An expert in payments with over 30 years experience, President of Worldwide Payment Services Oscar Muñoz, has witnessed boundless change in how businesses pursue (and receive) their revenue.

This episode is foundational listening for all CROs and anyone CRO-adjacent, as Oscar covers: COVID-triggered revenue shifts, the two CRO types, the art of building diverse teams, six steps to winning in any c-suite role, and the how and why of breaking down revenue silos.

Join Warren and Lupe as they explore Oscar's diverse, sometimes surprising, experiences, interests and talents, and discover why he values happiness, both at work and at home, above all else.

🔗 LINKS

Connect with Oscar, Warren and Lupe on LinkedIn.

Equip your team to build the pipeline of their dreams with Create Pipeline from Sales IQ. Find out more here.

Hi, and welcome to the this next episode of the CRO spotlight podcast. Hi Lupe.

As a matter of fact, I read this introductory stuff and I thought, boy, I feel like a loser right now. So Oscar is the founder and chairman of worldwide payment services and the co-founder of the chairman of altered ethics. He's been working in the art and science of sales and the people that make them happen in organizations of 1 billion and above even before the term billion was even used.

He's been driving sales and innovation for the Tronic payments industry for over 31 years. His background includes the creation of the first independent sales organization for merchant services by the age of 20. After a short tours in AW382 within the US Navy, he completed his masters in business administration and accounting major ended with a 4.0 GPA.

And then a graduate studies and electronic payments acceptance industry. He's part of the team that invented mobile point of sale or NPOS as we know it today. He's managed revenue responsibility for global organizations within the payment technology and stream on different initiatives and organizational settings on both sides of the spectrum.

We'll start up, turn around stages. He's an active speaker, over 150 events. He spoke. He's also a lifelong proponent of corporate wellness and a lifelong passionate student of health jumps out of planes. He's a martial arts teacher, certified skydiver weightlifter pro natural bodybuilder. So, as you can see, as I'm reading this I'm I want to leave the room, but Oscar, thank you, really impressive, and it's great to have you here.

So it's an exciting industry to have been part of, it's near and dear to my heart. So thank you for making the time. Like you Warren, I felt a bit diminished on experience and qualifications is that is where you're introducing Oscar, but he's a great guy. And I think you left out one of the most probably renowned things that he does.

He's a break dancer and yeah, so had the the, the pleasure of seeing it. And I think you could probably Google it, right. Oscar. Yeah. He was at a corporate event and was able to do a breakdowns flawlessly and, and not prepared or dress for the occasion. Nonetheless, I think he was wearing suits and business shoes, so.

But, but the funny thing is that I would have never expected to, to be doing that. And in one of the largest uh, you know, the Jeff was a Jeff Yabuki was incredible in pulling people. A Fiserv forum became that event that you can get 6,500 bankers on the one room.

And actually I remember Lupe that year it was Joe Biden, who the President now, right. Who was the keynote. And and the host was Stephan tWitch Boss who was one of the best dancers in the world, and judgeon So You Think You Can Dance, he's a DJ on Ellen Degeneres and, and the real story that you want to know. And you're going to just hear it on this podcast is that we were doing a deal with a bank in Cayman islands. And he was the first deal ever, and where we were going to be able to sell digital channels without being the core banking platform provider. And we were on the last stages of that deal. But the EVP tells me Oscar, that. Is like kind of eternal, my wife and daughter are eternal fans of Stephen Twitch Boss.

And I say, well, that's the case. There's nothing else to do. I'm going to have to go challenging for dance. And he says, If you do that, you become a guide to my family. And I say, I don't think I can take that had a title, but if we closed the deal, I'd take that and the rest you take all great pictures for your, your lovely wife and daughter.

And what happened is that I ended up doing that backstage, where the exhibitors were and what I did not expect one was that I was going to do that. And then the next day after the keynote. Right. He will call me and stay on stage in front of the 6,000 bankers. And obviously it's Las Vegas. Right? You get up late that's Vegas who comes up with that idea, making these events in Las Vegas.

