Featuring writer Nancy Grier Abercrombie, the cast at Big Emotions discusses family pranks, nostalgic memories, and childhood stories. Little Women, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Cat's in the Cradle; what does this art have in common? That's right; themes of familial love are the topic of this 2nd installment.

Luke 0:10

Hi, everybody, my name is Luke Jackson. And I'm the current arts desk editor here at the Chrony. And this is big emotions, episode two, our arts desk podcast. We have an amazing co host and our amazing producer with us today. And also one of our wonderful writers is here, and I will let them introduce themselves.

Eliza 0:31

Hi, guys, it's Eliza. I'm excited to be back. Thank you for having me again.

Grier 0:38

Hi, I'm Greer. I'm excited to be here. So thanks for having me.

Eugene 0:42

Yo, I'm Eugene. I'm the producer, as always.

Luke 0:43

Awesome. Thank you all for being here. We're so excited to have you here. And to talk today, I thought I'd read that quote by Ethan Hawke again, just in case this is your first time tuning in and you didn't listen to our first episode. So Ethan Hawke gave a TED talk a while ago called "Give yourself permission to be creative". And in this talk, he said "most people don't spend a lot of time thinking about poetry. They have a life to live. And they're not really that concerned with Allen Ginsberg's poems or anybody's poems until their father dies. Or they go to a funeral, or you lose a child or somebody breaks your heart, and they don't love you anymore. And all of a sudden, you're desperate for making sense out of this life. And has anybody ever felt this bad before? How did they come out of this cloud?" And so I really liked this quote, and the point that hawks brings up about art articulating and making sense out of these huge emotions that sneak up on us in life. So the purpose of this podcast is to explore those emotions, and the art that helps us understand and get through them. So today, we're gonna be focusing on familial love and all the joys and heartaches that come with being a part of a family. So Grier, what drew you to talk about this, these emotions?

Grier 1:45

Yeah, I just, I thought there's a lot of media related to it. It's very relatable, you know, like, everyone has a family. And it's a pretty big part of my life, because I grew up like, with all my family, pretty much living like in the same neighborhood or down the street. So, I felt like there was a lot to talk about for it. Yeah.

Luke 2:03

Totally. I mean, it's like, so forming, right? It's literally everyone you spend time with, right? Your formative years. Yeah. So I agree that it's very, very deep and important topics or so to talk about it. But before we dive into the art that we'll talk about today, let's talk about our families a little bit, kind of just like introduce the basic structure of your family, and the worst thing you ever did to your siblings slash your family as a kid, I can start so my family, I am the second of five kids. So I have an older brother, a younger brother, a younger sister, and then my youngest sibling is non binary. They're all adults now, which is really interesting. And so I spent most of my time with my older brother and my younger brother, we are just the closest in age. But the worst thing I ever did is I really liked to scare them. My little brother when I was a kid, I would like wait by the stairs and pop out on him. Because I thought it was funny because I was not always the nicest kid. But I remember one time, this was probably the meanest thing I ever did. So it was we we shared a room and so I put like pillows on my bed to make it look like I was in bed. And then I got in his bed and like went up against the wall. And I hid there and waited till he crawled into our, into bed. So he like got in bed and he got comfy. He thought everything was safe in the world. And I spooked him and he like literally shot out of the bed like a cartoon.

Eugene 2:03

How long did you wait?

Luke 3:02

Probably, like, enough time to make him feel safe. You know what I mean? I was pretty good at it. I, My timing was pretty great. I felt pretty proud of it cuz I thought it was a good scare. But looking back, it was probably pretty terrifying. So I feel bad about that, but, can't win them all.

Grier 3:26

You're a menace.

Luke 3:27

Yeah, can't win them all.

