Shownotes
Welcome to the Mental Wealth podcast, where in this episode we're delving into the intricate ties we share with money.
Join us as we dig deep into our financial psyche and unravel the complexities of our monetary habits. We're delighted to have the insightful Philly Ponniah, a renowned expert in finance, to guide us through this enlightening journey.
Get ready to gain fresh perspectives and valuable insights. Tune in, and let's explore the fascinating world of finances together. Don't forget to give Philly a follow!
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Transcripts
Episode 41 - Relationship with money
Transcript
::Welcome to mental wealth, the podcast to invest in your mind. Here I will help you make sense of your mind and behaviours, giving you the tools to have your best life. There is so much to share, so let's get into this episode and explore another great topic.
::Welcome to episode 41. In this episode, we're going to dig deep and have a look at the relationship we all have with money. I've got a brilliant expert for you and I can't wait for you to listen. Hope you enjoy it.
::Well, Philly and I met recently at an event, and even though you are focused on money and kind of finances and things, you know, I'm obviously very interested in how people get through life. I suppose, really. And money has such a big part in that, doesn't it? And and.
::For me, the relationship that we have with money, but also the impact that money can have on relationships and I thought it would be a good topic for us to cover on this show and who better to have in somebody who focuses.
::On all of those things.
::Absolutely. Thanks so much.
::Brilliant. So tell.
::Everyone a little bit more about you and.
::Your background and.
::Who you are.
::Yeah. Well, thank you. I'm a financial coach with a background in investing. So I've been in the wealth management industry for 12 years and I predominantly help women with their finances.
::Lately I've had quite a few couples come to me too, though, so you know I'm I'm serving quite a lot of people on all sorts of issues. I think money is such a taboo topic. It's still not really talked about. A lot of the industry is not designed to be.
::Easy to understand and so I like being a bit of a translator and also help people get to the bottom of what might be sort of holding the.
::Yeah, definitely. Cause I think that's the thing when products, if you like, are being sold to somebody, it is having that understanding of what that actually means. And I know for some people it does really stress them out.
::Absolutely. Yeah. You can hear the same words coming out, you know, stressed, anxious. Some people you know.
::Really do worry about it. And again it's that point, but not talking about it, not really it up then it sort of festers. And then, you know, you might become secretive about certain things or just, you know, worry and that and then, you know, the impact that then has on your life is quite negative.
::I think the something.
::I see quite a lot of is.
:: ::How each specially if it is a relationship but but not necessarily, you know, in a family, how people have a different view of money. You know, some people in a couple might somebody might be a big spender and the other one's a real big saver and you know that in itself can create a problem.
::Absolutely. And there's some research done that are relationship with money tends to be formed in our in our sort of heads before the age of seven. So actually as an adult, you're coming, you know into a relationship with all that your experiences, all the things you've heard growing up and actually maybe one of you wants to say.
::Really safe and, you know, build up your money, not spend it.
::And the other one maybe never had money growing up, so now they're earning is really happy to spend it because you know we we react in different ways and some people want to repeat or go away from how they've grown up. But in a couple.
::It's really about communicating what you actually want to achieve together. Otherwise I think there'll be friction.
::Yeah, definitely. I think that's the key with most things, isn't it is to sit down and have those conversations rather than avoid them because they do build up. But I mean, I would be saying that for everything, if something isn't working for you in any relationship or family member, you know it is so.
::Damaging to, just stick with the.
::Getting it going round and round and round in your own head and not actually feeling because it builds up resentment. It fills up stress, more stress. So I think yeah, you know, I'm always a big fan of how do you create the space to have these difficult conversations or if it's a new relationship, how can you have that conversation particularly on money early on?
::Well, I don't remember this, but on my first date with my now husband, I apparently told him what I earned and I think psychologically I must have been thinking. I've got to put myself out as someone who, you know, self-sufficient earning and doesn't need, you know, to be in this relationship. So but it's I don't.
::Know I I.
::I don't remember doing that, but he does bring it up.
::Every so often.
::Brilliant. I love that. But I think that in itself, you know, let's touch on that. So that is a topic that people do talk about.
::Is you know who?
::Who is earning the most you know? Is it the male? And what? And if there is the male, what's the impact on the female? And then if it's the other way round, which obviously in this day and age, it can often be the other way around, what's the impact on that? What kind of things do you hear people say?