And next thing I know, yes, I did ended up going on stage and all that. And the funny thing is that the first guy who texted me afterwards was the gray CEO that I, I worked for. And his message was that was great. But you were late. So, so yes, yes. I I get to do all the things and I agree with you a Lupe of payment, it's a different, how do you monetize as you're living today?

Right? It's no longer that exchange is you're living. And as you're living, you're consuming and as you're consuming, you're paying, but it has evolved in so many ways, every single gray hair that I have, I owe to some kind of. Wait a max drive with a chair with a, at some point we tried Google glasses, right.

That we haven't seen them anymore. But you know that the time of inventing the concept of mobile POS and how to, how to have beeper. you haven't seen a pager in a long time that tells you all I am. We took the Blackberry rim nine 50 pager that doctors used to use, and we tied a car reader to that.

And I apologize, they're working on the building of this. And, and we've evolved to fall in some, we got to do great, whenever you're flying again, and you see any of the 25,000 flight attendants taking their phones. So I said, payments in flight that was started technology with their name on it.

We got to the great things when MasterCard, Columbia, and and their project down there for ed and mobile, the country had this idea that out of 300,000. People take an electronic payments. We really should be 1.9 million people taking electronic payments and the rest is going to be done through phones and tablets.

So I got to travel the world, doing this thing and see the impact in life that payments have, right. When you go to country. And where somebody to pay a bill and they used to come down from a very far away place. It might take two days to get to the city you're taking your boss. And if you're all enough, you start kind of seeing them with a different perspective, right?

How important it is from the comfort of our home, our phone, to be able to just pay something and keep the lights. Running and, and we give it for, for granted. It's like right now with the whole concept of crypto, right. I can give you billions of dollars in crypto and you die of hunger because no pharmacy takes it as a form of payment.

You're going to put gas in your car. Where did you cannot buy food in the supermarket? Where did so yeah, payments. I'm passionate about it Lupe. I am Jed too. we have to tell this to the, in the 150 plus events that I have done. I still waiting for that time. When I say I'm going to talk about payments and the crowd goes wild 'cause it hasn't happened yet.

I'm a techno freak. I'm not like some old fogy in this respect, but. This is incredible. Like the way the world is evolving and I think Lupe, it makes a great point. It's not boring in the respect that I think it's one of these things. That's, if you took it away, if you took away people's ability to help, we can pay for things right now with the Venmo and PayPal.

How I use these stuff every day, people have no idea. The ubiquity of these things and how they become embedded in the way we transact. So it's, it's, it's fascinating.

Right. And then we were just talking at the beginning here, traveling budgets, being, being eliminated, and digital became the thing. Okay. And it is peculiar because just before this, I was reading the latest Harvard review and they were talking about that only 17% now of the purchase process is happening talking to suppliers.

And I was surprised by that, but it matches to what Gartner was saying that 80% of those contexts are happening through digital fronts. So what that tells you is that. you have to be able to have your reach to all of it. If you're not involved in the marketing automation and what happens to a customer before, during, and after the sale, it becomes a real tough job to pursue.

So how do you integrate all those things together as working as one and, and, and stop creating, that lead to revenue process has changed dramatically. And that process of, of having like a funnel that has a beginning and an end instead of the way you have to work at now, which is that flywheel effect of continuous interaction requires that those departments are working together as one.

So there is a, for me, it is the only way to survive today. If you're going to have your hands. And everything from the marketing automation that is happening, the full sales engagement that has taken place, and then the customer success process. And I personally define customer success before, during and after.

Right. Not just after somebody has delivered and close the deal. So there's no way for you to really have a, a path to revenue without.

Over 200 companies, first of all, the website will have over 700 different solutions because every time you buy a company and they bring their product notebook, then you have an array of products. And when you buy these companies and they already have their own little. Checked right for how they deal with customers, how they go out to market and out, and then you you're bringing them all together on the one roof that those silos and those walls become kind of challenging to break up that really dealing with different marketing departments fighting to see who has the biggest biceps, right.

