Listen to the song

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz-5NDMYcrE
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/track/7aVCFiwe5TipJ6tToCvIWl?si=7bef5111b9724a73
• Apple Music - https://music.apple.com/us/song/montuno-sampling/1290453682
• Amazon - https://music.amazon.com/albums/B075ZQDWXY?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_rJMToaKnfUs5sq7C4vPAqkLeA&trackAsin=B075ZPWNYY

Other links

• Playlist of the songs we’ve reviewed
• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5bn23baJ4xQ1t0TMqukELY5W95HwuMoT
• Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7gCOF5M0zYS1fBvXgT5ccI?si=7F3yVdEDRRWa_gAArK3AYg

Key takeaways

• Trist and Elaine discuss “Montuno Sampling,” a 1995 track from Cuban a cappella group Vocal Sampling. This group mimics Latin percussion instruments using only their voices, creating an authentic and rhythmic sound that mirrors traditional Cuban music styles like "son" and salsa
• Elaine and Trist dig into the vocal blend and rhythmic patterns, which reflect Vocal Sampling’s deep connection to Cuban musical heritage, showcasing the tonal and rhythmic nuances of Latin music that are distinct from North American traditions
• In the Mailbag segment, Trist and Elaine dig into the rise of AI in the music industry, emphasizing the importance of human creativity and emotional connection in music-making, which cannot be replicated by algorithms
• Note: this episode also has a special bonus episode, which has the full Mailbag segment for those who are interested in the deeper conversation about our relationship to technology and how technology changes how we value analog experiences

About us

Trist Curless is a Los Angeles-based vocalist, educator, and sound engineer. As a performer, Trist has toured worldwide as a co-founder of the pop-jazz vocal group m-pact and a 10 year member of the Grammy-award winning The Manhattan Transfer. In addition to these two vocal powerhouse groups, he’s also performed with Take 6, Bobby McFerrin, New York Voices, Vox Audio, Naturally 7, and The Swingle Singers. His latest venture, The LHR Project, is a new vocal group collective celebrating legendary jazz vocal group Lambert, Hendricks, and Ross.

As an audio engineer, Trist has toured nationally with several vocal groups and bands in a large variety of venues, working for Grammy award winners Pentatonix and Take 6, as well as prominent a cappella vocal groups Straight No Chaser, VoicePlay, and Accent.

Elaine Chao, M.Ed is a San Francisco Bay Area-based vocalist, multi-instrumentalist, vocal percussionist, and songwriter whose career spans a cappella, contemporary worship, and classical music. She has leveraged her training in classical and choral music over the course of her contemporary performance, including in orchestras for musical theatre and in sacred spaces. In addition to music, she also is a martial artist and published author. She currently leads a product management team at a major software company dedicated to creative expression. All statements in this podcast are her own and do not reflect the opinions of her employer.

Elaine: Hey, Trist!

Elaine: What do we have this week?

Trist: Oh, we've got a good one this week.

Trist: We've got a Latin percussion ensemble from Cuba.

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: Um, and the thing about this

Trist: percussion ensemble is that they

Trist: don't use any percussion

Trist: instruments.

Elaine: Okay. Tell me a little bit more

Trist: Well,

Elaine: about this.

Trist: it's a little bit of a trick

Trist: there in that it's an a cappella

Trist: group.

Trist: So no

Elaine: Oh.

Trist: instruments.

Trist: These gentlemen from Cuba all went to music school and they

Trist: studied music, and many of them know how to play different

Trist: instruments and percussion of the music of Cuba.

Trist: And they decided as a little

Trist: game to form a group and sing

Trist: lots of songs that are in the

Trist: styles of the music they grew up

Trist: with and they call themselves

Trist: Vocal Sampling.

Elaine: Oh, yeah.

Elaine: They're classic.

Elaine: I heard one of their songs as a part of a sampler that I got.

Elaine: there was a CD that I had received some time in.

Elaine: I don't know, the late nineties

Elaine: or so that had a track from them

Elaine: on it.

Elaine: So, familiar with the group.

Elaine: What are we listening to?

Trist: This one is called Montuno Sampling.

Trist: It's a bit of a calling card for the group.

Elaine: Okay. Well, before we pause, can

Elaine: you remind all of us how we

Elaine: should be listening to music as

Elaine: a member of The Musician's Loupe

Elaine: community?

Trist: Well, as always, we love having you listen to us whenever and

Trist: wherever you choose to.

Trist: So thank you so much for, hanging out with us.