Eliza 3:29

Oh, it's me. Okay. I had recently when it was like a few years ago, I was like 15 or 16. I had gotten an iPad, I think for like my birthday or for Christmas or something. And my sister was using it one time when I like wasn't using it. And so she was just like, goofing around. She like had stacked like a bunch of books on her head as well with my iPad, and she was going back to like our rooms. And she lost like balance and all the books and my iPad fell onto the ground. And it cracked like the whole screen. And I was so mad that I ignored her for like, like almost a week and I felt bad because she was like crying every day like trying to get me to talk to her. But I, like, when I'm angry, I can be really mean and so I just was upset about the iPad. This is your younger sister. Yeah, she's 16. Now I have two little sisters and then one older brother, but she's my best friend. So we're good.

Grier 4:27

Um, I just have an older brother. He's four years older than me. Like we'd play video games together growing up, stuff like that. But I'm really close to my cousin. She's, we're like two months apart. And we grew up in the same neighborhood. I remember when we were like eight or something I had. I had bunk beds. So like in the space between the two beds, we just decided to treat that as our canvas on the wall and took Sharpies and it was like a family dinner too. But we just were in my room and we like put a line down the middle on the wall and just had two different spaces to just draw on the wall. But then my parents walked in and they discovered it and my dad was kind of proud or I guess he just thought it was funny. But my mom was definitely upset.

Luke 5:05

Is the Sharpie still on the wall?

Grier 5:07

No. For a while I just covered it with posters because then I felt bad. I was a little embarrassed. But then we just painted over completely. So-

Luke 5:13

I love that.

Grier 5:14

Yes.

Luke 5:13

So as we were prepping for this episode and talking about the different media and art we were going to bring up, we kind of realized a running theme of a couple wonderful artists that we all kind of relate to. And I'm sure everyone does because their, what they create is so family centric, and they really just get it. So these two people that kind of we kept bringing up are Jane Austen and Greta Gerwig, obviously, very, very talented. I mean, Jane Austen is probably like the most well known female writer of all time.

Grier 5:17

Yeah-

Eliza 5:17

Yeah. I'd say so.

Grier 5:20

I think so, yeah.

Luke 5:25

Right? Probably? Most formative? And then Greta Gerwig, is just taking the world by storm. And she's fantastic. And so one of the movies that Grier wanted to talk about was a lady bird. And so do you want to introduce Lady Bird and kind of what that movie means to you?

Grier 5:55

Yeah. Um, I definitely just see it as what is just like a coming of age movie. And I think it was important to me like watching it as a teenager, you know, growing up, and as my relationship with my mom is like changing. I feel like a lot of teenage daughters have like a phase where they kind of just, they were always fighting with their mom, you know, she's always disagreeing. So that movie just meant a lot to me because of the relationship between Lady Bird and her mother. And I related to her because I wanted to, like go out of state completely for college, like, get away. But now it's kind of like, you know, you miss your family when you're away from them. And I think ladybird did as well. So I don't know. I just think Gerwig really, like she just depicted the relationship. So well. Just it was so genuine.

Luke 6:40

Yeah, it was so real.

Grier 6:41

And same with like Barbie and Little Women. I don't know. She just-

Luke 6:45

She doesn't miss.

Grier 6:42

-keeps it real. Yeah!

Luke 6:45

She doesn't miss. Yeah. I love the beginning of, I think it's right at the beginning of ladybird when the mom's like laying into her about college and where she's gonna go, and she like, jumps out of the car. Like-

Grier 6:57

Yeah! She just like, ok.

Luke 6:58

Right? I feel like I've definitely wanted to do that as a teenager. Yeah. So I think it was so funny that she depicted that. So it is it does feel very, very real. Are you far away from your family? Like, are they...

Grier 7:09

Yeah, they're all in Charleston, South Carolina.

Luke 7:11

Ok.

Grier 7:11

So it is a bit of a journey. Yeah.

Luke 7:13

Yeah. So I'm pretty far away as well. I'm from Canada. And I totally know the feeling of the first time you leave home and you like arrive at university and you're like, finally.

Grier 7:23

Yeah.

