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Selling a product people don't know they need - with Iain Moore - BGreater Shoes
Episode 1493rd February 2023 • Bring Your Product Idea to Life • Vicki Weinberg
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Today I'm talking with Iain Moore from BGreater Shoes. BGreater Shoes design and sell affordable kids foot friendly shoes which are designed to allow children’s feet to grow, develop and move more naturally than most high street brands, whilst importantly looking after parents wallets and time.

Iain and I discussed why he set up BGreater Shoes, and the particular challenges of designing and manufacturing shoes. Iain explained what barefoot shoes are, how they differ from normal shoes, and the benefits to children’s health and development. From how a Dragon’s Den episode inspired him to set up his own business, to how to develop a marketing strategy for a product people don’t know they need, it is a great episode with lots of thoughtful advice and suggestions.

Listen in to hear Iain share:

  • An introduction to herself and her business (01:14)
  • What inspired him to start BGreater Shoes (01:24)
  • What barefoot shoes are, and how they differ from regular shoes (03:53)
  • The detrimental impact some shoes can have on feet and the body (05:23)
  • The process of designing and creating the shoes (09:11)
  • Working with a freelance designer (11:05)
  • Getting the shoes manufactured (14:32)
  • Ensuring that the production costs were kept down so that the shoes are affordable (15:35)
  • The importance of mindset, and positivity in making his business successful (17:56)
  • Working with parents and children to get feedback on the shoes (20:07)
  • The challenges of educating people as to the benefit of barefoot shoes when they have not heard of them (23:48)
  • Making your customers lives as simple as possible (27:10)
  • Iain’s own children’s feedback on the shoes (31:01)
  • Ensuring shoe sizing is correct (32:40)
  • His number one piece of advice for other product creators (42:50)

USEFUL RESOURCES:

BGreater Shoes Website

BGreater Shoes Twitter

BGreater Shoes Facebook

BGreater Shoes Instagram

Iain Moore Linked In

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Mentioned in this episode:

This month’s podcast episodes are proudly sponsored by my own book - Bring Your Product Idea to Life

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Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to the Bring Your Product Ideas to Life podcast.

Speaker:

This is the podcast for you if you're getting started selling

Speaker:

products, or if you'd like to create your own product to sell.

Speaker:

I'm Vicki Weinberg, a product creation coach and Amazon expert.

Speaker:

Every week I share friendly, practical advice, as well as inspirational

Speaker:

stories from small businesses.

Speaker:

Let's get started.

Vicki Weinberg:

Today I'm talking with Iain Moore from B Greater Shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

B Greater Shoes designs and sell affordable kids foot friendly shoes,

Vicki Weinberg:

which are designed to allow our children's feet to grow, develop,

Vicki Weinberg:

and move more naturally than most high street brands, while importantly

Vicki Weinberg:

looking after parents' wallets and time.

Vicki Weinberg:

So, Ian and I spoke a lot about shoes, as as you might have guessed.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, and we also spoke about what barefoot shoes mean.

Vicki Weinberg:

Why this is important for children, as well as a lot about the process

Vicki Weinberg:

of designing a a children's shoe.

Vicki Weinberg:

I really hope you enjoyed this conversation with Ian.

Vicki Weinberg:

As always, I think there's so much you'll be able to take away from it,

Vicki Weinberg:

and I would love to introduce you.

Vicki Weinberg:

So, hi Ian.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much for being here.

Iain Moore:

Hi, how are you doing?

Vicki Weinberg:

Really good.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

Very excited to talk to you today.

Vicki Weinberg:

Can we start by you please give an introduction to yourself and

Vicki Weinberg:

your business and what you sell.

Iain Moore:

Okay.

Iain Moore:

I'm Iain Moore.

Iain Moore:

I am the founder of B Greater Limited, and we make affordable kids barefoot shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Amazing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

So let's start right at the beginning, Iain, with what inspired

Vicki Weinberg:

you to create barefoot kids shoes?

Vicki Weinberg:

What was, what was kind of the catalyst for you thinking, okay, this is a

Vicki Weinberg:

business that, that I'm going to start?

Iain Moore:

So it's a bit of a long, long answer really.

Iain Moore:

But I'd say the shortest way is I was the customer.

Iain Moore:

And there was, there was nothing there in my budget.

Iain Moore:

Basically, I was buying barefoot shoes for my children.

Iain Moore:

And the main sort of household brand, if you like, is, uh, Vivo Barefoot, who

Iain Moore:

they do fantastic things, uh, with shoes.

Iain Moore:

They have absolutely paved the way with sort of spreading work

Iain Moore:

the word about barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

But they, they're, they're a bit above my price point.

Iain Moore:

I mean, the, the average sort of starting price for some of the children's shoes

Iain Moore:

is about 75 pounds, which I think is out of a lot of people's budget.

Vicki Weinberg:

Absolutely.

Vicki Weinberg:

And especially as, you know, anyone with kids know their feet change

Vicki Weinberg:

and grow so quickly that you can be buying new shoes on like a, not

Vicki Weinberg:

a monthly basis, but it, you know, if it's early, can feel like that.

Vicki Weinberg:

So yeah, I would say that's beyond a, a lot of people's budgets.

Iain Moore:

Yeah, definitely.

Iain Moore:

So it was one of the things which we thought was important was, you know,

Iain Moore:

why we are focusing on affordable kids shoes and not the adult.

Iain Moore:

One, there's already a lot of people doing adult shoes, but also I do

Iain Moore:

think that, you know, we should spend a bit more on shoes for adults, have

Iain Moore:

fewer pairs, but look after them and they should last us a good few years.

Iain Moore:

Whereas, you know, with the best will in the world, you can say to your five

Iain Moore:

year old, oh, these are some new shoes.

Iain Moore:

And look after them when you go to school and the chances are they are going

Iain Moore:

to come back and they've been pretty battered no matter what you say to them.

Iain Moore:

So I don't really see, for a lot of people that spending 75 pounds ish on a,

Iain Moore:

a pair of shoes is really a viable option.

Iain Moore:

So I wanted to create something, uh, a lot better than what I could find,

Iain Moore:

which was out there and I had, I'd always had problems with my feet as a

Iain Moore:

kid growing up and was kind of put in that standard thing of, you know, go to

Iain Moore:

Clarks, get your feet measured, you need more support, you need put your feet

Iain Moore:

in the right place, and all of this.

Iain Moore:

I ended up even having to had, uh, have orthotics put in my shoes

Iain Moore:

and it never fixed the problem.

Iain Moore:

Which then led me onto Barefoot Shoes and then ended up wanting, you know,

Iain Moore:

the best foot health for my children.

Iain Moore:

Which then how I, why I started then getting them barefoot shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I'm going to go a little bit even further back if that's okay.

Vicki Weinberg:

So would you mind telling us, well, firstly, what barefoot shoes are for

Vicki Weinberg:

anyone who, who hasn't heard of them?

Vicki Weinberg:

And then second, secondly, what the difference is between a

Vicki Weinberg:

barefoot shoe and a regular shoe.

Vicki Weinberg:

Just so people get an idea of why it was that you were so keen for your

Vicki Weinberg:

children to be wearing barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

Cool.