::Well, unfortunately the statistics are quite bad when the woman is the breadwinner. I think it can cause, you know, maybe unsaid. Resentment. Not always, but I think there there is. There can be maybe a.
::I don't know a sort of.
::A feeling of imbalance and it might.
::Be a threat.
::To the. You know, traditionally it would have been the man in the relationship earning more. So I think and typically when you find the sort of mental load of the household still falling on the woman, obviously the traditional relationship, then that can, I think cause more.
::Issues.
::Definitely. And I think there is. I'm always saying to people you know, even though.
::Women, we're very different today, we've, you know, broken most of the all of the glass ceilings we've kind of we're we're there in some ways and yet we're so not as well and I'm often talking about.
::When we're understanding relationships that the coding that comes from back in the day from, you know, all those caveman days, you know where where women were in a very different position that is still within us. But I think particularly within men that they still have that very kind of hunter gatherer approach to things. And when that is different.
::Because we're in a different space it it creates. Yeah, it does create problems.
::Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
::I think it's something else that I think is important for us to understand is the, I guess the imbalance around or the the fear around how much money ties people in to situations, whether that be a relationship.
::Or just a job, or you know that fear. I guess you must hear people talk about that they feel trapped because because of their finances and they can't make the decisions they want to make.
::Well, it's interesting because actually sometimes people don't stop to work out what they really need and you know, is it true that you have to stay in your job? Is it true that you have to work five days a week now it's working someone recently who's now gone to a four day week and it's, you know, not made an impact really in a monetary way, but actually the amount of freedom.
::Rather than waiting till she retires to start doing the things she enjoys, you know, actually she's now got one day a week to herself to do the things now. So I.
::Think.
::Similarly, I was talking to a photographer and it, you know, I didn't realise it takes a whole day to edit from a shoot. So actually the the what she's charging for one day ends up being two days worth of work. So little questions like what would it be to outsource that editing? You know, it was a fraction of the cost.
::Of the day's shoot, so you know it's just about finding different ways to.
:: ::You know, look at the situation and what is true. You know, question what is true, what what do you need, what's practical? And and quite often it isn't what you.
::Think or assume?
::And I think and for me that's because you are looking at it through the fear lens. So you know you, you you see I I can't leave that job. I can't set up my own business. I can't leave that relationship because you're looking at it and I think what you're saying is if you actually sit down and I guess you can talk a bit about how you would help somebody cause.
::Guessing that that's what you would do, you would actually sit down and get some truth about, OK, what does that look like?
::How do you want that to be? I guess that's what where you come in to help them.
::Definitely and and.
::Quite.
::Quite a lot of the time, it's not actually about the money. You know, a lot of what I do with people is is not about the money, so we'll need the practical element of looking, you know, what do you need? What do you currently spend? What would you like to spend? What would you like to do with your time? And I think an exercise that is really important.
::Early on when I'm working, people is looking at what you value. What are the things that when you're kind of on your deathbed, do you, will you be remembering? What are the things that really matter to you?
::And so that's a really good exercise that, you know you can do on your own. Get a blank piece of paper, maybe set aside 15 minutes, half an hour, and really visualise what you want and what's important to you because it might surprise you and you might see that how you're spending, how you're spending your time. So not just your money might be taking on a completely different.
::Of course, and actually isn't where you want to.
::Be I love that, and actually it's really made me think about.
::Time you know, you mentioned there about, you know, how do you value your time and what time do you want? Because I think so often money gets tied up with people's time. And like you say, what is the most valuable and don't know the pandemic has changed some people's views on time, hasn't it?
::People have taken that plunge of reducing the diary or making a big change in their maybe in their work situation.
::I mean just pausing and thinking about what is it, money that I'm focused on or is it actually quality time and how do I then balance balance it out so that I can have what I want and have the life I want.
::Absolutely. Absolutely, because you are.
::The one who really is the architect, you know of your life. And if you think of things being done to you or that you know, you're just part of the cogs of something, you know you you can have the power to stop and look at it. And I think that's a really important thing to.
::Remember, because once you're trapped in that fear and feeling trapped and that you don't have any options, you know it's going to spiral, and then it'll probably be another year, another five years and things haven't changed.