Trist: If you are able to take a moment

Trist: and improve your listening

Trist: situation in any way, do that

Trist: now.

Trist: Just take a moment and move to the better speakers or the

Trist: better room or a little bit of quiet or the better headphones,

Trist: whatever way you can improve your listening situation.

Trist: That's just something we really love to try to do here.

Trist: So do that if you can.

Trist: If not, no worries.

Trist: Keep on your run or your walk or your drive and, just stay with

Trist: us and check out the song.

Elaine: Okay, so with that we're going to take a pause.

Elaine: We'll leave links to the song in our show notes.

Elaine: So pause the stream, listen to

Elaine: the song once, twice, three

Elaine: times, more.

Elaine: And we will be right back.

Elaine: And we are back.

Elaine: Holy cows.

Elaine: That was amazing.

Trist: Pretty cool, right?

Elaine: Yeah. I'd love to understand why you chose this song.

Trist: It's no secret the roots and the experiences in the a cappella

Trist: idiom that we bring to this one.

Trist: So I think we've purposely tried

Trist: not to be just a bunch of a

Trist: cappella songs that we deal

Trist: with.

Trist: And when we do, it's solo, like Bobby McFerrin or with some

Trist: other legend, like Take 6 with Johnny Mathis, those are really

Trist: our a cappella offerings so far.

Trist: And we could do an entire podcast and it would be only

Trist: those things, but I don't want to do that.

Trist: I just thought this was really different enough.

Trist: Wanted people to hear this.

Trist: It's just so well recorded.

Trist: They're so good at what they do.

Trist: Even though I've heard this for a long time, I've seen them live

Trist: and in person in concert.

Trist: And it's still

Elaine: Oh.

Trist: kind of amazing, their ability to have the constant rhythm

Trist: track – I use in air quotes – happening while they're singing

Trist: all these parts.

Trist: Obviously on this recording, as

Trist: we've mentioned before, you can

Trist: do anything.

Trist: They could record all of those

Trist: individual little percussion

Trist: parts and then sing all the

Trist: parts separately.

Trist: And they probably did that because it's really clean and

Trist: easy to mix, but live and in concert, I'm telling you, it

Trist: sounds like that.

Trist: It sounds

Elaine: Oh,

Trist: just

Elaine: wow.

Trist: like that.

Trist: You're like, wait, where are the other people?

Trist: Are they using a track?

Trist: What's going on?

Trist: Like we've talked about before, right away you're identifying,

Trist: okay, wait, what is this about?

Trist: Who's doing what?

Trist: There's six of them.

Trist: Who is singing?

Trist: Okay, that's the lead.

Trist: Oh, that's the bass.

Trist: Wait, there's all these- So it's orchestrated much like a

Trist: percussion ensemble where every individual little rhythm is its

Trist: own thing and fairly simple and basic for one person to do.

Trist: But when constructed together, it has this big rhythmic feel.

Trist: So the writer arranger is writing a big rhythmic feel,

Trist: more complex rhythmic pattern, but then separating it out into

Trist: each wood block, clave, shaker, tambourine, whatever is needed.

Trist: So, the last little tidbit I'll

Trist: tell you about seeing them live

Trist: was amazing.

Trist: The clave, which of course is a

Trist: physical, two pieces of wood

Trist: that clank together to make a

Trist: sound.

Trist: Those are called clave, those pieces of wood.

Trist: But the rhythm itself is called

Trist: clave, either demonstrated with

Trist: two versus three or three versus

Trist: two.

Trist: So either bop bop bop bop bop or bop bop bop bap bap.

Trist: That's

Elaine: Mhm.

Trist: the basic rhythm of a lot of Latin music.

Trist: That's kind of the backbeat, if you will.

Trist: So

Elaine: Right.

Trist: it's like, is this a two three or a three two?

Trist: And of course, there are a bunch of variations.

Trist: And I just sounded like I knew a lot about that.

Trist: And that's about the extent of it that I

Elaine: Ha!

Trist: really, really, truly

Elaine: Okay.

Trist: know.

Trist: Anyway, because that's so apparent, I kind of thought, oh,

Trist: well, they'll probably have someone playing clave.

Trist: And what they did is one of the guys, I think he was a lot of

Trist: times the lead singer, he would do it with his hands.

Trist: So he would kind of cup one hand and hit it with the other.

Trist: Like he made a little circle almost with his hand

Elaine: Oh, yeah.

Elaine: Yeah.

