In this episode, we look at the funeral and the lead-up and what these tell us about our society.

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In the last seven days, we need to sit back and listen to the

Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove.

Yes.

Welcome back.

Dear listener, episode 355.

I'm Trevor, the Iron Fist with me, Joe, the tech guy.

How are you Joe evening?

All.

Mm, well, dear listener queen Elizabeth second is dead.

I'm not, but it feels sometimes like I'm close to it.

Cause I got COVID when I was in Sydney.

And I've been sick for nine days, 10 days, like really bad, bad,

clogged up head, even my nose.

Now you can probably hear my voice is not normal.

And, I've just been spending the last 10 days sitting around, lying in bed and

doing nothing, cuz I can't do anything.

I literally, cannot do anything.

So yeah, it's pretty rough.

And it's just a cold Trevor, just man up and get over it.

No, I have to say that, you know, they say that the vaccine really, has helped

in terms of the symptoms that you feel.

And I've had four shots.

I tell you what I felt pretty darn crook and I'm a reasonably

healthy guy for a 58 year old.

So I mean everybody's experience is different, but I really

would not have liked to have.

had that dose of COVID without having had four shots, if everything they say

about the shots alleviating the symptoms is true, cuz I would've been in hospital.

So, as it was I, well, you know, I didn't have to go to hospital.

Well, didn't really think about it, but still very unpleasant.

So my advice to your listener is if you can avoid a dose of COVID then

avoided you haven't had it yet.

Joan, have you?

I don't know.

So my daughter and her boyfriend were staying here, and they

both tested positive for COVID.

I was in the same house cooking with them.

the child at one stage was snuggled up on my bed, watching a movie.

So it wasn't like there was any distance between us and I had some mild

symptoms, but never tested positive.

So possibly I'm on immunosuppressive drugs.

So I would've thought I was at high risk of yeah.

Have you got the antivirals, if you were to get COVID, would you get the special

antiviral treatment that's around?

Possibly.

I don't know.

Right.

Cause I was talking to Robin Bristo, AKA brother Samma demo go.

And because he's got issues.

Yep.

He had lined up with his GP in advance to say, if I get COVID you've

gotta be ready to get these for me.

And he got them very, very quickly once he got COVID.

So yeah.

Anyway, I'm still a few days off.

Remember as a 20 year old getting flu and it put me in bed for three weeks.

Yeah, go.

So yeah, we, we laugh about man flu, but he's a serious disease and my daughter's

teenage friend who had COVID I think six months on is still getting breathless

if she does any form of exercise.

Yes it's.

Yeah, it does.

And I think there's, there's.

Evidence there's more and more evidence of long-term damage.

Mm.

So this was,, 10 days ago.

I was coming back from Sydney and I think there was maybe three or four

people on the plane with a mask on and I was one of them, but, and in the

airport, virtually one out of a hundred was wearing a mask, at that point.

So I, on the way down to Sydney, it was mandatory to have the

mask on the plane, but by mm-hmm, , I'd spend a week in Sydney.

By the time I came back, it was no longer mandatory.

And, and yeah, literally just a handful on the plane and maybe one or two in

every a hundred people in the airport, the masks on saying, there we go.

Anyway, in my trip, we were mandatory.

So nobody wore them at the airport, but when we got on the plane,

they told us it was mandatory.

Yep.

And then admittedly, the plane was packed.

And on the way back, the plane was sparsely populated and the,

the mask laws had been changed.

So we had to wear it in the airport, but not on the plane.

Right.

What, what, yeah.

At the airport, they insisted that we wear the masks and then we got

on the plane and they said, oh, you don't have to wear your masks anymore.

okay.

Wow.

. Thank you for the messages in the chat room, by the way, Julia and John Watley,

jungle juice, jungle juice says I've had two shots and still haven't had it.

So there we go.

well we've got talk about, well, Elizabeth II, the funeral, the whole shebang.

And what does it say about our society?

Well, as somebody said, you know, out with one li with another Liz Trump in with an.

Liz.

Yes, that's right.

For those of us who recognize her saying yes, cause she appeared and the poor

old channel nine commentators from Australia were like, who's that lady

don't know, just least a minor Royal.

My understanding was it was from a distance.

They couldn't actually see her face.

Yes.

Well, the point was they were commenting on it from a position

where they probably had a worse view than what we had on the BBC feed.

This was the crazy part about some of the decision making around all this.

Like I think the ABC sent 23 people across there to cover this, , funeral.

And what do we end up getting at the BBC feed, which is of course exactly

what we would've wanted to get.

Anyway, mm-hmm, a complete waste of money.

Like I've just, I'm really losing sympathy with the ABC on a number of issues.

And when they cry poor about.

not having enough money and their budget being slashed.

I really am gonna look at this 23 people sent to the UK and go,

well, what was that all about?

Seriously?

You couldn't have done that.

Just relying on the BBC feed and having people in Australia comment

over the top of it, occasionally for an Australian perspective on some issue.

But I think for goodness sake, it was just, I wonder how many of those were

senior people and it was a junk it, yeah, just a junk it, no respect for

other people's money, anyway, you didn't watch it, Joe, I don't think.

Yeah, but, I've done my best to avoid it.

Yeah.

Lots of speculation about Megan Markle and what faux PAs she committed and

yeah, I, I see the headlines again.

Can't be bothered.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we'll try and talk about these issues and find the

broader context where we can.

Here's my hot take from the whole thing is that basically , our hard

wide pro-social emotions overrule cold, hard, rational thinking.

I think people really enjoyed, you know, let's face it.

A majority of people enjoyed the whole show and were probably in favor of

everything that happened, the lead up, and a lot of people, very emotional

with very positive views towards queen Elizabeth II and, and felt

everything was all very appropriate.

So there's a little, you know, a lot of what was done was definitely

in favor by the majority of people.

And you know, on the one hand you can say, this is an unelected ancestral, right?

