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The Wheelhouse Reorientation: Sustaining Coherence
Episode 1313 • 6th October 2026 • The Wheelhouse • Dr. Grant Chandler
00:00:00 00:41:52

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Coherence is easy to believe in when things are calm.The real test comes when the pressure arrives.

Urgency. Politics. Accountability. Fatigue. Competing priorities. Adult behavior. All of them have the potential to pull a system away from what it says matters most.

This is a Wheelhouse Reorientation—an earlier conversation we believe is worth hearing again in light of where the work is taking us now.

Over the past two Reorientations, we have followed a deliberate arc.

First, we returned to drift—the slow movement away from purpose, coherence, and the lived experience of students.

Then we moved from diagnosis to design and asked what it takes to build a more coherent system.

Now we get to the harder question:

How do you sustain coherence when the pressure is real?

Once again, Kathy Mohney, Michael Pipa, and Dr. Alicia Monroe put me in the guest chair and press on what disciplined coherence actually requires from leaders.

Most systems do not struggle to create a vision. They struggle to live that vision consistently over time. And that is where leadership becomes incredibly important.

When urgency takes over, leaders can become reactive. New priorities get added. Good ideas begin competing with one another. Activity starts masquerading as progress. And slowly, almost without realizing it, a system can begin drifting back toward fragmentation.

So this conversation asks us to look closely at the habits that help leaders protect coherence.

  • Can we continually reorient people toward purpose?
  • Can we protect clarity—even when that means saying no to something good?
  • Can we calibrate what we intended against what students are actually experiencing?
  • Can we understand how our own thinking and behavior change under pressure?
  • And can we remain human-centered when accountability, complexity, and competing demands make that difficult?

Coherence is not something we achieve once. It has to be continually protected, examined, recalibrated, and sustained. And perhaps the most important measure of coherence is not what adults say about the system. It is what students consistently experience inside of it.

That distinction matters.

Students experience fragmentation through unpredictability, inconsistent expectations, disconnected support, and systems that require them to navigate adult incoherence simply to receive the education they deserve.

That makes coherence more than an organizational issue. It makes it a leadership responsibility. And, ultimately, a human one.

A Few Things to Carry With You

  • Coherence does not sustain itself. It requires deliberate leadership over time.
  • Pressure reveals whether purpose and humanity are truly embedded in a system or simply part of its language.
  • Reactivity, competing priorities, and unchecked activity can gradually pull a system back toward fragmentation.
  • Coherent leaders continually reorient people toward purpose, protect clarity, calibrate intention against experience, and remain attentive to how pressure affects their own behavior.
  • Sometimes protecting coherence means saying no—even to good ideas.
  • And the strongest evidence of coherence is not consistency in what adults say. It is consistency in what students experience.

This third Reorientation brings us to the end of the original hiatus conversations, but not to the end of the question.

Because once we begin asking how schools and districts can build and sustain coherence, another possibility starts to emerge.

What might happen if they did not have to do that work alone?

That is where The Wheelhouse is headed next.

Coherence isn’t proven by what we build. It’s proven by what people consistently experience.

Follow Students Matter, LLC on Instagram and LinkedIn, and connect with Kathy Mohney, Michael Pipa, Dr. Alicia Monroe, and Dr. Grant Chandler individually on LinkedIn,

To learn more about the Students Matter Ecosystem, visit Students Matter and LearnHarbor.

Stay Oriented.

Transcripts

Speaker A:

We've talked about drift.

Speaker A:

We've talked about coherence.

Speaker A:

But eventually every conversation about coherence runs into the same can you actually sustain it when the pressure is real?

Speaker A:

That's where the work gets difficult.

Speaker A:

Not in the vision, not in the strategic plan.

Speaker A:

Not when everyone is sitting around the table agreeing about what matters under pressure.

Speaker A:

When urgency takes over, when another priority gets added, when politics, accountability, fatigue, and competing demands begin pulling the system in different directions.

Speaker A:

This is a wheelhouse reorientation, an earlier conversation we believe is worth hearing again in light of where the work is taking us now.

Speaker A:

Today, the Wheelhouse team presses me on what it actually takes to protect coherence over time.

Speaker A:

How do leaders keep purpose from being swallowed by urgency?

Speaker A:

How do we know whether coherence is actually reaching students?

Speaker A:

And what kind of leadership discipline keeps a system human when the pressure to fragment is everywhere?

Speaker A:

Coherence isn't built through inspiration alone.

Speaker A:

It's built and rebuilt through the choices leaders make every day.

Speaker A:

A new episode of the Wheelhouse begins right now.

