"The Tenant Class is Here" and they are a force to be reckoned with.

Vancouver Tenants Union organizers Asura Enkhbayar and Ben Ger provide insight into their work building power from below, some of it in neighbourhoods with the highest concentration of renters on the continent. The variety of campaigns they’ve got going on doesn’t just speak to the complexity of issues facing tenants, but also to the value of a decentralized organization that’s able to respond locally, as needed.

They also share the journey their organization has gone on over the past decade, and how tough lessons led them to a Basis of Unity and a new way forward.

Hosted and Produced by: Jessa McLean

Call to Action: Donate to the Park Beach Tenants Legal Fund

Related Episodes:

• Shifting Gears is a discussion w/Climate Justice Toronto on their own transition from an environmentalist grassroots org to one focused on supporting tenant organizing in the City.
• Voices for Unhoused Liberation is an interview with unhoused organizers and activists in Toronto.
• Tenant Power: a playlist of episodes that would have landlords shaking in their boots.

All of our content is free - made possible by the generous sponsorships of our Patrons. If you would like to support our work through monthly contributions: Patreon

Follow us on Instagram or on Bluesky

More Resources:

• CBC: Power to the renter: Vancouver Tenants Union hopes to put rep in every building
• Vancouver Tenants Union: Basic of Unity

Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean,

and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints

of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated

to amplifying the work of activists, examining

power structures, and sharing the success stories

from the grassroots. Through these discussions,

we hope to provide folks with the tools and

the inspiration they need to start to dismantle

capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring

about the political revolution that we know

we need. The tenant class is It's here and

it's not just this small number of like, you

7

know, the average of 30 % or kind of like 50

% maybe. Depending on where you are, it is

8

the vast majority of people. The tenant class

certainly is here and we are about to hear

9

from two people organizing towards some incredible

goals to that very end. The Vancouver Tenants

10

Union is in our studio. They're going to provide

some insight into the work that they do building

11

power from below. in neighborhoods where they've

got some of the highest concentration of renters

12

on the continent. The variety of campaigns

they've got going on doesn't just speak to

13

the complexity of issues facing tenants, but

also to the value of a decentralized organization

14

that's able to respond locally as needed. Now,

they've been at this for over a decade, but

15

their approach has shifted over those years.

Some very hard lessons had to be learned, a

16

lot of reflection, and in the end, they came

out the other side with a basis of unity to

17

be proud of and really a new way forward. In

the same way they hope newer members can lean

18

on what the VTU have already been through, I

hope their story can serve as a cautionary

19

tale for organizers listening in, particularly

when it comes to what they have to say. about

20

engaging with electoral politics. Before we

jump right into the discussion, I want to remind

21

folks that we do rely almost entirely on word

of mouth to grow our audience. Sharing the

22

episode on your social media feeds is one easy

way to help us out. You can also leave a review

23

on whatever platform you're using to listen

right now. Lord knows the algorithm owned by

24

billionaires. is not going to boost our show.

So we need you for that. On that note, let's

25

hear more about that tenant class from Ben and

Asura. Welcome gentlemen. Can you introduce

26

yourself to the audience, please? Ben, do you

want to start? Hi, my name is Ben. I'm an

27

organizer and member of the Vancouver Tenants

Union. And I'm here with, my name is Asura.

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I'm also an organizer here in Vancouver. I

live in the West End and I've been with the

29

union for... two, three years. The union itself

is about five years old. I was scoping out

30

the website. if it's almost a decade, you guys

got to update your website or maybe it was

31

in your basis of unity and you're talking about

the history, which we'll get into later. But

32

we've talked to quite a few tenant unions on

blueprints of disruption, but never quite one

33

with so many chapters. Would you consider yourself

a coalition of tenant unions? You know, the

34

union certainly has a priority of of promoting

autonomy within the Union. But we make a clear

35

distinction of this autonomy within the Union

as opposed to autonomy from the Union. We

36

try to be quite closely tied together and that's

sort of a challenge that we're constantly facing,

37

but we do have principles that we all abide

by, a sort of common set of values, and we

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all learn from each other and try to get together

as much as humanly possible. something closer

39

or more akin to a network than a coalition,

I would say, it's still one organization. And

40

I think as you just mentioned, I think it's

really important that you also just mentioned

41

the basis of unity. I think there are critical

pieces that try to maintain kind of like coordinate

42

and like create at least some form of a unified

front while we're also exploring autonomy and

43

kind of like letting chapters explore their

own needs, know, the particular kind of like

44

circumstances, the neighborhoods in Vancouver

differ a lot depending kind of like organizing.

45

will change, the needs will change depending

on what kind of part of the city you're in.

46

And I imagine, you know, folks want to choose

different tactics, perhaps based on the type

47

of landlord that they're facing. Before we started

recording, you mentioned one of the challenges,

48

we'll use the word challenges, that you face

is adapting to different kinds of landlords.

49

Can you talk about that a little bit, how campaigns

might differ or where there's, you know, give

50

an example of a particular type of landlord

that is a struggle to go up against perhaps.

51

In terms of categorizing the types of fights

the union gets into, I would say at a baseline,

52

what the union is most focused on is organizing

what we call tenant collectives, other places

53

called tenant associations or tenant unions

of their own. The name that's happened to

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come up here is collectives, just buildings,

you know, people who are fighting against their

55

landlord with multiple units all sort of tying

together. But it's not the only type of fight

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we do. Uh, we, also do, uh, some, we call

neighborhood fights. These are, you know, in

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Vancouver, are neighborhoods like the West End,

like I sort of said, or, or maybe just calling

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with the have a lot more of these apartment

buildings. Uh, but there's also tons of neighborhoods

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in the city, in the same city that are mostly

single family, like residential neighborhoods

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where the type of fight that we're taking on

is between a basement suite renter and their

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landlord. And trying to figure out how to collectivize

that into a neighborhood fight is, a totally

62

different ballpark. Especially because sometimes

the landlords aren't these massive corporate

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landlords. Sometimes they're these quote unquote

good mom and pop landlords who in reality are

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oftentimes sometimes the worst, the most abusive.

And maybe they own a couple other units, maybe

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they're on the same street, maybe they're not,

but you're having to sort of navigate a different

66

terrain. And the last type of fight we do is

what we call site fights, which we've primarily

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done in coalition with other organizations so

far, but this is like a One big one in the

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city is called 105 Keifer. It's the type of

fight where the lot is empty and a developer

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is trying to come in and turn that into, let's

say luxury condominiums. 105 Keifer was a

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site fight in Chinatown that's been going on

for, my God, itself almost a decade or something

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like this that keeps coming up over and over.

