The band is back together — and Jo has news. She's joined Coolabi as SVP of Digital, with a brief that includes Warrior Cats: a book IP 74 volumes deep, a Roblox game at 730 million visits, a Tencent animation in production, and one of the most voracious fandoms in kids media. It's a good segue into the episode's main subject.

Amazing Digital Circus was supposed to have a four-day cinema run. It's now been extended to eight weeks, has outgrossed every independent animated movie in its window, and is cosplay screenings are selling out. The trio use it to pick up the thread from last week's creator movie conversation — but this time with a focus on what it means structurally. Creators who own their IP are coming into rooms with broadcasters and studios from a position of security rather than permission, and the entertainment industry is only beginning to reckon with what that shift means for how rights deals get structured.

The conversation also takes a sharp turn into social media regulation and what an under-16 ban would actually mean for the kind of co-created fandom that put Amazing Digital Circus in cinemas in the first place — Kane Parsons, after all, taught himself Blender on Discord at 14. It's the episode's most unresolved and most important thread, and one the podcast will clearly be returning to.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Kids Media Club podcast.

We're all back, all three of us together.

After a short break, the band is.

Back together for sure.

But someone has a new job.

Joe.

Yes.

You can see my background is different.

Not at home.

I'm in the office in central London today.

First week in the office, meeting everybody.

Lots of one to ones and listening and processes.

You know, the, you know, the thing.

Yeah.

So it's cooler by.

Cooler by.

Yes.

SVP of digital.

Amazing.

But yeah, really exciting.

It was an opportunity that was too good to pass up.

Not least because, I mean, Kulabaya's got a whole portfolio of IP that I kind of want to get my hands on.

It's a nice sandbox to play in.

But of course, Warrior Cats, which is a huge IP, started off as a book property.

74 Books in I think 74.

Been around a couple of decades and has this voracious hungry fandom.

Very successful developer originated game which Coolerbuy then partnered with the developers of the game on Roblox, which is at 730 million visits.

Animation being made with Tencent.

So it feels like an exciting time to be hopping onto that particular train.

So.

Yeah, but nothing's going to change.

Thankfully they were, they were very amenable to me continuing with our podcast.

People seem to like our podcast.

Who'd have thunk it?

Oh yeah, that's awesome.

Well, listen, I think it's such a great role for you.

Like Warrior Cats, like what?

I think I've heard it described as Game of Thrones meets cats.

Yes.

Succession with cats.

Yes.

There's been various ways of describing it,.

But the fandom is so hungry and like, obviously the demand on digital is so evident.

You're able to track it.

Like, oh, you're gonna.

I'm so excited for you.

I'm so, I'm actually, I'm so excited for you.

But I'm more excited for them because they've landed you to take this forward, which is a really, really, really great opportunity.

Oh, no, thank you.

It is.

I mean my, my feed is almost exclusively now Warrior Cats content from unboxing the little collectible figurines and plushies that have just been released by Bonkers Toys to fat.

I mean there are even multi animator projects, fan animation.

Yeah.

Wow.

That are pulling in millions of views.

I mean, this is, it's, it's good stuff.

I mean, people would give their right arm to be working with a fandom like that.

So yes, I feel very lucky.

Very exciting.

That's great news.

Though.

Yes.

Anyway, talking of fandoms, what a segue.

Hey.

Very.

A very professional link there.

I know.

Yes.

Amazing Digital Circus.

We couldn't really have the next episode given that we spoke about backrooms and obsession last time.

Andy.

Without coming out of the weekend that the Amazing Digital Circus has had in cinemas, which I literally just saw a reel this morning on Instagram.

It was supposed to be a four day run in cinema.

Now extended it to June, eight weeks.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

And it would have made more money than any independent animated movie within that space.

Yeah.

So I mean what a fantastic validation of creator made movies and that kind of fan base strategy.

Yeah.

The creator to cinema strategy.

You guys are talking about it last week I was listening and I was like trying to join in and it wasn't working because it was recording and it wasn't really what's happening with this mic?

Why is it my work?

But I do think there is something in that about like cinema as an outlet for creators.

I think, you know, the transaction, like the kind of the direct transactionality of it, the event led how it's an event, it's a community event as opposed to say, you know, Mr.

Beast hitting Amazon prime where you kind of have to hit up with a subscription.

Coming to a cinema is such a moment.

And it's also like a kind of a one off transaction that I'm going to go.

If people don't expect to have to, then I've got this Amazon prime like subscription.

I maybe need to do something with it.