Iain Moore:

So I'd say there's three main sort of points with, uh, a barefoot shoe is

Iain Moore:

one, you have a nice wide toe box so that the toes can, you know, wiggle and

Iain Moore:

they've got room to grow in, you know, a more natural shape and things like that

Iain Moore:

rather than, you know, ended up growing so that they end up looking like, uh,

Iain Moore:

the shoes that they're actually sort of wearing throughout their childhood.

Iain Moore:

The other point is that it's a z what's called a zero drop shoe,

Iain Moore:

so that the height at the toes and the heels is the same height, so

Iain Moore:

you don't have any elevated heel.

Iain Moore:

And they should also be a really thin and flexible sole.

Iain Moore:

So you can get that sensory feedback from, from the ground as you're walking.

Iain Moore:

You know, basically wearing, you know, is the, the, the more is less kind of

Iain Moore:

concept, if you like, of, of, of shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

See, I've worn barefoot trainers for running for quite a long time, um,

Vicki Weinberg:

because I read about the advantages of you being able to feel the floor

Vicki Weinberg:

underneath your feet and yeah, and all of that kind of thing.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'll be honest, I've never considered it for sort of day to

Vicki Weinberg:

day walking around, which sounds crazy when you think about it.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, I've saw, I was, remember I was looking on your Instagram and I saw

Vicki Weinberg:

this really shocking image and I'm going to recommend, we're going to

Vicki Weinberg:

link your Instagram in the show notes.

Vicki Weinberg:

I recommend everyone goes to show it with like a issue where you could see a

Vicki Weinberg:

child's foot in bird, a regular shoe and then a child, but inside a barefoot shoe.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I was really quite shocked at how compressed particularly the toe

Vicki Weinberg:

area is in a sort of regular shoe.

Vicki Weinberg:

That was quite shocking to me.

Iain Moore:

Yeah, I mean, that, that image is, you know, just the, the,

Iain Moore:

um, it's a picture of my son's feet.

Iain Moore:

It was a pair of shoes which we had, which we'd bought from a, a local

Iain Moore:

shop and yeah, just a, a pair of ours.

Iain Moore:

And we cut out the, the inside, took a photo and I think, you know, what's that?

Iain Moore:

You know, picture paints a thousand words.

Iain Moore:

Um, and all of that stuff.

Iain Moore:

Um, I mean, I think everyone would agree that bad footwear can damage feet.

Iain Moore:

I, you know, I think that's, you know, a lot of people would agree

Iain Moore:

with that, but it's then trying to work out and people don't fully agree

Iain Moore:

on then what is good for your feet.

Iain Moore:

If, if, you know, if we know that bad shoes hurt your feet,

Iain Moore:

then what is the good option?

Iain Moore:

And that's where I think a lot of people, and you know, more people

Iain Moore:

are realizing actually sort of barefoot shoes are the way forwards.

Iain Moore:

I would say there with some physios and you know, sort of chiropractors

Iain Moore:

and doctors, there can be a bit of a split about whether barefoot

Iain Moore:

shoes are a good thing or not.

Iain Moore:

But generally that discussion is always around adults because they'll say,

Iain Moore:

you know, for example, like yourself, you know, you, you've spent sort of

Iain Moore:

20, 30, 40 years or you know, whatever work wore wearing traditional shoes,

Iain Moore:

and then suddenly, you know, in your thirties or or whatever you, you then

Iain Moore:

decide, oh, actually, you know, I, I've, like you, you know yourself.

Iain Moore:

I've read this article, I'm going to start running in barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

Some, you know, physios and chiropractors might say that actually that could end up

Iain Moore:

causing more problems than it could fix.

Iain Moore:

And my whole belief around this is why are we adapting?

Iain Moore:

Of wearing shoes, which put our feet in unnatural positions.

Iain Moore:

Why not just let children's feet grow, as I'm sure most parents

Iain Moore:

would want, their children's grow is being healthy and unrestricted.

Iain Moore:

Um, and that's, that's kind of what we do.

Vicki Weinberg:

And now of interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I will move on to talk more about creating your shoes in a minute, but

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm just, I just out of interest, do you wearing, or do you know whether

Vicki Weinberg:

wearing shoes that are perhaps a bit restrictive, whether it has any impact

Vicki Weinberg:

on anything other than your feet?

Vicki Weinberg:

So I can imagine it could potentially impact maybe your posture or your spine.

Vicki Weinberg:

I, I don't, I don't know this, I'm just thinking.

Iain Moore:

Definitely.

Iain Moore:

I mean, oh, no, no, no.

Iain Moore:

I mean it.

Iain Moore:

Um, your feet are the, you know, foundations, you

Iain Moore:

know, to your, to your body.

Iain Moore:

And if there's something wrong with the foundations, you know, with your

Iain Moore:

house, then everything, you know, cracks are going to appear everywhere else.

Iain Moore:

So it'll all just go up that kinetic chain.

Iain Moore:

It'll, you know, you could then end up with, you know, problems

Iain Moore:

with your ankles, your knees, your hips, your spine, the lot.

Iain Moore:

Um, not, I, I will also be honest with people.

Iain Moore:

You know, I love barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

I'm obviously a big advocate, but I'm not trying to say that it is a panacea that,

Iain Moore:

you know, if you wear bare shoes, barefoot shoes, it is going to stop you getting

Iain Moore:

any knee problems or any back problems.

Iain Moore:

You know, I'm actually trying to be really honest, as a brand, we do think

Iain Moore:

that there's benefits, maybe not for everyone, but the majority of people,

Iain Moore:

I think our shoes will be beneficial.

Iain Moore:

But yeah, they, it can cause all sorts of problems.

Iain Moore:

Like you said, not just your, not just with your feet.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you and I, that's really good context and, and I appreciate

Vicki Weinberg:

you saying that you're not sort of wanting to put misinformation out there.

Vicki Weinberg:

But yeah, so thank you for EX for explaining all of that as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I'd like to talk now if that's okay, Iain, about the process of actually

Vicki Weinberg:

designing and creating your shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I imagine there's lots that goes on between going, actually,

Vicki Weinberg:

I can't find what I'm looking for.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm going to create my own, to actually having a product ready to sell.

Vicki Weinberg:

So should we start at the beginning when you decided that you were going

Vicki Weinberg:

to create your own range and talk us through, um, sort of how you got started,

Vicki Weinberg:

I think is a good place to start.

Iain Moore:

Yeah, that's fine.

Iain Moore:

So I'd say how it all kind of started in when, you know, that little seed ended

Iain Moore:

or that last bit kind of clicked and I thought, right, I'm actually going to

Iain Moore:

do this as a business because I, things have been sort of growing subtly in my

Iain Moore:

head, but it was, um, actually watching Dragons' Den one evening and I just,

Iain Moore:

you know, shouted at the TV one of many times and said, oh, I've got an idea.

Iain Moore:

How about someone actually makes some affordable shoes, which are

Iain Moore:

good for children's feet for once?

Iain Moore:

But that idea just didn't go, it just lingered.

Iain Moore:

And I kept coming back to it and, and then I thought, right, well what can I do?

Iain Moore:

How do I go about doing this because I've got no idea about shoes or footwear.

Iain Moore:

I was in the Army for 10 years, so I've got no experience in, in sort

Iain Moore:

of business or anything like this.