::What kind of things would, if somebody was listening to?
::This and they you know.
::Knew that they had questions or.
::So yeah, all the things that we've talked about, maybe they feel trapped in a job or a relationship. What kind of things would you kind of summarise to that you could help them with and how what what, what would it be different?
::Working with Someone Like You.
::Well, I typically look at, you know, how someone's living, what they want to achieve, and then quite often an important thing is remembering to sort of look for evidence of things where things are working or something is not working. And I think rather than as I was saying.
::Before with that.
::Lens of fear and actually not stopping to look and evaluate.
::Right. I think it's really about guiding someone through and asking them, you know, where I come in.
::And I think I.
::Help people. It's it's not often about the money and I said that before, but it it'll be more asking the right sort of questions to get them more onto the path that they really want.
::To be on.
::Money is a tool, but you know.
::Pays for things, enables us to know we're going to retire with enough money, but again, it's it's not the sort of most important thing. Money is often not the goal, it's the money. Gets you the freedom, the time, whatever you want is.
::Your thing, you know, car.
::Yeah.
::So I'd say.
::It's I kind of give.
::Give people the the space and the guidance to reflect and then think about where they want.
::To get to.
::I like that and I I think just moving it solely away from the money, you know, back in the day, you know, people just gonna have.
::Meetings with our bank managers, you know, and I think that that you know that would have given me dread because obviously that side of it is and how you know like the the.
::Way that we're.
::Thinking about this and and the way you think about this is that it's sort of the the gateway to whatever you want it to be and how do you plan so that you can?
::Have have that.
::Life, if you like, that you.
::Want absolutely and once we take away the.
::This sort of.
::Power of the money and and think about sort of what's what it what it enables us to do. I think that's when you get real satisfaction because it's yeah, it's not really to do with the money is the enabler, but it's not the sort of the be all and end all.
::Yeah, because there is so much there is fear, isn't there around?
::Money sometimes. I mean, you know, there are people out there who, you know, when the brown envelopes come, they don't open them because they don't want to know what's in them. And then the thought of that building up is eating away at them. And yet.
::They're not able to.
:: ::Whatever it is, be brave to look and what kind of mess then do people get into?
::Well, so a few of the people I've worked with in debt, the first step is really facing up to the reality and that can be a big a big step, but it's, you know, it'll only get worse if.
::You don't.
::Face it head on so.
::That those sorts of things will often come because something has happened in the past that.
::Was unpleasant to do with money. And you, you basically still want to avoid it. Yeah, so. So I would probably in that case.
::You know, uncover what feelings are coming up and deal with that first, and then think more practically about, well, actually, when do you want to be debt free? Some people in debt never even think about when they're going to be debt free because it's just something that they pay the interest every month and, you know, with interest rates as they are, you know, higher than they have been in in a long time.
::I think we're gonna see a problem in the.
::Country with just.
::People realising what you know the debt they're in the it's gonna cost a lot.
::More to have.
::So I think the message always has to be there is as hard as it is we we you've gotta you've gotta open those envelopes and find out what your truth is. I mean, I've seen people who, you know, they've had a, a, a prescription.
::That they didn't pay for. And then they ignore it and this thing that was £7 is now £107 and it's terrifying in a way and and. But what I know is kind of conscious of is even though you think you're ignoring it, it from a brain perspective, you won't be it'll be eat, eat, eat.
::You know, we're literally eating at you.
:: ::And it then.
::Creates other fear, doesn't it? And other problems.
::Yeah, my mum worked for the Citizens Advice Bureau. She volunteered there for years and that's one of my main memories as a child, as her coming home and telling us about people who had taken on, you know, taking out loans, credit cards and not understood what the, the APR, the sort of rate meant.
::So that's definitely impacted me as an adult, not wanting to have any debt, you know, not wanting to borrow, never going to my overdraft because so it's it's interesting the things you hear you know.
::I'm living proof.
::That that when you're growing up, but.
::Just because it it it's, you know, things like store credit cards. You know when you go.
::Into somewhere like.
::Next, you know so many people do it and they offer you a little, you know, you'll get a tiny bit off today. And actually that ends up being a lot in the future. So it costs them nothing to give you the, you know, 2P off that day.