Was going to end up fighting for the biggest portion of the cake. And it is just the way has always been done. But I think that is a challenge wanting to understand that. Before is no longer good. And it is happening today. You are correct. That's why I was so impressed. I was reading on your website.

The things that you guys are doing this role really needs to change the perspective that it is not a chief marketing officer doing things over there. And then. We call it customer success management, but not many people call it customer success management. It's still have customer service name and some places who sell our cloud managed account management.

And he's a very different definition, right? Success customer success is a very different definition. Those things can no longer be separated. So I think the challenge is just a historical weight, right? Being, being guilty of our own success, doing different things. And then when we come together, it has become more challenging in practice and in theory.

And if you were going to advise someone like interviewing for a chief revenue up position, how would you advise those two folks as to, what questions to ask? What the think through? I'd love your perspective on that.

Right? You have, I can, from my previous experience, I can always divide them in those two clear paths and, and usually depends how that person got there. Right. So you have on one extreme, you have the folks that very respectfully, so they don't really know anything about. The product that they sell or what they solve for their customers right there, their grade in Excel, they're almost as good as a CFO talking about the numbers and they know that Excel left and right.

Their dashboard very clear, some people say kind of more of a desk jokey kind of guy. And, and again, they have their place, right? So when a CEO is interviewing for a COO, I think there is a place when that makes sense. And I'll talk about that in a moment, right? And then you have the other guy who has that deep domain knowledge expertise.

Who gets involved and tells you exactly when the business does the deal. It tells you exactly what they solve, what they fix and how they're making a difference with those deals in the front end. Right? One of them purposely tells you, I don't need to know the other one gets his hands completely involved.

So, so to be fair, and to answer your question, right, I think in my own world, in my humble opinion, you need both, right? So it depends on the situation or the stage that that CEO of that organization is. At the moment, right? So depending on where you are is what needs to be done. And then that defines the kind of athlete you got to bring to play the game.

So, so if you are in an already successful organization, and what you're doing is just preserving that vitality of a machine that is just running perfectly, right. A well oiled machine, and actually your, your biggest challenge of. It's almost what to say no to, instead of what to say. Yes. Right. Making sure that the team is doing what it's doing and you're not getting yourself spread too thin.

And you're being very careful on the initiatives that you take. You have already a strong team in there, in place and so on. So I think that the first GYN. Is is the kind of guy, right? That's CRO that can almost easily double as a CFO is probably that guy that you want. Right. That, that is gonna, is going to be able to look at that business also internal round situations, right?

You, you, you look at if you're kind of surviving and you have to turn around the business that everybody knows is in trouble and you got to make these tough decisions that you just going to look at it back to sales, see what gives you, what a return you're going to start cutting things off. And, I think that first person.

Is the right guy for that. But, but if you find yourself more of, in a startup kind of situation, or maybe if you even made it to the next level, which is when you're have that accelerated growth process, that you're kind of creating everything from, from system, from people from structure. Then I have my own personal thinking that you need.

To have a guy with deep domain knowledge, because particular you're going to have now this integrated view of marketing success, management and sales. And if you want to put the message, if you want sales to be able to work. With marketing in a continuous fly wheel and where, I start prospecting and here I go through a pursuit plan, based on what happens, they're going to go back to marketing was going to keep sending content information, right.

It doesn't mean the sell didn't happen today. So for you to be able to help any of those departments, you kind of have to understand what you're fixing beneath that. Right? How do you add value and right. And I had the honor of working with some CEOs of very large companies. And man, you will sit with them and they will tell you that sometimes it will be mind blowing.

You know, Jeff Duke is one of those guys that will tell you exactly what the technology fix in a smallest country, in a corner of a world when we did that, that deal. Right. And so I think you have those two as a CEO, you have to kind of first evaluate what is the situation, the stage of your. Based on that.