It's more like I go into the cinema, I know what I'm getting out of it.

And it's just, it's a very comfortable kind of known, warm fuzzy kind of approach.

Yeah.

And it's that communal, communal collective moment in time, isn't it?

It's that moment that you experience together.

You.

It's not something you can time shift because you want to experience it with your friends.

And if you, if you didn't do it, you're out of the loop the next week at college or at school or whether whatever you're hanging out with your friends.

So there is that driver, that compunction to.

No, I have to see it this weekend.

This is important to me.

Yeah, yeah.

And it feels a bit like the, it feels like kind of a music artist then really galvanizing their fan base to go and see their live show or that kind of event.

It has, has that feeling about it.

Okay, who wants to take the bet that it extends after two weeks?

So in two weeks it was supposed to be four.

It was supposed to be four days.

It's now extended to two weeks.

In those two weeks it hits YouTube and Netflix concurrently.

Those episodes.

What do we think the likelihood is that they might end up extending the cinema window?

Yeah, I think there is.

And, and I think the interesting thing about it is that the irony is that you've got something that's a very much an Internet led phenomenon, create a creator made film.

But that's also helping to it's increasing support for the idea of extending cinema windows is, you know, one of the oldest, one of the oldest kind of entertainment events and something that was seen as being old fashioned and kind of a relic of the past.

That kind of that substantial cinema theatrical window.

Weirdly, all of these creatum made movies are sort of making the point for extending that.

Again, I think it comes back to the social thing.

There's a limit to how many of your friends you can get around your phone screen or even your TV screen if you're watching it on Netflix.

So I do think I'm with you, Emily.

I think they could sit concurrently together.

You've got the social, let's go to the cinema, let's dress up.

The amount of cosplay screenings I saw was just brilliant.

I love the crazy creativity of that.

But then there's the repeat watchability.

You know, there's again, there's you watch it at home, you maybe try and introduce your mum and dad to it because they're saying, you know, hang on, what's this, what's this amazing digital surface thing I'm hearing about?

So I think they all scratch a slightly different itch, but they can equally coexist alongside one another.

And interestingly, Netflix famously flip flopping on their approach to theatrical.

Not something that they control in this case.

So they're going to have to just live with it if it gets extended, whether they like it or not.

Yeah, yeah.

But I was thinking about this as it relates to K Pop Demon Hunters and I know we've another, another point in the schedule to talk about K Pop Demon Hunters which turns a year next week.

But looking at that, looking at the numbers.

So Netflix brought out the K Pop Demon Hunter sing along in Cinemas version, right?

Like that is actually again one of the first.

The flip to the flop of the U turn that they've done around Cinemas drove $18 million in box office domestically and I think amazing Digital Circus did 21.

So it's best at that.

Ultimately we could see in the viewership that actually increased the viewership to K pop Demon Hunters that week.

So it does, it's, it's, it's everything.

Every everywhere strategy.

Right.

Like if, when, when, when a fandom is in this sort of furor pattern, you know, it's all additive.

All boats are rising.

Yeah.

And do you think this changes the, the mindset for creators as well?

Because this is a classic example of they own the rights.

They, they license it to Netflix.

Netflix don't own the rights to Digital Circus, so they have the freedom to be able to make the cinema play, to.

To have their YouTube channel coexisting with Netflix.

And so it's a much more powerful position for them to have that independence to really be able to kind of make those decisions.

And, And I wonder whether more and more creators will be looking at that and thinking, actually maybe there is a way to make the money work and, and be more of an independent producer within that space.

I think it's a difference between the creator economy and the producer economy.

Right.

And I've been discussing this on LinkedIn this week.

Creators build their audience from the ground up, and they build their content from the ground up.

And usually the best ones are doing something they're so intensely passionate about that they'd probably be doing it anyway.

They'd be finding a way to do it anyway.

And that means when they come into these traditional media settings, they're bringing in their own audience, they're bringing in this back end.

They're bringing in, you know, they're bringing in their own stability.

They're not coming in with the begging bill asking for money, or, you know, even if they are asking for money, they're not needing the money.

Right.

Like, they already have something that's firing themselves, and that puts them in a much better position when it comes to negotiating these rights.

And I do think they should be bullish, and I do think they should be not dazzled by the Hollywood, you know, the whole Hollywood shtick.

You know, we've talked about this from a streaming point of view, someone like Ms. Rachel hitting Netflix.

I really hope Ms. Rachel is making bank from that because she is bringing a huge audience there.