Basically because her ancestors out fought and outlasted some other group

in some battle and going descendancy and you know, in a modern context,

the whole thing makes no sense at all.

But on the other hand you go, well, I think people look at the cooperation

and they're coming together.

And the prosocial aspect of that gives such good vibes to people

that that's what they like.

And they are enjoying that coming together as a community over something.

It doesn't really matter what it is.

So it's like, you know, football is a pretty silly thing.

When you think about it at the end of the day, kicking a piece of leather

around, but it's more the people coming together over things that is

a thing that really gets people in.

So, you know, if you want to affect change in this world, you have

to take into account emotion and.

and, and that's been one of the biggest things.

I mean, that was the reason for, whatever it was, atheist church.

Yep.

Sunday assembly or whatever it was called.

Yeah.

Camera islands.

Yeah.

Was, was people, people missing the cohesiveness of a religious group?

Yes.

And even if they didn't believe they still wanted to belong to a tribe?

Yes.

Yep.

For some reason it didn't work for Cam's Sunday assembly, although

it does work in some places.

So, it tends to work in the us where they're a lot more cohesive and there's a

lot more, social built around your church.

Yeah.

And, and I think we've managed to replace it enough over here.

Yeah.

And maybe people who had grown up with that who had left the church who were

looking to replace it with something.

whereas there were a lot of people here who.

Aren't looking to replace it cuz they never had it.

So yeah.

So I think that's my hot take is just, it impresses on me the value of people's

prosocial emotions, wanting to feel like they belong to something, the bringing

together of people, it's a hardwired prosocial feature of human beings and it

was on full display there and it accounts for a lot of what happened essentially.

so yeah, that's the hot take?

let's talk about other different things.

ah, bagpipes, Joe, I've got this standard joke about bagpipes.

I heard years ago, which was what's the difference between

bagpipes and a bag of onions.

And the answer is people cry when you cut up a bag of onions mm-hmm . But I have

to say the bagpipes were very, very good.

Like as they got ready to March off with her and all the rest of it and

the bag pipes came down at different times, is it I've learned from this

whole, if I've learned one thing from this joke is there is a time

and a place for bagpipes in oh yeah.

The Royal funeral.

Yeah.

Having been to the Edinborough, military tattoo, the lone

Piper up on the Ram parts.

Yes.

Is, is certainly, but you know, these people practice for hours

and hours, whereas your next door neighbor, who's just learning to play.

I, I can very much understand.

Yes.

Yes.

Roman says, Hey, don't criticize the musical traditions of my ancestors.

Oh, I'm well, , I'm being a little bit positive if I can about the bagpipes.

So that was one thing to come out of it.

It's interesting.

Bagpipes.

Aren't just Scottish.

Briney and France has a big, historical, linking to bagpipes.

I, I assume it was the Celtic thing.

Right because Scott's the Welsh, and the bras are all kelps and the Irish.

Okay.

There go.

oh look, I've got such a mismatch of things here and dear, isn't it, I'm

not operating at a hundred percent.

So we might be all over the shop in how we deal with this.

the whole media reaction to this.

I mean, it's been relentless and crazy , the sort of 24 hour continuous

rolling coverage of this event in the lead up that I would've thought

has been over the top, but today saw a poll come out from essential.

And the question was, which of the following best described how you

feel about the media coverage of the death of queen Elizabeth II

and the Ascension of king Charles.

The media coverage has given me more information than I need about

the right amount of information or less information than I need.

And the more information that I need was only 48%.

The about right.

Was 42.

And people who wanted more information was 10% based on that poll Joe.

Well, the majority wanted the same or more information than what they got.

Yeah.

But just, yeah, there's been multiple coverage, but how much

information has been in that coverage?

So you might have wanted more information and less coverage, less speculation

about who walked in front of who and broke protocol because of that.

And possibly a little more information about yeah.

Important stuff.

Okay.

Could have been a different question.

Have they gone overboard with coverage is a different yeah, exactly.

They true.

What have I got here?

Has this campaign, this, this media campaign, this relentless

coverage, has it reflected the majority view or is it out of step?

and which would be scarier?

So if it is outta step with the majority view, if we've got too

much coverage than what we wanted, then we are seeing an overt

demonstration of culture being imposed.

If it reflects the majority view, then we are seeing a demonstration of irrational

culture that has against all odds successfully been imposed or maintained.

It's probably it's one or the other, and I'm not sure which one is, is, is scarier.

you know, if you are wanting the existing power structures to be

maintained, then you would be encouraging the maintenance of the monarchy

and you would be encouraging this conservative coverage of everything.

I mean, there was barely, well, I, I have to admit, I didn't watch much

mainstream media in the lead up.

I watched the actual funeral service, but I didn't watch any of the lead

up, but my feeling is that there was no discussion at any point on the

ABC about the role of the monarchy.

And there was no criticism or critique of queen Elizabeth II

and what she's done other than.

very, very, very positive reflection of what she'd done.

There was nothing negative.

There was no even handed coverage of this.

It was just a very pro Elizabeth II coverage.

And what are you there for ABC?

If, if not, to give us, is this the time to be doing that?

I think of all of the people there have, you know, there there's been

very little to reflect badly upon her.

I think, she has been incredibly, positive in terms of what she has

done and what she's been unlike other members of the Royal family.

. Hmm.

and.

When Steve Irwin died, were, were there comments in the press

about whether he was really the bloke that he was held up to be?

And I, I think when people have died and, and it's a funeral

time, we tend to sanctify people.

Don't we?

Yeah, I guess it was just seven days of it or however long it was.

I guess in all that time that you've got to fill, at least you could put it

on and people don't have to watch it.

You know what I mean?

Like they could choose to watch something else at that point, there might be

other people who want to watch it.

So, you know, I agree there is a time and a place, but, the relentlessly positive.

Propaganda really graded with me, I guess I'd say.