Luke 7:14

And then you like, wanna cry and go back home.

Grier 7:24

But then later, yeah, go back home!

Luke 7:27

You're like "This is so hard!" I think at the end of the movie, when she's in New York, and her suitcase, or like, the letters from her mom that her dad put in there or something. And I just, yeah, it's like, all of a sudden it comes back. Like, I wish I could go back one more time. But you can but yeah,

but yeah, it's different than you really realize how much your parents do for you after you leave. Especially your mom. And I think that ladybird like really captures that relationship. And Little Women was one that Eliza and I both wanted to talk about, as well, because it's such a beautiful movie. I've never read the book, which I know that I need to.

Eliza 7:59

Yeah. I have the book as well. My sister actually gifted it to me, and it's so cute, but I haven't read it either. But it's I love that movie. It's so good.

Luke 8:08

Yeah, what about it speaks to you?

Eliza 8:10

I just think like, the sister relationship. Like I said, I have two younger sisters. So like seeing that movie, it was just so like, real and honest. Like, I don't know, it's like, kind of funny how like, there's that one scene with like, Amy and Joe where like, Amy like, destroyed.

Luke 8:29

Yes! Yes.

Eliza 8:29

Joe's right? And then after like she was Joe went to go. What was she doing? She was...

Luke 8:36

Going ice skating.

Eliza 8:37

Yes. And Amy was just like, following her around. Like, I remember that was like my little sister. Like, when I would go out with my friends. My mom like forced me to take my little sister with her like with me. So like, I'd be at my friend's house and my little sister like on their couch. I'm like this is so embarrassing guys. But like, it just was so real. Because it's like you always want to be with like your big sister. And that's how I saw it.

Luke 9:02

Well, and it's so tragic, too, because Amy falls in the ice and starts actually dying.

Eliza 9:06

Yes!

Luke 9:02

I do think it's funny because it does really capture that grudge that you hold against your siblings, right? Like, I know that I've held, I feel like bigger grudges for my siblings over smaller things like no one ever destroyed my most prized possession, but I think I think it just captures so well that it really will take like, danger and the fear of death for you to be like fine.

Eliza 9:07

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Luke 9:30

Yeah. I love that movie. I think it's like the perfect Christmas movie. And it's super special for me. Because I saw it when my wife and I were dating. She came back to Canada for Christmas with me and we all saw it. It was like the first time she was like the first time we were there. We went to the movie theater and she saw it with all of my family and there was I can't remember what point in the movie it was but like I looked over and like my mom, both of my younger siblings and my wife were all just bawling. Just bawling their eyes out and so like as much as like the movie itself has so much about family like that moment is so important to me because I think it captures the relationship of sisters in a really amazing way. And I think there's something super special about, like just the sister, a sisters relationship is, it's so, as I've talked to my younger siblings, as they've grown up, they are really are, like they were so mean to each other. But they are best friends, right? And I feel like this, that little women really captures that feeling of like being kids with someone and growing up and like genuinely sometimes hating them. But then as you get older, you just, and you watch your siblings change into real people. It's this really beautiful thing. And they have real personalities and real interests. And you just love them so much, because you didn't like them so much. And so it's fun watching that on screen. And then it's fun too, because I'm kind of at that stage in my life where my youngest sibling just turned 18. And they just started their first semester at university. So it's so fun, like watching these formative years as an older sibling, because I really relate to like Joe and Amy the most. Like, I guess Amy's younger? She's third.

Yeah, I think so.

Is Meg the oldest?

Meg is the oldest. Yeah. Meg's the one I relate to the least.

Really? Okay.

Who's your favorite March sister?

Joe, I think?

I think Joe?

Joe Yeah.

Also sort of Saorise killed that role.

Oh my god.

She's amazing.

Yeah, so so good. Yeah. And I think another, like Jane Austen also captures this really well of just like growing up with your siblings, something that she hits so well, for me, I wanted to talk about Pride and Prejudice a little bit. It's not my favorite Jane Austen book. But I think it's probably the most popular I would say.

