, you know, we're going to hit it from multiple angles. We're going to work on the deep seated emotional repression, the unprocessed trauma. We're going to build capacity in the nervous system and learn to regulate.

00;23;45;10 - 00;24;06;20

Mitch Webb

At the same time, we're going to find a diet that's going to support you. A lot of times that looks like, simplifying the diet and doing more of like, a carnivore approach, but not for most people don't need the full on, meat and salt, more like me and fruit and root vegetables and, you know, certain vegetables and things like that.

00;24;06;20 - 00;24;42;23

Mitch Webb

Like we remove the, the, the, the more inflammatory foods so that the gut can get a break. It can heal as we heal. The problem is not the food. The problem is the inflammation and the constriction. You know, one thing that happens a lot and sessions is people, Burke, people fart in sessions. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's that's the that's the, the factual occasion, the factual actions coming out, you know, and one of my favorite jokes is, for, trauma is like farts, because if you hold it in, it hurts.

00;24;42;25 - 00;24;47;19

Mitch Webb

And if you let it out too quick, it'll clear. Right? Yeah.

00;24;47;20 - 00;24;49;15

Matt Howlett

I can't say I've heard that before.

00;24;49;17 - 00;25;08;24

Mitch Webb

But the moral of the story is we want to do little bits at a time. So, like, you come work with me, it's not like, hey, man, we're jumping into trauma. It's like, no, we are doing tiny little bits and we're going to focus on where you're at now. What's going on? What's the low hanging fruit? What's going to give you your biggest bang for the buck.

00;25;08;27 - 00;25;25;22

Mitch Webb

And that means some guys come running in knowing they need to do emotional work and they're ready and they've maybe they've done our range courses. Those are my favorite because they have weights and there's some guys that go, oh, dude, I'm so overwhelmed. I can't sleep at night and I my skin is horrible and I can't eat any food.

00;25;25;25 - 00;25;32;15

Mitch Webb

Yeah. And so, you know, we're going to we're going to do some different approaches. And everybody so individual it has to be done that way.

00;25;32;18 - 00;25;53;05

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Everybody's so individual. But the language is key. You have to know the words. You can't take ownership of something if you can't name it. Yeah I would say and that's especially true for men when it comes to the world of emotions. Women can jump into that so much easier, so much quicker process that so much faster than we can.

00;25;53;07 - 00;26;12;11

Matt Howlett

And we are, I would say, taught by society to not jump into that too much. And we have a limited, very limited vocabulary when it comes to emotions. Before we get into anything else, I just want to, let everybody know what that book is. I've read that. You've read that. You've mentioned it. By Bessel van der Kolk is the author.

00;26;12;14 - 00;26;30;09

Matt Howlett

Doctor from the Netherlands. Psychiatrist. The body keeps a score. Great book. And it's very easy to read. Give us a lot of illustrations from his own practice. What specific practices do you see, or do you, work with when it comes to the men that are coming to your clients?

00;26;30;12 - 00;26;52;20

Mitch Webb

Well, other than, like, the basics. So I'm going to just go over the basics real quick. Sure. Like this. And it's funny, I'm always surprised of how many people don't know the basics. The basics are going to be like hydration, you know, eating, hydration and minerals, eating real food, circadian health. Like, are you getting outside, right? Are you getting sun in your eyes in the morning?

00;26;52;20 - 00;27;13;28

Mitch Webb

Me blocking blue light at nighttime? Are you getting your bare feet on the ground and connecting with the earth? Are you connecting with nature? Right. You know, environmental stuff in the house, like Wi-Fi, can be a big problem. 5G, for you, turning your cell phone and off at nighttime, turn your Wi-Fi off at night. And then finding a diet that's that's conducive.

00;27;14;00 - 00;27;44;22

Mitch Webb

That's good for you. And then workout that, is not punishing, you know, so many of us are, for me, I was using exercise as a way to give myself, energy that was really more adrenaline and cortisol, because that's what was familiar growing up. And so if I didn't sleep, I do a hard work out and I, you know, go sit in a sauna for an hour and I then, you know, revving myself up and, wondering why I can't sleep at night.

00;27;44;24 - 00;28;05;00

Mitch Webb

So, so given that all those things are good or there may be a hybrid where we're doing some of that, well, now we're going to go into the emotional side of things and, and the nervous system really and I'm focused on building capacity. So the analogy I like to give that I got from Irene is like a swimming pool, right?