So I felt it needed a balance of some sort, which you could only find on Twitter

or in the, I don't know the far outskirts of, of the web in obscure areas that

you really had to go hard looking for.

So, or, or getting arrested.

Yes.

Well, let's talk about that.

There was one young fellow, just in a crowd and he just started yelling out

something, the one lone voice, and he just got dragged out by police and.

Handcuffed and led away.

And there was another protestor who was silently holding up a sign

saying not my king mm-hmm and, also got led away by police.

And, so I'm kind of okay with that in terms of particularly people who

are yelling out, doesn't have to be abusive, but just yelling out,

not my king or something like that.

I'm kind.

How do you feel about that one, Joe?

I, so they were arrested for acting in a manner likely to

cause a breach of the peaks.

Yes.

A and that is true enough.

Yes.

I, I think there was a real risk that they would've been lynched.

Yes.

so I, I, I don't object to their voice.

I just think that there are possibly different places

rather than picketing a funeral.

Or outside Buckhouse that this should be speakers corner, for instance, which

is, you know, historically where you entered and spoke out politically.

Yes.

one of these guys was shouting at prince Andrew, I think making comments about him

being a pedophile or something like that, was sort of comment that he was making.

Yeah.

I, I don't know again, had that been an average day.

Yep.

but when it's a, when somebody's loved one has just passed, I don't know

that that's necessarily appropriate.

It's like picketing at funerals.

Mm, yep.

I, I, I think it it's, you have a right to a voice, but there's a time and a place.

Yeah.

Well, if it happens in here in Queensland, Joe, we've got a summary of fences

act, section six, subsection two.

you commit a public nuisance offense.

If you behave in a disorderly way or an offensive way, and your behavior

interferes, or is likely to interfere with the peaceful passage through or enjoyment

of a public place by member of the public.

So, a disorderly way or an offensive way for conduct to be

disorderly, it must be sufficiently ill mattered, or in bad taste.

It does not only have to meet with the disapproval of well conducted and

reasonable men and women, but also tend to annoy or insult such person

sufficiently deeply or seriously to warrant the interference, of the police.

So.

Ill mattered, bad taste, meet with the disapproval of well conducted

and reasonable men and women do that.

And you're on your way to a disorderly, well, public nuisance based on disorderly.

and how old was that law?

Oh, it's current.

Isn't it?

Queensland.

So I just wondered if it was a, yeah.

It's commonly used law, I believe.

Oh, it's not obscure.

Yeah, that was, that was the Canadian.

That was a female blonde Canadian who was very right wing.

Who was walking through some very Muslim area of Sydney.

Yes.

Yes.

Who got moved on by the police and told that she'd be arrested for

disorderly conduct or something?

Yeah.

ill mattered, bad taste meet with the disapproval of well conducted

and reasonable men and women.

and it's all done in the circumstances.

So I think with that guy yelling out at prince Andrew, that he's a

pedophile, you know, amongst a crowd of people who were there just to enjoy

the procession and the higher risk that the crowd would turn on him.

Mm-hmm and that the high risk that, that would lead to some sort

of minor,, fight, breaking out.

Good idea by the police.

I think, and those who are sort of in favor of freedom

of speech is so important.

It it's cannot be,, restricted in any way.

It's, it's the ultimate thing that we must keep free at all times.

Well, you know, we'd restrict speech for different things.

I mean, just for foul language, if the guy was there.

just saying horrible, terrible foul language and all the rest of it.

We could, it could be carted away because of just a breach of,

of a public norm, essentially.

So back to how we value it, value public norms, probably

slanderous statements as well.

accusing him of being a pedophile.

The allegations were that he had sex with a woman who was over the age of consent.

Yeah.

Maybe he was consensual or not.

That's different, but, technically to call him a pedophile, I think

he's is definitely slanderous.

I think he was shouting at prince about his recent troubles.

I dunno, the word Peter fol was used, but right.

I think it was just, it has been, it has been liberally used about him.

Yeah.

And I think you need to be very careful.

Yeah.

Because I think those charges wouldn't stick.

Yep.

I mean, certainly it's morally reprehensible and there are possibly

other criminal charges, but I don't think that particular one is, is relevant.

Mm.

So the free speech advocates out there, I think I'd say, you know what,

that guy could go back there the next day and shout amongst to anybody,

whatever he wants to, sometimes there are just occasions because of what

the rest of the community is doing.

That maybe you don't get to have your free speech.

And if that was happening every day where you were restricted.

Okay.

But, well I think it's, the protests are about abortion places.

Abortion clinics.

Yes.

Yes.

Plenty of opportunity to protest wherever you like, just

not right there at that time.

Yep.

So yeah, that's all part of that.

I, Yeah.

Broman said initially, personally, I'm concerned about attempts to

silence, voices with a different view about the monarchy.

It's like reasonable free speech had to be suspended, but then goes on to

say, take your point, Joe and others after all, I'm sure no one here liked

that awful church used to pick at the funerals and gay service people in the us.

So there we go.

Yeah.

So you do have to sort of take him to count the circumstances and, and I

think that was a correct decision by the British police on that occasion.

mind you other forms of protest Joe and there were some good ones in,

now this I will find, let me just, find this particular video, which

was, I was a bit concerned by a lot of us Twitter commenters, right?

They were blaming her for colonialism.

Right.

and a she's the Monarch and doesn't have any power, but also B the

empire dissolved under Elizabeth, almost all of the colonies got

their freedom under Elizabeth.

So of all the people you could blame, I would say that

she's the least responsible.

Yes.

Is.

I mean, if you're gonna have a Monarch, she was one of the better typed to

have in that she wasn't the, she kind of looking at Australia and going,

why the hell haven't you guys left?

You know, that was the sort of view she had.

It seemed so she wasn't, power grabbing in that sense, wanting

to accumulate more colonies.

not that she would have any say in it.