Definitely.

Yeah.

But I think what it does so well is it does this really amazing thing where it makes the family like a hearth, like a safe place. Right? And I really relate to the dad in that book. Have you read the book, Eliza? I don't think you have.

No, I haven't.

You've seen the movie, though.

Yes.

Yeah. I think like the dad's not in it a ton. But I feel like he's so formative because he's so sarcastic. And he just loves his daughter so much, and he just wants them to succeed. And that's just like that, that familial love, and just that safe place, is really how I felt growing up, even though like, whatever. I probably didn't treat my parents like that. But I think that just does this really great job of making family feel like a safe place, even though they're present like the books not about, like Jane Austen never writes specifically about family, right? It's always like, a deeper romance plot?

Wedding plot, marriage plot.

But the way that she is able to articulate families, being there for you, I think is super, super beautiful.

Like, you can always just go back home if you need.

Exactly, exactly.

That's beautiful. I really liked the sibling relationship in sense and sensibility with Eleanor and Marianne. And like, obviously, it's the dichotomy between Sense and Sensibility, which like they personify. And I kind of felt that with my cousin, who I brought up earlier, because she was always like, this sense of- sense- of, Oh, my God, sensibility. And I was more of a sense growing up. So I really admired like, her passion, and her emotion that she always like, was just so free to exhibit. So just reading that really hit hard to. I really appreciate John and Jane Austen, for depicting these relationships.

There's a reason that her books have lasted forever and timeless. Yeah, because they really are timeless. They're so fun to get into. And this is like, this is maybe a silly transition. Another piece of art, and I'm going to call it art, and I will defend it. I feel like Ninja Turtles as a media also does this super well? Is like this exploration of different personalities and with your siblings, and also like, but also like the unit that comes together when you kind of accept those things and the strength in your relationship when you accept your differences. I don't know. Like, I watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles like the old 80s cartoon all the time. And it was introduced to me super young. And I think there's something so special about it. Like I watched the new movie today. And well, it wasn't my favorite. Like, towards the end. There's just this moment where Raphael goes to Leonardo and it's like, "You finally did it. You're finally a leader." And I was like weeping like "He did it! These turtles!" So I just like it may be silly, but I think I think kids media is a really rich trove of like, family love, because that's what you can relate to as a kid. In my experience with watching Ninja Turtles. It does like capture that because it's for kids. So so much of it is silly, but are just those touching moments. Going back to watch it and it's probably mostly nostalgia. But you go back and watch you're like, yes, yeah, you get it. Like that's where I get that from. And there's this one moment and they did a live action Ninja Turtles in like the 90s. And the turtles are wearing costumes. Like they look bad. It's not, like at one point they open their mouth and you can see like the human eyes. It's a great, great movie and there's this one part where they're All just like sitting in a room and Michelangelo Who's my favorite, he's eating a chocolate bar. And Raphael, like turns to him, and he's just like, "Hey, Mike, can you eat that chocolate bar any louder?" And he like just leans in and just like, CRUCH! just like stuff like that where it is just like silly and malicious and dumb, but it just captures-

Just like, a sibling relationship.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. They're so special.

Oh yeah.

And yeah, I'm grateful that I'm at an age where we can because I don't know, it's hard being in and when you're young. So it's it's nice to be at an age where you can look back and appreciate who they were as people. Because you didn't, I don't know, I did a bad job of doing that when I was young. I wanted to highlight the song that Greer brought, as well, because it's like the most classic family song of all time. Do you want to speak to that? Grier?

Yeah, it's, um, Cats in the Cradle. I just remember listening to it in the car with my mom. And it, it's between like a father and a son. But I feel like anyone can relate to it, just the relationship with your parent and like, growing up, you want to be like them. And it is a sad song.

Super sad.