Speaker A:

Welcome to the Wheelhouse, a Students Matter podcast where we navigate the intersection of leadership, learning, and humanity.

Speaker A:

I'm Dr. Grant Chandler, along with the Wheelhouse team of Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa, and Dr. Alicia Monroe.

Speaker A:

During this hiatus between seasons 13 and 14, we've been returning to three foundational conversations about the Students Matter ecosystem.

Speaker A:

In our first reorientation, we talked about drift, how systems can gradually move away from what they say matters.

Speaker A:

In our second, we moved from diagnosis to design and explored coherence, what it looks like when the important parts of a system actually reinforce one another rather than compete with one another.

Speaker A:

Today, we get to the part that may be hardest of all.

Speaker A:

Sustaining it.

Speaker A:

Most leaders already know how fragmentation is a problem.

Speaker A:

Most can describe what they want their schools and systems to become.

Speaker A:

But the real test comes when the pressure arrives.

Speaker A:

Urgency, fatigue, politics, accountability, competing priorities, adult comfort.

Speaker A:

Those are the moments when coherence either becomes part of how a system works or.

Speaker A:

Or begins disappearing.

Speaker A:

So Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa, and Dr. Alicia Munro put me back in the guest chair one more time and push on some really important questions.

Speaker A:

What does coherent leadership actually look like?

Speaker A:

How do leaders protect clarity without becoming rigid?

Speaker A:

How do we continually calibrate intention against what students are actually experiencing?

Speaker A:

And what happens when maintaining coherence requires us to say no, even to good ideas?

Speaker A:

The conversation was the culmination of the original hiatus series.

Speaker A:

Listening to it now, I hear something else in it, too.

Speaker A:

I hear the beginning of the question that comes next.

Speaker A:

Let's get oriented.

Speaker A:

Good morning.

Speaker A:

I'm Dr. Grant Chandler and you are listening to another episode of the Wheelhouse.

Speaker A:

I'm here with the amazing team, the best humans on the planet.

Speaker A:

Kathy mone, Michael Pipa.

Speaker A:

Dr. Alicia Monroe.

Speaker A:

Good morning.

Speaker A:

Good morning.

Speaker B:

That was the best.

Speaker C:

That was beautiful.

Speaker A:

We're getting good at that.

Speaker C:

Yeah, well, we probably should.

Speaker C:

It's been a minute.

Speaker A:

It has been a minute.

Speaker B:

Yes.

Speaker B:

Yes.

Speaker A:

Considering this is like the 124th episode or something like that.

Speaker B:

Yeah.

Speaker C:

You know, we had a little bit of practice.

Speaker C:

It's taken us a minute to become coherent.

Speaker C:

There I go again.

Speaker B:

There I go again.

Speaker B:

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker B:

Wow.

Speaker A:

We'll have to explain that in a minute.

Speaker A:

I'll bet.

Speaker A:

Well, hey, this again.

Speaker A:

What do we do on hiatus?

Speaker A:

We record more episodes of the Wheelhouse.

Speaker A:

This is the last hiatus episode before we take a short break and season 13 will drop on July 7th.

Speaker A:

So if you are listening today, stay tuned.

Speaker A:

This one drops on the 16th of June.

Speaker A:

You got just a couple of weeks before season 13 begins.

Speaker A:

And we'll be putting some things out there to remind you and to introduce the theme soon.

Speaker A:

But today, today we're wrapping up our hiatus series really talking about drift and coherence.

Speaker A:

And once again, I think I'm in the hot seat.

Speaker C:

You are.

Speaker C:

And you allowed us to come back and do it again.

Speaker C:

And it's gotten hotter and hotter each time.

Speaker A:

This is what happens when you work with brilliance.

Speaker A:

And you all are brilliant.

Speaker B:

And so are you.

Speaker A:

Oh, it's a love fest.

Speaker A:

Here it is.

Speaker C:

This is why we can't stay away from each other.

Speaker A:

Absolutely.

Speaker A:

Tuesday mornings never looked so good.

Speaker C:

So, Dr. Chandler, I'm going to get us started.

Speaker A:

Yes.

Speaker C:

I'm going to throw you in right away.

Speaker A:

Okay.

Speaker C:

So so far, we've talked about drift and we've talked about coherence.

Speaker C:

And here's the reality.

Speaker C:

Most leaders we already know, right?

Speaker C:

There's nobody out there that's saying we don't know that our systems are fragmented.

Speaker C:

We feel it.

Speaker C:

We experience it every day.

Speaker C:

So why is it so difficult to make that change and then sustain that coherence?

Speaker A:

We defined it.

Speaker A:

We said that coherence was when leadership instruction systems and student experience actually reinforce one another instead of competing with one another.