But Chinatown and the downtown East side are

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both part of what at times has been referred

to as the poorest postal code in Canada or

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North America. I don't think it is right now,

but it's a neighbourhood pretty deeply entrenched

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with poverty and they've been trying to build

really expensive luxury condominiums there

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for quite some time. We've seen a couple of

those types of fights in Toronto. Vancouver

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has a lot of renters. According to the data

you folks were sharing, 50 % I think the nationwide

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average or in Ontario in general, it's 30%.

But you know, looking at Vancouver, 50 % is

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a lot and like 60 % of the housing in Vancouver

are... rentals. I don't know how that math

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works out, but it does. Those are incredible

numbers. I got a smile when I was reading one

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your folks were quoted in a CBC article that

you would love to have a rep in every building.

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And I thought that gave me a big smile. That

is the idea, right? Could you imagine being

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able to mobilize 50 % of the residents of Vancouver

when needed? That's a dream, isn't it? You

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folks have quite a few members already. Like

we're looking at over 2,000, you said? I think

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we're over 3,000 now. You guys got to update

your website for sure. You got way more to

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brag about. Like my notes are all out of date,

but tell me more about what it looks like right

86

now and how fast it's growing in Vancouver.

This idea of organizing as tenants, because

87

I think some people maybe a few years ago saw

this as unimaginable to kind of gain these

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kinds of numbers or especially to think of a

rep in every building and point person in every

89

neighborhood. So where are at now with the Vancouver

tenant union? would also just quickly like

90

to add to the 50 % number. It's really interesting

to these numbers are important because they

91

obviously describe the averages, but Vancouver

also has the West End. we are currently in

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the West End. matter of I live in the West End

and the West End has 80 % rent areas. And the

93

West End is the densest neighborhood in Vancouver.

I actually do believe that it's the densest

94

renters neighborhood in North America because

we just have these, a lot of six story, seven

95

story, older apartments, but also in the 67

days they built a lot of kind of like towers,

96

like rental apartment, purposeful like rental

towers. And I think it's important to acknowledge

97

that the tenant class is... It's here and it's

not just the small number of like, you know,

98

the average of 30 % or kind of like 50 % maybe.

Like depending on where you are, it is the

99

vast majority of people. I think it would be

the dream to have a lead or kind of like an

100

organized building and like an organization

of kind of like a tenant collective in every

101

building. And I think we're really hopeful.

This last year especially has been... very

102

exciting for the union. There's a lot of growth.

As Ben said, we're now over 3,000 members.

103

But also there's really an exciting part about

that growth is that it's not only growth in

104

terms of of like members joining the larger

union, but also chapters, which is beautiful

105

to see that new neighborhoods end up kind of

like trying to come together, having their

106

first chapter meetings, finding a building.

Often these kind of like new developments might

107

be rooted in a concrete building and they're

gonna specific fight against kind of like a

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landlord, an issue, foreign issue. But I think

we are also having cases where, I don't know,

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like members move across the city into a new

neighborhood or meet friends, neighbors, and

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just decide to start slowly building a chapter

and kind of like joining this fight. I don't

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know, is it a dream to have at some point somebody

in every building? Sure, I mean, I think it's

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a dream to have as many people who are actively

involved in the union as possible. think one,

113

because then we can, you know, like you said,

mobilize people for these big type of fights.

114

The union has been doing a lot of thinking as

well about our conception of moving from here

115

to liberation, whatever that looks like for

everyone. But for us, it's really laid out

116

in our basis of unity. This idea of tenant control,

community control over buildings, this idea

117

of a world without rent, a world without landlords.

And to get there, we have to imagine what

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that world would look like at least a little

bit, how decisions would be made, both on

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an individual building level, which requires

some level of tenant organization everywhere,

120

but also on a neighborhood level, where tenants

from various buildings can come together and

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discuss how they want their neighborhood to

look and change and build. That's rooted really

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in... in working class and poor people's experiences

and struggles and keeping people in their

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neighborhood and in their communities if they

want to. And so to do that, I think, you know,

124

this is where this sort of idea of having reps

in every building, of building these neighborhood

125

chapters come in. It's sort of a prefigurative

idea of what decision-making could look like

126

if it wasn't so based in, you know, the colonial

government. You know, if City Hall here...

127

wasn't the one who were calling all the shots,

but the people in their own neighborhoods collectively

128

through direct democracy were able to do this

sort of work. And so that's what the union

129

is really working towards in a long-term goal.

And we take that day by day and step by step.

130

So yeah, I can't see a problem with the idea

of having more people and more buildings that

131

are actively engaged in their local chapters.

Oh no, like even when you run a political campaign

132

and the idea is to at least get a point person,

you know, doesn't necessarily be an institution

133

behind it, but just someone, a contact that'll

let you know when something's going on, when

134

there's enough disgruntled people to kind of

get in there. And that is not unattainable

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at all. No, no, you folks can definitely do

that. And Toronto organizing is on fire right

136

now. In Montreal, there was just a conference,

a housing justice conference. folks, it's

137

growing just as a tactic, right? We've broken

away from labor being the only way that we

138

can organize ourselves. Quite rapidly, it feels

like, or at least like I am discovering how

139

the growth of it in the last year and a half.

obviously, know, folks have been around for

140

10 years, you've already laid a lot of groundwork.

I feel like Ben, when you were just talking

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there, you're kind of leading me into one of

the campaigns, moving is not an option. You

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talk about staying in the neighborhood if you

want to or need to, right? Like if moving

143

isn't an option, but you also talked about the

bureaucracy and the institutions that we're

144

up against. And quite often, you know, there

are legal avenues. We have the Landlord Tenant

145

Board. You folks have the RTB, right? Similar

thing, it's loaded against us, very difficult

146

to get victories, not impossible, but very hard

and expensive. So tenant unions, right?

147

And like, you know, not allowing, if you agree

that are a way to bypass these institutions

148

where we don't need to rely on legal victories.

Because I feel like, you know, maybe you could

149

take us through Abby's story, but part of it,

I'll spoiler. is that yeah, that there was

150

a loss at the RTB, but that certainly hasn't

stopped the campaign or you folks insisting

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that Abby be allowed to stay, right? So it wasn't

the be all end all. Do you wanna talk about

152

that campaign and what it represents for your

group? This is one of those neighborhood style

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campaigns that we were talking about. So Abby

lives in a basement suite in a home. She's

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been there for 17 years. Her landlord lives

directly above her. Abby, you know, self describes

155

as a senior with disabilities and she's on a

fixed income and her landlord over the last

156

year has slowly been, you know, sort of pushing

her about the idea of moving out and then lo

157

and behold, delivered this rent increase to

her, legal rent increase to her of over 40%.