You're right.

So I think she did look at it and think, well, that makes sense

if that's what you wanna do.

So give her credit for that.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm yeah.

Some of the, so Joe, apparently at football games, , they will sometimes

have a minute silence, but the alternative is that will have a minute of clapping.

Have you heard of this before?

No.

Yeah.

So, and sometimes I would've a minute silence followed by minutes clapping.

So at some football stadium, I think it was in Scotland or

it might have been Ireland.

I'm not sure where it was, but, the crowd knew that they were about to

have a minute of clapping for the queen and the crowd started singing.

if you hate the Royal family, clap your hands during the one minute clapping

session, I'll show you a bit of it here.

So.

I have given four marks for being clever.

I knew that these guys were compelled to clap for a minute and then

started a song saying if you hate the Royal family, clap your hands.

So, full marks for that one in terms of cleverness.

I wanna read some.

Twitter comments.

see if you agree with some of these, I think ABC news is misjudging the public

with their insufferable psycho Fantic and endless rolling coverage of the queen.

Who's going to tell them that we don't care that much about it turns out.

Obviously it turns out people did care, watching ABC news and wondering

if they now have deference police ensuring the Queens coverage is a

hundred percent foreign and gro without journalists ever asking the necessary

tough, but respectful question about the continued relevance of the monarchy

and it's placed in our constitution.

So Joe, you would say not the time yet for that, Marky lawyers.

It would've been nice to see just some genuine reflection on the Queen's life

and death, but instead our media is drowning us in performative perfunctory

D it's embarrassing and meaningless.

It was very syrupy, psycho over the top climb, but I was from what I saw.

Yes, it did seem to be Vaus I think is the word.

Yes.

Yes.

You could have been positive and respectful without

being so goddamn forming.

I think would've been possible.

I think, look, how does the queen rate, I mean, you, as you were

saying, she wasn't that bad.

I wrote here, she's an unelected Relic of an unfair medieval practice and has died.

She performed her ceremonial duties diligently her most notable achievement

was the length of her tenure.

I'll say it, it wouldn't be that hard to be in Monarch with no real power.

You just put on a show and leave the real problems up to the parliament.

So I'll excuse her from being complicit in the various atrocities of the

British empire during her reign, not a bad old bird, really for what she

had to do minded her own business, largely as far as a queen does, I

think she worked bloody hard actually.

Mm-hmm I mean, she, yeah, she lived her, her life for luxury mm-hmm , but

I don't think it was an easy life.

Mm-hmm I think there was a lot of expectation on her to always be smiling

and cheerful and, you know, opening public things or visiting sick people

in hospital and doing all those.

It's little but little things, you know, but she wasn't flipping hamburgers

at McDonald's no eight hours a day.

Like there's a lot of jobs, a lot harder than being queen.

There would've been tedious moments, but what job?

Doesn't no, but you know, it's not like she retired at 65 and had a pension.

Yes, that's true.

Yeah.

so I don't, I think it's a very different life.

I don't think any of us can really understand.

Yeah.

what it's like, I mean, you, you talk to the stars and they are very

well compensated, but you can't understand being chased everywhere

by the media who wants to take a photo of you in a compromising

position so they can splash it across the, the front page the next day.

Yes.

There's, there's a whole load of things that you just, until you've

lived it, you can't understand.

Mm, very different life.

I agree.

But, you know, I could think of a lot of, lifestyles that

would be a hell of a lot worse.

Oh, absolutely.

And, you know, growing up poor in some housing commission blocking in, in

somewhere in the UK or being the queen and you go, gee, you know what, there's

gonna be some tough moments being queen.

I think I'll take it.

I I'll run the risk.

Yeah.

So, ah, okay.

I mean, that's, that's the arguments I get into about prince Philip mm-hmm

uh, look, the man commanded a vessel in the second world war and then was

playing second fiddle to the queen.

Right.

And I think he was bored.

I think he made his comments in the full knowledge.

I think he was just being a little mischievous because that

was the only freedom he got.

Yes.

I suspect he was quite bored and And probably cocooned in a bubble.

Like he was, maybe didn't realize exactly how some of his comments

would quite be taken as well.

So combination of that,

we've been very positive about Dan Andrews over the years.

Love Dan Andrews.

He's doing a good job down there.

Mostly.

Yeah.

So there's a hospital, Joe in Victoria, the Maronda hospital named after

some indigenous, it's an indigenous name of some sort dunno it's named

after actually region name or human.

Yeah.

I don't know, but it's an indigenous name.

It's currently called the maroon hospital and it's gonna be upgraded.

And when they upgrade it, they're then gonna call it the QE two.

Why?

Cause cruise wasn't enough.

Yeah.

There's, you know, there's already QE two hospitals running around.

Honestly.

I dunno if that decision will stick, what's wrong with, I mean, whatever

it was named for in the first place, just leave it at that, improve it.

We just don't need more things named after queen Elizabeth II.

Surely all goes down to this, cultural propaganda.

Mm-hmm , it's this, you know, just yet another public institution named

after a Monarch, just entrenches the whole rock show even further.

And, it, it's not meaningless.

These things add up and count at the end of the day.

So leave it as it is.

that's the sort of thing I'd have expected from Scott Morrison.

Like you would've expected him to come out and rename something after QE two, after.

All this and we would've sat back here going you typical bloody Monicas bastard.

Dan would never do that.

And then look at that.

He's kind of done it.

Yeah.

Braw reckons.

It's just a, Gazo the, the liberals.

Oh, okay.

He doesn't have to before they could.

No, he doesn't.

He doesn't have to.

They're already in strife.

So, because they've got an opposition leader, right?

Run stacking.

No, they've got an opposition leader.

He thinks king Arthur is a real thing.

Joe.

Hear about this one.

I'll play this clip.

Hang on.

It was time to remember the queen alongside myths and legends in all those

times in all those monarchs from figures.