Speaker A:

And I love that definition.

Speaker A:

So I think the reality is the systems are just constantly under pressure.

Speaker A:

Right?

Speaker A:

There's this urgency, there's politics, there's competing priorities.

Speaker A:

There's fatigue, there's compliance demands, there's fear of conflict.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

And there's not just in many Places.

Speaker A:

It's not one of those.

Speaker A:

It's all of those just kind of surrounding the system.

Speaker A:

So I think it's really easy to talk about coherence in theory.

Speaker A:

And I know as we continue in this episode, we're going to talk about that protecting it.

Speaker A:

Protecting coherence is really the job of the leader.

Speaker D:

So, Grant, I'm wondering what is it that leaders forget or overlook or undervalue in their coherence efforts?

Speaker A:

I don't know that if it's anything they undervalue.

Speaker A:

I think what happens is they don't have the tools to hold tight when the pressure surrounds them.

Speaker A:

You know, they're good people trying to do good work.

Speaker A:

There are just so many demands, as the three of you know firsthand, right?

Speaker A:

How many demands there are.

Speaker A:

And I think if we don't have.

Speaker A:

If we don't have the tools to help us, then it's really easy, right?

Speaker A:

Really easy to just get pulled into a thousand different directions.

Speaker A:

I was talking to a principal yesterday and in a three minute conversation, he talked about all of those detractors, right?

Speaker A:

There was the demands of the testing situation and of that.

Speaker A:

There were parents showing up at his doorstep.

Speaker A:

There was the superintendent not wanting to know what he was doing.

Speaker A:

It was everything coming all together.

Speaker A:

And in those moments, without the tools to help you stay focused on what matters, I think it's too easy to be swayed because we respond, right?

Speaker A:

Educators are fix it people.

Speaker A:

We see a problem, we want to fix it.

Speaker A:

And I think what has happened is that we get stuck in the reactionary fix it mode when all of this stuff comes at us all the time.

Speaker B:

So business can really create this illusion of leadership.

Speaker B:

And we've discussed this on previous episodes.

Speaker B:

Busyness versus intentionality.

Speaker B:

So now we see that this activity is, is kind of masquerading as progress.

Speaker B:

Can you provide us with some solutions or tools that can help us really be intentional around aligning in a state of fragmentation?

Speaker A:

So one of the things that we talk about in tactical leadership is to know your operating system, right?

Speaker A:

And that is to know how you think deeply and how you respond.

Speaker A:

And in the second pathway or second experience in the pathway we talk about that we define like, okay, you're going to really need to know.

Speaker A:

You're going to need to know, well, how you operate, right?

Speaker A:

How does your brain function?

Speaker A:

How do you think and process?

Speaker A:

And we call that the operating system.

Speaker A:

And then you got to connect that to purpose, right?

Speaker A:

You've got to be.

Speaker A:

You've got to really know.

Speaker A:

That's why I said in the opening that it's the leader's job to protect the coherence of the system.

Speaker A:

And you can't do that if you don't have a really good understanding of A, how you operate and B, what you're, what the purpose is, where you're really headed.

Speaker A:

Because otherwise we masquerade ourselves with busyness, with chasing urgency, chasing noise.

Speaker A:

We get bombarded by internal and external pressure and in all of the things that compliance demands.

Speaker A:

So leaders have to, they have to make really hard decisions.

Speaker A:

And those decisions are about alignment, right?

Speaker A:

How do I keep the organization, whether it's I'm the district leader, whether I'm the building leader, whether I'm the classroom leader, how do I keep us moving in the direction that we need to go?

Speaker A:

How do I handle competing initiatives, how do I tolerate inconsistent expectations?

Speaker A:

How do I protect, you know, what happens when we protect adult competent comfort over student experience.

Speaker A:

The reality here is that every incoherent system is being protected by adult behavior somewhere.

Speaker A:

Every incoherent system is being protected by adult behavior somewhere.

Speaker A:

And sometimes we don't even know we're protecting it.

Speaker A:

Right?

Speaker A:

We don't even know we're protecting it.

Speaker A:

All season long on the Wheelhouse, we've been talking about the conditions that get in the way of the schools.

Speaker A:

We say we want drift, fragmentation, dehumanization, instructional erosion, future confusion, and the lack of alignment.

Speaker A:

But naming the problem isn't enough.

Speaker A:

The Students Matter ecosystem was built to help schools do something about it.

Speaker A:

Through tactical leadership, powerful student care, instructional excellence, future ready school schools, and guided learning.

Speaker A:

Through Learn harbor, we help educators create greater coherence, strengthen the human experience of school, and keep the work centered where it belongs on students.