158

I think it was 42 % or something like this.

And when Abby refused, And to clarify, this

159

is before Abby was involved with the union.

Her refusal wasn't even a full blown, you know,

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I'm not paying this. I'll pay the maximum allowed,

which is like 3 % or something like this. She

161

refused and agreed still to a 20 % rent increase

with the landlord, which she regrets, but she

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felt really pressured. She didn't know what

to do. She thought she would lose her home.

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And this is a common experience amongst a lot

of tenants, but this didn't satisfy the landlord.

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you know, this landlord was furious with her.

She remained upset with her. From that moment

165

on, the relationship was completely fractured.

And lo and behold, a couple of months later,

166

received an eviction notice for landlord use,

which in BC is quickly rising. And I think

167

at this point, it's certainly the most rising

cause of tenant evictions after there's been

168

some regulations of renovation evictions or

rent evictions, as we call them. You know,

169

Abby receives this clearly bogus eviction order.

When they get to the RTB, which is like our

170

quasi court for tenants, the landlord story

changes. It's now about how she has a foot

171

injury and she needs to live on the basement

floor, the ground floor. Meanwhile, the same

172

landlord goes dancing for multiple hours twice

a week and is also quite active, know, walking,

173

walks her dog every single day, even though

there's other people in the house that could

174

do this for her. So she lives an active lifestyle,

you know. Whatever, maybe there is an injury,

175

who knows, but it's clearly not enough to justify

evicting someone who's been living in their

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neighborhood, deeply tied to her neighborhood

for almost two decades. And who would essentially

177

be forced maybe out of their neighborhood or

even face homelessness, right, with that fixed

178

income and the way that rents have risen. Totally.

the board, right? Like that's the reality.

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It's not just you have to find a new place

to live. Sometimes it means there is almost

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no option left for. for folks like Abby? 100%.

I mean, Abby says it quite often that she says

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that moving would quite literally kill her.

And it's real, know? Like, Abby suffers from

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a lot of different disabilities that cause chronic

pain, very serious chronic pain for her. And

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yeah, you know, there's community that can help

her to a degree, but even just packing up her

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stuff, which is a deeply personal experience.

This has been really damaging to her and being

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able to not only physically move, but find new

services. She has a lot of local services that

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she relies on, her RMT. That's her community.

We have every right to stay in our communities.

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When I first saw that campaign, I didn't actually

realize it was for an individual. It really

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isn't just for Abby that that campaign is for.

But just that phrasing, housing, that moving

189

is not an option, I think would resonate with

so many people, describes the situation and

190

that power struggle and the not understanding

what your rights are. Like some people would

191

have just walked away when the landlord said,

you got to be out of here, you should be out

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of here because they can't deal with that toxic

situation that sometimes arises out of that

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or the abuse. of landlords after that, because

that's really what it is, right? They almost

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torment you into leaving. And people anticipate

that. And so they're just like, oh, you know,

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I'll just get out of here. It's not a fight.

But knowing there's a union around, maybe,

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you you're not a part of, but you know it's

a thing. You know you've seen people fighting

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back against landlords because that's the biggest

mental barrier I think some people have. These

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are, you know, if you're to be evicted, you're

to be evicted. You know, like that's it. It's

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a done deal. Even if you know about the RTB,

you know, some people might not, but you don't,

200

and you know how bad it is. But, you know,

it's just a game changer, I think, having

201

tenant unions, especially one as strong as

yours. But we've seen folks really get fired

202

up simply from galvanizing around a landlord

trying to enter a unit without proper notice.

203

You know, it seems like a small thing. It's

a thing. Tenants have to deal with all the

204

time and we just usually complain to each other

a little bit like that fucker, you know, I

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didn't even know they were coming in and my

cat is loose and you know, like all kinds of

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things just inconveniences, but it stems from

that power imbalance. And so instead of just

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approaching the unit bickering with the landlord,

there's like six or seven people standing there

208

reminding them, we know our rights, we will

defend each other. And like that kind of. sits

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with landlords as much as it sits with tenants,

which is nice to see them squirm like that.

210

Do you have any other campaigns that you think

really personify the work that you do or you

211

want to highlight for folks? As mentioned earlier,

talk about the West End. 80 percent. Yeah.

212

In the future, be a site of a lot of fights,

especially very particular type of fight.

213

We are slowly building towards more and more

cases where multiple buildings, multiple tenant

214

collectives come together to fight. single landlord,

their common landlord. And especially in the

215

West End, think we have, you might've also

seen it on the website. It has been one of

216

the major campaigns now for almost a year.

The Park Beach tenants, Park Beach tenants

217

collective fighting their quite awful landlord,

Plan A, real estate services. Plan A basically.

218

Plan A is, might be one of the worst landlords

ever that we're dealing with. Plan A itself

219

is... Not a corporate landlord, exactly. It's

not kind of like the, not a REIT, it's not

220

kind of like one of those big organizations

that just kind of like, often our experience,

221

we see that these, biggest corporate landlords

kind of try to play by the books. We were just

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truly shocked by Plan A's very shocking tactics

that genuinely have been, I think, taking

223

not only the tenants but... think some of the

organizers by surprise about how outrightly

224

evil and harmful and direct these of like threatening

tactics, the harassment, all the different

225

ways of trying to basically suppress any kind

of like, not only collective efforts once we've

226

started to fight back, but also at an individual

level of kind of like genuinely not attempting

227

to hide intentions here, praying for the most

vulnerable. To describe the tactic briefly,

228

it's plan A will buy up. very particular type

of apartment building. Typically two to three

229

floors, maybe four. Often they will basically

try to very quickly get through the long standing

230

tenants, get rid of them. And then obviously

kind of like try to slowly also turn those

231

units into, to kind of renovate them, break

them up into smaller units, increase the number

232

of beds, increase the number of rooms. They

definitely run a lot of illegal Airbnb's.

233

Like in one case there that we found a building

where We met someone who was staying at one

234

of the units for a month and they were being

charged $10,000 for the single month's as an

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Airbnb stay, which is illegal for the short-term

rentals, but the city doesn't care. There's

236

no real enforcement by any government. On top

of that, I mean, like, makes it very clear

237

why he would want to evict people. You move

from making maybe $1,100, $1,200 on these long-term

238

tenants to $10,000 overnight. a month. Or in

other cases, he would then continue to lease

239

places out to a lot of times new arrivals

in the city. that be international students,

240

maybe workers, but again, preying on people

who might not be familiar with their rights,

241

who might not have established communities,

who might not have friends or even family

242

to just support them. It's truly shocking at

how also efficient and how well it works because

243

the city does not care about it. The city has

known about Plan A's behavior for 10 years.