Iain Moore:

So I literally started, I went online, I downloaded the Dragons'

Iain Moore:

Den, uh, application pack in there.

Iain Moore:

It says, you know, have you got a business plan?

Iain Moore:

I was like, that's a good point.

Iain Moore:

I need a business plan.

Iain Moore:

So I forgot about, I, you know, parked the whole Dragons' Den idea and thought,

Iain Moore:

right, let's get a business plan.

Iain Moore:

So my first step was building a good business plan.

Iain Moore:

Um, I, I did that.

Iain Moore:

Um, I, you know, sort of looked at the, the markets out there, what there was on,

Iain Moore:

you know, um, what there was available.

Iain Moore:

Looked at all my competitors.

Iain Moore:

And then just slowly started developing that kind of the business

Iain Moore:

plan, if you like, from that side.

Iain Moore:

Then the actual trying to develop a shoe.

Iain Moore:

I've, I went out and I, uh, I found some freelance shoe designers.

Iain Moore:

Um, I had a number of meetings with them.

Iain Moore:

Tried to narrow down, you know, who, who I wanted to work with

Iain Moore:

because I knew this was going to be an ongoing thing and I wanted a

Iain Moore:

good sort of personal relationship.

Iain Moore:

I wanted someone who really bought into what I was doing and why I was doing it.

Iain Moore:

I thought that was really important for me.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that makes absolutely sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

As you say, it is a long-term relationship, whether that's

Vicki Weinberg:

with a manufacturer, designer.

Vicki Weinberg:

By the way, I didn't know you, there were free freelance shoe designers.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

I suppose it makes sense that there would be, because I guess very

Vicki Weinberg:

few people have that skillset.

Vicki Weinberg:

So that makes total sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

So once you found someone that you were happy to work with, I guess, was it a

Vicki Weinberg:

sort of a collaborative thing of you explaining what you wanted and then

Vicki Weinberg:

translating that into actual designs?

Iain Moore:

Yeah, very much so.

Iain Moore:

So to start off with, I mean, it was brilliant.

Iain Moore:

I mean, Dan, who's my freelance designer, like if it wasn't for

Iain Moore:

for him, I definitely wouldn't be sort of where I am now.

Iain Moore:

So, like I said, right, this is sort of my price point, this is my target audience.

Iain Moore:

And then his thing was, he then said, right, you know, come back to

Iain Moore:

me with images, you know, go online, you know, sort of just find images.

Iain Moore:

What do you like, what don't you like?

Iain Moore:

Um, it doesn't have to be barefoot shoes, it can just be,

Iain Moore:

you know, traditional shoes.

Iain Moore:

But we, you know, they wanted to get an idea of what styles and

Iain Moore:

things like that we were after.

Iain Moore:

Um, I then gave them a bit of a brief, so I think quite a few of the barefoot

Iain Moore:

shoes out there can look a little bit quirky without trying to say it, without

Iain Moore:

trying to shoot myself in the foot as a, as a brand beca and, you know,

Iain Moore:

um, but yeah, some, some of the shoes out there aren't the type of shoes

Iain Moore:

which I would really choose to wear.

Iain Moore:

I, I do prefer the more sort of traditional, regular shoe look.

Iain Moore:

And that's what what I said I wanted.

Iain Moore:

I basically said to him, look, I want a shoe, which looks very much like one you

Iain Moore:

could pick up in, you know, uh, any sports shop or, um, Clarks or anything like

Iain Moore:

that, but just has these added benefits.

Iain Moore:

I want something which, you know, no kids are going to get bullied for, or anyone's

Iain Moore:

going to take them Mick because they look like clown shoes or anything like that.

Iain Moore:

So I sent them all these photos.

Iain Moore:

They came up with some designs, sent them back.

Iain Moore:

And I just kind of said, yes, I kind of like this.

Iain Moore:

I don't like that one.

Iain Moore:

How about you put a bit of this on, a bit of there and you know, we

Iain Moore:

just kind of built it through that way and it was very collaborative.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg:

And so then you ended up, I guess, with some designs.

Vicki Weinberg:

How many designs did you start off with?

Iain Moore:

Um, I'm trying to think.

Iain Moore:

I think with the shoes and with the trainers, I think we had about five

Iain Moore:

designs roughly of each, let's say, and then we sort of whittled it down

Iain Moore:

and then basically being cost effective we've launched with one style of trainer,

Iain Moore:

but do we then have, I think five different colourways of that trainer.

Iain Moore:

So, you know, by tweaking a few little bits, they do like, look like different

Iain Moore:

trainers, but actually they are just one design because otherwise, you

Iain Moore:

know, it's going to really bump up the costs of manufacturer and everything

Iain Moore:

you're going to need different.

Iain Moore:

Um, I got to pay for more knives to be made to cut the materials

Iain Moore:

and everything like this.

Iain Moore:

So, you know, I just went for one design and different colourway.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes total sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

So let's talk a little bit about the manufacturing then.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, so once you have your designs, because I guess having designs on paper

Vicki Weinberg:

is one thing, but then there's actually translating that into a shoe, checking

Vicki Weinberg:

that they look as you expect, feel as you expect they fit, and you have to

Vicki Weinberg:

find a manufacturer to do all of this.

Vicki Weinberg:

So let's talk a bit about that please.

Vicki Weinberg:

Where did you start with looking for someone to manufacture your shoes?

Iain Moore:

So I'll be honest, this is also where I completely,

Iain Moore:

uh, landed on my feet here.

Iain Moore:

So the freelance designer who I worked with, um, he had a,

Iain Moore:

um, I guess a business partner.

Iain Moore:

I was in China, so they.

Iain Moore:

Themselves, you know, they work collaboratively and you know,

Iain Moore:

instantly said, look, you can, there are other factories out there, but

Iain Moore:

at your price points, you know, I recommend that we go to China.

Iain Moore:

You know, I've got a member of staff out there.

Iain Moore:

And, um, you know, we can start getting samples made and everything like that.

Iain Moore:

So I was, I was really lucky actually.

Iain Moore:

Um, they did all of that for me.

Iain Moore:

And another thing which was really good with that was my

Iain Moore:

key thing was affordability.

Iain Moore:

Now, initially I had said I kind of wanted it sort of sub 30 pounds or, you

Iain Moore:

know, sort of high twentys to about 30, but in the end, to make something, which

Iain Moore:

was with, when you've taken shippings and shipping charges and everything

Iain Moore:

else to make so a quality product I, I really wasn't able to do that.

Iain Moore:

So we've had to bump it up slightly.

Iain Moore:

So our trainers are 35 pounds, but when we went through the whole

Iain Moore:

design process, everything was about, um, keeping them affordable.

Iain Moore:

So what was good with working with that was he basically said, look, I can be

Iain Moore:

here with you every step of the way, so you give us a price point and we

Iain Moore:

can work back from there really with the factory, and we can develop over

Iain Moore:

time and we can adjust the design.

Iain Moore:

Whereas if I'd gone with some of the other freelance designers who I

Iain Moore:

was talking to, they basically were just giving me a design and said,

Iain Moore:

that's fine, you know, off you go, go and find your, your factories.