Trist: like

Elaine: Yeah. Like.

Trist: a fist.

Elaine: Mhm.

Trist: And then the open part of the

Trist: fist, kind of where his index

Trist: finger and his thumb are, he

Trist: would slap it with his hand and

Trist: it made a little pop kind of

Trist: sound, and it sounded kind of

Trist: like that.

Elaine: Mhm.

Trist: And I've seen them twice in concert.

Trist: The first time they had a little microphone on his mic stand that

Trist: was right by there.

Elaine: Oh!

Trist: So they could mic it the little bop bop bop bop bop.

Trist: The whole time, he's singing

Trist: like a lead vocal, or he's doing

Trist: another percussion

Elaine: Yeah.

Trist: part with his mouth, but he's

Trist: keeping that rhythm the whole

Trist: time.

Trist: And then the second time I saw him, they had advanced a few

Trist: years and he had a lavalier mic, so he was wireless.

Trist: So had a little pack on his back by his in-ear monitors.

Trist: And then the microphone cable ran all the way up his back,

Trist: down his shoulder, down his arm, and was taped on his wrist.

Elaine: Oh!

Trist: So when he

Elaine: Interesting.

Trist: did that, so that way the sound

Trist: engineer could make that sound

Trist: exactly as loud as it needed to

Trist: be

Elaine: Oh.

Trist: in in the mix.

Trist: But the basic thing was they would sing their parts and then

Trist: even in between singing, some kind of bop bop bop bop bop,

Trist: there'd be a bop bop bop bop bop bop bop bop bop.

Trist: I'm making something up, But

Trist: there'd be like a bop, bop, bop

Trist: to whatever.

Trist: There'd be a rhythm, boom boom.

Trist: Whatever.

Trist: Those are none of the sounds on this album.

Trist: It'd be something like that.

Trist: Sometimes they'll integrate it into their vocal part where it's

Trist: a very simple little thing, but all of them doing it has this

Trist: cacophony of rhythm

Elaine: Yeah, yeah.

Trist: and sound, so it really did sound.

Trist: Not to be cliche, it sounded

Trist: "just like the album" in

Trist: concert.

Trist: It really did.

Trist: Just amazing.

Elaine: Yeah. One of the things that I found really interesting about

Elaine: this track, and especially in a lot of Latin music, the rhythmic

Elaine: instruments that they use are tonal, but they are not tuned to

Elaine: the actual piece.

Elaine: And so that off tuning and the consistent off tuning is what I

Elaine: find interesting about what they're doing here, especially

Elaine: the clave that you were talking about, because I heard that

Elaine: clave and it was off tune the same way that I would normally

Elaine: expect, like an instrumental off tune to be as well.

Elaine: So it

Trist: Right.

Elaine: was amazing to me because I think as vocalists, a lot of

Elaine: time we tend to snap to what is in tune and that we expect that

Elaine: it is in tune.

Elaine: And so hearing it out of tune and hearing it out of tune in a

Elaine: way that is authentic to the original style of music was, for

Elaine: me, that extra bit of delight.

Trist: Yeah, I think that's probably the key is that because all of

Trist: them have played in bands that play this music, so they know

Trist: exactly what it sounds like.

Trist: So they know that as the key of

Trist: the song moves around, their

Trist: shakers and clave don't change

Trist: keys.

Trist: They have a certain sound.

Trist: And so I think they naturally do that instead of naturally tuned

Trist: because it's in their musical heritage to have that sound.

Trist: So it wouldn't even occur to

Trist: them to try to make it be in

Trist: tune.

Trist: It would sound weirder to them.

Trist: So it would be very natural for

Trist: them to have it be this

Trist: consistent pitch that often

Trist: falls, maybe sometimes happens

Trist: to fall in, but often falls

Trist: outside of the key center that's

Trist: happening otherwise.

Elaine: So to follow up on that, I think that there are areas where I

Elaine: heard tuning that was very specific to Latin music and

Elaine: especially in the male voices.

Elaine: So there were certain areas,

Elaine: especially in the parts where it

Elaine: was actually supposed to sound

Elaine: like voices.

Elaine: So the background voices, the

Elaine: tuning of these specific voices

Elaine: for me, not just because they

Elaine: were singing in Spanish, but

Elaine: they really sounded like a lot

Elaine: of the different Central

Elaine: American, Caribbean, South

Elaine: American vocals that you will

Elaine: hear and the blend that they

Elaine: have, which I think is different

Elaine: than the blend that we hear out

Elaine: of traditional choral music, or

Elaine: even some of the gospel music

Elaine: that we've been listening to as

Elaine: well.