I know the strategies that I have to go in. Am I, again, am I sustaining the success of the company in a turnaround situation? I'm on a startup situation? Am I just, ready, went from startup to really working on accelerated growth where I have to really, fine tune that team and keep going.

And then based on that, you say, okay, this is a Cyril that the revenue officer that I need to do that. And, and he fired. In the startup and accelerate growth ran. I need somebody that can really come in and, and inject the structure. The processes help the three departments to really move around the customer in the middle of that equation.

So that's my 2 cents on that.

So if I'm at an earlier stage and I, and I have the knowledge or awareness that I need to type of chief revenue officer. Or proposing, which I agree with. W what happens now? Is there a point at which that, that CRO sorta becomes no longer useful? Or do you develop that CRO to become that other one? Or is it more like, you know I buy the product I need today, and then I buy a new product when I need it.

W what's your thoughts on continuity in terms of growth and development of that role and how those different types of competencies are so different? Because I say it for this reason, right? It's because I'm training a lot of people to be chief revenue officers right now. So as they enter into a company, I'm actually giving them the same advice.

I'm saying, what situation are they in and what type of person do they need? What are the skill sets and competencies that are appropriate for that particular circumstance? Right. And if that person is, is the right kind of person for that, the question comes up is, well, what's going to happen with. That job has done.

How do I develop my skills to stay in the job and grow, or do I have to leave? And they replaced me with somebody else. W what are your thoughts on how that could take place or what your thoughts are and how, from a CEOs perspective, how you'd manage that type of succession planning?

I enjoy this podcast already. I, I will tell you that I, I personally, I believe that people need to be past. happy, healthy, passionate people just perform better. So let me start with that. Doesn't matter what you're doing, right? You're making coffee, you're cleaning offices. You're right. And for me being happy means that you have to leave a coherent life between what you value, who you are and what you.

Right. And actually people, I know more about this than I have come out with the idea. There's only three things you got to worry about. If you really want to have a happy life at work. And that includes, one, you have to be able to express who you are in your job. Right. If I like to write poems, then that's, that's what I do.

I write poems and my level of expression is probably really high up. And then the second thing is you have to have impact. And what you do. So, if I write poems, I might have a lot of expression, but the reality of my level of impact in the world is going to take a while before the whole world is reading my pond.

So my impact is probably not, not that much. Right. And then the third aspect is compensation. You have to, if my expectation of compensation is really high for me, writing poems, And I expect to grow a lot of impact, then I'm not leaving a coherent life, right. So I have to coherence is something very personal.

So to your answer is, and now we'll apply it to the chief revenue officer. I have seen both sides of that expect to one that is, we all are people that are very coachable. You're going to learn that the folks that make, we have learned that. To this stages, they usually are in general, very, very humble and hungry.

They're very coachable kind of people. So I, I have no doubt that you can move across that spectrum of becoming that, from that startup expert to that turnaround expert, I'm sure they are capable of moving through that spectrum. But I think the other side of that one, which is some people that come.

They love the energy. They lost the passion. They love the mess of going into a startup and having to create everything from start. And that's their adrenaline. They get up every day and they get on that bike. Right. And once that ride is over and now we're going to stop going from the mountain to now flat planes in the city.

They say, listen, that's not my ride anymore. big, big somebody else. So I think can they be trained? To do a different kind of gig. Yes. They're going to be happy and they're going to get up every day with the same passion and adrenaline to do that kind of job. And I think that's a bigger question.

Right, right. Yeah.

And so how, what advice would you give somebody who. Doesn't necessarily fit the expected mold as to how to ride. Within a company and become that C level executive. You've done an incredible job of, climbing through organizations, having, huge responsibility and in the process built, beautifully diverse teams.

And so I I'd love to glean some advice and some thoughts on that.

Right. I mean, it's hard, it's hard to fake some of those things, right. And there, and nobody makes a right or wrong. Right. Different, different strokes for different folks. But I think that these companies need to pick based on the game you're gonna play. It has to. The player and they have to be happy doing it.