244

We've had MLAs supporting previous prior

buildings at rallies and kind of like stepping

245

up and declaring their support. But what we

effectively see is that Plan A has been allowed

246

to continue what they've been doing for the

last 10 years while basically the city politicians

247

are watching on. I hear you talking about some

support you got from MLAs. but I can't help

248

but I'm gonna go back to your basis of unity.

We've kind of, we dabble in it. We're gonna

249

dabble in it because it's got, know, trying

to get an idea of your ideology going through

250

your website. And again, another big smile when

you reject a lot of things. A lot of things

251

are worded like that. Even on the front page,

you know, we reject. speculative market or

252

housing that should be a commodity. I mean,

you've said all that, but it also says very

253

explicitly, we reject electoral politics. As

do I. I mean, I try to humor it every now and

254

again because there are comrades that want to

take that route and let them be. However, I

255

will not spend my energy there. And I think

that's exactly how you folks, oh no, I have

256

the whole quote. We reject electoral politics.

Our power is wasted when we direct it towards

257

reformist compromises with capital and real

estate power, which is basically your city

258

council, right? Power is never conceded from

above, only seized from below. I love your

259

basis of unity. I can understand, however, how

it's hard to onboard people with these. Some

260

of them seem unachievable and, you know, really

far left. I mean, where we're at, which is

261

fine, that... The language isn't always the

best, but from people just entering because

262

they hate their landlord, not because they want

a revolution. They're like, whoa, I don't

263

know if I'm there yet. We'll get there. But

I love how you folks have basically structured

264

yourself around taking the steps to get there.

You're not going for free housing at the moment,

265

even though that is your number one point under

basis of unity. Housing should be free. Do

266

want to talk about the steps that you are taking

to get people there or to get us collectively

267

there to the idea that housing shouldn't be

a commodity? support that Sor is referring

268

to from provincial MLAs is from previous fights

that the VT was not involved in with this landlord.

269

So highlighting how Plan A has been a menace

in the city for a very long time and that before

270

the union even existed, you know these these

provincial legislators were coming to tenants

271

who had organically organized autonomously to

fight their landlords and offered support but

272

with you know no real change they weren't able

to save those tenants those tenants themselves

273

ended up all being evicted that that whole building

is now also expensive airbnbs that both the

274

province and the city are totally aware of and

extremely ugly and extremely ugly they look

275

they look like shit Um, which yeah, who would

have guessed when you put the design of a city

276

in the hands of some loser billionaire guys

that they would make it look like shit. The

277

building equivalent of the cyber truck. Yeah,

exactly. It's actually a good comparison. Yeah,

278

Nazi building. So the, the union's attitude

towards politicians and their ideas of change

279

or bringing people along with this sort of stuff.

It's a big question. Yeah. I mean, the union

280

went through a very long period of exploring

these ideas ourselves that got us to this point,

281

you know, when When the union was first starting

off, spent a lot of time doing electoral work.

282

There was a lot more centralized control in

the union, would say. And those who did sort

283

of have the reins really focused the union's

efforts these ways. But we had almost nothing

284

to show for it, know, by the end of it all.

There's an article on our website, I think

285

it's called, What Did Four Years at City Hall

Get Us? You know, we mobilized a ton of people

286

to come out constantly to win small legislative

reforms. And the result was one, either they

287

were watered down by the policymakers who were

all themselves funded by developers beyond

288

recognition, or two, they were passed. And then

the bureaucrats, this massive bureaucracy

289

inside of the colonial state, which is all trained

themselves by developer-funded industries

290

and institutions and schools that are all paid

for by Landlord BC or I can't remember the

291

development. It doesn't matter. There's a development

is developers institution that also funds the

292

schools. They like completely refused to implement

the reforms. They would say, oh, we're studying

293

them. We're studying them. We're studying them.

And they would never come back. Like truly

294

never. You mean things that were passed by council.

Yeah. Oh, that. How do you go back and like

295

that is so rough to have like those victories,

right? And then we try to like take moment

296

and celebrate our victories and then only to

just reassess a few months later to see. Maybe

297

they weren't after all I mean you gotta find

little bits to celebrate but that's that's

298

rough to hear that. There's that level of gatekeeping

beyond winning you know the bylaw. And the

299

reinforcement issue you mentioned like that's

common in a lot of cities where they get renovation

300

victories it might not look exactly like their

proposed renovation bylaws but they get one

301

but then no room in the budget at all for increased.

enforcement when enforcement was already an

302

issue for like small, not small landlord issues,

right? Like they're not already behind in responding

303

to tenant complaints, but then they add new

laws, but don't add any new bylaw officers

304

or training. It's just, it's on paper only.

Yeah, a hundred percent. mean, I would go

305

as far as to call it legalized and institutionalized

corruption, right? Like people's ideologies

306

from the moment that they're trained before

they even step into the office is corroded.

307

and built around ideas of free markets and

capital over the lives of human beings, this

308

constant prioritization of property and profits

over people. And so there's sort of an institutional

309

refusal to implement any of this stuff because

from a baseline, they believe it's all bad.

310

They can only do bad. And you're right, like

not having the space to celebrate hurt the

311

union. We spent over a year, four years doing

this sort of stuff. And the result was we

312

shrunk. We mobilized at each time hundreds

of people to come out to City Hall and total

313

probably thousands of people to come out and

speak at City Hall motions. got things passed,

314

but I mean the reality on the ground is things

are still bad. You know, they're worse than

315

they've ever been. We maybe have like a municipally

mandated buyout system, which just helps facilitate

316

displacement rather than stop it. But you know,

I think we all had to take a second and really

317

reevaluate what we were doing. And that sort

of led to the creation of the basis of unity,

318

which is largely based on our experience. Like

reading that document, it's mostly a history

319

of the union's struggles. And so our approach

now to electoral politics is, I mean, I think

320

still evolving and complicated. We try to promote

a diversity of tactics within the union, but

321

we have hard lines. I think one of them is

that we don't do lobbying work. and we don't

322

do policy advocacy, but within the scope of

a actual campaign that is focused on direct

323

action, if the tenants want to do this rather

than the union at large voting to do this,

324

we treat this as an opportunity for people

to learn. Tenants have the autonomy and the

325

ability to self-govern the types of actions

that they learn. We will inform them about

326

our experience and what we believe is likely

to happen. But if tenants want to do it, we're

327

not going to totally stop them. As long as they're

not, you know, signing the union's name onto

328

some sort of support for a candidate or something

like this, which is also a big no-no. We don't

329

support parties and we don't support candidates.