Because you know, you grow up being like them as them, like, you kind of drift away from your family. So it's kind of sad to think about as a kid, like, we are going to maybe drift apart as we get older, you know, we move away move apart. I feel really lucky though. All my family is like in the same area. So we all kind of do things together still, but I think the songs that you guys brought up are definitely more like hopeful with all they-

overall messaging. Yeah.

Like, Family.

I think cat in the cradle, because it's, it's mentioned in other movies a lot. And other media and I think it's so funny because it just like "The cats in the cradle and the silver spoon" Like, I think they sing it in Shrek?

Really? Oh my god.

Oh my god!

That how, like, I remember hearing about it. And I remember listening to the song. And it's so, because the lyrics are silly, because they're like children's rhymes. But it's such a sad, no, it's an honestly unhopeful song about a relationship. And I don't know, I remember listening to it as a kid. And you're like, wow, like, part of me was like, "Yeah, Dad, if you don't spend time me..."

I won't spend time with you.

With your child?

Yeah. Exactly.

But, I do think there is something to it as well of like, wanting to avoid that, right? And being like, okay, the time we have now is important. Yeah. And like, I want to be like you and taking advantage of that even as a kid. But I don't know, moving into like, I mean, I think I'm probably, I for sure I'm older than both of you. I am like, I've been married for three years. And so now like that I'm moving into a phase where like, my wife and I are considering starting our own family having kids that song is like, it's almost like haunting.

Yeah. Don't wanna end up like that, yeah.

But that idea of watching you is like, literally, the song I brought is called Watching You. I'm from Alberta. And it's like a very farmer, while like, I don't like the word hick. Because everyone's super nice. But it is like blue jeans and cowboy hats and cowboy boots. So everyone listens to country music and Watching You is the song by Rodney Atkins. And listening back to it. I don't know if it's a good song. Like, I don't know If I would like listen to it, and jam, but it is, It's the song about this guy. And he's in his car at the beginning. And he's just like, talking to his son. And I think at one point in the story of the song, he's like driving and he slams on the brake, and the son has McDonald's and it like flies out and gets all over the windshield and the shot and the son swears. And the dad's like, "where did you learn that son?" Like, where did you learn that? He's like, "I've been watching you dad." And so the lyrics of the chorus are like, I've been watching you, dad. Ain't that cool? I'm your buckaroo. I want to be like you. And so it's just all about like wanting to be like your dad. And I love my dad, my dad's amazing. And so like, I've always related to that. And since it's a country song, and my dad, like wears cowboy boots, and one of my earliest memories is like wearing his cowboy boots. And so it's like very, very relevant to me personally. And it really just does capture that, for me like father son relationship of like that. I'm very lucky to have like a positive male role model. And someone who like shows me that he like he really loves my mom. And he really like loved my siblings and my sister. And so it's just like, again, as I'm at this point where I'm potentially becoming a dad, it's like, not that I'm like, coming at that anytime soon. It's on the mind. It's like, that's what I want to emulate. And so it's become especially relevant, but my younger brother feels the same way. And he actually brought this song to my dad and it was listening to it was like, "Dad, like, I really feel like this about you." And my dad said, "Cool."

That is such a dad response Like, ok.

Such a dad rsponse like, okay, great. Yeah, that's a very meaningful song for me. Eliza you wanted to bring up a song by The Great, the GOAT, Dolly Parton.

Dolly Parton. Yeah. It's just called baby sister. I remember like going through my last breakup, me and my ex were like, on and off and my sister would just be like, "Why don't you just like end it?" And I was like, you don't understand but um, I think like with this song, you kind of I kind of see like her point of view. You are she's like, there's a lyric baby sister, what a waste to see you in this place. I lost my mind from worrying over you. I feel like that's my little sister like with me. And it's the same thing with her. Like she's doing all these things. And I'm like, okay, like, you need to be careful. Like, don't do that. But I don't know, I thought that song was really cute. Because it's like, they reminded me and my sister were like, we always worry about each other. And like, we're always like, why are you doing this? Like, like, at the end of the day, you like, get a greater insight and you're like, okay, like, I know why you're doing this, but it's a good song. I love her.