Speaker A:

Because meaningful change doesn't come from adding one more initiative.

Speaker A:

It comes from getting the important things working together.

Speaker A:

The conversation, it starts in the wheelhouse, the work, it continues through Students Matter.

Speaker A:

Explore the Students Matter ecosystem and learn [email protected].

Speaker A:

We'd love to help you turn what matters into what happen.

Speaker C:

Yeah, you've talked about the fact that this kind of whirlwind is happening, right?

Speaker C:

All of these things are competing.

Speaker C:

And we started by the conversation today about saying that leaders, they know that.

Speaker C:

I mean, we feel it, we feel the exhaustion day after day, but don't necessarily then know what those adult behaviors are that can change that.

Speaker C:

So what is it?

Speaker C:

What does a coherent leader actually do?

Speaker A:

So that's a really good question.

Speaker A:

And as you were, as you were posing it, I also wanted to throw out there.

Speaker A:

I think this is why so many teachers leave the profession.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

It's not because they don't care either.

Speaker A:

It's because it's all overwhelming and no one's protecting coherence.

Speaker A:

And, you know, as much as I believe and say that teachers are leaders and they are, they don't have the influence of the larger.

Speaker A:

Of the larger organization, so they can't protect coherence.

Speaker A:

We need the building leaders and district leaders to do that.

Speaker A:

And, you know, I call that getting oriented.

Speaker A:

And one of the things that we have to get good at, which is what we do in tactical leadership, is leaders have to pause long enough to keep in mind, right.

Speaker A:

Instead of just reacting, they have to keep in mind what is it that we're trying to accomplish, what's the destination, what matters most, and thinking about what kind of work is going to get there.

Speaker A:

And sometimes that means that leaders have to say no to really good ideas.

Speaker A:

There is not a shortage of good ideas out there.

Speaker A:

There are a lot of brilliant people trying to make recommendations and tools and things to make it easier for leaders.

Speaker A:

And one of the things you have to do is we have to make sure that we know when to say no, even to a really good idea, because we can't do it all.

Speaker A:

How many times have you seen either yourself or other leaders that are just trying to do everything all at once, and it doesn't work right?

Speaker A:

And we don't get the immediate move that we wanted, so we add something to that.

Speaker A:

We add another layer, and we add another layer.

Speaker A:

So I think leaders also have to be mindful.

Speaker A:

That's why knowing your operating system, knowing where you're going, becomes really important, because sometimes you have to say, no, this is a great idea.

Speaker A:

This is a really good piece of work.

Speaker A:

We're not.

Speaker A:

This isn't for us right now, right?

Speaker A:

This isn't for us right now because it's not going to get us where we're going with the current situation that we're in.

Speaker A:

They also have to be able to calibrate relentlessly.

Speaker A:

They have to understand.

Speaker A:

They have to understand what's happening at all levels of the organization.

Speaker A:

I talk to a lot of superintendents, and they're good people.

Speaker A:

They are very good people, try to do really good work amidst intense pressure.

Speaker A:

But a lot of them, if you ask them and you start to drill down, they don't have a real good idea of what students experience.

Speaker A:

They know what the system's trying to do.

Speaker A:

They know what they're trying to do.

Speaker A:

They know what their principals are trying to do.

Speaker A:

They know what the expectations are, but they don't see it all the way to what students experience.

Speaker A:

And good leaders.

Speaker A:

Bringing coherence to the org, to the, to the organization.

Speaker A:

At whatever level, you look for consistency in what students experience, because what matters most is what students experience.

Speaker A:

So protecting coherence.

Speaker A:

Remember the definition of coherence.

Speaker A:

It's when instruction, leadership, and all these systems, all these pieces come together so that what we intend is actually what students experience.

Speaker A:

Well, if you're not looking, if you're not looking at what students actually experience, there's no way that you can protect coherence.

Speaker A:

Because coherence is about knowing what students actually experience.

Speaker A:

And the last thing I would say about that is under pressure.

Speaker A:

And what district, what system isn't currently under pressure?

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

Every single one of them is.

Speaker A:

But under pressure, we reveal whether humanity is truly foundational or if it's just decorative.

Speaker A:

Under pressure.

Speaker C:

Let's say that again.

Speaker C:

Yeah.

Speaker A:

Yes, ma', am.

Speaker A:

Absolutely.

Speaker A:

I'd be happy to say that again.

Speaker A:

And then let's talk about that.

Speaker B:

Right.

Speaker A:

Under pressure systems, schools, districts, classrooms, whatever level, they reveal whether humanity is foundational, it's really there at the core, or if it's merely decorative.