This is all in the process of people learning.

330

I think what we've realized is that it's important

not to lie to people and to set people's expectations

331

correctly so that when they do go to the MLA's

office, like has happened in Park Beach, the

332

campaign of SORA was referring to, and the MLA

basically tells them to be thankful for the

333

work that they've already done and to piss off.

they feel like they know what they can do next.

334

Well, this person doesn't care about us. We're

not going to give our power away to them. What's

335

our next move? How do we keep confronting the

landlord? I think I would like to add to that

336

as a newer member of the union, as a newer organizer,

this is really interesting because I think

337

that is one of the takeaways for me has been

the importance of education and also the context

338

here. Internally, for newer organizers, who

might not have been around for those initial

339

years, through that painful learning curve

there. We have a way to hopefully learn without

340

going through all the same pain. But sometimes

it is hard because as Ben said, it's a colonial

341

state that is built on the idea of ownership

of corporations and extraction of wealth

342

from the working class. And that means that

each one of us is also kind of like, I am

343

entering this based with the same ideas of,

shouldn't politicians help? Shouldn't city

344

council care about this? And it's really interesting,

I think, as an organizer, as a new member,

345

as an active member in the union to go through

this learning experience. But it's also really

346

helpful because it is also what happens in,

I think, each new struggle with the tenants.

347

And this fine line of kind of like people,

like it isn't, we as a union are kind of like

348

firmly on the back, kind of like autonomy is

important to the union. And that means even,

349

know, tenants can make the choice to go through

painful learning experiences. That happens

350

on so many levels, you know, it's just like

even thinking of a political revolution, like

351

you don't want to have to get to the point where

it's so bad that people realize there's no

352

other choice. Like, couldn't we just get where

we need to be politically without getting

353

into the dire circumstances that people usually

have to live under in order to, feel oppression,

354

know where it's coming from and move together

on it. Like if we could just fast forward through

355

a few steps. But you know, when you're trying

to, I mean, not trying to, but naturally politicizing

356

people. Yeah, there has to be sometimes baby

steps or it's like a canon event. I went in

357

and out of the NDP, you know, in the same way

as you folks learned your lesson. I probably

358

took the same amount of time learning my lesson.

And I feel like I can warn people away as best

359

I can or explain exactly how it works. So if

you want to go in, you're at least a little

360

bit more well equipped to do it. And I won't

say I told you so. I will still be here to

361

hug you when you come out and we will move

forward at that point together. yeah, some

362

people just need to take those steps. They have

to experience those canon events to be radicalized

363

to use their language, right? And yeah, so that's

when support systems are important or having

364

a veteran there going, okay, you know, I will

also answer a few of your questions to help

365

you, but you know, with this warning that please

don't waste too much energy there, you know,

366

and brace yourself. A hundred percent. We've

had this sort of experience of trying to get

367

The sort of, I guess, struggle of trying to

figure out how people learn is core to, I think,

368

the experience of the union. And we've been,

you know, I think going through multiple rounds

369

of trying to figure this out. for me, I think

what I've learned most is that, you know, for

370

better or for worse, greatest teacher is struggle.

People learn in campaigns, whether it's their

371

own building that's going through a fight or

it's, you know, a new organizer from another

372

building who is, you know, learning. by supporting

these tenants who are going through their own

373

building site. The system just lays itself bare,

you know? The contradictions become extremely

374

clear. An important check on the union to make

sure that we don't go this way too much of

375

every single time new members join the union,

they're pulling us back towards trying to

376

do electoral work or something like this, is

we are grounding the ability to do this type

377

of... of work to maybe go have a conversation

with a politician in building struggles. It

378

has to be out of an organizing campaign. It

can't just be like a group of members who are

379

completely detached from the struggle and the

work on the ground, the actual organizing,

380

who just go out and say, we're going to now

spend all of our time mobilizing as many people

381

across the city to write letters asking for

a minor tweak to a policy. I think helps

382

keep the union focused on direct action and

on a revolutionary trajectory. But we still

383

have a lot of work to do on this. Like it's

not working perfectly. You know, there is struggle

384

within the union. And I think one thing that

we learned this year, every year we do like

385

a visioning where everyone from across the union

comes together to what we call name the moment,

386

something like a tradition we got from Los Angeles

Tenants Union, and then talk about how we want

387

to move forward in the moment that we're in.

And something that I think was named was that

388

we need to have more orientation across the

union. When people come in, there needs to

389

be something like a tank, the Oakland tenants

union. have cohorts when they join, they do

390

activities together. They get to know each other.

People build a sense of community and connection

391

from the get-go. And they're also oriented a

little bit towards the union's ideology. Um,

392

how we view the world, the kinds of work we

do, the kinds of work we don't. All that to

393

say that it also can change. are democratic

mechanisms. The union is based in direct democracy.

394

If people want to change the way we do stuff,

you can do that at a general members meeting.

395

You know, there needs to be some level, some

additional level of education that's happening,

396

I think from the get go that everyone has identified

as a need. Oh my God, that would fucking horrify

397

me if there were a group of tenants who decided

they would not not only spend their energy

398

on electoral politics in this moment. but in

organizing around one of your AGMs to make

399

you also spend your energy. I think like I

would like to talk to those people if there's

400

anybody considering those moves. Just like a

few minutes, really kindly, like just please

401

no. So like that's my worst case imaginable,

you know? You want to go on the inside political

402

parties and reshape them, I'm like go have at

it, but. Don't fucking go to a revolutionary

403

type organization and try to water them down.

mean, we got, we got words then, you know,

404

just maybe share this episode with them. Certainly.

think what we found more is it's less people

405

in buildings that are doing that and more like

individual, more liberal minded activists who

406

will join the union and then try to pull it

into a new direction. The buildings I think

407

learn from their own experiences more than.

these sort of ideologues who come in with an

408

idea of how change happens. I think this is

really important because this truly isn't

409

just about ideology. This truly isn't just about

the revolution. It's just the real experience

410

that we help more tenants, we focus on direct

action and do not talk to politicians. It's

411

just pure pragmatics. That's where you get

a lot of burnout. Like you talked about shrinking

412

and if you don't have victories, obviously

that's one thing. But people can even go stretch

413

stretches without victories and still feel

like they're building towards something. But

414

those campaigns are just so uninspiring. You

you're begging. It goes back to that one point

415

in the basis of unity and, you know, we talk

about it on blueprints is that, you know, you're

416

seizing power from below. You're not begging

for scraps. You know, you're not asking, pleading

417

this presumption that people who are city councillors

or MLAs or MPs don't know, don't know that

418

there's a housing crisis. They don't know that,

you know, folks are being evicted without

419

any sort of resolution. And they know, they

know that the planet is burning. They know

420

all these issues. It's even more, right? I think

maybe like a quick tie into a new campaign

421

that we are currently starting. It's also very

interesting. we are now currently starting

422

to, hopefully going to be launching a UBC chapter.