This is something they want to do. I love, we're right now in a project, I'll give you an ideas. We'll make it public and a few months down the line. So it's still running around under a stealth mode. And I love the fact that. I had for the first time, this last week to ask the team to work less, can you imagine a CEO, a CRO telling the team, please stop working this hard.

You got people putting in 15, 16 hours, and I'm not asking anyone to put 15, 16 hours. They just are so clear on that. Share unified vision. And, want to become the number one throw region, doing this thing that they get up on that bike every day. I don't have to tell them. I actually, literally, I promise you last week, I had to tell them, I'm sorry.

I had to tell him, please, guys, look out, look out for a moment. Cause he's getting so. And what happens when you get everybody, you give somebody direction of where, where we all want to go as a collective and you get the right leader. On top of that. And you, then you put the share accountabilities and you're tracking the right daily KPIs.

You know, people in general, they want to feel important. We go back to that expression. We go back to that impact and, and, and, and by the way, competitive compensation doesn't have to be hired. You never want to be lower, right? Just competitive compensation. You give people the way for them to express who they are and create an impact in the business and give them the north.

And they will go to war for you. So. So I, I think. There is no right or wrong. If you think about me, right. I don't, I jump out of planes. I, I get electrocuted with 10,000 balls, some mud runs and, and I break dance and, and I, so, so I competed, so I am a senior usual as they come. The funny thing is that I've been blessed that the CEOs that hire me, they say, This is the guy that has the guy.

That's what I need. The guy that's jumping out of planes and doing these things I want them to move to. So I personally believe you gotta bring the whole person in and appreciate that individuality. And if parts of that equation, that old saying that it is not personal it's business, that doesn't apply, right.

It is. It's the same person from nine to five, that it is from, five through the rest and going to bed. Okay. So you got to buy into the whole. First I is my personal take. I think when these hires go wrong is when you, when you hire this persona that wrote this resume and gave you what you wanted to hear, but then turn around and really is somebody else.

Right? And in my thinking is always that. If you have to be someone different at home that you are at work, then in one of the two places you're lying. And if you're not, if you're lying in one of those two places, you're no longer living that coherent life think catches up to you again. So I keep it simple.

You hire the whole human being.

Particularly in like mobile point of sale, et cetera, et cetera. What do you, I mean, obviously you're, you're very diversified. You do a lot of things, both in and out of work. And I could, I could tell through your personality that you're one of these people, it's the same, no matter where you are, which I think is I completely concur with that.

If you're looking at someone again, I'm thinking about the people listening to this right now, we've got heads of sales or heads of marketing leaders whom are looking to move up the ranks or increase. Their ability to make an impact in the world that they're in or CEO's or looking to add people to their organizations that can do that.

What are the types of things that in your experience, do you see. In terms of developing your own career or developing your own Ascension into larger scope and bigger responsibilities and taking on a less functional responsibility and more organizational responsibility, because that's, that's sort of the trajectory of the people who are looking at this, this listening to this right now.

And And once we have the right people on the bus, right. Then you together, you decide where you're going. Right. Get the right process in, in places. I don't know if you've heard the same stuff of Dr. Deming, right? Edward Deming. I don't think he got as popular as he should have. I think social media.

Wasn't that great back then. So, but, but I, I love, I love the simplicity of what he says in every aspect. Right. Manage the cause. Not the results. A bad system is going to beat a good person every single time. So getting, so the things that will help you in success is that you get the right people, but for God's sakes, give them the right process and framework.

So you can all, once you give him the right vision that is hopefully built together is not something you're putting down like that. You're saying, Hey, let's get together as a team. And again, this is why I say depends on the stage of the company, right? Everything we're talking depends on the stage of the company, but if you want to call it.

You know, there some things that are very important, no matter where you are, revenue solves all problems. That's why we're talking in here. Right? Chief revenue officer revenue shall solve all problems. And I will, I will actually say that the CRO is probably the most important role, he has to make sure that the CEO and the CFO or his best friends.