Elaine: Each of those has a certain blend of voices that we kind of

Elaine: expect, and the blend of these male voices really brought to

Elaine: mind the kind of harmonies that I expect to hear out of this

Elaine: region as well.

Elaine: Is that something that you heard?

Trist: Yeah, absolutely.

Trist: I've often said, really for

Trist: them, as much as it's just

Trist: outside of our particular

Trist: American heritage music

Trist: tradition ears.

Trist: This is much to them as an American group of six guys

Trist: making a doo wop album.

Trist: We don't have to think about how those chords happen.

Trist: Who's voicing what.

Trist: It's matter of fact for us.

Trist: To me, this album as much as, of course it's air quotes foreign

Trist: to my ear necessarily, I'm assuming to them, growing up in

Trist: this culture, studying this music in university there, this

Trist: isn't anything fancy at all.

Trist: This is just a very matter of fact.

Trist: That's why it sounds so

Trist: authentic, because it is

Trist: authentic.

Trist: They know these kinds of songs.

Trist: Even when they're writing original songs, they're in the

Trist: vein and the style and the feel and the tonalities of the music

Trist: they grew up with.

Trist: It's from their region.

Elaine: So the point I was trying to make about this was much more

Elaine: along the lines of the different type of blend that we expect out

Elaine: of different types of groups.

Elaine: So even within American music

Elaine: tradition, you have your

Elaine: barbershop, for instance, you

Elaine: have country, you have doo wop,

Elaine: you have all of these different

Elaine: vocal traditions that we have

Elaine: here inside of the United

Elaine: States, and each one sounds

Elaine: slightly different.

Elaine: I think part of it is the type of vowels that you use.

Elaine: And so depending on what region you're from, you learn how to

Elaine: speak in a very particular way.

Elaine: And I think in this particular

Elaine: way as well, there is a certain

Elaine: type of blend that comes from

Elaine: the way that people speak and

Elaine: the way that people learn how to

Elaine: sing.

Elaine: To your point, I think that it is very cultural as well.

Elaine: And this is just a point that I'm trying to make because I

Elaine: hear something very familiar.

Elaine: Also being steeped in a lot of

Elaine: different types of, you know,

Elaine: Central American, South American

Elaine: music, where growing up in the

Elaine: San Francisco Bay area, you're

Elaine: just kind of surrounded by this

Elaine: music, right?

Trist: Right.

Elaine: So I think for me, it sounds

Elaine: very familiar, but what I was

Elaine: trying to comment on is the tone

Elaine: of the voices and the blend that

Elaine: is very specific to the style of

Elaine: music is different than the

Elaine: styles of music that we might be

Elaine: more familiar with in a North

Elaine: American context, singing in

Elaine: English.

Trist: Very true.

Elaine: So let's change topics a little bit.

Elaine: One of the things that I really wanted to think about were the

Elaine: lyrics, which were in Spanish.

Elaine: It

Trist: Right.

Elaine: is a super cute song.

Elaine: And the reason I say that is that it seems to me like it's an

Elaine: introductory song where it goes through every single person

Elaine: inside of the group and talks about what things that they do,

Elaine: the kinds of things that I have heard in some pieces of groups

Elaine: that I know here singing in English, where basically they

Elaine: reference each one of the band members and the things that they

Elaine: do and give them an opportunity to shine as well.

Elaine: Can you talk a little bit about the role of that type of piece

Elaine: inside of a repertoire?

Trist: Well, I will let you know just how much you nailed the

Trist: translation of it, because not only did they add a translation,

Trist: but at the beginning of every song here in the liner notes, it

Trist: just tells you a little story.

Trist: If there's an anecdote about it

Trist: or there's a little bit written

Trist: about it.

Trist: And in this one, it says this "son" and s o n is how that's

Trist: spelled "son," which is the which is the feel, that's what

Trist: the music is.

Trist: It's not a salsa or merengue.

Trist: It's a "son."

Trist: This "son" serves as our calling card.

Trist: It introduces the members of the group and shows which

Trist: instruments we play.

Trist: There's an old fashioned Cuban proverb which says that when

Trist: something is good, the wind cannot carry it away.

Trist: How about that?

Trist: So, yeah, you were spot on.

Trist: That's exactly the thing.

Trist: Serves as their calling card.