So the University, the Endowment Lands, a

423

lot of people are not aware but UBC lives in

this quite awful, shocking space where the

424

little protection that some of the tenants in

BC are enjoying do not exist on UBC because

425

on Endowment Lands several years ago, the

think the University Neighborhood Association

426

in a vote decided to not abide by the RTA and

just roll out their own framework. So housing,

427

all the student housing, and it's not only

student housing, is basically not regulated.

428

What? And currently a group of students, families,

staff, basically tenants on campus are getting

429

together and starting to fight back because

UBC has been, I think the numbers are actually

430

Two years ago, 7%, last year, 5%, and this year,

5 % again. Rent increases way above the provincial

431

guidelines, which is insane. There's just an

entity that is basically not only providing

432

the housing to these people on campus, but they're

often also their employers. They have control

433

over the scholarships, which means they have

control over the immigration status. I've been

434

basically talking about it as UBC is a feudal

lord. on the endowment lens. You don't even

435

have politicians to give your power away to

because UBC is also essentially the government

436

over there. They make the choices. So the

politicians, you can cower before them and

437

still UBC is the one who decides how much your

rent increases, how much time they're going

438

to give you on your eviction notice. They don't

abide by any of the law. so, yeah, I'm realizing

439

it was when you said kind of like that they

know city council, these politicians, it's

440

beyond that, right? UBC is a very clear example

of like not only are they aware of what's going

441

on, they're the people who put it in place.

I think it's very important to kind of like

442

be openly, we need to name the enemy. It's like

there are people in power who put the current

443

system in place, who designed it the way it

is, or keeping it the way it is. I agree with

444

you, it is absurd to then go there and pledge

and kind of like ask for help when actually,

445

yeah, these people put it, designed it that

way. Like we are in this place because of that.

446

Yeah, that's why I use the quotations when I

say housing crisis, not because I don't believe

447

we have a problem, but it's just designed that

way. And so even, yeah, your decision to not

448

really involve yourself in policy discussions,

like even the idea of like, okay, what could

449

we convince or make part of the next campaign?

You know, I mean, political campaign or electoral,

450

get it on as a campaign issue, voting issue.

And it's just like that, are just, you you

451

spend a lot of energy there and it's like tiny

little band-aids. Or like you said earlier,

452

like you'll have a great idea, great policy

item that might actually have some impact,

453

but it doesn't end up that way. You know, on

the, the, when it gets spit out the other end,

454

whatever institution it goes through it and

they're all landlords. And, know, UBC being

455

the feudal example, that is a great comparison.

A lot of your counselors are landlords or

456

like you mentioned earlier, completely funded

by developers. And then the city itself, like

457

in Ontario, I'm not sure if it's the same where

you folks are, like our municipalities can't

458

run a deficit. Like you have to balance your

budget. And the way that they're structured

459

is they're financially dependent on developer

fees and the money that comes in from letting

460

them develop any which way they want to. Right.

And they the threats are they'll just stop

461

building and they do that. So there's like so

many layers. So yeah, I was kind of being generous

462

when I was like, oh, they know, and they just

don't do the right thing. Like they are actively

463

contributing to the situation and then sitting

with people face to face, like groups of 10

464

and just like lying to them and making promises

they probably never intend to keep. And yeah,

465

you don't want to watch comrades go through

that over and over again. I feel you there,

466

man. When you say like, we can't keep, we'll

give you space to do that, but please, you

467

know, let's, yeah, I feel that. completely,

but UBC students are so vulnerable when it

468

comes to housing to think they don't have regulations

there. Can you help me understand that a little

469

bit more? I know we were supposed to do that

briefly, but I'm kind of confused. Who voted

470

to not regulate the housing, the landlords?

I think as far as I understand, it's called

471

the UNA. It's the University Neighborhood Association.

This is another learning experience, I think,

472

for the union. The union has been interested

in organizing campuses for a while. But there's

473

inherent challenges because also the way Vancouver

is designed with, we have UBC, SFU, the two

474

bigger universities at the two far ends. I think

it's basically 40 kilometers between the two

475

campuses. And both of them are in places that

are really remote. And it's quite a challenge

476

for a union that is so kind of like rooted

in neighborhood organizing, in place-based

477

organizing to then try to talk to students who

might be commuters. who are living in precarious

478

situations. they're in housing and residence,

they might actually be intending to leave after

479

the first year. Yeah, they're not really invested

in that as like a community sometimes, right?

480

And we are now increasingly facing the situation

that the issues are just so rampant that we

481

need to do something about it. The tenants

are coming together to do something about this

482

and we are slowly learning. So your question

is just inherently tied into this kind of

483

like beast of UBC governance and its history.

which is obviously also tied into the colonial

484

system in a very deep, deep, and kind of like

defining way. And the UNA is I think basically

485

the land owners association. The UNA is the

neighborhood association that is made up of

486

those people who bought. Yeah, the landlords,

right? Landlords and they basically vote. They

487

get to vote. on the kind of public facilities

they built because these places are also just

488

communities. Families live there, UBC staff,

they're students. There's real life and community

489

going on, but the people making the decisions

are the landlords. And the UNA is extremely

490

powerful and to my understanding, I think it

was 20 years ago, so not quite recently, they

491

had a major vote and apparently had the power

to decide not to abide by provincial tenancy

492

law. It must be part of a provincial act or

something that was granted, like some autonomy

493

that was granted to them. But I think, you know,

we're learning about this now as we're dealing.

494

Some fucking private members bill that nobody

really paid attention to maybe at one point,

495

you know, and it didn't even make sense. Like,

what? And then you understand the implications

496

of it after the gobbledygook gets filtered through

to something in real life. And you're like,

497

shit. What? You know, like how did that get

through city council? But then again, you know,

498

we already answered how that got through city

council, right? Or provincial legislature.

499

Well, same thing. You're probably right. Yeah.

Yeah. Also just to kind of like throw out a

500

number, UBC's development arm, I think it's

just the development arm, has an endowment

501

of $2 billion. UBC is also a massive developer.