And if you think about it, the CEO and the CFO's. they get to talk about what the CRO is selling, right? So, so you have to make sure that the CRO is, but get the right people in, put the right processes in place. If you can, again, not explain what you're doing in a process and you don't know what you're doing.

Right. So get the right processes in place. And when I mean, is that, sales is such an important engine, right? Without nothing happens if somebody sells something right. But, but sales now, for me, it's a competitor. Terms, some people look at sales now they want to put another name to it. I have been working on teams.

I remember I'm not going to say the right. I'm going to go into a country that the sales executives and the head of sales, they didn't want to be called salespeople. Right. What's wrong with that right now. Now the problem is that you have to know social media, you have to know marketing, you have to know sales has evolved.

And now we know that that percentage of the interaction that will happen in person is much less. And if you're dealing with a millennial who are now making decisions is even more or less, they want to talk to you even less. So you have to really maximize that point of interaction with that point of persuasion.

And you have to become an expert in so many other things, but we're still saying. Right. I'm I'm certainly with my kids every day and I'm trying to sell my wife now. And then where are we going to go? How are we going to do right now? I'm not so successfully. So by the way, but, but in business, I think it's such an important thing.

We set the right process in place for success. And I'll give you a quick example of what not to use the whole hour on this, but, if you, you, the good old art art of fanatical prospecting has been, has been kind of people thinking you set up these systems and they just going to do everything.

And sales is just going to come to you. And the challenge is that the best system, all this is going to do is meant what you do, right. Or what you do. Right. It's going to really come to surface the thing. So if you want to be successful as a CRO, right, you have to make sure that once you get the right people, you're given the right north, you select what are those wildly important goals that really moves us?

And what are the levers that really move the needle to get to those goals? You put in the ride, share accountability. And sometimes depending on the stage, like the stage I'm in now, right? I made it a point that either the whole team is going to get the total compensation and nobody's going to get the total compensation and that kind of United that start a group.

You know, there is no individual accounts don't belong to anyone. Marketing is sending us meetings. Marketing goes out to field calls. They want to understand, right? So he became that cohesive team that is doing all these things. So once you settled those things, then you say, okay, now we're going to go down to the detail of it.

And if you were to look for example, at the, the head of cell, all the reps under him, their calendar looks exactly the same. They all have two hours of fanatical prospecting, three hours of customer meetings, and there is a processing place in where even the unscheduled items. And now that process is in there, right?

So you created the right framework and then, all right, and now you got the meeting. What happens? Well, now you have to have the proper opportunity work plan, so you can go deep in discovery. And then when those marketing goes into that equation, when marketing has been on that equation, all along, sending content, looking at trigger events, analyzing buyers, second ELLs, and making sure that by the time you make.

Call call is not a cold call. It's a smart call. Cause they have seen your name, your brand that get into content that they want to get. So really working as one, right. Really, really working as one. So you get that framework, you get that process. You're given the rhinos, you put people in there and you're going to assent.

There is no way that that team, right. You select the right winners to begin when you give them that right process to succeed, creating by expressing who they are. And I guarantee you. Only up can, can be for you as far as you want to go. Right. I, I, as I mentioned where some folks say after here,

If I was a champion and Fiserv that's not a pay for thing, right. There were people that couldn't even make it to the copier machine back then when you had offices and you will walk to a copy machine. Right. And and, and we started having them lead teams that will walk around the building.

And that was your day one. Right. And that was your definition of wellness. So you really have to enjoy. Love care for people first and their success. And when that is really the end, you, you, you're not faking that. That's something that you really mean, right? Because you have to be authentic. That's number one.

And when you do that, you go to that silo department and you say, Hey, we have, and really that's when leadership comes into play because you have to have that bigger vision and that bigger role that is moving the whole organization, not just parts of the organization. Right. I love to blend.