Speaker A:

And we know.

Speaker A:

We know based on what students experience.

Speaker A:

I'm sorry, Dr. Monroe.

Speaker B:

No, that's okay.

Speaker B:

I was going to say Grant.

Speaker B:

That's a. Dr. Chandler, that's a real.

Speaker B:

Because you see me leaning in.

Speaker B:

So you know we have that conversation, right?

Speaker B:

Yes, ma'.

Speaker B:

Am.

Speaker B:

All right.

Speaker B:

That's a real powerful statement.

Speaker B:

So as I was churning and processing everything that you just eloquently presented, I reflected on my role as a former principal of a high school, a former assistant superintendent, and there are habits of leadership that were just organic and authentic to my being.

Speaker B:

One thing is that coherence and alignment were sacred space that was non negotiable.

Speaker B:

But that's a heavy lift because you're constantly fighting and pushing against barriers to maintain that sacred space so that you can truly achieve a real culture of learning and growth.

Speaker B:

Student and educator experience where they thrive, not just exist, and in some cases barely exist.

Speaker B:

Can you talk about some of those leadership habits?

Speaker B:

Because I know you elevate them in tactical leadership that leaders must consider sacred and non negotiable in order to move the needle.

Speaker A:

So I think one of the things that I just published, the second course, which is the cognitive architecture of tactical leadership, and one of the things that we, that I say over and over there is that you have to Tactical leaders have to really be able to see the landscape.

Speaker A:

They have to be able to see what's really happening underneath, what is visible.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

Oftentimes, the real story isn't what you can actually see and observe.

Speaker A:

There's undercurrent.

Speaker A:

There's all sorts of things happening under the surface.

Speaker A:

So they have to be able to see, they have to be able to.

Speaker A:

To interpret accurately what the landscape is.

Speaker A:

And then they have to figure out how to bring themselves into that equation.

Speaker A:

And so I think one of the things that becomes really important is that we teach tactical leaders how to pause.

Speaker A:

You don't have to respond immediately.

Speaker A:

I mean, there are emergencies where you have to respond immediately.

Speaker A:

Right?

Speaker A:

But there are things that you need to understand better first.

Speaker C:

Right?

Speaker A:

And you don't just make a decision and go, but you really got to read the landscape.

Speaker A:

You got to orient.

Speaker A:

You've got to think about the possible moves that you could make.

Speaker A:

And you also have to then be able to read the terrain.

Speaker A:

Like, okay, so maybe this is a great decision.

Speaker A:

This solves the problem.

Speaker A:

But is this okay for my people?

Speaker A:

Can they do this?

Speaker A:

Can they do this?

Speaker A:

Are they ready for this?

Speaker A:

Is this going to be a huge leap for them?

Speaker A:

Is this going to push them over the brink?

Speaker A:

Because in reality, right, What.

Speaker A:

The decisions that we make, they get brought to fruition by other people.

Speaker A:

We got to make sure that we can read the human terrain.

Speaker A:

And then, of course, we have to be able to see all the way through to what.

Speaker A:

What students are going to experience as a result of those decisions.

Speaker A:

So I think we, again, we try to.

Speaker A:

We try to give these leaders all of these tools so that it's not so overwhelming to do all of that and that you can do it relatively quickly.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

And not just, you know, be staring off into space trying to figure it all out.

Speaker A:

We have tools to help you do all of that.

Speaker A:

But I think that one of the things that we.

Speaker A:

That leaders don't do is pause long enough to really.

Speaker A:

To really think through all of that before they make a move.

Speaker A:

Because the pressure's on.

Speaker A:

Pressure's on.

Speaker B:

Right.

Speaker A:

You got somebody bugging you for something immediately.

Speaker D:

Dr. Chandler, it sounds also like living inside the process of coherence is an obligation that schools really have to invest in the development of student voice.

Speaker D:

Is that accurate?

Speaker A:

It's absolutely accurate.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

And not only do we need to listen to student voice, we need to build a system with student voice.

Speaker A:

We have to remember that in order to stop hurting students, we have to stop doing things to them.

Speaker A:

We Got to do things with them.

Speaker A:

Some of the best work is designed with students.

Speaker A:

They may not have the degree.

Speaker A:

They may not have the technical language for what we're doing.

Speaker A:

They may not understand all the state laws and all the state mandates.

Speaker A:

They don't need to.

Speaker A:

They don't need to.

Speaker A:

That's not where they live.

Speaker A:

But they can tell you with 100% confidence, they can tell you what's working for them, what's not working for them, and what they need.

Speaker A:

A district can't bring coherence to its system without embracing student voice and doing that work with them.