Well known king Arthur, Henry the eighth.

And so on the longest reigning of them all was queen Elizabeth.

The second God save the king.

Yeah.

King Arthur.

Yeah.

Interestingly, the French claim king author is theirs.

Right.

Really?

Okay.

I mean, that's what Dan's up against.

He didn't have to rename hospital QE two to get him over the line when you're up

against umbling Phils, like they've got the Victorian opposition, ah, just the

prince Charles hospital in Queensland.

Get an upgrade to the king Charles hospital.

that's what I wanna know.

Yeah.

Good point.

Maybe it does.

in the show notes for the patrons will be links to a thing about the palace letters.

So these were letters between, the, governor general, sir, John Kerr and,

queen Elizabeth through her private secretary at Martin charters around the

time of the 1975 constitutional crisis.

And.

queen Elizabeth tried hard actually to have those kept hidden, kept

secret saying they were private.

And Jenny Hawking had to go to the high court to get them revealed.

And it did show a high level of communication between, John Kerr

and prince Charles and the queen, basically indicating that they

knew what he was about to do and didn't do anything to stop it.

So if you're looking for a black mark against the queen, you could

head towards those palace letters.

You know, I actually read the sections they were talking about in the letters,

kind of wasn't as compelling as what the commentators were saying to some extent.

So there's a whole book about it that I haven't read.

but some people have said, oh, this is complete proof that, the queen knew what

was happening and did nothing about it.

And maybe it is, but just.

The bits that I read, not quite as compelling at first blush, when

you read it, maybe the book makes a better case than, than that.

I dunno, exactly was always 2020 anyway.

Mm-hmm and I've just been too sick to get into the weeds on that one.

So there is the area for people who really wanna complain about maybe

something the queen did, the palace letters, there's a bit of smoke

there, maybe there's fire as well.

saw this tweet, which said, please be respectful when talking about

the queen, she was ahead of state a Monarch, a mother to multiple

pedophiles, and most importantly, a devoted cousin to her husband.

So the cousin to her husband vet was the vet that got me.

so they were related.

Were they cousins?

Well, Prince Phillip, third cousins.

They were third cousins.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So prince Phillip was related to queen Victoria, as a great, great

grandson through his maternal side.

And queen Elizabeth was related to the same queen Victoria

through her paternal family.

So I had the same great, great, grandmother, which

makes them third cousins.

And Joe, I know what everyone's thinking.

How does that third cousin once removed type stuff, actually work,

keep hearing it all the time.

And are you up to, up to speed with all that?

I, I worked, trying to figure out family links a while back with my

second cousins and whether yes, they were multiple removed and who was what?

I actually looked it up.

Yes.

But yeah, it's, it's not obvious.

So do you listener first cousins share a grandparent.

Second cousins share a great grandparent.

Third cousins share a great, great grandparent and fourth cousins share

a, great, great, great grandparent.

So what you gotta do is count how many greats are in your common

ancestor and add one to find out what number cousin your relative is.

That's the easiest way.

And then the other issue is what does it mean when you say once removed?

And, the answer to that is think of it this way.

Your parents, first, second, and third cousins are also your first, second

and third cousins, but once removed that is because your parents and

their generation are one above yours.

So it basically takes into account where there's a generational difference.

So.

You might, share the same great, great grandparent.

And for the other person, it is just a great grandparent.

So your cousins, but it's a once removed situation.

So the once removed takes into account a generational difference

between you and the other person once removed twice removed, et cetera.

So, so anyway, they were, the queen and prince Phillip third cousins

and not removed at all because they were at the same generational level.

So I guess, his parents, for example, would've been her

third cousin once removed.

There you go.

All right.

what else have we got here?

Funeral event itself?

I quite enjoyed it, Joe actual funeral in the chat room to enjoy the funeral.

I mean, PO ceremony.

Also mentions to God.

I'm sure.

Well, this is, this is what I'm gonna get to, references to God in a funeral

are so depersonalizing, like a funeral should be about, the person who's died.

Mm-hmm stories about them and things like that for your average

person, Joe, for your commoner.

Like I hate going to funerals that are dominated by religion.

Not just because I disagree with religion, but because it takes up

time where people could have been talking about the deceased person.

And, I think though, in the case of the queen, this might

have been the rare occasion.

It was okay to have some religion because we've heard enough about her life.

I didn't really need to know any, this might have been the one

occasion where it was okay to do it.

because we just already, I, I was thinking Bron, she was head of the church.

Right.

Yes.

exactly.

She was head of the church references, unavoidable and where normally

at a funeral, I want to hear stories about the deceased things.

I didn't know, stories from their childhood or things that come

out where you think, oh man, I never knew that about then.

I didn't.

That's interesting.

I didn't really want any of that from the queen.

So the, the religious hymns and readings were not annoying in that sense of taking

time away from hearing about the deceased, but still Joe, the, just the, the readings

from the Bible are such nonsensical rubish that, that people are just a room full of

people just accepting and listening to.

Okay.

Honestly, I was tempted to just start reading extracts from

the first Corinthians verse.

That was one of the first readings.

I, I can't go.

I can't go there.

What a bunch of just gobbledygook nonsense.

Yep.

Mishmash of just rubbish.

I mean, it's like jazz singers doing this scat, like just

making up words D do to be duh.

they may as well be these things make no sense as you're reading king James Bible.

Yeah.

Oh, I dunno which one it was.

yeah, it just, accepted by the masses.

What can do, I, I understand that Chuck has actually made a sensible, speech.

England or Britain being a multicultural country.

And although he was head of the church, he wasn't just looking after the Christians.

He was, responsible for all faiths and those of no faith.

Okay.

Charles was probably quite progressive on a bunch of things like that.

Well, I heard he had a bit of a fetish for, for Islam, but it could

do, I mean, he was a bit wacky, you know, years ago talking about how he

would talk to plants and things, but he was probably an environmentalist

ahead of his time to some extent.