Iain Moore:

Now you could then take that design to a factory and they go, yeah, we can build

Iain Moore:

this, but it's going to cost, you know, $50 a unit or something, rather than,

Iain Moore:

uh, you know, what we were looking for.

Iain Moore:

So it was really good actually, that Dan sort of had this contact.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's such a good point.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I, I can totally see that you, I think you actually, the way you've described

Vicki Weinberg:

it to me, I'm thinking actually that's almost essential because you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

If you, if the designer doesn't have a good understanding of the

Vicki Weinberg:

production process, they could very well design you something that you

Vicki Weinberg:

say that's way over your budget.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, not, you know, not on purpose, but I guess if they don't really

Vicki Weinberg:

know, have a sense of how much things cost and what materials are.

Vicki Weinberg:

And so it sounds like your designer also had some sort of understanding of, how

Vicki Weinberg:

shoes are produced or at least, you know, was in contact with somebody who did.

Iain Moore:

Oh, definitely.

Iain Moore:

I mean, he, he's been across to the factories, you know,

Iain Moore:

numerous times over the years.

Iain Moore:

I mean, uh, he's been in the footwear industry for sort of over 20 years, so he,

Iain Moore:

he, you know, well, children's footwear.

Iain Moore:

Not really, he does some adults, but his, his focus has always been on children's.

Iain Moore:

So yeah, he know, he knows the whole process and you know, how he

Iain Moore:

can shave a bit of money off and, and all these different things.

Vicki Weinberg:

Well, that sounds invaluable.

Iain Moore:

Yeah, no, it definitely if like, you know, I, I've said to him, um,

Iain Moore:

before, if it wasn't for him, you know, I definitely wouldn't be where I am now.

Vicki Weinberg:

Isn't it good when people just come into your

Vicki Weinberg:

life at just the right time?

Vicki Weinberg:

That's amazing.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

Um, it, it really was helpful, you know, um, there's been a number of

Iain Moore:

cases like that when things have, you know, kind of gone well for me.

Iain Moore:

But then it's also tricky because I, in some ways with this, I've

Iain Moore:

said, you know, I've said to people that I've been really lucky.

Iain Moore:

But I've actually, years ago, listened to a podcast, actually, I'm sure.

Iain Moore:

I, um, they were talking about a, a study which they did, about people who

Iain Moore:

believed that they were lucky and people who felt that they were sort of unlucky

Iain Moore:

and, and things just never really worked for them or turned out well for them.

Iain Moore:

I'm sure that they sort of basically sent them into this room for like a

Iain Moore:

meet and greet, and the people who said that they were lucky basically

Iain Moore:

went in, got a coffee and just started mingling and talking to people.

Iain Moore:

And then they then found that the people who then said that generally they find

Iain Moore:

themselves unlucky and things just don't work out for them, are the people who kind

Iain Moore:

of got a coffee, stood to the side and use their phone and sort of heads down and

Iain Moore:

didn't really start those conversations and I, I've definitely you know, the more

Iain Moore:

I've been doing this, I definitely see that that's one thing which has helped me

Iain Moore:

is just conversations with people, asking people what they do and, and just really

Iain Moore:

trying to understand it and talking, you know, honestly about what I do.

Iain Moore:

And then, you know, I mean, I've had some, some of the dads from my son's school

Iain Moore:

have helped me out with the business plan and stuff because, you know, I was

Iain Moore:

talking to them and about honestly what I was doing and, you know, I had no

Iain Moore:

experience whatsoever about running or starting my own business and just that

Iain Moore:

little bit of vulnerability, they kind of went, well look, you know, I, I'm no

Iain Moore:

guru, but bring us your business plan.

Iain Moore:

You know, I did mine 10, 20 years ago and I'll have a look at for you.

Iain Moore:

Um, but it was just because I started that conversation.

Iain Moore:

That's how it happened.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really good, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

I think you are right.

Vicki Weinberg:

I think if you're open to help and I, I think it's about being open, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

If you think if you're open, then more comes along.

Vicki Weinberg:

I don't mean that in we were waiting, but I just think in general, I

Vicki Weinberg:

think if you're, like you say you're willing to talk to people or may maybe

Vicki Weinberg:

even ask for help as well, I think.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, people don't always know that you need it if you, you know, if you, if you're

Vicki Weinberg:

not talking about it and telling people.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I, I'd love to know as well, so when, as well as talking to people

Vicki Weinberg:

about, you know, your, your business, did you get other people involved?

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm thinking when you had started, you know, you got to the sampling

Vicki Weinberg:

stage, were you talking to other people about what they wanted from

Vicki Weinberg:

this shoe or what they thought of the designs or, or anything like that?

Iain Moore:

So I did, so initially when I first, I guess, started coming up

Iain Moore:

with, uh, developing the ideas of the shoes, I wanted to make sure that what I

Iain Moore:

thought, I guess was objectively correct.

Iain Moore:

So I actually did a, um, oh, what do you bloody call it?

Iain Moore:

Not a quiz, uh, survey.

Iain Moore:

So I did a survey.

Iain Moore:

And I put it out on social media.

Iain Moore:

And because I was part of some of the barefoot shoe groups, you know, I just

Iain Moore:

did a little post and just said, look, I'm, this is what I'm looking at doing.

Iain Moore:

If anyone's got some time, could you please com uh, complete this survey.

Iain Moore:

So I had loads of people complete the survey, which told me, you

Iain Moore:

know, sort of what was important to them when buying shoes.

Iain Moore:

Who makes the decisions, the price points, you know, when buying

Iain Moore:

some shoes, you know, what's the highest priority and you know, like

Iain Moore:

what style of shoes would you get?

Iain Moore:

And, and there the clear favorite was trainers, school shoes, and

Iain Moore:

wellies, um, for the children.

Iain Moore:

Then when we went through the design process, we started getting the, the, the

Iain Moore:

samples, you know, I basically, I started showing those to, to people who I knew,

Iain Moore:

sort of friends and things like that.

Iain Moore:

And basically just said like, you know, what do you think of this?

Iain Moore:

What do you think of the style?

Iain Moore:

And I just had a few people who were close to me who, um, I got a bit

Iain Moore:

of advice from and, and yeah, that, you know, that, that worked wonder.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant and I, I think it's, that's great to hear

Vicki Weinberg:

because I, and it's good that you were part of those barefoot communities as

Vicki Weinberg:

well because it sounds like they're the ideal people to get feedback from because

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm assuming that people who are part of those communities who have children are

Vicki Weinberg:

therefore going to be very interested in these shoes for their children.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

Although again, maybe I have to be, be a bit careful what I say.

Iain Moore:

With the barefoot community, I guess they're, the barefoot community, are

Iain Moore:

really aware of the benefits of the shoes and they've like fully bought into

Iain Moore:

what they want from a barefoot shoe.

Iain Moore:

And then what I have found was some of the parents from the barefoot community,

Iain Moore:

if you like, were, I don't want to say really picky, but they, you know, they

Iain Moore:

wanted far more than what I was able to deliver, I guess, at my price points.

Iain Moore:

While some of them are a really good community and, and you know, they sort

Iain Moore:

of like what I was doing and they're kind of backing me, I think some of them are

Iain Moore:

actually more willing to pay, you know, a higher price point to get the, the

Iain Moore:

perfect barefoot shoe, which, you know, I'm, I'm not able, I can't create a shoe

Iain Moore:

which is going to fit every single child and every single child's style of foot.