Speaker C:

And that the significance of all, you know, so you've.

Speaker C:

You've used this.

Speaker C:

Leaders, you know, with, you know, being plural.

Speaker C:

So really understanding, and we've talked about this multiple times, that all of that work, that coherence that you're talking about, and understanding that the.

Speaker C:

The leader, oftentimes the superintendent within a district having those skills and understanding alone isn't going to ensure that there's coherence across the district.

Speaker C:

Right.

Speaker C:

Or the organization.

Speaker C:

So really knowing that it takes a team of leaders at whatever level within that district or organization to be able to ensure the coherence.

Speaker C:

Because each of us, regardless of our role in the district, feels those pressures, feels those.

Speaker C:

The need to respond.

Speaker C:

All of those pieces that you've talked about, and if we're all acting with a sense of urgency and responding and not pausing, then with their.

Speaker C:

Obviously, then the.

Speaker C:

The incoherence is.

Speaker C:

Is happening.

Speaker C:

So even when you talked about this pressure of making these decisions, and I was thinking about money being thrown at districts, you know, so if you do this, then you get this pot of money if you do that, you know, and knowing that those.

Speaker C:

Those pressures are.

Speaker C:

Are real.

Speaker C:

So really thinking about the real, you know, the reality of what.

Speaker C:

What's happening in districts and knowing that if we don't pause, if we don't listen to Stu.

Speaker C:

To our students, then the cost of incoherent adult systems is real.

Speaker C:

So what.

Speaker C:

What that looks like and what happens.

Speaker C:

So as we're all.

Speaker C:

All of these competing efforts, all of these adult behaviors that are incoherent, what's happening to students inside of this.

Speaker A:

So what you'll see.

Speaker A:

And then.

Speaker A:

Well, I'm gonna go back to Alicia in just a moment, but if students are living in incoherent systems, experience unpredictability, they have no idea what.

Speaker A:

They have no idea what's coming next.

Speaker A:

There's inequity, there's inconsistent expectations for a lot of different reasons.

Speaker A:

Some of Them are really dark.

Speaker A:

Why we have inconsistent expectations, right?

Speaker A:

Because then you bring in all, you know, we bring in.

Speaker A:

We bring individual people's biases, right, and prejudice into that.

Speaker A:

And we know that children are marginal in school.

Speaker A:

So then you bring in inconsistent expectations and all of that ugliness that's there.

Speaker A:

Disconnected support, performative innovation.

Speaker A:

They experience what they call.

Speaker A:

Right.

Speaker A:

They experience being herded like a bay ole group of cattle toward whatever finish line it is.

Speaker A:

They don't experience.

Speaker A:

They don't experience the opposite of that.

Speaker B:

So we had Dr. Rhonda Sembli, who was a principal of a middle, middle school during our season.

Speaker B:

And to understand the burden and the weight of that job is unbelievable because she does empower student voice, which means she is also an advocate for what is best for students and she wants her teachers to thrive.

Speaker B:

But as Michael talked about it, there's a system within a system.

Speaker B:

So her middle school is a subsystem of what she envisions to be excellence empowered by a participatory practice where everyone is democratic in how that is run.

Speaker B:

And she actually holds the weight of that and she knows what she has to decide on.

Speaker B:

But then she does give pieces away.

Speaker B:

But the overarching system is not shaped like that.

Speaker B:

It's traditional in its status quo.

Speaker B:

And the exhaustion doesn't come necessarily from the work to move her vision forward.

Speaker B:

It comes from the fact that she literally has to put guardrails up against a system that tries to taint the vision.

Speaker B:

Her vision is from moving forward for participatory democratic practice that she would like to maintain within her school.

Speaker B:

So it's.

Speaker B:

It's the weight that come from the act of doing the work itself.

Speaker B:

It comes from being guardrail towards perturbations that could actually hit the substance.

Speaker A:

So she's fighting.

Speaker A:

She's fighting for her destination to achieve her North Star.

Speaker B:

She's fighting because that is her vision, that is her goal, that is her third eye, that is her P space.

Speaker B:

And this is real in so many different spaces, whether we're face to face, whether we're virtual, whether we're sitting in higher ed classrooms.

Speaker B:

It's a subsystem of this, this culture of learning and growth that's transformational and transformative in its practice.

Speaker B:

That is sitting within a traditionally historic status quo system that is up and down rather than horizontal.

Speaker B:

And I wanted us to talk about this.

Speaker B:

That was a great thought, Kathy, that you put forward, and it just prompted me to want to add this piece.

Speaker A:

So think about, right, think about what happens when we said earlier, when students experience incoherence, right?