Trist: So yeah, as an opening song on the opening album that they put

Trist: out and just as a fun way to introduce the band in the show,

Trist: sometimes a group will just have, oh, here's the band intro

Trist: and sometimes literally it gives everyone a break from music and

Trist: everyone either introduces themselves or every band member

Trist: introduces a different band member, or the lead singer

Trist: introduces everyone in the band, and sometimes they'll get a

Trist: little more cutesy with it and have a little introductory song,

Trist: whether they have a little groove they like to play or they

Trist: have their favorite little cover, and they use it as a bed

Trist: to be the song that they play while they introduce each other.

Trist: And sometimes they work out a whole thing into the song.

Trist: Of course, very much playing to

Trist: the a cappella presentation

Trist: here, they do exactly that, kind

Trist: of talking about here are all

Trist: the members of the group, and it

Trist: goes through each one and the

Trist: instruments that they air

Trist: quotes, play.

Trist: So yeah, you're right on.

Trist: It's a cool original song, but

Trist: introduces everyone to the

Trist: group.

Elaine: In talking about their history, it references, hey, you know, we

Elaine: started in 1989.

Elaine: This particular song was recorded and released in 1995.

Elaine: So at this point in time, they'd obviously been together for

Elaine: quite some time.

Trist: Different anecdotes I remember them saying and then is a lot of

Trist: their press materials, lots of bios that you hear about them is

Trist: when they were at university, and almost like a party trick,

Trist: like if they were all out at the same party, they could imitate

Trist: with their voices some of the music they'd played.

Trist: I'm totally, of course speculating, but I'd imagine,

Trist: you know, oh, you guys are all in that band in school.

Trist: It's too bad here at the party, we can't have the full band all

Trist: set up, you know?

Trist: Oh, no, it goes like this or whatever.

Trist: Eventually, it was like a little party trick that they had, but

Trist: then they were being told and realizing themselves that it was

Trist: actually a pretty cool thing.

Trist: And, people weren't really believing that it was just them

Trist: when they would hear it, they were kind of amazed by the

Trist: sounds they could come up with and how full it could all be.

Trist: So yeah.

Elaine: Yeah. I was wondering what does montuno stand for?

Elaine: Because it wasn't a familiar term for me.

Elaine: And I looked it up.

Elaine: Montuno means of the mountains.

Elaine: But it's also the foundational rhythm of salsa or probably of

Elaine: "son" in this case, because "son" is a predecessor or an

Elaine: ancestor of salsa.

Elaine: So I just thought it was interesting that they refer to

Elaine: themselves as Sampling repeatedly inside of the song.

Elaine: So this is Montuno Sampling.

Elaine: So I thought that was super cute.

Trist: And often time the piano player and or the bass player, if you

Trist: tell them it's like, oh, no, it's a montuno.

Trist: There's certain rhythms that the left hand will play or both

Trist: hands will play, but definitely the left and or the bass.

Trist: If there is a bass player, they understand what that means.

Trist: Generally, it's not playing the downbeats.

Trist: It's usually playing just off of the downbeats.

Elaine: Yeah, it is really interesting also for me to think about.

Elaine: So as we wrap up this section, I

Elaine: really want to think about the

Elaine: relationship that we have to

Elaine: Cuban music in general and just

Elaine: the influence that it's had in

Elaine: American music.

Elaine: And a big part of that, I think, also has to do with the history

Elaine: of Cuba and the historical relationship between the United

Elaine: States and Cuba.

Elaine: Going back to, you know,

Elaine: prohibition times, you're

Elaine: talking the 1920s, I was reading

Elaine: that Havana was a pretty big

Elaine: destination.

Elaine: The relationship between Cuba and the United States was so

Elaine: big, like tourism was such a big thing at that point in time.

Elaine: And then in our lifetimes,

Elaine: thinking about the strained

Elaine: relationship that these two

Elaine: countries have, the closing of

Elaine: the borders, the way that a lot

Elaine: of people fled from Cuba and

Elaine: settled inside of the United

Elaine: States.

Elaine: And what that diaspora had to

Elaine: contribute, thinking about the

Elaine: relationship with jazz and

Elaine: thinking about how deeply Cuban

Elaine: music was integrated with jazz

Elaine: music.

Elaine: So I was reading how Dizzy Gillespie integrated Cuban

Elaine: musicians inside of his act and the influence that they had in

Elaine: his work as well.

Elaine: Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Trist: Oh well yeah.

Trist: The contributions by Dizzy going in there and there are many

Trist: Cuban artists who have had a big role and big influence in jazz.