Yeah It's useful to have that perspective. Outside sibling perspective that will call you out when you're doing something stupid. Yeah.

I think those moments, and I don't know, Grier, have you had a moment, How much younger are you than your brother?

Four years.

Are you guys pretty close?

Kind of. I mean, we did stuff together growing up. We mostly bond over like video games. But, yeah.

Have you had the moment where you've like, given him advice?

No, well, he had a girlfriend when he was in high school that our whole family kind of

Classic.

Yeah, we weren't a fan of her. So we were nicely kind of telling him like, you need to kind of realize that you could cheat, you deserve much more, basically. So but that was kind of a whole family effort, I guess. But he did eventually realize and they broke it off, thankfully. But um, yeah, no, it does definitely go both ways. Where you, like, guide each other? Despite the age difference. Yeah.

There's something so special about like when a younger sibling is like, knock it off? Like part of you is like, I'm your older brother.

No better? Yeah.

I don't know it is. It's a very interesting moment when you realize that your younger sibling is like, I don't know, a smart person? Right, like an intelligent being?

Yeah, it's like they have this protective instinct as well, when it's like, this should be the other way around. But like, it does really open a different perspective, when they're like, hey, like, I'll tell you this, but it's like you, it's up to you at that point. And like, wow you're so smart.

It's fun to see. And I don't know, part of I guess, like, maybe this is me being selfish. But sometimes like when my brother or my younger siblings do something smart, and I'm like, I helped

That was me!

You followed my example. Or like, when it's interesting to you, and your siblings are in positions where, and I guess, I don't know if you've experienced this, because you're not an older sibling-

Older, yeah.

But like, having them go through something that you went through and being, and trying to talk to them about it. But like, the reality is, they're going to do it anyways. Like, I think that's such an interesting feeling, too.

It is.

It's like, my younger siblings, just starting university and whatever. They're having all of these fat, classic first semester, issues like that everyone has. And so I got to a point where I was trying to give them advice, but then you just get to a point where it's just is like, I love you. You're gonna do great.

Yeah, no, exactly.

Because, I mean, they're not gonna listen to you, and they're gonna figure it out. Just, it's tough sometimes.

it is tough, but... they've got it.

They got it.

I remember my brother when he was going to college, my mom got some like, book that was like, 'how to survive college' or like, whatever tips. He wouldn't, like, touch it, you know, he wouldn't read it at all. But I was like, I have to help them. Like, I need to give him the tips from this book. So I was like, going through and like Jack, like, remember all this stuff? You need to do this. So I mean, yeah, like, you do want to help. You can, but it's sweet. It's just want the best for them. Of course. Yeah.

Exactly.

It's such, it's such a fun relationship. And I know that not everyone has that relationship. So I feel really lucky to have relationships with my family where like, I do genuinely love them.

Me too.

And it's hard to be around them all the time. Yeah, because some people have that. And that sucks. As we round out the episode I did want. I think we all wanted to do a special mom shout out just because I feel like moms, while they are represented in the media, sometimes there's a lot of negative portrayals. And moms do a lot of work. And I was telling you guys before the episode, there's this comedy special by Nick Kroll, which is also art, right? Comedy is art?

Yeah!

But he talks about moms, and he just talks about how we're so willing to like, I don't know, shut them down, because they give us so much attention freely. And so I thought we could end the episode with a shout out to our moms. And so Mom, I love you. You're doing a good job.

Yeah. I love you too Mom.

Thank you, mom. I love you. We definitely take you for granted. We do a lot.

If you're listening to this mom, you are an angel. I love you so much for being there for me all the time.

We'll probably still take you for granted but we said it so it counts, right?

We recognize it now.

That should get us to Thanksgiving. Well, thank you everybody for listening and, yeah. Goodbye!

Bye!

Bye!

Bye!