Speaker A:

Incoherence, the inequity, the different expectations, inconsistent expectations, inconsistent support.

Speaker A:

So ideally districts.

Speaker A:

And again, this is an ideal world, right?

Speaker A:

Ideally districts would do this work together.

Speaker A:

We really wanted to accelerate and we really wanted to.

Speaker A:

We really wanted students to experience the things that we all say we want students to experience.

Speaker A:

Then we would do this systemically.

Speaker A:

All of our leaders in an organization would be tactical leaders.

Speaker A:

We would be looking at the entire ecosystem and thinking about how do we do this work so that we actually get to that destination and that North Star for each and every student.

Speaker A:

Think of the energy that it takes when we have to fight.

Speaker A:

All of that energy takes energy away from providing coherence in ability.

Speaker A:

That's part of the drift.

Speaker A:

That's part of the drift, right?

Speaker A:

Resisting some of that work because you're trying to stay true to your North Star, right?

Speaker A:

That's why the importance of having coaches and people like us to support, I think are so important to the work because amazing people like Ron Disemle can get pulled away into a thousand different pieces really easily, right?

Speaker A:

And the demands of that job are tough, especially in a system where you're trying to go one way and perhaps the district is sending, you know, is perpetuating the status quo.

Speaker A:

I don't work with them, so I don't know that.

Speaker A:

But that's what happens in a lot of places, right?

Speaker A:

Where you've got somebody trying to do this work and trying to head toward how they've defined true north to be.

Speaker A:

And then you have working in a larger system that's taxing.

Speaker C:

Taxing is a great word.

Speaker C:

I'm feeling pretty heavy hearted over here thinking about all of this, Grant.

Speaker C:

I'm feeling like, whew, you know, the struggle is real.

Speaker A:

The struggle is real.

Speaker C:

You know, every one of our listeners, I'm sure, is thinking, yes, yes, yes,.

Speaker A:

That's me, that's me, that's me.

Speaker C:

But there's.

Speaker C:

There's hope, right?

Speaker C:

There's hope there.

Speaker C:

There's hope.

Speaker C:

And you've, you've been talking about this during our, our hiatus and this is our last episode during this time.

Speaker C:

So for the people listening who are thinking all of this in maybe in the same point and during this episode of like, okay, I'm, I'm it, I get it, this resonates.

Speaker C:

But where do, where do they begin?

Speaker C:

What does the support actually look like inside of this ecosystem that, you know, you've talked about?

Speaker C:

Tell us about the hope that is that exists, sir.

Speaker A:

Okay, so before I talk about hope, I just want to throw out three things really quickly.

Speaker A:

And that is.

Speaker A:

The pressure's real, right?

Speaker A:

We know.

Speaker A:

We know that coherence requires discipline.

Speaker A:

We know that.

Speaker A:

We know that the system will drift naturally, right?

Speaker A:

So the natural tendency is that the system is going to drift, right, no matter what.

Speaker A:

And we also know that leadership is moral work.

Speaker A:

It's really hard, and it's really important.

Speaker A:

It's really.

Speaker A:

So what we realized, right?

Speaker A:

And now I'm talking about the we here in this room, in this space, we realized pretty quickly that coherence matters and that the support structures for leaders who are trying to do this work really matters, right?

Speaker A:

If it's so easy to be pulled into 10,000 different directions, how do we help people?

Speaker A:

Because you can't stop the school day, you can't stop the school year.

Speaker A:

It all goes quickly.

Speaker A:

So how do we do that?

Speaker A:

So we realized that our support structures for leaders had to be coherent as well.

Speaker A:

You can't bring coherence and support coherence if you aren't coherent yourself.

Speaker A:

So what did we do here at Students Matter?

Speaker A:

First, we built the wheelhouse.

Speaker A:

This is where we talk about all these issues.

Speaker A:

This is a support.

Speaker A:

We put the.

Speaker A:

We bring these episodes to you to support you and to help you.

Speaker A:

To help you process what's happening in your district.

Speaker A:

These are the stories, right?

Speaker A:

We bring.

Speaker A:

We bring this work publicly so that you have.

Speaker A:

You have friends at the wheelhouse, right, who can help you through dialogue, partnership, and orientation work.

Speaker A:

We also built Learn harbor, which is a place for guided learning and development.

Speaker A:

This is a place where you can go and you're like, hey, I want to know more about this tactical leadership thing.

Speaker A:

I want to learn more about it.

Speaker A:

Where are all these tools and resources that you're talking about to make my job easier?

Speaker A:

What is this thing with powerful student care or instructional excellence or the invisible backpack, or what are all these things you keep talking about, right?