Iain Moore:

So some of the barefoot community will, you know, kind of look across

Iain Moore:

all the brands and they'll kind of go, okay, my child has got skinny

Iain Moore:

feet, but got a high end step.

Iain Moore:

Or they've got, you know, really wide feet and a narrow heel or, or, what's that?

Iain Moore:

And I just can't, I couldn't design a shoe which is going to fit every single foot.

Iain Moore:

So actually some of that barefoot community, they really like

Iain Moore:

finding the, the ideal shoe.

Iain Moore:

My ultimate goal, I guess, is actually trying to convert the parents who don't

Iain Moore:

know anything about barefoot shoes or know limited amounts about barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

That that's, that's my kind of goal.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really interesting.

Vicki Weinberg:

I was just, as you were talking, that was going to be my next question

Vicki Weinberg:

was that, is your audience actually your ideal customers, actually the

Vicki Weinberg:

people who are buying shoes for their children and just don't realize

Vicki Weinberg:

the benefits of barefoot shoes?

Vicki Weinberg:

Well, I guess, uh, and I'd love to know as well, do you think that that's

Vicki Weinberg:

a harder sell because they don't know about the benefits of barefoot

Vicki Weinberg:

shoes, or is it just as tricky?

Vicki Weinberg:

You know, as if you were targeting the barefoot community who have lots of

Vicki Weinberg:

specific requirements of their shoes or it's possibly be, it's possibly the same,

Vicki Weinberg:

but yeah, I guess the actual question probably is, so how are you finding

Vicki Weinberg:

sort of marketing something to people that they perhaps don't yet know they

Vicki Weinberg:

need and need a bit of education on?

Vicki Weinberg:

That's probably a better question.

Iain Moore:

I'll be honest.

Iain Moore:

Finding it very tricky.

Iain Moore:

Um, it definitely hasn't gone exactly the way I would've liked.

Iain Moore:

I am struggling to kind of get my message out there a little bit.

Iain Moore:

Um, because it's, it's not sort of short form information, really, you know,

Iain Moore:

two minutes of information and, you know, I could chat to her parents and

Iain Moore:

they, uh, just basically go, yep, give, you know, here's my money, take it.

Iain Moore:

You know, I want your shoes.

Iain Moore:

When you kind of tell someone about the, you know, the benefits of barefoot

Iain Moore:

shoes, nor to some degree, you know, you look at a bit of common sense and

Iain Moore:

why would you, you know, you look at your child's feet when they're born.

Iain Moore:

And you know, the baby shoes are pretty much barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

Why then, you know, do we start getting this narrow pointy two toe box about,

Iain Moore:

you know, two or three years old?

Iain Moore:

You know, and then why is it that so many women, you know, more

Iain Moore:

so later in life that then have bunions and things like that?

Iain Moore:

You know, it is, I think pretty much people would agree that a lot of the

Iain Moore:

bunions and stuff will come from, you know, high heels and being in

Iain Moore:

pointy shoes and stuff like that.

Iain Moore:

And your, your foot just develops and grows like that.

Iain Moore:

I'm trying to make parents' lives easier with what we do as a business.

Iain Moore:

And I'm also just trying to offer them something, which I

Iain Moore:

think actually is a, you know, we are at lower price than Clarks.

Iain Moore:

And I would say, you know, and we have then the, these, uh, sort of the benefits

Iain Moore:

if you like, of, of, you know, sort of health benefits or benefit shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm not surprised actually that you said it was a bit of a challenge.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I think whenever you're doing something that's a bit unique, it

Vicki Weinberg:

there is a bit of education involved and it does take a little bit longer.

Vicki Weinberg:

I agree with you though.

Vicki Weinberg:

The fact that your shoes are cheaper than Clarks and cheaper than some of the other

Vicki Weinberg:

High Street stores is probably a big advantage because I think if you were.

Vicki Weinberg:

If you were perhaps creating barefoot shoes to target may maybe, you know,

Vicki Weinberg:

the hardcore barefoot community and therefore shoes that were much higher,

Vicki Weinberg:

more niche, but much higher priced.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, I think that would be a much trickier sell to, you know, most parents who just

Vicki Weinberg:

was say, who want the best for their children, but also want affordable shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I guess it sounds, so, it sounds like for the market you are aiming

Vicki Weinberg:

at, it sounds like you've put loads of thought into making sure the price

Vicki Weinberg:

point is right and the, you know, and the shoes are as good as they can be.

Iain Moore:

Yeah, definitely.

Iain Moore:

So that's what, and also I, you know, my wife and I, obviously

Iain Moore:

parents, and so we started.

Iain Moore:

Well, part of the reason we did this, or, or what we wanted as well

Iain Moore:

was make parents' lives easier.

Iain Moore:

So, you know, how can you do that?

Iain Moore:

I mean, everyone hates that battle.

Iain Moore:

I mean, I remember as a kid with my mother, you know, being dragged

Iain Moore:

into Clark's shoes and, you know, there's just kids running, you know,

Iain Moore:

running wild and, and stuff like that.

Iain Moore:

And, you know, it was the sort of the tradition that you go

Iain Moore:

in, you get your feet measured and, and go and get your shoes.

Iain Moore:

People's lives are so busy at the moment.

Iain Moore:

So one of the things which we offer is you can go to our

Iain Moore:

website and buy a foot measurer.

Iain Moore:

We call it our freeish foot measurer.

Iain Moore:

So you can buy one, three pounds, 50, and then you get three pounds 50

Iain Moore:

deducted off your first order of shoes.

Iain Moore:

So it's basically a free foot measurer.

Iain Moore:

So then you have it at home, so then you can keep measuring your kids' feet

Iain Moore:

and you can pass it on or whatever it might be, but you don't have to

Iain Moore:

go into that battle of trying to find time, trying to drag your kids in, you

Iain Moore:

know, to go and get your school shoes.

Iain Moore:

You can order one, it comes home, measure your kids' feet, order

Iain Moore:

online, and a few days later you've got our shoes through the door.

Iain Moore:

Just trying to make those parents' lives easier.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's such a good idea because I don't know who hates shoe

Vicki Weinberg:

shopping more me or my kids if I'm honest.

Vicki Weinberg:

And as you say though, is one of those things at the moment you

Vicki Weinberg:

have to do in the shop because you don't know what size feet they are.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, so I think that's brilliant because, I mean, let's face it, a

Vicki Weinberg:

lot of us nowadays are buying online.

Vicki Weinberg:

It's much easier to buy online.

Vicki Weinberg:

But kids' shoes is the thing that usually you can't unless you're

Vicki Weinberg:

prepared to buy an awful lot of shoes and send loads of them back.

Vicki Weinberg:

And actually, I always feel that I want to have my kids' feet measured

Vicki Weinberg:

properly and know their feet are fitted in the shoes properly.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because, you know, you don't want them walking round in shoes that are

Vicki Weinberg:

a bit tight or going to pinch on a certain point or something like that.