So like, let's face it, he's got some weirds shit happening there,

but probably got some aggressive things happening as well.

Yeah.

All sorts of just crazy stuff.

And I mean, having been brought up in.

A household and a lifestyle that he is, you know, you cut people some slack in

the way that I was giving, cutting some slack for, prince Philip earlier that

mm-hmm he's gonna say things that I gonna offend people because he's in a bubble

and he's got no idea of the outside world.

Charles is in a bubble.

Ah,

I mean full marks of the queen, I guess she was in that bubble as well,

but seemed to be relatively normal in many respects, full marks for that

enjoyed her dogs and her ponies and whatnot people who said that she was

incredibly up on current affairs.

If she had, she had weekly meetings with whoever was prime minister at the time.

And apparently she was across what was going on.

Mm.

Give occurred for that.

Mm-hmm yep.

My wife was worried.

She said, you look like to get on this podcast and just bagged the queen.

Are you.

No, I don't think I have.

I think I'm understanding.

Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

And you're keeping me in line, Joe.

Just good.

Yeah.

I mean, I remember the queen mum, when she died mm-hmm and I, I think there were a

lot of people who didn't understand, but, during the second world war, the, the two

of them as in the queen mother and the king at the time, mm-hmm, had chosen to

remain in London to live with the people.

And she was regularly out with the victims of the blitz and it

was, they could have chosen to disappear off and hide away and they

it's that that's the unifying thing.

It's the, they may be.

Born rich and, and live a life of luxury, but they are still part of the country.

They still come and see us in, in hard times.

Mm yep.

If you see sparks of humanity like that, it goes a long way.

Mm-hmm bit like David Beckham stood in the queue and , didn't,

pull the VIP card and go through the VIP Q, but, went the hard way.

Stood there, 12 hours, whatever did hear that.

people have been selling tickets right.

To see the, the coffin.

Right.

It hasn't come out that he did that.

So, no, no, not that he did that.

Oh, okay.

Because it was free.

Just queue up and go.

Yeah.

People sold their ticket.

If they left the queue.

I know, but you could leave the queue and go and get a coffee or

go to the toilet or something.

And then come back into the queue.

There was some way of.

Right regulating that.

But I, I think people were just selling tickets online as a commercial venture.

Oh.

To people who thought they could buy a ticket, right?

Yeah.

Okay.

Scalping for a ticket.

Oh God.

That's probably true.

Did you hear what, Donald Trump said?

I heard something about how the queen had never been so amused by

him at some state dinner on what a great time she'd had or something.

No, that, wasn't the thing I was thinking of.

Okay.

I mean, that's, that sounds perfectly plausible.

But he looked at where Joe Biden was sitting in the, in the, in

the AEY or wherever it's called.

He was quite a way back.

Wasn't a front row seat by any means it was way back.

And, Trump said, you know, if I was still president.

They wouldn't have put me back there.

I would've been up the front.

So it's just, he saw that as a slight on America, which would never have happened.

Had he still been president, right.

Would've been seated in a far better position than what they gave Joe Biden.

He'd been choked out.

Yeah.

So yeah.

Yeah, here it is.

so he's not allowed to tweet anymore.

So this must be on his Trump social.

He posted this truth, truth.

Social.

Yep.

Yes.

So instead of tweeting you truth, you send truths, send truths.

Yeah.

So he truth.

This is what happened to America in just two short years, no respect.

It's a picture of Biden way down the back.

However, a good time for our president to get to know the leaders

of certain third world countries.

If I were president, they wouldn't have sat me back there and our country would

be much different than it is right now.

That's the hot take from , Donald Trump.

What an awful man.

What an awful man.

Well, everything's always about him, isn't it?

Yeah, indeed.

It is.

Yep.

And Joe, did you see the piece of paper that fell?

No.

Oh, okay.

Well, I'll bring you up to speed on this one then.

So here we go.

So remember just blinking this over.

Yeah, it just, it's quick to remember how long.

So just during the middle of the ceremony, this Bishop dropped a piece

of paper and the paper then sitting on the floor and it's in the worst

possible spot for a piece of paper to sit because just the camera view of the

coffin and just slightly behind to the right is where this piece of paper is.

That's then just obsessed myself and my wife and probably 2 billion other

people watching the damn show going well, how's he gonna pick that up?

Like it was just a little bit too far.

You'd have to take.

A couple of steps forward to actually get to it.

And you're thinking, how are they gonna retrieve this paper?

And, oh my goodness.

And the, like, everything had been conducted with such military precision

and, and, yeah, one guy, basically, I dunno if he was a Bishop, but he

certainly had a Bishop's hat and the comments on Twitter were, well, he

couldn't move forward and pick it up being a Bishop, he had to move diagonally.

Mm-hmm is the problem.

Yeah.

So when can we start talking about a Republic?

How long have we got we've got our official morning period has ceased and,

the Royal family's got another seven days.

And really, I think what will have to happen is.

it's a bit like a shock doctrine.

You've just gotta wait for the moment when emotionally people will be

ready to discard the monarchy and it's just gonna take some incident

of some sort and then people need to sort of strike at that point.

So, cause it's just too much Goodwill at the moment.

I, I think Charles is probably the biggest risk.

I think if William gets in relatively soon, things will be shored up.

Yes.

Because William is the child of St.

Diana.

Yes.

whereas Charles was tarred with being the bastard who did her in.

True.

Yeah.

So I, I, I think now is it now is gonna be the dip if it comes.

Yeah.

It would, it would require some event of some sort, I think, to shift the

mood, cuz there's just a lot of positive vibe for the monarchy at the moment.

So the Republican movement may as well, just cool its heels for a while.

I think until something happens and be ready.

I don't know.

But certainly if you're listening to sky news, they're not ready for

a Republic, Joe, so you shut me.

Yeah.