This is the kind of the opposite of what traditional Hollywood pipeline looks like, where you need the permission, you need the green light from the studio to move forward.

And in that position, plenty of producers will sign away the rights to their best idea.

You know, and I think that's.

That's one of the issues with the current system is that, like, they're signing away all sorts of things to commissioners that Some of which aren't necessary, some of which aren't helpful, you know, things like YouTube rights, etc.

Where nobody's winning when those rights are locked away.

And, you know, I think that's the real benefit creators are bringing into the room is that they're coming at it from a position of security, they're not coming at it from a position of permission, you know, and that they don't need the permission of the studios to go forward.

And that's what we've seen.

And that's one of the issues with producers.

They're saying yes to any deal because they want to get the show made, but then when the show ends up being humongous, you know, then they're, they're, they're on the back foot.

Or maybe it doesn't end up being humongous because the rights position has been unstrategic from a, from a, from a strategy point of view.

Unstrategy from a strategy point.

Yeah.

And, and I think, I mean that, that's all absolutely kind of on point, I think, but I think there's almost like a hangover from the old system to the new system.

And I think producers have been conditioned to operate more on the way the old system worked and the opportunities of the new system are evolving anyway.

So stuff like the cinema play wasn't really a thing a year ago and now has become something that is a potential opportunity there.

It reminds me.

So I have some experience with the way theater works in terms of developing a show and then getting that out there.

And it's very different from TV and film in some respects because traditionally the platform or the broadcaster would be the gatekeeper for whether your show got made.

Whereas in theater there's.

You raise the capital and you get the money together and then you book a theater and it's about the availability of the theater.

But it's not, they're not, the theaters aren't gatekeepers in the same way as a broadcaster traditionally has been a gatekeeper.

So, so it reminds me a bit that you've got some creator made movies where they're literally booking the cinemas now.

They're not having to get permission from, from a broadcaster.

They've made the product and then they're looking to book space to show the product.

It's similar to the way it might work for a stage production.

Yeah, it's interesting that shift.

Yeah.

Isn't it interesting that not two years ago those theater chains were all under pressure and the studios were a little bit like, you know, you're on your own.

And it was looking pretty disastrous.

I wonder if now those, you know, the AMCs and the Cineworlds of this world are sitting there thinking this is great.

We don't, we're not reliant on that slate of studio movies coming down the pipe and getting screwed over by them.

Now we've got this whole other avenue of potential supply.

Oh yeah.

I mean for them it must, you.

Know, ticket buyers in in droves, yen in costume.

Yeah.

And it, and it gets them over the problem that they've probably had for decades, which is that there, there aren't a lot of studios that supply movies.

So, so they, they don't have a lot of negotiating power because if Disney and Warner Brothers decide that they're not going to respect the theatrical window, there's not, people will assume there aren't that many other options for them to go to.

If suddenly you've got, you know, a world of creator made movies, you've potentially got a lot of clients looking to book cinema spaces.

Back to the point about creators knowing their worth or the value of what they have created, I think, you know, we've spitballed many times on can Hollywood play in the creator economy and can creators be the new Hollywood?

I think the creative side of things will learn the art of that deal making and owning IP much quicker than Hollywood will learn create them.

And really, you know, when I think about someone like Simon Pullman who we've had on before, he was working with creator setups to do option deals for Roblox experiences.

You've got Adam Starr, he's another lawyer that joined Do Big Studios, one of the big Roblox developers who came from a traditional kind of media background.

I think they're learning and they're learning pretty quickly.

So I would be surprised if in 12 months time we were still hearing of creators who had perhaps got done over and given away too much power.

I think they're beginning to wise up.

To the power 100% and that's the difference.

I was having this conversation as well about a producer versus a creator.

The traditional entertainment industry.

In the traditional entertainment industry, expertise is sit in silos.

You know what I mean?

You're a director, you're a writer, you're a producer, you are a rigger, you're an animator and you sit in silos.

The creator economy doesn't tolerate that.

You need to know they wear all of these hats in one person.

Exactly, exactly.

And so their ability to adapt, their ability to learn is innate to the environment.

That's brought them up.

So it's.

Yeah.

And I really.

The other thing about this I think is like we're at wave, I don't know, first wave of first, first wave, wave of creators, second wave creators, third wave of creators.

Are we at the fourth wave of creators?

The professional professionalization of it where, you know, these aren't people who are just, you know, only go up and around their backyards.

Right.

Like the professionalism of creators, that professionalization of it in terms of, you know, production and how sophisticated it is, is, is now there.

Right.

Like they are the alter, they are replacing Hollywood.