Vicki Weinberg:

So, and if you just, you know, if, if the way you're buying them is by

Vicki Weinberg:

ordering lots of pairs and trying them on and crossing your fingers

Vicki Weinberg:

that something's going to fit.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that's definitely where you can end up.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

Uh, and also I think one of the things which is quite good with our shoes at

Iain Moore:

least, is I'll say the majority of, or the most, most kids absolutely love

Iain Moore:

our shoes because they are so much, you know, they're thinner, they're flexible,

Iain Moore:

and the foot can move more naturally.

Iain Moore:

Kids love them.

Iain Moore:

You know, I had, uh, you know, somewhat jokingly, but I had sort

Iain Moore:

of complaints when we launched the school shoes initially, and

Iain Moore:

we didn't have the trainers out.

Iain Moore:

Like I had joking complaints from parents, you know, demanding that

Iain Moore:

I, I released my trainer sooner because their kids refused to wear

Iain Moore:

their own trainers at the weekends.

Iain Moore:

They would only wear their school shoes because they were the barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

And they just found them more comfortable and they, they were asking to go to

Iain Moore:

the park in them, things like that.

Iain Moore:

They just, they're like, no, you know, I don't like putting my trainers on now.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's so interesting, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

That's, that's really interesting that the kids themselves could notice such a

Vicki Weinberg:

big difference because I wasn't sure if it was something where we know it's better,

Vicki Weinberg:

but actually for the child that, you know, there isn't a load of difference.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I.

Vicki Weinberg:

Really, I'm quite blown away by the fact that the kids are noticing

Vicki Weinberg:

that much difference in the, in the way their shoes feel on their feet.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

It, it is really noticeable.

Iain Moore:

The kids love them and yeah, they, they just get that, I think part of

Iain Moore:

it is they get the sensory feedback.

Iain Moore:

You know, if you are in, you know, shoes from the, you know, whatever

Iain Moore:

shop it might be, they have, you know, a huge, chunky sole on them.

Iain Moore:

And they just don't get that sensory feedback from, you know,

Iain Moore:

from the ground or anything.

Iain Moore:

And then, you know, you then kind of wonder, well, why, you know, you stick

Iain Moore:

shoes on your kid and they're just stumbling over and they keep tripping up

Iain Moore:

when they're learning to walk and stuff.

Iain Moore:

And you're like, well, you know, actually, is it, is it

Iain Moore:

because they're learning to walk?

Iain Moore:

Or, it's actually more of it because I've now stuck these, you know, planks

Iain Moore:

on the bottom of their feet, which, which then don't move to their body

Iain Moore:

and they can't really feel the ground.

Iain Moore:

So you're, you know, basically walking around in moon boots.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah, that ma makes, that makes so much sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

And what do your kids think of your shoes?

Vicki Weinberg:

I'm, I'm interested.

Vicki Weinberg:

Do they love them?

Iain Moore:

Uh, yeah.

Iain Moore:

They, yeah, they, they love them.

Iain Moore:

And I , I'll be honest, my, my daughter's feet are actually

Iain Moore:

one size too small for my shoes.

Iain Moore:

But, um, yeah, I, I basically just refused to get to get her some different ones.

Iain Moore:

So I stuck her in some of my shoes, the size, when they were a size too big.

Iain Moore:

But she loves them.

Iain Moore:

She liked wearing them.

Iain Moore:

She, she loves, like, there's, um, so with us, we've got a, a smiley face,

Iain Moore:

like in the, uh, what would you call it?

Iain Moore:

Like, um, basically where your heel goes, but it's cut in half.

Iain Moore:

So if you put your shoes together, the children can see an orange, smiley

Iain Moore:

face so they can just start to getting that independence of trying to put, of

Iain Moore:

getting their shoes on the right feet.

Iain Moore:

Because the amount of times when I've been trying to get out the door

Iain Moore:

with my son bef, you know, before he had my shoes and he was like,

Iain Moore:

oh daddy, is this the right way?

Iain Moore:

Is this the right way?

Iain Moore:

Or you go to the park or something, he's saying, but your feet are hurting.

Iain Moore:

You have a look.

Iain Moore:

And he's got banana feet.

Iain Moore:

He's got the shoes on the wrong side.

Iain Moore:

So again, just trying to help parents to help.

Iain Moore:

Well, you've got this sort of smiley face cut in half, so then kids can just kind

Iain Moore:

of learn that independence of getting their own shoes on before they really

Iain Moore:

start to grasp what left and right means.

Iain Moore:

So yeah, she, she really likes doing that.

Iain Moore:

Smiley.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's so clever because you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

That is a, that is a massive challenge.

Vicki Weinberg:

And actually sometimes if, when you are, even as an adult, when you're

Vicki Weinberg:

looking at them quickly it's hard to sort of, sometimes you have to pick

Vicki Weinberg:

them up to work out which one goes, well I do, to work out which one goes

Vicki Weinberg:

on which feet unless it's very obvious.

Vicki Weinberg:

So yeah, that's a really good idea.

Vicki Weinberg:

I haven't seen that anywhere.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, and so when you had, it's just going to go back just very briefly, back to

Vicki Weinberg:

the sort of the, the production side.

Vicki Weinberg:

So once you had samples produced were you trying them on your kids and other

Vicki Weinberg:

kids to see how they fit and how, I'm just curious in how that works, because

Vicki Weinberg:

I guess that that's with any sort of clothing or, or sort of, and footwear,

Vicki Weinberg:

it must be a minefield to sort of make sure that they're, the sizing is right.

Vicki Weinberg:

So how does, how does that work?

Iain Moore:

Um, so, um, so the sizing was to start off with, was done by

Iain Moore:

my shoe designer because there are.

Iain Moore:

You know, he, he knows all of that if you like.

Iain Moore:

Um, so he dealt with the sizes and, and then we had the, um, samples made once the

Iain Moore:

samples were made and we'd sign those off.

Iain Moore:

We then had, um, wear testing samples made and fit testing samples.

Iain Moore:

So then they all got sent to the UK.

Iain Moore:

We sent them off to a, um, I don't know what you'd actually classify

Iain Moore:

as, I guess a, just a, a shoe fitter.

Iain Moore:

So it is a, this lady's job who is just, she gets sent shoes from different brands

Iain Moore:

and things and, and you know, just tries on different kids' feet and, and make

Iain Moore:

sure that they sort of fit, you know, the average sort of kids and they won't rub

Iain Moore:

anywhere or anything once it's past that.

Iain Moore:

Um, we then sent out the wear testers to, well to people everywhere.

Iain Moore:

I had some people up here, I had some people down from where the, the freelance

Iain Moore:

shoe designer was, uh, where Dan was.

Iain Moore:

So we just sent them out to local parents, just did the post on social media and

Iain Moore:

just sort of said, look, we've, we've, you know, got these shoes and does anyone,

Iain Moore:

you know, want to want a free pair of, well, not a free pair, but basically, you

Iain Moore:

know, because we had to get them back.

Iain Moore:

But, um, basically just said, look, you know, would, would anyone like

Iain Moore:

to be involved in, in this process?

Iain Moore:

And, you know, have our shoes for I think probably eight to 12 weeks.

Iain Moore:

I think they had to wear them, then they sent them back and then, you

Iain Moore:

know, little questionnaire, you know, how did the kids find them?

Iain Moore:

Did they complain about, you know, it rubbing anywhere when you looked at their

Iain Moore:

feet, you know, did they get any blisters?