This is what you'll get.

If you're listening to sky news.

I'll tell you what if you're Frank about the historical record guys,

decolonization was a bigger disaster for so many countries around the world.

So much more bloodshed violence, all sorts of chaos and Michigan that, that

you know that the empire itself didn't cause, oh, I wanna talk about this as

well, because it drives me nuts that, we educate people that the empire was bad.

I'm all for it.

Let's start a new movement.

Bring back the British empire, bring it back.

You look at countries like Zimbabwe.

You look at countries, in Africa like Uganda, where they

decolonized, as James says.

Disastrous results.

You look at countries like India and Pakistan, which have

struggled since the colonial era.

It's fine.

That's though.

That's, it's fine to say there were bad things that happened.

Of course there were bad things that happened, but look at the rule of law,

the establishment of look at what's happening now of infrastructure and so

on, and look at the opposite that has happened since the British empire with,

through, with that road, the British empire was a great engine of civilization.

Absolutely.

If you look at other empires, if you look at other empires, the French, the

Belgians by God, all of these other countries, the Spanish, you know, no

other European power created so many successful successor states to the empire.

There we go.

That's that's what LL friend Rowan, deans up to.

So no many, no other empire created so many successful states,

but all the states have failed.

Yeah.

And you know, this argument, well, you know, Sure they went in and colonized, but

then they left and look what a mess was.

Look, what a mess happened when they left.

Well, gee, you know what, when you tear down all the institutions that were

there previously and then, put in your own and then leave leaving a vacuum,

and maybe you've also reconstructed some borderlines along the way.

of course you're gonna get a chaos afterwards.

That's, that's what happens when you come in completely dismantle

a society and, and then leave.

So, so anyway, that's, that's the conservative view over at, sky news

getting quite rabbit over there.

yeah, I, I think that's a valid question in terms of, do we.

Take a poll saying, do we replace the current system with something else?

And that's our straw poll and that's a, yes, we go ahead and then decide what

model of government it's going to be, or do we side the model of government

upfront and then take that to the people?

Mm.

Because the problem last time was, yeah, people said, John Howard was being

cynical by putting too many options.

Yep.

but the question is, do we have a yes, no.

If you vote yes.

Does that mean you're painted into a corner with whatever

people decide afterwards?

Hmm.

And possibly get, you know, if, if, if the post monarchy system

is divided up 34, 33, 30 3%.

Mm.

Do you go with what 34% wanted.

Or do we say, right?

Not until we have a working model and we then take that to the pulse.

Mm-hmm, I've just lost faith in people's capacity to examine these things

rationally in any sense, Joe, like it just, it's all gonna be on emotion.

Isn't it?

Absolutely salesmanship of whoever's around at the time.

well of course we'll, we'll have so many millions back if we

leave, leave the Commonwealth.

Yeah.

And we won't have all those filthy foreigners coming over.

Oh, no way.

That was Brexit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

well, I'm about done with the Queens funeral, I think.

and we're gonna keep this as a relatively short one about a week ago.

Yeah.

We're gonna run through some other topics and and she's dead.

It's done and dusted.

I think the Republic will just have to let things cool down for a while.

Wait for.

Charles to make lots of mistakes potentially.

and wait for some trigger because there's a lot of good will for the

monarchy at the moment after all that that's gonna continue for a while.

So, alright.

Let's talk about some other things.

Joe, since we met KTOV died.

Yeah.

Any thoughts, feelings about goov the accidental bringer of democracy?

Mm.

I, I hear that it was totally unplanned.

It just happened.

Yep.

All of the, Russia watches, all of the people paid lots of money,

to examine the Soviet union.

None of them predicted the breakdown of the Soviet union

in such a short period of time.

Nobody saw it coming.

Essentially.

I've heard that.

The problem was they had spies inside the Soviet system and the Soviets

themselves were lying to the poll bureau.

And, and so they were getting primary information that was going to the poll

bureau and they were believing it.

And they thought that the Russian economy was in a better state than it was.

Yeah.

Well, my understanding is that nobody knew that Goel would do what he was gonna do.

That any idea that he would do what he did, there's no way they would've made

him leader, but, he got through a system when nobody thought he was that sort of

character and had they had any idea that he was, he would never have made it.

So he was an accident of history in a sense go job.

So, unfortunately that just led to us corporate Raiders, and the mafia.

Yeah.

basically.

Grabbing hold of that country, stripping the common wealth out of it.

And you get a cutin type character as a response.

Did you see the, who was the Russian opposition leader?

Noel nervous.

yeah.

Noel.

Yeah.

his documentary, which was incredibly badly dubbed, but was quite interesting.

And effectively what he said was Putin was put in power by the mafia

as a puppet and learned to their cost that Putin wasn't actually a puppet.

He took power and then demanded huge amounts.

And I mean, I, I almost half of their wealth, I think, right.

For them to carry on.

Yep.

So it's, it's now a mafia run system where Putin is.

Hoarding huge amounts of wealth, right?

Yep.

Wow.

If they thought he was gonna be a puppet, then they really got, well,

he was mind a functionary in the KGB.

But once a guy.

Well, and then he was in the mayor's office.

Yeah.

He was involved in the war in Cheney though.

So I think he showed some tough policies there.

So, anyway,

it was unforeseen what Gobi child would do that then led to a stripping

of the common wealth within Russia and then a response like we've seen, he

was close to ELs and I did see that.

Yes.

And, he sold off all the state assets at bargain prices to his.

Political mates.

Hooton did.

Yeah.

Ah, dear, another Russian oil executive died, fell from, died in hospital.

Well, actually just outside of when he fell out the window.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

And he's the latest in a long line of, potential Putin

opponents who have met misfortune, falling out windows and whatnot.

The daughter of one of Putin's allies died and it was allegedly

some Ukrainian spy and people were laughing about, I can't remember.

There was something funny that, the FSB had claimed about this person.