00;28;05;01 - 00;28;28;26

Mitch Webb

When pool, that's your nervous system. And there's all these beach balls and floaties in there. Right. And they're just kind of bouncing around and touching each other. And all of that is the sensation, the emotions, the symptoms that we're experiencing. Right? It's just it's overloaded. There's just too much in the nervous system to everything. Right. So we're, you know, kind of we're talking either we're they're really activated or we're shut down and we're cycling between areas.

00;28;28;26 - 00;28;52;11

Mitch Webb

We're not in our what we would call window of tolerance, where we feel good. So I'm not focused on, especially in the beginning, going in and removing a beach ball. Right. That would be, you know, a trauma that's overwhelming when that happens. We have to have capacity on board to know how to rest, how to take care of ourself.

00;28;52;14 - 00;29;13;23

Mitch Webb

It can be very dis regulating. And so instead of being a surgeon, I'm trying to grow the size of that swimming pool, just like in the gym. You want to build capacity to be able to go from squatting 135 pounds to 235 pounds. You're going to do that slowly over time, and you're going to grow your capacity.

00;29;13;26 - 00;29;31;07

Mitch Webb

Same thing in the nervous system happens right now. I don't have the capacity to handle the intensity of things that are below my net, right, that are in my body. So what do I do? I squeeze myself up into my head and I, I think my way to safety. I stay in my head and overthink. And that's where most of us live.

00;29;31;09 - 00;29;57;04

Mitch Webb

And so I want to build the capacity I want to and eventually regulation to where I'm not cycling between activated and shut down. I'm I'm staying more in a window of tolerance and the tools and the modalities that we use, are things like Feldenkrais. So Feldenkrais is a very slow form of movement, that is basically giving you an outlet or an input into the nervous system.

00;29;57;06 - 00;30;23;29

Mitch Webb

So it allows you to move really slowly and eventually by building, awareness with the body, it will start as we feel safe. It will give us old patterns, old sensations, memories, images, behaviors. And we can make new meanings out of these. Right? So that's that's Feldenkrais. I love that even for, post-workout as a way to bring tension out of the body.

00;30;24;06 - 00;30;25;16

Mitch Webb

It's so crazy.

00;30;25;16 - 00;30;26;28

Matt Howlett

I've never heard of that.

00;30;27;01 - 00;30;45;15

Mitch Webb

It's amazing. Guys, look it up as listening. You're trying to working out. Look it up. I used to be, you know, as you get past 30, 40 years old and you train a little bit different, you got to kind of be able to do a little bit of body work, take care of yourself and, you know, cranking and stretching on a muscle, it's going to go right back.

00;30;45;17 - 00;31;14;10

Mitch Webb

You know, you may at best nothing happens. At the worst, you hurt yourself. This is a neuro sensory, exercise. And it is fascinating to someone who's a lifetime athlete that I can lay on the floor and it would look like I'm not moving at all. But after 5 to 10 minutes, all the tension comes out of my body and this muscle that I've been stretching the shit out of for however long just lays down for me.

00;31;14;12 - 00;31;19;27

Mitch Webb

It's a so that's Feldenkrais. And then you heard more of like somatic experience.

00;31;19;29 - 00;31;20;20

Matt Howlett

Sure.

00;31;20;22 - 00;31;49;13

Mitch Webb

Yep. Experiencing combined with probably vagal theory. So a very robust understanding of different states of the nervous system, because that's a big part of, regulation and just knowing where you're at and, being able to communicate what's going on in your body and, you know, we use, some of the basics with this stuff would be orienting, learning to, to follow your impulse, learning how to follow your breath without trying to change it.

00;31;49;15 - 00;32;02;18

Mitch Webb

And, like the different organ work and things like that. But it starts with the basics, and it kind of builds out just like an exercise program. With start, you're building capacity more and more stuff comes up.

00;32;02;21 - 00;32;09;03

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Yes. It sounds, like I'd say mindfulness is a word that you would be interchangeable with what? You're.

00;32;09;06 - 00;32;10;13

Mitch Webb

Yeah. Yeah, it's.

00;32;10;13 - 00;32;14;11

Matt Howlett

It's at least the goal of a lot of this work. When you say being connected to your body.