Iain Moore:

And then we can inspect the shoes as well, see how it, they're wearing,

Iain Moore:

um, and everything like that.

Iain Moore:

And yeah, so we went through all that process and yeah, we actually ended up

Iain Moore:

with more, far more requests, a lot more requests actually for the shoes than

Iain Moore:

the number of wear pairs, which we had.

Iain Moore:

As soon as we kind of put this thing out on, um, some of the parent

Iain Moore:

groups and basically said, this is, you know, this is what our shoes

Iain Moore:

do, this is what we're looking at.

Iain Moore:

Does anyone want them?

Iain Moore:

Parents went crazy for them.

Iain Moore:

The difficulty is, in, you know, the Facebook groups or the, you know, buy,

Iain Moore:

swap, sell and or whatever it might be.

Iain Moore:

Or, you know, mum's notice boards and stuff like that

Iain Moore:

on the mum's notice boards.

Iain Moore:

You can't, um, sort of self-publish.

Iain Moore:

I, sorry, I can't self advertise, so I can't go on to mum's groups

Iain Moore:

and basically spam them and go, oh look, this is what our shoes do.

Iain Moore:

This is what they're, you know, this is how good they are for your

Iain Moore:

kids' feet, and so on and so forth.

Iain Moore:

We can't do that, but when we put a post, just saying like, we need some wear

Iain Moore:

testers, which we were allowed to do.

Iain Moore:

Everyone loved the idea.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really good.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think, I guess even though you weren't able to put a past

Vicki Weinberg:

out and say, this is, you know, we're selling these shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Hopefully you still got some good publicity from that post and also

Vicki Weinberg:

from the people that then tried the shoes and and loved them.

Iain Moore:

Oh, definitely.

Iain Moore:

We had, uh, a good amount of return custom from the people with the wear testers.

Iain Moore:

I mean, it kind of a little bit out of sort of thin air, but I think

Iain Moore:

you'd probably be looking at somewhere around 60 to 80% of the people who

Iain Moore:

you know, did the wear testers, I'd say, and probably more the higher end.

Iain Moore:

They've then all come back and purchased our shoes.

Iain Moore:

So, you know, I, I think that speaks volumes.

Vicki Weinberg:

That really does.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think that's, that's so smart as well because, you know, we were

Vicki Weinberg:

talking earlier about how it's hard to sort of, not convert people, but you

Vicki Weinberg:

know, to explain to people why they might want to consider barefoot shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, and it sounds like by actually trying the shoes, they

Vicki Weinberg:

kind of spoke for themselves.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

So also some of what I've been trying to do is when I've been doing some marketing,

Iain Moore:

I've actually always been trying to move away from calling them barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

I'm more sort of been trying to sort of use the words of like they're

Iain Moore:

foot friendly or something like that.

Iain Moore:

And then maybe later on down the line, bringing in this sort of comment of

Iain Moore:

barefoot shoes because people might not either understand what barefoot

Iain Moore:

shoes are or they might, you know, to have heard some misinformation

Iain Moore:

about it or whatever it might be.

Iain Moore:

So I just want to make sure that, you know, parents have the sort

Iain Moore:

of best information and they just understand it a bit clearer.

Iain Moore:

And if you say, oh, they're, they're foot friendly, they're, you know,

Iain Moore:

they're good for your kids' feet.

Iain Moore:

I think parents then kind of go, okay, tell me, tell me more.

Vicki Weinberg:

That makes real sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

I think you're, I think you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

And that's really smart as well because I think foot friendly is something

Vicki Weinberg:

that we all want for our kids.

Vicki Weinberg:

And as I said, coming back to that graphic, which is the one that kind

Vicki Weinberg:

of really got my attention, sort of, nobody wants to think their

Vicki Weinberg:

kids' toes have all squished up.

Vicki Weinberg:

Shoes that are too tight, you know, if it feels like that,

Vicki Weinberg:

it just makes total sense.

Vicki Weinberg:

But you're right, when you think of barefoot shoes, I think also some people

Vicki Weinberg:

who do know about them might have other, you know, might have other views because

Vicki Weinberg:

they might think of them as being, you know, like those flashy running

Vicki Weinberg:

trainers I was talking about earlier.

Vicki Weinberg:

Or they might think it's you know, it's not something for children or,

Vicki Weinberg:

I think it's, it's hard, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

So I think you're right.

Vicki Weinberg:

Fit friend.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really smart actually.

Vicki Weinberg:

So to, to kind of pitch them in that way.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, cause I know, cause there will also be people actually said who

Vicki Weinberg:

have sort of a, a poor perception of barefoot shoes for various reasons.

Iain Moore:

Oh, definitely.

Iain Moore:

I mean, years ago was, I say ye uh, was, I want to say somewhere

Iain Moore:

around 2010, 2012, there was a book which came out called Born to Run.

Iain Moore:

And lots of runners read it and they, you know, thought, wow, this is basically

Iain Moore:

about running barefoot and things.

Iain Moore:

And they're like, brilliant.

Iain Moore:

I need this.

Iain Moore:

I'm going to go out and buy some barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

I'm going to start running in barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

And they basically go from running a normal trainers to barefoot

Iain Moore:

shoes within like six weeks or something, and like a year later.

Iain Moore:

Um, they end up, you know, their knees are knackered or you know, something

Iain Moore:

somewhere has gone wrong and they end up going, well, you know, it's,

Iain Moore:

it's because of barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

They've gone back to normal sort of running shoes if you like, but

Iain Moore:

again, that's because you've adapted, you know, everything is adapted to

Iain Moore:

wearing sort of traditional shoes like the, the whole running gate,

Iain Moore:

you know, running with a, a heel.

Iain Moore:

Which, you know, isn't such a natural way to run really.

Iain Moore:

If you, if you run barefoot, you know, everyone almost, you know, majority

Iain Moore:

of people just automatically change to a midfoot slash four foot, four

Iain Moore:

foot strike because otherwise it, you know, jars your whole body trying to

Iain Moore:

run barefoot, you know, with a heel strike it, it sort of jolts you.

Iain Moore:

So people automatically change to, to, you know, sort of barefoot gate when

Iain Moore:

they run without anything like them.

Iain Moore:

We, we, we just don't want people to kind of get converted into the, you

Iain Moore:

know, traditional shoes, which can be harmful for, for people's feet.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I'm actually.

Vicki Weinberg:

A little bit embarrassed to tell you that that book is the reason I

Vicki Weinberg:

started wearing barefoot trainers.

Vicki Weinberg:

Although I was fairly sensible, I think as in I went for a shoe

Vicki Weinberg:

that wasn't completely barefoot.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, back then, I think you're right, it was maybe 10 years ago, something like

Vicki Weinberg:

that, you could sort of get varying degrees of padding, you know, so you

Vicki Weinberg:

could gradually you know, you could go sort of slightly less cushioned

Vicki Weinberg:

and sort of work your way down, which was the approach that I took.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, for fear of Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

Some sort of injury.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

That was funny when you said that because I thought, oh yeah, that's

Vicki Weinberg:

exact book, that, that made me decide that might be a good idea.

Vicki Weinberg:

It's funny, isn't it?

Vicki Weinberg:

How things can just be a bit of a fad.