Right.

I can't remember it was a silly name or something.

There was, there was obviously no way they could have done it.

Right.

Okay.

So reveal mag OV He, fell from a window at a central clinical hospital, died

from his injuries that he sustained.

And, it wasn't immediately clear whether it was an accident suicide or caused by

foul play, but it did happen in, it did happen the day that, Putin visited him.

So anyway, and he had been outspoken against the war in Ukraine?

Yes.

Yeah.

A lot of things adding up there.

what else have we got here?

Biden gave a rally, which had a lot of fascist imagery in it.

A lot of red stuff behind a lot of military.

Trump is having a rallies lately and his supporters are holding up a single hand

and a finger in something that looks like it's an imitation of a Nazi style.

Salute is happening now regularly at Trump rallies.

So the United States continues to deteriorate, is in the EU is taking

140 billion worth of taxes, from energy companies and winful tax.

Yes, I think I did see that.

So, so they just took 'em off it and said, took it off them

and said, thanks very much.

I believe they're passing it back onto consumers, right?

Liz trust.

I mean, since we've been talking since last we spoke, Liz trust, I think is even.

Yeah, I think you as well.

Yeah, she wasn't a prime minister.

I mean, just, just another one of these Boris Johnson, Donald Trump, Scott

Morrison, people who shouldn't be in charge of a used car sales yard, let alone

a country, the caliber of people that is getting into the position of power.

It should be frightening to people.

and she's just another example of it.

And as a particular fascination with Margaret Thatcher and neoliberalism, so

UK fucked at the end of the day, like it's there bang you was a great woman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, their removal from the EU, the difficulty in exporting stuff.

the power costs are leader.

Like Liz trusts.

They're just heading to rack and ruin.

And it's just gonna be a question of how long will it take, climate change

wise, Joe, we're seeing lots of stuff.

We've I think mentioned before, droughts in UK, France, parts of

Europe, the Midwest in America.

I was gonna say somewhere in America, they're finding bodies in a lake

that hasn't been it's it's down to 30% capacity, which hasn't been

since it was built in the seventies.

Yep.

And they keep finding bodies in there.

Yep.

As bits, dry out.

Yep.

Flooding in Pakistan.

like we are now seeing some enough events.

I think maybe climate change has reached, a bit like voluntary assisted dying,

managed to get through legislation.

When enough politicians had had real life experience of a

relative, it had a tough death.

They could go, oh, I understand this because it's happened to me or it's,

it's happened to somebody close to me and maybe with climate change, we're starting

to get to the point where, where our leaders are gonna know enough firsthand

experience of climate change events and massive sort of, climate events that,

and people will that they're, they'll be ready for voting for some change.

Maybe I, I dunno.

I, people have always had tough deaths.

It's not like suddenly dying became harder.

So I, I don't know that that was what changed it.

You don't think so.

Mm-hmm and with the climate change, they always, they, they just fall

back on the old, we've had hot spells before we've had droughts before.

Mm-hmm it, it's not till you, I mean, there was a, a graph I saw very recently,

which was the number of excessive heat days or something in California.

And you go back to the 1950s and there was one every two or three years,

and now there's 20 a year and you can see the increment through the years.

It's not that high temperatures have got any more high.

It's just the number of days where you have these extreme weather events

just becomes more and more each year.

Mm-hmm I think.

Yeah, I think the, and, and the same with Alania.

This is the, apparently there were three triple year S on record

mm-hmm and the last one was 74.

Yeah.

And we're ready for our third one now.

Mm-hmm yeah, just going back to though, we've always had tough deaths, just,

modern medical science, enabling people to hang on longer than, longer and

longer when they're in a bad state.

I think that's a relatively recent sort of thing that.

I, I also think we've become less used to death.

Mm.

yeah.

Historically you'd have lost a sibling or you'd lost.

Yeah.

I, I remember at school, one of my classmates died of leukemia.

I, I think we are much more shielded from death than historically.

Yeah.

Yep.

So I think, we've been shielded from the climate through air conditioning

and through, other mechanisms of civilization, but there's gonna be some

events coming up soon and are happening now that I think that's starting to

turn people around, but we'll see.

I, I did see the second, passive house is being built up

Toowoomba and that is a building.

It's a European building standard where effectively, I think they said.

The whole house can be called with four kilowatts of air conditioning, right?

Yeah.

it's just building to proper standards rather than, I mean, I was shocked when

I moved over here about how lightweight building is compared to Europe.

Yeah.

I, I say to people like coldest winter you'll ever spend is in a worker's cottage

in Brisbane, in the middle of winter.

Cause the wind just rattle through in the chat room, noisy, Andrew says, did

Bob Polk not have a drug affected son?

And that's why Australia got at least harmed drug policy

rather than zero tolerance.

Maybe not sure.

So, a noisy, Andrew also says I've us mates who swears that

the us civil law is not over.

That's true.

They're heading for one, Botley the wizard also the amazing Aboriginal actor

died, but Queenie drowned that out.

No respect.

That's true.

Lots of other news has been completely drowned out and

we're guilty of that as well.

I guess in my defense, I've been really sick and I'm gonna call a time on this

podcast earlier in the normal cuz.

I'm still not quite a hundred percent as you can probably tell.

and Braman had said you wait Trevor, it's not over yet.

The coronation is next year coronation next year.

Is that for prince Charles?

Would that be, they would be for Charles.

So do they wait that long?

Do they?

probably right.

Okay.

All right.

Ah, look, there's lots of things on the list there, but I'm gonna call it

a quick one cuz I'm still scrambled in my head and I can tell that we are

just all over the shop on this podcast.

, but I think I'll be back to a hundred percent next week and we'll

see what we'll come up with then.

So sorry for this short abrupt end, but I'm done.

signing out.

Talk to you next week.

Have some rub that'll help.

Yeah, I'll do that.

Bye now.

Bye.