00;32;14;13 - 00;32;16;02

Mitch Webb

Starts with awareness. Right.

00;32;16;05 - 00;32;38;07

Matt Howlett

Okay. What do you feel that that looks like? For guys like to be connected to the body because that's not, again, go back to words. That's not words that men I'd say would use very often. Like, you know, I have a a practice of meditation in the mornings to be connected to my body where I go out in my backyard and getting on bare ground or whatever it is, you know, you don't hear guys talk about that very often.

00;32;38;07 - 00;32;48;06

Matt Howlett

At least I don't. I didn't grow up with men around me that spoke like that, told me to the importance of doing that. Describe for me what does that, what that looks like.

00;32;48;08 - 00;33;07;09

Mitch Webb

Yeah. You know, we can we can do it right now. I mean, it's it's it's kind of what I was saying earlier with, the, the client in the boardroom, and it's it's learning to feel and, you know, I kind of want to go back to the beginning with me. You either come into this work in two ways.

00;33;07;11 - 00;33;30;27

Mitch Webb

You either feel too much. That's me. I felt everything acutely. I could feel either. And a hair on my head. Stand up, to my advantage and to. And to the my soft as well. I've had to learn not to feel as much. And then you also come in as you're shut down. You're more that functional. Freeze and and that's the I'm living in my head and I'm thinking, and this down here is numb.

00;33;30;29 - 00;34;01;05

Mitch Webb

And so you're going to start in different ways with different people. But one is just going to be orienting and bringing the senses into the moment feeling. And our feet on the ground feeling our butt in the chair, feeling our breath. It's being here now. Yeah. So two of our day is spent, you know, thinking of the worst possible thing that can happen, preparing for that, revving up your nervous system, some of these things that never happen, it's or it's, it's, you know, being fearful that something from the past is going to repeat itself.

00;34;01;07 - 00;34;25;25

Mitch Webb

Right. And so we're constantly bringing ourself back to the body to sense what's going on. And eventually we're building a thing called interception was just my ability to sense what's going on in my body, you know? And, that that comes in handy as we go deeper into this work. So if if I was working with someone, I would say, and they said, hey, I'm feeling anxious.

00;34;25;25 - 00;34;45;08

Mitch Webb

I would say, okay, how do you know that now? They'd say, well, I'm, I'm really uncomfortable. I'd say, okay, where do you feel that? And they say, oh, well, I don't know. What do you mean? I'm like, well, you know what's going on with your chest? Oh, my chest. It feels tight. My heart's beating fast.

00;34;45;11 - 00;35;04;07

Mitch Webb

I mean, take a deep breath. It's really uncomfortable to sit here, but we have to really slow things down to see that, it it's like I feel like shit. What do you mean? It's like, well, back up. And so it has it all starts with awareness. And so we would start with, can you feel your butt in your chair?

00;35;04;09 - 00;35;27;06

Mitch Webb

Right. And then eventually can you follow your impulse. And that one looks more like this is more my wife. I'm thinking of her. I'm throwing her under the bus on this podcast. But, she would be the one that's like, I've been all day at my my, office chair, and I haven't gone to the bathroom, or I didn't eat any food today.

00;35;27;09 - 00;35;44;01

Mitch Webb

And it's because they're focused on whatever they're doing. We're not paying attention to the body at all, so, I don't know. I need to rest. I don't know what I need to eat. I don't know what I need to drink. It's an urgent thing. Every time I go to the bathroom, because it's got to happen now, right?

00;35;44;01 - 00;36;07;25

Mitch Webb

And so what we would start by, go the bathroom, then you got to go to the bathroom, eat when you're hungry, drink when you're thirsty. And what the body does, it gets in a pattern of not letting us say these things. It's like, hey, if he's not going to listen, I'm just going to do whatever. And so once we start to pay attention, the body feels more safe and when stuff starts to come up.

00;36;07;27 - 00;36;30;28

Matt Howlett

Yeah. One of the biggest things that I like about what I would call mindfulness and that practice is being so connected to, to your body, to your own thoughts and feelings that you can, I would say, get what you want out of every moment. Like you're not always going to get what you want, but you can at least know what it is and go after it.

00;36;31;00 - 00;36;50;04

Matt Howlett

You know what I mean? Like, you can't control other people. So like, you know, you put a request out into the world, you go after something, you might not get it, but it is far better than being somewhat overwhelmed and then reactive, because I find that is the default for a lot of folks, especially guys, tends to default to anger.