Speaker A:

Where do I learn more about that?

Speaker A:

So we built Learn harbor as a place for you to get that support, right?

Speaker A:

Whether you come as a team or you come on your own, we can surround you with the tools and resources that you need to help you do that work.

Speaker A:

And then students matter.

Speaker A:

The whole ecosystem is there because we believe coherence.

Speaker A:

In order to bring coherence to the organization, we need to think about tactical leadership.

Speaker A:

We need to think about leadership in a way that's purposefully trying to bring coherence to the work.

Speaker A:

Clarity, precision, humanity.

Speaker A:

We bring powerful student care.

Speaker A:

How does every student come to believe that they are distinctive and irreplaceable?

Speaker A:

What does instructional excellence look like?

Speaker A:

What does instructional innovation look like that honors the whole child, honors the whole educator, honors really powerful, innovative instructional design that includes AI.

Speaker A:

How do we do that in a way that brings joy filled learning experiences to students so that we're connecting leadership, care, instruction.

Speaker A:

And then what does that all look like in a future where we're trying to create future ready schools where humanity is the center.

Speaker A:

Right, where humanity is the center.

Speaker A:

And so those aren't separate projects.

Speaker A:

We believe they're interconnected and that they all work together to develop the same belief system.

Speaker A:

So that I hope, brings hope to educators.

Speaker C:

Your final thoughts in regard, you know, the last episode within this three part hiatus series.

Speaker C:

So leave us with some hope.

Speaker A:

So this isn't about perfection.

Speaker A:

It's not about being flawless in our implementation and we gotta be perfect.

Speaker A:

It's about creating systems, districts, buildings and classrooms that are willing to orient toward humanity, that are willing to recognize the power of what students experience.

Speaker A:

Around humanity, around purpose, around continuously recalibrating and making sure we know where we are and where we're going and where systems refuse to allow Drift.

Speaker A:

That coherence is not built in moments of inspiration, right?

Speaker A:

So hopefully you're listening and you're all inspired, right?

Speaker A:

Like, oh, wow, I want that.

Speaker A:

I want that for my students, I want that for my educators, I want that for everybody.

Speaker A:

I want that for my leaders.

Speaker A:

But that's.

Speaker A:

And I'm thrilled, right?

Speaker A:

Absolutely.

Speaker A:

Because it starts with some inspiration.

Speaker A:

It starts with some good feelings and thinking about where you want to go.

Speaker A:

But it's really about the daily discipline of staying oriented to what matters most.

Speaker A:

And what matters most is humanity.

Speaker A:

And what matters most is what students experience.

Speaker A:

And so I say that's what students matter is here to help you do, to bring coherence to that work.

Speaker A:

My thanks again to Kathy Mone, Michael Pipa and Dr. Alicia Munro for leading this conversation and for taking me out of the host chair for all three of these conversations.

Speaker A:

Listening to them now again, I think the progression really matters.

Speaker A:

First we named Drift.

Speaker A:

Then we talked about designing for coherence.

Speaker A:

And today we confronted the harder truth.

Speaker A:

Coherence does not sustain itself.

Speaker A:

Good intentions won't protect it.

Speaker A:

A strategic plan won't protect it.

Speaker A:

Even a compelling vision won't protect it.

Speaker A:

Coherence has to be continually tended to by leaders who, who are willing to reorient people toward purpose, protect clarity, examine what the system is actually producing, and make difficult choices when the work begins to fragment.

Speaker A:

And ultimately, the evidence of coherence isn't what adults say about the system.

Speaker A:

It is what students consistently experience inside of it.

Speaker A:

That may be the idea from this conversation that matters most to me right now.

Speaker A:

Once you begin thinking about coherence that way, another question naturally emerges.

Speaker A:

How do we help more schools, more districts do this work not as isolated organizations, but as part of something larger?

Speaker A:

How might they learn together, reorient together, build evidence together, and even help one another sustain this work over time?

Speaker A:

That question did not belong to the original three part series, but it belongs now to where the work is taking us.

Speaker A:

So our next episode will not be another reorientation.

Speaker A:

It's going to be something new.

Speaker A:

A Wheelhouse hiatus special.

Speaker A:

From ecosystem to Alliance.

Speaker A:

We're going to talk about why the students matter alliance is emerging, what we believe it could make possible, and why this feels like the next warranted move in the work.

Speaker A:

For now, I'm going to leave you with this.

Speaker A:

Coherence isn't proven by what we build.

Speaker A:

It's proven by what people consistently experience.

Speaker A:

Stay oriented.

Speaker A:

We'll see you next week for a brand new episode of the Wheelhouse.

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