So it's not just, you know, mom and pop in the back in the backyard shop, you know, trying to figure this out.

These are people who are doing deals with their, you know, for their own production, doing deals for their own premises, all that kind of stuff.

So I think you're right, Joe.

I think, you know, that that learning curve is going to be, you know, pretty achievable for them the next year or so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The, the other thing that it makes me wonder is.

So there's still a lot of debate about the social media ban for under.

Six things she cruise and you're, you're bringing like we were going down a whole new rabbit hole now.

But it's connected because I feel like the success of all of these creator made movies, the social media aspect of it is a big component of it.

So and, and that audience, I, I would imagine there's a sizable audience that even though digital circus is pitched at an older audience, I still imagine that you're having some audience, some younger audiences that are under that 16 line.

And how does, how does that impact or change the way those movies are promoted in the future?

Kind of.

That's something that's maybe not an answer.

There's maybe no answer to that.

But I, I'm curious to see what will happen on that.

Yeah, I think it materially hampers the ability to get to that stage where people absolutely will mobilize and follow their favorite creator or their favorite animation created by.

I mean, you know, Gooseworx is credited as being the creator of amazing Digital Circus within with glitch, but I think it materially hampers that ability to mobilize.

Now we in kids media have been living with that for a while because regulation precludes them from being able to make comments and share and do all of those things that have propelled the Curry Parsons and the Curry barkers and the Kane Parsons and all of those IP into this.

This voracious fandom.

But if you turn it off for all under 16s, yeah, I think something like Amazing Digital Circus would really, would really have suffered because like we said on, on last week's pod, you know, it is every comment, every share, every remix, every something is an investment by a fan in that creator.

It's a level deeper in terms of love and trust and affinity that ultimately then when they ask you to go and buy a cinema ticket to go and watch it in the cinema, you go, yes.

I mean, don't you.

You don't think twice.

So, yeah.

Be interesting to see what happens with that.

I think.

I'm not personally for it, not that I don't think there needs to be regulation and safeguards, but I think a whole ban for under 16s, I think it's potentially squashes any future Amazing Digital Circus out there.

I think with the band situation, we're kind of like, we're in the moment where the waiter has tripped the tray is going up in the air and we're waiting to see what.

How everything lands.

Basically.

I think you're right.

It is a real moment of transition.

It is a real moment to profoundly shape and change the fabric of the Internet as we know it.

And I don't think I'm being overly dramatic in that.

And, and it's not to say that I expect bands to come in and, and 14 year olds not to be online.

That's probably the least likely thing that's gonna happen.

It's, you know, the ways that they will find to be online are still to be written and the outcome of that is still to be divined.

So yeah, I do, I, I think those bands coming in or age restrictions will materially impact the fabric of the Internet in ways that we will not be able to, to forecast.

And yeah, I know that's not, that's not, that's not an answer, but that's.

Yeah, I might buy some shares in VPN companies though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I kind of, I think it might.

It'll be interesting also to see how what that actually means in.

There's a lot of discussion in terms of the changes that, that people are talking about.

But yeah, the proof will be.

The proof will be in kind of the actual what happens, what happens in reality and what the experience is like.

And I hope that there's.

Because I don't, I don't think it's.

I don't think a fair solution will just be to shut under sixteens out from.

Be able to play within the, to sort of play on the Internet and learn on the Internet.

Because there are a lot of bad things that we talk about from social media and, and the Internet in general, but there's also some good things.

I mean, it's.

If you're, you can find your tribe online that you might not be able to find kind of in your neighborhood.

And it can be a way to kind of to develop your own sense of identity as well.

Isn't one of the lads who directed one of those movies itself top Blender off the Internet?

Yeah, I mean, so Kane Parsons, I think, started on Discord at 14 and taught himself Blender.

That's a classic example of something where social media enables that kind of self learning and discovery.

And that's not to say he didn't find any pornography on Discord alongside the Blender tutorials.

Right.

That's the real.

Yes.

All right.

On that note, yes, that's a perfect.

Place to end it.

To end the kids with the podcast pornography on Discord.

I feel like I should pay responsibility for throwing that hand grenade in about the social media.

It was all going so well and so positive before you were talking about creator movies.

Anyway, so should I do a wrap up?

Yes, do.

Before, before you say anything else.

Yes.

So we hope you enjoyed that.

We'd love to hear what you think about Digital Circus, creator made movies, even a comment on the social media regulations.

And please like and subscribe and listen to us wherever you get your podcast and we'll see you all next week.