Vicki Weinberg:

And you're right, that if for someone who read that book 10 years ago, they

Vicki Weinberg:

might completely see it as a fad or a trend and something that, you know

Vicki Weinberg:

past It's, yeah, so I think your right foot friendly is definitely,

Vicki Weinberg:

that's makes more sense and it's a much clearer message, I think as well.

Iain Moore:

Yeah, I mean it's a similar time I think as well.

Iain Moore:

That's when the, the, the vivo five fingers came v not vivo,

Iain Moore:

uh, Vibram, five fingers.

Iain Moore:

I don't know if you've seen those there, like there.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yes.

Iain Moore:

Yes.

Iain Moore:

But then, so when you say barefoot, when I've just been talking to, to

Iain Moore:

other people who, you know, don't know about sort of our shoes or anything,

Iain Moore:

and they say about barefoot shoes and like, oh, is that those weird, like,

Iain Moore:

is that those weird ones where you've got the, the like foot gloves and like,

Iain Moore:

no, that's, that is a barefoot company, but that's not what barefoot shoes are.

Iain Moore:

So again, I don't want people to sort of have this misconception.

Iain Moore:

Um, and again, there's like you said, just the, the, the amount of

Iain Moore:

misinformation which there, there can be out there about footwear.

Iain Moore:

I, I don't want people to have sort of that, the stigmatized

Iain Moore:

idea of, of barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

So yeah, I'm just trying to go with, you know, with, with foot friendly, you know.

Vicki Weinberg:

And that's what they are.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because as you said earlier, some of the barefoot shoes can look a bit different.

Vicki Weinberg:

So you averaged shoes, but your shoes have shoes that look like shoes

Vicki Weinberg:

that kids and parents would choose.

Vicki Weinberg:

I mean, I guess from the outside, they're, they look exactly the same.

Vicki Weinberg:

I mean, I've seen your products on your website, they look

Vicki Weinberg:

like every other pair of shoes.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I mean that in a, in a positive way.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

You know, they don't, they don't stand out.

Vicki Weinberg:

And I think that's kind of, that's really important.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I definitely think that for the audience, you know, you are trying

Vicki Weinberg:

to sell these to, I definitely think they're pitched perfectly.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

So that was one of the things which actually was exactly what you wanted,

Iain Moore:

was where you said they don't stand out.

Iain Moore:

That's exactly what I wanted.

Iain Moore:

I didn't, you know, they, our, our shoes are going to stand out and be

Iain Moore:

different because they're barefoot shoes.

Iain Moore:

So the rest of it, I actually want them to look generic, which, you

Iain Moore:

know, I'm, I'm glad to, to hear to some degree that we are achieving.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's brilliant.

Vicki Weinberg:

And um, so I've just got one final question before we

Vicki Weinberg:

finish, if that's okay ing.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I want to be really mindful of your time.

Vicki Weinberg:

Yeah.

Vicki Weinberg:

So my final question is, what is your number one piece of advice

Vicki Weinberg:

for other product creators?

Iain Moore:

So I've been trying to actually give this

Iain Moore:

some thought and I don't know.

Iain Moore:

If I could say that, you know, I'm definitely not far enough

Iain Moore:

down the line to be saying this is what other people should be doing.

Iain Moore:

But I can definitely say what has worked well for me.

Iain Moore:

And I would say if you're trying to make a decision, you're never

Iain Moore:

going to be a hundred percent sure.

Iain Moore:

So for me, I was trying to get to, am I about 75% sure this is the right decision?

Iain Moore:

And if it is, that's my threshold, and then I go, fine, let's go.

Iain Moore:

Because otherwise you can just drag things out for so long trying to

Iain Moore:

find the perfect, you know, answer to what, you know, the perfect shoe

Iain Moore:

design or, or whatever it might be.

Iain Moore:

Whereas actually I'm like, nope.

Iain Moore:

Is it 75% there?

Iain Moore:

Yes, good.

Iain Moore:

That's good enough for me.

Iain Moore:

And then I'll start doing whatever it is and if it doesn't work, and

Iain Moore:

it just means you've learned faster and you know, so, you know, when.

Iain Moore:

I'll give you an example.

Iain Moore:

When we first launched, because everyone has to been mindful of, of the

Iain Moore:

environments and stuff, we, we wrapped our shoes to post them out in, um, paper with

Iain Moore:

sort of nice, um, eco paper tape on top.

Iain Moore:

And it was like, yep, this is the way I'm going.

Iain Moore:

You know, 75%, I'm sure that this is the right option.

Iain Moore:

And we started.

Iain Moore:

And within a couple of weeks I was like, nope, it doesn't work.

Iain Moore:

Uh, just because of the amount of time, even though it was, you know,

Iain Moore:

I mean it was, this has taken me sort of, you know, 40 seconds I think to

Iain Moore:

wrap up, uh, just a box by itself.

Iain Moore:

But even still, when you're posting so many, it didn't work.

Iain Moore:

But rather than spending ages and everything getting

Iain Moore:

delayed, I made the decision.

Iain Moore:

I started going down that path and I just learnt faster that

Iain Moore:

it did, does or doesn't work.

Iain Moore:

And yeah, that, that's something which has really helped.

Vicki Weinberg:

That's really great advice.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you.

Vicki Weinberg:

Because I think, I, I think you're right that sometimes, you know, you can

Vicki Weinberg:

procrastinate or yeah, spend a long time thinking about the, some of the smaller

Vicki Weinberg:

details, which I'm not saying they're not important, but like, you know,

Vicki Weinberg:

like you've just said, you can, you can change, you can make a decision then a

Vicki Weinberg:

weeks or days or even hours later go do you know what, actually, I think I'll

Vicki Weinberg:

do it a bit differently and that's fine.

Vicki Weinberg:

So I think that's, I think that's really, I mean, that's really great

Vicki Weinberg:

practical advice for everything actually.

Iain Moore:

Yeah.

Iain Moore:

Well, I'm, yeah, I mean, I, I, I think I actually nabbed it off Barack Obama.

Iain Moore:

I, um, I, I heard him talking about something, about making a

Iain Moore:

decision, and he, I'm sure he said it was something like, I think 80

Iain Moore:

or 60%, whatever his number was.

Iain Moore:

It was like, no, you're never going to have a hundred percent of the information.

Iain Moore:

This is my threshold.

Iain Moore:

I hit that and then I make, I go with it.

Iain Moore:

So, if it was good enough for him, then I'm sure it'll be all right for me.

Vicki Weinberg:

I mean, that's really good.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much and thank you so much for everything you've shared.

Vicki Weinberg:

Um, yeah, I loved hearing more about your journey and your products and

Vicki Weinberg:

a bit about barefoot shoes as well.

Vicki Weinberg:

So thank you so much.

Iain Moore:

Okay, perfect.

Iain Moore:

Well, thank you very much for your time.

Vicki Weinberg:

You're welcome.

Vicki Weinberg:

Thank you so much for listening right to the end of this episode.

Vicki Weinberg:

Do remember that you can get the full back catalogue and lots of free resources

Vicki Weinberg:

on my website, vicki weinberg.com.

Vicki Weinberg:

Please do remember to rate and review this episode if you've enjoyed it,

Vicki Weinberg:

and also share it with a friend who you think might find it useful.

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