00;36;50;04 - 00;37;17;17

Matt Howlett

We get very reactive in the moment. We get upset like we're basically we're hurt and we don't really want to talk about that. But we default. Yeah, we don't feel anything. Yeah. I was going to to tell you this short story before we got on call. Well, before we started the conversation here, I mentioned I'm in marketing and one of my clients, it's a husband, wife, psychologist team, and they've been just kind of getting out into the world of social media and putting content out there.

00;37;17;17 - 00;37;41;17

Matt Howlett

And he put up a couple different videos about different feelings. You talked about anger, for a few minutes, and it was my job to kind of make sure he knows how to moderate the comments and just kind of run the ad side of things. And, so for a while I was managing the comments and I was not surprised by what I saw, but disappointed, I would say at least 50%.

00;37;41;17 - 00;38;00;20

Matt Howlett

Definitely. Probably more than that. But I'll go with 50, 50% of the guys. Because that's what we were targeting. We're just basically shitting on what he was saying. Not simply disagreeing because they weren't providing an argument. It wasn't, you know, like, let's have a conversation. Let's have a debate. It's just like, oh, no, anger's anger's good.

00;38;00;20 - 00;38;29;07

Matt Howlett

If you're not angry every day, there's something wrong with you. If you are feeling hurt, then that's like, you know, I mean, everything that these guys could say just to basically push this aside. And what, he said in the video was so helpful, so informative, so educational. It wasn't really encouragement to do anyone specific thing. It was like, here, I'm a psychologist with like 50 plus years of experience, mostly working with men.

00;38;29;10 - 00;38;47;26

Matt Howlett

Let me just teach you something that I find has been very helpful in practice. And I kind of it's sad to to see that that's the response when really what we need on what you and I would want is for men to think about. You know, let's reflect on the last time that I was angry and what actually went on.

00;38;47;26 - 00;39;07;11

Matt Howlett

And where did I feel that in my body? And what do I even feel now? Because I'm probably carrying some of that. So I say all that because I'm curious what, your experience has been with that type of feedback. If you've had that, I'm assuming, yes, at some point. And and what you respond with.

00;39;07;13 - 00;39;36;23

Mitch Webb

No, no, that question, I always respond with thank you for sharing that. Yeah. So that's a good start. Yeah. Number one, nobody makes us feel anything. That's impossible. We feel because we are triggered if something is unresolved in us and it's been triggered, and so we feel something, and now we're reacting instead of having the.

00;39;36;25 - 00;40;01;09

Mitch Webb

So that's that's really fast, right? I have this guys talking about anger. Now I am pissed and I am talking shit. And I come anger like that. Right. Well if we slow that down well it's not. You just talked about some, you know, something that, triggered me. And so I had this master feeling, and now he's the bad guy because he's closest.

00;40;01;09 - 00;40;22;26

Mitch Webb

He said the thing. It's his fault because there's no self-awareness or connection to self to see, like, oh, man, that's that's my stuff. And that's something that I need to process. Right. And I also say this on the other side of that, there's also a lot of men with repressed anger that it wasn't. That's me.

00;40;22;28 - 00;40;29;18

Mitch Webb

It wasn't, allowed in my family unless I was on a football field. And so. Right. Specifically.

00;40;29;21 - 00;40;30;12

Matt Howlett

Yeah.

00;40;30;14 - 00;40;55;07

Mitch Webb

Yeah. And so I held in this anger and, I am learning to build capacity on how to let that out without clearing a room and shutting me down, because when I have so much rage in me from all of that, from not expressing it for 30, 40 years, that when if I'm not in a if I try to let too much out at one time, it can be overwhelming for my system.

00;40;55;09 - 00;41;23;24

Mitch Webb

And that's a lot of guys. That's a lot of people with chronic fatigue, gut issues. You know, we'll say underneath that healthy aggression, we need that healthy aggression that also is the main emotion for men is rage and anger. Right? So it can it can go both ways is what I'm trying to demonstrate. But when we learn how to let that that anger out in a healthy way, that's when our life force energy comes back.

00;41;23;24 - 00;41;36;08

Mitch Webb

That's when these guys that have chronic fatigue and they're not able to, they're to walked all over and work. They start setting boundaries and saying no. And they're a different person. Yeah, it comes back. So yeah.