Before he retired. I loved it when they put in, they even, they didn't call it a vision. Actually he called it an aspiration is something is so high up that we're never going to get to it. And he became to move money and information in a way that moves the world. Right. And wow, what an impactful thing. Let me go sell a bank in Haiti.

Let me digitize places where, it became. It became something else. And so you have to have leadership buy-in to this. They have to know that this is a serious thing, right? We have to fix this thing. And once you do that, you see everybody in the table. We honest concern for how, how are you going to get to your.

What helps you raise your goals? And he said that the goal is incorrectly set up to begin with, and we need to then move higher up and say, we have to kind of make this thing fit better. So you do that. You do that. And honestly, nine out of 10 times, you're going to have people that say, listen, I see that you're coming from a good place.

I see that you want to really help me help you, help us all, all. Let's come and talk about it. And sometimes that one out of 10, you're going to get somebody who has been there too long. Is there a way in a way, and then you have to make your decision right? Until I do. I stick around for that. And I have personally, I can tell you that I have turned down money can only buy so many things.

Who Lupe and warned you, you all know that, right? There's some things coming. I I've been in good jobs and I've been on jobs that I will, have to take pills. And I, before the weekly forecast call and things like that, because somebody decided that a number in there had to be there.

Without any explanation of that number is even possible or not, or, well, it's just the way how's it, it been done. The number was this and now is that, so if you, if you, if you find yourself in that situation and you cannot break through the right way with folks, then ultimately, the stations need to be made, cause happiness has to be number one.

So they're entering into an organization that's sort of, not that I'll kind of tout this a little bit is not CRO ready, as I say, right. They're sort of, you're, you're, you're being brought in if properly, if you're brought in properly as a CRO, you're sort of being taught. Clean this up, bring, bring some order to this disorganization.

We haven't been able to do it. And this is the investigative part of the conversation that I. Yeah, I'm interested in is how do you make that transition? So that, cause as you said, it in, in, in, in that great answer, you just gave, you need to have leadership's buy-in that this isn't a vision that they want to do.

So you have to sort of in a way, sell in this vision first. And so when you take the job, you know that you have the right and I, I usually say authority, autonomy resources and runway, to be able to accomplish the goals that you need. What's your suggestion, like someone who is moving into a new situation where they can sense that maybe they're going to be actually fighting upward as, as well as across and down.

Is it, I don't want to answer it for you, but is it maybe an, a binary choice between, don't take the opportunity. It might be one where you can't succeed or is there a way that you. Influence the situation such that success is possible.

I think this whole. Zoom era's we're doing right now, whoever thought, right. That we can have a craziest kind of conversation. And it has changed a bit the way this interview process are going. Right. So, so the CRO is really being interviewed by a lot of people because we want to make sure that there is that cultural.

Yep. It has to, it has to fit. And again, right. I go back to the stage of that organization because if an organization is in a turnaround survival mode, there is a reason for that. And the guy doesn't necessarily need to be liked by whoever that's true, wherever it is. You got to be very true. So depends on the stage.

But I do, there's six things that, that, that Try to implement when I'm onboarding someone high up or when I'm, and I apply them to myself and, first I, I always, organized to learn. I have to know why do I need to learn how fast can I learn it from who I'm going to learn that.

Right. And it's important too, to do that, then. obviously we, based on the conversations and all the research that you have and your conversations from above your best friend, CEO, and CFO, you get to define what is that strategic intent? What is that vision that the whole organization is going to become?

And then from there you say, okay, number three, is that I take, what are the eight item priorities, right? What are the top three things. I got to accomplish, no matter what, now, once you know what the game and the plays, and you look at the team that you have inherited, you build that leadership team and you do that.

And then, the two other things that are very important to have that virtuous instead of issues, a virtuous circle is that, you secure some early wins. You make sure that you energize the company with that end in the meantime that you're doing that, you're building all the supporting alliances.

So that's when you're looking in and saying, okay, what do I have? How do I, marketing gotta love me. Accounting gotta love me. Finance got to love me league. I gotta love me. Cosmic rights, implementations, professional services. They all have to be my best friend. None of them know that I tell them all they're my best friend, but they all think they are.