That's so ugly. The last episode we aired was

502

just about how university administrators colluded

with the province in Alberta mostly, but also

503

all over the place to violently evict student

encampments. So I already had a bone to pick

504

with university administrators, but this, I

wonder how many universities have similar situations

505

like that. Maybe not. exactly having no regulations,

but just student housing. The issues inherent

506

with that, it's almost similar to trying to

organize precarious workers or commuting workers.

507

Like there's such high turnover as well, right?

Like every four, you know, you don't even have

508

the one tenant to fight with you all that long

because they do move on for the most part.

509

But what a shit situation. Like who's going

to take the onus on to fix that? And the answer

510

is You know, you will, you know, like a tenants

union that realizes perhaps the value in fighting

511

for neighborhoods that they don't live in because

there's difficulties in organizing that neighborhood,

512

right? Like if folks can lend a hand on that

UBC campaign, lend some resources and people

513

power and expertise, you know, but yeah, I can

understand why that is a bit of a hurdle,

514

albeit an important one to get over. does seem

like there is a real appetite amongst a lot

515

of these people to to do something. There was

already a campaign. think part of the reason

516

why a lot of people are coming to the Union

now to try and fight this is that ASURA was

517

involved in a campaign where the Union was supporting,

along with some migrant justice groups. We

518

got together to support an Indigenous mother

who UBC was trying to evict in her family.

519

And we won. And I think a lot of people saw

that moment as a sort of crack in the shell

520

of UBC's totality. the idea that they are able

to choose everything that happens on campus

521

and we have no power at all because they're

so big, they're so futile in their sort of

522

setup. But you know, with just a campaign put

together, like a letter writing campaign, essentially

523

what we call an emails app. Was it an emails

app or a phones app? It was both. It was an

524

emails app, a phones app, but also honestly

a massive shout out here to MSU, which is Migrant

525

Students United. Some amazing organizers there

took over and takeaways are the same ones over

526

and over again. What secures us the wins is

direct action. Yeah, so these MSU folks helped

527

the tenant and marched into UBC housing's office

and demanded to talk to the president to the

528

person in charge and Long story short that

it got us the win. So the tenant is still there

529

So, you know this kind of stuff it works. It

really really works It's what we see over and

530

over whether we're fighting for better conditions

inside of buildings to stop evictions to stop

531

demolitions We get real wins when tenants stick

together and they act directly against the

532

landlord. Victories are contagious. you know,

whatever bits of that you can pull out and

533

celebrate and learn from, mean, absolute value

for more than just the people that were directly

534

involved. Before we wrap up, though, I did

and I don't see it in my notes, but I do remember

535

reading it and wanting to give you folks credit

for including a very broad definition of what

536

a tenant is. I believe it's defined by anybody

who doesn't have control over their housing.

537

And obviously that includes folks who have

no housing at all or very precarious housing.

538

And I think it's important that you make that

distinction obviously and include those fights

539

in your fights. But it's, it brings up the

kind of that same troubling question with

540

calling ourselves the working class and then

it just by vocabulary excluding people who

541

don't work. So it's important when we talk about

tenants to understand it more broadly than

542

just the people who are paying rent, you know,

on a consistent basis. that it is more than

543

that, but as long as you do treat it that way.

Because when we talk about the working class,

544

we say, oh, it includes everybody, right? It

includes children, people who can't work, disabled

545

folks, but sometimes we don't actually include

them in our fights and demands. And so then

546

the working class actually starts to become

looking like actually it just means the working

547

class. So are you able to do meaningful organizing

towards maybe campaigns that are focused on

548

unhoused community members? This is a good question.

mean, to maybe as a first bit of homage, know,

549

this sort of understanding of the tenant class

as being anyone who doesn't have control over

550

their housing, I think comes both from, you

know, learnings from Indigenous elders inside

551

of the movement, as well as our comrades down

south in the Los Angeles Tenants Union who

552

I brought up. previously already, you know,

they've really been impactful on our development.

553

Some of their members like Don't, were up here

for our founding convention as well and helped

554

us get set up. So really this cross border

solidarity was built in from the beginning

555

and they brought up these sort of conceptions

of the tenant class needing to go beyond just

556

people who are in that sort of traditional

understanding of our rent relationship. to

557

those who are, let's say, being evicted from

their tents on provincial parkland. In these

558

situations, there's no distinction between a

private landlord and the state who happens

559

to be the landlord and is governing people's

individual lives on a day-to-day basis. The

560

union has been involved in struggles to stop,

know, decantments and things like this. part

561

of a number of different coalitions. with

other community groups as well. There's one

562

coalition called Stop the Sweeps that the union

was a founding coalition partner in. That

563

coalition has sort of gone on to become its

own organization in some ways, but a lot of

564

the core members came from the VTU and still

identify as members of the union as well.

565

but have more autonomy than just being subject

to its coalition partners desires, which we

566

actually really prefer. And I think during

a number of different fights, union members

567

are the ones on the ground often trying to

support people in their fight against the

568

cops, the enforcement arm of these provincial

landlords essentially. taking the opportunities

569

also to try and educate the membership about

how our fights are tied together. There actually

570

is no distinction. I mean, there's the clear

material distinction of whether or not you

571

are housed or not, but the class is the same.

Every tenant that we organize in a building

572

is one rent check away from being on the street,

but the enemy remains the same. It's still,

573

in the larger sense, the system of private

property in the capitalist mode of production.

574

I think in the union, part of the way that

we've grown to understand also how we expand

575

these definitions of who we're organizing the

working class or some other group is by

576

trying to frame the work we do around the type

of labor that we're organizing. In the case

577

of labor unions, they're often organizing productive

labor. In the case of tenant unions, our task

578

is to organize reproductive labor. the people

who are keeping the home and the community

579

functioning. And this includes both housed

and unhoused members of the community who do

580

work every single day to make sure that the

streets are clean, to make sure that people

581

are fed and the kids are taken care of. People

who are typically excluded for systemic reasons

582

from the labor movement, for example. Migrant

workers who maybe don't have status or women

583

who are raising the children in the home whose

labor is invaluable whatsoever. or unhoused

584

people, again, who are doing street cleaning

programs, like the work that happens at Van

585

Do, the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users,

who are part of coalition work that we do also

586

towards the ends of, yeah, housing everyone

and also drug user liberation. I would say

587

that the biggest fights that we've been involved

in or that members have been involved in,

588

but I would like to give the total credit

to Stop the Sweeps, the group that we're a

589

part of. is most recently the decantment fight

for the Hastings tent city, which happened

590

a couple of years ago. But I think people learned

a lot through that experience, which ultimately,

591

unfortunately, resulted in a loss where the

city came down with like an unbelievable amount

592

of police force in order to sweep people off

the street. But it was an extremely pivotal

593

and radicalizing moment for a lot of people

in the city who sort of saw a state power laid

594

bare, the power of private property really laid

bare. And I think both of our organizations,

595

Stop the Sweeps and the VTU have only grown

since those moments and want to keep fighting

596

for liberation for all of us. Because if it's

not all of us, it's none of us. A lot of our

597

episodes have these great examples of authorities

really clenching their fists and cracking

598

down and it only... seems to mobilize folks.

mean, there blows. It's not to minimize those

599

losses. like, those are real material losses

for people too. But it does just galvanize

600

people a lot more than I think they anticipate.