00;41;36;11 - 00;41;50;27

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Before I let you go, what has been the most impactful practice for you? Right. Like very specific practical thing that you would do on a daily or weekly basis that has, brought the most change for you.

00;41;50;29 - 00;41;52;25

Mitch Webb

Guys.

00;41;52;28 - 00;41;54;20

Matt Howlett

Or even your favorite.

00;41;54;22 - 00;42;23;23

Mitch Webb

My favorite man. I've learned that that movement is really good for me. Like, movement is medicine for me. And I mean, I'm the guy that, CrossFit, you know, all the time to, you know, my mental health practice in the day was, stay for hours in the gym, and my rest was like, do, hour and a half hot yoga session and then go get an ice bath for ten minutes.

00;42;23;23 - 00;42;31;25

Mitch Webb

You know, that's and or and or, and add a 24 hour or 72 hour fasting to that. Right.

00;42;31;28 - 00;42;37;11

Matt Howlett

I'm feeling trauma in my body right now just for these days. That's a lot, man. That's crazy.

00;42;37;14 - 00;42;55;20

Mitch Webb

Oh, it is okay, I say, if you got stress, you hit it with more stress. But here's the thing, brother. That's where that's that's where I got that's where I felt at home, because that's what my home was growing up was adrenal cortisol and being on edge. And that's what felt good. I'm like, oh, I can I can deal with this, put some pressure on me and I'm good.

00;42;55;22 - 00;43;26;24

Mitch Webb

So what I've learned is this really slow, intentional movement. The best thing I can say would be like qigong. Qigong without Christ, doing, what I would call these up down classes. That's combining. It's combining Feldenkrais and Michigan. Maybe you could be thrown in there as well. You can do yoga without awareness and you can be competing with the person besides you and get hurt.

00;43;26;27 - 00;43;49;04

Mitch Webb

This is a little bit different. You're paying attention to yourself and you're moving extremely slowly, which takes a lot of capacity and regulation of the nervous system. And for someone who had so much activation like me, that I can't sit still, sitting and laying on the floor or sitting and talking to a therapist, I mean, that's cool. But like, I got to move.

00;43;49;07 - 00;44;16;27

Mitch Webb

And so when I learned that I could bring movement into this healing practice, it's a it's a really good outlet for many. And so now that I can take that awareness and paying attention to my body and I can take it into the gym and I can really work with aggression, and that's where I can I feel safe and I can I can put up you put 200 pounds on my back, and I get in touch with that anger and I push it and it feels great.

00;44;16;27 - 00;44;42;01

Mitch Webb

And you use a, a sound to express myself. You know, I can, I can, I can use the, I can use the calming afterwards to, to to get back into my body to, to regulate, to bring things down. And at nighttime, I do it before bed and I really charge up my or bring down my person, or, I guess, bring down the sympathetic get into a more parasympathetic.

00;44;42;03 - 00;44;55;06

Mitch Webb

Yep. And, now, you know, sleep is better. So that's that's one press one. That's one that jumps off the top of my head is movement and very slow movement, very different than pounding the pavement and doing the hardest workout we can. Yeah.

00;44;55;08 - 00;45;13;16

Matt Howlett

Yeah, that's that's a good one I think for guys to remember because I think, every dude probably understands, the importance of working out and training and, you know, but they probably lean towards heavy weights or CrossFit or whatever it's going to be, but they don't see the other side of that. That can also bring their systems down.

00;45;13;16 - 00;45;29;08

Matt Howlett

And, you know, whether it be yoga, meditative movement. Well, man, I appreciate your time and I hope you get, a lot more guys that are just catching it, having that light bulb moment and having that transformation that you've seen in your own life, it's a pleasure to chat with you.

00;45;29;11 - 00;45;33;29

Mitch Webb

Yeah, man, thank you for the opportunity. Love the work you're doing. And, I, you know, I wish you the best.

00;45;34;01 - 00;45;35;16

Matt Howlett

All right, man, thanks. Great to meet you.

00;45;35;23 - 00;45;36;15

Mitch Webb

Good to.

00;45;36;17 - 00;45;56;06

Matt Howlett

See you. Thank you for listening. I hope you found some value in this episode. If you have, be sure to share the podcast with a friend and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find the akkeri on socials, at the akkeri and on the web at the akkeri dot com