And then, so, so once you do that, I think I think it's going to really go back. That's why it's such a partnership with the CEO, right. And it's such a partnership because there's going to be, that's why an organization has a CEO and ahead of everything, right? There's going to be a point and where you try to break the silo one way or the other.

And then if you notice that it happens to be that you are walking into one of those situations. Okay. That happens to be that the CEO and the other person in charge of product orange, the other person is saying they're working together and you just a new guy and you cannot break through that.

I go back Lauren to. To the, we'll have to make that decision based on our values internally. And what makes you come home with a smile from ear to ear and be a good father to your kids and a husband to your wife or your significant other, right.

And speaking to us, this has been great. I could see, like there's probably another hour we could spend with you. Your time is valuable. We appreciate it. And I know, thanks Lupe for setting up this, this, this this interview. Cause Oscar was really great to me.

Thank you. And thank you for all the great things that you guys are doing. So I appreciate, I appreciate your time.

The core platforms that, that have been running, this were the same ones that were created 26, 30 years ago. And what happens with that, which sometimes we don't think about that is that the world just based on convenience have continued to evolve legacy. Right. So you have this thing, you're riding cobalt.

And next thing you're running the whole country, the whole world on these things and, and it's just easier to keep putting makeup of it and see how far it goes. But the challenge is then where all these core platforms were created. The only thing you have to worry about was a bin number, right?

Nobody in the world thought about. How do I, how do I, accommodating a Cigna digital signature and a transaction that was not even thought about how do I accommodate in an image, you know? And I don't have to have a passport as far as the routing and processing of a transaction. How can I bring anything that I do in the business?

Trail down to make routing and processing decisions. Those things were not even on the table back then. So what has happened is that even though you still see a lot of innovation that is happening in the front end now in this whole world in word, we always say right, that the, the customer expectations are, they is the only thing that is evolving faster than technology, right.

Is what do you expect Warren is now using that apple watch and take it away from him every time he pays and just shows the like that. Right. So. In a world that is moving so fast, the legacy technology has really kind of ran its course and it's challenging for any company. There's another CRO topic for another day to the side and say, I need to keep showing numbers up.

But how do I break what I have? And I start from scratch, right? How do I say, well, I really need to, I cannot continue to build around this legacy thing because he has gone as far as he can. I really have to change the core of it and build it with a technology that is available today. And when you do that, if you were to rise something from scratch, not 26, 30 years ago, you end up with a whole new platform.

That one is a hundred percent refund on microservices, right? No longer this whole box that you'd take out. Is, what do you need for that particular transaction said instead of rip and replace open-heart surgery, taking everything out, right? You end up with something that is native on the cloud by birth, not, not something that you're forcing into a cloud, that topic is being used.

So loosely. I plowed angled cloud compliant. You can put anything on the cloud, right? I can take any, get a virtual server and pay that rent if I use it or not. And he's up there on the cloud, or I have a platform that was born on the cloud that really allows you to us to pay by processing cycles at that LST city is needed in your so bottom line is.

You know, we believe fit is a new, random sense. It's a whole new technology. And we really putting a lot of time to it and working with some very exciting projects that they have been blessed to allow us to, to, to come in and kind of change the story because the reality is that even though you see a lot of changes in the front end and the back end of that, Really not much has changed.

It is the same thing that was built from the beginning that is doing a great job. And it was built for purpose at the time. But now you're just in different times and, banks, like we know are no longer from eight to three kind of thing, right. They have to be open all the time and, and you need to be able to not buy a whole building.

All you need is a little studio, right? You need to use that studio. And then tomorrow, my day two, you might need two or three or four and kind of evolve your business that way. So, so it's. We're excited. I got to tell you, I told you last, I have to tell us we the team. So working this hard, you're never going to hear that from a CRO.

I don't know. We should put this on a podcast, actually.

This episode was digitally transcribed.