Trist: The story I did want to tell you that related to being closed off

Trist: from the States was that first time that I did hear them.

Trist: One of the a cappella summits

Trist: that would happen in San

Trist: Francisco, kind of opposite time

Trist: of the year from when the

Trist: Harmony Sweepstakes competition

Trist: would be.

Trist: You know, big concert

Trist: celebration of a cappella

Trist: groups.

Trist: And it'd be kind of a little bit of everyone who's who.

Trist: This particular show is probably

Trist: 97ish and featured Rockapella

Trist: kind of at the height of their

Trist: powers.

Trist: A newly signed to a record label House Jacks hosted the show.

Trist: And The Swingle Singers were on that show.

Trist: And this group from Cuba, Vocal Sampling.

Trist: So what I found really

Trist: interesting is very much at

Trist: these kinds of shows, during the

Trist: day, there are some, meet the

Trist: artist sessions and some things

Trist: like that.

Trist: And usually the main guest artists, unless they're the ones

Trist: that are answering questions or giving some kind of talk or

Trist: topic, usually not to be found.

Trist: They're chilling out, waiting for their night to perform and

Trist: waiting for their sound check, etc.. But what I loved was the

Trist: unknown quantity of Vocal Sampling that most of us that

Trist: are into it had heard this album and it was amazing.

Trist: But again, as we've mentioned,

Trist: you can kind of do anything on

Trist: an album.

Trist: What does this sound like live?

Trist: And nobody had heard them in person.

Trist: It's not like, oh yeah, they get to my part of the country a lot.

Trist: They just hadn't come to the country at all.

Trist: Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that up to like, even the week

Trist: before, the organizers weren't even sure they were going to be

Trist: allowed to appear.

Trist: This is how long ago it was: a cappella fans flooded the State

Trist: Department with faxes just to make sure that they made their

Trist: appearance and to say how important and how innocuous this

Trist: appearance would be.

Elaine: Wow.

Trist: And sure enough, they were there.

Trist: And so, noon or whatever there was just to Meet the Artist in

Trist: this room and it was packed.

Trist: And along the walls, I'm seeing all the members of all the quote

Trist: unquote, important groups that were performing that night.

Trist: Everyone was there like, no, no,

Trist: no, we're not going to miss

Trist: this.

Trist: Like this doesn't come to our country at all, let alone right

Trist: here at the same festival as us.

Trist: We need to check this out.

Trist: And I remember from the first 30s just the whole place

Trist: absolutely in awe.

Trist: Just everyone like, whoa, like I said, this sounds like that

Trist: record they made.

Trist: Holy

Elaine: Ya.

Trist: cow.

Trist: How are they doing-?

Trist: And so I'll never forget that.

Trist: And of course, the concert that night was amazing.

Trist: But even in that more specific, where it's not a lot of time to

Trist: soundcheck, not a lots of bells and whistles, just turn on some

Trist: mics, sing a couple of things, they had a translator that kind

Trist: of spoke for them.

Trist: And when they were telling their story about how they started.

Trist: And that's one of those that

Trist: I'll never forget, just the vibe

Trist: of the whole room, knowing we're

Trist: at a special event that may

Trist: never happen again in the

Trist: States.

Trist: I don't know how much more they ever played.

Trist: And the show that night,

Trist: actually, the thing that I

Trist: remember is with all that vocal

Trist: percussion stuff, all the Latin

Trist: percussion stuff, their second

Trist: to last tune, right in that

Trist: ballad spot.

Trist: They did indeed do this beautiful ballad with no kind of

Trist: rhythmic stuff in it at all.

Trist: And it was just like, oh, they

Trist: don't need the trickery of all

Trist: that stuff.

Trist: They can do it.

Trist: They could just do a whole show

Trist: of jazz ballads if they wanted

Trist: to.

Trist: It was amazing.

Trist: It was great.

Elaine: What a special memory.

Elaine: Thanks for

Trist: Yeah,

Elaine: sharing that

Trist: yeah.

Elaine: I totally.

Trist: It was.

Elaine: This was way before my time and so it's great to hear just how

Elaine: special it was and that you had an opportunity to see them.

Elaine: So anything else that you want to share before we move on?

Trist: No, but if you like it at all,

Trist: check out anything else from

Trist: them.

Trist: All the rest of that album and

Trist: their subsequent albums are also

Trist: stellar.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: And so with that, we're going to move on to.

Trist: Mailbag.

Elaine: That's right. The Mailbag.