And they end up actually being the root causes

601

for a lot of folks' work out. Because Toronto

experienced a very similar moment. And I feel

602

like that was like two or three years ago. a

particularly violent encampment eviction that,

603

you know, I'm not sure anybody has tried to

defend one in that same way since because

604

it was so traumatizing and unsuccessful in that

way. But surely I've seen a spike and we've

605

had, we have Voices for the Unhoused here

in Toronto, which is a type of union for unhoused

606

people or people within the shelter system.

Yeah, hearing how they reshaped or grew from

607

what was meant to be a devastating blow, right?

It was designed to, because sometimes they're

608

not even about clearing the park, right? It's

about sending a message to the entire community

609

as well. Those sweeps. Totally. Yeah. I mean,

we've seen, we've seen now, uh, stop the sweeps,

610

organizations crop up across all of BC. Previously

it was just in Vancouver and since then, members

611

from South Pacific have been going to Kelowna,

Nanaimo, to all these different places to work

612

with people who are establishing mutual aid

networks, support networks, organizing networks

613

in order to defend these tense cities. So it

has led to growth. And like you said, these

614

moments of increased repression are dialectical.

They also produce increased resistance. And

615

I think that's what makes this time that we're

all in so exciting. It's scary. You know,

616

we're facing real possible fascist forces.

And at the same time, a lot of people are sort

617

of waking up to the reality and getting involved

in the struggle. And the more of us that are

618

closer together, the more tenants and house

people see their struggles as one, the better

619

chance we have at beating the next tent city

eviction, the better chance we have at winning

620

the next rent strike or holding down the next

squad. These are the ways is when we work

621

together and there's more of us in this space.

Asura, do you have any kind of parting words

622

you want to leave the audience with? Yes, just

very similarly. I'm really excited to hear

623

that, you even you saying that you kind of

like are feeling somewhat of a moment for

624

tenant organizing. It's kind of nice to hear

that also this, I think I'm relatively new,

625

so I feel kind of like not sure about the larger

context, but I basically agree. think what

626

is the main thing for me is like it is giving

me personally a lot of hope. And I think that

627

is. It's a very beautiful, important thing

to have something to hold onto that also provides

628

hope in a very real way. I'm not going to try

to sit here and just be kind of like, we're

629

just talking about, you know, a vision, an idea.

No, this is like a real kind of like, this

630

work is meant to be kind of like leading us

to a different place to change. That's why

631

I really am excited about also some of these

conversations with you. conversations with

632

our comrades. I think this was set up initially

through a conversation with, I think, the

633

folks in Ottawa that you had. And seeing these

kind of collaborations that, you know, it's

634

like in the neighborhood, in the city, we are

talking across province, we're talking across

635

Canada, we're crossing borders. And it's beautiful.

It absolutely is beautiful. I talk a lot to

636

organizers, activists, we talk about a lot of

issues, but I, the The feeling I get from leaving

637

tenant union discussions and hearing about

the growth and victories and even hearing about

638

the barriers, right? Cause that's learning being

done. I get like, I feel like a buzz because

639

like, know, the whole purpose of what I do is

right, is to give people hope in that there's

640

other actions out there other than the ballot

box, right? That your fate is not in the hand

641

of politicians, it's in your hands, right? And

I think tenant organizing is one of those spaces

642

and that they're growing in such a time that

they won't mimic colonial institutions. We

643

know better than that now, right? Where labor

unions do, our political parties do for the

644

most part, right? But these are new and they're

growing in such ways that really do give us

645

examples of what it might look like after we're

done all of this, right? And it gives us an

646

idea of. you know, even if we're a voting bloc,

you know, if you can just try to imagine, let's

647

say you're not at revolution yet, all right?

But could you imagine 80 % of people in a neighborhood,

648

the power, like let's say it does rest on the

ballot box for you, like just imagine harnessing

649

that level of power, right? And yes, it's not

just a dream. You are like, it's a dream to

650

be in every building. Like you guys are really

living that work, right? Well, you'll get there.

651

And I think very shortly, because as things

get worse, people are going to start to look,

652

for solutions that mean something and the right

is not offering that. And that kind of like

653

angry outlet and is not going to give them

victories or make them feel good in the same

654

way that connecting with their community members,

you block by block, door by door, whatnot,

655

the way that that feels, right? You naturally

come together like that, then you naturally

656

feed into these kinds of ideas. It just kind

of, it happens, right? Especially if you...

657

hold on to one another and support one another

and it's not like this desperate grasping at

658

one another. It's stronger than that. So like

I totally appreciate the work that you folks

659

are doing. That's hard work and spending time

in the studio explaining it to us all. I really

660

appreciate it because my guess is most people

listening right now are tenants and not every

661

one of them is in a tenant union yet, right?

But they'll get there. They'll get there.

662

So thank you very much, Ben and Asura. And

shout out to your entire tenant union. I would

663

love to hear more about the migrant students

union too. So maybe you folks can like pass

664

it. This is how I get my interviews, right?

Like you guys start bragging about all these

665

great people you work with. And then it's like,

I got to talk to them too. If they've got lessons,

666

we need to know what they are. Right. So, you

know, for folks listening. you will find ways

667

to contact these folks and learn more about

them in the show notes, including their, I

668

mean, we didn't give it much justice. Their

basis of unity is really a good read. Honestly,

669

it sounds like a boring document, like when

you're like, Oh, we'll learn about their structure

670

and stuff like that. But I was, I was getting

a little bit giddy ready. You know, maybe that

671

makes me a commie nerd. I don't know, but it

was fun and it was fun discussing it all with

672

you. Thank you very much folks. Thank you, Jessa.

Thank you so much for having us. That is a

673

wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption.

Thank you for joining us. Please share our

674

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675

come from the progressive community, so does

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676

know what or who we should be amplifying. So

until next time, keep disrupting.