::£20 off but it's and it's just I think those sorts of things need a lot more regulation because it it impacts the people who are neediest, basically.
::Yeah, it's almost dangerous, isn't it? Cause when you it all comes and it says you've got this much to spend.
::And and you haven't got that much to spend at all on the top of your invoice.
::Ohh, I know. It's. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's appalling. It really is. Yeah.
::Just isn't I.
::Think one of the things that we've talked about at the beginning, which is.
::All running parallel.
::With all of what we've talked about is.
::How money was presented to us or how hard work was presented to us when we were young, you know what? What? What was?
::Your.
::Kind of messages that you were hearing about.
:: ::Working hard and and I wonder whether you know again, we don't know the answer to this, but you know the as the generations change you know how how we will see hard work you know did for those people who had a paper around and got up at 6:00 in the morning and you know they they'll have an ethic.
::Or at work.
::Pattern around working super hard quite.
::Often, but I'm always my.
::Sometimes, yeah. Well, sometimes it doesn't serve people to have heard that growing up. You know, money doesn't grow on trees if you ask, you don't get you've got to work really hard because actually then you see people.
::You know, not ever taking a break and you know, giving them any self-care self compassion, it's sort of, you know, they keep going on the rollercoaster you know treadmill. So that's one end of.
::The spectrum, that's.
::Probably not helping people. It's interesting though, because you might still hear that and I deal with some people.
::Now, who are earning a lot more money than their family have ever earned? And they're wondering how can they actually talk to their children about money because.
::You know, one person had heard their daughter. Just say ohh my watch is broken. Can you get me a new one on Amazon and you know the thought of that is, you know, we'd have waited for Christmas. You know, that'd be one of the things you could ask for. And the arrival of things in the post from Amazon.
::Or.
::Wherever online is so prevalent.
::Now that actually, you know, our children don't really see money very often because it's all on cards and it's going to be, you know, totally different. So going back to the sort of hard work and seeing how you can now earn money, you know, think of the Youtubers people make money on TikTok, all these things where.
::But those people are sort of still in the minority. You know, there are still a lot of people doing their jobs with, you know, hourly rates and.
::People earning, so I think I think it's not going to be a complete shift, but I.
::Do think.
::You know, it's how you talk to your children will will probably impact them more than you think.
::Definitely and that would be the same to anything because children are modelling and picking up and I think you said you they will either fall into that type or some people may be complete opposite around how.
::They what they.
::Heard and they go off down on a different path and I think for me it's just checking that whatever it is.
::That you are.
::Your thoughts, your behaviours are, is that they are not, you know, almost disabling.
::Yourself in in your future and whether that is around money or just like you say, not pausing, not taking breaks, I see that a lot.
::I bet you do.
::So tell everyone where they can find you. They would like to look at you on socials and things.
::Well, thank you. So I'm @Philly financial on Instagram and my website is phillyfinancial.co.uk.
::Brilliant. And we will put those in the in the tag when we put it out on socials.
::So have you got a last little tip before we finish, Philly.
::I would always.
::Say, talk to people about money. It should not be taboo. If you can communicate, be open. Be honest. I think you'll be surprised at actually how reassured you're feel, how it will improve your relationships, friends, family, I think, yeah. Communicate, is a good one.
:: ::Good one. And I think the other thing about that, which again I'm always saying is when you talk, it just reminds you that you're not on your own.
::Because when we go when we're on our own with our thoughts, the way that we're wired, we end up getting all mixed up. We catastrophize we make it all 10 times harder than it actually is and actually just saying, gosh, I'm stuck with this or how. How can I help and just let you know. I'm sure your socials and things have got lots of tips, lots of things that you can pick up on. You know, there's lots of ways of.
::Getting little tips to realise that you're not on your own and that there is a way that you can make this better.
::Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me on.
::Ohh, you're welcome. Thank you so much.
::Thank you for listening and sharing in this episode of Mental Wealth. Remember, you can subscribe wherever you get your podcast. My last question to you is what is the one small thing that you can take action on from this episode? Message me.
::On Instagram or through our website.
::With questions you'd like me to explore.
::You'll find the links in the show notes.
::I'll be back with more tools and tips to make sense of your mind in the next episode. In the meantime, be kind to yourself. Bye for now.