Elaine: And you can get ahold of us via email at themusiciansloupe, that

Elaine: is l o u p e at gmail.com, or you can contact us via Instagram

Elaine: or Threads @themusiciansloupe.

Trist: And that's a great opportunity for you to tell us, maybe if you

Trist: happened to see Vocal Sampling at some point in your life or a

Trist: group that is like them or your first a cappella group like that

Trist: where you were just watching them and most of the show, you

Trist: were just freaking out because you couldn't believe they were

Trist: doing all of that.

Trist: Or any other questions you might have related to this or how you

Trist: find their music or just any other comments you might have,

Trist: please send them there.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: So this week's mailbag is from Threads.

Elaine: It's from an account called

Elaine: @msinstrumental, M-S

Elaine: instrumental from December of

Elaine: 2025.

Elaine: And it says: "Hi musicians, please don't let the rise of AI

Elaine: usage in music discourage you from singing, rapping,

Elaine: songwriting, producing, practicing, performing,

Elaine: creating, experimenting, or just trying in general.

Elaine: FYI, this isn't an anti AI post.

Elaine: I'm pro-technology and pro-innovation.

Elaine: Just saying if you genuinely

Elaine: enjoy making music, please keep

Elaine: making it.

Elaine: Immerse yourself in discovery

Elaine: and into the process of

Elaine: creation.

Elaine: There are still so many people who'd enjoy hearing or

Elaine: experiencing your art.

Elaine: And there's

Trist: Hm.

Elaine: a couple of emoji afterwards.

Elaine: We haven't talked as much about the rise of AI, even though

Elaine: everyone is talking about it right now and the impact of AI

Elaine: in the music industry.

Elaine: I'd love to hear a little bit of

Elaine: your thoughts, especially when

Elaine: it comes in response to this

Elaine: particular person's

Elaine: encouragement to continue to

Elaine: make music, even in more analog

Elaine: ways, or perhaps especially in

Elaine: analog ways.

Trist: I'm in agreement with that particular Thread.

Trist: And I think it's a bit different and a little too simplistic, but

Trist: I'll use it anyway.

Trist: Things that I've often heard in these conversations, at some

Trist: point the drum machine was going to ruin music.

Trist: At some point, multitrack

Trist: recording was going to ruin

Trist: music.

Trist: At some point, just the Beatles'

Trist: existence was going to ruin

Trist: music.

Trist: So we go through history and there's always the "this is

Trist: going to ruin music."

Trist: I'm definitely a glass half full guy, but the optimist in me

Trist: believes in the humans maybe less and less every day, but I

Trist: still do believe in them.

Trist: And that the originality that comes from us, the algorithms

Trist: and the AI stuff pulls from stuff that exists already,

Trist: doesn't usually create, although I'm sure that's coming.

Trist: It doesn't create necessarily in

Trist: a way that humans would and do

Trist: odd things that maybe even other

Trist: humans wouldn't do, let alone a

Trist: program.

Trist: So I guess that's part of my hope.

Trist: and again, much like, "Oh no, the drum machine is going to

Trist: be-" Well, they didn't put drummers out of business.

Trist: They became an important part of a lot of different music.

Trist: But, you just had to shift and

Trist: there's been some great things

Trist: that have happened because of

Trist: them.

Trist: So I guess that's just my only

Trist: hope is that really creative

Trist: people can use like they've

Trist: always used.

Trist: Same with synthesizers.

Trist: Oh my goodness, "synthesizers are going to ruin music."

Trist: So yeah, I guess I'm in agreement.

Trist: I get that way too.

Trist: Even just.

Trist: "Why write a song when this other thing exists that's

Trist: writing all these great songs, you don't need any more from me,

Trist: or why do your own whatever when this other stuff is so great?"

Trist: And so it's easy to get bogged down in that.

Trist: And now it's "Well, why try to work my tail off to create this

Trist: thing when some people can just feed a couple things into some

Trist: AI and it'll spit out something better than I could ever do?"

Trist: That's just not true.

Trist: It doesn't have your heart.

Trist: It doesn't have your innovation,

Trist: your thoughts, your feelings,

Trist: that somebody needs or wants to

Trist: hear.

Trist: So I think that hopefully should forever be a thing that is

Trist: needed, humans communicating with others through art.

Elaine: Yeah, I love that you put it that way because I think I

Elaine: resonate with that in the way that I think about a

Elaine: relationship with technology.

Elaine: And there are two different examples that I have in mind.

Elaine: One of them is social media and I see a pendulum swing that is

Elaine: happening in culture.

Elaine: Twenty years ago, social media was brand brand new.

Elaine: It had a lot of opportunities for us to connect with people.

Elaine: But more and more today, I see a

Elaine: generation of people just

Elaine: stepping away from social media

Elaine: and prioritizing in-person

Elaine: relationship and in-person

Elaine: conversation, really biasing

Elaine: towards stepping away from this

Elaine: digital connectedness into an

Elaine: in-person connectedness.

Elaine: And I see that we value that more because the digital

Elaine: connectedness is so cheap.

Elaine: And here's another example.

Elaine: Some people may know this, but I'm a fiber crafter.

Elaine: And so that means that I knit and crochet.

Elaine: So in a world of mass manufacturing where someone can

Elaine: get a sweater just off the rack for twenty bucks.

Elaine: Now I can go out and buy something and I can give it to a

Elaine: friend, but if I knit something for them and give it to them, it

Elaine: inherently has more value.

Elaine: It has more value because I have created this thing.

Elaine: I've put in the time.

Elaine: I've brought my own craftsmanship.

Elaine: And so I think that there is an

Elaine: opportunity for us to think

Elaine: about in a world where digital

Elaine: tools are making it so much

Elaine: easier and more accessible, how

Elaine: much more are we going to value

Elaine: the actual skills that go into

Elaine: it?

Elaine: And so I really go back to the

Elaine: whole mass manufacturing thing

Elaine: of clothing.

Elaine: And I just think about how much joy I bring whenever I make a

Elaine: baby item for a friend.

Elaine: And they are absolutely blown

Elaine: away when they receive something

Elaine: that is handcrafted, whether

Elaine: it's a quilt or it's a sweater

Elaine: or it's a blanket or something

Elaine: like that.

Elaine: It is something that is

Elaine: incredibly meaningful for them,

Elaine: and I think reinforces our

Elaine: relationship in a way that

Elaine: buying something off the rack

Elaine: would not, no matter how much I

Elaine: spent.

Trist: Absolutely.

Elaine: One other thing that I'm

Elaine: thinking about right now is the

Elaine: relationship that we have to

Elaine: live music as opposed to

Elaine: recorded music.

Elaine: We both have experiences listening to music with other

Elaine: people as a social thing.

Elaine: And live music also fits into that social experience.

Trist: Well, caveat being I live in Los Angeles, so it's very easy for

Trist: me to say, oh, go experience live music as much as possible.

Trist: There's more here than I could ever even get to.

Trist: I've noticed I've really tried to focus on doing that.

Trist: I try to go to one or two performances from the LA Phil.

Trist: The Walt Disney concert hall is just an acoustic marvel.

Trist: So hearing these great works of music in this beautiful space

Trist: and just hearing it amazingly well and getting to experience

Trist: it live and see those 60 to 100 humans doing this together and

Trist: creating this one sound is just really, really moving.

Elaine: So any last thoughts before we move on?

Trist: That's it.

Elaine: Okay. And so with that, we have

Elaine: a big, big request of all of

Elaine: you.

Elaine: If you enjoyed this episode or any of the other ones that we

Elaine: have released, Please, please, please share it with a friend.

Elaine: We are always looking for more listeners.

Elaine: We're looking to grow our

Elaine: listener base, and we know that

Elaine: you as music lovers, will know

Elaine: the right people to share it

Elaine: with.

Trist: And even check out.

Trist: We're going to be making playlists on all the platforms

Trist: that we have provided links on.

Trist: And so you can share even the whole playlist.

Trist: Hey, here's this podcast I listen to.

Trist: Here's a list of the songs.

Trist: If you see one that you want to check out, then you can come

Trist: back to the podcast and see what we have to say about it.

Trist: Let us know!

Trist: Thanks for listening, everyone.

Elaine: Awesome.

Elaine: See you all next week.

Trist: And, as every a cappella group

Trist: mentions at some point, it's

Trist: nice to not have to schlep

Trist: everything around.

Trist: And then when you do it really professionally, you end up

Trist: schlepping a bunch of stuff around, just to pay you back for

Trist: having said that.

Elaine: I also figured out that I

Elaine: actually use that phrase a lot

Elaine: too.

Trist: Celebration. Come on.

Trist: Do do do

Elaine: All

Trist: do

Elaine: right.

Trist: do like

Elaine: Yeah,

Trist: whatever.

Elaine: yeah.